OGDEN ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
December 4, 2014
Members Present
Mark Young
Duane Fregoe, Chairman
Tom Hall
Corey McAtee
Kristen Zale
Members Absent
Noelle Burley
Justin Feasel
Others Present
Patrick Smith, Building Inspector
Cathy Wilson, Building Clerk
Bridget Field, Zoning Board Attorney
Michelle Laske, Building Clerk
Michael A. Mordenga
Al Gauvin
Cheryl LaTray
Kenneth Corwin
Sharon Stevens
Thom Stevens
Pat Sexstone
Ruth Guy
Buddy (Hugh) Burns
Others Present
John Stone
Jill Cordts
Martin Yesowitch
Lauren E. Yesowitch
Steve D’Amico
Judy Feketi
Annette Mazza
Steve Mazza
Emery Kapral
Regina Pegler
Juergen Pegler
Stephanie Winn
This meeting was published in the Sunday, November, 2014 edition of the Suburban News.
The Ogden Zoning Board of Appeals was called to order at 7:06 PM.
I. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
Mr. Fregoe mentioned location of all the emergency exits.
Mr. Fregoe: We have one old item and five new items tonight. And just a little clerical item, item #1
on the new business tonight is going to move down to item #5 because of the nature of the issue and
the time it could consume tonight. They’ve agreed to go last on the agenda and we appreciate that.
Thank you. So let’s start out with some old business here. I’m going to read the notice in its entirety
and while I’m doing that you can meander up to the microphone here. And give us your name,
address, tell us a little bit about what you’re trying to do and we’ll have some questions, you’ll have
some answers and with a little bit of luck we’ll have you out of here with a vote tonight.
So with that said…
II. OLD BUSINESS
Appeal of Leslie Ball of JLU Childcare, 2800 Spencerport Road #B5, Spencerport,
NY 14559, for a conditional use permit to the existing daycare on property
located at same to add a gymnastics area and increase hours in this area to
include evenings and weekends. As required by Chapter 210-31 D (8), in a
Restricted Business District.
Tax Acct. # 087.14-2-2.1
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Mr. Fregoe: And who is here for that? Please come up. And you are?
Mr. Mordenga: Michael Mordenga. 123 Pointe Vintage Drive in Greece.
Mr. Fregoe: Ok, we had a lady here the last time. She owned the building or rented the building?
Mr. Mordenga: Leslie owns the business that’s in the part of the building. And I own the business that is
moving into that part of the building that’s in question.
Mr. Fregoe: Ok, I think we had some questions about hours, if I’m not mistaken from the last time.
Trying to figure out what your hours of operation were going to be and stuff like that.
Mr. Mordenga: Ok, the total building including Leslie’s part of it, we are going to share that space. She
would have the morning part of it and we will have the afternoon and evening use. She requires from 6
am through the afternoon and we would be around 2:00 until up to maybe 9 pm daily, where we would be
using it. On weekends, it could be potentially the same but Sundays are not regular hours for us. That
would be like a special event, more in the afternoon. But Saturday we start operation there at 9 am and
currently we go until early afternoon.
Mr. Fregoe: Ok, if I heard you correctly, Monday through Friday from 2pm to 9pm. And then from
Saturday from 9am until…throw a number at me.
Mr. Mordenga: I would say 5:00.
Mr. Young: You realize whatever you say, we are holding you to it.
Mr. Mordenga: Yes, I’m sure you will. And Leslie’s part would be 6am daily, Monday through Friday.
Mr. Fregoe: Ok, and what about Sunday now?
Mr. Mordenga: Sunday is not a normal scheduled day for us. If we were to do something on a Sunday, it
would just be a special event, like a two hour event. But it would fall within the same idea as the
Saturday hours, like a 9am to 5 pm. And that would be rare that we would have that event.
Mr. Fregoe: Ok. Comments or questions from the board here?
Mr. Young: I don’t have a problem. We were ok with it, we just needed some answers.
Mr. Hall: I’m fine with it.
Mr. Fregoe: If you would have been on your cell phone, we would have had this resolved last month.
Mr. Mordenga: Sorry.
Mr. Fregoe: Anybody in the audience to speak for or against this applicant? Silence Ok. I think we’re
pretty good except we have one of these EAF’s, don’t we? No, I don’t. We don’t have one.
Mr. McAtee: Here you go.
Mr. Fregoe: Did we get one? A late email?
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Mr. McAtee: Well, it was a reasonable time.
Mr. Fregoe: That’s Labs of Love though.
Mr. McAtee: Second page.
Mr. Young: The one I have is Denishire.
Mr. Fregoe: Denishire is the second one.
Ms. Field: It’s for a Use permit. Use permit is unlisted –inaudible--inaudible—
Mr. Fregoe: So they have still have to finish this, you’re saying?
Mr. Smith: You have to do Part 2 and on the one they filled out, they actually filled out the first two
answers incorrectly.
Mr. Fregoe: Oh, they did Part 2 for us, didn’t they? That was nice of them.
Mr. Young: Was it right?
Mr. Smith: The answer to the first two, one they didn’t fill out and one they filled out incorrectly. They
should both be no.
Mr. Fregoe: Ok. I can agree with their checkmarks. Ok, let’s go through this. Does the proposed action
only involve the legistative adoption of a plan, local law, ordinance, administrative rule, or regulation? If
yes, attach a narrative. If no, continue to question 2. I guess it’s a no, right?
Mr. Young: Correct.
Mr. Fregoe: Does the proposed action require a permit, approval or funding from any other governmental
Agency? I’ve got a yes on that. That should be a no?
Mr. Smith: That should be a no. And then you should be able to skip down to Part 2 which you have to
fill out.
Mr. Fregoe: Ok, I’ll cross this out and initial. Ok, part 2. Will the proposed action create a material
conflict with an adopted land use plan or zoning regulations? I will say no on that.
Will the proposed action result in a change in the use or intensity of use of land? I’ll say no, it’s already a
small business now with daycare going on.
Will the proposed action impair the character or quality of the existing community? Again, no.
Will the proposed action have an impact on the environmental characteristics that caused the
establishment of a Critical Environmental Area (CEA)? Again, no.
Will the proposed action result in an adverse change in the existing level of traffic or affect existing
infrastructure for mass transit, biking or walkway? Again, no, it’s already being used as a daycare.
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Will the proposed action cause an increase in the use of energy and it fails to incorporate reasonably
available energy conservation or renewable energy opportunities? Again, no.
Will the proposed action impact existing: a. public/private water supplies? I’ll say no. b. public/private
wastewater treatment utilites? Again, no.
Jump in here if I make a mistake.
Will the proposed action impair the character or quality of important historic, archaeological, architectural
or aesthetic resources? Again no.
Will the proposed action result in an adverse change to natural resources (e.g., wetlands, waterbodies,
groundwater, air quality, flora and fauna)? Again, no.
Will the proposed action result in an increase in the potential for erosion, flooding or drainage problems?
No.
Last question here. Will the proposed action create a hazard to environmental resources or human health?
Again, no.
And there’s a place here to scribble in some stuff and we’ll just say no impact, right?
Mr. Smith: Correct.
Mr. Fregoe: Ok, should we go to our SEQR now?
RESOLUTION #1A
Introduced by Mr. Young
Seconded by Mr. Hall
That the Board classifies the application of Leslie Ball of JLU Childcare, 2800 Spencerport Rd #B5,
Spencerport, NY 14559, as a Unlisted, Negative Declaration SEQR action.
Vote of the Board
Ayes:
Fregoe, Hall, McAtee, Young, Zale
Nays:
None
Absent:
Feasel, Burley
RESOLUTION #1B
That the appeal of Leslie Ball of JLU Childcare, 2800 Spencerport Road #B5, Spencerport, NY
14559, for a conditional use permit to the existing daycare on property located at same to add a
gymnastics area and increase hours in this area to include evenings and weekends. As required by
Chapter 210-31 D (8), in a Restricted Business District.
Tax Acct. # 087.14-2-2.1
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That the hours of operation for the gymnastics will be Monday through Friday 2pm – 9pm.
That the hours of operation for the gymnastics will be Saturday and Sunday 9am – 5pm.
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Introduced by Mr. Fregoe
Seconded by Mr. Young
Vote of the Board
Ayes:
Fregoe, Hall, McAtee, Young, Zale
Nays:
None
Absent:
Burley, Feasel
III. PUBLIC HEARING
Mr. Fregoe: Moving down to #2 tonight.
Appeal of Lauren Yesowitch, 3956 Canal Road, Spencerport, NY 14559, for a Special Use Permit
renewal, to operate an in-home business consisting of Dog Breeding, at property located at same;
whereas, this is an in-home occupation that may be allowed with a permit granted by the Zoning Board of
Appeals pursuant to Chapter 210-51 in an R-1 Residential District.
Tax Acct.# 086.01-1-26.1
Mr. Yesowitch: Good evening.
Mr. Fregoe: And you are?
Mr. Yesowitch: Martin Yesowitch and this is my wife, Lauren Yesowitch. Thank you for giving us this
opportunity to speak. This is our second renewal or request to operate Labs of Love at our address, 3956
Canal Road. We are licensed by New York State Dept. of Agricultural and Markets, Pet Dealer #0755.
The parcel that we own, there’s actually two parcels that are connected. It’s a 22 acre parcel of land. It
starts at Canal Road and goes back behind the Trimmer Road American Legion Post. Tonight what I
brought with us for this renewal is two of our sources of insurance that we carry on the property. I’ve also
brought a letter from our Animal Control Officer, John, stating that we have no complaints and no issues
again. I’ve also brought three letters from our neighbors stating that they are agreeable to us continuing.
I’d like to state that we have had no complaints in the past three (3) years from any of our neighbors. We
have had no complaints from New York State Dept. of Ag & Markets or from any of our customers that
we’ve had in the last three (3) years. We are also inspected besides the Dept. of Ag & Markets, we’re
inspected by the American Kennel Club. They send a representative up to visit our farm and inspect our
facilities and we’ve had no complaints from them. We’re also licensed by the Town of Ogden, again as a
pet breeder and respectfully request a renewal of our license.
Mr. Fregoe: Ok, you stated this is your second renewal? This is probably your first renewal. You were
granted this thing three years ago or was that a renewal?
Mr. Yesowitch: That was a renewal three years ago.
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Mr. Fregoe: You had it before then than.
Mr. Yesowitch: We started then we got a renewal, now this is our second renewal.
Mr. Fregoe: So the first period went for how long?
Mr. Yesowitch: One (1) year.
Mr. Fregoe: Now we did three years, right?
Mr. Yesowitch: Approximately.
Mr. McAtee: Stretched it a little bit?
Mr. Yesowitch: Yes, we thought we would receive a note right away and we didn’t. And we do our other
licensing on a yearly basis so this may have been a little longer. We complied with our short EAF form,
which we brought a copy to the office. And if anyone would like to see our insurance policies, we have
those available. Do I need to present those?
Mr. Fregoe: I’m fine with it.
Mr. Young: I think the last time at renewal, we had several questions from the audience. They seemed to
be gone.
Mr. Yesowitch: Not for our pet breeding license. We approached the board a few years ago and we asked
about possibly opening a pet cemetery at that time. During that discussion, there were some questions
and we backed off and we took back our application. There were some environmental concerns. We have
looked into it but we’ve decided at this time not to do that. Those were the questions, Mr. Young.
Mr. McAtee: I seem to recall though some questions with regards to trees and shrubbery along the border
and the neighbors.
Mr. Yesowitch: We’ve increased the number of trees. We’ve planted many additional trees and the
neighbors that back up to the areas that are in question are the neighbors that I’ve gotten the approvals
from. So we’ve added numerous pine trees to that area. We followed Jack Crooks’ recommendation. He
said rather than put fencing up, like wooden fencing, he would prefer natural trees. And we have
continued to add trees every year.
Mr. McAtee: So whatever concerns the neighbors had, you have addressed.
Mr. Yesowitch: We’ve had no complaints at all.
Mr. Young: You haven’t had anything in three years so…
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Mr. Yesowitch: We’ve had nothing except one complaint ever in the six years that we’re here. Nothing
negative, only positive.
