The Trial of a Vigilante
The Bernhard Goetz Case
Script is taken from real court transcripts
Characters:
Barry Slotnick – Bernhard
Goetz’s Defense Attorney
possession and reckless
endangerment
Christopher Boucher –
Prosecution’s Star Witness
Gregory Waples –
Prosecutor
Troy Canty – African
American victim (age 19)
Peter Smith – Police Officer
Judge Stephen Crane
Barry Allen - African
American victim (age 19)
Bailiff – Security Guard of
the Courtroom
Bernhard Goetz – Defendant
– charged with charges of
attempted murder and four
charges of assault; gun
Dr. Bernhard Yudwitz –
Expert in Neuro-Psychiatry
James Ramseur - African
American victim (age 18)
Victor Flores – Witness –
Transit Authority Employee
Myra Friedman – Bernhard
Goetz’s neighbor
Background:
1981 Goetz is violently mugged by 3 African-American men in a New York City subway. Unsatisfied with
the punishment for the men, Goetz begins to question the effectiveness of NYC Police and starts to carry a
concealed gun.
December 22, 1984 On board NYC's No. 2 Expressway, Goetz fears trouble after being approached by
four African-American men. He fires five shots, injuring all four African Americans and leaving one of
them (Darrell Cabey) permanently paralyzed. Goetz rents a car and fleas to New England.
Bailiff: All rise…. this court is now in session. The honorable Judge Stephen Crane presiding.
Judge: Good Morning, ladies and gentleman. Prosecution may make an opening statement.
Waples: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen of the jury. My name is Gregory Waples and I will be
prosecuting this trial. At first, December 24th 1984 seemed a day much like any other day to the 20 or
so passengers who were seated in the seventh car of the 10 car IRT Number 2 Downtown Express
train. About 1:40 pm this grimy, graffiti smeared car was lurching, swaying in the noisy and peculiar
rhythm that’s almost unique to the New York City Subway system as the train holed underground
from the 14th Street Station towards its next stop at Chambers Street. Most of the passengers in that
car were preoccupied with their own affairs…. Suddenly, every passenger on that train, every
passenger in that car was jolted by the electrifying and terrifying spectacle of Behnard Goetz,
standing on his feet firing shots in every direction from a gun he was holding in his hand. In a brief
compunction of violence the defendant deliberately shot and seriously wounded four young men who
had been riding on that train long before he boarded the car. By the defendant’s own admission, tape
recorded admission that will be played for you at this trial; at least two of the four young men that he
shot were trying to run away or in the process of running away from him, when he gunned them
down. One of the two individuals, who was shot in the back, was a 19 year old young man by the
name of Darrell Cabey. Shockingly you will hear the defendant admit that before the last shot was
fired at the seated and helpless Darrell Cabey, that the defendant advanced on him as he was seated
in the seat and said, “You look alright. Here’s another.”
You will learn that the bullet that actually did strike Darrell Cabey caused massive injuries to his body.
It sever his spinal cord. As a consequence, since December 22, 1984 [sic] , Darrell Cabey has been
paralyzed from above the waist down and can look forward to the rest of his life, if that’s the best way
to characterize it, living in a wheelchair. For whatever reason, be it right or wrong, this case has
touched a raw nerve on the American anatomy. For whatever reason this case has not become
simply a media sensation, but something of a cultural phenomenon, and indeed… with the haste and
stridency that says quite a bit about ourselves and the society in which we live today, the name
Behnard Goetz, whose claim to fame is that he shot four persons in the subway…
Slotnick: Objection, your honor, as being an improper statement.
Judge: Mr. Waples…
Waples: Convinced that the criminal justice system has totally collapsed, this defendant with
moralistic and self-righteous zeal , resolved to take the law in his own hands. Like a self-appointed
vigilante, answerable only to a higher cause. This defendant determined to do, on his own, what he
felt the laws of that processes could not do.
You are here to decide whether the idea of equal justice under the law for all people is a reality, or is
an empty dream.
Thank you for your attention.
Judge: Thank you Mr. Waples. Mr. Slotnick, would you like to make an opening statement?
Slotnick: I do desire, your honor, if I may.
Judge Crane, members of the bar, Bernhard Goetz, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, as you know by
now, my name is Barry Slotnick, and I represent Bernhard Goetz.
I just sat and listened to the District Attorney’s summation [sic], which might indicate that Bernhard
Goetz was a citizen Rambo. During the course of the summation, I scratched my head and wished I
had a tape recorder. So that at the end of this case I could play you back that opening statement. So
you would be totally insulted, as I was.
There were times when I sat back there, and I thought I was sitting at a testimonial dinner for these
four thugs and hoodlams. But Mr. Waples forgot to tell you was that these four predators of society
surrounded Bernhard Goetz on December 22nd, 1984 on the IRT subway with the intention to rob him,
even admitting it. You’ll hear that in this case. You’ll hear police officers come in and give you
statements taken from this hero, saying that the purpose of surrounding Bernhard Goetz on
December 22nd, 1984 was to rob him.....
We might as well switch tables, because I’m going to prosecute those four and you are going to see
that those four were committing a robbery, They are not on trial here, for some strange reason, which
is not explainable, but Bernhard Goetz is.
But I’m going to try them for robbery, and I promise you that. And you’re going to convict them, and
acquit him....
Again, I ask you to have an open mind, and the assurance and knowledge that at the end of this case
you’re going to find Bernhard Goetz not guilty.
I thank you for your patience.
Judge: Mr. Prosecutor, you may call your first witness
Waples: The Prosecution calls Troy Canty
Bailiff: Do you solely swear that the testimony that you shall give to this court and the jury in the
case, People of the State of New York against Bernhard H. Goetz, defendant at the bar, shall be the
truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Canty: So help me God.
Waples: Troy, how old are you?
Canty: 21.
Waples: And where are you living at the present time?
Canty: A rehabilitation center.
Waples: What kind of rehabilitation center is it?
Canty: For drugs.
Waples: How long have you been there?
Canty: 24 months.
Waples: In December of 1984, were you in school at that time?
Canty: No.
Waples: How far had you gone in school?
Canty: Completion of the 9th grade.
Waples: You dropped out after that?
Canty: Yes.
Waples: How did you support yourself after you dropped out of school?
Canty: Robbed video machines.
Waples: Did you ever go to jail
Canty: Yeah.
Waples: And what kinds of crimes were you convicted of?
Canty: Misdemeanors.
Waples: and when did you begin using drugs? How old were you, approximately?
Canty: ‘bout 13, 14.
Waples: How much money were you spending on crack?
Canty: Sometimes $50, sometimes more.
Waples: Now, when you say $50, was that in one day, or in a week, a month, a year, or what?
Canty: That would be in a day.
Waples: Now, December 22nd, 1984 Troy, you remember that day?
Canty: Yeah.
Waples: Did there come a time on December 22nd where you met Barry Allen?
Canty: Yes.
Waples: What happened after you met Barry Allen?
Canty: We decided we was gonna go into Manhattan and break into video machines.
Waples: And what did you do after you made that decision?
Canty: We bumped into James.
Waples: You’re talking about James Ramseur?
Canty: Yeah.
Waples: What happened when you bumped in to James?
Canty: He decided to come along with us.
Waples: Did you meet anyone else that morning?
Canty: Yes.
Waples: Darrell Cabey?
Canty: Yes.
Waples: What happened.
Canty: He decided to also come along with us.
Waples: So that particular day, when you get on the train at 149th street, What happened at 14th
Street? Do you remember?
Canty: Man got on the subway?
Waples: Do you know who that man is now?
Canty: Yeah.
Waples: What’s his name?
Canty: Bernhard Goetz.
Waples: Was he alone, or was anyone with him, when he got on the train?
Canty: He was alone.
Waples: Now, on that particular day, what was your intention when you realized that neither you nor,
as far as knew, any of your companions had any money?
Canty: Try to get some.
Waples: Alright, after you saw the defendant sit down, he looked at you and you looked at him, what
happened next?
Canty: As far as I can remember, I walked up to him and asked him, you know, “Can I have $5?”.
Waples: Did you have anything in your hand?
Canty: No.
Waples: And when you were standing in front of him, where were Barry Allen, James Ramseur, and
Darrell Cadey?
Canty: As far as my recollection, I think they were still sitting down.
Waples: Alright, what happened, exactly after you spoke with the defendant?
Canty: He just got up from his chair and said, “You all can have it.”
Waples: Now describe his body motion when he got up.
Canty: Well, he got up. He got up and turned his back toward me.
Waples: and what happened?
Canty: He turned around, he pulled out his pistol and he fired.
Waples: Now, how far from the defendant were you at this point?
Canty: I was six, seven feet.
Waples: And what happened?
Canty: He fired, I grabbed my chest and I went to the floor.
Waples: Now, how many shots did he fire at ya?
Canty: One.
Waples: And what happened next?
Canty: I heard more shots.
Waples: How many more shots did you hear?
Canty: Three.
Waples: Did you see who, if anyone, was being fired at?
Canty: No
Waples: Where were you at this point?
Canty: Lying on the ground.
Waples: And where was James Ramseur, was he on the floor, too?
Canty: Yes.
Waples: And where was Barry Allen after the shooting was over?
Canty: I think he was still sitting in his seat, jumpin’ around, movin’, saying, “It burns! It burns!”.
Waples: And do you know where Darrell Cabey was when the shooting was over?
Canty: No. Well, I know he was near the rear of the car.
Waples: How could you tell that?
Canty: ‘Cause his voice came from that direction.
Waples: And what did you hear him say?
Canty: “Why did he shoot me? Why did he shoot me?”
Slotnick: Objection, your honor.
Judge: Overruled.
Waples: was it your intention to rob Mr. Goetz?
Canty: No.
Waples: Uh… Troy, there was one more question I neglected to ask you. When you got up from your
subway seat and approached the defendant, why did you approach him?
Canty: He was closest to me.
Waples: Thank you, your honor.
WAPLES SITS BACK DOWN, SLOTNICK GETS UP Cross-examination by Barry Slotnick:
Judge: Your witness, Mr. Slotnick.
