Melicha Outline SHIUR TOPIC YOREH DEAH 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 Hadacha Rishona Salted without a Hadacha Rishona The Salting Process The Final Rinsing If Hadacha Achrona was Not Done Masiach L’fi Tumo Meat Cooked Without Being Salted Three Day Old Meat Ta’aruvos of 3-Day Old Meat / Kavush Kli Shaino Menukav Kli Ehaino Menukav / Chalita Ma’ash D’Rashi Salting of Many Pieces of Meat Together Fish and Chicken Salted Together Kosher Meat & Treif Meat Salted Together Meat Salted Next to Other Meat Meat Than Fell into Tzir Meat that Pickled in Tzir Heads, Hooves, Brains The Heart Chaticha Na’aseh Nevaila The Liver Liver with Meat The Spleen; Bnai Mayiim Roasting Meat Roasting Meat Stuffed Chicken with Meat Coating Unsalted Meat Siman 69:1 Siman 69:2 Siman 69:3-6 Siman 69:7 Siman 69:8-9 Siman 69:10 Siman 69:11 Siman 69:12-13 Siman 69:14-15 Siman 69:16-17 Siman 69:18-19 Siman 69:20-21 Siman 70:1 Siman 70:2 Siman 70:3-4 Siman 70:5-6 Siman 70:6 Siman 70:6 Siman 71 Siman 72:1-2 Siman 72:3-4 Siman 73:1-3 Siman 73:4-6 Siman 74; 75 Siman 76:1-2 Siman 76:3 Siman 77 Siman 78 27 PIRCHEI SHOSHANIM Pages 1-9 Pages 11-16 Pages 18-25 Pages 29-33 Pages 36-40 Pages 43-48 Pages 51-57 Pages 59-64 Pages 66-69 Pages 72-77 Pages 81-85 Pages 88-94 Pages 96-101 Pages 103-108 Pages 110-115 Pages 117-124 Pages126-130 Pages 132-138 Pages 141-145 Pages 147-153 Pages 155-158 Pages 161-170 Pages 173-178 Pages 180-184 Pages 186-191 Pages 192-196 Pages 198-205 1 Hadacha Rishona Siman 69 Pages 1-16 Effect of Salt Rosh – only takes blood out Other Poskim – salt also drives the surface blood into the meat (but not simultaneously) SIX OPINIONS ON SALTING Reason for1st Washing If salt left on Salted without 1st washing רא"ה ר"ן Remove blood on surface Remove crusty surface After 12 (or 24) hours meat forbidden Before 12 (or 24) hours permitted י"א סמ"ק Soak to soften meat Remove surface blood, considered דם בעין רא"ש Soften surface to allow blood to easily flow out No effect; Wash and resalt No effect; Wash and resalt Wash and resalt Wash and resalt Forbidden דם בעיןdriven into meat Wash and resalt No need to wash again Creates new surface blood and needs washing No need to wash again; not worried about surface blood Creates new surface blood and needs washing No need to wash again Good Not sufficient Good Not sufficient Good Not sufficient Good Wash and resalt Wash and resalt Wash and resalt Good Wash and resalt If cut meat after washing but before salting Washing superficially Meat 60x greater than surface blood מרדכי Remove surface blood which stops salt from reacting with blood in meat Mechaber: holds like Mordachai Rama: like Mordachai (hefsed m’rubah), concerned about Smak and l’chatchila -concerned about all opinions; meat must be soaked for a half hour Butchers Rinsing -Prisha: don’t need salt meat immediately after soaking; Bach: don’t fear butcher didn’t rinse well -Bach: not afraid that meat got dirty again from the blood in the butcher’s place Chavas Da’as: if rinsing done in slaughter house when meat still warm then soaking isn’t necessary. Shach: if butchers did a good rinsing than a soaking is not necessary Hooves-Rama: hooves removed after washing, need wash again; Shach: hooves not removed, washing good Hadacha Muetes-M’ikar hadin we are worried about blood on the surface of the meat Mechaber: L’catchila wash the surface fairly well, since that is what the butchers did Rama - l’chatchila soak the meat; b’dieved: 1. If did superficial rinsing-it is good enough if now salted; if not salted, then soak a. R’ Akiva Eiger: only enough if already cooked 2. If did a good rubbing-Shach: good enough even if meat not salted (don’t need soak) a. R’ Akiva Eiger: only good enough if was salted 3. Chachmas Adam: in great need, don’t have to soak for 1/2 hour a. wash & scrub meat well, wash until water clear Frozen Meat Shach: cannot salt until defrosted Pri Chadash: can combine the time of salting from before and after the meat was frozen Sifsai Da’as: don’t combine 2 Salted without 1st washing Salted without a Hadacha Rishona Siman 69:2 Pages 11-16 רא"ה ר"ן מרדכי י"א סמ"ק רא"ש Before 12 (or 24) hours permitted No effect; Wash and resalt Wash and resalt Wash and resalt Forbidden דם בעיןdriven into meat Wash and resalt Stam V’Yaish Halacha K’stam Mechaber first says assur and then mutar Rama hefsed m’rubah it is permitted Small Amount of Salt Before Rinsing Rama same halacha Shach says even though might not cook, can roast Two Exceptions Washed superficially and 60 meat against surface blood Washing Not Not Not Good Good Good superficially sufficient sufficient sufficient Meat 60 times Wash and Wash and Wash and Wash and greater than Good Good resalt resalt resalt resalt surface blood Taz & Shach hold that Rama would say mutar b’dieved if salted even if not cooked yet -do not need to wash and resalt R’Akiva Eiger says need to resalt (except for hefsed m’rubah) Halacha like R’ Akiva Eiger Hadacha Rishona with Cold Water Mordachai: cold water hardens meat R’ Akiva Eiger: done with cold water, according to all mutar if washed and resalted Unsalted Meat Salted with Washed Meat Rama: Dam B’ain on unwashed meat will not assur washed meat Pri Megadim explains Dam B’ain dissolves a bit during washing and is not so thick 3 The Salting Process Siman 69:3-6 Pages 18-25 Fine Salt Rambam – fine salt would be absorbed into the meat and would not draw out the blood Rosh - fine salt better because its sticks better and easier to cover the meat Bais Yosef – Rambam only use coarse salt; Rosh even coarse salt can be used Mechaber use salt not too fine and not too course Rama if only have fine salt can use; does not seem to be arguing on the Mechaber Salting on One Side Rashba and Ran b’dieved all right to do just one side Mechaber l’chatchila salt the meat on two sides and b’dieved if salted one side, then mutar Rama: Mutar if great need and cooked if one side salted or if not cooked and w/in 12 hours Lungs Issur V’Heter anything that has cavities must be salted on the inside Taz says to open the chambers; Minchas Yaakov do not have salt on inside Cutting Pieces in Half Shach says do not have to cut a large piece of meat in half to salt Taz says that a head not salted on inside is assur Splitting the Chicken Shach custom not to salt every square inch; enough salt “most” of the area inside chicken Mishb’tvos Zahav – one should split the chicken open -l’chatchila should salt every square inch; -pieces not fully removed (lungs, kidneys) only salted 1 side; only eat hefsed m’rubah Salted Less than 12 Hours Taz: Mutar to resalt the second side because tzir is still coming out Shach: salting second side only helps if the meat was not washed off; Must roast; can’t cook Mishb’tzos Zahav & R’ Akiva Eiger: even side that was salted must be salted again Salted More than 24 Hours Taz: only way to eat meat after 12 hours is to roast (and thus, no case of hefsed m’rubah) Shach: Can be called Hefsed M’rubah to eat cooked; if not hefsed m’rubah then roast -can resalt if between 12 and 24 hours if Hefsed M’rubah R’Akiva Eiger & Nekudas Hakesef: Choshesh that enough blood left to osser salted side Amount of Time to Salt Ba’ha’g: salt for same amount of time it takes to roast Rambam shiur Mil Other rishonim: relative to size and according to how long to roast that particular piece Shiur of a Mil Shach – 18 minutes (Chazan Ish b’dieved) Rambam (PriChadash) 24 minutes Gr’a: 22 ½ minutes (Mishna Breruah Paskins like the Gr’a) Rama: custom to salt meat for 1 hour 4 The Final Rinsing Siman 69:7 Pages 29-33 The Final Washing Tur – meat needs to be rinsed ;יפה יפהtwo times (Rosh) Smak – even one washing suffices to clean the meat Hagos Ashiri – washed three times Rambam – as many times as needed to have water run clear off the meat Shaking