BusinessWeek Debate Room Outsourcing: Where's Uncle Sam? 1 of 40 http://www.businessweek.com/debateroom/archives/2007/02/outsourcin... Register | Sign In Current Issue 4 Free Issues Subscribe Now Top News Top News Home News Archive News Search Special Reports Newsmaker Videos Newsletters The Debate Room Asia Asia Home China India Economics Innovation Investing Asia Tech Blog Newsletters Europe Europe Home Autos Economics Energy Innovation Investing Product Reviews Newsletters Investing Investing Home Markets 2/9/2007 1:06 PM BusinessWeek Debate Room Outsourcing: Where's Uncle Sam? 3 of 40 http://www.businessweek.com/debateroom/archives/2007/02/outsourcin... 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Many prominent corporate executives, politicians, and academics have argued that we have no choice, that with globalization it's critical to tap the lower costs and unique skills of labor abroad to remain competitive. Samuel Palmisano, the chief executive of IBM (IBM), made this point last year when he hosted IBM's investor conference in Bangalore, India, the first ever held outside the U.S. He pointed out that IBM now has 43,000 people working in India who are part of "a new kind of organization," one that's designed not around a single country, "but on a truly planet-wide model." Yet a critical point has been lost in the debate: The interests of U.S. corporations are often not the same as those of the country and its citizens. Hiring staff in India may help companies like IBM, Dell (DELL), Microsoft (MSFT), Accenture (ACN), and others lower their costs and boost their profits, but it hurts the workers who lose jobs and those who lose the prospect of jobs. Economist Paul Samuelson, a Nobel Prize winner, wrote in a 2004 paper that the economic effect of outsourcing is similar to allowing mass immigration of workers willing to compete for service jobs at extremely low wages. They can drive down the income for huge swaths of the middle class, even if they benefit their employers. "Mainstream trade economists have insufficiently noticed the drastic change in mean U.S. incomes and in inequalities among different U.S. classes," he wrote. There's no question that the American people would like their government to take a stand against companies that send jobs overseas. A Zogby International poll found that 71% of Americans believe that outsourcing jobs overseas hurts the U.S. economy, and 62% say the U.S. government should tax or legislate to try to stop the job loss. Yet virtually nothing has been done. "We need some creative solutions here," says Ron Hira, a public policy professor at the Rochester Institute of Technology who is now on leave at the progressive Economic Policy Foundation. While some outsourcing opponents advocate taxes on companies that send jobs overseas, that's controversial because it could end up handicapping U.S. companies and becoming counterproductive. Still, there are other steps that government officials could take. Hira points out that decoupling health-care plans from the employer and making the plans more portable would be an important step, since U.S. companies now bear the costs of health care while rivals in countries with government-sponsored care don't. U.S. visa programs could be modified too. He says that some of the most active users of visas for visiting workers are Indian outsourcing firms, which appear to be training workers in the U.S. and then sending them home to be more effective at taking U.S. jobs. The most important point perhaps is to reexamine the costs of letting American jobs go abroad. "The CEOs of international companies have been dominating the debate and the current situation serves their interests," Hira says. 2/9/2007 1:06 PM BusinessWeek Debate Room Outsourcing: Where's Uncle Sam? 5 of 40 http://www.businessweek.com/debateroom/archives/2007/02/outsourcin... Con: Free Trade Is Always Best The debate over outsourcing is full of misnomers, miscommunications, and misleading assertions. Government should stay out of the way and let markets determine where companies hire their employees. If politicians preening for the public try to make public policy around outsourcing, they're likely to make things worse instead of better. Start with the central idea of the controversy, that U.S. companies are "sending jobs overseas." The phrase itself is almost meaningless. Companies hire abroad and fire in the U.S. for a variety of constantly changing reasons; jobs are almost never moved from one location in the U.S. to India or China or the Czech Republic. Taxing IBM, Microsoft, or Dell because they hire people in India or in other countries is one way to ensure they'll stumble in foreign markets. Increasingly, the reason companies are hiring overseas is because of the talent they find there. In a joint study last year from Duke University's Fuqua School of Business and consulting firm Booz Allen Hamilton, the number of companies that said