Slotnick: Thank you, judge.
Mr. Canty, on December 22nd, 1984 when you were aboard that subway train, you weren’t wearing
that nice suit, and that shirt, and that tie, were you?
Canty: No, I wasn’t.
Slotnick: I’d like to ask you to look at defense Exhibit C. Tell me if you recognize it.
Canty: Yeah, I do.
Slotnick: Is that a fair and accurate representation of what you looked like on December 22 nd, 1984?
Canty: Yeah.
Slotnick: So the photo is the Troy Canty that approached Bernhard Goetz on December 22nd, 1984.
Canty: Yeah.
Slotnick: I mean there was no suit, no shirt, no tie on that day, is that correct?
Canty: Yes.
Slotnick: Tell me, when you entered this rehabilitation program in 1985, did you own that suit?
Canty: Yea.
Slotnick: And you wore it to court today, before the jury?
Canty: Yea.
Slotnick: Mr. Canty, did you ever go to the Bronx-Lebanon Health Center, Department of Psychiatric
Care?
Canty: I don’t remember.
Slotnick: Did you ever go any place for psychiatric care?
Canty: I don’t remember.
Slotnick: Well, you know if you went there, they would have kept records, right?
Canty: Yeah.
Slotnick: Do you remember telling them how you attacked a teacher in 1977. Do you remember that?
Canty: I don’t remember going there.
Slotnick: Do you remember attacking a teacher in 1977? Being suspended from school for beating
up a teacher?
Canty: Yeah.
Slotnick: After Mr. Goetz shot you, you got a private lawyer, didn’t you?
Canty: No.
Slotnick : You know Mr. Meyer?
Canty: Yes.
Slotnick: Well, in regard to Mr. Meyer he became your lawyer after December 22, 1984, didn’t he?
Canty: Mmhmm.
Slotnick: Didn’t Mr. Meyer bring a suit on your behalf against Mr. Goetz for five million dollars?
Canty: Yes.
Slotnick: And you are now suing Mr. Goetz for five million dollars?
Canty: Yes.
Slotnick: You didn’t drop the suit did you?
Canty: No.
Slotnick: So it’s in your interest for Mr. Goetz to be found guilty of a crime against you, so that you
can get some money from Mr.Goetz?
Canty: Its to my interest to see that justice is done.
Slotnick: Who told you to say that?
Canty: No one.
Slotnick: Oh… you just thought of that, is that correct?
Canty: Yeah.
Slotnick: Alright, now during the period since December 22nd, 1984, did you make any money as a
result of this case?
Canty: I don’t remember.
Slotnick: Well, isn’t it a matter of fact that the National Enquirer paid you $300 for an interview,
remember that?
Canty: Yeah.
Slotnick: Remember telling the National Enquirer, “We learned about taking peoples wallet’s,
grabbing gold chains of people’s necks and strong arming people for money.”
Canty: No, I don’t.
Slotnick: By the way, when you did that interview, there was another guy with you, wasn’t there?
Canty: Yes.
Slotnick: What was his name?
Canty: Barry Allen.
Slotnick: Yeah, and essentially you and Barry Allen agreed what you were going to tell the reporter,
you were gonna make some money off the National Enquirer, make statements to them, is that
correct?
Canty: Yeah.
Slotnick: Do you remember you, or Barry Allen, making a statement, “All four of us gathered around
him, standing over him, threateningly, as he looked up at us from his seat, Troy asked him, ‘Mister,
can I have $5?’”?
Waples: Judge, I object.
Judge: That objection is sustained, please don’t read from an exhibit not in evidence like that, Mr.
Slotnick.
Slotnick: Mr. Canty, did you testify before the Grand Jury, County of New York, March 21 st, 1985?
Canty: Yea, I testified, I don’t remember what date it was.
Slotnick: Did you testify to the Grand Jury under oath?
Canty: Yea.
Slotnick: With the grant of immunity?
Canty: Yea.
Slotnick: And you know what that was, don’t you?
Canty: I couldn’t be prosecuted for nothin’.
Slotnick: Robert Morgenthau, District Attorney, County of New York asked you to testify, didn’t he?
Yes or no.
Canty: I don’t remember.
Slotnick: Robert Morgenthau, District Attorney, the County of New York met with you personally,
didn’t he?
Canty: Yea.
Slotnick: And when he met with you personally, a petty thief…
Waples: Objection…
Slotnick: Withdrawn.
Waples: Thank you.
Slotnick: Did he ask you to testify in the grand jury?
Canty: I don’t remember.
Slotnick: Did he say it was in your best interest to testify?
Canty: I don’t remember.
Slotnick: Now, the idea of demanding money from Bernhard Goetz was yours.
Canty: I don’t recall demanding money from him.
Slotnick: No? Page 441, when Mr. Waples asked you the following question did you give the
following answer in the grand jury? “Question: When you went over and asked this guy for money, or
demanded money, whose idea was that? Answer: Mine.” Now do you remember being asked that
question and giving that answer?
Canty: No.
Slotnick: Remember on page 404, telling the grand jury that you were so close to Bernhard Goetz
that he had to take some steps back, and around, otherwise you would have been right on top of him.
Or words to that effect?
Canty: No, I don’t recall that.
Slotnick: So, you remembered it that way then, and differently now?
Canty: Yeah.
SLOTNICK SITS BACK DOWN, WAPLES GETS BACK UP
Waples: Troy, are you proud of the crimes you committed before you were shot two and a half years
ago?
Canty: No, I’m not.
Waples: Are you proud of the drugs you consumed before you were shot two and a half years ago?
Canty: No, I’m not.
Waples: Are you the same person now, that you were in December of 1984?
Slotnick: It’s irrelevant, it’s what he was then that counts.
Waples: Your honor, this is a witness testifying.
Judge: Overruled, let him testify.
Canty: No, I’m not.
Waples: How have you changed?
Slotnick: Objection.
Judge: Overruled.
Waples: Please answer the question Troy. How have you changed since you were shot?
Canty: I changed the way I look at things. I deal with my feelings… my emotions better.
Waples: What have you learned?
Canty: I learned that life ain’t peaches and cream, somethings you gotta go through you don’t want
to.
Waples: And have you gone through some things that you don’t want to go through again?
Canty: Yeah.
Waples: That’s all, your honor.
Judge: That was brief, re-cross
SLOTNICK REMAINS SEATED
Slotnick: Before you went to the program and after you went to the program, there are two Troy
Cantys, correct?
Canty: Yea.
Slotnick: You’re a different person today than you were then.
Canty: Yea.
Slotnick: You were a bad person, then?
Waples: Objection.
Judge: Well, for what it’s worth, overruled.
Canty: I committed crimes.
Slotnick: When you testified before the Grand Jury, that was the old Troy Canty, correct.
Canty: Yea.
Slotnick: When you confronted Bernhard Goetz on the subway, that was the old Troy Canty, correct?
Canty: Yes.
Slotnick: You know that when you took the witness stand here today, the district attorney hyped you
as his champagne star witness…
Waples: Objection…
Judge: Sustained…
Slotnick: Did you know that as you sit here right now that the district attorney feels that you are a
very, very important witness…
Waples: Objection…
Judge: …sustained.
Slotnick: Do you think you’re an important witness?
Waples: Objection…
Judge: …sustained.
Slotnick: No further questions.
Judge: Mr. Canty, thank you. You may step down. Mr. Waples, call your next witness.
WAPLES STANDS UP
Waples: The Prosecution calls Barry Allen
Bailiff: Do you solely swear that the testimony that you shall give to this court and the jury in the
case, People of the State of New York against Bernhard H. Goetz, defendant at the bar, shall be the
truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Allen: So help me God.
Waples: Mr. Allen, do you know a person by the name of Troy Canty?
Allen: On advice of counsel I reserve my constitutional rights against self-incrimination under the Fifth
Amendment of the United States Constitution and decline to answer that question.
Slotnick: I would object to that and ask Your Honor to direct him to respond to the question.
Judge:: (TO ALLEN)...How could the acquaintanceship between Troy Canty and this witness
possibly incriminate him?
Allen's attorney: I believe it can, Your Honor, based on information I have as Mr. Allen's attorney.
Judge: Would you offer immunity on that question, Mr. Waples?
Waples: No, Judge.
Slotnick: We would move the Court that this man be given immunity so he could testify before the
jury.
Judge: Denied. Ask your next question.
Waples: Mr. Allen, do you know a person by the name of James Ramseur?....
Allen: On advice of counsel I reserve my constitutional rights against self-incrimination under the Fifth
Amendment of the United States Constitution and decline to answer that question....
WAPLES SITS DOWN. SLOTNICK STANDS UP Cross-examination by Barry Slotnick:
Slotnick: Mr. Allen, my name is Barry Slotnick and I represent Bernhard Goetz. How are you this
morning?
Allen: Feeling fine.
Judge: (jokingly) You got one in there, Mr. Slotnick.
Slotnick: [Where] are you currently living?
Allen: Rikers Island.
Slotnick: And is that a prison?
Allen: Yes.
Slotnick: And are you in prison for a crime that you committed after December 22, 1984?....
[For twenty more minutes, Slotnick asked questions which Allen refused to answer.]
Bailiff: All rise…. this court is now in session. The honorable Judge Stephen Crane presiding.
Judge: Good Morning, ladies and gentleman. We are proceeding into another day of the People of
the State of New York against Bernhard H. Goetz. Mr. Waples, you may call your first witness of the
day.
Waples: The Prosecution calls Victor Flores to the stand. Direct Examination by Gregory Waples:
Bailiff: Do you solely swear that the testimony that you shall give to this court and the jury in the
case, People of the State of New York against Bernhard H. Goetz, defendant at the bar, shall be the
truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Flores: So help me God.
Waples: (STANDING) Mr. Flores, could you speak up loudly and slowly so that everyone can hear
you, if you would.
Flores: Yes.
Waples: How old are you, sir?
Flores: 50.
Waples: Are you a native New Yorker?
Flores: No, sir.
Waples: Where do you come from?
Flores: Puerto Rico.