and Rinsing Tur: shake off salt prior to washing Rashba: concerned that salt will drive blood back into the meat during washing Rashi: if fine salt do not need to shake Mechaber: final washing done by washing meat off twice; shaking salt does not replace washing Rama: done by washing three times; shaking can be in place of one hadacha The Order of Hadacha Achrona Hold meat in the air, shake it and rinse under running water Then place in vessel filled with water and wash well Take meat out, wash vessel out, refill it with water and wash meat again Washing in Fruit Juice Rama allows for final washing Taz says can be used even for first washing Halacha should use water; -but b’dievved washing permitted with fruit juice 5 If Hadacha Achrona was Not Done Siman 69:8-9 Pages 36-40 L’chathilah one should rinse or shake off the salt before placing it in vessel to wash B’dieved it is mutar and can proceed with washing Salting does not remove blios from vessels, thus does not matter the type of vessel for washing Ch’n’n חתיכה נעשה נבילה Issur cooked with heiter, the entire mixure has din of nevila Mechaber Ch’n’n only applies to basar v’chalav Rama applies to other issurim Issur Davuk issur stuck to the heiter Would need 60 against the entire group Salt not called davuk Mechaber does not hold by issur davuk Only Like the Original אין הנאסר יכול לאסור במקום שהאיסור עצמו יכול לילך שם Salt has the taste of blood and blood can only spread to a maximum of 60 times itself Kli Shaini Rama does not permit; Marashal permits meat the was placed in kli shaini Taz relay b’dieved; Shach only hefsed m’rubah Unsalted Meat Placed in a Kli Rishon Rabbainu Yerucham (Taz): if not on the fire, is mutar and can be salted; Toras Chaim: argues that meat is assur (blood inside will cook) Mnchas Yaakov: mutar in a hefsed m’rubah (like Taz) 6 Masiach L’fi Tumo Siman 69:10 Pages 43-48 Rely on non-Jew to wash off the meat before cooking Smak 1) מסיח לפי תומוspeaking out of innocence 2) יוצא ונכנסA Jew walking in & out; helps due to fear and fastidious about cleanliness Rivah don’t believe at all since can bring in a ( קפילהprofessional non-Jewish cook) Smag – relies on יוצא ונכנסbut not מסיח לפי תומו Minhag Yisrael Bach and Drisha: don’t believe if non-Jew knows minhag Yisrael Taz and Shach: disagree; still believe מסיח לפי תומו L’halacha Safek Hadacha Achrona Shach: Mechaber (Smak) fear of being caught and Jew going in and out Rama one proof is enough Hechser Kalim Mechaber says non-Jew not believed mas’la’t; -chazaka d’issura can’t be broken by mas’la’t -(an issur d’rabbanan without chazaka could be) Taz says a mas’la’t is stonger than a chazaka in case of issur d’rabanan Shach says not stronger unless additional factor (like )קפדי אמקיותא Meliga-Unsalted chicken put into hot water, don’t know if kli shani or kli rishon Mechaber – doesn’t rely on mas’la’t Rama -Pri Megadim: also a case of chazaka of issur; no other factors no mas’lat -Minchas Ya’akov: in this case mas’la’t works (not a case of chazaka issur Did I Salt the Chicken? Taz: rov (most do salt first) overrides the chazakah of blood being present Mishb’tvos Zahav: only permits in hefsed mrubah One Side-Pischai Tshuva if forget if salted second side -even Shach permits since only a small amount of work; rov that did usual routine 7 Meat Cooked Without Being Salted Siman 69:11 Pages 51-57 Meat Cooked in its Own Blood If 60 in pot against the meat, status of food in pot Status of Meat Rosh Mutar Mutar Yesh Omrim Mutar Assur Ravad Measure against blood Mechaber: holds like the Rosh Safsai Da’as: if meat placed on kli sheni, can still be salted Rama: holds like Yesh Omrim to assur the meat except in a hefsed m’rubeh Issur Davuk Blood and salt on the meat is not an issur davuk; what about blood in the meat? 2 ways become an issur davuk - ממהר לבלועthe first place the issur would spread is to what is attached - שמא היה פעם אחת חוץ לרוטבPerhaps piece with issur attached would go above the rotav and then rest of pot could not be mitztaref Taz : 2 reasons 1. Chance blood moved from place to place and now wouldn’t come out 2. Blood “like” an issur davuk; perhaps meat was lifted out of the rotav Mitzb’tzvos Zahav: by an issur d’rabbanan don’t worry about the second reason Shach: only brings first reason; ch’n’n not applicable since the meat did not start out as issur Is the Meat Itself Included?-Can one count the meat against its own blood? Ravad (above) says yes Taz: Ran & Rashba: can count Rambam: since blood is issur d’oraisa, do not include in count Tur & Rosh: blood spreads evenly, meat retains original issur, then do not include -Pri Megadim: only by Kchal lenient Nekudas Hakesef: can’t be counted, since moves before cooking, so assur m’doraisa Pri Chadash: can include (Rashba) Mishb’tzvos Zahav: cannot include (need 60 without piece of meat to be m’vatel) Rama: meat is assur even though 60 against, except in hefsed m’rubeh Hollow Chickens Taz: assur even if 60 against -blood will go out of one side of the chicken to other side prior to being batel Shach: argues on Taz; as soon as comes out, batel in the water Salted on One Side Mishb’tzos Zahav: Mutar if salted on one side and cooked and 60 against - Since Rashba permits meat salted on one side and Rosh permits if 60 against Three Day Old Meat-sat for three days without being salted -Meat hardens and blood does not flow easily -Rama: 3 day old meat treated like meat that was not salted at all -R’ Akiva Eiger: assur even if hefsed m’rubeh since dam she’parush, so issur blood cooked Meat Salted Without a Hadacha Rishona-cooked with 60 against=Assur even in hefsed mrubeh -Can’t use two kula for a hefsed m’rubah; 1.blood stayed in didn’t move, 2.1st wash to soften meat 8 Three Day Old Meat Siman 69:12-13 Pages 59-64 Mechaber: Meat left for three days without salting, can’t salt (blood dried out) -Must roast; can only cook b’dieved after it was roasted Mechaber: If immersed in water once in the three days can be left three days more minus ½ hour -Rama: Meat salted and not sure if salting was within three days=mutar -No direct source for this din Tur: meat sits out for 3 days מעת לעתwithout salting, then hardens; salt will not draw out Rosh: Tzli is stronger than melicha that it will draw out blood from meat -Bishul is stronger than Tzli מליכה אוסרת כדי קליפה צלי אוסרת כדי נטילה בישול אוסרת כדי שישם Three Cases 1. 3-day old meat salted in a כלי מנוקבand then in a כלי אינו מנוקב Rashal (Taz): all that was coming out came out in first salting and 2nd did nothing Nekudas Hakesef: 2nd time gives off a small amount of blood and problem Shach: machmir against Taz in this case 2. 