The Search for John Cotter, 1873
As with most Churches and Parishes in Ireland, there are constant requests
for Baptismal, Marriage and other Certificates for a variety of reasons and
these are provided as part of the day-to-day activities of Parish Sacristans
and Secretaries.
And what may seem to be a rather mundane duty becomes a delight when
there is a request for a search with regard to a person from the distant past.
St. Patrick’s Church on the Lower Glanmire Road, Cork, gets it’s fair share
of requests and tries to help those who require this information, particularly
members of the Irish diaspora who cannot visit to view the Records directly.
In most cases, when the information is reasonably accurate, certificates can
be provided. If the information contains an address, and it is found that an
old ‘homestead’ still exists, a photograph will be taken and forwarded to the
person who seeks the information, thus giving this person a greater
connection with the past.
An interesting case arose recently which gave us, at St. Patrick’s, an
opportunity to demonstrate our determination to please, and is as follows;
Sheila, from a large North American city, had been for years, trying to find
details of her paternal Grandfather through the usual ‘Roots’ type websites,
before hopping on to www.stpatrickscork.com and in an email wrote:
Dear Sir/Madam: I am trying to find records of my grandfather, John
Cotter, who arrived in the US with his parents and siblings in June
1892. So, the records would be before that date. I believe that his
address was 45 Ballyhooly Road. His parents were John and Catherine (nee
Harrington) Cotter. His siblings were Philip, Catherine, Joseph, Ellen,
William, and James (these are the ones I can remember, there may be
more).Are you able to verify that they were members of your
Congregation? How can I receive copies of the verifying documents? Is
there a fee for this? Thank you for your help. Sheila
While awaiting the results of the Record Search, No. 45, Ballyhooly Road
was found, photographed, and sent on to Sheila.
45, Ballyhooley Road, (Blue Façade) where John Cotter Snr. and his wife Catherine
lived, and where it is assumed where John Jnr. was born in 1873
In response, having checked our Records, Aonghus O’Broin, Parish Secretary
replied;
Hi Sheila,
You have found a mother lode of records.
We have a wedding of John Cotter with Catherine Harrington
on 29-8-1868. The priest was Rev W O’Sullivan The witnesses
were Dan Harrington and then something indistinct that looks
like Thomas Pyne and A Harris.
The bride’s address is given as Grattan Hill. - That is all
we have, our records were brief at that time.
Grattan Hill, where Sheila’s Great Grandmother had lived at the time of her marriage
However !
We have lots of baptisms as follows:
Mary born 27-7-1869, address given Barrackstream, Godparents
Thomas Pyne and Abina Harrington, the priest was W
O’Sullivan
Michael born 16-9-1874, address given Harrington Place,
Godparents John
Cotter and Helena Harrington, the priest was William J Lane
William born 16-9-1876, address given 1 Harrington Place,
Godparents John Barry and Julia Anne Murphy, the priest was
Rev Buckley
Thomas born 31-7-1878, address given 1 Harrington Place,
Godparents Dan
Harrington and Susan Barry, the priest was William J Lane
Joseph born 16-10-1880, address given 1 Harrington Place,
Godparents Patrick Barry and ?? Harrington, the priest was
William J Lane
James born 14-10-1882, address given 1 Harrington Place,
Godparents Philip Harrington and Ellen Dooly, the priest was
Joseph O’Keeffe
Ellen born 4-11-1884, address given 1 Harrington Place,
Godparents Richard Kirwan and Ellen McSweeney, the priest
was J Cassidy
Philip born 8-11-1886, address given 1 Harrington Place,
Godparents John Lehan and Anne Murphy, the priest was J
Cassidy
I notice that you have a response from St. Joseph’s parish
identifying
Daniel 8-1-1891 and Catherine 20-3-1889.
The information above is all we have on record. We can
provide certificates if that is your wish. We charge a fee
of €10 per certificate and it may not be worth your while
having them when all you will get is the above information.
We have a Paypal facility on our website stpatrickscork.com
that we have successfully used to facilitate payments of
this nature. If you don’t require certs then a €20 donation
would cover the search costs.
Please let us know what you want us to do.
Regards,
Aonghus O’Broin,
Parish Secretary,
St. Patrick’s Parish,
Barrackstream (house unknown), where Mary was born in 1869
No. 1 Harrington Place (grey corner house), where most of the Cotter children were
born between 1874 and 1889.