Waples: How long have you lived in New York City?
Flores: About 35 years.
Waples: Saturday, December 22nd, 1984, did you take a subway ride that day?
Flores: Yes, sir.
Waples: And when you entered that car, Mr. Flores, on 34th street, did you become aware of any
other persons inside that car?
Flores: I was aware of noise. There was loud talking and noise going on in the car.
Waples: Well, did you look when you heard that noise?
Flores: Yes, sir.
Waples: And what did you see?
Flores: I saw a group of kids.
Waples: How would you describe this group of kids?
Flores: They were young kids, black.
Waples: How many in that group?
Flores: It was a group, could’ve been four or five.
Waples: How far away from them did you sit?
Flores: About 15 feet.
Waples: Now, what did you do when the train left 34th street?
Flores: I sat down and I went about my business. I took out the newspaper and I started reading the
newspaper.
Waples: And what is the next thing you became aware of, Mr. Flores?
Flores: The next thing I heard was a noise, it sounded like a shot.
Waples: Now, what exactly did you see and do when you heard that shot?
Flores: As soon as I heard the noise, I looked and I saw a man, standing with a gun.
Waples: Now, would you recognize that man, if you saw him again?
Flores: Yes, sir.
Waples: Would you point him out in the court, if you see him, please? POINTS TO GOETZ
Flores: Yes, sir. There he is.
Waples: Let the record reflect that Mr. Flores has identified Mr. Goetz as the man he saw. So you
saw the defendant standing up with a gun in his hand?
Flores: Yes, sir.
Waples: Can you describe exactly what you saw, please?
Flores: I saw two kids facing the man and the man just kept shooting at them and they fell down on
the floor. Two fell down on the floor. One fell down, but he was on the seat, he was not completely on
the floor. He was leaning on the seat.
Waples: Now, were you able to see the man’s face? The defendant’s face?
Flores: Yes, sir.
Waples: And can you describe the expression on his face?
Slotnick: Objection, your honor.
Judge: Overruled.
Flores: He looks like he is um… like he is very mad. Like he is angry.
Waples: Now, you said you saw two kids facing him.
Flores: Yes.
Waples: As the firing is going on?
Flores: Yes.
Waples: Now, what part of their body was facing the defendant when they were facing you?
Flores: Their back.
Waples: Now Mr. Flores, What did you do when the defendant left the train?
Flores: I came over to see if I could be of any help to the kids that were lying on the floor. The one
who was not lying, that was almost on the floor told me, “He did it for nothing. He did it for nothing.
We weren’t doing nothing.” He repeated this a couple of times. “He did it for nothing. We were doing
nothing.”
Waples: And when you saw the defendant sitting down, after the shooting was over and before he
got off the train, were you able to see his face?
Flores: Yes, sir.
Waples: And can you describe the expression you saw on his face then?
Flores: He was a different person altogether. He seemed like he was worried. He sat down at one
point and he put his hands on his head and in about two, three seconds, he got up and he started to
pace the train. He walked back and forth. But the face, from what I saw during the shooting and from
what I saw after was a different face altogether.
Waples: Mr. Flores, I believe that you testified before the Grand Jury that when you heard the shot
and looked to your left, you saw the defendant and three individuals.
Flores: Yes, sir.
Waples: Shooting at three persons?
Flores: Three persons, yes, sir.
Waples: And when you came back to the car, after the shooting was over, you found four persons
who were all injured?
Flores: I found four persons.
Waples: Including a person who was sitting in the small seat?
Flores: Yes, sir.
Waples: Had you been aware of that person during the shooting?
Flores: No, sir.
Waples: Thank you, nothing more.
Judge: Cross examination Mr. Slotnick
Cross-examination by Barry Slotnick:
Slotnick: (STANDING) Hello Mr. Flores. I represent Bernhard Goetz. Would you mind telling the jury
whether these shots that you heard, starting with the first shot, were in some sequence of rapid
succession… bang, bang, bang, bang. Something like that?
Flores: One bang… bang, bang, bang.
Slotnick: After that, you didn’t hear any other shots, ever?
Flores: No, sir.
Slotnick: By the way, Mr. Flores, this individual you say you saw, did you ever see him turn around
and walk to the rear seat, point the gun at someone sitting in the seat and say, “You look pretty good,
here’s another one.” Boom.
Flores: No, sir.
Slotnick: That never happened?
Flores: If it happed I was not there.
Slotnick: I have no further questions.
Judge: Re-direct, Mr. Waples?
Waples: No, your honor.
Judge: Thank you Mr. Flores, you may step down. Call your next witness, Mr. Waples.
Waples: (STANDING) The Prosecution calls Mr. Boucher. Direct Examination by Gregory Waples:
Bailiff: Do you solely swear that the testimony that you shall give to this court and the jury in the
case, People of the State of New York against Bernhard H. Goetz, defendant at the bar, shall be the
truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Boucher: So help me God.
Waples: Mr. Boucher, how old are you?
Boucher: I’m 33.
Waples: And what is your occupation in San Francisco?
Boucher: Display artist for a department store.
Waples: December of 1984 and shortly thereafter did you visit New York for a period of time?
Boucher: Yes.
Waples: Did you have a friend In New York that you were visiting?
Boucher: Yes.
Waples: What’s that friend’s name?
Boucher: Loren Michaels.
Waples: December 22nd, 1984… Mr. Boucher, do you remember that day?
Boucher: Yes.
Waples: Did you have occasion to go into the New York City Subway system on that day?
Boucher: Yes.
Waples: Did you go there alone or with anyone else?
Boucher: With Loren.
Waples: After you got on the train at 96th street, or shortly thereafter, did you become aware of one or
more youths on that train?
Boucher: Yes
Waples: What caused you to take notice of this group of persons?
Boucher: They were loud, talking loud, joking.
Waples: Tell us what happened when the train left 14th.
Boucher: After 14th street, we were not talking; the train was very noisy at this point. There were no
people standing, the aisle was clear. I was pretty much staring ahead. We were getting off at
Chambers Street. And at some point, the first thing I noticed, a woman had jumped up and then
balled over Loren. And I heard popping noises and my immediate thoughts were the kids at the other
end of the train were shooting off firecrackers. And Loren helped this woman up with the baby and
was heading them towards the door. And other people were running by, and I was just staring straight
ahead. And as Loren helped her up, my vision became clear to the end of the car and I was looking
down to see what was going on and the immediate thing I saw was the man with the gun standing at
the end of the car.
Waples: And what happened next?
Boucher: He shot someone sitting in the seat.
Waples: You saw that?
Boucher: Yes.
Waples: What did the person, who was sitting down, do at the moment that the shot was fired?
Boucher: Well he was sitting, grasping a bench and he just tightened.
Waples: Did you ever see that person try to get out of that seat?
Boucher: No.
Waples: Did you ever see him threaten Mr. Goetz?
Boucher: No.
Waples: Did he have anything in his hand, that you saw?
Boucher: No.
Waples: Is there any question in your mind that you saw a person sitting in that seat when the gun
was fired?
Boucher: No. No doubt.
Waples: And how is your eyesight?
Boucher: Perfect.
Waples: That’s all judge.
Judge: Your witness, Mr. Slotnick
Cross-examination by Barry Slotnick:
WAPLES SITS DOWN SLOTNICK STANDS UP
Slotnick: Good morning Mr. Boucher, my name is Barry Slotnick and I represent Bernhard Goetz.
Now… isn’t it a matter of fact that this was a very startling experience?
Boucher: Yes.
Slotnick: You said earlier to the Grand Jury that as a result of what happened you were emotionally
upset, traumatized?
Boucher: I wouldn’t use those strong words.
Slotnick: When was the last time you saw people lying on the subway floor?
Boucher: I was shocked, I was shaken…
Slotnick: … no, no, no, just answer my question, please. If you would.
Boucher: I have.
Slotnick: When was the last time, before this incident, if you ever saw anybody as you say, shot?
Boucher: I’ve never seen that.
Slotnick: When was the last time that you saw a gun?
Boucher: I’ve never seen a gun.
Slotnick: How long have you heard gunshots?
Boucher: Never.
Slotnick: So at a minimum, would you say that December 22nd, 1984 was, for you, a little bit
unusual?
Boucher: Yes, very much.
Slotnick; But you.. uh… remained cool. You were not traumatized, and you did not get emotionally
upset?
Boucher: Pretty much so, I was surprised.
Slotnick: Yeah… You’re saying that you saw this tall, blonde man with a gun firing down into a seat,
is that correct?
Boucher: Yes.
Slotnick: Mr. Boucher, tells us what you told the Grand Jury about the way the man was sitting
Boucher: Well as I recall he was sitting like this (SHOWS JURY) and he was grasping the bench.
Slotnick: And you’re looking from forty feet down, straight down, and you had a very clear view?
Boucher: Yes.
Slotnick; And he had the gun.
Boucher: Yes.
Slotnick: And the gun went bang? It is your testimony that he then turned around and looked toward
you?
Boucher: He was like looking down and he looked at the end of the car, yes.
Slotnick: What did he do with the gun?
Boucher: He was still holding it at his side.
Slotnick: Like this? (SLOTNICK PRETENDING TO HOLD A GUN STRAIGHT DOWN TOWARDS FLOOR)
Boucher: No, the arm still seemed to be bent. Still cocked at the elbow, I guess.
Slotnick; Like this? (SLOTNICK BENDS ELBOW, STILL HOLDING PRETEND GUN)
Boucher: Like that.
Slotnick: Then, what did you see?
Boucher: At that point I got up and I turned my back and I never saw anything after that.
Slotnick: Thank you very much. Now, the train leaves 14th street, very loud and noisy. You’re looking
straight ahead and up into the air?
Boucher: Yes.
Slotnick: Until you heard the firecracker sound you didn’t look to the north end of the car, did you?
Boucher: No.
Slotnick: As a matter of fact, you don’t know if someone came up to him with a machine gun,
because you didn’t look down into that area, and you just wouldn’t know.
Boucher: I know that there was no commotion.
Slotnick: You said the train was very loud.
Boucher: I didn’t hear, but I could see by glancing around.