3-day old meat salted in a כלי מנוקבwith other meat that is being salted Taz: Since not giving off blood can absorb from others and won’t carry out Nedudas Hakesef: little bit is enough to say כבולו כך פולטו -Shach: maikil against the Taz Mechaber (Mishb’tzos Zahav): would matir roasting 3-day old meat -since no tzir and it would take out the blood absorbed from other meats Rama: Disagrees with this din 3. If salted in a כלי אינו מנוקבwith other meat that was salted and rinsed Taz: Worried that little blood comes out of 3-day old meat and assurs other meat R’ Akiva Eiger: assurs other meat even in a kli with holes Mishb’tzos Zahav: assurs only in vessel with no holes Reason Case 1 Case 2 Case 3 no holes Salt takes out first time Taz and what is left will not Maikel Machmir assur come out second time Worried salt would draw Shach Machmir Maikel Assur out some blood Salted then Roasted Taz: can now be cooked Minchas Yaakov: can’t be cooked afterwards Pri Megadim: in hefsed m’rubeh can salt, roast half way and then cook Soaking in Water during Three Days Mechaber: enough to soak Mishb’tzos Zahav: soak for a minimum ½ an hour; needs more than simple washing Issur v’Heiter: b’dieved pouring water is enough Taz: Mechaber requires ½ hour in 2nd set of 3 days, in order to soften the meat Mishb’tzos Zahav: b’dieved less than ½ hour before 3rd day Shach: lav davka a ½ hour -Rama (Pri Megadim): should not soak meat l’chatchila to leave for 3 more days 9 Ta’aruvos of 3-Day Old Meat / Kavush Siman 69:14-15 Pages 66-69 Mechaber: 3 day old meat, not salted, mixed with other pieces= batel b’rov (even if r’u’ya l’chabed) Rama: Even if cooked after three days and not salted -Tzli is not a דבר שיש לו צתיריןDSL”M, so we can have bitul -Even though meat is ראויה להתכבדthat which is assur, the blood, is not; can have Bitul Cooked Meat That Got Mixed Up Rama: meat that was cooked without being salted is botal b’rov Shach: only true min b’mino, otherwise 60 is required Nekudas Hakesef: issur d’rabbanan, even min b’aino mino is batul b’rov in yavash b’yavas Unsalted Meat that Got Mixed Up -Taz: then Bitul b’rov Nekudas Hakesef: since could salt all the pieces, then a DSL”M and no Bitul Kavush Taz: Meat that hasn’t been finished salting Shach: Dom B’ain -also maybe not Dom B’ain or dom ha’avarim (like Taz) Rashal: Meat is assur even if 60 Taz: Meat can be salted if 60 Shach: Since water is 60 against it, not worried about Dom B’ain Yalkut Yosef: Dom Kavush is Assur Mid’rabbanan Halacha L’ma’aseh Mechaber: meat left in water, less than 60, for 24 hours can be koshered by Tzli Rama: meat is assur and Tzli can not help Rama: If 60 against, matir even by melicha - Shach: only by Tzli can matir (follow if no Hefsed M’rubah) 10 Kli Shaino Menukav Siman 69:16-17 Pages 72-77 Kli that has holes Mechaber: if has holes, or inclined=salting can be done Rama: must be careful that holes are clear Kli without holes Mechaber: Assur to use for hot food Even with cold food assur to use a kli without holes Rama: If dry, food needs k’dia klipah; If wet, food need 60 against klipah of dish -mutar to use again to salt meat after putting holes in it; or if meat was salted and washed Mechaber two opinions: Assur to use for hot food; or, even for cold foods -Taz: first opinion kli is cold after salt is removed; 2nd holds kli is hot until cooked -R’ Akiva Eiger: both opinions kli is considered cold; -question is whether vessel is assur for cold food without washing (or wiping) Shach: explains Rama -Plate hot and food is dry, take off a klipa; if not completely dry then take off a k’dai ntila Kli Cheres Shach (Rama): Kli Cheres can not be used without washing; other vessels can Others hold: can’t be used even after washing since can’t be koshered (might use for hot) Salting in the Kli Taz: if meat left for 24 hours=assur; pickling transfers blios from the vessel to the food Why not lifgam? -Using a lot of salt makes charif, and a davar charif sweetens the taste for the blios -even after 24 hours and allows them to assur the food Drisha: less 24 hours-food salting in kli should be assur; tzir pickles equal time as hot on fire Taz & Shach: Tzir only has an effect on the food; takes 24 hours to remove blios from a kli A Bowl used for salting=assur for hot food Rosh: vessel without holes; vessel with holes is mutar (blood slides off )מישרק שריק Ran: a vessel with holes- doesn’t hold by blood sliding off מישרק שריק Rabbinu Pertz: a vessel with holes-kli cheres blood absorbed in walls kdai klipa -other vessels=blood slides off and is not absorbed Rama: l’chathila careful w/ both kind of vessels; b’deived food cooked in both kind=Mutar Rashal: l’chathila other vessels Mutar by cooking; kli cheres assur even b’dieved Shach: l’chathila don’t use other vessels for cooking; kli cheres assur b’dieved 11 Kli Ehaino Menukav / Chalita Siman 69:18-19 Pages 81-85 Meat salted in a kli without holes for time it takes to boil water Mechaber: Everything in tzli Assur (even by roasting) Rama: Everything (in tzir and out) is Assur -even if not shiur melicha, but enough time to see tzir -only piece sitting in tzir is assur, not ones on top Salted and Washed Meat in Water Mechaber: Can put in any water; some say put in boiling water Rama: Holds like the first opinion Why is the meat assur when salted in a vessel without holes? Rabbainu Peretz: Even part above tzir is assur because of דם שפירש ממקום למקום Rabbainu Tam: Blood goes out and back into the meat by salty tzir. -Machlokes if entire piece or only that in the tzir is Assur R’ Yehuda M’Bartzalona: meat is not assur until the end of shiur melicha Rosh: part in the Tzir is assur, and only if sat long enough to pickle; -if less time, then assur k’dai kelipa Mehaber: holds like the Rosh; meat assur kdai kelipa above the tzir, even if fatty Rama: holds like Rabbainu Peretz Chalita – quick boil to solidify the meat so the blood does not move Bais Yosef: Rambam holds that salt does not take out all the blood, thus need Chalita Aruch Hashulchan: Rambam if salt on meat more than 36 minutes doesn’t require chalita -custom to leave on for one hour Mechaber 1. Shach: l’chatchila do chalita 2. like most poskim: only 18 minutes to draw all the blood out 3. True not all blood comes out in 18 minutes -but if follow minhag of one hour, safe to assume all blood came out 12 Ma’ash D’Rashi Siman 69:20-21 Pages 88-94 Meat salted for shiur and placed w/out hadacha achrona in vessel w/out holes -vessel filled up with tzir Is blood coming out after shiur melicha? Rashi: only mohhel and not dom Would salt and tzir cause the blood to absorb back into the meat? Tosefos: mohel does not cause dom on the meat to be absorbed and assur the meat Bach: mohel like water and negates the strength of the salt Taz: salt losses its strength Tosefos: dom dries up in the salt; Rosh: its strength has dissipated Mechaber brings A) the above case and B) where meat placed in mohel of other meat Yaish Omrim both cases be careful l’chathila, b’dieved mutur (mohel has din of blood) Rama: brings Tosefos & Ra’aim who disagree with Rashi; (mohel not like blood) -Since tzir comes out after shiur melicha is still hot, assur d’dai klipa immediately Rashal (Taz): if meat is in tzir for zman kavisha (time to pickle in salty liquid), all in tzir = assur If 60 against the tzir, without counting the meat, what about what is in the Tzir? Rashal if 60 times the meat against the tzir (with meat in tzir) = whole piece Mutar R’ Akiva Eiger: even if 60, still assur kdai klipa When salt is drawing out blood -we can be maikil in a hefsed m’rubeh after shiur melicha (it loses its heat) -but when drawing out blood, stays hot all the time The Kli Shach: melicha assurs kli a k’dai kelipa Sifsai Da’as: melicah assurs kli cheres entirely -Minchas Ya’acov: even a kli cheres only assur k’dai kelipa אין מליחה לכלים If milk dish within last 24 hours, then meat is assur; -salt does not remove blood from the kli; but can remove other food blios Cutting Meat Before Hadacha Achrona Mechaber: maikel b’dieved since after shiur melicha the salt is not hot Rama: maikel in a hefsed m’rubeh and seudas mitzvah -Also can cut meat during salting (svora of Nekudas Hakesef) Cutting Meat before Shiur Melicha Rama: meat Mutar to resalt -R’ Akiva Eiger: Why don’t we say Dom B’ain comes out and ossers meat? -Chavas Da’as: Dom that comes out is Dom Plaita (won’t absorb by tzir) Tzli not required L’chatchila Tzir is not Mishrak Sharik Only Dam 13 Salting of Many Pieces of Meat Together Siman 70:1 Pages 96-101 Why mutar to salt two pieces together? Rabbainu Tam: blood slides off מישרק שריקand won’t be absorbed Yesh Mefarshim in Tosefos: tzir being extracted from meat -any absorbed blood will be piggybacked on Tzir and extracted with it R”Y M’Orleans: as long as the veins open, they give off absorbed blood from another piece Tosefos: When giving off tzir, meat will not absorb Need to wait shiur melicha for bottom piece Rabbainu Tam מישרק שריק Maikil Yesh