Why these changes to Ahri are devolving her into a pure
assassin (And why she should not be nerfed).
By: Anton Arkhipov
Introduction:
Hi, my name is Dat bankai bro. I have an account on EUW (where I am from (sort of)) called Pfflagger
and my main is in Russia (where I am actually from) called Drake Reversi 2. Now I am a bronze 1 almost
silver 5 guy who plays this game quite a lot. I’ve been playing since the Diana patch in season 2, end july
and I have been loving this game for all it is. Now over the course of my journey to get to level 30 and
beyond I’ve been trying out multiple champions, became versatile in all roles and I main multiple
champs to make sure I have counters and safe picks in case things go south in ranked. My main role is
mid lane in which I play my main main champ Ahri. Now all though I believe this game to be amazingly
fun to play there are some things that have been bothering me, to be more specific my main issue lies in
the champion balancing/reworking team. Now occasionally they do a good job fixing the wrongs or
nerfing the strong and buffing the weak.
But on October 10th 2013 I was looking through the forums (as I usually do) and I stumbled upon a
thread called “Ahri Getting nerfed?” Now at first I thought to myself before viewing the thread about
the current state of Ahri which is quite balanced and strong. Of course I thought about it and decided
that if there was going to be a nerf it would be a minor one, such as the damage reduction on W and R
or a slight AP change to W and a damage reduction on R. When I opened the thread what I saw shocked
me quite a bit because I thought that the nerfs that were given were just insane. I looked over the
people’s comments and found that most of them are against these nerfs in EUW. Knowing that the red
discussions are not likely to happen in EUW I went over to the NA forums to find an explanation behind
this. As with the EUW forums I noticed a large amount of discussion about these nerfs and that they are
unjustified. I then came upon the thread which started the whole thing which is this thread in which I
am posting right now: “Sneak peek for Ahri’s 3.13 changes”.
Now I would like to say that ricklessabadonn is a nice person and value communication when discussing
changes and he’s been replying to as many comments as he could so far. My only issue lies in the fact
that the whole circulation of the arguments go in the same order and that there is little deviation to
form new arguments. Now one might believe that this is just bad debating skills used over the internet
but looking deeper into it you would understand that it’s simply because the arguments that bring the
most impact have already been stated multiple times, these include: The DFG nerf/removal argument,
The mathematics behind this nerf, The ideology behind this nerf, The potential solutions to keep
everyone happy. These arguments are arguments about the itemization limitations, the damage
limitations, the fun factor limitations and the way to get rid of these limitations. It is impossible to make
everyone happy that is true and so Riot is doing what they can to keep the majority happy.
Unfortunately this plan backfired on Riot and now the threads are being flooded with Ahri nerf
discussions.
I believe that the way to solve this once and for all is a well-structured collection of these arguments so
that Riot can read over and reconsider these nerfs. I’ll try to go from the very root of this whole issue to
the very surface where we are now. I’ll try to let people understand: The champion herself, What she is
meant to do, What are her skills, How does she do this, what are the risks?, What are the rewards?,
Where has this whole “Ahri is overpowered” discussion stem from, Why has it stemmed?, The current
state of Ahri, The potential state of Ahri, The itemization issues, The advantages of the potential state,
The disadvantages of the potential state, Her matchups, The mathematics and finally The potential
solutions. So without further ado let’s take a look into Ahri herself.
Ahri, The nine tailed fox:
Unlike other foxes that roamed the woods of southern Ionia, Ahri had always felt a strange connection to
the magical world around her; a connection that was somehow incomplete. Deep inside, she felt the skin
she had been born into was an ill fit for her and dreamt of one day becoming human. Her goal seemed
forever out of reach, until she happened upon the wake of a human battle. It was a grisly scene, the land
obscured by the forms of wounded and dying soldiers. She felt drawn to one: a robed man encircled by a
waning field of magic, his life quickly slipping away. She approached him and something deep inside of
her triggered, reaching out to the man in a way she couldn't understand. His life essence poured into her,
carried on invisible strands of magic. The sensation was intoxicating and overwhelming. As her reverie
faded, she was delighted to discover that she had changed. Her sleek white fur had receded and her body
was long and lithe - the shape of the humans who lay scattered about her.
However, though she appeared human, she knew that in truth the transformation was incomplete. A
cunning creature, she adapted herself to the customs of human society and used her profound gift of
beauty to attract unsuspecting men. She could consume their life essences when they were under the
spell of her seductive charms. Feeding on their desires brought her closer to her dream, but as she took
more lives, a strange sense of regret began to well within her. She had reservations about actions which
never troubled her as a fox. She realized that she could not overcome the pangs of her evolving morality.
In search of a solution, Ahri found the Institute of War, home of the most gifted mages on Runeterra.
They offered her a chance to attain her humanity without further harm through service in the League of
Legends.
''Mercy is a human luxury... and responsibility.''
