Cardiff Children, Young People and Families Network
Minutes: 12/12/2016, 2-4pm
Baltic House, Mount Stuart Square, CF10 5FH
Attendance
Jackie Vining (CCYPFN Chairperson)
Sarah Canning (Head of Children’s Policy)
Anne-Marie Lawrence
Becky Jones
Nick Corrigan
Sam Heately
Caroline Davies
Ruth McDonald
Rebecca Burns
Franck Banza
Gaynor Davies
John Hallett
Catrin James
Julia Houlston Clark
Jennie Jones
Sandra Dredge
Ceri George
Jacob Ellis
Alison Pritchard
Mary Duckett
Barnardo’s
Welsh Government
Spice
Spice
Media Academy Cardiff
Media Academy Cardiff
Taff Housing Association
ACE Communities First
Bipolar UK
CAE
Tros Gynnal Plant
ACE Communities First
CWVYS
Wales Restorative Approaches
Celebrate the Children UK
Community Child Health
Children’s Services
C3SC Trustee
C3SC
C3SC
1. Welcome & Introductions
JV welcomed members to the meeting of the Network. This additional meeting of the CCYPFN has
been called in response to the Welsh Government’s Children’s Zones initiative.
The next CCYPF Network is due March 2017, and will be convened early March to support provider
and service user involvement in the Annual Council Reporting Framework (ACRF) ‘challenge
consultation’ scheduled 20th March (tbc).
2. Apologies
39 attendees booked on to the event. Apologies from Adele Gilmour Touch Trust were received.
3. Children’s Zones, Sarah Canning, Head of Children’s Policy, Welsh Government
Sarah noted that Children’s Zones have not developed to the point of fixed policy. The idea of
Children’s Zones is part of the Welsh Government’s focus on the wellbeing of communities and
making communities more resilient, specifically by working on empowerment, early years and
employment. Further background to this work is the current focus on Adverse Childhood
Experiences (ACEs).
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The first Children’s Zone started in Harlem, New York where the concept
focuses on multiple agencies working in one ‘zone’ (in this case a certain
number of city blocks in Harlem), ensuring that the children had all the support they needed to take
them through to their first job.
In the UK, Save the Children are supporting the development of three ‘Children’s Communities’.
Sarah also noted that this type of multiagency approach may already be happening in Wales, so this
gives an opportunity to share these existing models. The development of the approach will focus on:
 Improving outcomes for young people and reducing inequalities
 Focus on a specific geographical area
 Hold a long term vision and goal, as part of long term ambition for the community
 Lead by an ‘anchor’ organisation (such as School or Housing Association), with other
partners linking in
Sarah outlined at this stage the proposal is not compulsory, but an invite to providers to make
Expression of Interest.
There will be a workshop, which will be attended by local authorities as well as third sector
organisations, on Monday 19th December which will be discussing the Zones in more detail, including
potential pilot areas. The intention is for a number of pilot areas operating as Children’s Zones from
April 2017, which will then be evaluated and have the learning shared.
JV also referred the meeting to the related updates within the Welsh Government Website.
Please see below for a handout of basic points regarding the Children’s Zones provided at the
meeting by Sarah Canning, Welsh Government (Appendix 1), giving further outlines of Children’s
Zones, and notes from the Question and Answer session (Appendix 2) that took place as part of this
agenda item.
4. Expressions of Interests (and other thoughts)
Additional comments were raised as follows:
 What would happen if there was to be a change of government? Welsh Government is citing
a Theory of Change methodology, but it can take 30-40 years for something to actually
change.
 There seems to be a lack of direction for evaluation, which is similar to the situation at the
start of Communities First, which ended up being to the detriment of the programme.
 It wouldn’t be possible to attribute any changes solely to the Children’s Zone, there are too
many other external factors that would affect the population of a zone e.g. business
closures.
Please note; Children’s Zones update will be included on the agenda for the March meeting of the
network.
Action: Sarah Canning confirmed update for the network in the new-year and will keep in touch with
MD for this.
5. Third Sector Questions and C3SC Support
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There were no additional questions.
Organisations are welcome to contact C3SC for additional support in (for
example) finding partners or developing an expression of interest.
6. Any Other Business
MD shared a request and invite the Executive Public Services Board has made to the CCYPF Network,
for representation into a strategic Child Sexual Exploitation sub-group. Nominations to be made via
MD, will be confirmed at next CCYPF Network and subsequent EPSB.
MD raised attention to the current Families First consultation, Cardiff University, Tros Gynnal Plant
and SPICE are carrying out, with intention of building on and improving services currently provided
across Cardiff. The consultation link is live on C3SC website, with closing date 17th December.
Thanks and Close
JV thanked all for attending and invited members to remain for networking.