Mefarshim יידי דיפלוט ציר יפלוט מה שבלע Machmir R”Y M’Orleans נקבי פליטה Machmir יידי דטריד דיפלוט ציר לא בלע Maikil unless hadacha Tosefos Maikil achrona done then machmir Rabosav of Rashba: even if no blood or tzir left in the meat, salting will remove absorbed blood Reasoning Blood collected in pocket of meat Machmir Maikil Maikil Halacha Mechaber: holds like Tosefos; B’dieved: Rabosav of Rashba Rama: concerned about Rabainu Tam l’chathila Taz: Rama=Yesh Mefarshim; must wait another shiur melicha for the bottom piece Shach: Rama=Tosefos; bottom piece does not have to wait another shiur melicha Salting Twice-Rosh: salt only takes out blood; Other Rishonim: salt will also absorb Taz: Rama says Mutar, since tzir is coming out the meat, it will not absorb the blood -Mishb’tzos Zahav: main reason כבולעו כך פולטו -Chavas Da’as: nature of salt to take out and absorb simultaneously If salt put on after 24 hours without hadacha achrona Taz: assur the meat since no tzir coming out Shach: mutur since only dom b’ain can be absorbed Minchas Yaakov: only a little blood on surface and slides off Sifsai Da’as: maikil (Shach) 14 Fish and Chicken Salted Together Siman 70:2 Pages 103-108 Fish salted and Chicken unsalted-both mutar Fish on top, both Salted-Rama: Fish is mutar (blood doesn’t spread upwards) Fowl quickly finishes giving off all its tzir; becomes eligible to absorb the blood of the chicken In a vessel with holes, the fish is assur Rashi: only the fish; force of tzir from chicken prevents blood from fish coming into chicken Rashbam (Rosh): chicken also assur; tzir goes into fish, mixes and become treif, goes into chicken -No ch’n’n by Tzir; so why assur? -Even if chicken absorbs treif tzir, only actual issur (blood) assures; won’t absorb blood -How does chicken blood come out of the fish? Mechaber: chicken is mutar and fish is assur kdai kelipa Rama: whole fish is assur unless 60 times the size of the chicken Fish on Top Nature of blood not to spread upwards -Shach: blood does spread upwards k’dai klipa -Minchas Yaakov: by meat in rotav; cut kdai klipa on part above the rotav -not able to cut exactly at the tzir line; does not apply to salting fish with meat -Rama: machlokes Shach and Minchas Yaakov if fish is assur k’dai klipah If the Fish was not Salted-Can the chicken blood piggyback out when the fish is now salted? Rama: chicken blood can piggyback on top of the fish blood Mechaber: disagrees; 4 reasons (Taz) 1. Once fish has name “assur” can not become mutar 2. Fish blood not same as meat blood; more like tzir; not thick enough to push out 3. Fish finishes giving off tzir before 18 minutes; leaves behind chicken blood a. Chicken blood takes more than 18 minutes 4. Chicken blood permeates fish flesh in such a way that can not come out with the fish blood -Vilna Gaon: agree with Rama -Yalkut Yosef, Kaf HaChaim, Mishb’tzos Zahav: agree with Taz (Mechaber) Is Eating Meat that was Salted with Fish Hazardous to One’s Heath? -Not when salted together, only cooked or eaten together 15 Kosher Meat & Treif Meat Salted Together Siman 70:3-4 Pages 110-115 Kosher Meat and Treif Meat Salted Toghether-(even if kosher meat not salted) -Kosher Meat assur k’dai klipah (only absorns treif tzir) Salted Kosher Meat with Non-salted non-kosher meat Mixed together -mutar by washing off (both kosher on top or bottom); only at a distance where tzir can reach meat - Some say: Osser if Side by Side -Rama: If treif salted and kosher unsalted; kosher piece is assur Kosher or Non-Kosher Piece Fatty-Entire kosher piece assur if treif piece salted and on bottom Three different cases from Gemora 1. Case of kosher meat (fish) and treif meat (fish) salted together and both were salted 2. Case of kosher meat (fish) salted and the treif meat (fish) was not salted 3. Case of treif meat (fish) was salted and the kosher meat (ish) was not salted Case One: Nature of Tzir -Ravan: kosher meat does not absorb treif tzir during the shiur melicha -Ravyah: tzir thinner and can pass through blood -meat absorbs tzir while giving off blood; immediately treif -Mechaber holds like the Ravyah; kosher meat immediately assur kdai klipa Case Two: Power of Salted Meat -Shach: tzir=“hot”; treif tzir will go into kosher meat by salted treif and unsalted kosher -Kosher meat salted and treif not salted: kosher meat is not treif (Rashba): 1. Only a little Tzir given off by treif; easily pushed off by kosher tzir 2. Salted kosher meat would not heat up treif unsalted piece -Rashba & Rosh: maikel by meats touching -Ran: machmir; only mutar if tzir touches and not meat -Mechaber: maikel; requires washing off if salty kosher touches unsalty non kosher -Rama: only maikel in event of small financial loss Case Three: Salty Tzir -tzir=“hot”; goes from salted treif meat to unsalted kosher meat; maikel b’hefsed m’rubeh Tata Gavar: The Strongest One Wins -Two lean pieces: 1 treif & 1 kosher, salted side by side, or stacked=kosher assur kdai klipa -One is fatty=kosher piece assur until 60 if: -Kosher taful (not salted) and the treif one on the bottom and salted -Both salted, even if kosher one on bottom -Salted Treif on the bottom -Heats up the top piece up to 60; doesn’t matter if either one is fat or both or lean -Salted Treif on Top -If salted and resting on top, botoom kosher meat assur kdai klipa -Salted Kosher on the Bottom -won’t heat up the treif unsalted upper piece; needs a general washing Mechaber: agrees with above (does not say Tata Gvar) Rama: regardless of position or fattiness, always use 60 for Melicha 1. Only Hadacha cools off meat; salty piece can’t be cooled off by a taful piece 2. We are not experts between fatty and lean 3. We are concerned for the Ran (machmir if meats touch) a. (R’ Akiva Eiger: small hefsed Rama is maikel) 16 Meat Salted Next to Other Meat Siman 70:5-6 Pages 117-124 -Yaish Omrim: Don’t leave meat sitting w/out Hadacha Achrona 12 hours (blood in tzir go back in) -Yaish Matrin: Can leave sitting w/out Hadacha Achrona for a few days -L’chatchila machmie, b’dieved maikel -Yaish Osrim: Meat that has no blood or meat hasn’t been salted next to meat that is still salting -afraid will absorb blood; some matir if salt afterwards -Rama: ossur meat with no tzir or blood of own if contacts with meat during shiur melicha -if still satling after 12 hours and no Hefsed Merubah=Assur -Rama: fell into tzir after it has been salted=Assur; hefsesd merubah=maikel if less 12 hours -Rama: Dom Ba’ain fell onto meat being salted=assur -can’t say “won’t absorb while gives off tzir” or “just like it absorbs will give off” -Rama: when meat falls into tzir, only that which is in Tzir is Assur; outside of tzir=mutar -Rama: meat fell into tzir puddle on floor=same din as meat fell into tzir in a kli -Rama: Meat contacts w/ meat that is assur due to resting in kli w/out holes=din of meat fell into tzir -Rama: Safek Tzir/Safek Water=liquid is mutar (liquid will not assur meat, Tzir issur m’drabbanan) -Rama: Water in tzir makes tzir NOT HOT -Rashba: salting meat after 12 hours, the amount of tzir left is minimal - worried little bit of tzir on the surface carry blood back into the meat -assur kdai klipa (according to those machmir again Ma’ase d’Rashi) -Rosh: (holds like ma’ase d’Rashi) meat can stand an unlimited time with hadacha achrona -Shach: even those that are strict, would be maikel for 3 reasons 1. All the blood fell away because of מושרק שריק 2. Liquid on surface of meat is only meat juices 3. Salt no longer hot after is extracts blood from meat -Taz: tzir b’ain in order to mix with salt to make it hot enough to drive blood back into the meat 1. Meat never salted absorbs blood from a piece of meat being salted 2. Blood extracted from meat before meat absorbed new blood from a piece now being salted. -Ran: salt only removes meat’s natural