Mr. Young: I assume the business is going well, since you’re back here to renew it.
Mr. Yesowitch: Yes sir. Thank you. Labador Retrievers are wonderful animals.
Mr. Young: If they didn’t shed, they’d be great.
Mr. Fregoe asked for comments from the audience and there were none.
Mr. Hall: I think we should consider five (5) years. They’ve got a good record with us.
Mr. Young: I have no problem with that.
Mr. Yesowitch: Thank you. I appreciate that.
Mr. Young: I only have one question on your EAF form.
Mr. Yesowitch: Yes?
Mr. Young: You said there was no solid waste problems? With all those dogs?
Mr. Yesowitch: What we do sir, is many times throughout the day, in the morning, in the afternoon,
evening and night, we go out shovels in hand. We have many dis-(?) on the areas that we use. We don’t
let any dogs run loose. All of dogs are in runs. The front run we have approximately 24’ x 40’. New
York State provided that fencing to us. The second area is a 24’ x 60’ fenced in area. In our back kennel,
we have 7 runs that are 5’ x 20’ so we have shovels at each of these areas. We have waste receptacles at
each of these areas and they receive the heaviest-duty black plastic bag that we can find and they are
filled 1/3 of the way maybe in a few days and we wrap it up and send it out. So our environment has not
been affected at all by that.
Mrs. Yesowitch: Garbage pick-up is Wednesday mornings.
Mr. Yesowitch: Yes, Wednesday mornings is the pick-up. And they have not complained either. So we
are ok.
Mr. Fregoe: What’s the most number of dogs that you have there at any one time?
Mr. Yesowitch: We are licensed with the Town. We have 17 total. If there are some puppies, we do have
puppies, but we keep them inside in an air-conditioned, heated, air-filtrated area.
Mr. Fregoe: Is there a maximum number on that license?
Mr. Yesowitch: I don’t know. But we are not going any higher than we are right now, that’s for sure.
Mr. Fregoe: You’ll need more bags.
Mr. Yesowitch: Thanks a lot.
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Mr. Fregoe: I don’t have a Part 2 on the form that I got emailed to me this morning. I see a Part 1 but no
Part 2 for me to read a bunch of questions.
Mr. Young: I don’t either. I think it got cut off.
Mr. Fregoe: Ok, I just have to read Part 2, right? The rest is taken care of?
Mr. Young: Nothing changed from last time, did it?
Ms. Field: We don’t think it was done last time.
Mr. Smith: No, we don’t believe there’s ever been one done.
Mr. Young: Really?
Mr. Yesowitch: That is correct. We were not asked for one last time and we were asked for one this time
we provided it within 24 hours.
Ms. Field: I think it was –inaudible--Mr. Fregoe: Ok. Will the proposed action create a material conflict with an adopted land use plan or
zoning regulations? No.
Will the proposed action result in a change in the use or intensity of use of land? No.
Will the proposed action impair the character or quality of the existing community? No.
Will the proposed action have an impact on the environmental characteristics that caused the
establishment of a Critical Environmental Area (CEA)? No.
Will the proposed action result in an adverse change in the existing level of traffic or affect existing
infrastructure for mass transit, biking or walkway? No.
Will the proposed action cause an increase in the use of energy and it fails to incorporate reasonably
available energy conservation or renewable energy opportunities? Again, no.
Will the proposed action impact existing: a. public/private water supplies? I’ll say no. b. public/private
wastewater treatment utilites? No.
Will the proposed action impair the character or quality of important historic, archaeological, architectural
or aesthetic resources? No.
Will the proposed action result in an adverse change to natural resources (e.g., wetlands, waterbodies,
groundwater, air quality, flora and fauna)? No.
Will the proposed action result in an increase in the potential for erosion, flooding or drainage problems?
No.
Will the proposed action create a hazard to environmental resources or human health? NO.
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We’ll just make a note here, no impact. Ok, and we’ll sign that later.
RESOLUTION #2A
Introduced by Mr. Young
Seconded by Mr. Hall
That the Board classifies the application of Lauren Yesowitch, 3956 Canal Road, Spencerport, NY
14559, as a Unlisted, Negative Declaration SEQR action.
Vote of the Board
Ayes:
Fregoe, Hall, McAtee, Young, Zale
Nays:
None
Absent:
Feasel, Burley
RESOLUTION #2B
That the appeal of Lauren Yesowitch, 3956 Canal Road, Spencerport, NY 14559, for a Special Use
Permit renewal, to operate an in-home business consisting of Dog Breeding, at property located at
same; whereas, this is an in-home occupation that may be allowed with a permit granted by the
Zoning Board of Appeals pursuant to Chapter 210-51 in an R-1 Residential District.
Tax Acct.# 086.01-1-26.1
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All customers and employees parking should be limited to the driveway.
No persons other than members of the immediate family residing on the premises may be
employed;
Hours of operation: Monday through Friday 9am – 7pm; Saturday and Sunday 9am – 5 pm
This is a special use permit that we will grant for a period of five (5) years
Business must stay in compliance with provisions set forth in the code of the Town of Ogden.
Introduced by Mr. Fregoe
Seconded by Ms. Zale
Vote of the Board
Ayes:
Fregoe, Hall, McAtee, Young, Zale
Nays:
None
Absent:
Burley, Feasel
Mr. Fregoe: #3 Appeal of Emery Kapral, STM Tuned, Inc., 43 Turner Drive, Spencerport, NY 14559 for
a conditional use permit to allow retail sales of motor vehicles associated with the existing performance
automotive business. Pursuant to Chapter 210-34.D in a Light Industrial District.
TaxAcct. #087.04-1-15.712
Good evening. And you are?
Mr. Kapral: Emery Kapral.
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Mr. Fregoe: And what’s your address? For the record.
Mr. Kapral: 43 Turner Drive, Spencerport, NY 14559
Mr. Fregoe: I actually missed this meeting, back in June?
Mr. Kapral: Well, this is for something completely different.
Mr. Fregoe: Ok, so maybe explain a little bit about what the business does there right now.
Mr. Kapral: Mainly we are based in manufacturing. We build performance parts for race cars and ship
them all throughout the world actually. While doing that, what we are actually here for today, is we
purchase vehicles constantly to develop parts on and test and things like that. We’re trying to make it so I
can get a dealer’s license so I can avoid paying sales tax on vehicles every time we purchase them and sell
them four (4) months later. Basically, that’s what we are here for. Mainly we are in manufacturing and
we need vehicles, we need to purchase vehicles to manufacture the parts on them and test and so on.
Mr. Fregoe: That dealer license will require a sign?
Mr. Kapral: I don’t know. This is the first step to a dealer license.
Mr. Fregoe: Maybe I’m thinking of an automotive inspection/repair service. Right? About the signage?
Mr. Kapral: Right.
Mr. Fregoe: Ok, maybe a dealer doesn’t need signage.
Mr. McAtee: Well, it may have a sign that would attach to the building but not something that would
necessarily go out front of the building advertising the business.
Mr. Fregoe: How many vehicles are we talking in a year’s time here?
Mr. Kapral: Typically, we buy two or three vehicles. We may buy more for the year. We have on here at
the most five at a time would be at the building. Nothing to overrun, or anything like that. I can probably
say probably two at a time, if that. Honestly, I don’t have the time for it. The main thing is to be able to
develop new parts and so on.
Mr. McAtee: So are you trying to run a retail sales outlet here?
Mr. Kapral: Not necessarily. What we are using this for is, again, to buy a vehicle so we can manufacture
the parts for that vehicle for testing, fitting, and so on. And then when we are done with that, we have to
get rid of the vehicle somehow. If I buy a vehicle and trade it in every time, I’m losing sales tax money
and things like that so I’m trying to avoid that right now.
Mr. Young: Would you be buying vehicles to fix them up and resell them?
Mr. Kapral: It’s a possibility, not fix them up but build them into race cars and sell them to the public
across the country. That’s a possibility as well.
Mr. Hall: These are all special vehicles. There’s nothing standard about them. You’ve got to want speed
and power to go to him. And he’s going to give it to you, I’m sure at a price.
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Mr. Young: Do you do tractors?
Mr. Kapral: No, not yet.
Ms. Zale: How many cars do you have on site right now? Without this license?
Mr. Kapral: Right now I believe there’s eight vehicles there total. And I think five of them are inside.
Ms. Zale: So five in addition to that?
Mr. Kapral: I don’t think that we are going to have five in addition to that. Maybe two at a time. I just
wanted to give us room in case. It’s a possibility I guess.
Mr. Young: Just remember you’re asking for 2 more or 3 more.
Mr. Kapral: What’s that?
Mr. Young: If we’re making a decision, how many cars additionally?
Mr. Kapral: Well we have it in here, up to five. Ok?
Mr. Young: But you are thinking no more than two.
Mr. Kapral: I’m thinking no more than two. We have plenty of space to house the five cars, if we have
that many. And we’ll actually be coming back here soon with…we’re going to try to build another 3,000
sq. ft. building in back of this one. So, we’re going to try to add more space to where we are too.
Mr. Fregoe: Where do you advertise these vehicles that you are going to sell?
Mr. Kapral: Online.
Mr. Fregoe: We won’t see big balloons and streamers and banners hanging across Turner Drive, at the
entrance out there?
Mr. Kapral: Oh no. No sir.
Mr. Young: He’s not going to be huge.
Mr. Kapral: We don’t have any local advertising besides online, internet forums, and things like that. We
currently do pretty well without it.
Mr. Fregoe: You’re not looking to do any drive-by traffic back there to look these things.
Mr. Kapral: Not at all.
Mr. Young: I think what we are trying to avoid is that making sure there’s not a used car business that
opens up there next year.
Mr. Kapral: No, that’s not what’s going to happen. Like I said, I’m not interested in that either. I don’t
have the time for it.
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Mr. Fregoe: Ok, maybe a quick question here. I know you said you have 8 vehicles right now, in a 12
month period, how many would you flip?
Mr. Kapral: Probably….we’ll say five. I’m not really sure.
Mr. Fregoe: Really? That’s all, five?
Mr. Hall: But there is a turnover. You don’t keep a vehicle there for….
Mr. Kapral: I personally haven’t owned a vehicle for more than 6 months since I’ve been 20. So, no I
don’t keep vehicles.
Mr. Hall: And the other vehicles are owned by someone else that you are modifying, is that correct?
Mr. Kapral: Yes, the vehicles that are currently there.
Mr. Hall: That’s part of the operation. It’s a neat operation. I haven’t actually been in there since this
was done but I get down at that end every once in awhile. I see no reason to hinder him from doing this,
myself.
Mr. Fregoe: Just to clarify, the eight that you said you had, they’re not all of yours then?
Mr. Kapral: The vehicles that are there now? No, there are not.
Mr. Fregoe: Ok, they’re some….
Mr. Kapral: Customer vehicles from all over the country.
Mr. Fregoe: Ok, customers had them shipped in there and you’re tweaking them and shipping them back
out?
Mr. Kapral: You got it.
Mr. Fregoe: We’re dealing with more of just the sales piece here of you buy a vehicle, you play with it
awhile, make up the parts, then you unload that vehicle.
Mr. Kapral: You got it.
Mr. Fregoe: And that’s the roughly five a year then, of your own vehicles that you are looking to….
Mr. Kapral: Yes.
Mr. Fregoe: Reverse engineer or whatever you want to call it.
Mr. Kapral: Exactly.
Mr. Fregoe: Anyone in the audience to speak for or against? Silence Any comments from the board?
Mr. McAtee: Yes, I just want to point out here under 210-34 C permitted accessory uses #2 retail outlets
when directly associated with the manufacturing process. So the applicant states that they manufacture
these parts to put on these cars and one could consider this retail outlet, an offshoot of the manufacturing
process.
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Mr. Fregoe: Yes, I agree. As Mark says, I just want to make sure this is a light duty thing, that we don’t
have Billy Fuccillo out there on the curb hocking vehicles for you.
Mr. Fregoe: So we need another form?
Mr. Young: Have you filled out the first part? Have you filled out an EAF form?