-- Ahri
Other information is that she is currently classed as a Mage Assassin (primary Mage, secondary Assassin)
meaning she deals AP (ability power) damage. Her recommended item build is that of a sustainable
start, built into a more poke oriented pre 6, then built into a more survivability/assassination mix to
make her into a quite squishy but strong mage. Her starting stats are as follows:
Health: 380 (+80 per level for a total of 1820 base health at level 18)
Mana: 230 (+ 50 per level for a total of 1130 base mana at level 18)
Attack Damage: 50 (+ 3 per level for a total of 104 base attack damage at level 18)
Attack Speed: 0.668 (+2% per level for a total of 0.895% base attack speed at level 18)
Movement speed: Base movement speed of 330
Health Regeneration (per 5 seconds): 5.5 (+ 0.6 per level for a total of 16.3 base health regeneration at
level 18)
Mana Regeneration (per 5 seconds): 6.25 (+ 0.6 per level for a total of 17.05 base mana regeneration at
level 18)
Armor: 11 (+ 3.5 per level for a total of 74 base armor at level 18)
Magic Resistance: 30 (+ 0 per level for a total of 30 base magic resistance at level 18)
Looking at these stats you can come to the conclusion that she is not a naturally tanky champion but
rather a squishy one. Her movement speed is slow so her assassination does not come into play from
level 1 and her mana regeneration is not that great. Her base armor is very low making her very
vulnerable to AD (Attack damage) mid lane casters such as Zed, Kha ‘Zix and Talon. Her base magic
resistance is the same as any other champions but as a ranged champion her magic resistance does not
grow with levels so it will remain at a solid 30 MR. Building her into an assassin will mean that she will
most likely not be able to survive long enough to unleash her full damage on her opponents while mage
Ahri takes a bit of time to get the ball rolling. Next we’ll look at her skills and current scaling’s and
descriptions:
Passive: Essence theft; Ahri gains a charge of Essence Theft with each enemy unit hit by any of
her spells, with a cap of 3 charges gained per spell cast. Upon reaching 9 charges,
Ahri's next spell will have 35% bonus spell vamp.
Q: Orb of deception; ACTIVE: Ahri sends out an orb in a line in front of her and then pulls it back,
dealing magic damage on the way out and true damage on the way back.
W: Fox Fire; ACTIVE: Ahri releases three fox-fires to surround her for up to 5 seconds. After a
short delay after cast, each flame will target the closest visible enemy unit to itself,
prioritizing champions, and deal magic damage to the target.
Additional fox-fires that hit the same target will only deal 50% damage.
E: Charm; ACTIVE: Ahri blows a kiss that travels in a line in front of her. The first enemy it hits
takes magic damage and is charmed, forcing them to walk harmlessly towards Ahri while being
slowed by 50% for the duration.
R: Spirit Rush; ACTIVE: Ahri dashes towards the cursor and fires essence bolts, dealing magic
damage to up to 3 visible nearby enemies, prioritizing champions. In the next 10
seconds, Spirit Rush can be cast two additional times before going on cooldown.
Each enemy can only be hit once per dash.
The ranges on the spells are as follows:
Q: 880 Range
W: 800 Range
E: 975 Range
R: 550 Range for the bolt, 450 Range for the dash for a total of 1350 total dash range.
The cooldowns and mana costs are:
Spell
Q
W
E
R
Cooldown
7 seconds on all levels
9, 8, 7, 6, 5 seconds
12 seconds on all levels
110, 95, 80 seconds
Mana cost
70, 75, 80 , 85, 90 Mana
60 Mana on all levels
50, 65, 80, 95, 110 Mana
100 Mana on all levels
And finally let’s take a look at the scaling and damage:
Spell
Q
W
E
R
Damage
Magic damage/True damage:
40 / 65 / 90 / 115 / 140
Max Damage to the Same
Target: 80 / 130 / 180 / 230 /
280 (+ 65% AP)
Magic Damage Per Fox-Fire:
40 / 65 / 90 / 115 / 140
Magic Damage to the Same
Target: 80 / 130 / 180 / 230 /
280 (+ 80% AP)
Magic damage: 60 / 90 / 120 /
150 / 180
Duration: 1 / 1.25 / 1.5 /
1.75 / 2
Magic Damage: 85 / 125 / 165
Max Damage to Same Target:
255 / 375 / 495 (+ 105% AP)
Scaling
(+ 32.5% AP)
(+ 40% AP)
(+ 35% AP)
(+ 35% AP)
Looking at these spells we can see that her base damage is good for a caster mage and pretty
bad for an assassin. The AP scaling’s are also not the best even for an AP caster, the highest
being 40% AP scaling. Nonetheless she can still deal a lot of damage thanks to the true damage
on her Q return, the multiple hits on her W and on her R. This allows Ahri to be a good damager
in lane as well as in teamfights being able to single out a priority target while dealing consistent
magic damage. Another factor which allows Ahri to be dangerous in lane is the range of her
skills, which are quite large for an AP caster mage. The fact that Ahri has decent damage, with
long ranges, moderately long cooldowns on all spells except W and has high mana costs means
that in the early game she won’t be able
to constantly spam to harass out of lane
but she will be able to poke well over a
long period of time. After level 6 this is
when the assassination part of Ahri’s skill
set comes in: Charming a target to take
burst them down is possible, but not
likely. Ahri has a high roaming potential so
moving to the bot lane to assassinate the
ADC or Support is a valid tactic as they are
both squishy increasing the chances of
assassination. Ahri is made to constantly
Taken from: http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=34307-barph-ahribuild-guide
Taken from: http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=34307-barph-ahribuild-guide
damage the enemy team with her Q and
W and pick out priority targets with her E.