blood not another piece’s blood -can salt together since when giving off doesn’t absorb -Rabainu Yonah & Rashba: meat w/ own blood will piggyback out any other absorbed blood -but if blood all gone, then salt would not take out other absorbed blood -Rabbainu Tam: blood slides off meat and not absorbed; both never salted or its blood is all gone -Rabosov of the Rasha (Bais Yosef): salt always removes blood No Blood in Meat anymore-Shach: No Blood means either washed out or no blood or tzir (Ran) Salting after absorbed blood -Shach: only Unsalted Piece absorbed blood; Aruch Hashulcan: salted or unsalted piece -Mechaber: Shach & Taz: must resalt meat; Aruch Hashulchan & Biur Hagra: mutar w/out salting Three Cases – Six Stages Case One: Meat in contact with other meat being salted Meat that did not have a first washing Meat that did have a first washing Meat during shiur melicha Meat salted between shiur melicha and 12 hours Meat salted between 12 and 24 hours Meat salted for more than 24 horus Shach: mutar b’deived Mutar because of כבולו כך פלוטו Shiur 13, can be washed and resalted Taz: mutar w/ a 2nd washing then melicha Shach: mutar (don’t wash or do melicha, won’t absorb) Rama: Mutar hefsed m’rubeh; Rashal: mutar b’deived Rama: Assur immediately even by roasting Mechaber: meat can be resalted 17 Meat Than Fell into Tzir Siman 70:6 Pages126-130 Unsalted Meat fell into Tzir-Rama: Mutar -Same goes for meat that is partially salted; as long as not sitting for 24 hours Pickling in Tzir -Rosh: pickling in Tzir happens quickly, because salty; like cooking -if less than shiur kevisha, then assur kdai klipa Sitting Less than 24 hours: -First reason of Shach-can be resalted (kavush b’tzir is not exactly like cooking; still gives off) -Second reason of Shach: can’t be resalted (this is a case of a kli that has holes; tzir draining slowly) Sitting more than 24 hours- everyone says can not resalt After 18 Minutes -Rashal: Only tzir left so can’t say won’t absorb -Rama: if only tzir, still will carry out blood, so won’t absorb Less than 18 Minutes-Rama: Whatever is sitting in tzir is assur -Maharshal: if leess than 18 minutes (shiur Melicha) then only assur klipah -Shach: agrees with Rama; by melicha need 60, and tzir has din of melicha; everything in tzir assur Case Two: Meat fell into a vessel with holes that has tzir slowing draining Sifsai Da’as: tzir won’t make absorb dom b’ain Meat that did not have a first washing Pri Meadim: maikel l’chavod orchim Dagul Meravavah: mutar in a hefsed mrubeh Taz: Assur (pickled & blood not coming out) Rashal: can be resalted Meat that did have a first washing Mutar B’dieved by both Sifsai Da’as: Hefsed Merubah rely on Shach Rashal: wash off and resalt; small amount of blood left in will carry out all absorbed during kavush (sifsai da’as) Meat during shiur melicha Taz: meat is assur Shach: meat can be resalted, but must be washed Rama: assur immediately & also what is in the tzir Meat that has been salted, Rashal: in the tzir=assur kdai klipa; but between shiur melicha and 12 hours but meat can not be resalted (tzir won’t carry out blood) Meat immediately assur Shach: everything in the tzir assur, even hefsed merubah Meat salted, Rashal: assur klipa if not in tzir for shiur kvisha But between 12 and 24 hours Taz: Meat can be resalted in hefsed merubah Sifsai Da’as: Taz assurs for meat salted over 12 hours Rama: machmir; everything in tzir is assur immediately Meat salted for more than 24 horus Rashal: after pickled meat=assur; before pickled assur kdai klipa 18 Meat that Pickled in Tzir Siman 70:6 Pages 132-138 Case Three: Meat fell into Vessel without holes that has Tzir in it Shach & Taz: Not assur Meat that did not have a first washing Mechaber, Rama: Not assur even klipa Mishb’tzos Zahav: only if doesn’t sit shiur k’visha Remove before 18 minutes; can salt to take out tzir Meat that did have a first washing After 18 minutes, machlokes If meat touches bottom then immediately a case of salting a vessel without holes (Shiur 10) Meat during shiur melicha Chavas Daas: meat did’nt fall to the bottom; meat in tzir=assur, meat above=mutar Meat that has been salted, If less than shiur k’visha, then same as above #4 but between shiur melicha and 12 hours If more than shiur k’visha, then Rama assures all Meat immediately assur Shach: everything in the tzir assur, even hefsed merubah Meat salted between 12 and 24 hours Rashal: assur klipa if not in tzir for shiur kvisha Taz: Meat can be resalted in hefsed merubah Sifsai Da’as: Taz assurs for meat salted over 12 hours Rama: machmir; everything in tzir is assur immediately Meat salted for more than 24 horus Rashal: after pickled meat=assur; before pickled assur kdai klipa No Flow Meat fell into tzir during shiur melicha; 3 scenarios: 1. A vessel with holes: entire piece is mutar 2. A vessel with holes but the tzir is not draining: only part in tzir is assur 3. A vessel without holes: entire piece is assur It Fell on the Floor -Issur V’heter: uncertain if floor like a vessel with holes or without holes -if like with holes then everyone says all mutar; if no holes, Rama says all is assur -Shach: if after shiur melicha=assur; if not salted=mutar; if in middle=assur kdai klipa -Kraisi: fell on a floor which is dirt or stone floor; cobblestone, like a vessel without holes -Aruch HaShulchan: completed tiled floor is like a vessel with holes Safek Tzir Safek Water Shach: By case of meat on floor not maikel since concerned about permitting if fell into blood -This case can be maikel since maybe a liquid that is not tzir Negating the Tzir-Rama: small amount of water mixed with Tzir won’t make assur Shach: says Rama means must be mostly water to negate Tzir R’ Akiva Eiger: each case must be decided by how the Rav sees it 19 Heads, Hooves, Brains Siman 71 Pages 141-145 Heads -Head split in two and salted on both sides and hair does not interfere (Rashba) -If hair does not prevent, why salt on both sides? -Rashba allows salting on one side, why matter if hair does not prevent, still salted inside? -Bais Yosef: split open to allow blood inside to come out; l’chatchila need to salt both sides -Shach & Taz: preffered method to split head open, but not required (can make hole) -Mishb’tzos Zahav: preffered since a hole needs to face down to allow flow -maybe hair does impede the salting (but first is correct, since hair does not impede) -Tshuvas Bais Yaakov: must split head before salting; required m’ikar hadin (argue Shach & Taz) -Pische Teshuva: disagrees; even though blood collects, it can still be drained (like heart) Hoofs Mechaber: if foot salted upright with the hoof, the foot and meat in the hoof are mutar Rama: says hoof assur, but rest of foot mutar Shach: the part of the foot that is in the hoof is assur; rest mutar, even if upright Brains If no hole, then two issurim when salting the head with the brain: 1. Krum assur due to blood vessels 2. Brain becomes assur because it is being salted in a place without holes Mechaber: by roasting we can say nostrils are like holes if placed on bottom -Shach: only helps by roasing; by salting need a hole -Sifsai Da’as: brain and krum have more blood than other places; need hole for blood to drain -If roasted, don’t need hole; since fire is stronger that melicha Rest of the Head Rama: Rest of head Mutar -Shach says two reasons: 1. Skull separates brains from rest of the head 2. Even if a little blood comes out we can say k’bolo kach polto -Sifsai Da’as: holds like first reason -bring machlokes re: what interferes with blood coming out of brain when not split -Rosh: Krum interferes with salting process -Ran: bones interfere Marrow-Rama: anything with marrow, kulis and bones, must be salted -Bones do not have much blood in them -Mutar if has 60 against marrow; even though usually since doesn’t