Mr. Fregoe: Environmental form.
Mr. Smith: I believe on the first section that he filled out, he filled out the first question incorrectly. It
should be no.
Mr. Fregoe: Ok. We’ll look at that. Does the proposed action only involve the legislative adoption of a
plan, local law, ordinance, administrative rule, or regulation? That should be a no. I’ll cross that out and
initial. The second part you filled out for me. Ok.
Will the proposed action create a material conflict with an adopted land use plan or zoning regulations?
No.
Will the proposed action result in a change in the use or intensity of use of land? No.
Will the proposed action impair the character or quality of the existing community? No.
Will the proposed action have an impact on the environmental characteristics that caused the
establishment of a Critical Environmental Area (CEA)? No.
Will the proposed action result in an adverse change in the existing level of traffic or affect existing
infrastructure for mass transit, biking or walkway? No.
Will the proposed action cause an increase in the use of energy and it fails to incorporate reasonably
available energy conservation or renewable energy opportunities? Again, no.
Will the proposed action impact existing: a. public/private water supplies? No. b. public/private
wastewater treatment utilites? No.
Will the proposed action impair the character or quality of important historic, archaeological, architectural
or aesthetic resources? No.
Will the proposed action result in an adverse change to natural resources (e.g., wetlands, waterbodies,
groundwater, air quality, flora and fauna)? No.
Will the proposed action result in an increase in the potential for erosion, flooding or drainage problems?
No.
Will the proposed action create a hazard to environmental resources or human health? No.
We’ll scribble in a note, no impact. And I’ll sign later.
RESOLUTION #3A
Introduced by Mr. Young
13
Seconded by Mr. McAtee
That the Board classifies the application of Emery Kapral, STM Tuned, Inc, 43 Turner Drive,
Spencerport, NY 14559, as a Unlisted, Negative Declaration SEQR action.
Vote of the Board
Ayes:
Fregoe, Hall, McAtee, Young, Zale
Nays:
None
Absent:
Feasel, Burley
RESOLUTION #3B
That the appeal of Emery Kapral, STM Tuned, Inc., 43 Turner Drive, Spencerport, NY 14559 for a
conditional use permit to allow retail sales of motor vehicles associated with the existing performance
automotive business. Pursuant to Chapter 210-34.D in a Light Industrial District.
Tax Acct. #087.04-1-15.712
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Maximum of two (2) motor vehicles for sale at one time with a maximum of ten (10) per calendar
year
Motor vehicles must be parked in the existing building or parking lot
Motor vehicles for sale must be previously used in company’s manufacturing business
Only state mandated signs are permitted
Introduced by: Mr. Fregoe
Seconded by Mr. Hall
Vote of the Board
Ayes:
Fregoe, Hall, McAtee, Young, Zale
Nays:
None
Absent:
Feasel, Burley
Mr. Fregoe: #4 Appeal of Stephen L. D’Amico, 42 Sarah Circle, Spencerport, NY 14559, for an area
variance to erect an accessory building with a total square footage of 414, on property located at same,
whereas, the maximum land coverage by accessory buildings allowable in the R-1 district is 1%, which
on this lot is 303 sq. ft., pursuant to Chapter 210-28.F(3)(b) in an R-1 Residential District.
Tax Acct. #086.03-3-13
Mr. D’Amico: Good evening. Steve D’Amico, my address is 42 Sarah Circle, Spencerport, 14559. So I
think you guys should have a copy of the survey and then two drawings that show the structure in
question. That’s what I’m trying to do.
Mr. McAtee: This is like de ja vu.
Mr. Fregoe: How’s the pool coming? I see they’re mudding up your yard a little bit.
Mr. D’Amico: Yes, they are. It’s good, they did the shell and so they’re done for the year.
14
Mr. Fregoe: The pool house situated here. Does that have to stay behind the front corner of that house?
Mr. D’Amico: Yes. Yes it does. When I was last at the office, we talked that it could go….we’re talking
about the front of the house being along the driveway, so like where the garage is. So the drawing that I
put on there is pretty much the location. I’ve gone out there and I’ve kind of put some stakes in the yard.
We really don’t see it going any farther than where it is. So it’s maybe about a foot from the near corner
and probably about, maybe about 10 – 12’ from the actual front elevation of the house which is the garage
over on the right side of the drawing.
Mr. Fregoe: So the front corner can be any corner? It doesn’t have to be the nearest one?
Mr. Smith: Front plane.
Mr. Fregoe: Front plane, ok. Anybody in the audience speak for or against this applicant? Silence Ok, I
don’t have a problem with it. We hashed up the pool pretty good last time he was here.
Mr. Young: As long as the neighbors are invited, we’re fine.
Mr. D’Amico: The neighbors are invited. As well as everyone on the board. That offer from before still
stands.
Mr. Fregoe: No EAF form on this one?
Mr. Young: No.
Mr. Fregoe: Oh good. Shall we try SEQR?
RESOLUTION #4A
Introduced by Mr. Young
Seconded by Mr. McAtee
That the Board classifies the application of Stephen L. D’Amico, 42 Sarah Circle, Spencerport, NY
14559, as a Type II SEQR action.
Vote of the Board
Ayes:
Fregoe, Hall, McAtee, Young, Zale
Nays:
None
Absent:
Feasel, Burley
RESOLUTION #4B
Appeal of Stephen L. D’Amico, 42 Sarah Circle, Spencerport, NY 14559, for an area variance to erect an
accessory building with a total square footage of 414, on property located at same, whereas, the maximum
land coverage by accessory buildings allowable in the R-1 district is 1%, which on this lot is 303 sq. ft.,
pursuant to Chapter 210-28.F(3)(b) in an R-1 Residential District.
Tax Acct. #086.03-3-13

That the pool house be constructed and installed to professional standards and is to be well
maintained;
15



That the pool house not be used for commercial activity;
That any exterior lighting be limited to motion censored, no dusk to dawn or mercury vapor
lighting;
That a building permit be obtained from the Building Department prior to commencing
construction.
Introduced by: Mr. Fregoe
Seconded by Mr. Young
Vote of the Board
Ayes:
Fregoe, Hall, McAtee, Young, Zale
Nays:
None
Absent:
Feasel, Burley
Mr. Fregoe: #5 Appeal of Kenneth J. Corwin, 477 Chambers Street, Spencerport, NY 14559, for an area
variance on property located at same to erect a 30’ x 40’ (1,200 sq. ft.) accessory structure, whereas, no
accessory building(s) may exceed 600 square feet total floor area per parcel, pursuant to Chapter 210-28
F(3)(b) in an R-1 Residential District.
Tax Acct. #100.04-3-6
Mr. Fregoe: Who is here for this?
Mr. Corwin: Good evening. I’m Ken Corwin. Actually, about ready to move in to 477 Chambers Street,
Saturday hopefully. The intent is to put up mostly a building out behind the current residence for storage
of vehicles and like a work area to work on them. I have two classic vehicles that are in my possession
that I would like to bring with me. So, that’s the main focus for the building.
Mr. Fregoe: Can you explain the property lines here a little bit to us on this survey map?
Mr. Corwin: Yes, originally I bought 3 parcels of land. I bought two 5-acre lots and the house on its own
lot. The original lot on the house was approximately 200 ft. deep by 100 ft. wide. Right behind it was a
5.3 something acre parcel and what I did was added a 50 x 200 section transferred from the back parcel to
the house parcel. And that’s the section where I want to put the pole barn.
Mr. Fregoe: Ok, that second parcel is tied to the first parcel?
Mr. Smith: I can answer that, if you’d like. He did a casual review, took out the lot line and it’s all one
parcel. And the easement that’s listed there, has at the last Town Board meeting, has been rescinded so
we gave up that easement.
Mr. Fregoe: If I did my math correctly here, combined we’re looking at about 30,000 sq.ft. of property
here.
Mr. Corwin: That would be correct.
Mr. Fregoe: You’re asking for a 1200 sq. ft. building. The code allows 1% for out buildings. You’re
currently at 4% with this current layout here.
Mr. Corwin: Ok.
16
Mr. Fregoe: My threshold is typically 2% on a good day. So I’m struggling with the size of the building
a little bit given the property that you have here. And I’m open for any other comments.
Mr. Young: I’m a little confused with the map myself. As I’m looking at it, the bottom parcel is an L,
correct?
Mr. Corwin: It’s a flag lot. It has access from Chambers Street and goes back in behind the house and
then there’s another parcel right behind that 5 acres that I also own. That’s a flag lot that has access from
Washington Street. So in total, I have almost 11 acres there.
Mr. Young: But you’re putting this just on the one parcel.
Mr. Corwin: Correct.
Mr. Young: The flag lot you have that sits behind this?
Mr. Corwin: Yes, they’re all adjacent. They’re stacked one right behind the other.
Mr. Fregoe: So you’re saying you own that field in the back there?
Mr. Corwin: Yes. Two fields. I believe that the map that you have just has the first lot on it. There’s
another lot in back of it.
Mr. McAtee: So it’s simple, move that lot line again, add some more property to this.
Mr. Young: So, there’s a 5-acre parcel behind it?
Mr. Corwin: Correct.
Mr. Young: Are you looking to sell that parcel? Build on that parcel?
Mr. Corwin: No, I’m planning on keeping that parcel. Both of them.
Mr. Young: So, although…
Mr. Corwin: I just purchased it all. It’s why I purchased it.
Mr. McAtee: Is that going to continue to be farmed?
Mr. Corwin: Yes.
Mr. Fregoe: Do you have another map here, maybe I can invite you up here with your map and you can
look at my map and maybe enlighten us here. Maybe they are the same maps. So, right now you have
this piece right here that we’re talking about?
Mr. Corwin: Correct.
Mr. Fregoe: And you also own this big chunk back here?
17
Mr. Corwin: And there’s another piece that goes here, out here, over here and then with the flag lot to
Washington Street.
Mr. Fregoe: Oh, ok. We ran out of paper.
Mr. Corwin: He just drew those two parcels that changed. The lot line was originally here. And then I
moved the lot line back here to allow…
Mr. McAtee: So the building is not out of character for the neighborhood. It is out of character for the
size of the lot that we’re working with.
Mr. Young: It’s not out of character for the entire parcel that he owns.
Mr. McAtee: That’s correct. But there’s no guarantee that he’s going to own that property in the future.
Mr. Corwin: I don’t plan getting rid of it at all.
Mr. Fregoe: Thanks, I think you cleared that up.
Mr. Hall: Can you give us just a rough idea of the toys you have that you are going to put in this barn?
Mr. Corwin: I have a 1972 MGB. I have a 1971 Mustang Convertible. I also have a 1918 Harley
Davidson. And I have a 1964 BSI. I have a 2002 Firebird that I drive during the summer, which I’d like
to store in there in the winter. That’s why I want a basically 3 or 4 bay.
Mr. Hall: You’re going to hate me but I’m going to tell you the barn isn’t big enough.
Mr. Corwin: I’ve already considered that myself but I really didn’t want to go any bigger than that. So,
you’re right.
Mr. Hall: I speak from personal experience.
Mr. Corwin: I’m sure you do.
Mr. Young: Given in this particular case, the size of the entire lots that he owns and what’s around it, I
don’t have a problem with what he’s asking for. However, if he was just coming with that one parcel, and
he didn’t own anything around it, that would be an issue with me.
Mr. Fregoe: I’m just thinking of the applicant we had on Stony Point Rd at the end of Hutchings, that
wanted to put in a pool house and go well beyond their 2% limit and their parents owned the rest of that
field behind their house and to the side of their house. We kind of said no, so this one is hard for me to
swallow.
Mr. Young: Well, the 2% is not a limit, it’s what you like. What you feel comfortable with.
Mr. Fregoe: The 2% is my limit. One percent is the code. I’m willing to double it to two.
Mr. Young: I don’t think it’s out of character.
Mr. McAtee: It’s not out of character for the neighborhood.
18
Mr. Hall: It’s not out of character for that neighborhood.
Mr. McAtee: It’s just it is big for that lot.