Her R can be used in multiple ways such
as: Initiation (going in to catch a target or
repositioning into an offensive position),
Falling back (in case teamfights go sour or
in case of Ganks) or baiting (baiting the use
of flash or similar dash spells). This mobility
makes he a safe pick for the laning phase
and a decent pick in the teamfights because
if she misses her charm or hits a tank she’ll
have to wait 12 seconds to try and pick out
the priority target again. She can use her
skills to damage the enemy team but due to
the rather long cooldowns she can’t do this
well in a short teamfight. And another thing
these cooldowns are limiting is her
assassination potential which means that if
Taken from: http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=34307-barph-ahribuild-guide
she would manage to get to the ADC and kill
him/her she would not be able to get out
quickly. An assassin is somebody like Akali, Fizz or Kassadin, someone who is able to jump into
the backline, kill and get out quickly. If focused down they will die instantly. That is the risk and
reward for playing an assassin: You either: get a kill and are able to get out, or you get focused
down and die. For Ahri the risk if she’s playing a mage is not being able to deal enough damage
in a duel leading to her death but she is rewarded with constant damage and survivability in
teamfights thanks to her passive and range. The risk if she’s playing an assassin is the same as
any other assassin, if she gets focused she dies but the reward is that she can kill someone
quicker in a 1v1 situation. This is where the real problem comes in not in her mage capabilities,
but her assassination capabilities.
Assassin Ahri and the Death Fire Grasp:
Since the start of September lots of people have begun to complain about Ahri’s strength in
general and this is because of the world championships. Some players have begun to use Ahri in
lane as an assassin because they realized that it is one of the best options at the moment as the
other assassins have been nerfed quite hard and are not that effective to assassinate anymore.
The big blow up of complaints began after Faker managed to kill Vi as an Ahri. People decided
to ignore the fact that Faker was three levels ahead, had a DFG and Vi had no magic resist
whatsoever. This match inspired people to play Ahri with a DFG more often which then led to
the rapid increase in popularity for assassin Ahri. What this also led to was a rising hatred for
assassin Ahri who was undeniably very annoying and very mobile, even for an assassin. The
reason why Ahri was doing so well wasn’t because of her kit, which is considered to be
balanced by the riot team as morello stated himself that Ahri was in a good place at the
moment. The reason why she is doing well is because of the Death Fire Grasp which allowed
her to assassinate someone with a simple W R cast and still have a charge in R left over to get
out of the fray.
It’s important to understand that Ahri was actually considered to be underpowered before the
world championship and that she didn’t get any changes in her numbers whatsoever for a long
time so she is the same as she was after her season 2 nerf.
The DFG is a very good item in the sense that for 3100 gold it gives:
1. 120 extra AP
2. 10% Cooldown Reduction
3. An active that deals 15% of the targets maximum health in magic damage and also
increases the amount of magic damage the target takes by 20% for 4 seconds. This
active has a 60 second cooldown.
This item is simply too good for AP casters. Although it is a core item on champions such as
Veigar, Leblanc and Viktor it’s simply too strong for other AP casters. This item has begun to
force Ahri into a primary assassin secondary mage and is making the laning phase quite
frustrating as the first champion to get the DFG usually wins the lane and can roam to their
pleasure. The DFG is fixing Ahri’s issues of a lack of assassination damage and is boosting it out
of proportion instead. Assassin Ahri might be fun to play but it’s very annoying to play against
because of the insane mobility and the “free damage” gained from the W and R. Along with the
fact that she has a fairly safe laning phase post level 6 this makes her a very annoying force to
reckon with in game. This leads me to the discussion about the current Ahri and how she fares
in terms of damage, mobility and fun compared to the new Ahri.
The mathematics behind this:
The current Ahri numbers are shown in my description of her so if you wish to understand the
nerfs I suggest looking there. To see new Ahri look at appendix A. I should point out that I am
not very good at maths and so I credit all the mathematics used in this essay to the summoner
“NEGITIVITY” who in his thread “New Ahri vs Old Ahri Graphs (Math)” discusses the
mathematics behind these changes. I hope he/she will accept the fact that I am doing this to try
and show riot that what they are doing is unjustified and wrong. For further mathematics see
appendix B. Basically we should look at the burst damage that Ahri deals and since this whole
issue is revolving around assassin Ahri. What this person did is take six different build paths and
compare them to the old Ahri’s damage. The builds that were used are:
A. A. 2 Doran's Rings
B. 2 Doran's Rings + Deathfire Grasp
C. 2 Doran's Rings + Deathfire Grasp + Rabadon's Deathcap
D. 1 Doran's Ring + Deathfire Grasp + Rabadon's Deathcap + Void Staff
E. 1 Doran's Ring + Deathfire Grasp + Rabadon's Deathcap + Zhonya's Hourglass
F. 1 Doran's Ring + Deathfire Grasp + Rabadon's Deathcap + Void Staff + Zhonya's Hourglass +
One 80 AP Item + Elixir of Brilliance (assumed to be 40 AP)
Figure 1: A graph showing the Single target burst change with the Death Fire Grasp. Taken from NEGATIVITY’s post
http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3941027
What we can see here is that on the X axis there is the Change in damage compared to the old
Ahri and on the Y axis the levels are shown. Pre level 6 the burst damage actually grows for all
build paths, build path A gaining the most out of these changes and build path F gaining the
least out of it. Path A gains an extra 70 damage from level 2 and it grows to a good 78- 79 extra
damage at level 3. At level 4 is starts to drop and then at level 6 the whole situation changes.
There is a massive drop in the damage for build A, B, C and D. The drop in damage is very rapid
going from (using build A as the medium here) 50 extra damage gained to -98 - -99 damage lost.
This is a drop of 148 – 149 damage using build A. Build D which is the middle build which
includes 1 dorans ring, the DFG a Rabaddons Deathcap and Void staff has a change of 33
damage gained to 41 damage lost. This is a total change of 74 damage lost, which is not as
drastic but is still harsh (note that these numbers are taken from the level 6 burst damage). At
level 18 the damage for build A rises to a loss of 81 damage compared to the current Ahri and
Build D rises to a smaller loss of 28 – 29 damage.