have blood not mutar in 60 20 The Heart Siman 72:1-2 Pages 147-153 If one eats a kezais of blood of the heart then subject to kares -Salted or Roasted without opening, open heart; cooked=can’t open Two bloods in the heart after death: blood of the heart and blood drawn into the heart Rama: Even if 60 heart assur inlucind klipa meat around heart -some strict about meat salted with heart (blood in heart is Dom B’ain) -Darchai Moshe: custom don’t cook the heart; might cook without cutting open and osser meat -many people still cook and eat the heart Marashal (Taz): meikel L’halacha: minhag to permit cooking heart without roasting (Pri Megadim & Chavas Da’as) Nature of a Heart Why can one empty the heart after cooking? -Rashi: heart is smooth and does not absorb the blood -Rabbainu Tam: Only by roasting blood in the heart isn’t being absorbed (Bais Yosef) -during cooking, blood is absorbed and does not come out so heart assur Melicha and Tzli -By dom b’ain, we don’t say k’bolo kach polto. Shach gives three reasons: Kula Chumra Some blood will go into the Dom b’ain fell on heart Any meat salted or heart, but only absorbs a small during milecha/ tzli, only roasted with the heart amount and therefore treat as small amount absorb becomes assur from dom plaita (Toras Chatas) (kbolo koch polto) dom b’ain in the heart Blood in the chambers dries up Since dom plaita, does If dom b’ain fell on there and has din of dom plaita not assur other meat heart then assur (Maharai) being salted together when comes out Heart smooth and does not Doesn’t absorb dom Pri Megadim: meat absorb, applies to tzli and b’ain at all; other meats pieces become assur if melicha, but not bishul roasted or salted with it salted or roasted w/ (Ramban) do not become assur heart (Dom B’ain) -Sifsai Daas: Maharai is the primary reason but concerned for all the reasons Bishul -Taz: according to Rambam, Bishul is Mutar if heart is cooked after salting -Tur: if heart is cooked without being cut open, then need 60 against the heart -Maharshal & Taz: this case of not salted needs 60 against entire heart -salted 60 only against the cavities; -Shach: still need 60 against entire heart; Why? -Issur V’heiter: if salted, but not opened, then blood did not go out (like salting one side) -Shach: can not measure how much blood in cavaties, so need 60 against whole heart -Mechaber talking about a heart that has not been salted, so need 60 against whole heart (shach) -Chavas Da’as: not opened then need 60 against heart and cavities, opened 60 against heart Davuk-Rama: assur even if 60; -Shach: reason assur because blood dries inside; not because of davuk since heart is smooth Not Davuk- Need 60 need whole heart: 1) remove heart from gravy and cooked 2) absorbs quicker Rama: Remove klipa from Meat that Surrounds the Place Heart is Attached to -Shach: Remove klipah, even if not davuk to the piece it was salted with (halacha like Shach) -Minchas Yaacov: only where the heart is davuk is assur klipa -Yad Ephraim: Heart smooth; blood will not go into the heart, but out of heart into meat 21 Chaticha Na’aseh Nevaila Siman 72:3-4 Pages 155-158 Chicken Mechaber: No chicken has less than 60 against the heart; mutar even if heart davuk to chicken Rama: If part of chicken need 60 against entire chicken (Ch’N’N) Mechaber: lungs don’t need to be opened; larger cavitites should be opened Chaticha Na’aseh Nevaila Mechaber: do not say ch’n’n by shaar issurim; need 60 against issur, not entire piece Rama: does say ch’n’ by shaar issurim and entire piece is the issur (even by issurai d’rabanan) Efshar L’esochato -blios absorbed in piece spread to point don’t give taste to original piece; still original piece assur Rama: Original piece remains assur, even if 60 against Mechaber: does not hold by Ch’n’n by shaar issurim or by Issur Davuk, -but machmir by Efshar L’sochato Rama: machmir by Efshar L’sochato, Issur Davuk and Ch’N’N by Sha’ar Issurim -R’ Akiva Eiger: Halacha only applies if heart not salted -heart salted even without opening, then blood in heart’s cavity is not issur davuk -a whole pot can mitztaref to mevatel the heart 22 The Liver Siman 73:1-3 Pages 161-170 Yalta to Rav Nachman: Whatever Torah forbade, Torah also permitted. -Blood is assur, but liver is mutar (Rashi: liver is solidified blood, has the taste of blood) 1. Liver’s blood is kavush (congealed) and considered dom she’lo parush 2. Karbonos: permitted all which is not burnt on the Alter to be eaten Kovaid Osseres V’aino N’esseres Rabeinu Tam: Liver’s blood completely mutar; salting extracts all the blood -Is there a gezeira forbidding the cooking of unsalted liver or not? Rashi: must do melicha (since dam sheparush from liver); Does melicha take out all blood Chalita/Boiling Only way to cook liver is to boil; don’t boil, blood comes out through cooking and assur m’doraisa Shaluk -something cooked for a long time If liver cooked too long and finished giving off blood and would start to absorb blood and be Assur Symponos -Blood in liver=Mutar, but blood in symponos is assur. -To Roast symponos needs to be slit opened, so blood won’t collect; can cut before or after b’dieved -Tosefos: don’t need to be cut sh’si v’airev if roasting and eating; but if cooking it, need to cut -Rambam: To roast symponos don’t need to open; for melicha it would not help. -For chalita, they should be opened Halacha: -Rambam: if liver cooked by itself=Assur if tzli or chalita not done -Tur: holds like Rashi; but do not know difference between shaluk and bishul (Bais Yosef) -Mechaber – L’chatchila holds like Rashi that liver should be koshered by tzli and the symponons should be opened sh’si v’airev Rama: 2 cases where sh’si v’airev is not required 1) If many holes were made; 2) If the gall bladder was removed with some of the liver -Rashal: Making holes or removing the gall bladder isn’t enough still need sh’si v’airev -Taz: Sh’si V’airev sufficient for chicken’s liver -Mishb’tzos Zahav: minhag by chicken’s liver enough to remove gall blader -Shach: b’dieved if want to cook after roasting one can make holes before roasting -l’chathila, do Sh’si V’airev before roasting; but can also cut out gall bladder -Chavas Da’as: liver of a b’haima must be cut sh’si v’airev if wish to cook it (chicken ok) B’dieved-Liver Cooked without Salting Mechaber: 1) mutar since gives off blood, but doesn’t absorb; 2) liver itself assur (Rambam) Rama: even if salted and cooked=assur, since don’t know difference between shaluk & bishul Halacha Lema’aseh M’ikar haDin: hold like Rabbainu Tam that dom kovaid is mutar mid’oraosa -blood is assur m’drabbanan; even if liver was salted, do not permit liver to be cooked Kaf HaChaim: liver cut and salted before cooking=mutar b’dieved Askenzaim: even hefsed m’rubeh=assur; Shach: if rav permits after cut, salted and cooked=mutar Chalita-Rif: No experts in boiling, must roast Mechaber: B’dieved boiled and cooked w/ other meat= mutar; -Rama: Boiled then cooked=assur; 2 reasons: 1) lots blood=assur b’dieved-Kula=meat chalita & cook=mutar; Chumra: no roast liver after chalita 2) chalita doesn’t change status-kula=boil liver b’dieved roast; Chumra: meat boil then cook=assur Open Symponos After Tzli-Liver gives off so much blood that won’t absorb symponos’ blood Pri Chadash: Mechaber: roasting liver need to cut sh’si OR airev; cook liver after roasting need both Mishb’tzos Zahav: cook liver after roasing, must cut sh’si v’airev;want to roast the liver, no cutting 23 Liver with Meat Siman 73:4-6 Pages 173-178 Liver Roasted w/ Meat in Oven with Top Opening -Mechaber: Roast Liver under meat; B’dieved Mutar if liver roasted over meat -Roasting on skewer: Assur to roast liver together with meat -Rama: Salted Liver Mutar to Roast over meat; like roasting meat over meat Salting Liver -Mechaber: Do not salt liver