Mr. Hall: And actually, I don’t know all of the rules but if that’s considered agricultural land back there, I
don’t think our 1% applies. If a farmer wants to put a barn up…
Mr. McAtee: That’s a stretch.
Mr. Smith: That’s different. He’s not a farmer. He doesn’t have an Ag Exempt so that wouldn’t apply.
And again, if they build houses back there some day, they’ll have to be fairly big lots. So it’s not like they
will have a track with a lot of houses backing up to it. They’ll have to be fairly large lots.
Mr. Hall: I personally don’t have a problem with the size of it. Consider what… we’ve given out some
pretty decent size buildings on this board.
Mr. Fregoe: Just to clarify also for everybody tonight. We are typically a seven member board, which
means four yes votes have to pass it. A 3-2 doesn’t cut it. So if it’s in jeopardy we can offer you the
opportunity to come back next month and hopefully we’ll have seven members. Or we can take a shot at
this tonight. I know what I’m voting so….
Mr. Corwin: Well, the purpose of buying the property was not to sell it off. I didn’t pay a real cheap price
for the property. My intent is to stay there. I am a hunter so I am enjoying being able to go out my back
door and go out with my bow and sit in the trees and enjoy it. I actually am pursuing buying another 12
acres behind that, so it’s not like I’m asking to put up a big building and then going to sell off the back.
Mr. Fregoe: I want you to have the building.
Mr. Corwin: I understand.
Mr. Fregoe: In this current configuration, I can’t vote for it. We had an application last month that
fortunately withdrew that was at 7%. They wanted to sub-divide some property and leave a large building
on the last remaining acre there. It was 7% of the property, it just doesn’t fit. If you had half of that field
in the back tied to this house property, I’d have no problem with it. Or whatever chunk you need to get
the 2%, I’d have no problem with it. I’d love to see you have the building there, but I can’t do it with that
size of the lot that you have there now.
Mr. McAtee: Based on what you are telling us, is that the lot lines are kind of arbitrary because you want
to own all the property indefinitely anyway. So what would it take to redraw the property lines, so to
speak, to give you some more land to go with that house?
Mr. Corwin: More money, I guess. I did this specially to allow myself enough room to put a building on
there. I went through that exercise once. So, I’m a little hesitant to do it again right away.
Mr. McAtee: Well, apparently you didn’t quite achieve that goal. Yet, right?
Mr. Corwin: Well, no, I didn’t quite achieve the goal of the 1% but to achieve the goal of 1% I need
120,000 sq. ft., right? Which is how many acres?
Mr. Hall: It’s five acres.
19
Mr. Smith: And when he came in and drew his line, we didn’t really question that because he hadn’t
come to you anyway because the maximum size is 600 sq. ft. so he had to come anyway. That’s what
triggered it, so we weren’t really looking at how big it needed to be for 1% since he had to come to you
anyway because it was over 600 sq. ft.
Mr. Young: Our attorney, can we permit this as long as he remains the owner of the property located
behind there?
Ms. Field: --inaudible—
Mr. Young: Then he would have to take that barn down.
Ms. Field: You may pose reasonable conditions. ---inaudible--Mr. Fregoe: And if you were to pass away then who would impose those conditions? As far as selling,
dividing the property, whatever.
Mr. Young: I don’t want to make him go out and spend another couple thousand dollars to re-draw the
property line to include another acre of property. This is one of those “what ifs” down the line. I think
we are getting hung up on the property line.
Mr. Fregoe: I’m hung up on the code. And I’m willing to bend. I’m willing to go 100% more but in the
15 years that I’ve sat here, I just can’t go beyond it.
Mr. Young: Ms. Zale?
Ms. Zale: I think it’s too big for that lot. If we’re only looking at the lot size then it’s too big.
Mr. Young: I think what you are hearing from Mr. Fregoe initially is you have to get four votes. There
are two members missing. You can choose to table this and come back within the next 60 days and when
everybody is here, it might give you a chance to either re-convince some people that aren’t convinced. Or
maybe change something, now that you know what some people are looking for.
Mr. Smith: The next meeting we still won’t have a full board. It will probably be at least one short.
Mr. Young: But he might be able to speak with some people in the Building Department and get some
ideas about what to do.
Mr. Fregoe: I’ll tell you right now, if that log goes to 60,000 sq. ft., I’m okay with it. But 30, I just can’t.
I can’t vote yes, it’s just not consistent with what I’ve done here in the past.
Mr. Young: That would be my suggestion.
Mr. Corwin: Ok.
Mr. Young: You want us to table this then for you?
Mr. Corwin: Yes.
Mr. Hall: We want to work with you but it does get alittle….
20
Mr. Corwin: I understand.
Mr. Young: We worry about the next person.
Mr. Corwin: Right. I understand.
RESOLUTION #5
Introduced by Mr. Fregoe
Seconded by Mr. Young
That the appeal of Kenneth J. Corwin, 477 Chambers Street, Spencerport, NY 14559, for an area
variance on property located at same to erect a 30’ x 40’ (1,200 sq. ft.) accessory structure, whereas, no
accessory building(s) may exceed 600 square feet total floor area per parcel, pursuant to Chapter 210-28
F(3)(b) in an R-1 Residential District was Tabled for a period of up to 60 days.
Vote of the Board
Ayes:
Fregoe, Hall, McAtee, Young, Zale
Nays:
None
Absent:
Feasel, Burley
Mr. Fregoe: How do I want to approach this?
Mr. Young: You can call it first.
Mr. Fregoe: I can read it first then disappear. Ok.
The appeal of Cheryl LaTray, 3445 Winton Place, Suite 204, Rochester, NY 14623, for a conditional use
permit to allow a Home Care Services facility, specifically for 4 non-related Senior Citizens to live
together at 45 Denishire Drive. Pursuant to proposed Chapter 210-28 D (12), in an R-1 Residential
District.
Tax Acct #117.03-4-51
Mr. Fregoe: I have to take care of a clerical thing here first. I’ll go to my Zoning Board attorney here.
Would you recommend that I recuse myself from this application?
Ms. Field: Given your stated intent to recuse yourself at the Town Board Meeting, it would be my
recommendation although the decision to recuse yourself is one that you hold.
Mr. Fregoe: I’ll do it in the best interest of the town.
Mr. Young: Mr. Fregoe is recusing himself because he’s a neighbor or close to an adjacent property
owner.
Mr. Fregoe: I’ll state that when I speak.
Mr. Hall is acting chairman.
Mr. Young: What’s your name and address?
21
Ms. LaTray: My name is Cheryl LaTray. I currently live at 8 Broken Hill, Pittsford, NY.
Mr. Hall: And you are requesting what?
Ms. LaTray: I have a purchase offer in at 45 Denishire Drive. And I’m here to tell you a little bit more
about what the intended use of this. We’re getting a conditional use. I’m voluntarily putting some
additional conditions on there to make sure that it is compliant with the neighborhood.
Mr. Hall: Go ahead, tell us why you want to do this and what you are going to do if we allow it.
Ms. LaTray: Can I do a clarification where you could be reading, what had been adopted, and that this an
allowable use since it was new? What we are doing is actually something that has been approved by the
town.
Mr. Smith: She is correct. The Town at the last Board meeting adopted into Town Law this use as a
Home Care Services Facility as an allowable use in a Residential R-1 district as a conditional use. “The
Town Board also stated that the reason for the rationale for supporting the Town Boards enactment of this
local law was: a) That the need for the establishment of Home Care Services Facilities within the Town
of Ogden is a recognized need as the elderly population is growing and the need of such services is
evident. b) As a conditional use the Zoning Board of Appeals of the Town of Ogden can and will impose
such conditions or limitations upon such Home Care Services Facilities so as to protect the health, safety,
and welfare of the citizens of the Town of Ogden while at the same time allowing for such Home Care
Services Facilities to be established within the Town of Ogden c) That Home Care Services Facilities
pursuant to the regulations of the NYS Dept. of Health are limited to four or fewer individuals per facility
thus limiting the impact of such facilities upon adjoining properties d) That the Zoning Board of Appeals
can as a condition of any approval of Home Care Services Facilities regulate the minimum ages of
occupants in such Home Care Services Facilities to 50 years or older at the discretion of the Zoning Board
of Appeals and may also impose such other conditions as it deems reasonable or prudent given the nature
of any such application which may come before it.” And it was voted unanimously “for”.
Mr. Hall: Now we know what the Code is and the law.
22
Ms. LaTray: So I get the privilege of telling you a little bit more about what we would like to do at that
property. We would like to have four seniors and our target group is 75 years or around that, all living in
this four bedroom ranch. And it is to provide minimal oversight so they can maintain their independence.
We’re finding that there absolutely is a need. One in five households have to address this on a regular
basis that there is a senior that is needing additional assistance and care. So this came out of fulfilling a
need within the community. In further detail, many people endorse the idea of caring for seniors and
doing it in a compassionate and cost effective manner. And endorse the idea as an example to our
children, caring for our seniors, but many don’t want it in their neighborhood. So part of what I’m here
today to talk about is address some of those concerns and why we’ve chosen Denishire. It is a fantastic
community area and it is one that we believe would highlight what is best about the community and that
would support our senior community and why this is a great place to do it. A couple of the concerns that I
would like to address is that…I would like to tell you what this is not. This is not a group home, this is
not an assisted living facility, this is not a memory care facility. Which means this is not for seniors who
are disoriented, not sure where they are, that’s not what this is. That’s a whole different set of licenses,
that’s a whole different set of care, that’s not what this is. This is for a senior who doesn’t want to be
shipped off to a nursing home, still wants and desires the community feel, to be in a home. And by
having other residents they are also with their peer group, one of the things that this group faces is
isolation and this gives them the ability to also be with their peers. Some of the concerns are property
values, actually I’m a 20 year licensed real estate agent regularly doing appraisals of properties. And we
are paying at and now with the declining market potentially above market price which means the comps
in the area are not affected. This is not a non-profit organization, we are fully taxed as a private
individual. So we are fully paying the taxes. Some of the other concerns that we have in addition to
value is traffic, that there would be an increased amount of traffic in the area. There is 24 hour
supervision care in the home there are four seniors that just need oversight so there is somebody there for
24 hours. There are peak hours like between 9:00-5:00 extra transportation, extra meal planning that sort
of thing, they provide extra staff for that. If there is odd outsourcing for care for physical therapy that sort
of thing. So, I want to talk about the traffic. This particular home has a three car garage and has six car
parking that’s nine space’s for parking. We’re not even coming close to using that sort of thing for
parking in fact a typical household has two cars for adults and if you have two teenagers that’s four. So as
far as the traffic use expected at this property this is half, maybe 2/3 of what a typical home actually has.
So the traffic in and out is not an increase of what we normally have. Values do not go down because of
this, traffic does not go up because of this, this is meeting a need by having the seniors in an environment
with their peers, cared for in a community residence. I am outsourcing the care. There would be tenants
renting the home and they would be outsourcing the care similar to if somebody was living in their own
home and said I want somebody to come in and take care of myself. You are allowed to outsource that. I
have invited the person I have partnered with who is going to be providing that care to talk about the staff,
the licensing, and the care given, the screening that is given to the people that are in there. We are
voluntarily saying 55 instead of 50 and we are saying that these seniors do have some care that they need
so I’ve invited Al Gauvin the owner of Companion Care of Rochester who we’ve partnered with for this
to talk more about some of those concerns.
23
Mr. Gauvin: As Cheryl said, I’m Al Gauvin, I own and operate a licensed by the NYS Dept. of Health
agency. We can provide up to including skilled nursing. We have nine registered nurses on staff and we
have over 350 employees that work for the company. We’ve been in business since 1997. One of the
critical issues as we all age is that…Currently my home care is a one-on-one. We are running out of
caregivers. It used to be that they would stay with family, Mom would move in with typically the
daughter or the daughter-in-law and would stay there for anywhere from five to twenty years depending
on life expectancies. Today that is changing as we have a much more mobile society. As most of you
know people want to stay in their home. They do not want to go into an institution. I use the phrase my
Dad uses when we tried to get him into an assisted living, he said if I wanted to live in a barracks I would
have stayed in the Army as a career and he didn’t. Mostly that’s why we’re doing this. There is a very
selfish reason on my part because we can now care for four people with one caregiver. Cheryl mentioned
that at the peak times, 7:00-11:00 and 5:00 to 9:00 we will have two caregivers there supporting the four
individuals. These individuals will be all private pay. These are not welfare recipients. These are
individuals who rather than paying an assisted living which is slightly less and living with 140 of their
best friends, they will be living in a community, that’s what our hope is, a community, and that’s why
Devonshire, and that’s why we picked Devonshire, because it is a very nice community. It is a
community that everybody would like to live in and these seniors that will be living there can afford to
live in a nice place.