they were hiring overseas because of "access to qualified personnel" increased 75% over the previous two years. "The business case for offshoring is evolving beyond a pure cost play," the authors wrote. "Companies are leveraging offshoring strategically to create competitive advantage." Plus, there is no way to reverse the laws of economics. Free trade benefits countries, whether that trade is in goods or services. Almost 200 years ago, David Ricardo established the case for free trade by laying out the idea of comparative advantage. If one country is better at making wine and the other bread, both countries come out ahead if they specialize their skills and then trade with each other. Outsourcing is nothing more than trading services, instead of goods, across international borders. Countries that embrace global workforces will benefit economically. Those that try to block international trade in services will suffer serious consequences. "If a society attempts…to shut down economic changes, like those from outsourcing, international trade, and new technology, it can avoid some economic disruption in the short run, but at a cost of blocking overall economic gains," wrote Timothy Taylor, managing editor of the Journal of Economic Perspectives, in an article in the Cato Journal, entitled "In Defense of Outsourcing." Reader Comments Warren McDonald February 5, 2007 09:50 AM Outsourcing is fine if countries can develop a universally agreed upon free trade system. This, of course, is impossible as long as we live under this guise that as residents of one country, we should support and respect one another as one unit known as America. It is understood that as Americans, we will bond as one in order to trade with the rest of the world -- much like a household works as one unit and is most effective when all willingly participate. Outsourcing removes almost all responsibility to fellow Americans. Yes, the corporations still pay their "taxes," but I often wonder if Michael Dell et al could look his own son in the eye and say, "Son,I am going to fill your job with someone in East India, and you will have to work 2/9/2007 1:06 PM BusinessWeek Debate Room Outsourcing: Where's Uncle Sam? 6 of 40 http://www.businessweek.com/debateroom/archives/2007/02/outsourcin... elsewhere." With no government intervention, we will have the same results that we have seen with these self-governed boards of directors that award themselves with lavish and obscene pay packages. Guaranteed. Outsourcing is downright un-American. I think we can learn from controlled outsourcing, but giving corporations carte blanche is a recipe for further fragmentation in a country that is less and less dedicated to the welfare of fellow Americans. And if we don't have strength as a collective unit, we are doomed as a country. Mant February 5, 2007 01:47 PM I think outsourcing has very little to do with competitive advantage and a lot to do with corporate greed. CEOs want to maximize the profit at any cost, no matter what happens to communities and the country in the process. Tapping the talent pool overseas is just a fancy excuse to cover the real reasons. There are enough talented people in America will would be more than happy to oblige if companies want to hire them at a decent wage. Wesley Frederick February 5, 2007 02:44 PM Who do you want to make choices for you? Yourself or some politician? Asking the government to regulate outsourcing is taking the freedom of choice from billions of individuals and putting that power into the hands of a relatively few politicians. Yes, it is awful when people lose their jobs because of outsourcing. But instead of asking the government to limit corporations, we should instead ask the government to support these newly unemployed workers. Retrain these workers and let them take advantage of burgeoning markets and opportunities. Some of these workers might need to move to different areas of the country to capitalize on these opportunities. Let the government provide assistance in this way instead of regulating business. Yes, some corporations are maximizing short-term profits by hiring cheaper labor. Rest assured, these practices are not sustainable in the long run. Some other smart business owner is going to move in and take advantage of the resources that the short-run corps are forfeiting. American Apparel designs and manufactures its clothes in LA. This gives them better quality assurance and a quicker response to trends than those stores that outsource their manufacturing. A smaller business will always be around to take advantage of a larger business' inefficiencies. Finally, if our government regulates outsourcing, we can expect other governments to do the same. Foreign car manufacturers are expanding their operations in the southern states and hiring new workers. Outsourcing trade wars could prevent this type of economic expansion. Let the markets figure out the best way to hire workers. A