ONTARIO
ENERGY
BOARD
FILE NO.:
EB-2005-0449
VOLUME:
1
DATE:
September 20, 2005
BEFORE:
Paul Sommerville
Presiding Member
Cathy Spoel
Member
Cynthia Chaplin
Member
EB-2005-0449
THE ONTARIO ENERGY BOARD
IN THE MATTER OF the Ontario Energy Board Act, 1998,
S.O.1998, c.15, Schedule B;
AND IN THE MATTER OF an Application by Union Gas Limited
for an order or orders approving or fixing just and
reasonable rates for the transmission, distribution and
storage of gas.
Hearing held at 2300 Yonge Street,
25th Floor, West Hearing Room,
Toronto, Ontario, on Tuesday,
September 20, 2005, commencing at 9:30 a.m.
---------Volume 1
---------B E F O R E:
PAUL SOMMERVILLE
PRESIDING MEMBER
CATHY SPOEL
MEMBER
CYNTHIA CHAPLIN
MEMBER
A P P E A R A N C E S
MICHAEL PENNY
Union Gas Limited
JACK GIBBONS
Pollution Probe
ROBERT WARREN
Consumers Council of Canada
RANDY AIKEN
The Wholesale Gas Purchasers
Group
ALICK RYDER
City of Kitchener
DAVID POCH
Green Energy Coalition
MURRAY ROSS
TransCanada PipeLines
JOHN DEVELLIS
Vulnerable Energy Consumers
Coalition
JAY SHEPHERD
School Energy Coalition
BRIAN DINGWALL
Canadian Manufacturers &
Exporters, HVAC Coalition
PETER THOMPSON
Industrial Gas Users
Association
MALCOLM JACKSON
JULIA MCNALLY
Low-Income Energy Network
JOE AMY
Superior Energy Management
TOM ADAMS
Energy Probe
PETER SCULLY
Federation of Northern
Ontario Municipalities,
Cities of Greater Sudbury
and Timmins
I N D E X
Description
O F
P R O C E E D I N G S
Page No.
Appearances
2
Preliminary Matters
3
E X H I B I T S
Description
NO EXHIBITS ENTERED DURING THIS HEARING
Page No.
U N D E R T A K I N G S
Description
Page No.
NO UNDERTAKINGS ENTERED DURING THIS HEARING
1
1
Tuesday, September 20, 2005
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--- Upon commencing at 9:35 a.m.
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MR. SOMMERVILLE:
Please be seated.
Thank you.
I see
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that we have a full house this morning.
The Board has
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convened this morning in the matter of an application
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submitted by Union Gas Limited for the approval of rates
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for the sale, distribution, transmission and storage of gas
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for 2006 pursuant to section 36 of the Ontario Energy Board
9
Act.
The application was filed on July 29th of 2005.
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application has been designated by the Board as filed,
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EB-2005-0449.
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The
My name is Paul Sommerville, and sitting with me are
Ms. Spoel and Ms. Chaplin.
In its notice of application, which was issued on
15
August 26th, 2005, the Board asked parties to be prepared
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to address two questions in today's meeting.
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The first question read as follows:
Does the material
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filed by Union Gas form a sufficient evidentiary basis from
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which to evaluate the company's revenue requirement for
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2006?
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approaches could be used to determine an appropriate rate
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adjustment, if any, for 2006?
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The second question reads:
If not, what alternative
The Board is seeking comment on the potential option
for indexing existing rates for 2006.
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On September 15th, 2005, the applicant filed
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supplementary materials directed to the two questions.
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Board has also received, and I trust all of the other
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parties have also received certain correspondence from
The
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counsel for Pollution Probe and the Green Energy Coalition
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directed to the treatment of DSM issues in the applicant's
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rate proposals.
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The Board intends to hear submissions directed to the
two questions which appear in the notice of application.
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May I have appearances, please?
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APPEARANCES:
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MR. PENNY:
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Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Michael Penny.
I'm attending on behalf of the applicant,
Union Gas Limited.
MR. WARREN:
Robert Warren for the Consumers Council
of Canada.
MR. AIKEN:
Randy Aiken on behalf of The Wholesale Gas
Purchasers Group.
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MR. SOMMERVILLE:
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MR. RYDER:
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MR. SOMMERVILLE:
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MR. POCH:
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Mr. Ryder.
David Poch on behalf of the Green Energy
Coalition.
MR. SHEPHERD:
21
MR. GIBBONS:
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MR. AMY:
Jay Shepherd, School Energy Coalition.
Jack Gibbons, Pollution Probe.
Joe Amy appearing instead of Elisabeth
DeMarco for Superior Energy Management.
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MR. SOMMERVILLE:
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MR. AMY:
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MR. SOMMERVILLE:
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MR. THOMPSON:
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Mr. Aiken.
Alick Ryder for the City of Kitchener.
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My name is
Your last name, sir?
Amy, A-M-Y.
Thank you.
Peter Thompson for the Industrial Gas
Users Association, and with me is Peter Fournier, the
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1
president of IGUA.
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MR. SOMMERVILLE:
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MR. DINGWALL:
Mr. Thompson.
Brian Dingwall for Canadian
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Manufacturers and Exporters.
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present.
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MR. SOMMERVILLE:
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MR. JACKSON:
Malcolm Rowan is also
Mr. Dingwall.
Malcolm Jackson for the Low-Income
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Energy Network, and counsel for this case will be Julia
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McNally.
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MR. SOMMERVILLE:
Thank you, Mr. Jackson.
It is nice
to see you.