Mr. Hall: Any questions from the board for either one of these people right now?
Mr. Young: Right now, I’m going to wait.
Mr. Gauvin: We’ll be happy to answer any questions.
Mr. Hall: I’m just letting the board get the first shot here.
Mr. Young: Let them finish their presentation and then we’ll open it up.
Ms. LaTray: A couple of other quick things for clarification. The seniors do not have cars, so we do not
have that traffic. The other need that this is filling is when a senior needs one-on-one care, that cost is
over $13,000 a month. So what we are doing is providing a very cost effective way to still have that 24hour oversight. I don’t think when somebody goes from middle age to old age, they no longer desire a
quiet community to enjoy. Saying that this is a quiet community and that’s not a good fit, I picture in my
senior years also desiring a quiet community that I would want to stay in as well. And I really believe that
this is an awesome community that honors the seniors, shows a compassionate way of affordable caring
for seniors and being that example for other communities as well.
Mr. McAtee: Do your residents go out of the building? Do they walk around the neighborhood or are
they supervised if they leave the premise?
Ms. LaTray: Mr. Gauvin, would you like to help with this. Because his staff is responsible for the
oversight.
Mr. Gauvin: Our staff is responsible for that individual 24/7. There’s two parts to that question.
Will the residents walk outside and enjoy the lawn? Yes. Will they be wandering around the
neighborhood? No. But to say that somebody’s not going to enjoy a spring day, especially in this part of
the country, outside would be to deny them a basic right for living.
Mr. McAtee: So if they were to walk down the street, they would have supervision?
24
Mr. Gauvin: They would have an aide.
Ms. LaTray: One of the reasons that this particular house was chosen was it’s 1.4 acres and has a
beautiful back deck and a way to go out and enjoy privately in the back yard.
Mr. Young: Do they have to have an aide according to New York State or your rules? Or are you just
saying that they will have an aide with them?
Mr. Gauvin: It’s my rules not New York State.
Ms. Zale: So, if the aide is walking one of the residents, the other three are in the house, unattended?
Mr. Gauvin: There are two aides on 24 hours, ok. But the only time that the resident would be allowed to
walk the neighborhood is when there’s two aides there, one to be in the house with the other three and the
one aide walking with the person.
Ms. Zale: I just state that I can really appreciate what you are doing because I think most of us are
looking into this for parents or grandparents at this point. I’ve worked in nursing homes for the past 4 or
5 years; assisted living, independent living, and skilled nursing. And to say that someone would be living
with 140 friends is not true. There are multiple facilities out there, not institutions, that I would highly
recommend, that would give residents or members the same exact thing. I think, this is my personal
opinion, I live in a residence very similar to Denishire, where two doors down, I have someone renting. I
don’t know that family. It’s been turned over three or four times. I don’t know who they are. On the
other side I have a family that actually has care that comes in and takes care of their daughter. I don’t
know who those aides are but I know that they are there. I would much rather see a family member
taking care of a family member like that, rather than four individuals in one house where you’re going to
get nursing aides, other family members, who knows who’s coming. I think that I need to be protective of
neighborhoods like this but on the flip side I do really appreciate it, because again, I have been looking
into something like this as well for my mother. I’m torn. But to say that these are institutions, I definitely
disagree with you.
Mr. Gauvin: Oh, there’s some lovely places but all this is, is we are providing another option. That’s all
we are doing. And it’s not like we are inventing the wheel. In 35 other states, they’re already doing this.
There’s projects in New York City that are already started.
Ms. Zale: I know this is nothing new. There’s a huge nursing home in Henrietta that are doing it right
now, building green homes for smaller communities. It’s out there and it’s run by people that are really
well trained to do this, not in residential neighborhoods like this.
Ms. LaTray: One of the things, I guess too, you’re talking about having families care for the seniors
versus having a trained staff that is there to be awake 24 hours. There’s always the care, their time is
dedicated, that sort of thing. To say that a family member is better than a trained staff might not be
completely the way. It could be a preference and absolutely we want family to be involved. I completely
agree with that but I do think that there are really compassionate caregivers. There is trained staff to
understand when things are going wrong.
Ms. Zale: I agree. I do prefer to see a family member home with that care.
Ms. LaTray: And that’s actually currently in that neighborhood right now as well.
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Ms. Zale: That’s what I’m saying. I like that rather than just four random individuals in one house, no
family to kind of oversee and then caregivers coming in. You’re renting out the space. In a residential
neighborhood I think it should be families taking care of families. Not renting out space for individuals
with needs. You say it’s not assisted but then you do have caregivers coming in.
Ms. LaTray: The other thing we have is that families aren’t always local. We have families that are
outside of the area and they come back and they want mom to be in a place that is really well-cared for,
well-run, well-staffed because they can’t be here. And there is a large number of population that leave
and still have families and the seniors don’t want to leave their community. They want to be part of
something they’ve been all along even though the children have left so we don’t always have that family
pod to rest on.
Ms. Zale: I completely agree. But I feel like they can also get that at facilities like The Jewish Home, The
Friendly Homes, St. Ann’s, St. John’s, all those really good nursing homes in our back yard in Rochester.
Mr. Young: Who is going to take care of the property?
Ms. LaTray: I am the Property Manager, I will take care of it. Right out of the gate, we are putting about
$40,000 - $50,000 worth into the property. The property will be ADA compliant. That does not mean the
residents are in wheelchairs. It means that they can easily navigate through the home. On that street, the
house needs some freshening up so we are going to put some exterior on that. Even just right now, in the
neighborhood, it’s the only one that’s dark with no lights at Christmas. I hope this time next year, it’s lit
up and becomes that much more of a part of the community. The property is going to be very well cared
for. So this is a place that you want your mom, your family to be at.
Mr. Hall: I’d like to know a little bit about the background of these people, who checks them out, and are
they just checked out as to how much money they’ve got?
Ms. LaTray: Those are great questions. The screening of that is very thorough and intense, I’ll let Al talk
about the screening process.
Mr. Gauvin: Prior to taking a resident on we have a nurse and one of our managers goes out and does an
in home assessment. Number one to see what their physical needs are and what their mental capabilities
are, also what their financial capabilities are. Through that screening, there’s about 70 odd questions that
are asked. You get a great profile of who the person is, where they are, what their background is and what
they bring to the party.
Mr. Hall: I didn’t hear you say anything about their real background. When you take them on as a client
do you know their real background? Have they had some kind of run in with the law, have they been in
some other institution? I’m just throwing this out here. I just buried my brother two months ago. We put
him in a senior, adult, unit. We had caretakers come in and help him. He wanted his independence. He
didn’t want somebody else around to tell him what to do. He’d get very upset with me. I’m very much
aware of this. I know his background, I grew up with him. The thing that worries me is how do we know
that lurking in the back of their mind isn’t some problem? That could be with me too but I think that
when we bring four people into a unit like this into Denishire we have to be very careful as we approach
this. I think we need to know more about how these people are vetted.
Mr. Gauvin: I would only say that our screening process is much more thorough than if I were to walk in
and cash down $200,000 to buy the house.
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Mr. Young: More thorough than your new neighbor moves in next to you, there’s no screening process
whatsoever.
Mr. Gauvin: That’s what I’m saying. I understand your concern but you are asking me to guarantee
something I can’t guarantee.
Mr. Hall: If there is a problem lurking in the darkness somewhere I’d like to know about it. I’d like to
know that we’re not putting somebody who’s had a problem years ago that might come into that
community. I’m very concerned about children myself.
Mr. Gauvin: Legally she can’t ask when she’s renting a place if they have a criminal background or not.
She can ask if they are on the sexual predator list. She can to rent the property.
Ms. LaTray: I’m in real estate sales. The whole qualification for your neighbors, this one gets more
screening than you would ever be able to just selling it. If there was something that would be comforting
as far as having a background check, criminal, and that was part of the conditional, something like that I
can’t ask.
Mr. Young: Is it true that you are going to have two aids during the busy time, watching four people,
there will always be at least one person there all the time? That will be there to watch four people? So no
one is going to be just wandering around, let loose?
Ms. LaTray: Correct. No aid lives there and they are awake during the evening hours so great oversight
and care for them.
Mr. McAtee: Is there security on the doors for incoming and outgoing?
Ms. LaTray: Just normal security that would be on any normal household. If you are talking about extra
security for memory and those sorts of stuff that’s a whole different ballgame, so traditional yes.
Ms. Zale: So I know you had mentioned a home assessment before you say yes these members coming
in. You said health, mental, financial screening. You said it’s not a memory care so who would say it’s
about time that this person maybe needs to move on to a memory care facility or assisted living?
Mr. Gauvin: One of our nurses. The registered nurse would have an ongoing assessment.
Ms. Zale: Is that a monthly thing, a yearly thing?
Mr. Gauvin: Right now it’s planned on monthly.
Ms. Zale: So, you are going to have RN’s, two RN’s or is it a C.N.A. and an RN?
Mr. Gauvin: No, we are going to have HHA’s or PCA’s, home health aids or personal care aids but those
are supervised by RN’s. RN’s will make a visit once per month at this location.
Ms. Zale: Do you know how much training the HHA and a PCA go through? Do you offer that at your
facility? Is it a six week program that they go through?
Mr. Gauvin: It’s a two week program for HHA’s, it’s annual in-services of 12 hours a year and it’s
supervision quarterly by a registered nurse.
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Mr. Young: Is it regulated by the state?
Mr. Gauvin: It is regulated by the Dept. of Health. It’s all on my licensure.
Ms. Zale: At the end of the day do they report back to an RN? How do they say that there is a concern or
there is something that an RN would have to notice?
Mr. Gauvin: Currently, and in this facility as well, we do a communication log. Number one so that one
aid can communicate with the other when it’s not 24/7. And secondly that the nurse can go in on a
monthly basis and review the log to see what concerns are but obviously if an aid has a concern she can
pick up the phone and call and talk to either our clinical director or an administrator.
Ms. Zale: So are they “med” certified to give out meds?
Mr. Gauvin: They are not.
Ms. Zale: So, the four residents if they do have medications they have to take them themselves?
Mr. Guavin: They can prompt. Kristin, it’s time to take your noon meds. Here they are, they would have
to take them.
Mr. Young: No one prompts me, I wish they would.
Ms. Zale: Off the top of your head, how many med errors has your company had in the past month?
Mr. Gauvin: We don’t have med errors because we don’t give out meds.
Ms. Zale: But, do the RN’s?
Mr. Gauvin: The RN’s don’t give out meds. Under my license, which is home care, we can’t give out
meds. We do assessments, the RN’s can do assessments, they do reviews, they can do wound care, but
they can’t pass out meds.
Mr. Young: This is not a nursing home, correct?
Mr. Gauvin: This is not a nursing home.
Mr. Young: This is not something that requires that level of care, correct?
Mr. Gauvin: Correct.
Mr. Hall: It’s a rental property with four people renting space?
Mr. Gauvin: And a home care agency providing home care assistance for those four residents.
Mr. Young: What would stop four elderly people from buying this home and splitting the cost and having
people come in and helping them?
Mr. Gauvin: Nothing. You could have three people or two people or your mom have my agency walk in
and take care of her 24/7.
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Mr. Young: So the only difference is you are actually going to run it? You are going to oversee this?
Mr. Gauvin: I oversee the homecare as well. The only thing that changes from a home care perspective is
that there are four individuals versus one or two. We do couples but that’s normally what we do is one or
two.