Slotnick: Oh, oh… so now you glanced up to the north end? After 14 th street?
Boucher: Well, I was always glancing around back and forth.
Slotnick: (FIRM) So your earlier testimony, that you were looking straight ahead is incorrect, because
I asked you if you ever glanced up to the north end, you said no, so your earlier testimony is wrong, is
that correct?
Boucher: You asked if it took my attention; no, it didn’t.
Slotnick: So is it your testimony now that you can’t say that four individuals got up and stood around
Mr. Goetz, isn’t that correct? And you don’t know what precipitated the shooting? Is that correct?
Boucher: I don’t know what precipitated the shooting, no.
SLOTNICK SITS DOWN. WAPLES GETS BACK UP
Waples: Redirect your honor. Mr. Boucher, is there any doubt in your mind that on December 22 nd,
1984 you saw this tall, blonde man firing his gun into a person who was sitting in that seat?
Boucher: I have no doubt about it, no.
Waples: That was your perception on December 22nd?
Boucher: Yes.
Waples: It’s your perception today?
Boucher : Yes.
Waples: What was that man in the seat doing to menace the man with the gun?
Slotnick: Objection, your honor.
Judge: Sustained.
Waples: Nothing else.
Judge: Any recross?
Slotnick: No, your honor.
Judge: Thank you very much, Mr. Boucher. You may step down. Call your next witness Mr. Waples.
Waples: The Prosecution calls Myra Friedman Direct Examination by Gregory Waples:
Bailiff: Do you solely swear that the testimony that you shall give to this court and the jury in the
case, People of the State of New York against Bernhard H. Goetz, defendant at the bar, shall be the
truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Friedman: So help me God.
Waples: Do you know the defendant, Mr. Goetz?
Friedman: Yes
Waples: How do you know Mr. Goetz?
Friedman: He was my neighbor
Waples: What happened on December 30, 1984?
Friedman: He walked into my apartment and said, "Can I leave this with you for a few days?" And I
let out some kind of yell and said, "What is that?" And he said, "This is not the weapon that was used
in the subway shootings.” He walked towards my bedroom and I said, "No, not there. There” and I
pointed to my hallway walk-in closet. . . . As he walked over to the closet, I said, "Will that explode?"
And he said, "There are no bullets in there." I said "Do you have a license?" And he said, mumbling,
“…was purchased legally." After he left, I went upstairs to Mr. Goetz's apartment to knock on the door
with the intention of asking him to take the package back, but there was no answer.
Waples: Do you consider yourself a friend of his?
Friedman: No, absolutely not.
Waples: Have you ever considered yourself a friend of the defendant?
Friedman: Absolutely not.
Waples: How do you characterize your acquaintance with him?
Friedman: Mr. Goetz was and is a distant acquaintance. I had nothing to do with him. Nothing.
Waples: That’s all your honor.
WAPLES SITS DOWN
Judge: Your witness, Mr. Slotnick.
Cross Examination by Barry Slotnick:
Slotnick: (STANDING) Ms. Friedman, were you aware of the fact that on December 29, 1984, other
than Mr. Goetz, you were the only other person that knew who the tall, blond man on the train was?
Waples: Objection. How could she possibly know that?
Judge: Objection overruled.
Friedman: I wondered if anyone else knew about that but thought that I was the only one that knew.
Slotnick: You were aware, after the phone conversation on December 29th that Mr. Goetz had not
turned himself in?
Friedman: Yes, I was aware of that.
Slotnick: And you did nothing to alert the authorities who the person on the subway was?
Friedman: No, I did not.
Slotnick: As a matter of fact, were you--when Mr. Goetz called, did he call you Myra or Miss
Friedman?
Friedman: He called me Myra.
Slotnick: And did you call him Mr. Goetz or Bernie?
Friedman: I called him Bernie.
Slotnick: As a matter of fact, during the phone conversation, you not only asked him what happened,
but you rendered advice to him: "Bernie, this is what you should do": things of that sort?
Friedman: I most certainly suggested that he turn himself in.
Slotnick: And did you tell Bernie, "I'm not going to tell a soul"? Did you tell him that?
Friedman: Sure, yeah.
Slotnick: And did you also say, "Bernie, when you get in tomorrow, give me a call"?
Friedman: Yeah, something like that.
Slotnick: In other words, did you express to Mr. Goetz sympathy, concern, and care?
Friedman: Of some nature, yes, I did....
Slotnick: Miss Friedman, when you had this phone conversation on December 29, 1984, the first one
you taped, you expressed the feeling that Mr. Goetz was innocent of any wrongdoing. Why did you
have that impression?
Waples: Your Honor, I object.
Judge: Objection sustained. The jury is to disregard questions that don't have answers.
Waples: This is outrageous.
Judge: Mr. Slotnick, please don't reveal any contents of any conversations between the witness and
your client.
Slotnick: Without going into words, did you have an impression as to Mr. Goetz's guilt?
Waples: Your Honor-Judge: Objection sustained.
Waples: Would Your Honor direct Mr. Slotnick to please cease and desist from this line of
questioning which you have already ordered him not to pursue?
Judge: Mr. Slotnick, please don't ask any further questions about the communications at all and go
on to another subject. I think you have had enough on this line....
Slotnick: Now, between the time he left your apartment and the time he returned, did you happen to
call the police and the authorities and say, "The man you are looking for has just been in my
apartment"?
Friedman: No, I did not.
Slotnick: And when he left your apartment, it was still Bernie and Myra, was it not?
Friedman: Well, yeah.
Slotnick: Now, he came back, and when he came back he came back with a package, is that
correct?
Friedman: That's correct.
Slotnick: And you let him in?
Friedman: Yes.
Slotnick: And it was stilI Bernie and Myra, was it not?
Friedman: (LITTLE FLUSTERED) I don't remember. I don't remember if he said "Myra" or just "you."
I mean, I don't remember. I mean, do you mean did he call me Miss Friedman, the answer is no.
Slotnick: Of course not....You kept Goetz's guns in your closet?
Friedman: Yes.
Slotnick: And you didn't say, "Oh, no, Bernie, don't put them in my closet"?
Friedman: To be a little less humorous about it, this was a very unexpected visit.
Slotnick: Please answer my question. Did you tell him not to put them in your closet?
Friedman: No, I did not tell him that.
Slotnick: You were then and you are now a mature adult?
Friedman: At that moment I was kind of in a state of shock, but I am a mature adult, yes.
Slotnick: Isn't it a matter of fact you kept the package in your closet the entire day?
Friedman: Yeah, uh-huh.
Slotnick: You didn't call police?
Friedman: No.
Slotnick: And you still maintained this concern, sympathy, as you expressed before, about Mr.
Goetz. Is that correct, yes or no?
Waples: Objection.
Judge: Sustained.
Slotnick: Isn't it correct you told him in a phone conversation on December 31, you were very
concerned because you thought you may be committing a crime?
Friedman: Yes, indeed, That I… Yes, I was very frightened.
Slotnick: And did you ever say to him, "Well, can I drop them in the river"?
Friedman: Yes, I said that.
Slotnick: That was a good way of getting rid of them?
Friedman: Yeah.
Slotnick: By the way, that was your idea, not his, correct?
Friedman: That's correct. It was my remark.
Slotnick: As a matter of fact, at that point really what was going on is that you and your neighbor,
Bernie, were somewhat conspiratorial with regard to what was in your closet?
Friedman: I did not feel conspiratorial, Mr. Slotnick. I felt scared.
Slotnick: But the essence of it was you and he were discussing how you would dispose with what
was in your closet?
Friedman: I was extremely concerned about being in the position I was put in.
Slotnick: (FORCEFULLY) Why didn't you call the police?
Friedman: I did not--contrary to the turmoil that later developed, and got out of hand--I did not want to
end up in the headlines.
Slotnick: You did not want to end up in the headlines?
Friedman: No, I did not....
Slotnick: That is all your honor.
Judge: Ms. Friedman, you may be dismissed. Call your next witness Mr. Waples.
Waples: (TO THE JUDGE) At this time your honor, I would like to play for the jury the audiotaped
interview with the defendant, Mr. Goetz, and three New York City police detectives, Susan Braver,
Michael Clark, and Dan Hattendorf on December 31, 1984, after Mr. Goetz turned himself in.
Judge: Go ahead, Mr. Waples
PLAY VIDEO – Goetz’s Confession
Waples: The Prosecution rests your honor.
Judge: Very well. Mr. Slotnick, you may call your next witness
Slotnick: The Defense calls Officer Peter Smith.
Direct Examination by Barry Slotnick:
Bailiff: Do you solely swear that the testimony that you shall give to this court and the jury in the
case, People of the State of New York against Bernhard H. Goetz, defendant at the bar, shall be the
truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Smith: So help me God.
Slotnick: Could you please tell us about the conversation you had with Troy Canty, one of the
injured youths you found lying on the floor of the subway train?
Smith: I asked him if he was all right, and he said, "No, I am shot. " I said, "Where are you shot?" He
said, "In the chest." I said, "What happened?" and he said, "We were going to rob him but he shot us
first." And I asked him what the person looked like and he described the person to me.
Slotnick: That is all. Your witness Mr. Waples.
Cross-examination by Gregory Waples:
Waples: (STANDING) Officer Smith....You were obviously concerned with your personal safety
because as far as you knew there was a person with a gun and an inclination to use that gun aboard
the subway in which you were entering, is that right?
Smith: Yes....
Waples: Now, at this point, you were excited, Officer Smith, were you not?
Smith: Yes.
Waples: I mean, you found four persons who had actually been shot lying in a subway car, right?
Smith: Yes.
Waples: And you were a new police officer; you'd never seen actually one shooting victim before, had
you? Before December 22, 1984?
Smith: No.
Waples: And you certainly hadn't seen four, right? Especially in the close confines of a subway car,
right?
Smith: No.
Waples: You were excited, right?
Smith: Yes.
Waples: On the other hand, you had a person who was lying in front of you with a gunshot wound in
his chest, near his heart. You knew that, right?
Smith: Yes.