It should be noted that the build A is highly unlikely to be used in a match lasting 20 minutes so
the numbers for build A should only be considered for the early game (lvl 1 – 6). Build D is more
of a mid-game build and is more fitting to prove that this change is butchering Ahri’s damage.
The only builds that are gaining positives from this are builds E and F. Build E also drops in
terms of damage after level 6 going from 22 extra damage to 10 damage lost for a total loss of
around 32 total damage but at level 16 (where you can max your ultimate) it goes into the
positive numbers for an extra 1 – 2 damage. Build F is the only build which gives the new Ahri a
more positive outlook on the damage gaining roughly 19 damage at level 5 and dropping down
to 3 extra damage at level 6. At level 18 this build which can be considered a late game build
will give you an extra 19 damage to your burst. This is a very minor increase in damage and it
only works on the late game builds which is around the 40 minute mark in the game.
Figure 2: Single Target burst damage without Death Fire Grasp. Taken from NEGATIVITY’s post
http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3941027
Here we can again see a similar pattern as with the Death Fire Grasp. The damage increase pre
6 and drops massively for builds A, B, C and D post 6. Builds E and F remain in a similar state as
well which means that the death fire grasp does not add too much to the damage in all builds.
In fact the damage actually rises for builds A, B, C and D and build D almost breaks even at level
18. The same as the previous graph we can see that the damage is in a general state of loss and
that this means that her bursting ability has been nerfed. This draws us to the conclusion that
these changes are making a champion considered to be balanced/underpowered to be
completely ruined and not worth playing anymore.
Ahri’s match ups:
If we consider both Ahri’s in lane (Mage and Assassin) we would have to look how they fare
against opponents similar to them to get a better grasp on her strength and weakness. I have
chosen seven champions that fit both the burst/sustained damage mage criteria and the
assassin criteria. First lets take a look at Mage Ahri:
Champion
Ryze
Lissandra
Orianna
Annie
Lux
Morgana
Viktor
Matchup
In early game can harass him but Ryze scales
much better into late game and deals more
burst damage to opponents.
Very similar in terms of power and can both
be AOE annoyances if played well. Generally
Ahri is better than Lissandra as she has more
mobility and range and can beat her in lane. In
teamfights Lissandra deals more damage
overall though.
Same as Lissandra but possesses a smaller
burst but a better teamfight potential than
Ahri. Considering the fact that Ahri is able to
maneuver around Orianna’s ball easily this
matchup is a win for Ahri.
Annie is a big threat to Ahri both in lane and
teamfights. Annie possesses less mobility but
much much much more burst which, if used
properly, can really change a teamfight.
Something that Ahri cannot do.
Again another close match up. Both are equal
in terms of burst damage and in teamfights
both possess equal importance.
An easy matchup for Ahri as she can avoid
most of the sustained damage from Morgana.
In teamfight Morgana can deal much more
damage to all enemies with her ult though so
it’s again a decision to be made on lane and
teamfight importance.
A real annoyance in teamfights and a pain in
the lane. Higher burst in both duels and
teamfights.
Now let’s take a look at Ahri’s assassination matchups:
Champion
Akali
Fizz
Zed
Talon
Kha ‘Zix
Leblanc
Kassadin
Matchup
Early game Ahri is the bigger danger but after
level 6 Akali can burst Ahri to death almost
instantly before her even realizing it. The
teamgfight kill potential is much higher thanks
to her ability to get into the back line quicker.
Fizz just destroys Ahri after he gets his full
burst. Sure Ahri’s poke is better but once Fizz
gets close to you, you either die or ult out and
live. Fizz clearly beats Ahri in terms of backline
diving and surviving.
Zed is a decent matchup. Both have good poke
in lane and both have good burst as assassins.
Ahri has the better roam potential and both
have decent backline diving skills.
Same as Zed but Ahri beats Talon in terms of
poke and burst. Both have the same backline
diving ability.
Kha has the higher burst but the more
dangerous backline dive. But if laning against
him you can’t out trade him in duels unless
you hit the charm and you are farmed up
enough.
Higher burst, higher backline diving potential
but not as useful in the late game. Generally
she beats Ahri but if Ahri reacts quick enough
she can beat Leblanc. More of a skill matchup.
Same as Akali. Pre 6 you can poke him as
much as possible, post 6 it’s going to be very
hard to keep up with his damage and burst.
What we can gather from this is that Ahri has better matchups as a burst damage mage rather
than a burst damage assassin. Most assassins blow her out of the water when it comes to
damage and roam potential because of the scaling’s that Ahri possesses and the her non –
targeted blink/dash ability. This leads me to further believe that the only reason why full
assassin Ahri became popular is because of the usage of the DFG.
The potential solutions:
My views on the potential solutions are very simple. A few number tweaks to the W and R and
the removal or rework of the DFG. The reason why I say this is because the W is giving a bit too
much free damage and by lowering the base damage this problem could be solved. The same
problem lies with Ahri’s ultimate and by tweaking the numbers a bit this should not affect her
mage style too much but slightly nerf her assassination playstyle. A good solution that could be
used was proposed by the user “Erifox”. Quoting his potential solutions he proposes:
“So what is my proposal and opinions? Well, personally, I feel like Ahri’s niche should still
preserve her secondary role as an assassin, but her original intent to be played as a mage who
could juke around the battlefield and kite while DPSing the enemy down should be refocused.