Mr. Young: So this isn’t a state run jail facility or a prison or something like that?
Mr. Gauvin: Not yet!
Ms. Zale: Now the house has three bedrooms?
Ms. LaTray: Correct, it’s just under 2700 square feet and there is another 10’ x 12’room that currently has
a laundry facility that would be converted to a bedroom with a bathroom inside it as well. There will be
three bathrooms. I also wanted to address the concerns you mentioned, children. As a mother of seven, I
get it. We are talking about our grandmothers our mothers. This is not, there is nothing to be scared of in
seeing our parents or grandparents age, that sort of thing. The safety of children, they are not in jeopardy
because we have a senior who has somebody helping them in their home maintain their independence.
My grandmother just passed. She was 98, lived on her own. Independence was something she earnestly
fought for. One of the hardest things to say to somebody is you need 24 hour care, we need to have
somebody there. They don’t want to give up their independence. This is a compassionate way to say you
can stay in a home environment, you can stay in a community, you can do that affordably and you can do
that with your peers. It’s a very compassionate way of taking care. The home is going to be very well
cared for that’s why a quiet neighborhood was chosen. The home will remain quiet as well.
Mr. Young: So it’s not warehousing the elderly.
Ms. LaTray: No.
Mr. Young: My father left my grandmother in a place where you could say it was warehousing the elderly.
Eleven people in one house, it was terrible. This would have been great for her.
Ms. LaTray: And there is very much a need within the community to have this.
Mr. Young: Tom, can we open it up to the floor?
Mr. Hall: Yes, we can. Any questions from the audience?
Mr. Young: I would just ask if you guys are going to state your position it’s not overstated. Don’t repeat
things a lot. Thank you.
Mr. Fregoe: Duane Fregoe, 46 Denishire Drive. It’s been awhile since I’ve been at this microphone. I
live directly across from the property in question here. A couple things real quick. I fully understand this
Board conducts their business in front of the public and with that I have not expressed my opinions on
this matter nor discussed this matter with any member of this Board prior to sitting in that chair tonight
and if that’s not the case I’d like the Board to speak up now. A couple questions for the Board here or
maybe for the attorney real quick. The application that was submitted by the applicant, could you tell me
the date that it was submitted?
Ms. Field: It looks like 9/9/2014.
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Mr. Fregoe: Yeah, that was signatures I think by the homeowner but I do see a fax date at the top of
9/18/14. So I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt.
Mr. Smith: And we are only going by these dates because I don’t recall the exact date.
Mr. Fregoe: Okay, some time in September because she was in line to be on the October hearing right?
Mr. Smith: Yes, October 2nd.
Mr. Fregoe: Okay so safe to say this was submitted and accepted by the Town sometime in September.
Mr. Smith: Correct.
Mr. Fregoe: Section 210-104 A states that the Board of Appeals shall here any appeal brought to them
within 60 days of receiving the completed application. Why the delay?
Mr. Smith: Because the way I interpreted the law in a residential district it allowed nursing homes and it
allowed hospitals but it also says that if it’s not expressly permitted it’s prohibited. So that set into effect
that this is not expressly permitted so it had to go to the Town Board and we actually had to change the
law in order to make this a conditional use. So, basically we couldn’t act on it then. So then she resubmitted it even though we didn’t ask her to fill out another form, she re-submitted it and we put her on
for this date. Originally we thought they might actually make, I’ve got a line crossed out for 11/6, she
was going to make that meeting but we couldn’t get it all done at the Town Board by that date. So
officially I would say she re-submitted it so we could get it on for the 12/4 meeting. I don’t have the date
that she officially re-submitted it.
Mr. Fregoe: So the Town Board had to react rather hastily then to get this application before this Board so
they could hear it properly then is what you are saying.
Mr. Smith: No, the Town Board acted at their speed. We kept delaying her coming to this Board because
we did not want them to come to this Board until the Town Board made its decision. And I should state
also that when the Town Board made its decision, even though their decision was a blanket thing, that
they wanted to allow it in the Town, it doesn’t mean that even though a hospital or nursing home is
allowed in an R-1 it doesn’t mean that they can build next door to any particular person or neighborhood.
But they made it a conditional use permit. When they did that , they did it with the thought of these
individuals and this lot in mind, and they all supported that. Normally speaking, let’s say they did it and
they didn’t even apply yet and someone comes in six months from now, we couldn’t say that the Town
Board looked at this particular application and approved it, but basically they did because they made the
law specifically for these individuals because there is no one else asking for this. This is the reason that
they changed the law.
Mr. Fregoe: I guess the legal question based on 210-104 A should she have re-submitted her application
to be within the 60 days?
Ms. Field: What I just heard is that she did.
Mr. Fregoe: No, she did not. We’ve got the original application right here.
Ms. LaTray: I have a receipt for a re-submission.
Mr. Gauvin: That’s dated 11/18.
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Mr. Fregoe: Okay, thank you. Next question…application that she submitted is asking to allow four nonrelated senior citizens to live in this home together, that’s all it asks for. Why is the notice written for
something else? Why did you write the notice for more than what she asked for on her application?
Mr. Smith: The applicant can write in whatever they think and then we have to take it legally by
whatever the code says and we put in there what’s legal, what we need to post legally.
Mr. Fregoe: But she only asked for four non-related senior citizens to live in this home, no mention of in
home health care or anything like that, why would that be in the application, she didn’t ask for it? Why
would that be in the notice to the public?
Mr. Smith: She did. She may not have put it on this paper but if we go through history, there is probably
none of them that ever match up to what we put in the paper. There’s probably not one that I can think of,
I mean, it’s the applicant putting this out. They are not writing their own legal, we do that.
Mr. Fregoe: Okay, fair enough. All hearings must be published in the official newspaper, the Suburban
News. Is it legal to publish a legal notice and reference a Code item that does not exist at the time of
publishing?
Mr. Smith: That I don’t…
Ms. Field: The legal notice did indicate that this was proposed legislation, that they were bringing this to
proposed legislation.
Mr. Fregoe: Is that what was in the newspaper?
Ms. Field: The word “proposed” was in the notice. The word “proposed” was inserted prior to Chapter
210-28.
Mr. Smith: Because to this date too it’s not in the Code Book because it was just acted upon the last time
at the Board meeting, but we already knew what the number was going to be.
Mr. Fregoe: If it’s on the web it must be real right? Is it on the web yet?
Mr. Smith: It may not be. But if anybody would have called to ask we definitely would have given them
the Code because we had it all because it was already printed.
Mr. Young: For everybody in the audience who doesn’t know this is Noelle Burley who is a member of
our Board sitting up here tonight. Just so you know people up here don’t just walk up and sit down.
Mr. Fregoe: Now I have a number of questions probably for the applicants. Who will hold the mortgage
on this property?
Ms. LaTray: Commonwealth is the name of the LLC that will hold the mortgage. I am taking out the
mortgage in the LLC name.
Mr. Fregoe: So this is a for-profit LLC then?
Ms. LaTray: This is not a non-profit.
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Mr. Fregoe: Let me go through them all. I may have to leave my notes here for you. Who will need to
acquire the license from the NYS Health Dept. when you become the owner of this property and rent it
out? Code states the facility must be licensed by the NYS Health Dept., who will hold that license? Is
the same license good for one, two, three, or four people in one residence? Since you are holding the
license are you the only one that can provide the home health care for this residence because I heard at the
Town Board meeting on November 12th that the occupants can bring their own home health care provider
to this place? And maybe you can explain what happens if we have competing home health care
providers? We have two people that want somebody else and two people that want you, so maybe you
can explain that? The license is attached to your business I assume so that you can conduct that said
business, I guess the question is your license also attached to the physical residence or is just basically for
your services to provide? I guess that’s what I’ve got right now.
Ms. LaTray: So in answering those questions if I leave any out please…So, yes this is a for-profit LLC.,
again…inaudible. One of the things too by operating not as a non-profit we are paying full taxes we are
not asking for any special graces that way at all. So what I’ve done is I don’t require that license. I am a
landlord and outsource that. I have partnered with somebody who is actually one of the top businesses in
Rochester, I know he wouldn’t say it so I will, partnered and using his license. Many of the licensing
questions he’ll answer in a minute. So I’m not required to have one (a license), the property is not
required to have one, those that come into the property to care for are required to have one. Because of
partnering with him it is exclusive. People that are using his facility, I believe he has quite a few people
that are in need of this sort of thing so it’s using his facility and the need that’s there so it would not be
competing facilities. The people coming in are already part of companion care that need extra care.
Mr. Gauvin: It’s my license. The license allows me to provide home care in a person’s home or in
another facility. For example, Kristen talked about St. Johns and St. Annes and we will provide
companion service which is non-medical service to some individuals who just are lonely, who want extra
help. So we’ll go into facilities just like that and provide service there. The license stays with the
organization. The organization will be marketing the individuals that will be renting property from
Commonwealth so we will do the marketing so in terms of exclusive I’m pretty confident that we’re not
going to market for competitors. I can’t be assured of that but I’m pretty confident that we’re going to do
that. The other thing that has not been brought up, the reality is the way we have this priced the
individuals who will be staying at this home are not looking for their next meal. This is not going to be
inexpensive. It is going to be priced below what skilled nursing is in terms of a nursing home and
probably a little above what memory care is going for on an assisted living. It is not targeted towards
memory care. It is targeted towards people who have more than what we term three ADL’s which is
Assistance with Daily Living, eating, washing, combing your hair, dressing, ambulation, those kinds of
things. That’s the target audience.
Mr. Fregoe: I have one more question for you if you please. Did you say it was 55 or older?
Mr. Gauvin: We can certainly do that.
Mr. Fregoe: What is the average age?
Mr. Gauvin: The average age is probably going to be about 75 because the good news is most of us are in
fairly decent shape until we are in our 70’s. It’s when we’re in our 70’s that we begin to need more help.
That’s basically…Did I miss one more? I’m sorry Duane.
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Mr. Fregoe: I think you got them. I appreciate that, thanks. I guess the concern I have and it’s not a
Denishire Drive concern, and it may be a little bit. It’s more of a town wide concern because I’ve sat on
this Board for 15 years and seen a lot of things happen in this town. I guess the biggest concern I have is
that this thing was listed at $220,000 or $230,000 and sat there a while and she’s going to put another
$40,000-$50,000 in, that’s a good chunk of change. My concern is if we lower the bar now, and what I
mean by lowering the bar is there is many different neighborhoods in the Town of Ogden. We’ve got
some that live on part of county highways, thoroughfares, state highways, close to some semi-commercial
type operations, some not, and then you have your cul-de-sacs, your closed loop subdivisions because you
go in one driveway and if you go out the other you are still on the same street that you started on. You are
not going to get from point A to point B and drive through Denishire Drive to get there or drive through
Maida Drive or Longbow Circle, they are not on the beaten path. I like what they are doing, I struggle
because we have two separate entities here. We are talking about a licensed facility, well this is a rental
property, it’s looking to be a rental property. She’s looking to rent it out to four distinct individuals, nonrelated individuals. The home health care is a side order, okay, first and foremost it’s a rental property.
She’s going to rent out the property, he provides the home health care. If it was just a rental property with
four different people or a rental property with two different families we would have a problem with that
on this Board.
Ms. Burley: But it would never come to this Board if it were just a rental property.
Mr. Fregoe: I’m going to get to that in a minute here. This being the first application of this kind for this
Code that was approved on November 25th we’re basically looking to legalize multi-family residential
properties in an R-1 district with some stipulations. If you approve this for Denishire Drive you might as
well forget about it as a Board and next time something else comes before us because you have pretty
much covered all the neighborhoods in this town. Whether it’s Maida Drive or Longbow or Bernie Lane
they are all in that same quiet neighborhood, not very busy streets. I think this has a better fit on some
county highways, some thoroughfares, some state highways. When I talk about lowering the bar,
Suburban News a while back, probably a few years ago now wanted to buy a piece of property over on
Colby Street, there was a subdivision there, it was a Light Industrial area, light commercial area, the
gentleman that runs the Suburban News stood before us and he had a very sub-standard piece there was
two sizes that would have made the Code and he had a substandard piece. Being the first piece of this
subdivision he wanted all these variances and they were substantial, and we rejected it. And the reason
we rejected it is because if you let it go substandard now how do you control the other two properties that
are there. They will subdivide those and you have no muscle to enforce any more Codes if you give it
away early so had he been the last parcel it might have been a different story. Conditional Uses, if you
look at the Code under conditional uses there is a number of permitted uses in 210-28 D that would not fit
or be out of character on Denishire Drive or any of the streets I mentioned tonight, they talk about funeral
homes, hospitals, clinics, nursing homes, those don’t fit in those neighborhoods. It’s just the way it is, but
they are listed as permitted uses in an R-1 district. Again, we have different R-1 districts, we’ve got the
more commercialized looking R-1’s and we have the real private R-1’s.
