Difficult, Courageous, and Fierce
Conversations
Patrick F. Bassett, NAIS President
[email protected]
Sources
 Difficult Conversations: How to Discuss What
Matters Most by Douglas Stone, Bruce Patton, and
Sheila Heen
 Courageous Conversations about Race by Glen E.
Singleton and Curtis Linton
 Fierce Conversations: Achieving Success at Work
& in Life, One Conversation at a Time by Susan
Scott
Difficult, Courageous, & Fierce Conversations
Title
 Observations: Leadership is…
 Vision?
 Storytelling?
 Courage?
 Modeling?
 Conversation.
Why Conflicted Conversations Are So Hard
What Strategies To Use
What We’re Not Talking about but Should Be
Difficult, Courageous, & Fierce Conversations
Title
 Observations….
Learning to sense what we are hearing vs.
“clarifying” what we are saying?
Power distorts conversations.
 Leaders often at a disadvantage of constant
scrutiny and imputed motives. Casey
Stengel on being a manager: “The key to
being a good manager is…
…keeping those who hate me away from
those who are still undecided.”
Title
1.
Difficult Conversations: How to Discuss What
Matters Most by Douglas Stone, Bruce Patton, and Sheila Heen
You’re
holding
me up.
How’s the
project
coming?
You’re a jerk.
I hate you.
Fine,
thanks.
Levels: Stated vs. Implied. Business at hand vs. Threats to my image.
Difficult Conversations: How to Discuss What
Title
Matters Most by Douglas Stone, Bruce Patton, and Sheila Heen
Identifying the deeper issues: both
sides’ sense of their own competence
and goodness.
“Making your point because you are
right” always fails.
Arguments are only seldom about
“truth” and “facts”; they are almost
always about feelings and identity.
Difficult Conversations: How to Discuss What
Title
Matters Most by Douglas Stone, Bruce Patton, and Sheila Heen
“Delivering a message” vs. “having a
conversation.”
Developing a “learning stance” as opposed to a
grenade-launching stance.
Sorting out “what really happened.”
Understanding what you and the other party are
feeling.
Knowing why we see the world differently from
others: different information and interpretations,
based on our experiences, outlooks,
dispositions, and assumptions — and because
our conclusions always reflect self-interest.
Difficult Conversations: How to Discuss What
Title
Matters Most by Douglas Stone, Bruce Patton, and Sheila Heen
 The Wrong Questions: Who is right? Whose fault is it?
Why are you doing this? Vs. The Right Question: Why
do we see this differently?
 Refocusing the discussion away from blame and
toward understanding, away from “winning” a
conversation toward insight and finding common
ground that works for both sides.
 PFB: Note Howard Gardner’s notion of intrapersonal
vs. interpersonal knowledge: knowing why we think
and feel the way we do vs. empathizing with the
perspective of “the other.”
Difficult Conversations: How to Discuss What
Title
Matters Most by Douglas Stone, Bruce Patton, and Sheila Heen
 Stop arguing about who is right. Stop needing to assign
blame, “since when blame is the goal, understanding
and problem-solving are the casualties.”
 Start understanding each other’s stories and reframe the
conversation.
 Move from certainty to curiosity.
 Role-play: What’s behind the religious right’s political
or educational agenda? What’s behind the ACLU’s
attack on religion in the public common?
 Deconstruct “town hall meetings” on reforming health
care.
Difficult Conversations: How to Discuss What
Title
Matters Most by Douglas Stone, Bruce Patton, and Sheila Heen
The Global Version: Anthony Kwame
Appiah’s Cosmopolitanism. Recognizing
others’ firmly-held beliefs are just as culturallyderived and as important as ours, however
antithetical or even repugnant to ours:
welcoming dialogue with openness and
showing a willingness to learn.
 PFB: Adopt Coleridge’s “willing suspension
of disbelief” as first stage to empathy and
understanding.
Difficult Conversations: How to Discuss What
Title
