LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL
OFFICIAL REPORT
RECORTYS OIKOIL
Y CHOONCEIL SLATTYSSAGH
PROCEEDINGS
DAALTYN
HANSARD
Douglas, Tuesday, 31st January 2017
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Volume 134, No. 5
ISSN 1742-2272
Published by the Office of the Clerk of Tynwald, Legislative Buildings,
Finch Road, Douglas, Isle of Man, IM1 3PW. © Court of Tynwald, 2017
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, TUESDAY, 31st JANUARY 2017
Present:
The President of Tynwald (Hon. S C Rodan)
The Attorney General (Mr J L M Quinn),
Mr D M Anderson, Mr M R Coleman, Mr C G Corkish MBE, Mr D C Cretney,
Mr T M Crookall, Mr R W Henderson and Mr J R Turner,
with Mr J D C King, Clerk of the Council.
Business transacted
Leave of absence granted .............................................................................................................. 57
Order of the Day ........................................................................................................................ 57
1. Statute Law Revision Bill 2016 – Third Reading approved ........................................................ 57
The Council adjourned at 10.41 a.m. .................................................................................................... 59
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Legislative Council
The Council met at 10.30 a.m.
[MR PRESIDENT in the Chair]
The President: Moghrey mie, good morning, Hon. Members.
Members: Good morning, Mr President.
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The President: In the absence of the Lord Bishop I shall invite the Chaplain to lead us in prayer.
PRAYERS
The Chaplain of the House of Keys
Leave of absence granted
The President: Hon. Members, I have given leave of absence to Mr Wild, who is presently in
Noble’s Hospital but hopefully will be out after tomorrow.
Order of the Day
1. Statute Law Revision Bill 2016 –
Third Reading approved
HM Attorney General to move:
That the Statute Law Revision Bill 2016 be now read a third time.
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The President: The one Item on our Order Paper: Statute Law Revision Bill 2016 for Third
Reading. I call on Her Majesty’s Attorney General.
The Attorney General: Thank you, Mr President.
I beg to move the Third Reading of the Statute Law Revision Bill 2016, which as I explained at the
First and Second Readings is a piece of legislative housekeeping mainly making technical
amendments to the Interpretation Act 2015 and the Legislation Act 2015 in order to facilitate their
commencement.
As I mentioned at the previous readings of the Bill, there are four parts to the Bill: Part 1 is
formal, comprising the short title and commencement provisions; Part 2 amends the Interpretation
Act 2015; Part 3 the Legislation Act 2015; and Part 4 contains a miscellany of amendments, in the
main comprising minor corrections to existing statutes.
I thank Hon. Members for their contributions, in particular when they considered the detailed
provisions of the Bill during the clauses stage and generally. I thank the Hon. Member of Council,
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Mr Turner, for seconding the Bill and the Hon. Member, Mr Henderson, for the amendments which
he moved and which Hon. Members approved.
Mr President, Hon. Members, I beg to move.
The President: Mr Turner.
Mr Turner: Thank you, Mr President. I beg to second the Third Reading and reserve my remarks.
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The President: Hon. Member, Mr Anderson.
Mr Anderson: Thank you, Mr President.
Can I just ask the learned Attorney when he anticipates this entering the other Branch, the Keys.
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The President: Mr Attorney.
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The Attorney General: Thank you, Mr President, and I thank the Hon. Member, Mr Anderson, for
his question, which I cannot answer, unfortunately. I know that it is intended to urge that the matter
is brought to the other House at the earliest opportunity, but I cannot make any commitment as to
time.
The President: Mr Henderson.
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Mr Henderson: Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane.
I just want some clarification with regard to clause 35, relating to the Interception of
Communications Act, where we are now saying that the Chief Minister can designate in his absence
– and the Home Affairs Minister – ‘or other person acting by virtue of this section.’