Ms. LaTray: I guess I would just like to address the idea that caring for our parents is lowering the bar
and that putting people on busy highways because of their age, meaning that they don’t have the right to
have a quiet neighborhood, I don’t think that that’s necessarily the direction that you guys want to go. I
actually look at this application instead of lowering the bar, you guys are raising the bar. You are setting
an example in saying that this is how we compassionately care for our families. I think you are raising
the bar by allowing this.
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Mr. Fregoe: Let’s talk about that bar. I go the other direction only because I’m not, again I have no
problem with the health care system you are trying to provide, I think it’s a wonderful idea and I think
there are some cost savings to be had, it just has to be in the right neighborhoods. To put it in a very quiet
neighborhood is a problem and I think what’s going to happen…my fear and I could be wrong or right
whatever, my fear is if this gets allowed now, being the first application before this Board on this new
Code, I see a number of real estate investors who into rental properties wanting to buy property in Ogden,
anywhere they can get it be it ranch style or whatever, or even buy a vacant lot. For what she’s paying for
this house I don’t know why you don’t just buy a vacant lot and put a four bedroom ranch on it already fit
out for ADA.
Mr. Young: I have a question. If someone wants to buy a house and make it into a rental property, do
they need to come before the Board?
Mr. Fregoe: Single family rental, I guess not.
Mr. Young: Okay, so now at least they are coming before the Board and they are asking us to approve
what they are doing, they have to. So, I can buy the house next to you and I can put four hippies in there
and you couldn’t say a word about it and Mr. Hall couldn’t say well, did you do the background check.
No one could ask any questions. I’m getting to the point where I’m almost feeling a little offended by
what the Board is asking and questioning here. They are not looking to put up a facility to house
criminals, to house people of questionable character, they are looking to do what I would love to be able
to do for my parents what I would love to be able to do when I get older. Do you want to live on Ridge
Road? Why won’t you live on Ridge Road?
Mr. Fregoe: I chose to live on Denishire Drive because it was a very commercial, residential
neighborhood. I did not anticipate a business going across the street from me.
Mr. Young: Do you want to live on Ridge Road?
Mr. Fregoe: No I don’t. That’s why I don’t live there.
Mr. Young: When you get older do you want to live on Ridge Road?
Mr. Fregoe: Well we’ll see what happens when I get older. It might be a nice property on Ridge Road far
off the street. Do you want to be a little more specific on the property, how far the setbacks are.
Mr. Young: So, it’s I don’t mind this but I don’t want it next to my house? That’s what you are saying.
Mr. Fregoe: I don’t mind the old people living next to me. What I mind is that it’s a rental property. This
is a commercial rental business with a side order of home health care and because we label it as for
seniors now all of a sudden it’s just legal, the Town Board loves it? Just because we put an age limit on
it? And health care on it?
Mr. Young: There’s no age limit on it.
Mr. Fregoe: There is, seniors.
Mr. Young: There’s no age limit.
Ms. Field: The application has an age limit on it, the amendment to the Code has no age limit on it.
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Mr. Smith: Another thing if I remember right anyway is that the home health care services doesn’t have
an age limit. They could have young people and they could go in and help them but that’s not what they
want to do here. They want to limit it to 55 or older or whatever they asked for.
Mr. Young: Would it make a difference if it’s handicapped children living next to you? Four handicapped
children?
Mr. Fregoe: If it’s an agency, a not for profit agency, which we currently have in the Town of Ogden
yeah. Most of your agencies are not for profit. These group homes are not for profit agencies and we
have some scattered about the Town of Ogden now.
Mr. Young: Now, if it’s not for profit, that’s okay if it’s next to you?
Mr. Fregoe: But then again I also have an agency that owns the home, services the home, and services the
clients. I don’t have two independent parties. There’s no contract between these two individuals that I
know of. They haven’t said there is a contract between them.
Mr. Young: Why does it make a difference?
Mr. Gauvin: You haven’t asked.
Mr. Fregoe: Okay, I’ll ask. Is there a contract between the two?
Mr. Gauvin: Yes, there is.
Mr. Young: Why does it make a difference?
Mr. Fregoe: I just have a problem with legalizing rental properties that’s all.
Mr. Young: Well, right now in this Town you can put a rental property anyplace and we can’t say a word
about it.
Mr. Hall: But the key is a single family. You can’t just rent it to four college kids. It ain’t gonna happen.
You can’t rent.
Ms. Burley: You don’t know if that’s happening Tom. I’ve got that next door to me. I’ve got a family
that rented out to one kid who’s now got four other buddies living with him. They are all paying rent.
They are partying all night long. I’d much rather have the seniors living next to me.
Mr. Hall: I’m not saying that the idea here isn’t a good idea. What I’m saying is I have to go along with
Duane that Denishire Drive is not the place for this operation.
Ms. Burley: I have to disagree. I think a neighborhood is a much better place than a Ridge Road would
be. I’d much rather have my parents in a neighborhood.
Mr. Fregoe: You are comparing Whittier Road to Ridge Road?
Mr. Young: Sure.
Ms. Burley: Yeah.
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Mr. Fregoe: Ridge Road and Whittier Road are two different animals.
Mr. Young: I don’t understand though. I just can’t wrap my head around why not this neighborhood.
Well, let’s put it over here. What the heck does it make a difference? I mean wouldn’t you want your
parents to be in a nice neighborhood that you live in?
Mr. Fregoe: I have traffic concerns too. They can say all they want, past history is no indication of future
performance.
Mr. Young: Traffic for who? The amount of traffic going in and out of there?
Mr. Fregoe: Relatives visiting these four individuals.
Mr. Young: How about your neighbors? How many people go in and out of there?
Mr. Fregoe: Not a lot.
Mr. Young: I have neighbors that their relatives are over all the time I never know who’s there. I don’t
understand the uproar. We’ve had a lot of things come before this Board before us that have legitimate
traffic concerns, legitimate “who’s there” concerns. The last application was for a Bed and Breakfast,
same thing, not this neighborhood. Well, shall we say not in this town, because that’s what we are
saying? They want to move it over to this neighborhood, people are going to come in and say the exact
same thing.
Mr. Fregoe: We can’t say not in this town, we have a Code that is going to allow it now.
Mr. Young: Well, people keep coming in and saying “love the idea, not in my neighborhood”.
Mr. Fregoe: Thank you for your opinion Mark, how about I finish up here. This Board always been
concerned about in-law apartments and the potential to get rented to a non-family member and become
absentee owner, two family rentals. I’ll take it to the development north of Pineway Ponds Park that
came before this Board. The guy bought the house and was remodeling it for a two-family. The Building
Dept. got involved and brought him in before the Board. This room was packed, standing room only.
And needless to say we rejected it. It was a bad fit for that neighborhood but I still remember that meeting
very well and there is one question that we never asked that individual that was renting that property,
what was the age of your future applicants going to be? Thank you.
Ms. LaTray: Thank you and I appreciate your concern. In choosing a location like Denishire is to really
preserve what makes it great. We’re going in knowing it’s great and wanting to keep it that way. I would
say if we are looking for some precedents six to seven years ago same sort of concerns, outcrys were in
regards to group homes caring for veterans or developmentally disabled and the concerns that they had
and were voiced, six, seven years later, there were no complaints. These things that we are talking about
that we are afraid might happen in the past for these group homes did not happen. The things that we are
talking about, I want to be sober minded about them.
Ms. Zale: Are there any homes like this in Ogden or in the surrounding area? I know there are group
homes but anything like this?
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Ms. LaTray: Legally, no. Do people do this? Yes. We chose to come before you and be completely
compliant, and be completely “here’s what we are looking to do”. So, are there one’s that do this? I
believe that there are. I could not give you an address of that, we are setting precedence as far as giving
care, home care, which is again minimal. This is just allowing somebody to maintain that independence
before going on and getting much larger care.
Mr. Hall: We have quite a few senior residents out here.
Mr. Mazza: I’m one. Steve Mazza, 16 Denishire Drive. I’m trying to understand this. Are you looking
to make this a commercial zone? What are you looking to make happen?
Mr. Hall: Well, the Town has changed the Code so that this can exist in a residential district. We are just
here as arbitrators.
Mr. Mazza: Is this a commercial property? Is that what it’s going to be? A commercial property?
Mr. Young: It doesn’t change what it’s zoned as. The Code allows for certain things that would be
commercial use.
Mr. Mazza: Commercial, right? And I really respect what they are trying to do but it’s about money, am I
right? You are going to make money. I know you are worried about the old people but it’s still about
money, right?
Mr. Young: It’s a business. No one runs a business to lose money.
Mr. Mazza: So, I live at 16 Denishire. I live about four houses away. And I have a ranch, 2500 square
foot ranch that I pay $9000 a year for in taxes. Now can I make that rental property?
Mr. Young: Apparently.
Mr. Smith: Can I make a statement as far as the commercial? You can’t build residential in a commercial
or industrial parcel. So this is still residential and it’s a residence for those four people. I don’t know how
it’s commercial.
Mr. Mazza: Well, I’m asking the Board is this commercial?
Mr. Smith: If it’s money you are talking about you give out variances for in home occupations where the
lady bakes cakes in her house. You can do that and that is commercial because she is making money off it
but this is still a residential property and it’s not commercial.
Mr. Mazza: So, if I want to turn my house into a four family house I can do that? Is that what you are
telling me?
Mr. Young: A four family house?
Mr. Mazza: Well, four residents, whatever they are doing? Isn’t it a four family?
Mr. Young: If you want four unrelated people in your home, does it happen, absolutely.
Mr. Mazza: So, I could do that?
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Ms. Field: Not without legally coming before the Board.
Mr. Mazza: Why do I have to come to the Board? We changed the Codes so why would I have to come
to the Board?
Ms. Field: Because the Code that they are coming in and asking to be permitted to do this for, the Code
allows someone to come into the Zoning Board and ask if they may do it in a specific location. But there
are different types of things that individuals come to the Board for. In this circumstances it’s something
that the Town Board has now found is conditionally permitted, meaning that they have endorsed it but
with that endorsement an applicant still must come before the Board or the Board has the ability to look at
the location, look at all of the specifics and it has the ability to impose conditions that would be
appropriate for the application. Can you rent your house out? Yes, you can rent your house out. Can you
rent your house out to four unrelated individuals? Legally, you cannot.
Mr. Mazza: If the people in the neighborhood have a concern, does that matter? Do you guys take that
into consideration?
Mr. Young: This is something that the Board takes into consideration, yes.
Mr. Mazza: Okay because I think you live on Cross bow? Longbow, I’m sorry. Do you think the people
on Longbow, because I know quite a few people there, several people there, not quite a few, but do you
think the people in Longbow, the housing that is there, $300,000-$500,000 houses would appreciate this?
Mr. Young: First of all if they were $300,000-$400,000, I would love that.
Mr. Mazza: Well they are. There are some nice one’s there, you and I know it.
Mr. Young: Farther away from me. I can’t speak for them. I can speak for myself.
Mr. Mazza: Would you appreciate that?
Mr. Young: Absolutely.
Mr. Mazza: Okay, I guess you are different. But I gotta tell ya as a resident of Ogden I moved to Ogden
to get away from commercial property. And not to subject myself to people living in rental properties
next door to me and I pay $9,000 in taxes and that ain’t easy. That’s not easy. The whole neighborhood is
taxed right to the hilt. It’s not easy for them either. And to hear this, I hear their compassion, but it’s crap.