Matters Most by Douglas Stone, Bruce Patton, and Sheila Heen
What if the
university
president saw her
crossing campus?
Unprofessional.
The Boomer Boss /Millennial Staffer
Version (“Generation Vexed,” Case Currents, Oct. 2009)
You’re going
out of the
office in flip
flops?
Why would anyone care about my
footwear, so long as I do the job
well? How dare my boss impose
unnecessary dress code rules!
Are you serious?
Going to a campus
meeting.
Difficult Conversations: How to Discuss What
Title
Matters Most by Douglas Stone, Bruce Patton, and Sheila Heen
She doesn’t
get what my
work
demands..
The Spouse/Partner Version
. it wait?
Can
I’m busy
You think you’re only
busy one?
You don’t love me.
Fine.
Puzzle: Mishandled conversations create the very outcomes we dread.
A Action
PuzzleScience: Source – Klingenstein Center
Class, April 2008, Professor Victoria Marsick
A Puzzle: Why do we create the very outcomes we seek to avoid?
Action Science: Source – Klingenstein Center
Class, April 2008, Professor Victoria Marsick
The Admin Team Case (modified by NAIS)
Context: At a meeting with the head of school, senior managers
asked the head whether or not participation in a new faculty
development workshop on diversity was mandatory for
them.
What the head said: “I haven’t lost my confidence in you . . .
yet.”
 If you were an admin team member, what do you think he or
she meant?
 How would you act on your beliefs?
The Ladder
of Inference
Action Science: Source – Klingenstein Center
Class, April 2008, Professor Victoria Marsick
High
By climbing the
ladder of
inference, we
misunderstand
and act contrary
to what we seek
and need,
exacerbating
situations. (Head
could have
meant, “I trust
you to decide for
yourselves.”)
Low
I take actions
based on my beliefs
He’s no different than
the others—despite his
“nice guy” posturing!
I adopt beliefs about the world
I’d better sign up now!
I draw conclusions
I add meanings
(cultural and personal)
I select data from what I observe
I observe data and experiences
He’s really saying he
has already lost his
patience
He’s not telling the
whole story
I haven’t lost my
confidence in you, yet. . .
Running up the ladder of inference (compounding error) vs. inquiring
down the ladder, unpacking assumptions)
Action Science: Source – Klingenstein Center
Class, April 2008, Professor Victoria Marsick
Nancy’s Case (Modified by NAIS)
Nancy (an English teacher) is a member of the comment-reading
team at Starfield Academy. At the end of each term, the Dean of
Academics (Sarah) convenes the team and together the members
read every student report and, when necessary, edit the reports
for tone, style, grammar, and typographical errors. Nancy writes
lengthy, individualized comments for each student, but she
notices that Jose (a Spanish teacher) writes a single two-sentence
comment and pastes the right (and sometimes the wrong) name
where it is supposed to be. Nancy believes this is unacceptable,
that Jose is failing to meet the expectations of faculty members at
SA, and that her own hard work is less valuable when others do
the task so poorly but with no repercussions. It seems worth
noting that Jose is an alum and the younger brother of beloved
faculty member. Nancy would like Sarah to serve in her role as
Action Science: Source – Klingenstein Center
Class, April 2008, Professor Victoria Marsick
Nancy’s Case (Modified by NAIS, cont.)
Dean of Academics, Jose’s supervisor, to tell Jose his work is
unacceptable.
Nancy’s goal is to express her frustration with the inconsistent
application of standards for report writing (or with the lack of
standards), and to remind Sarah that it is her job to articulate
and uphold those standards.
Her secondary goal is to not get fired for rocking the boat and
for taking on an issue some might see, wrongfully in her mind,
as having racial or ethnic overtones.
Action Science: Source – Klingenstein Center
Class, April 2008, Professor Victoria Marsick
What Nancy Thought & Felt