Following the above information, Sheila wrote (9th. May);
‘This is fantastic! I cannot thank you enough. I don't know who Hannah is,
but I am going to try to find out.’
Map of St. Patrick’s Parish (part) and adjoining Parish, SS Mary & Anne
Shandon (part).
A. Patrick Street, Cork City centre
B
Rowland Lane, Anne Moore home
C
St. Patrick’s Church, Lower Glanmire Road.
D
Grattan Hill, Catherine Harringtons pre marriage home
E
St. Patrick’s School, St. Luke’s Cross
F
No. 1, Harrington Place
G
‘Kateville’, Ballyhooley Road
H
Harrington Square
L
No. 45, Ballyhooley Road
K
Barrackstream
M
St. Joseph’s Church
From the City Library; a photocopy of the ‘Cork Examiner’ dated Monday
30th. May 1892 advertising the various Shipping Companies operating
sailings from Ireland (Queenstown) to ports in the United States
As a matter of interest, it was pointed out to Sheila that the ISMAY
mentioned at the bottom of this advertisement was ‘Bruce Ismay’, the coowner of the ‘White Star Line’ and the person named in the story on the illfated SS Titanic which was lost after striking an iceberg in the North
Atlantic in 1912. Bruce Ismay survived this tragedy, he retired to live in
Connemara, Co. Galway between 1920 to 1936, and on ill-health, he
returned to England and died in 1937.
The vessel ‘Teutonic’ on which the Cotter family sailed to the United States
(New York) on 23rd. June 1892, arriving at Ellis Island on Wednesday 29th.
June 1892. This was 180 days following the arrival of the first person to be
registered at Ellis Island, this being a young Cork girl named Anne Moore.
Extract from Ellis Island Records of Immigrant Arrivals
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
Name of Passenger
Daniel Cotter
Ellen Cotter
Hanna Cotter
James Cotter
Jno. Cotter
John Cotter
Joseph Cotter
Kate Cotter
Kate Cotter
Michl. Cotter
Phillip Cotter
Thos: Cotter
Wm. Cotter
Wm. Cotter
Residence
Cork
Cork
Cork
Cork
Cork
Cork
Cork
Cork
Cork
Cork
Cork
Cork
Cork
Cork
Arrived Age on Arrival
1892
0
1892
5
1892
17
1892
9
1892
19
1892
50
1892
10
1892
3
1892
42
1892
17
1892
4
1892
11
1892
14
1892
20
Sheila, in one of her many emails recalled being told that her Grandmother,
Catherine Cotter (nee Harrington), had been ‘disowned‘ by her father on
Catherine’s marriage to John Cotter. This is despite Catherine (Kate) being a
favourite of her father and to the extent that her father, who had owned
property in the general area, had named some of this property as ‘Kateville’.
In the surrounds of Ballyhooly Road , there are places, even to this day,
named Harrington Place, Harrington Square and Harrington Row.
A physical search of the area failed to establish the whereabouts of
‘Kateville’, however, after a further visit to the City Library, ‘Kateville’
was identified from Ordinance Survey maps pre the 1900’s.
Note the name ‘Kate’ (Snr.) recorded in the Ellis Island immigrant records.
’Kateville’, the O.S. map indicated only two houses, now numbers 108 and 109
Ballyhooly Road, with a vacant plot adjacent. An extension to No. 109 was built on
this plot, now 109a, (grey façade with two dormer windows).
Sheila, on receipt of the list of Baptisms was understandably upset that her
Grandfather was not on the list, and so a further search was undertaken by
Aonghus but to no avail.
A question was posed to Canon Dan PP on the lines that ‘ if a child on birth
was found to be ‘poorly’ and a priest called, the child Baptised in the house,
could it be that such a Baptism might go unregistered in the Church Records
through oversight’. Canon Dan thought that this could have been possible at
that time, 140 years ago. Today, it would be normal that a request for a
Baptism is made through the Church Sacristan who would prepare the
required pre-baptism details and would ensure that there would be a proper
entry in the Baptismal Records.
This observation was passed on to Sheila.
Sheila replied;
Your email today reminded me of what my aunt told me about my grandfather: he was so
small at birth that he could fit in a shoebox...just as you suggested. I am going to try the
websites you recommended. But even if I don't find anything else, I have St. Patrick's
records and the memories of John Cotter, a gentle man who loved me unconditionally and
spoiled me rotten.
