TRANSCRIPT
Interview: Alex Malley with Jeremy Cordeaux
5AA Radio
Tuesday 12 May 2015
Subjects: Federal Budget
CORDEAUX: CPA Australia as I said at the beginning of the program has been, it would
seem, excluded from the Budget Lock-up -- The Certified Practising Accountants of
Australia, the first time in history (the history of the organisation), that this has happened.
Now the body’s Chief Executive, and I can’t remember when we spoke to Alex, I think it was
The Naked CEO (which is one of his books) [Laughs] - that’s going back a while. He said
that in his time spanning five prime ministers, five governments, he has never seen anything
quite like it. We’ve got him on the line and I’m sure he’s fully dressed for the interview
[laughs]. How are you Alex?
ALEX MALLEY: I’m very well Jeremy and completely fully dressed and middle-aged.
There’s no point in it.
CORDEAUX: [Laughs] Well, you know, you reach a certain point when you can get
somehow more adventurous, I don’t know. But you’re an accountant and accountants are
not allowed that kind of levity.
MALLEY: [Laughs] That’s right.
CORDEAUX: Now what’s all this about?
MALLEY: Well it was a very interesting little repartee that when on at the time but we were
told that there was no room for our organisation. So I proceeded to be interviewed on ABC
Television not long after and within about 40 minutes we were reinstated and apparently
there was an administrative error, we were told – that we had been put on the wrong list.
But Jeremy, we’ve been very conscious to speak about the public interest issues around
leadership in government, or opposition for that matter, and I think perhaps there was maybe
some concerns about that, but it appears that we got a full apology and that one of my guys
will be in the Lock-up tomorrow. Not that one seeks to be in there sometimes – it’s not the
most interesting place to be – but it’s appropriate that we are because not inviting the CPAs
would be like having a medical conference without the surgeons being invited.
CORDEAUX: Well look, I think depending on what the surgeon might say, one might see
that happening – if the government’s behind it. I don’t mean to be cynical. But a lot of the
stuff that is going to be in that document has already been leaked. I just don’t know what is
left for Mr Hockey to announce tomorrow night.
MALLEY: I think the theatre of all this is really interesting at a human level. We’ve got the
Prime Minister who has never been one to get too involved in commentaries around the
economy – and that’s no judgment, he just hasn’t been. We’ve got Scott Morrison who’s
been able to fill some pretty difficult portfolios, becoming a spokesperson around and of the
issues. And The Australian, in their Telegraph this morning in the Sydney papers, there was
a photo of the Prime Minister and Scott Morrison at a press conference, and a photo next to
it of Joe Hockey with his tie undone, with a pen in his hand, working really hard. So I think
the theatre around those three is interesting. Your comment about the leakage is completely
accurate. And normally it’s the next day that they’ll get into more of that detail. I can only
presume that the leaking is to prepare people for particular issues. But if they leak it, I would
presume that some of it will be better than they’re leaking. So I think that will be perhaps part
of the strategy - but it’s very unusual, you’re right.
CORDEAUX: But this budget is not going to be the sort of medicine the doctor ordered? It
seems to me it’s going to be a political document.
MALLEY: [Agrees] No question.
CORDEAUX: This is organising some sort of patch-up job for last year, and maybe the last
budget would have been just fine had they perhaps sold it better?
MALLEY: I think there’s no question that there is an issue around the clarity of messaging. I
think the first error any new government makes is to presume, or of any persuasion for that
matter, to presume they won because people wanted them there. Often governments win
because they’re protesting against the outgoing government. And I think perhaps if they had
their time again, they would have perhaps gone hard the first round – but not as hard, and
simplified the message.
And it was only the fact that the Prime Minister’s leadership was under pressure and under
scrutiny that this whole turnaround happened. And the presumption of that government
coming in, was that they were going to make the tough decisions. And my view on
leadership is pretty well known, whether that’s in the book or in my public commentaries, but
you have to have the courage to fail as a leader – particularly as a political leader – and
they’ve changed direction here and they’re talking about boring, predictable budgets as if it’s
some sort of victory commentary. That’s not what the nation needs. The nation needs a
vision -- and it needs a map -- and it needs someone to take us there and be willing to lose,
to take us to the direction we need to get to.
CORDEAUX: Yeah, because what would the point be? What would the point be of being
Prime Minister if you have to water down everything you believed in and end up not fixing
the problem - that in your heart you knew you could, if you’d had the hutzpah to follow
through?
MALLEY: Well I think that’s the interesting part, right? Every leader is dying from the time
they’re appointed. Whether that’s as a CEO, or as a Prime Minister, or any other leadership
role. So, you’ve got two choices Jeremy – you go for it (to put it into the Australian lingo) or
you proceed cautiously and protect yourself. And the irony is when you take the second
option of being cautious, you’re likely to lose more quickly than if you’re bold and brash and
you have a go.
CORDEAUX: Yes.
MALLEY: It’s quite interesting to watch and I think the Opposition now is starting to sense
that they’ve got a chance, so I think their reply speech will be an interesting one as well. I
think the theatre of parliament in Canberra, if it wasn’t so serious, would be great
entertainment really – looking at human movement.
CORDEAUX: Well if they look at the results of the UK election – now the Prime Minister
administered some tough medicine and got re-elected despite the polls saying that he
wouldn’t. He got re-elected having done what I imagine (to some degree anyway) he knew
needed to be done and the people believed him and followed him. I mean it wasn’t a
landslide that he achieved but it does go to show you that you can be a reformist
government and you can do things that are a little unpopular and people will see the wisdom
and the truth behind what you’re doing.
MALLEY: That’s right. And look – that’s the best result they’ve had in 30 years. And you do
wonder what the Prime Minister and the Treasurer might have thought when that result
came through. And I think that was aided also, to be fair to local politics, that the whole
Scottish vote was an interesting one. The commentary by Miliband, referring to himself as a
socialist, had a real impact - from what you read. But in the end, at the core of it, Cameron
came in and he made painful decisions and he relaxed some of them as he went through his
five years, as you do in good politics. But to have a dull and boring budget following a
dramatically tough budget they couldn’t get through, isn’t awe-inspiring.
CORDEAUX: No, the message is a bit confusing. We don’t know whether we have a budget
crisis. We don’t know whether we have a really serious deficit problem or a serious debt
problem. You get the feeling that they don’t want to frighten the horses.
MALLEY: No question. I guess one of the most dramatic lines I’ve heard a politician utter
was just the other day when the interest rates dropped two per cent. I tell you what I see
interest rates as in an economy Jeremy. I see them as a pulse rate.
CORDEAUX: Yes
MALLEY: And two per cent says that we’re barely breathing.
CORDEAUX: We’re flat-lining?
MALLEY: We’re flat-lining. And the Treasurer came out and actually said, “Now’s the time
for individuals and business to borrow money”. And that’s a rather stunning statement in a
context of a pulse rate that’s near zero.
CORDEAUX: I didn’t think treasurers were allowed to give financial advice like that.
MALLEY: Well I thought it was an interesting stretch. Yeah, but you’re right you know. It’s an
interesting stretch to be managing the economy and saying to people, “Go out and borrow”,
because in 12 months time, if something goes wrong, people could fairly say, “Well you’re on
record – you told us to do this”.
CORDEAUX: Absolutely. Alex Malley – he’s the Head of Certified Practising Accountants
Australia.
ENDS