I can’t believe he wrote the same
comment for every student. Gross.
How can he possibly think that’s
acceptable? How can that possibly
be a reflection of his experience of
those students in the classroom?
He’s not doing his job. How can
he get away with that level of
neglect and laziness?
How can it be so obvious that he
doesn’t care, and yet Sarah is
going to let him get away with it?
I’m sure if someone asked him
about each student, he would have
specific things to say about each
one. (Well, that might be
assuming too much.)
What Was Said

Nancy: “Sarah, I think Jose
wrote the same comment for
every student, and it’s only
two sentences long.”

Sarah: (Sigh). “Give them to
me.”

Nancy: “He must have more to
say than that, right? Those
comments can’t possibly make
parents happy, can they?”

Sarah: Silence
Action Science: Source – Klingenstein Center
Class, April 2008, Professor Victoria Marsick
Nancy’s Ladder of Inference
Her… Goals?
Assumptions? Actions?
Outcomes?
Double Loop?
PFB’s Conclusions
 We, not others, are largely responsible for creating the
outcomes we wish to avoid.
 Avoiding the difficult conversations produces anxiety,
anger, disillusionment, and distress.
 Having “to be right” is always wrong.
 Climbing the ladder of inference inevitably positions you for
a fall.
 Descending the ladder of inference and assuming a posture
of openness (“growth” vs. “fixed” mindset) and curiosity is
double-loop learning, positioning you for growth and more
successful outcomes of difficult conversations.
Action Science: Source – Klingenstein Center
Class, April 2008, Professor Victoria Marsick
Action Science Model
A Person’s
Assumptions,
Values,
Beliefs
Intentions
Match
Actions
Outcomes
Single Loop Learning
Mismatch
Double Loop Learning
See NAIS Case Study #11: Digging Deeper or NAIS Case
Study #31 The Package Deal
Difficult Conversation Role Plays
 Teacher: “I’m getting daily magna opus emails from Sam’s
Mom, ranging from ‘I saw Sam with his coat unbuttoned on
the playground’ to ‘Sam tells me some of the boys are
making fun of him’ and I don’t have time to answer them all
any more.”
Division Head: “Well….”
Difficult Conversation Role Plays
 Head: “I had a board member call me to share a parent’s
exchange where she called to report she’s monitoring her
child’s Facebook page and found one of his classmates
talking about Hitler and guns, but you and the school
counselor said you were monitoring it too but saw no cause
for concern and just recommended ‘de-friending’ the kid.
The board member is alarmed and fears other parents will be
too.”
Division Head: “Well….”
Difficult Conversation Role Plays
 Division Head: I just found out from a very angry teacher
in my division that you overrode our long-standing policy
denying requests for students to drop a course after the first
marking period without having the withdraw-pass or
withdraw fail appear on the transcript because in this case
the Welltodoes made a direct appeal to you. I know they’re
major donors, but this will undermine completely your
credibility with the faculty regarding our academic
integrity.”
Head: “Well….”
Difficult Conversation Role Plays
 Division Head: “I’ve just had a very awkward conversation
with Mr. and Mrs. Offended who tell me that you and Mrs.
Offended had become close and ‘befriended’ one another on
Facebook, but that friendship had gone south, she says
because you had hit on her husband. And they told me
about what they called a ‘provocative’ photo from your
Facebook page that showed you pregnant with lots of skin
showing, indicative of your lack of decent morals. They
want me to fire you.”
Teacher: “Well….”
Difficult Conversation Role Plays
 Senior Faculty Member at Opening Faculty Meeting:
“Some of us were very surprised to see the draconian
changes in the drug policy you put into place over the
summer, and we don’t support them. This is a school, after
all, and we should use student mistakes as teachable
moments, not as showcase trials for a hard-line ‘crime and
punishment’ display from administration. And since when
does the administration make policy without consulting the
faculty? If this is how we’re going to do business around
here now, I’m going to have to re-consider whether or not I
want to be part of this community.”
Division Head: “Well….”
Difficult Conversation Role Plays
 Division Head: “As we’ve agreed, we need to discontinue a
teaching position in the math department because of
decreased enrollment. There are three possibilities: 1.)
Sarah, who is the most senior of the group and our scheduler
(which nobody else can do), but we all agree is a weak
teacher; 2.) Mac, an excellent teacher (the strongest of the
three) who has been at the school ten years but does very
little outside of the classroom and is somewhat resentful
when is asked to do so; 3.) Pam, a very good young teacher
who has been at the school for just two years and is willing
to do anything above and beyond, and often volunteers. I’m
having trouble deciding which one should go?
Head: “Well….”
2.Title
Courageous Conversations about Race by Glen E.
Singleton and Curtis Linton
 Why do we have a persistent achievement gap
by race — and what should we do about it?
 Why isn’t equal opportunity all we need?
 What causes the persistent racial inequities
and an uneven playing field?
 What if equity does not mean equal resources
but rather that students with the greatest need
receive the greatest systemic support in order
to achieve success?
Courageous Conversations about Race by Glen E.
Title
Singleton and Curtis Linton
 What do we do about the distrust that exists on
both sides of the interracial conversation:
“white talk vs. color commentary.” Teaching
from the Bible and Talmud: “We do not see
things as they are; we see them as we are.”
 Why leave so much to chance?
– standards and curriculum defined by
individual teachers;
Courageous Conversations about Race by Glen E.
Title
Singleton and Curtis Linton
 Why leave so much to chance (cont.)?
– content that is broadcast in a one-size fits all
format;
– a general acquiescence to the “fixed mindset”
(cf. Carol Dweck) that some students will
“get it” and others won’t;
– a lack of data on who is succeeding in
school;
– a lack of resolve to do something about those
who aren’t.
Title
3.
Fierce Conversations: Achieving Success at Work

