n state College
Of' Fj\CDLr:cCOUNCIL
9 Larch 1950
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ROLL CAUJ
I
~TTER. FRm~
PRE S I DB l,:rr
STRltLD
-;Jith Vice-chairman
'tarthout p:/.'Elsiding the Faculty Council convened
in regular session
t 4:00 .'~fter
a brief coffee per-Iod prova.c.ed
by ?rofessor Thomps.n and her commi.bbee , the fol10';in[; member's
signed the r'oLl.-c al, sheet:
Bollen, Butts, Cal.Larnan, Car,pbell,
Childs, Colby, Coon ,Craft,
Davies, Demuth, Dimick, Friedman,
Gleeson, Jensen, Ko oid (for Cockerline),
Las Let.t , il),emon,l:IcCutcheon,
Dmford, (for GQode), }.:uth, Norton, Smith, ~.vy[ard, Teutsch,
Thomp~on, Yianless, ~,ilkinson, \.illiamG, ';;'ise.
The Vi~e-chairman r ad a communf,c
at.Lon from President strand whd.ch
listed three questi ns on which he would Lfke to have the opd.m.ons
of the Faculty Coun ill
1, ·i'fhat effee
present primary and second ary educational
theory and practd.ce
can be det.ect ed in our college program'?
2. Howmuch Ii, ate ring down" have we done?
3 • i,;hat shoul be done about it~?
'J:'heVice-chairman r ported that the Councd.Lt s executive committee
had df.acuased these t.op.l cs briefly end that the President had
pointed out the neec of t.horough inveBtigations
to determine
(1) the level of P ep ar at.Lon of students coming from Oregon high
schools (2) what II can do to improve our program to take c are
of them. The Presi ent had mentioned. that perhaps money could. be
appropr-Lat.ed for in estigc::tive purposes ~
nrscussron
Excerpts
of the di s
Laslett.
Humerous
ShO'lm,l'oJ.' example;
ACE is about .>0.
'.
there is some' corre
who make the best g
but not necessarily'
15 ye ars old, but t
follon:
urveys have already been made , It has been
that, the correlation
between gr ades and t.he
etween high-school grades and co.l lege C'rPA
at.Lon but not a s:~gnificent. one ~ Students
ades in hd.gh school mske good grades in col lege ,
the hi.ghest ; The:5e.studi"GS'8re about 10 or
'
ey are still
valid.
Teutsch.
In t.r aveLflng over the state and talking wi.t.h parents
for thi'rty ye ars , I ave never noted a time when there is more
concern with the pr bolemof the adjust.ment of high-school graduates
to college than the e Ls at present.
It is a r-eal. problem which
this Council might rofitably
study.
,
I
Gleeson,
Students
ome from oregdn high schools very poorly pre~
pared to undertake
rofessional
s~udy in engineering and science.
Their decimal points float around; they do not know the multi~
Plicati. on ~abl~:;;. ~~ a r~sul~ of poor prepar at Lon ~l:~re is a
50% mortah.ty an En1~neer~ng. .Ie can see a marked o.uference
'I
-'~.
,t!,
Lee\,).ng
ilA
-
2
between preparation
OVl and. "Vihat
it. was 15 years aGO ..hst
we
plan to do about it .s (1) to initiat~l a pre-enginee:cing pat t.e.rn
for those who need r re training before ent.eri.ng engineering and
(2) to give conai.de stdon to deve lopfng a technical ..•
t.ermi.nal,
program which wi Ll,
general rather than confined to one field
of engineering.
Friedman. St ate tea
I know·of one young
not get a hf.gh-echoc
graduate assistant i,
the required courses
she could not get a
under the supervisio
her-certification
Lswe offer a re a1 pr ob'Lems
ady who had majored in chemistry who could
certificate.
She had t-aught. chemistry as a
r two ye;:;rs in college; she had taken all of
in education except supervised teaching, but
'ertificatEl because she had not practicE! taught
of a hi.gh •.•school chemistry teacher.
Colby. Oneweakness in secondary schools is typified by the
fallacious idea that "anybody can teach English."
Re4uired reading
for all those intere ted in this discussion is the article by
.Alfred Lynd on quack ry in education in the current issue of the
Jlt12ntic Lont.h ly ,
regard to the compar <'?ti
ve abilities
of
students coming to c llege now and those of a deC2dE;)
ago I cannot
give much significe t;, ,evi6ence~,put the .fact that the 3nClish Department. nay, places 5% of the epterinG freshmen in English K as
comparedwith 10% so e years aGo seems to be one indicct ion of
poorer preparation.
Friedm~.
In Chemit:rJr 101 we have found it necessary to devote
some time to purely .ri.gh-echoo'I level review of mathemet.Lcs , ',.e
try to get these floatinG deed.mal, points anchored in place.
Campbell0 ','{erenlt t re students who c arneto college ten or fifteen
years ago a more se Lect. group t,han they are now? T)on't we get
more ne arIy a cross sect i.on olE'high-school popu Lati.on now than,IJ8
did then?
I
I
Forton. About 90% 0 the boyl and girls of high school ace in
Oregon are now in hi h school. This is a muchhigher percentage
t.han in the past.
ose coming to college now represent a fairly
good cross section 0 the hibh-school population.
In the past
a group more selecti re in ability to
college work carneto
college.
On the ave ace the group thclt comes today is unqueatdcnably Lower in abilit~ .than it I ~.'fas Ln t.he past _ Another point to
consider is that hig -echoo), principIIs today accept the fact
that 80% of" their pu LLs will not
to college.
do
go
·~;ise.