Appendix 1: Handout Note of Basic Points, Sarah Canning
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Appendix 2: Question and Answer notes
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Q. Have some areas already been identified for pilots?
A. Discussion of areas for pilots will take place at the workshop on 19th December. Cardiff is one of
the local authorities that have expressed interest in being a pilot site. Other areas have also been
mentioned as possible sites for pilots.
Would this link to childcare offer, as this would be unfair?
Proposals will be key.
Q. Is there a deadline for expressions of interest in being a Children’s Zone?
A. No. Suggest dialling in to workshop on 19th for more information. Chris Welling from Save the
Children, who are already running schemes in England (http://www.savethechildren.org.uk/aboutus/where-we-work/united-kingdom/childrens-communities) will be speaking about their experience.
The Welsh Government will be looking for approaches that will work in the different parts of Wales
they are based in.
One issue will be around how the zones link together > perhaps a local authority overview will
provide this.
Q. Will WG be looking to use Families First and Flying Start funding for this? Children’s Zone
services should be based on need. There should be a consistent approach (moving away from a
geography focus).
There is no intention to draw from other funded projects or programmes to support this work.
Children’s Zones will look different in different areas; some might include Families First and/or Flying
Start as well as other agencies and third sector organisations.
Save the Children have provided some funds for the Children’s Communities they’ve developed (for
instance for employing mentors).
Each zone can use evaluation tools to set their own goals (i.e. what are the issues in the area and
what indicators would show this has improved? This will allow more autonomy on a local basis.
This sounds like the Children’s Centres, which also included building capacity as a key theme.
These were good models that worked well but were not monitored or evaluated effectively. The
Children’s Zones sound like a regurgitation of this work.
- Some of the children’s zone work in England is developing around children’s centres
- This was funded by NoF, which no longer exists
- The Theory of Change model looks at developing over 15-20 years, but the Children’s
Zones is a 10 year plan?
The Zones would need to be continually evaluated
Q. Will zones be registered with Welsh Government?
There will be the expressions of interest. It will not be a requirement for zones to be registered with
WG, although they would want sight of evaluations and learning.
Q. Will local people as well as organisations/agencies be involved?
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Has to be collaborative with communities – this is not something that will be
‘done to’ people
Q. Cardiff is in the process of becoming a Child Friendly City, work which might overlap with CZs.
The CFC work will be looking to focus on one issue as a first step. Perhaps we would combine the
two pieces of work?
We need to ensure we consult with everyone who should be consulted, including children and young
people.
The ‘pipeline’ of taking children through to first jobs could last into a person’s mid-twenties, in
which case the name ‘children’s zones’ is not appropriate.
“Children’s Zones” is actually already trademarked, so this will not be the official name for the
projects.
Q. What are the specific outcomes expected, what are the roles of statutory services?
Outcomes will be different for each area, dependent on that area's key issues. The overarching aim
is to improve outcomes for children and young people; addressing obstacles that can prevent young
people from developing.
It sounds like Sure Start.
It’s hard to evaluate work that is different across different areas.
We would evaluate against each area’s individual outcomes. The pilots will be part of this process –
see how things are working/if they are working.
How will this fit in with the Wellbeing of Future Generations Act and Social Services and Wellbeing
Acts? This work seems to just be about children, but we need to support the whole family. Any
new work should be about asset-based community development.
What stage are Welsh Government conversations (across departments) at e.g. involving youth
work?
This work would need to be collaborative from the start, not Local Authorities bringing in people
and leading.
There is very little clarity on what this looks like. Concerned organisations will see this as
subsidising what Communities First currently do. There is a lot is expectation from Welsh
Government on third sector organisations. We are yet to see a plan in place that supports
organisations to do any of this work. It may encourage people to work in silos instead of
collaboratively.
What the work looks like will be led by the proposals. We will certainly have to look at the Wellbeing
of Future Generations Act and the wellbeing goals. We will need to see proposals to be able to test
them against the issues raised.
Q. What happens if there is no interest at all?
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A. This is a conversation – we need to see what people think, and should have
a better idea of this after the meeting on the 19th December.
The Children’s and Young People’s Partnerships (extended entitlements) dissipated. This is why
we need to include Youth Work in these discussions.
Q. How will this work without additional funding/resources (you can’t plan for long term work
when funding is often fixed term (1-3 years).
- In Harlem, philanthropy played a large role in the establishment of the project
- More focus on commissioning instead of grant giving, but there can be tensions caused by
tendering (competition)
Q. Has the Children’s Commissioner been involved? She is aware but not involved as yet.
Q. With no clarity, is it worth it? We’d all welcome a collaborative approach to addressing issues.
Q. Who monitors the work? Internally/Externally. We don’t know – monitoring would be
governance based, owned by each area but made public
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