politician's regulation is inefficient and slow to change. Instead, the politician should pass laws that provide support that will allow the newly unemployed to get the skills they need to compete in the marketplace. Jordan February 5, 2007 02:57 PM Remember the 1910s and 1920s? The U.S. government let go of virtually all control and responsibilities on the economy to the "market." Fat-cat robber barons reaped huge wealth while ordinary people were barely 2/9/2007 1:06 PM BusinessWeek Debate Room Outsourcing: Where's Uncle Sam? 7 of 40 http://www.businessweek.com/debateroom/archives/2007/02/outsourcin... surviving. What followed was the Great Depression. We are halfway there already by pushing unregulated "free trade" and job outsourcing to the extreme. tom elkins February 5, 2007 03:52 PM CEOs (Crooked Executive Officers) love to outsource. That adds to the bottom line for Meg A Buck retirement packages. And do not forget that the workers in other countries are not paying U.S. income tax. The money they receive from our multinational corporations goes untaxed in the U.S. What amount of untaxed wages are leaving the country to outsource people in other countries? When you hear corporate talk about qualified people, they are generally talking about low-wage people. William February 5, 2007 03:53 PM This is definitely still a touchy subject. Sure, CEOs want to maximize profits. That's because they have shareholders to please. I agree that the huge bonuses some CEOs pay themselves are uncalled for. For the most part, however, outsourcing is in fact being used to create a competitive advantage. (You only hear of the grossly absurd paychecks in the news, not of the succesful outsourcing projects.) No longer is Dell competing against companies down the block, but also the Lenovos (IBM Thinkpad) of the world who aren't U.S.-based and have the luxury to source labor from anywhere in the world. Imagine if Dell was taxed or not allowed to offshore outsource its labor. It wouldn't be able to compete with Lenovo, so instead of losing a few thousand call center jobs, the whole Dell Corp. would have to shut down. It's obvious which scenario is better. Second, calling outsourcing Un-American is absolutely absurd. Let's look at the facts. First, the U.S. unemployment rate is at its lowest (not including the misleading .com years) since the 1960s. There are jobs out there. Last time I checked, our economy has been running full speed ahead, and corporations have been offshore outsourcing services since the early 1990s. Second, the U.S. is the biggest exporter of outsourcing services. It would be extremely hypocritical to tell ourselves not to outsource when in fact nations around the world use our services the most. Industries such as entertainment -- U.S. movies, music, and TV shows are all over Europe and Asia. Education -- it's not surprising to see that 30% of students of many major universities are international, and even a higher percentage for graduate students. And the biggest of them all: financial services. These are billion dollar industries that create thousands, if not millions, of jobs here in the U.S. Outsourcing is as American as it gets! There is a reason we are the biggest economy in the world with only 300 million people! Let's not fight outsourcing, but use it to our advantage! Joe February 5, 2007 04:02 PM In the short term, there will be people that are hurt... but we are in this for the long term! Things change in the world and we have to be able to adjust quickly. The internet has drastically changed how we do business today. Because it created efficiencies, many people have lost their jobs due to the internet... does that mean we should not embrace the internet?? of course not! 2/9/2007 1:06 PM BusinessWeek Debate Room Outsourcing: Where's Uncle Sam? 8 of 40 http://www.businessweek.com/debateroom/archives/2007/02/outsourcin... Offshore Outsourcing started in the 1970s with manufacturing. Services started being outsourced in the 1990s. Our economy recovered from the .com bust and 9/11. Two major events that most economies don't recover from. Our economy is as strong as ever and offshore outsourcing has been an integral part of it. Jordan February 5, 2007 07:16 PM I used to wonder why do businesses get to write off all of their expenses, including wages to employees, and other tax breaks that ordinary working Americans can only dream of. The answer was that businesses take on great risks to provide jobs for the country. Fair enough. But wait a minute, they are creating jobs in foreign countries, while getting the tax breaks, financial bail-outs, research grants, and law enforcement provided by American taxpayers. If this is not the largest loophole in history then I don't know what is. American taxpayers are paying to get their jobs taken away from them. Sundar February 5, 2007 08:01 PM People vs. Corporate, this debate will continue, for ever and ever and ever. Let's all