over meat; can salt liver under meat -Rama: Custom is not to salt liver at all; If liver fixed on a skewer or placed on grill, lightly salt -Mecahber: if liver salted by itself; or over piece of meat=Mutar -some say: if around liver is assur k’dai klipah if davuk to chicken (general chumra) -custom to wash liver after roasting because blood davuk; if didn’t wash still Mutar -Rama: Remove klipah around liver (general custsom) -Mechaber: roast chicken w/ liver everything Mutar; if cooked with live, need 60 against liver -Rama: Chicken doesn’t have 60 against liver; if liver whole will cause chicken to be Ch’N’N -Need 60 from rest of pot -Liver not attached to Chicken: Everything in pot can mitztaref to mvatel liver; liver assur Stuffed Chicken-Stuffed with Eggs and heart or liver found -Considered as if Chicken cooked Davuk; need 60 in chicken against issur, don’t include stuffing -eggs harden and prevent blood from being dispersed Roasted the Chicken with stuffing made of meat and heart or liver found -Mechaber: same as chicken roasted with liver; Meat doesn’t prevent blood from spreading evenly Roasing Liver Above Meat -Maramir: Mutar Roast Liver and utter under meat; mutar b’dieved over meat -Rashi: Mutar roast liver under meat if skewer is vertical (don’t say Kbolo Kach Polto) -B’dieved can say Mishrak Sharik to matir Meat on bottom if roasted with liver Liver Salted-Rama: Mutar to roast over meat Taz: Can be roasted side by side or on top, but not below meat; blood from meat goes into liver -Shach: Can roast salted liver under meat; even though liver doesn’t have own blood, won’t absorb Salting Liver w/ Meat -Shach: Meat not yet salted; If meat salted=Assur; -Rashba: Can’t salt salt even w/ salted meat; too much blood in liver Liver Roasted & Cooked w/out Hadacha Rishona-Shach: dom kovaid only assur Mid’Rabbanan Roasting Liver with Meat -Shach: Cook Meat after Roasting w/out removing klipah=muar even w/out 60, don’t remove klipah -Sifsai Da’as: klipah mutar; so don’t say in all cases klipah became assur cooked only klipah assur Cooking Liver with Meat-Rama: Even if 60 against the liver, liver is Assur -Taz: Toras Chatas: liver Mutar: 1) liver gives off blood, won’t absorb; 2) chumra meat assur to 60 -Mishb’tzos Zahav: Why liver not assur since blood moves from place to place? 2 answers: -1) Liver’s blood assur mid’rabbannan; 2) liver all blood, no place to go to Egg Stuffing-Liver detached from chicken pressed against walls of eggs -Rashal: davuk since Rotav can’t reach; eggs absorb so assur; eggs hard won’t absorb at all -Rashal: liver detached from chicken, stuffing assur; even 60 in chicken; liver davuk stuffing -Rama: stuffing does mitztaref to chicken as 60 against liver if liver not attached to chicken 24 The Spleen Siman 74 Pages 180-184 Spleen Mechaber: even though bloody appearance (from color of fat) still same laws as meat -don’t need cut open, no somponos; chailev and krum need to be removed Kidneys and Testicles -Rama: Can’t cook Kidneys and testicles; too much blood; b’dieved not worried -Mutar to salt spleen, kidneys and testicles w/ meat; as long as chailev and krum removed -can’t be koshered by salting -Bais Rosef (Rokeach): kidneys can’t be koshered by salting -Issur V’heter: same applies to baitzai zachar -Bais Yosef: can be salted; Darchei Moshe: b’dieved if salted and cooked=mutar Bani Mayiim (Innards) -Mechaber: Cook w/out Roasting=Mutar, if don’t become red (little blood after fat removed) -Rama: Mutar if salted in Kli w/out holes; l’chatchila salt in kli w/ holes and do hadacha rishona -some say keres & stomach’s chambers have blood; assur b’dieved salted in kli w/out holes -Mechaber: Fat around innards have din of meat; don’t salt intestines on inside; salt fat on outside -Rama: Intestines cooked after salted on inside treif w/ unsalted fat; not cooked, salt on outside Eggs Found in Chicken -Need to salt if found during yoke stage of development; salt eggs w/ meat - white stage complet, shell hard=salt eggs, but not with meat; b’dieved salted w/ meat=Mutar Bnai Mayim w/out Fat-Mutar to salt w/ meat -Rama: L’chatchila don’t salt with meat; b’dieved Mutar to salt with meat Fat of Entrails on Intestines -Some osser to cook even if opened and salted, because marbled with veins; remove veins=mutar What is counted as Innards? -Rashi: includes the קיבה וכרס Ran: agrees to Rashi; bnai mayiim little blood; nothing comes out during cooking -Mordechai & Ran: hold the כרסis not included -Taz & Shach: Kurkaban counted as Innards, but has din of meat Rama: salt bnai mayiim l’chatchila in Kli Menukav -Shach & Taz: hold bnai mayiim in and of themselves do not need salting -impossible to completely remove the shuman; shuman requires salting -Levush (Mishb’tzos Zahav): bnai mayiim require salting; some blood will come out during salting -even though 60 against blood, to cook without salting would m’vatel issur l’chatchila Shuman -Taz & Shach: mutar salt shuman on intensine’s outside (not on inside) l’chathila, not much blood -Taz can salt on the outside if already salted on inside Cooked with 60-Rama: meat cooked w/out salting=assur Toras Chatas: if 60 against the shuman, shuman Mutar if cooked bnai mayiim w/out salting Shach: Shmuan Mutar B’dieved: 1) Shuman dissolves instantly into the pot and spreads equally throughout the pot 2) Shuman’s blood not visiable to the eye; don’t worry about issur davuk (only chumra) -Hold like Mechaber that food in pot will mevatel the taste of blood Eggs -Taz, Shach and Rashal: argue on Rama; eggs assur if salted with meat -Eggs don’t give off tzir and thus can absorb; shells are porous (more than kli cheres) Bnai Mayiim mutar even though salted w/ meat, even though less blood-2 reasons: 1) Blood from the meat slides off; Mishrak sharik 2) Bnai mayiim give off tzir, so won’t absorb 25 Roasting Meat Siman 76:1-2 Pages 186-191 -Mechaber: Don’t need salt Meat if Roasted; blood drops on roasting meat, assur k’dai n’tila -Meat can be salted without washing if roasting; some say only if roasting immediately -if meat resting with salt on it, salt absorb blood and be assur, do hadacha before roasting -Rama: Kashering by Tzli requires Hadacha Rishona; Meat should be lightly salted -custom: On skewer, lightly salt and wash; roast immediately before blood fills salt -if Roasing without wash and meat not salted or salted without washing=Mutar -if didn’t sit for shiur melicha w/out washing; sat for shiur melicha before roasting assur -Rama: No difference if roasting fowl that has a cavity; as long as not stuffed with eggs or meat -if stuffed with eggs or meat, din of being cooked, fowl should be salted before roasting -Rama: Roasting meat w/out salting: don’t turn spud (let fire draw blood); B’dieved mutar -halacha same whether eaten roasted or cooked afterwards -Meat considered roasted when fit to eat -Tzli needs hadacha after roasting (some blood left in); b’dieved mutar -Meat salted before roasting and roasted without hadacah achronoa=mutar (blood on salt drawn into fire) Extracting Blood by Tzli -Meat can be eaten raw (schected on Shabbos) until the blood moves - Tosefos, Rosh, Ran: roasted meat does not need salting (blood doesn’t move) (Mechaber) -Not completely roasted Mutar; even though blood moves, not assur until comes out of meat -Rashi: should be salted slightly first -Shach: according to Mechaber if meat is roasted don’t need hadacha rishona K’dai Klipa / K’dai Natlia -Drop of blood falls on to meat -Mechaber: While roasting drop assures k’dai n’tila -Rama: melicha and more so tzli assurs up to 60 Even 60 melicha/tzli, where drop fell assur k’dai kelipa or n’tila; 2 reasons (Mishb’tzos Zahav): 1) Don’t know difference between lean and fat perhaps did not spread 2) Impossible that an imprint was not made at point of contact, even thought it