Here are my opinions:
Essence Theft
• Now heals Ahri for (2 + Champion Level) +9% AP each time her passive-enhanced spells hit an
enemy (from 35% Spell Vamp)
Personally, again, I don’t have much of an opinion on the passive change. I really don’t see why
the passive was changed (since it wasn’t massively gamechanging or OP), but whatever floats
the boat I guess.
Fox-Fire
• Diminishing returns effect on same-target hits increased to 70% (from 50%) [Best case is now:
100% + 30% + 30%]
• This puts the same-target base damages at 64 / 104 / 144 / 184 / 224 (from 80 / 130 / 180 /
230 / 280), and drops the AP ratio for that case to 64% (from 80%)
• Fixed a bug which caused Fox-Fire to sometimes deal reduced damage to a target which
should receive the standard damage amount
• Now counts as an AoE damage source for the purposes of Spell Vamp and Rylai’s Crystal
Scepter
To preserve Ahri’s traditional role as a kiting/DPS mage, I feel like the UTILITY from her W should
be kept intact (being the single target damage source) to be able to spellvamp and keep healthy
in teamfights while ALSO being able to synergize with items such as Rylai’s to effectively kite,
juke, and chase targets to clean up and peel. By doing so, Ahri gets less free damage from her
W, but still has that very fun aspect of kiting and repositioning in teamfights which is part of
what makes her so fun in her traditional and primary role; however, this change focuses on
preserving her traditional role as a kite/DPS mage. But what about Ahri’s role as an assassin?
Well this brings me to my next point.
Orb of Deception
• Ahri sends out an orb in a line in front of her and then pulls it back, dealing magic damage on
the way out and true damage on the way back
From what I feel, Ahri’s Q ratio should be buffed and her charm be kept the same (all expect the
mana cost of the E). Now why propose this change? Well, because Spirit Rush and W’s free
damage is nerfed due to Ahri’s assassination powers being too potent with those two free
damage abilities, this naturally rewards Ahri players who can HIT the charm which will result in
a larger burst Q. This means that Ahri’s ability to assassinate a target will still be there, but only
if she can reliably hit her skillshots (but is not entire dependent on hitting her charm which I feel
like is overall a negative change). This also promotes Ahri’s traditional intent to be played as
that mage in the backline that throws out the Q while using her W and her ulti to kite, slow, and
perhaps spellvamp since the stronger Q will make her a more AoE focused mage that throws out
her abiltiies from the backline to wear down the enemy team in teamfights. Basically, by shifting
the power from Ahri’s W/ulti to her Q, you make it so that Ahri isn’t punished 100% by missing a
charm, but is still rewarded heavily for being able to hit her skillshots with perhaps a utility slow
from a Rylai’s (to make skillshots easier to land) with there still being counterplay to dodge
Ahri’s skillshots as an assassin. I’m no designer by any means, but I feel like a ratio buff from .65
to .75 or .8 (with the trade of damage nerfs to Ahri’s W and ulti) will make it so that you still
preserve Ahri’s niche as an assassin, but you make it so that there is a higher skillcap and
counterplay to Ahri’s assassin playstye while also promoting the playstyle of being a DPS/Kiting
mage like how she was primarily supposed to be as.
Charm
• Mana cost changed to 90 at all ranks (from 50 / 65 / 80 / 95 / 110)
• Now increases the magic damage Ahri deals to the target by 20% for 4 seconds
From what I feel, I find the mana cost change to be reasonable, but I think getting rid of the
damage amplification is much healthier for Ahri’s kit in conjunction with her other changes
(especially if Ahri’s Q is going to get buffed). Plus, half of Ahri’s Q damage is true damage.
Spirit Rush
• Base damage reduced to 70 / 105 / 140 (from 85 / 125 / 165)
• AP ratio reduced to 25% (from 35%)
• These two changes put the new max damage per target values at 210 / 315 / 420 [+75% AP]
(from 255 / 375 / 495 [+105% AP])
• Spirit Rush time limit decreased to 7 seconds (from 10)"
I generally agree with the ultimate nerfs in terms of damage (although I think nerfing both the
ratio and the base damage by that much is too harsh). Again, I’m not a designer by any means,
but I feel like the ulti’s damage should be decreased by a little bit; however, the time limit of
Spirit Rush should be retained to 10 seconds since this will still promote Ahri’s traditional
playstyle as a kite, DPS, and poke mage that can reposition in teamfights, juke, etc. Also, by
shifting more of Ahri’s damage into her Q for an assassin, you make her less safe in that her
assassination abilities are much more skillshot reliant and thus she is at high risk and high
reward for being able to land her charm and/or Q on the enemy carries.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------Finally, I propose that Deathfire Grasp get looked at as an item. For being 3100 gold, providing
130 AP, giving 10%CDR, and having an active that not only nukes 15% of the target’s max
health but also amplifies subsequent damage by 20% is too strong. Part of what makes Ahri’s W
and ulti provide so much “free damage” is actually in fault of DFG. By using a DFG active in
conjunction with an ignite, Ahri can basically full-> zero a squishy target even without hitting
either her Q OR her charm. While I agree that Ahri’s ulti and W do provide a bit too much free
damage, I feel like a large part of this is because of DFG in its current state. Naturally, Ahri’s
burst actually takes a bit more time to output than other assassins such as Zed, Kassadin, and
Fizz; however, with a DFG, the damage amplification and the amount of free damage that it
provides makes it so that even the much lower burst mages and nuke down targets extremely
fast. From what I remember at World’s Faker played Lissandra who, as Riot said, is intended to
be a mage that provides tons of DPS and CC in a teamfight at the cost of having lower burst
damage; however, there was one game where Faker rushes a DFG on Lissandra as his first
major item and manages to EASILY full-zero the enemy Rumble despite Lissandra being a mage
has lower burst damage. Thus, my reminder is that before significant changes are made to Ahri
or ANY mage for that matter, look into Deathfire grasp and see the issues with that first.