& in Life, One Conversation at a Time by Susan Scott
Master the courage to interrogate reality:
–
–
Lillian Hellman’s observation that “people change and
forget to tell one another.”
Military’s notion of the distinction between “ground truth”
and “official truth.”

Come out from behind yourself into the conversation and make
it real:
– “When the conversation is real, the change happens before
the conversation is over.”
– PFB: Do we know when conversations are superficial and
disingenuous versus when they are deep and authentic?

Be here, prepared to be nowhere else:
– “Participate as if it matters, since it does.”
Fierce
Title Conversations: Achieving Success at Work
& in Life, One Conversation at a Time by Susan Scott
 Tackle your toughest challenge today:
– Burnout comes from not naming and solving the
problem.
– PFB: Our distaste for meetings related to
avoiding the tough — and meaningful —
conversations.
 Obey your instincts:
– PFB: Malcolm Gladwell’s Blink: What’s your gut
telling you? Why are you feeling guilty about
neglecting to do or say something?
Fierce
Title Conversations: Achieving Success at Work
& in Life, One Conversation at a Time by Susan Scott
 Take responsibility for your emotional wake:
– There is no trivial comment by a leader.
– PFB: Whom can we trust to be “the truth-tellers”
about the impact of a leader’s statements?
 Let silence do the heavy lifting: It will tell you what
really needs to be said.
– PFB: I wonder why we Americans are so fretful
about the pauses and so quick to fill them.
Fierce
Title Conversations: Achieving Success at Work
& in Life, One Conversation at a Time by Susan Scott
 Tribes in the Northern Natal region in South
Africa: their greeting is sawu bona -I see you (the
greeting in Avatar’s Pandora, too!), and the reply is
sikhona (I am here).
 In this culture, the message is clear: Unless you see
me, I do not exist.
 PFB: That observation ties all three of these books
together.
Difficult, Courageous, & Fierce Conversations
Title
 Identify the topics we are avoiding but
everyone knows we should be talking about —
what Ted Sizer calls “the silences” and Roland
S. Barth calls “the unmentionables.”
 “Where are the Hispanic kids and teachers?”
 “Why is your performance lagging?”
 “Why is your behavior so offensive?”
 “Are we becoming schools for the richest of
the rich and the smartest of the poor?”
 “Why is it easier to change the course of
history than to change a history course?”
The End!
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