spread later Hadacha Rishona – Hadacha Achrona Mechaber: tzli don’t need to do hadacha rishona; sat for a while in salt, need wash before roasting Mishb’tzos Zahav: do hadacha rishona if immediately placing on grill (salt cause absorb dom b’ain) Rama: argues on 2 points: 1) tzli needs hadacha rishona; 2) l’chathila needs light salting (per Rashi) -b’dieved Rama agrees with Mechaber that don’t need to do hadacha rishona Rama: If sat for more than shiur melicah without hadacha rishona without being roasted=assur -Taz: meat salted without hadacha rishona assur immediately even for tzli (Rashal & Rama) -hefsed m’rubeh: can even be roasted or even resalted for cooking -Shach: b’dieved meat can be roasted if salt did not sit for shiur meclicha; 2 reasons: 1) Surface blood is not true dom b’ain 2) Since did not sit for shiur melicha, the blood was not driven into the meat with force -Minchas Yaakov: agrees mutar since lightly salted and roasted before shiur melicha -not enough of a reason to permit resalting for cooking -Custom: hadacha rishona before tzli, lightly salt on grill; hadacha achrona 3x, even if don’t salt -if no Hadacha Rishona or Hadacha Achrona=Mutar 26 Roasting Meat Siman 76:3 Pages 192-196 -Mechaber: assur eat chicken roasted whole if jugular veins not cut; roast chicken piece by piece -assur eat chicken uncooked not cut up and salted -if remove veins: eat unsalted and uncooked or roasted whole -Machmir: don’t eat chicken roasted whole unless cut jugular veins and 1/2 esophagus & windpipe Knife Used to Cut while Roasting -Don’t cut unsalted meat unless roasted enough to be edible (knife will absorb blood) Shpud Used to Roasted Unsalted Meat=Assur -Some Say: Assur leave meat on shpud after roasting (meat will absorb blood from shpud) -Minhag: Meat Mutar in above cases -Rama: L’chatchila don’t, but Meat mutar B’dieved Rotary Grill-Rama: W/ Unsalted meat, don’t continuously turn Shpud -to avoid the meat remaining in the meat rather than being drawn into the fire; B’deived is mutar -Sifsai Da’as: Makes distinction between turning once in a while and continuously Electricity -Yad Ephraim: heat of a fire (fire extinguished) can draw out the blood -Igros Moshe: permits meat/liver to be koshered on an electric grill; even if heat coming from above Ground Meat -meat ground w/ hadacha rishona, kasher by tzli (b’dieved meat mutar w/out firsr or last washing) -no distinction about size of the meat -due to Mishraek sharik & Mishav Sha’ive, blood won’t move to other pieceswhile roasting Knife and Shpud -Mechaber: l’chatchila cut the meat with a knife even while being roasted and shpud is mutar -Rama: piece isn’t roasted to where all blood extracted, then don’t cut w/ knife, shpud assur -if cut, knife if mutar; shpud needs libun (heated till red hot); no libun, meat mutar b’dieved Rashal: b’dieved knife mutar; l’chatchila shpud needs libun and the knife needs hagalah Taz: b’dieved the shpud is assur -Mishb’tzos Zahav: Reason why shpud is assur l’chatchila: fixed in mixed, absorbs blood; no tzir -Sifsai Da’as: Assur L’chatchila since fire can’t reach it Halacah L’Maaseh: 1. Grill that meat or liver cooked on mutar l’chatchila, (mishrak sharik & fire has direct contact) 2. Mini grill that clamps onto meat or liver=assur l’chatchila(lodged into the meat/liver like shpud) Bread w/ Roasted Meat-If meat roasted so fit to eat=Mutar; even though bread appears red -Rama: Must be fire roasted half-way, then gravy permitted by itself -Halacha like Rava: who holds that Mutar even if: -1) bread turns red, 2) see redness on both sides brea, 3) liquid coming out of meat was thick. -Rashba: According to Gemara if partially cooked (RamaL ½) and has these three then Assur Kli under Unsalted Meat Roasting- don’t place kli unless roasted enough to eat -Can’t place kli under roasting meat to collect fate until redness fades; Mar Zutra: smoke appears -Rav Ashi: Place salt in kli, lets fat go to the top -Tur: not experts in how much salt to use (Rashi); roast half-way before putting kli Cooked Half Way If meat half cooked, sure all the blood has been extracted -Before that point, meat assur l’chathila (Shach) 27 Stuffed Chicken with Meat Coating Unsalted Meat Siman 77 Siman 78 Pages 198-205 Fowl or Kid stuffed with Unsalted Meat-Kasher by Tzli; even if opening turned up -even if Chicke salted stuffed w/ unsalted meat cac roast (will spit out whatever absorb) -Rama: Can roast chicken even if inside salted and outside unsalted (fire will draw out blood) Kashering the chicken by salting pot for cooking=assur -If salted outside & inside separately=mutar -If fowl or kid stuffed then salted, salt doesn’t extract from inside -Rama: L’chatchile don’t stuff chicken/kid unless Salted both inside and Outside Stuffing Itself-Rama: Above only applies by vegetables and meat -boiled eggs assur b’deived (like unsalted chicken cooked in a pot), if chicken & stuffing not salted Roasting with stuffing -Rif: stuffing Mutar even if opening turned up; only by roasting due to כבולו כך פולטו -Rosh: melicha permitted if both outside piece and stuffing are salted -Tosefos: l’chatchila stuffing is permitted because fire extract blood better than salt -Rashi: needs lightly salted to permit by roasting -Mechaber: follows Rif, Rosh and Tosefos: outside salted and inside is unsalted Mutar to roasted Rama: l’chatchila Assur to roast stuffed meat unless both stuffing and meat salted (Rashi) -Rama & Mechaber: Assur to Kasher meat and stuffing by Melicha if only outside and not inside Nimlach Hachitzon Velo Hameluiah-Outside salted, but stuffing unsalted -Mechaber: Mutar (baluya and plaita happen at the same time); didn’t say how long salted; learn: 1) If outside piece salted for 24 hours, still say כבולו כך פולטו -Chidush: usually only if blood left in (Rashal); at least some tzir left in (Rama) 2) If outside salted less than 18 minutes still say ;כבולו כך פולטוeven thought not on fire Nimlach Hameluiah Velo Hachitzon-Stuffing salted but not the outside -Rama: blood drawn to the fire, and inside does not absorb any blood; even if inside washed off Rashal:inside salted for shiur and outside not, then inside will absorb blood (not in contact w/ fire) Sifsai Da’as’ five cases of stuffing meat with meat 1. Both insalted: then apply כבולו כך פולטו 2. Both are in the middle of shiur melicha: all mutar 3. Inside not salted and outside in middle of salting: Inside Assur immediately 4. Inside salted for shiur and outside not salted or in middle of shiur melicah: inside assur 5. Inside in middle of shiur and outside is salted: Mutar Salted After Stuffed-salt will not extract blood from inside Shach: we don’t look at inside and outside as one thick piece; outside like meat salted on one side -in a hefsed merubah, outside mutar -Taz: not like one side salted; hefsed merubah assur (chicken’s outides’s inside’s blood blocked) Stuffing w/ Boiled Eggs and Meat-Shach: like stuffing w/ eggs; Rashal: like stuffing w/ meat Roasting Salted Meat w/ Unsalted Meat -Mechaber: Mutar roaste salted meat w/ unsalted meat (like roasting stuffed meat w/ outside salted) -Rama: l’chathila assur, mutar b’deived Spreading before Roasing on Unsalted Chicken-Mechaber: Assur (salted Mutar salt) -Rama: Mutar spread Fat or Tzir (won’t stop blood from giving off) -Tur: Mutar coat meat during tzli w/ coarse flour; machmir: don’t know what is coarse (Mechaber) Dough and Meat: What is Assur? -Pri Chadash only dough assur; Darchai Tshuva: also the meat is assur (Mechaber) -salted with coat of flour on, like salting in kli she’aino menukav Poshtida (thick dough) assur cook in; like cooking in pot (Rashi); chumra: blood doesn’t come out; -Kula: Meat and vegetables can mvatel issur; Unsalted meat-Mechaber:Mutar; Rama:Assur -Mishb’tzos Zahav: assur even in hefsed Merubah
© Copyright 2024 Paperzz