This isn't to discourage Ahri players who build DFG, but simply put, even lower burst mages who
build Deathfire have a significant spike in burst damage. In fact, Ahri's natural burst potential
floats around the "average" when compared to AP mages as a whole; however, BECAUSE of the
strength of DFG at the moment, Ahri's ulti, w, and ignite is all that's really necessary to blow up
a squishy target handily. Again, this isn't to say that Ahri isn't inclined to nerfs on her W and her
ultimate, but before such significant damage nerfs to her ulti and W are to be made, DFG should
be looked at to better balance not only assassin Ahri, but also preserve the strengths of Ahri's
primary playstyle as a mage. Finally, I would just like to emphasize that I'm not saying that Ahri
should no longer be able to build DFG (nor am I putting all the blame of the nerfs on DFG), but
Deathfire really does need to change for not only Ahri, but for other champions in general (as
when you start having lower-end burst mages building the item to instantly nuke down targets,
you have a problem).
-------------------------------------------------------------------------In conclusion, I feel like these nerfs were too reactionary due to Ahri being played in LCS and
World Finals. Yes, Ahri was picked very often, but I believe her win ratio was that of around the
40-45% area; I’m not trying to say that Ahri isn’t inclined to nerfs, but nerfs shouldn’t blindly be
thrown out just because a champion is deemed more popular than others. 3-4 months ago, I
remember quite clearly when the community and GD claimed that Ahri was
weak/underpowered ,but Morello and the balance team felt that Ahri was in a good spot and
that she filled a niche role despite the community's less-than understanding balance state of
Ahri at the time. When Morello stated that "Ahri was in a good spot" despite the community's
pleas to buff her, I was honestly proud that the design team understood her state of relative
balance and that she didn't require any buffs and was actually in quite a decent spot in terms of
her gameplay (strong, but not blatantly OP - that is til players started to rush DFG as first item).
However, with these very reactionary/in-the-moment nerfs, I personally feel that the balance
team is not taking the right direction (and I mean this in the most civil way possible)of nerfs and
changes due to not having a full understanding of Ahri's current state and issues. My one and
only request is this: please at least take into consideration what I said and don’t give
blind/reactionary nerfs to any champion.
- Erifox” (Quoted from his first post on his thread “@Riot: Thoughts on Ahri nerfs from a plat
Ahri main” on the NA forums.
http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3937258&page=6 )
Another potential solution is credited to the summoner “Felixphaeton” who suggest that:
“I'd like to point out that there's no need to destroy any of Ahri's playstyles. There's no reason to
rework Ahri. If she needs a nerf, fine, but don't pidgeonhole every Ahri into the same assassin
style (one that needs a precise chain of events to even approach her previous damage).
Completely gutting her damage without Charm like this encourages the play that most
complaints are stemming from. Assassin Ahri is the one causing upsets, but mage Ahri is the one
taking the bulk of the damage from the nerfs, and mage Ahri is the style that is seen as
balanced or even sub-par at times compared to assassin.
The new Charm mechanic, and the resulting butchering of her sustained damage, is an
egregiously hypocritical direction to take Ahri, forcing her to build full glass cannon for the hope
of somehow landing your full combo perfectly to even have a chance of killing someone (almost
never happens).
Changes to the nerfs need to be made to preserve mage Ahri. The first and foremost step is to
keep her Foxfire interaction with Rylai's. Why is this change even considered? No one was
complaining about her synergy with Rylai's, which has been the core component of the utility
mage Ahri that has been overshadowed by assassin Ahri. I just don't understand what the
reason this change was even put on the PBE is.
Next, we need to slightly tone down her burst, while keeping her sustained damage alive.
Lets take a look at her burst. The bulk of the damage comes from Foxfire, an auto-target spell
with clear downsides (erratic target selection). Good Ahris will position themselves to ensure all
three wisps hit the same target (not always possible), and no-so-good Ahris end up doing suboptimal damage or die trying to find a safe spot to land Foxfire efficiently.
The complaint here is that it's simply too much damage. The .8 AP scaling combined with DFG
and other high AP/magic pen items simply makes her damage too overbearing to play against.
If this is the case, simply lower her W damage. Adjust her ratios/base to find a sweet spot
where Ahris that are ahead can still assassinate someone, but not as easily as she does now. The
new Foxfire dealing 20% less damage does indeed gut her assassination potential if not
compensated elsewhere. This is good (hear me out).
Get rid of the new Charm mechanic. The debuff is very powerful, don't get me wrong, but the
mass removal of power from her other abilities are what will be the final nail for mage Ahri.
Instead of shifting power into Charm, move it into Orb of Deception. Perhaps reduce it's
cooldown by 1 second, and increase its damage a tad.
What does this do? It keeps Ahri's assassination potential alive through increased Orb damage.
However, instead of it being on auto-target Foxfire, her power is connected to a slow-moving
boomerang style skillshot. It makes her damage harder to land. Also, what's the best way to
ensure Orb of Deception hits twice? Charm. Increasing Orb damage will also increase the
importance of landing Charm, one of the goals you are working towards.