What I will be wanting to know is does this give carte blanche to whoever – which is mentioned
in the wording – to make such orders in the absence of either the Chief Minister or the Minister?
There could be a perception then that we are looking at somebody with less experience who could
be signing such an order and/or it can give the impression that it is open to abuse in that respect,
given that it is such a sensitive area as to the signing of interception of communications orders in the
first place. I am just wondering whether there will be a policy in place whereby, in the absence of
the Ministers, there is a strict code followed so we do not have just anyone designated to be able to
sign the orders in the absence.
The President: Mr Turner.
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Mr Turner: Thank you, Mr President.
I think Mr Henderson raises a good point and I think we should have something on record about
this specifically. Hon. Members will recall during the earlier readings it was explained that the
authorisation to act under this provision is given by the Chief Minister or the Minister for Home
Affairs, but quite often they may be away at various functions and commitments off Island, so it is
right that there is something in place so that the authorities are able to continue with their work.
I think possibly what Mr Henderson is looking for is that … what we do not have is some
permanent delegation in place, to an officer for example, which can then be used, so that if the Chief
Minister and the Home Affairs Minister are both on the Island then it must be them and not this
delegation – like a permanent authorisation. I think we need just a little bit of clarity there for the
record to ensure that those safeguards are in place.
Does the learned Attorney know whether this delegation would be another Minister of the
Council of Ministers, or would it be somebody more junior, like a Member or even an officer? Could
we just clarify that for the record?
Thank you, Mr President.
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The President: Mr Coleman.
Mr Coleman: Thank you, Mr President.
Again, I am concerned about … not concerned, but would like some confirmation on clause 35. It
is my understanding that there is a very deep security vetting to hold this role for both the Chief
Minister and also for the Minister for Home Affairs, and as that sort of vetting tends to take some
time I think it would probably mean that the alternative person would need to be identified and
vetted before they could actually assume the role, because I understand that there will be, in the
summer, a situation where both of the people are going to be away off Island at the same time.
Thank you very much.
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The President: Mr Cretney, again on clause 35.
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Mr Cretney: It is. I just wanted to pick up on the point that the Hon. Member, Mr Turner, made at
the start of his presentation when he spoke about an official carrying out this responsibility. I really
do believe that there are a number of other Ministers and that this is something which is rightly and
properly conducted by another Minister, and I am sure that arrangements could be made in line
with what Mr Coleman has just said to facilitate that.
The President: Mr Attorney.
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The Attorney General: Yes, thank you, Mr President, and I do thank Hon. Members for their
comments, which I can understand.
It is not a carte blanche appointment that would be made. What the Chief Minister has in mind is
another Minister – if I could put that on the record, please.
The question of vetting is not so much of an issue here; it is more a question of training. Certainly
if I could just tell you that, for example, the newly appointed Minister for Home Affairs,
Mr Malarkey, did take some time to be trained into the role so that he had a full understanding of
what it was all about and the decisions that he then had to make if called upon.
But clearly we do have the situation where, as has happened, both the Chief Minister and the
Minister for Home Affairs have been off Island for the same time, so this is an enabling provision to
enable the Chief Minister to appoint somebody as a deputy or to depute for the Minister for Home
Affairs, and that is very much what he has in mind.
I will certainly bring to the Chief Minister’s attention the concerns which Members have voiced
today. As I say, I think for the record I can say that he has in mind another Minister.
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The President: Thank you, Mr Attorney. With that, would you care to respond?
The Attorney General: Yes, thank you very much, Mr President. I do not think I can add anything
else but beg to move the Third Reading of the Bill.
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The President: Hon. Members, I put the motion that the Statute Law Revision Bill be read for a
third time. Those in favour, please say aye; against, no. The ayes have it. The ayes have it.
Hon. Members, that brings us to the end of this morning’s business. The next sitting will be on
7th February, next week, at 10.30 in our own Chamber. The Council will now stand adjourned until
then.
The Council adjourned at 10.41 a.m.
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