Waples: Let me ask you this, Officer Smith. Is there any possibility in all honesty that you
misunderstood or miscommunicated with this individual who was lying on the floor in front of you with
the wound in his chest?
Smith: No
Waples: Let me ask you this. Is it possible that he said, "'The white guy must have thought we were
trying to rob him and that is why he shot us" or words to that effect?"
Smith: No.
Waples: That is not at all possible?
Smith: That is not what I heard.
Waples: And are you saying that it's impossible that he said, "I tried to rob the white guy," as opposed
to, "We tried to rob him"?
Smith: No, I remember specifically.
Waples: Those words ring clear in your head today, two-and-a half years later. Isn't that right?
Smith: Yes....
Waples: Well, isn't it a fact that on November 27, 1985, you said to Detective Parr, Detective Clark,
and Detective Harvey that one of the kids had said something to you, and that they in turn asked you,
"Who did you tell this to?" and you said, "No one"?"
Smith: I believe I said I was never interviewed.
Waples: Do you deny making a statement, "I told no one" to Detective Parr?
Smith: I don' t deny it.
Waples: So, it's possible you said that?
Smith: It's possible...
WAPLES SITS DOWN SLOTNICK STANDS BACK UP Re-direct examination by Barry Slotnick:
Slotnick: Since the prosecution brought up your conversation with Detective Clark on December 22,
1984, why don’t you tell us what you remember.
Smith: I remember going upstairs to the second floor to tell the detectives that a statement was made
to me. When I got up to the second floor I saw Detective Clark talking with one or two individuals out
in the hall.. . . I told him that statements were made to me by one of the perps-or one of the victims.
Slotnick: And what did he say to you?
Smith: "Don't worry about it. I will get back to you."
Slotnick: And did he ever get back to you?
Smith: Later.
Slotnick: And when you say "later," how much later?
Smith: About eight months....
SLOTNICK SITS DOWN
WAPLES STANDS UP
Re-cross by Gregory Waples:
Waples: Your honor, I would like to ask Officer Smith about Evidence Exhibit 4, which is a WNBC-TV
videotaped interview with Smith from the day of the shootings. On the videotape, Officer Smith, in
uniform, was seated in the driver's seat of his patrol car. A reporter asked, "What did the victims have
to say?" "They just gave me a quick description," Officer Smith answered. "He said that they were
involved in--They said they were just fooling around with the guy, so I would assume that would be
possibly harassment. I'm not sure. It's hard to say. It all happened so quick. We were only there a
couple of seconds."
Judge: Go ahead Mr. Waples
Waples: Officer Smith, were you telling the truth to the WNBC-TV reporter in this video?
Smith: In substance. My testimony to the court has been the truth.
Waples: Was your account to the news reporter the truth?
Smith: That was different.
Waples: Well, are there degrees of truth in your own mind?
Smith: No.
Waples: Did you lie to that reporter, Officer Smith?
Smith: Somewhat.
Waples: You had forgotten about that little interview until late last night when your wife called it to
your attention, isn't that right?
Smith: Yes.
Waples: And isn't it a fact, sir, that. . . on December 22, when you walked into that car and kneeled
down to the person who was shot in the chest, he didn't say anything about trying to rob the white
guy, did he?
Smith: Yes, he did.
Waples: He did? You stand by your testimony?
Smith: Yes.
Waples: Isn't it a fact, sir, he never said anything at all about a robbery?
Smith: Yes.
Waples: You know, as a police officer, even a relatively inexperienced police officer, Officer Smith,
you know there is all the difference in the world between someone fooling around with a guy and
someone robbing him, right?
Smith: Yes, sir.
WAPLES SITS DOWN SLOTNICK STANDS UP
Re-direct examination by Barry Slotnick:
Slotnick: Now, why did you say that to the TV reporter?
Smith: I was nervous and had never been interviewed before. And I had what I thought was a very
important statement that had to be made...And I wasn't about to put it over national TV or what might
have been on national TV before I told the detective or someone in charge of the investigation.
Slotnick: Isn't it correct that you almost did give away the statement when you said, "'He said they
were involved in-" and then you went on to say, "They were just fooling around with the guy"?
Waples: Objection.
Judge: Overruled
Smith: It appears that way....
Slotnick: That is all your honor.
Judge: You may step down Officer Smith. Defense, call your next witness
Slotnick: The Defense calls Dr. Bernhard Yudwitz
Bailiff: Do you solely swear that the testimony that you shall give to this court and the jury in the
case, People of the State of New York against Bernhard H. Goetz, defendant at the bar, shall be the
truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Yudwitz: So help me God.
Slotnick: Dr. Yudwitz, what is your profession?
Yudwitz: Neuro-psychiatry.
Slotnick: In the course of your profession have you had occasion to consult and analyze individuals
who have discharged firearms under circumstances of fear and trauma?
Yudwitz: I have sir.
Slotnick: Now...did you have occasion to make a determination as to the body’ s biological
responses to fear?
Yudwitz: I have sir.
Slotnick: And did those determinations support your long standing knowledge of the body’s
responses to fear.
Yudwitz: They have indeed.
Slotnick: (TO JUDGE) Your Honor respectfully at this time I would ask that this witness be qualified
as an expert.
Judge: (TO THE JURY) He is qualified for these purposes as an expert in biological responses to
fear but it is up to you to determine whether he is such an expert and if so whether and to what extent
he will accept his expert opinion.
Slotnick: Thank you Your Honor. (BACK TO YUDWITZ) Now assume the circumstances under
which an individual discharges a firearm because he fears a definite threat to his physical safety and
in response to that he discharges a weapon. How does the body react at that point?
Yudwitz: Well if the individual is in a fearful situation and discharging a weapon the body goes on
what we call automatic pilot. Once started that typical physical action, the action continues until
completion.
Slotnick: In other words, one keeps on going automatically.
Yudwitz: It is the body in control at that time rather than the mind being in control at that time.
Slotnick: I see and can you cite some examples of this phenomenon?
Yudwitz: Oh there are numerous examples. Ah… someone as swimming underwater for a much
longer time than they would be able to do under ordinary circumstances. Four or five people holding
down a person who wants to run into a house to rescue a child. It is an extraordinary response that
we have the capacity for it. It is only stimulated when there are life-threatening situations.
Slotnick: And am I correct, this may or may not happen depending on the individual?
Yudwitz: Yes, depending upon the circumstances of the individual, yes.
Slotnick: Thank you, thank you very much.
SLOTNICK SITS DOWN WAPLES STANDS UP
Cross-examination by Gregory Waples:
Waples: All right doctor, just so I understand your testimony. You’re acknowledging, are you not, that
each individual response to stress is unique. Is that correct?
Yudwitz: Within a certain threshold, yes.
Waples: And you have not examined the defendant in this case, have you?
Yudwitz: I have not.
Waples: So your testimony should not be construed by this jury as reflecting in any way an
assessment of how this individual defendant, Mr. Goetz, reacted to stress on December 22, 1984 or
on any other date?
Slotnick: He hasn’t been presented for that purpose Your Honor.
Waples: So, the answer is your testimony should be so understood?
Yudwitz: That is correct.
Waples: Thank you. Nothing else.
Judge: Re-direct.
Slotnick: None.
Judge: Thank you Doctor you may step down. Mr. Slotnick, if there are no other witnesses, would
you please make your closing statement to the Jury.
Slotnick (TO THE JURY) STANDS UP
Well, when I first opened to you … I promised you that I would come back, look you directly in your
eyes, and ask you to acquit Bernhard Goetz. The issue at hand is simply for you to consider, did
Bernhard Goetz believe he was about to be mugged, that he was about to be injured? If you can
respond yes to that question then I trust that you all can rapidly go home. Mr. Waples wants you to
believe that Bernhard Goetz walked over to Daryl Caby and said, “You don’t look bad, here’s
another.” Bang!
Now that’s contradicted by lots of facts. One: It’s disproven by the witnesses in the subway car. Other
than Christopher Boucher, no one heard anything except shots in rapid succession. The witnesses
did not indicate that after there was a pause and then a fifth shot. Where does the DA get this?
Where does he get his theories from? He gets his theories from the most unreliable source in the
world. From the statement of Bernhard Goetz that you have seen here in court.
Now why is that unreliable? Am I undermining my client? The answer is no and I’ll tell you why. Nine
days after the event… nine days of pain, suffering, and running… nine days later, a traumatized, sick,
psychologically upset individual walked into a Concord, New Hampshire Police Station and made a
statement.
He said to detectives, “This sounds terrible. I walked over and I said, ‘You look alright, here’s
another.’ ''I wanted to kill those guys. I wanted to maim those guys. I wanted to make them suffer in
every way I could.''
How do I explain this? Exactly what Dr. Yudwitz would say happened…Mr. Goetz fantasized. The
mind went off and the body went into automatic pilot. Basically we can prove scientifically, that was
the fantasy of Bernhard Goetz....
Now, so you know, I have no burden in this case, it’s Mr. Waples who has it all. They came in here
without a case. Please, let him walk out without a conviction. There never was a case. Bernhard
Goetz should be found not guilty, he was justified in his actions. Now, since I will not be able to
address you again during the course of this trial, I ask you to please do one thing. Whenever Mr.
Waples raises a question, strikes a chord please say, ‘What would Slotnick say about that?’ If I’m
presumptuous, I apologize. But I ask you to consider our point of view when you hear the … very
clever argument Mr. Waples…
Now, I thank you for your time, your patience, and your attention. I just hope you remember, thank
you.
SLOTNICK SITS DOWN
Judge: Mr. Waples…your closing statement.
WAPLES STANDS UP
Waples: Thank you, your honor. Members of the Jury… Mr. Slotnick, in his pitch to you throughout
this trial, and in his summation has, in essence, asked you to return a verdict that will legitimize the
idea that the law does not apply equally to all persons. That some persons are above the law’s
sanctions and worse, some people are below the law’s protection....
Now, this is a sad, and at times confusing case. At times you may feel pity for the defendant, and
that’s alright. That’s human. At times you may feel sorry for the defendant and that’s ok, because
that’s human. And therein lies the great personal challenge you folks will face in this case.