HomeEconomics students snow lack of adequate pre??r?tion.
I
Cooney. In t.he pan try department we find that students have to
be led by the hand '1: hen they come to college ...-e try to put them
on their own by the end of the sophomore ye2r.
Gleeson. l..
.r , l~orto , what do hiCh schools teach if t.hey do not
prepare their sbude bs for college?
I
Horton. Social pre sures o;:~local communities have a ciefinite
influence on high shoals.
Here f 5 an exal1lple: If a principal
were to tell a PIA eeting that the high school intends to raise
its academic st anda ds and put pressure on atuc'ent s to do better
work, the PTAwould heartily back him.~,hen it comes to the
students who mS'J be flunked. in such a raiSling of at andards , however,
every mother insist
that the chi.Ld failed be some other one than
her own. As a re su t the high schools consider the needs of the
80% who wi Ll, not go to college and concentrate on what might be
termed "surface tea ha.ng," Under present policies no one is
failed. either in hi :h school or elementary schools.
Hence, studern s
slip by and are gr.uated
nithout being relc.uired to meet academic
standards.
.
LasLet.L, Peop'Le
getting soft.
School boards are getting soft.
'1'he policy of many cards seems to be "get.td.ng the most kids through
school for the Leas' money."
This false economy is a mistake. The
18-year law is a st pid one. Student :teachers frequently report
they go into a hieh school and "knock themselves out" on a bunch
of youngsters who h lve no interest in beirtg in school and who ere
rile-rely spending the r time there waiting u!ntil they are 18. Too
mBnyschools under he influence of progressive educ etd.on aim only
at producing cont.en eO,students.
As a result those who come to
col Lege tenet to be elfish Me. self-centered;
they are less nell
adjusted than they ,'ere in t.he past ,
Someye aI'S ClCO an i e a '[Jas su[;Gestec~that lis still
a ::::00(. one. In
the summer after t h y finish high school §ive those vrhoTrent to
come to college a ~ des of' tests to c1etellminetheir abilities
to
do college work , B se advice on the results and thereby excIude
those who have no c ance of success.
Swarthout.
our work?
LetflP
urn to a new C;,uestion: Have rre 1"iC'tereddown
Butts.
I deal prim rily vdth advanced students
that I have done no 'watering down,
and certainly
hope
'. ise.
In HomeEeon mics we have adjusted courses somewhat to fit
stUdents but not to the cletr~ment of the jUbject matter.
Swarthou'~., To impr ve our offerings
at this
college we have three
C
'
Meeting
#54. - 4
Vossible
,1.
2.
choicest
Restrict
e ollmertt to excludEl those not capable of doing
college-cal
re work.
Develop a pre"professional
curriculum to prepare capable,
but untraind,
students for c()lleg~ work.
Develop ten Lna I programs whi~~hwiU give those students
who do not
inish work for a degreb something; worthwhile
to carry aw
with them.
Childs.
Choice #1 i not possible
at this institution.
Preprofessianal
program
'ght include remediallwork under separate
supervision.
It sho ld stress reading; and Fiting
and mathematics.
Terminal programs sh ld not be deve Lope d by each schoo l but
should be organized
s a function of the college itself.
Gleeson.
a fourth pos afb Ie choice to those listed
by
the chairman.
The w ole- 4?roblem of rahing
high-school
standards
l
might be appr-oached , . ough the power ru I As~ociation
of Land Grant
Colleges and Univers' ties.
That 'organhatipn
could do something
about it on a nation 1 scale.
I
Norton.
On the othe
We mig'ht encourage s
by offering
scholars
county of the state.
need to keep at it on a state level.
take coUegej preparation
more seriously
on the best standings in each
I
Wilkipson.
the ideo. that we take over prep~ratory
work harks back
to the days when every college was divided l.nto an academy and a
collegiate
departmen.
We should not !~o back into the high-school
business.
Childs.
Wetve a:lrea y gone into
it.
I'hompaon, Can anyon explain the diff~~rence between junior
senior matric in Can dLan secondary sohools~
and
Smithe
In Canada th high schools. come up to the standards
set by'
the university.
The e is no catering
to Ioeal demands.
If a student
plans to go to the ur i versi'ty he takes the
enior mabr-Le ,
If not, he
may take the junior
atric.
Thl3 cur-r-Lcutum for university
preparation contains four y ar s of solid sub jec'b matter.
High-school
beacher-s must be maj rs in the subject:s whi ch they teach.
rl
The general discussion
which f'o l l owed 'led to the formulation
of two motions, each of which ras duly seconded and passed by the
Council.
I
Motion·l •.
The Council r~commendS to President
Strand
and
the execu
Council s
to give t
other pro
raise thd
ive commi.tt.ee Lhab at a future meetine; oi' the
meonevrorking in ;seco11ary schools be invitee:
e member-s a view of the sociel pressures and
Lerns encountered by' hilCh schools
in trying to
r stan,,:.ara.sof instrucfion.
The COU,neil rec,ou:mend:3 thai the PresL',ent apio.i.nt;
a comnritt< e to make a stuc1y both on a long-term and short-
Lot Lon 2.
te,r.m basi
anc repo
ADJOC;,rT,;':;i,T
of' hi.gh ,SChO~l_C()llegr
scholas~ic' relations
meet.Lng ,
to the Councf.L at a later
The Council adjourn d at
.
~:35
0 'clock.
•.
tJ.
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T -
.r't
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1\.. ...cUrL 0 1"0.
Acting S, cretary