What ELSE does this do? It keeps mage Ahri alive. Reducing its cooldown and bumping up its
damage will restore Ahri's sustained damage to compensate for the weaker Foxfire.
The new Charm mana-cost makes her laning pitiful, but I see that it's being looked into.
The ult nerfs...eh, I don't even know why ult was nerfed. The most important part of it isn't the
damage, it's the mobility. The reduced window to use your charges coupled with the new Charm
mechanic is further pidgeonholing into assassin Ahri, as it encourages RRRRRRRR spam willynilly to get your damage out. Mage Ahris generally hold onto their charges for longer, to find
opportune moments to use it.
Finally, I'd like to talk about the special case scenario that draws attention to Ahri. It's the flashy
Faker-style instant obliteration with no warning assassination. It's the best way, quickest, and
safest way to assassinate someone as Ahri.
To execute the instant-kill combo: W -> R -> DFG + E -> Q -> R away.
Foxfire and the first charge of Spirit Rush both will not be affected by the damage amp of
Charm. Foxfire is affected by DFG because of DFG's lack of cast time and faster missile speed.
The second charge of your Ult can be used to escape or chase.
In best case scenario, the new Charm mechanic will affect only the first half of Orb and 1-2
charges of Spirit Rush. It doesn't buff up her main assassination tool, the DFG amped Foxfire,
meaning even with current changes, her assassination is gutted. This is yet another reason why
the new Charm mechanic should not make it live and is a poor direction to take Ahri.
In order to land an optimal combo after the proposed nerfs, one would need E -> DFG + W -> Q > R -> R -> R
Any Ahri player will tell you that outside of laning phase, the chances of finding an opportunity
to pull this off is nearly negligible. It takes too long, and in fact takes less skill than live Ahri (no
preloading W before R and continuous R spam to output damage instead of smartly
repositioning yourself).
I hope my thoughts made a difference here: Ahri was my second champ bought and my absolute
favorite champion. I don't want to see her fun kit and versatile play-style butchered.
tl;dr
Move power from W into Q, instead of E.
Keep her interaction with Rylai's and Spellvamp intact.
Dumpster the new Charm mechanic.
These changes keep mage Ahri alive while shifting assassin Ahri's power into a skill-shot.
-Felixphaeton” (Taken from his post on “sneak peek for ahri's 3.13 changes” on the NA forums.
http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3936634&page=54 )
Conclusion:
As I have stated before I’m neither the best, nor an experienced player compared to others.
What I am though is a person that has mained Ahri for quite a long time and I can see that
these nerfs are completely unjustified and should not be put into effect. By putting these
changes into play what you will end up doing is promoting the style that is both: Hated by
everyone and less effective. I as a customer am asking of you to reconsider these changes and
take a look into the changes suggested in the chapter above by Felixphaeton and Erifox. I don’t
wish to see my main character nerfed to the ground like other champions. Have a heart and
reconsider these changes please. Thank you for reading.
Anton Arkhipov (AKA: Dat bankai bro (NA), Pfflagger (EUW), DrakeReversi2 (Russia))
Bibliography:
http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3937258 (@Riot: Thoughts
on Ahri nerfs from a plat Ahri main)
http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3941027 (New Ahri vs Old
Ahri Graphs (Math))
http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=42114892#42114892 (sneak
peek for ahri's 3.13 changes)
http://gameinfo.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/champions/ahri/#champion-lore
http://forums.euw.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1384433&highlight=ahri+o
p&page=2 (I fear for what Riot will do to Ahri (thread posted a month ago on EUW regarding
Ahri and the Worlds)
http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Ahri
http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=34307-barph-ahri-build-guide
http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/in-depth-ahri-guide-hit-charm-keep-calm331330#chapter11
Appendices:
Appendix A: The changes that are proposed by riot:
Ahri
Summary: Ahri's Charm has had its mana cost changed to a flat amount at all levels (higher at
lower levels, lower at max level), but now increases the magic damage Ahri deals to the target.
Essence Theft now heals her for a specific amount based on the number of enemies she hits
with her passive-enhanced spell, as opposed to getting straight spell vamp. Fox Fire now deals
less damage when every wisp hits the same target, and now counts as an area-of-effect
damage source for the purposes of Spell Vamp and Rylai's Crystal Scepter. Spirit Rush's base
damage and AP ratios have been reduced in addition to having its use time limit reduced.
Context: Ahri is a champion with a lot of strengths and few weaknesses - given her high
versatility and reliability, she can regularly apply a lot of general pressure upon her opponents
from relative safety. Ahri’s strengths should be much better defined than they currently are.
These changes give Ahri players (and her opponents) clear areas of mastery that differentiate
the good Ahris from the great Ahris (heh). Our core focuses are:
Make Ahri’s default lane patterns more clear, so both Ahri and her opponents can make plays
around them.
Make Ahri’s “all in” gameplay more closely tied with landing Charm to establish Charm as Ahri’s
“kiss of death” that needs to be avoided, as well as lower her threat/presence while Charm is
on cooldown.
Keep Ahri’s core gameplay intact while trimming away strength from the low-gameplay
patterns that don’t feel cunning.