Will you decide this case with your hearts or with your heads? Will you decide this case with emotion
or with logic? Will justice prevail in this courtroom or will you submit to the fear of crime Mr. Slotnick
has sought to exploit and to manipulate? Mr. Slotnick has put the question on the table, maybe, of
whether the lives of those four young men Bernhard Goetz shot are even worthy of anyone’s
consideration. But Troy Canty, Barry Allen, James Ramseur and Daryl Caby, who, let me remind you,
is paralyzed from the firth gun shot, are not on trial in this case. What is on trial in this courtroom is a
question of law. It’s a question of civilization, here. It’s a question of whether the defendant was acting
within or without the bounds, the proper bounds of self-defense when he rose up from his subway
seat and emptied his pistol into the bodies of four persons, four human beings on December 22nd.
It’s a question of whether the law will place a stamp of approval on what the defendant did that
Saturday afternoon when he advanced on a seated and totally helpless Daryl Caby and said, “You
look alright. Here’s another.” before blasting away with another shot at virtually point blank range....
You have heard his own confession where he labels himself as ''a cold-blooded murderer.''
How on earth can a shooting under those circumstances possibly be excused as a legitimate act of
self-defense? I believe that I have depicted Mr. Goetz as ''an emotionally troubled individual'' who is
''not a typical New Yorker.'' Mr. Goetz is not like you at all. You are reasonable people. A very wise
man named Ben Franklin wrote, several hundred years ago, “The citizen that tolerates injustice and
oppression in the name of security deserves neither liberty nor security.”
Now, I believe and hope that you twelve jurors who will, ultimately decide this case agree with
Franklin. I hope that each of you is willing, as willing to uphold and defend Daryl Caby’s rights as you
are to honor and protect the defendant, as you are sworn to do. If I have misjudged, or if you have
misjudged yourselves then I shall be disappointed. But the cause of justice will suffer more.
Thank you.
Direct Examination:
Judge: The people may call their next witness.
Waples: ((STANDS UP) Your Honor I recall James Ramseur.
Bailiff: Do you solely swear that the testimony that you shall give to this court and the jury in the case, People
of the State of New York against Bernhard H. Goetz, defendant at the bar, shall be the truth, the whole truth and
nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Ramseur: So help me God.
Waples: Think back to December 1984, how were you supporting yourself?
Ramseur: I was stealing.
Waples: You were shoplifting?
Ramseur: Yes I was.
Waples: And what would you do with the stuff that you stole?
Ramseur: Sell it.
Waples: December 22, Saturday before Christmas of 1984, do you remember that day Mr. Ramseur?
Ramseur: Yes.
Waples: Did there come a time when you met Troy Canty, Barry Allen and Darrell Caby?
Ramseur: Yes.
Waples: And what did they ask you?
Ramseur: I think it was Troy who asked me did I want to go out with him. That we were going to rob
video machines and I answered yes.
Waples: And did you get on the train at 149th Street and Third Avenue?
Ramseur: Yes.
Waples: And do you remember making a stop at 14th Street during that journey downtown?
Ramseur: Yes.
Waples: Did you notice anyone get on that point?
Ramseur: Yes.
Waples: And do you know who that is now?
Ramseur: Yes.
Waples Who is that?
Ramseur: Bernhard Goetz.
Waples: Now tell us exactly what happen next.
Ramseur: After the door closed and a little while later I turned my head to look toward where Troy
Canty was sitting and I noticed he was up in Bernhard Goetz face.
Waples: Now, who was up in Bernhard Goetz face?
Ramseur: Troy Canty.
Waples: What exactly was Troy Canty doing?
Ramseur: He was bent over like he was saying something to him. But he was asking him for the time.
Cause I heard him say something but I’m not sure what he said.
Waples: Did he have anything in his hands?
Ramseur: Not that I could see.
Waples: And what happen?
Ramseur: I turned around and I guess the gun had already gone off and I heard, you know, the shot.
Troy fell.
Waples: Now were you in a position to see that first shot?
Ramseur: No.
Waples: Incidentally did you or were you aware that Troy Canty was going to get up and walk over to
the defendant?
Ramseur: No.
Waples: What happen then?
Ramseur: Barry Allen yelled out Troy’s name,. I went over to try to get to him or whatever.
Waples: Now when you turned and heard that shot… do you know where the defendant was?
Ramseur: Yes, the defendant was turning towards Barry Allen.
Waples: So what was his body position at that time?
Ramseur: He had both his hands on the gun and he was turning toward where we were at.
Waples And what exactly did you see Barry Allen do?
Ramseur: I just seen him jump up.
Waples: Jump up from where?
Ramseur: From out his seat.
Waples: What direction did he go?
Ramseur: Towards where Troy was.
Waples: What happen then?
Ramseur: I just heard another shot and he was down.
Waples: And what did Darrell Caby do?
Ramseur: He jumped up he was trying to get out the door but I had my back pressing towards his so
he couldn’t get out the door.
Waples: And what happen next?
Ramseur: Goetz shot me.
Waples: Now what was your position when you were shot.
Ramseur: I’d seen him with what looked like the gun was aiming at me. It was like it was aiming
toward my chest. So I turned to the side. I just felt it. I felt the bullet go in my chest.
Waples: Now, when you say turn, what do you mean?
Ramseur: I turned away, you know to dodge the bullet to try and get away from it.
Waples: What did you see and hear next?
Ramseur The next thing that I heard was another shot.
Waples: Now, were you in a position to see who was being shot at?
Ramseur: No.
Waples: Now what happen after you heard that shot?
Ramseur: Darrell Caby was yelling, “I didn’t do nothing.”
Slotnick: Objection, your Honor. I ask that be stricken.
Judge: Overruled.
Waples: What happen after that Mr. Ramseur?
Ramseur: I could see that Goetz was going toward Darrell Caby.
Waples What do you mean?
Ramseur: From where I was he was going towards where Darrell Caby was.
Waples: And what did you see and hear?
Ramseur: The next thing that I heard was him saying, “they was trying to rob me.”
Waples: Who was saying that? Bernhard Goetz. : Who was he talking to at that time, if anyone, do
you know?
Ramseur: I don’t know who he was talking to.
Waples: You had a screwdriver in your possession at that time?
Ramseur: Yes.
Waples: Did you ever take it out?
Ramseur: No.
Waples: Even during the shooting?
Ramseur: No.
Waples: I have no further questions Judge.
Judge: Your witness, Mr. Slotnick
Cross-examination by Barry Slotnick
Slotnick: You are the same James Ramseur that just absolutely refused to testify without immunity?
Ramseur: Yes.
Slotnick: Once you got your assurance from the DA that you couldn’t be prosecuted for anything you
did on December 22nd, 1984, then you agreed to testify it that correct?
Ramseur: That’s correct.
Slotnick: Now, on December 22nd, 1984 when you were on the Number 2 train going down
downtown. How many warrants were pending against you from the New York City police department?
Ramseur: (quietly) Four.
Slotnick: I’m sorry I didn’t hear that.
Ramseur: Four.
Slotnick: How did you happen to get so many warrants pending against you from the New York City
police department?
Ramseur: Not going to court.
Slotnick: Oh in other words you get arrested then just not go back to court, is that right?
Ramseur: That’s right.
Slotnick: Tell the jury what happened with all those cases.
Ramseur: Can I tell the jury why what happened?
Slotnick: No.
Ramseur: Why not?
Slotnick: I ask the questions to you Mr. Ramseur.
Ramseur: Why not?
Slotnick: You answer them. Tell the jury what happened on those four pending cases.
Ramseur: What happened is I got sentenced to 90 days.
Slotnick: You also told Mr. Waples and the Grand Jury that you were bringing a suit, a civil suit
against Mr. Goetz?
Ramseur: Yes.
Slotnick: And you told Mr. Waples and the Grand Jury that without question you wanted to collect
money on this suit, is that right?
Ramseur: Yes it is.
Slotnick: You were suing Mr. Goetz for money and you wanted to get it.
Ramseur: Yes.
Slotnick: Don’t that time Cordila Mornay hadn’t been raped, robbed, assaulted and sodomized, so you
didn’t know you were going be spending eight and a third years in jail. You thought you were going to
be out spending Mr. Goetz’s money, right?
Ramseur: Yeah, if you want to put it that way, of course.
Slotnick: Now you knew in order to get Mr. Goetz’s money, you had to show that you weren’t a part of
the robbery?
Ramseur: Of course, I never was until this. Until after this Goetz’s case.
Slotnick: You knew that in order for you to prevail you have maintain a story that you were innocent of
robbing Mr. Goetz.
Ramseur: Yes and that’s exactly why you set me up, right? I mean you and Goetz are in it.
Slotnick: As a matter of fact, you knew quite clearly that as far as Mr. Goetz went, if he was found in
any way not guilty of shooting you, you wouldn’t get any money.
Ramseur: He’s gonna be found not guilty anyway. I know what time it is.
Slotnick: Now Mr. Ramseur, I believe you told us that the screwdriver you had in your pocket you put
in your pocket two days before, is that correct?
Ramseur: Yes.
Slotnick: Now when you testified before the Grand Jury on March 18th, didn’t you tell the Grand Jury
that that screwdriver had been in your pocket for a week straight? Didn’t you tell the Grand Jury you
didn’t even know you had it?
Ramseur: No, I don’t remember telling the Grand Jury that.
Slotnick: You don’t remember telling the Grand Jury that?
Ramseur Nope.
Slotnick: Well, on March 18th on page 230, when you were asked this question, did you give this
answer: “Why were you carrying that screwdriver?” Answer: “That was I’d say, that screwdriver was in
my pocket for a week straight.”
Ramseur: Nope.
Slotnick: You never said that to the Grand Jury?
Witness: I don’t remember saying that.
Slotnick: May I have a moment your Honor? I’d like to show you a document and maybe this will
refresh your recollection.
Witness: I don’t want to see it.
Slotnick: I’m sorry.
Witness: I don’t want to see it. You could have just made those up.