understand one simple truth: "The business of business is to provide profit." Let us flip the coin for a second. All these major companies do sell their products in all the outsourced nations. No government has imposed any rule that if-you-sell-here-spend-your-profit-here. Any American who has invested in companies such as IBM and Accenture does reap the benefit whereever he/she is from. When we all want to globalize our investment, globalize our profits, globalize our product reach, why should we stop from globalizing how thse investment opportunities, profits, and products are created? Mark February 5, 2007 08:04 PM If we allow American companies to outsource to countries that don't have laws (or don't enforce laws) for environmental protection, worker safety, and child labor, American workers simply cannot compete. It's not a level playing field. And if we continue to allow unrestricted outsourcing, the playing field WILL be leveled by the degradation of the American worker and American society. Rich D'Andrea February 5, 2007 09:47 PM Outsourcing just helps the rich do what they do best: crush the middle class. Jordan February 5, 2007 11:18 PM Sundar, do Americans who have invested in companies such as IBM and Accenture reap the benefits? Take a look at their stock prices. Over the past 5 years, IBM went from $110 to $100 today. Accenture went from $30 to $38. If outsourcing is doing so well, how come investors are getting -1% to 1% annual return? Guess where the profits have gone: into the corporate executives' pockets. 2/9/2007 1:06 PM BusinessWeek Debate Room Outsourcing: Where's Uncle Sam? 9 of 40 http://www.businessweek.com/debateroom/archives/2007/02/outsourcin... Aravind February 6, 2007 06:05 AM The PRO section beefs up its argument with this number, that percentage, and a research study. Where's something like that to substantiate the CON? Vishnu February 6, 2007 09:33 AM A World in Which the U.S. Bans Outsourcing: A Case Study The current picture: Almost all electronic appliances, toys, tools, and other essentials sold in the U.S. are manufactured outside the U.S. Many companies have their projects, call centers, and research facilities outside the U.S. Scenario: 1. Let us say the U.S. passes a law asking companies to stop outsourcing. U.S.-based manufacturers raise the price of basic notebooks to $2,000 against the competition's (Lenovo, Toshiba, etc.), under $1,000. Cars from Ford and GM are priced $30,000 against competition (Toyota and Honda) priced $20,000. When the shakeup is through, the forecast says the only commercially viable U.S. industries are banking, finance, and arms, unless the U.S. government helps. 2. Government's options: Either subsidize all businesses or impose heavy duty on all imports. U.S. Government opts for the second. 3. International reaction All countries in Asia or Europe Ban U.S. imports. They have freed trade within themselves but oust the U.S. from the group. 4. Within the U.S.: The marketplace has suddenly shrunk. All industries scale down production. Automate heavily to remain somewhat competitive. Lay off many employees. 5. After a couple of years the U.S. options: Kick-start World War III or go back to World Trade Organization now as the outsider and get back into the game as an also-ran and not the leader. I am not an analyst, but my opinion is that what the U.S. needs now is not cancelling outsourcing but subsidizing education for U.S. citizens. Have $500 billion of Bush's proposed $3 trillion budget routed to subsidizing education, revamp the education system. Make schools places of learning instead of places for social get-togethers. That is going to level the field for U.S. workers; banning outsourcing won't. Note: What this debate against outsourcing reminds me of is a strike/march in the early 1990s in my home state in India. The strike was organized by students against a government directive to computerize all government establishments. The reason given was that computerization will cause unemployment. It is ironic that more than 50% who participated in that strike, including me, are now employed in the IT field. Kiran February 6, 2007 10:24 AM It is interesting to see the developed Western countries being more protective about their economy than the 2/9/2007 1:06 PM BusinessWeek Debate Room Outsourcing: Where's Uncle Sam? 10 of 40 http://www.businessweek.com/debateroom/archives/2007/02/outsourcin... developing countries. Outsourcing has helped many middle class families in the Western world lose their jobs—similarly when large Western corporations enter developing markets, they crush the domestic competition because of their low cost and superior products, helping millions of domestic companies go bankrupt. So in the end, few people lose and few people win. It is wise to accept realities and adapt and develop strategies in one's life or business to overcome these phenomena. Jordan February 6, 2007 12:14 PM We should not ban