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MURRAY ROSS:
Murray Ross with TransCanada Pipelines.
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MR. ADAMS:
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MR. SOMMERVILLE:
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MR. DeVELLIS:
Tom Adams on behalf of Energy Probe.
Mr. Adams.
John DeVellis for the Vulnerable Energy
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Consumers Coalition and with me is James Whiteman from
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Econalysis Consulting.
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MR. SOMMERVILLE:
Mr. DeVellis.
Are there any other
appearances?
MR. SCULLY:
Peter Scully for the Federation of
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Northern Ontario Municipalities, and cities of Greater
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Sudbury and Timmins.
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PRELIMINARY MATTERS:
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MR. SOMMERVILLE:
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Are there any other appearances?
Thank you, Mr. Scully.
As the Board
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reviewed this material, the Panel considered that there has
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not been much of an opportunity for the parties to attempt
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to discuss or attempt to settle the issue.
And the first
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1
thing the Board would like to canvass among counsel and
2
representatives this morning is whether some time spent on
3
that aspect of things over the next hours or day may serve
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a useful purpose.
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Mr. Penny, can I have your thoughts on that subject?
Do you wish to confer first?
MR. PENNY:
Just for one second, Mr. Chairman, if I
8
could.
Yes, Mr. Chairman.
This is an issue that we had
9
also thought about, and Union would be more than happy to
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spend time with the intervenors to discuss the alternative
11
proposal if others think that would be useful.
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MR. SOMMERVILLE:
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MR. WARREN:
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MR. SOMMERVILLE:
Mr. Warren.
I think it makes sense, Mr. Chairman.
Do you have any sense of the
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appropriate amount of time to afford this settlement
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process?
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you know.
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available as an ADR process.
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Mr. Millar and Mr. Schuch available as facilitators,
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according to the wishes of the parties, and then to
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reconvene tomorrow morning to consider whatever outcome
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there may be, or to deal with the submissions in the normal
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course.
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The matter is scheduled today and tomorrow, as
And what was in our mind is perhaps making today
The Board is prepared to make
So that is what is in our mind.
Does that change your
position at all, Mr. Warren?
MR. WARREN:
I was going to suggest, Mr. Chairman,
27
that perhaps a sensible way to do it is if you allow the
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intervenors an hour to see if -- I suspect we can coalesce
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1
into a position or not into a position within an hour.
2
Then if we could thereafter meet with Mr. Penny and Mr.
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Packer and perhaps we could advise you by the noon break
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whether or not there is any realistic possibility of
5
resolving the issues and, if we can, then we can use the
6
balance of the day to try to hammer it out.
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then we can use the balance of the day to make submissions.
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But I would have thought we're either going to arrive at a
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consensus among the intervenors, and then with Mr. Penny by
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the noon break, or we're not.
MR. SOMMERVILLE:
MR. WARREN:
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MR. PENNY:
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You propose that we would adjourn
now, and then reconvene, say, at 1 o'clock?
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If we can't,
Chairman.
I think that makes sense.
I agree with what Mr. Warren has said, Mr.
That makes eminent sense to me.
MR. SOMMERVILLE:
respect to this.
MR. ADAMS:
Are there other submissions with
Mr. Adams?
Mr. Chairman, Tom Adams on behalf of
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Energy Probe.
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that might be of some use.
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in one form with one set of thinking, and then an
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alternative was presented by the utility.
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I've got a slightly alternative suggestion
Union's application came to us
If the utility had anything of a clarification nature
24
to present, any additional discussion beyond what is here
25
or any notes of clarification, it would be useful to have
26
that in advance of any meeting that the intervenors might
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convene.
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It may be that -- I haven't spoken to the applicant
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1
and perhaps I should have, but if they have nothing -- you
2
know, if we're working simply from the documents, I am
3
comfortable with that and I think that is an adequate basis
4
to initiate a discussion amongst the intervenors.
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there was any additional notes or clarification, I would,
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through you, ask to assist us with that.
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MR. SOMMERVILLE:
8
MR. PENNY:
9
But if
Mr. Penny.
Mr. Chairman, I can advise Mr. Adams and
the other intervenors, through you, that there wasn't
10
anything additional that we were proposing to advance in
11
this process, but if we meet with the intervenors or during
12
the course of the intervenor meeting, if there are
13
particular questions they have, we will do our best to
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assist.
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or any additional documents that I have today.
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But there isn't anything -- there is no set piece
MR. SOMMERVILLE:
I'm assuming that the engagement in
17
the process indicates that there may be some willingness to
18
consider alternative proposals, on all sides.
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MR. PENNY:
Quite.
20
MR. SOMMERVILLE:
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MR. THOMPSON:
Are there any further submissions?
Mr. Chairman, I agree with Mr. Warren.
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We should have the intervenors’ meeting first to see if we
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can forge a consensus and that information requirements
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will likely be part of the subsequent meeting with the
25
utility, if it takes place.
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MR. SOMMERVILLE:
Thank you, Mr. Thompson.
The Board
27
will, therefore, adjourn.
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themselves available to the parties according to the wishes
I will ask staff to make
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1
of the parties.
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We will reconvene at 1:00 p.m.
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MR. THOMPSON:
Thank you very much.
Mr. Chairman, is the other room
4
available for the meeting?
5
MR. SOMMERVILLE:
We will have to -- I will ask Mr.
6
Schuch to make enquiries on that score and to certainly
7
facilitate as much as possible making some room available.
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Thank you.
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--- Recess taken at 9:40 a.m.
--- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 2:55 p.m.