Essence Theft
- Now heals Ahri for a specific amount (scales with AP and champion level) each time her
passive-enhanced spells hit an enemy
Fox-Fire
- Diminishing returns effect on same-target hits increased
- Fixed a bug which caused Fox-Fire to sometimes deal reduced damage to a target which
should receive the standard damage amount
- Now counts as an AoE damage source for the purposes of Spell Vamp and Rylai’s Crystal
Scepter
Charm
- Mana cost changed to a flat amount at all levels (higher at lower levels, lower at max level)
- Now increases the magic damage Ahri deals to the target by a percentage for a few seconds
Spirit Rush
- Base damage reduced
- AP ratio reduced
- Spirit Rush time limit decreased
Ahri
Essence Theft
Now heals Ahri for (2 + Champion Level) +9% AP each time her passive-enhanced spells hit an
enemy (from 35% Spell Vamp)
Fox-Fire
Diminishing returns effect on same-target hits increased to 70% (from 50%) [Best case is now:
100% + 30% + 30%]
This puts the same-target base damages at 64 / 104 / 144 / 184 / 224 (from 80 / 130 / 180 / 230
/ 280), and drops the AP ratio for that case to 64% (from 80%)
Fixed a bug which caused Fox-Fire to sometimes deal reduced damage to a target which should
receive the standard damage amount
Now counts as an AoE damage source for the purposes of Spell Vamp and Rylai’s Crystal
Scepter
Charm
Mana cost changed to 90 at all ranks (from 50 / 65 / 80 / 95 / 110)
Now increases the magic damage Ahri deals to the target by 20% for 4 seconds
Spirit Rush
Base damage reduced to 70 / 105 / 140 (from 85 / 125 / 165)
AP ratio reduced to 25% (from 35%)
These two changes put the new max damage per target values at 210 / 315 / 420 [+75% AP]
(from 255 / 375 / 495 [+105% AP])
Spirit Rush time limit decreased to 7 seconds (from 10)
Appendix B: The mathematics done by NEGATIVITY:
Appendix C: How to counter Ahri, by Pfflagger:
To be perfectly honest i'm also worried as to what will happen to her now. All this QQ about her
unchanged (Make sure to take note of that) skills annoys me. Ahri's full burst is only available
after she reaches lvl 6 so there are multiple possibilities countering her there with champions
that have burst pre 6. After 6 she will have excellent roaming potential as well as her full burst
so what you want to do there is to:
1. Avoid her charm. With a character like Leblanc or Fizz this is really easy. Zed and Talon also
can screw her up since they can also easily dodge the charm. Without it you can bait out her ult
by faking an initiate on her. Once both are gone you have something like 80 seconds to take her
down.
2. Ping. Now this is quite important as Ahri's roaming potential is very very good. Now of course
you have braindead people (occasionally) who ignore pings and have no map awareness what
so ever so if pings don't do the trick then move onto the 3rd step to screw up Ahri.
3. Ward. Putting wards into the river on both sides will grant you excellent vision on where she
is going. I've learnt from playing a lot of support that wards win the game (pretty much) as they
grant vision on potential ganks and you are able to keep tabs on all your enemies (this trick
counts for all mid laners with roaming potential).
4. Don't take chances. Basically if you're at 50% HP and 50% mana and the enemy Ahri is
around the same but she has her ultimate and charm, don't risk it. I've seen plenty of people
trying to burst her down and end up either: Spending all their ults and skills and die to her or
the jungler, or they spend all their skills while Ahri runs away and you're left with no reward.
5. If you really want to make life hell (this counts for fizz and kassadin as well) for Ahri ask the
jungler to camp the lane for a bit. Pre 6 she has only 1 form of escape that that's her CC and
even so it can only hit one champion so if you engage on her while she's pushed the lane then
you can pretty much score a kill on her. Also use step 1 in conjunction with this step to make
sure you get a kill. If you get 2 - 3 kills ahead of her it's going to be very hard for her to get back
into the game so you will want to use steps 2 and 3 to avoid her from roaming lanes and killing
champions there.
6. Steal her blue buffs if possible. Ahri has mana issues if she keeps spamming her orb of
deception (Q) and with blue buff she can spam like no tomorrow. So what to do? Simple. Kindly
ask the jungler to put a ward (or do it yourself) on their blue buff and when it appears and you
see her taking it, sneak up to it (if you're any champ that does not have a long range ult.) or
shoot is with your bomb or lazer (ziggs, lux) to steal it. Or you can give it to your jungler if he
needs it and he's in the vacinity. This will give her a hard time in lane.
So all the people complaining about her having no counter play simply have not tried to work
together to achieve a common goal. True this is hard to do in soloq and if you have a duoq
friend it certainly makes things easier (especially if he's the jungler) but it's not impossible.
Before anybody starts to say anything about my lvl (which is 10 atm) i would like to point out
this is a smurf since I have transferred my main account DrakeReversi2 to Russia:
http://www.lolking.net/summoner/ru/958697
Yes it's Bronze 1 and yes i main Nasus but from lvl 14 - lvl 30 (around 500 or so games in total) I
was only playing Ahri. I know her tips, tricks and general knowledge about her skills. She was
not changed since the start of this season and simply because 1 guy managed to succeed with
her in a match does not mean she's OP.
Tl/Dr version:
1. Her skills were unchanged since the start of the season.
2. Dodge her Charm (E)
3. Ping when she's MIA
4. Ward the river often
5. Camp her as a jungler pre 6
6. Steal her buffs as much as possible.
Thanks for reading and have a good day.
Pfflagger/DrakeReversi2/Dat bankai bro.
Special thanks to: Erifox, NEGATIVITY, Felixphaeton and the entire general community on NA
and EUW for fighting against these nerfs.
Save the fox, upvote a post :D.