outsourcing, just as we should not ban big corporate mergers or even some monopolies. But unregulated outsourcing is a beast of its own that can do a lot of damage to the U.S. and therefore the world economy. U.S. workers have nowhere to hide once good-paying high tech jobs are taken away. An economy with only senior corporate executives and chefs and waiters cannot sustain itself. Eventually, the U.S. economy will collapse without a middle class, and so will the global economy. The government should create incentives for businesses to hire Americans instead of encouraging them to outsource jobs. How about reserving the tax breaks and financial assistance for those who hire Americans? Piyush February 6, 2007 02:49 PM The article started with a quote from IBM Chief Executive Samuel Palmisano, stating that 43,000 Indian employees are part of a planet-wide organization. This doesn't mean they have taken the jobs of 43,000 U.S. citizens. Had the U.S. had this many skilled people to serve the needs of IBM anywhere in the world (not only in the U.S.), probably IBM would have hired them from the U.S. Consider different scenarios as well. Eastern IT companies are now hiring in the West to serve Western clients. It is not right to say that outsourcing is harmful. It has to be balanced. Dave Armstrong February 6, 2007 03:25 PM I think the United States is getting a taste of what it started initially—free trade. India was a closed economy until the 1990s, and it was forced to open itself or go down. India obliged, and now we can't complain if we're losing our jobs. It's a global economy, and the whole world is a marketplace. Time to get out of the U.S. if you can't find a job here. Reality February 6, 2007 05:10 PM Let us see when outsourcing will not be an issue. Let a child in Africa or any other corner of the world have the same opportunities/ privileges to life, health, education, etc. as any kid in America. How is that for a level playing field, huh? Then, we can talk about fair competition and letting the best person/company win. The knee-jerk protectionist measures are not going to work. Why is the U.S. an economic world leader? Not because Americans are more intelligent than the rest of the humans on the planet but because America lets people create their destinies by allowing free market policies that attract the best of the talent, create 2/9/2007 1:06 PM BusinessWeek Debate Room Outsourcing: Where's Uncle Sam? 11 of 40 http://www.businessweek.com/debateroom/archives/2007/02/outsourcin... innovations, and thus help American companies stay competitive. If the U.S. closes the economic borders or tries to regulate tham (ban outsourcing and invite tit-for-tat bans from other governments), we can go back to old times when there was no collective growth in the world. For years, the developed countries pushed the developing countries to open up their markets so they could get access to half of the world market (India, China, and Africa have a combined population close to 3 billion). The developing countries heed the call, open up, and compete in the free market with their strengths (human capital, skills, low cost, good quality, etc.). We now are scared! Well, welcome to globalization. Companies have to respond to market realities or perish. As markets open up, the fundamental business principle is to do business where it makes sense. Why should I get a service that costs 10 times more when I can get the same service elsewhere? If American companies don't go there, forget about being global; they won't even be a competitive American company. India and China are the current flavor, but we will move beyond those, and it will be a different set of countries. The sooner we accept this new reality, the better off we all will we be. There is no denying that globalization hurts people in the short term; it always has. But we all should stop griping about it and find new opportunities in a brave new world. Jordan February 6, 2007 09:02 PM Congress today announced that the Office of the President of the United States of America will be outsourced to India as of June 30, 2007. The move is being made to save the President's $400,000 yearly salary, and also a record $521 trillion in deficit expenditures and related overhead the office has incurred during the last six years Gurvinder Singh of Indus Teleservices, Mumbai, India, will be assuming the Office of President as of November 1, 2006. Mr. Singh was born in the United States while his Indian parents were vacationing at Niagara Falls, thus making him eligible for the position. He will receive a salary of $320 (USD) a month with no health coverage or other benefits. It is believed that Mr. Singh will be able to handle his job responsibilities without a support staff due to the time difference between the U.S. and India. He will be working primarily at night, when few offices of the U.S. Government will be open. A Congressional spokesperson noted