Slotnick: No, give it a try Mr. Ramseur it might jog your memory if after you have read it you decide it
doesn’t help then you can say so. Now, does that refresh your recollection that you told the Grand
Jury something different than you told us here?
Witness: Nope.
Slotnick: Mr. Ramseur, did you tell us that ah the purpose of your trip downtown was to break into
video games?
Witness: Yes.
Slotnick: Did you tell any police officers that the reason you went downtown was to break into video
games?
Witness: That wasn’t a reason, I’m trying..
Slotnick: Answer my question, did you tell any police officers that the reason you went downtown to
break into video machines.
Witness: Yes, but I never said…
Slotnick: Your Honor could I have an admonition to this witness?
Witness: You see he’s trying to trick me.
Judge: Listen, don’t volunteer because Mr. Waples has an opportunity if he thinks he needs it to illicit
from you any additional information along with what limited questions and answers you have given to
Mr. Slotnick.
Witness:He’s twisting things around and I don’t like that.
Judge: Mr. Ramseur, please, listen to me. This is the way it works. You have to keep this jury’s eye
on the ball. Now Mr. Slotnick is asking questions and cross that require very narrow answers. You
have to concentrate on his questions, answer the questions as best you can. If don’t understand, tell
them, tell him you don’t understand them. If you can’t answer yes or no, tell him you can’t answer yes
or no. Don’t volunteer anything.
Witness: He’s trying to twist.
Judge: Listen to me. Mr. Waples will get the chance after Mr. Slotnick is finished to flush out what you
have to say. Leave it up to Mr. Waples. Let’s go on Mr. Slotnick.
Slotnick: On the day of the shooting you asked by a detective by the name of McCormick why you
were going downtown and you said you and your friends were going downtown to buy some items
you could wholesale on the street.
Witness: I don’t remember.
Slotnick: Well perhaps I can help you if I show you this police report. Maybe this will refresh your
recollection.
Witness: I don’t need to see no police report.
Slotnick: Excuse me, I didn’t hear you.
Witness: I don’t need to see no police report.
Slotnick: You think they’re lying?
Witness: Yap, twisting my stories around, I’m telling the truth. I’ve got nothing to hide.
Slotnick: Yeah well, then the police officer McCormick what he put in his report then was.
Witness: He twisted it around or you did.
Slotnick: Maybe he even lied to you, is that correct. Maybe he even lied on this report.
Witness: I guess so.
Slotnick: Could you make a little effort, perhaps, if I show you the report. Would you read it. You tell
us what ‘s the truth , what’s a lie and where a police officer twisted your words around.
Witness: Look I don’t need to read it because I know what happen and I know what I told people. I
told the truth. I’ve got nothing to hide like I’m telling you now.
Slotnick: Alright, now did you talk to another policeman.
Witness: I don’t remember.
Judge: Wait for the question. He said the 22nd.
Slotnick: Police office Natali, more specifically. Do you remember a lady police officer?
Witness: Yes I do.
Slotnick: Well did you tell her ..
Witness: No.
Slotnick: Oh…so what you have (mumbling) is a lie?
Witness: um hum
Slotnick: You know what’s in the report?
Witness: Yes
Slotnick: Tell us, tell us what’s in the report.
Witness: No
Slotnick: You tell us, go ahead. You tell us. Come on, take your hand away from your mouth. Slotnick:
Pay attention.
Witness: Look I already looked through this with Waples. I know the story, he twisted it up too, I
guess.
Slotnick: Mr. Ramseur, can you answer this question with a yes or a no. Maybe I can help you.
Slotnick: Do I make you nervous?
Witness: No. You don’t make me nervous.
Slotnick: Are you nervous?
Witness: No.
Slotnick: Alright then, why don’t you answer this question? Did you tell Natelly not only were the four
you not loud but you weren’t hanging on bars or annoying the other passengers.
Witness: No.
Slotnick: Isn’t a matter of fact you were loud, you were hanging on bars and annoying the other
passengers?
Witness: No. I’m not that type of person. I ‘m not a monkey. I don’t swing on bars.
Slotnick: Well, what about your other friends? Were they loud? Hanging on bars? Annoying the other
passengers?
Witness: No.
Slotnick: Well if I may ask Mr. Ramseur to read these reports. Read the yellow portion, perhaps this
can refresh his recollection.
Witness: I don’t need to read no reports.
Judge: I need you to do that so that you can answer the next question. All you have to do is take a
look.
Witness: I don’t need to see no reports.
Slotnick: I ask you to direct the witness to read the reports.
Judge: I’m directing. Mr. Ramseur, all you have to do is look at the report.
Witness: Look, I know what happened. I don’t have to look.
Judge: That is not the point of the question. The point of the question is what you told other people
and whether you remember what you told other people. One of the things that Mr. Slotnick is entitled
to do is refresh your recollection, so please, look at the reports and answer his questions. If you have
any difficulty reading Mr. Ramseur we will have it read to you silently. Mr. Ramseur?
Witness: No, I’m reading it to myself.
Judge: Alright Mr. Slotnick we’re ready for your question.
Slotnick: Does it refresh your recollection?
Witness: Nope.
Slotnick: Now, Troy Canty was someone you had gone out with before and stolen and robbed?
Witness: Yes it is.
Slotnick: Troy Canty is the individual who on December 22nd told the others where to go, what to do?
Witness: True.
Slotnick: And Darrell Caby was someone else that you admitted you’ve gone out with before and
stolen and robbed.
Witness: Yes it is.
Slotnick: And also Barry Allen is someone you’ve known for a period of years and you’ve stolen and
robbed with him too? Is that right?
Witness: Yes it is.
Slotnick: So the four of you had each stolen and robbed together?
Witness: We’ve never stole and robbed nobody. We broke into video machines. Why you putting
robbing in. We never stole or robbed nobody together.
Slotnick: Well you break into machines.
Witness: Don’t try to convince the jurors that I’m a robber.
Slotnick: Well, let me ask you this Mr. Ramseur. Weren’t you convicted of robbing on the day that
Cordelia Mornay was raped and sodomized.
Witness: Yes I was but I never committed that crime.
Slotnick: Oh, I guess the jurors believed that during the trial didn’t they?
Witness: I guess so they were paid to. It was one set-up.
Slotnick: How many jurors were paid?
All of them. You’re probably paying the jurors now.
Slotnick: I pay the jurors?
Witness: This could be a set-up. I don’t know. I don’t bleep know.
Slotnick: Tell me something Mr. Ramseur, have we ever met?
Witness: No we have never ever met but I heard about you.
Slotnick: Oh..I hope it was nothing unpleasant.
Witness: Oh it was unpleasant. I know all about you baby.
Slotnick: Now, since you get later in the afternoon on the 22 nd, do you remember what you did on the
21st?
Witness: The 21st of what?
Slotnick: December, the day before.
Witness: Yes.
Slotnick: Alright, tell us what you did.
Witness: I was with my girlfriend all day.
Slotnick: Now, remember what you did the day before?
Witness: Yes I do.
Slotnick: Tell us what you did the day before.
Waples: Now, I’m confused on what day we’re talking about?
Slotnick: We’re talking about…
Witness: What I did the day before got nothing do with this case.
Slotnick: Well the judge is going to make that determination. You just tell us what you did the day
before.
Witness: No.
Slotnick: Your Honor I would ask for a direction.
Judge: Do you remember, Mr. Ramseur, what you did on December 20 th.
Witness: No.
Judge: You don’t remember.
Witness: No.
Judge: Your answer then is that you don’t remember.
Slotnick: You didn’t just now tell the jury that you remember what you did the day before?
Witness: Look I remember but I’m not going to tell you, it’s none of your business.
Slotnick: Your Honor?
Witness: If I didn’t I wouldn’t have to tell you.
Slotnick: I don’t have to take this abuse, your Honor. Please I ask the court to intercede.
Judge: Mr. Ramseur, when a question is asked if there is no objection and it’s not sustained then you
must answer it. That is your obligation.
Witness: No.
Judge: It is something that you promised you would do when you took the oath.
Witness: Alright.
Slotnick: Now would you please answer the question? Please, to the best.
Witness: What I’m doing with my girlfriend has nothing to do with this case.
Judge: He asked only if you remember what you did the day before. He didn’t ask you what you did
the day before.
Witness: That’s none of his business.
Judge: But do you remember is all he ask.
Witness: I don’t remember the whole day but I remember some of the day.
Judge: You remember some of the day
Witness: And I refuse to tell.
Slotnick: I’m not going to ask you what you did with anybody that day.
Witness: No, I’m just trying to help you.
Slotnick: I’m just doing to ask you what you did that day.
Witness: Regardless, I’m not going to tell you.
Judge: He didn’t ask you, sir.
Slotnick: Who were you with that day?
Witness: None of your business.
Slotnick: Your Honor?
Judge: Do you remember who you were with Mr. Ramseur?
Witness: Yes, I remember who I was with. I told him, my girlfriend.
Judge: There’s your answer sir.
Slotnick: Alright.
Witness: What you wanta know, the name?
Judge: He didn’t ask you that.
Witness: Sure seem like he did.
Slotnick: Do you remember what you did on the 19th?
Excuse me.
Slotnick: Do you remember what you did on December 19th, the day before that?
Witness: Yeah, I remember what I did the night before that.
Slotnick: Alright, now ah, who were you with that day?
Witness: My girlfriend.
Slotnick: Were you with her all day?
Witness: Not the whole day but most of it.
Slotnick: What did you do that day.
Witness: None of your business.
Judge: How far back are we going Mr. Slotnick?
I have a reason for this your Honor and I will show it to the court and I would ask the court to please
admonish the witness not to say, “none of your business, “ anymore.
Witness: None of your business anymore.
Slotnick: I think that’s inappropriate, your Honor.
That’s inappropriate Mr. Ramseur. You just answer the question.
Witness: Judge you better take me out of here.
Judge: Just cool it. I think if you want a break, I think we can take a few minutes.
Slotnick: Mr. Ramseur could use the time, your Honor.
Judge: Why don’t we do that. Jurors, please do not discuss anything to do with this case among
yourselves, we’ll be back with you in a few minutes.