In a subsequent email Sheila having seen our article on the Home Page of our
website outlining Megan Smolenyak’s search for the true ‘Anne Moore’ and
she being the first person passing through Ellis Island and being of a similar
age as her Grandfather, was it possible that her Grandfather might have
known Anne Moore.
Reference to the Map above, Rowlands Lane where Anne Moore lived, is
reasonably close to the Ballyhooly Road /St. Luke’s Cross area. Rowlands
Lane would have been in the adjoining Parish of SS Mary and Anne
Shandon
In our article dealing with the Educational developments of St. Patrick’s
district, the following is an extract from that article;
St. Patrick's School opened to pupils for the first time on 13th September 1841. It's location at St.
Luke's Cross was described by it's first manager, Rev. Patrick William Coffey, as 'the most central
of St. Patrick's district and approachable by six roads which meet at this point.' Fr. Coffey, in his
letter of 20th. September 1841, applying for aid towards the payment of teachers' salaries and
supply of books, informed the Commissioners of National Education that 'the educational wants of
the poor in the district of St. Patrick's and in the parishes of S.S. Mary and Anne Shandon in the
eastern suburbs of the city of Cork induced the clergy and laity of the parishes to confer on this
important subject two years back.'
It could be reasonably assumed that the Cotter siblings attended this school,
it being ‘just down the road’ from No. 1 Harrington Place. It is also most
possible that Anne Moore and her brothers also attended this school, it being
the principle educational facility in the general area.
But did John Cotter know Anne Moore ?……….who can tell
In a further attempt to trace John Cotter the very helpful City Library
officials suggested that two websites should be accessed;
The website of ‘The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints’,
www.familysearch.org who specialises in records of births worldwide.
This website contains two John Cotters born in Cork in 1873 records but
contains no further information such as birthdates, addresses, or parental
details.
The second website is that of the ‘General Registration Office of Ireland,
www.gro.ie The Library officials advised that the tracing of births would
best be undertaken by a physical visit and search. In the case of a search
with just a name and a birth year to be undertaken by Registry Office
officials by a ‘distant request’ could be time consuming and expensive.
Finally, all that we could do in St. Patrick’s was to send a photograph of
the Marriage entry of Sheila’s Grandparents, unfortunately 144 year old ink
tends to fade.
Clearly Sheila knew her Grandfather and all she wanted was a copy of his
Baptismal Record. And this simple everyday request with which St.
Patrick’s was unable to comply, resulted in the above research, and may be
of some consolation to Sheila.
Should anyone have any further information in relation to our ‘search’ for
John Cotter, we are sure that this would be appreciated by Sheila.
Contact can be made at [email protected]
JK June 2012
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Addendum
Since going on line with the above, Sheila has advised that Catherine Cotter
had one more child, Martin, who was born in Chicago.
Sheila was also curious: ‘was £8 .00 or £9.00 a lot of money back then
(1892) ? Did they have to pay
for all of the children ?
We replied ;
‘Nine Pounds Sterling (£9.00) in 1892 equates to $415.36 US in 2012
Today, a one way trip on the Queen Mary 2 (taking six days) costs about
$1500 while Freighter Passenger (taking 10 days) is about $135 per day. In
both cases, the passenger would have a private cabin and the price also
includes three full meals per day.
In your grandparents time, accommodation and meals at this Passenger Class
was Second Class, not as good as Solo/Stateroom class but certainly much
better than ‘Steerage’ which was most likely ‘communal’, (and very rough,
especially in bad weather).
I doubt if there were any reduced costs for children as each would have been
allocated a bunk in perhaps a number of cabins. Reference photo of the
‘Teutonic’, these cabins would have been at lower mid-ship (the dark line of
portholes).
Sheila also asked ‘how did the adults survive 6 days on a boat with all these
children’.
We replied;
‘Given that it was mid summer, the crossing was most likely calm. It was a
great adventure and I would think that they were all very excited with the
prospects of a new begining in the ‘New World’.’
Furthermore, we have found a descendent on the Harrington side of the
family living in Cork and who is now in contact with Sheila.
Hopefully, we will be able to add more to the ‘The Search for John Cotter’
in due course.