that while Mr. Singh may not be fully aware of all the issues involved in the office of the President, this should not be a problem because Bush was not familiar with the issues either. Using canned responses, he can address common concerns without having to understand the underlying issues at all. "We know these scripting tools work," stated the spokesperson. "President Bush has used them successfully for years." Bush will receive health coverage, expenses, and salary until his final day of employment. Following a two-week waiting period, he will be eligible for $140 a week unemployment for 13 weeks. Unfortunately, he will not be eligible for Medicaid, as his unemployment benefits will exceed the allowed limit. Mr. Bush has been provided the outplacement services of Manpower Inc. to help him write a resume and prepare for his upcoming job transition. According to Manpower, Mr. Bush may have difficulties in securing a new position due to limited practical work experience. 2/9/2007 1:06 PM BusinessWeek Debate Room Outsourcing: Where's Uncle Sam? 12 of 40 http://www.businessweek.com/debateroom/archives/2007/02/outsourcin... A "greeter" position at Wal-Mart was suggested due to Bush's extensive experience shaking hands. Unfortunately, Wal-Mart does not have a "decider" position, job description available at this time. Trendstar February 7, 2007 09:29 AM Ford is a great example of losing out in the global playing field. Due to a bad reputation for laying off workers at home, they are simply confounded when American consumers would rather buy an American made Toyota Camry. We don't care that the profits go to a foreign company where the CEOs only make four times the salary of a regular employee, because it denies the Ford CEO who makes 400 times the salary of a recently layed off worker, and justifies the purchase of a Japan owned product. Hotdogg February 7, 2007 10:51 AM Nothing will ever change in this country unless the American people take a stand. We will eventually become a Third World country, because all we manage to do is sit back and let someone else handle the country's problems. We need a labor force modeled exactly like France's. When the people feel threatened, they take immediate action and go on strike, and it's supported by all. They block every road, train, bus, and truck route until their demands are met. We can debate all we want, but it will never change unless the people all over the U.S. are willing to help make it happen—and the corporations know it will never happen. By the way, Bush has more money than he knows what to do with and will never have to take unemployment. Riya February 7, 2007 11:14 AM The U.S. was the one that started on the issue of free trade. Well, everyone, welcome to globalization. It doesn't mean free trade as long as America is the only one benefiting. It's supposed to help the developing countries also. Pankaj February 7, 2007 12:34 PM Outsourcing is the only option U.S. companies have to compete globally and also keep tabs on growing costs. We cannot stop outsourcing, but what the U.S. can do is provide subsidized education for its citizens. Increase the number of graduates coming out of universities. Generate more math and science graduates to compete with global workers. It is high time we take some action. jim February 7, 2007 03:01 PM Textiles, consumer electronics, computer programming. 2/9/2007 1:06 PM BusinessWeek Debate Room Outsourcing: Where's Uncle Sam? 13 of 40 http://www.businessweek.com/debateroom/archives/2007/02/outsourcin... Once we did 'em here. No more. What's next? Peter, I February 7, 2007 07:07 PM We are buying cheaper products because of outsourcing, and the cheaper product will prevail in time whether we like it or not. Even the people opposed to outsourcing have a significant percentage of their goods made in another country. If you doubt it, look around. As the big picture tells us, if we don't strive to look for those sectors that are bringing the most profit, our economy will tumble very fast. Empires came and go, and it is up to us to keep ours for as long as we can, and the only way I see this happening, is not through crying for the things that we cannot change (price is king regardless of our personal feelings) but through accepting things the way they are, looking for the future by educating our workforce. (I mean higher education. A guy in China can do a factory job for $10 week as well as a U.S. worker does for $10 an hour.) As long as the profitable businesses are owned by American corporations, everything will came back. It is just a matter of time. Join the Debate Name Email Comment Submit Comments Recent Debates Attention Shoppers: Quit Whining 4 comments Outsourcing: Where's Uncle Sam? 26 comments 2/9/2007 1:06 PM BusinessWeek Debate Room Outsourcing: Where's Uncle Sam? 14 of 40 http://www.businessweek.com/debateroom/archives/2007/02/outsourcin... 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