[Jury leaves and witness in instructed by his attorney.]
Judge: Mr. Ramseur the court wishes to remind you that you are still under oath, and I’m sure you
understand that, is that correct?
Witness: Yeah.
Judge: Okay, now we’re’ almost finished with this cross-examination and that means we’re almost
finished with being a witness here. I simply remind you to listen to the questions of the crossexaminer, there are a few remaining. Be attentive to them answer them as shortly as you can with as
few amount of words as you can and we’re going to out of here in no time flat, okay. Are you with
me?
Witness: Yes, sir Judge. I’m tired of him playing games with me. This is a serious case. He’s playing
games with me. I’m ready to get out of here.
Judge: He’s ready to get out of here.
Witness: He’s playing games with me. This is a serious case. He’s playing games with me. Witness:
He’s going to ask about some old bullshit. Just take me out of here.
Judge: I’m going to take you out of here as soon as he he’s finished because that is a requirement of
the constitution.
Slotnick: I ask you your Honor to direct the witness to answer my questions.
Judge: I know you want to cooperate. I know you want to purge your contempt that you previously
committed. Now I’m just asking you to listen to the questions, answer them to the best of your ability
and don’t volunteer anything because Waples, you know, Mr. Waples is gonna have a chance to ask
anything any wants on re-direct examination.
Witness: Let me tell you something, Judge. This is bleep all together, just take me out of here.
Judge: Well I think the jury already knows that.
Slotnick; His impressions, your Honor.
Witness: Just take me out of here, this is bleep.
Judge: Okay, let’s just go on with this. Let’s bring the jury back in here.
Witness: Judge you gotta get me for contempt cause I’m not gonna answer the questions.
Judge: You want to cooperate?
Witness: I’m ready to cooperate but he’s playing bleep games.
James why don’t you shut up.
Judge: Mr. Ramseur, just answer the questions, don’t volunteer anything, and don’t put on a show.
Witness: Just take me out of here, Judge.
Judge: Let’s go.
Slotnick: We were going back to two days before the shooting. You spent that time, most days with
your girlfriend, is that correct? Just answer the question.
Witness: I’m not answering your questions, you’re playing bleep games.
Judge:Wasn’t it two days before the 22nd you said you were with your girlfriend? I think that was the
answer.
Witness: Judge, you’re gonna give me contempt cause they’re setting me up. This is bleep.
Judge: When the jury was out of the room we had a sidebar for that and he had a good faith basis for
the question and Mr. Slotnick was permitted to ask the question. Now you just answer and don’t get
upset. What’s the answer?
Witness: Take me out of here.
Judge: Next question.
Slotnick: I’d like him to respond to that question.
Judge: That’s it, he refuses. Do you have another question?
Slotnick: Yes.
Slotnick: On the day before that, the day before the 19th, did you spend time with your girlfriend on
that day too?
Witness: I didn’t spend time with Cordelia Mornay.
Slotnick: Your Honor will you please just direct this witness to answer my question.
Witness: Just take me out of here, this is bleep. I’m not going to answer this question. If you want to
get me for contempt , go ahead I’m already in jail for something I didn’t do. More time ain’t gonna hurt
me.
Judge: Concentrate on the question.
Witness: Just take me out of here, Judge.
Slotnick: You will remember December 18th, 1984. That was four days before the incident. Do you
remember that day, Mr. Ramseur? Do you have any recollection of it at all?
Witness: Take me out of here.
Slotnick: Can you answer my question?
Witness: No.
Slotnick: Do you refuse to answer my question?
Witness: Yes, I refuse to answer the question.
Slotnick: I direct you to answer my question.
Witness: I refuse to answer your question.
Judge: I direct you to answer Mr. Slotnick’s last question.
Witness: I refuse.
Judge: I’m gonna ask the jury to leave the courtroom.
Witness: This is bullshit.
Judge: James, I cannot understand how you can come down the homestretch, be almost finished
testifying and then refuse to answer a couple of lousy questions at the end.
What, what what prompt you to put up your back again after you promised me you would purge your
contempt?
Witness: Judge, take me back. I’m tired of this bull….
Judge: I’m about to take you back because Mr. Slotnick is almost finished.
Witness: I’m not answering any more bleep questions. The decision is already made already.
Judge: I’m sorry you believe that but it hasn’t been made.
Witness: Yeah, all right.
Judge: Your testimony is important and I don’t want to strike it out because Mr. Slotnick has not been
able to cross-examine you and that is just about the next application I’m going to get. And I have
finished my weeks research on all the law Mr. Slotnick has given me. I don’t need yet another
problem because you refuse to testify at the law few measly questions.
Witness: You’re going to give me contempt because I’m not going to answer.
Judge: I don’t want to give you contempt because I want you to answer the last questions.
Judge: Can you do that last little bit?
Witness: No.
Judge: You think tomorrow morning that you talk to whoever it is you were with at Riker’s Island that
you would feel better if you came back tomorrow morning?
Witness: No.
Judge: You know I have no choice but to cite you for contempt again.
Witness: I have no choice, so go ahead.
Judge: Indeed. You have been previously cited and I was using your testimony as a chance to purge
that prior citation but didn’t you talk to Mr. Cleaverman about this?
Witness: No. Take me back. I’m not taking no more. This is all a set up.
Slotnick: Your Honor, your Honor, respectfully, I appreciate the concern the court has for this person,
but I don’t like to see the court humbling itself to such a point. I would respectfully ask the court to
deal with this witness accordingly. How dare he, how dare he use such language in this courtroom
and I’m sure the District Attorney agrees with me, how dare he use and abuse the majesty of this
court
Witness: You’d do the same thing if you were in my predicament.
Slotnick: I didn’t rape and rob and sodomize a woman.
Witness: You know damn wall who committed that crime.
Judge: The very essence of fairness and justice requires that this witness be completed on the
witness stand and not that his entire testimony be stricken which you and I both know of the
consequence of his refusal to complete his testimony. Especially after this jury has heard all it’s
heard. Unless you are going to make that application and are going to terminate your cross
examination now.
Slotnick: The majesty of this court is not terribly much involved more than fairness to the parties and
the proceeding. I appreciate that your Honor, and I’m just concerned , perhaps my anger comes from
the reaction of the witness. I ah .. I think this court deserves the utmost respect and all the lawyers
and litigants do and Mr. Ramseur hasn’t done that. I am angry because I take I do seriously. And I
think Mr. Waples, takes what he does seriously and I think the court takes what it does seriously and
if I insulted the court than I apologize.
Judge: I understand that and I am still trying to get your cross-examination with this witness
completed.
Slotnick: Thank you Judge, I would like to now complete my cross-examination.
Judge: I want him to understand that his very involvement
Witness: You don’t understand, you.
Judge:Unless he finishes these last few questions…
Witness: Take me out of here. You see what he’s doing if it wasn’t for those charges. That’s all he
can use is those charges. We’re not talking about the Goetz case. He’s talking about some other
charges. He’s trying to come with some other bleep.
Judge: You don’t understand, Mr. Ramseur. What ever he says to this jury about those charges is
under my strict control and I am not a partisan here I am a neutral and I would just like to see what is
required in this case be done. Now you are almost finished. You are so close to the end. You are
walking at the very finish line. If I may…borrow an analogy to the ???? Don't you understand you are
almost there?
Witness: I need time.
Judge: I don’t want to give you anymore time. I don’t want to strike your testimony. I want this jury to
have your testimony and evidence.
Witness: Judge, I’m not gonna sit here and go for this. I already know what he’s doing . You might not
know it but I know it because I’m going through it.
[Please be seated at once Jurors.]
Slotnick: Mr. Ramseur, four days before the incident please tell this jury what you did.
Witness: No.
Judge: I direct you to answer the question Mr. Ramseur. Do you refuse to answer the question?
Witness: I refuse to answer the question.
Judge: If you refuse to answer the question the court will cite you to show cause why you should not
be held in contempt of court for failing to answer a lawful question put to you. Do you understand, sir?
Witness: Yes.
Judge: Do you still refuse to answer?
Witness: Yes.
Judge: I hold you in contempt on that question. Next question.
Slotnick: Before December 22nd, 1984 when was the last time you met with Barry Allen?
Witness: I ain’t answering no more questions.
Judge: I direct you to answer that question.
Witness: I ain’t answering no more of your questions either.
Judge: I haven’t ask you any.
Witness: He asked me fourteen times. Com ‘on man.
Judge: I don’t know how many questions are going to be put to you that you are going refuse to
answer but I direct you to answer each and every question that is not objected to and which the
objection is not sustained. The last question will be read back to you and I direct you to answer it.
Witness: I ain’t answering no more questions, Judge.
Judge: You understand the penalty will be contempt?
Witness: I understand.
Judge: I cite you to show cause why you should not be held in contempt for refusing to answer that
question. Next question, Mr. Slotnick.
Slotnick: Prior to December 22nd, 1984 when was the last time you met with Troy Canty, Darrell Caby,
and Barry Allen?
Judge: Answer the question, please.
Judge: Do you refuse to answer sir or can you answer, will you answer?
Judge: Let the record reflect that the witness remains complete silent and refuses to nod in any
direction. I direct you to answer that question, Mr. Ramseur.
Witness: [Silence]
Judge: I hold you in contempt on that question. Next question, Mr. Slotnick.
Slotnick: Prior to December 22, 1984 when was the last time that you, together with Troy Canty,
Darrell Caby and Barry Allen committed a crime against another human being?
Witness: When was the last time you got drunk...
[Commotion]
Judge: Jury, disregard that man's statement. That is nonresponsive, ladies and gentlemen of the jury.
The answer is stricken. You will answer the question as asked.
Witness: Judge, take me out of here. I’m tired of this bullshit.
Judge: Mr. Slotnick, you have any further questions?
Slotnick: I do you Your Honor but I think it’s a waste of time. I don’t, I don’t waste the juries time or the
courts time or Mr. Goetz’s time.
Judge: Unless the DA has any further questions.
Waples: I waive, Judge.
Defendant – Mr. Bernhard Goetz
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