It’s not about compassion, it’s about money. You know it, I know it, and they know it. It’s about money.
Thank you.
Ms. LaTray: Again, I appreciate that opinion and I want to talk about the choice of being for profit versus
non-profit and I just saw several applicants that preceded me today and we celebrated the success of them
as a business. A business owner that is successful is going to keep reinvesting in their property, care for
the property and be far more vigilant in ensuring the care of the property. Being for profit is a benefit as
well and I believe that this town celebrates the success of businesses.
Mr. Hall: Anyone else to speak for or against? Yes, sir, step right up. Name, rank and serial number.
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Mr. Stone: My name is John Stone and I live at 43 Denishire Drive, just the residence to the east of the
proposed applicant. Once again, I appreciate what you’re saying and what you’re trying to do. I’ve heard
a lot of emotional pleas tonight, a lot of emotion, very little fact. I’m here just to address the facts. I
addressed those facts at the town meeting, which were the property value of my home, the safety of my
six children. I’ve heard nothing tonight to protect either one of those. Your comps as a realtor don’t
protect my property values. And it is clear again tonight that there are no background checks, there is no
way to protect my children who like to play out in the backyard freely, supervised by my wife and I.
There’s no way to protect them from problematic residents/neighbors. And many of you, several of you,
and you in particular Mark, raised it several times, have said “well that’s the way it is now”. What would
preclude you from having a neighbor move in and that situation come up? That is true. That is what I
signed up for in 2001 when I bought my home. I signed up for R1 with the known residential
occupancies in my neighborhood. That’s what I pay my $8600 in taxes for. There’s probably $100,000 of
taxes sitting right over there. And I think our opinions are valid. But I’m here to really focus on the facts.
I want to protect my property values. I want to protect my children. I’ve heard nothing to do either. So, I
appreciate the emotional pleas but that’s not going to sway me either way. The other thing because much
of what I would say would have been repetitive, I do believe it’s important to look at the property itself
before you make a decision. I don’t know if you guys have been by, have you been by the home? All of
you? Are you aware that on the left side of the home there’s question as to the setback. We’re not only
talking about the commercial realtor coming in and buying a property and renting it to someone else,
we’re talking about that happening where I question if, even the setback on the left side is even
appropriate. So, I think some due diligence really needs to go into this case before you render a decision
but once again, I’ll just close by saying, I appreciate what you’re trying to do. I don’t think our street is
appropriate for it. So I’m going to say, not in my neighborhood. And I just want to protect my six
children, my wife and my property value. I think that’s a fair thing to ask, don’t you agree?
Mr. McAtee: Mr. Stone, what would it take to make you happy about the protection of your children? A
fence around the property perhaps? Would that be appropriate?
Mr. Stone: It doesn’t have anything to do with a fence. I’m actually not really a big fan of fences. It has
to do more with knowing who’s living there. Nobody can tell me in this room that a sex offender will not
live there. Nobody can tell me that a person who’s got some hidden desires for young children that hasn’t
yet, you know, come out is not going to live there. Nobody can police the type of residents that are going
to be there. So, I don’t think it’s appropriate with homes so close, in a closed-loop neighborhood, call it
what you want. I don’t think it’s appropriate that type of operation to be there. If you could ensure me,
tell me, guarantee me, that you could protect the safety and well-being of my children and protect my
property values, that would be what would make me happy. So I’ll ask you, can you guarantee the safety
of my children and property value of my home? Thank you.
Mr. McAtee: No, no one could guarantee that with whoever moves into the house.
Mr. Stone: No, and I understand that. But you asked me a question, and I’m giving you my answer.
Those are my concerns. I think they’re fair as a dad and a provider and a husband and a tax payer.
Mr. Hall: We appreciate your concerns. Pat, you have a question?
Mr. Smith: Yes, you stated something about the setback on the side.
Mr. Stone: I stated I had a concern because in researching this issue that sort of happened quickly. I
learned that…
Mr. Smith: We have a map that says it’s 20’, do you contest that the map is incorrect?
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Mr. Stone: Well I haven’t seen the map, I was just raising an issue that given there’s certain guidelines on
that side of the property is so close my property line that I think it’s important that we look at that and
understand if it fits within proper, I don’t know what the map says.
Mr. Smith: We have a signed map from a surveyor and it says it’s 20 feet. And the minimum is 15 feet.
So, I didn’t know whether you knew something about the map being incorrect.
Mr. Stone: No, I haven’t looked at a map but I just want to be sure that if we’re going to change the code,
which it’s already been changed, but allow a conditional use permit for something that was clearly
prohibited before to something now that we are taking into consideration everything. Cause 20 feet is
from here to there. I have kids, and my youngest is 7 and she’s a beautiful little young lady and I want
her to be able to run around. I mean I supervise her, obviously. But you know you’re talking about a very
close proximity and it’s a reasonable request that that be double checked. Did I answer your question?
Mr. Young: Got it. I just have to ask. Do you have anything to tell this board or show this board that if
this happens your property value will decrease or increase?
Mr. Stone: No, I didn’t say that I did. I just want my property values protected. And her comps in the
real estate market don’t protect my property values.
Mr. Young: I understand that. And as far as the protection goes, just as devil’s advocate here, do you
think your kids are better protected by knowing who’s next door or not knowing who’s moving in next
door? Let me qualify that, by knowing there are people that are at least 60, 65, 70 with supervisors there
24/7 or somebody or a family with kids that you don’t know.
Mr. Stone: You’re asking me a philosophical question and taking this argument to an emotional level that
I’m not really sure how to answer because obviously you’re asking the question to make a point. It’s kind
of clear your opinion on the matter and I understand that’s why you’re asking the question. So I don’t
know the answer to your question. Once again, I signed up for one thing in 2001 and whoever it can be is
asking to change that. I don’t agree with it.
Mr. Hall: We appreciate your statements and we have a few more people who would like to speak to this
situation. So, thank you sir. Is there anyone else that would like to come forward. This lady right here,
state your name and address please.
Ms. Mazza: My name is Annette Mazza. I’m at 60 Denishire and I have some questions so maybe you
can help me out with that. I will tell you that the way you are describing it to me is a rental unit. So, it’s
very clear to me that you are purchasing a property to turn into a rental unit. I understand what’s going to
happen inside that rental unit. So you’re going to rent four bedrooms and you’re going to have shared
living space. My question to you is regard to turnover. Can you give me an idea of what happens, I
mean, do they come in for 2 months and then go out? Do they come in for 2 years and go out? Do they
die there? Do they move onto an assisted living facility? If you could give me some understanding of
that.
Mr. Gauvin: All of the above. My typical home care client is with us from 18 months to 5 years. We
have some clients that have been with me since the year 2000, which is great. But our typical client is 18
months and they go to one of two places. They usually expire or go to a skilled nursing facility because
they’ve outlived what we can provide them.
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Ms. Mazza: Ok. While you’re here, can you explain to me what other types of facilities you currently
manage today?
Mr. Gauvin: None, zero.
Ms. Mazza: So this is your first foray into doing anything like this?
Mr. Gauvin: In a four-house, correct.
Ms. Mazza: Ok. Wait a minute. In a four-house? So, what does that mean? So does that mean you do
have other businesses though because you have 350 employees, right?
Mr. Gauvin: Right. All home care. All coming in to take care of your mom or your mom and dad in their
home or in an assisted living facility or at a skilled nursing. We do some in various different residences
from apartments to homes to assisted livings to nursing homes.
Ms. Mazza: Ok, you answered my question. Thank you. Another question I have is, and this maybe to
you. If it doesn’t work, and you now have this zoned, or whatever the conditional use is, to be able to
have 4 individuals, unrelated individuals living in the home, could it be rented out to anybody?
Mr. Young: I’ll answer that, no. Conditional use is a specific condition of use of that property.
Ms. Mazza: But we talked about, he could rent out his house, right? He could rent out his house to four
family members so my question is, could you rent it out to ex-cons? Could you rent it out to mental
incapable people? Could you rent it out to sex offenders that need a halfway house?
Ms. Field: Just like you could.
Ms. Mazza: So the answer is yes to all of that.
Ms. Field: Not to four people. You may rent your house.
Ms. Mazza: The answer is yes.
Ms. LaTray: Can I answer another part of the question? One of the things that we are saying is that just
like they are saying, anybody can rent. We are adding a much larger level of screening. You have much
better chance of having somebody that is not in those categories with us then having somebody just
purchase that house.
Ms. Mazza: As long as everything works, right? As long as you have the capacity and you’ve got the
volume of people.
Ms. LaTray: Right, we’re screening and doing more due diligence than if someone just rented next door.
Ms. Mazza: You mentioned earlier that this is not a state funded or a state run senior rental. And your
comment as you were sitting down was “not yet”, “not yet”.
Ms. LaTray: He has a bad sense of humor some times.
Ms. Mazza: Yeah…it’s not making me laugh. To the board, if this were to become a state-run facility,
you’re out of it, right? You don’t make any decisions on the state-run facility?
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Mr. Smith: The only thing that can be done is a home care services facility, which there’s a definition for
and they have to have a home care services facility license. So you can’t make it a, well I should say, you
can’t make it a group home. But if it was a group home, the town can’t stop them.
Ms. Mazza: That’s exactly right, and that’s my point to you. My point is that we’re halfway there now
because it’s now a…what are you calling it? A group home?
Mr. Smith: No.
Ms. Mazza: What are you calling this home?
Mr. Smith: A home care services facility.
Ms. Mazza: A home care facility. Ok, and my question is specifically, that when we were talking about
no, it’s not state run, this gentleman said, “not yet”, “not yet”, which makes me think that maybe he’s got
another plan for this to turn into a state run facility or maybe he’s going to get an application for a state
run facility.
Mr. Gauvin: May I answer that?
Ms. Mazza: Hang on. It’s not really a question to you, it’s a question to them. My question to them is if
he can apply for a state run facility for that house, you’re out of it. Am I correct in that? I mean, it’s all
about the state, not about the town at that point, right?
Mr. Smith: No.
Ms. Mazza: I mean, I tried to do some reading up on this.
Mr. Smith: That would mean the Town Board would have to allow it. Like the Town Board just allowed
this one certain facility. Ok? That’s all the town allowed, is this one facility. So if the state decided to
run it, I guess they could if the State took over. Because the State provides him with a license, so if the
State wanted to run it that would be up to the state.
Ms. Mazza: Right, and he would apply for that through the state, correct? That’s how that works.
Mr. Smith: I guess I’m not following.
Ms. Mazza: I am.
Ms. Field: This is not what the application is before this board.
Ms. Mazza: I understand that. What my fear is that what they’re applying for and what you’re agreeing
or disagreeing for is a halfway point to something else. That’s my fear. So I just wanted to make that.
And the last question I have is, on your street in Pittsford, do you have a senior home?
Ms. LaTray: I do not.
Ms. Mazza: It’s very unfortunate that you don’t. Very unfortunate that you don’t.
Ms. LaTray: Instead we have homes for people that are developmentally disabled. Actually I have
---inaudible----
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Ms. Mazza: Ok, thank you guys, you answered all my questions.
Mr. Hall: Thank you. Anyone else to speak for or against this application?
Ms. Sexstone: My name is Pat Sexstone and I live at 36 Denishire. Ok, it’s my information that this is
the first facility of its kind to be in a proposed residential neighborhood track subdivision. Am I correct?
In New York State?
Mr. Gauvin: No.
Ms. Sexstone: In Rochester?
Mr. Gauvin: In Ogden.
Ms. Sexstone: How about in Pittsford? Do you have one?
Mr. Gauvin: I don’t live in Pittsford.
Ms. LaTray: Yes, they do. Actually and they have a 6 plus people instead of four.
Ms. Sexstone: Is there statistics on what has happened with the residential neighborhood?
Ms. LaTray: There’s been no decline on property values. And if the board would be interested in a
report, I’d be happy to provide that.
Ms. Sexstone: I’d be interested in seeing that. I was listening to things earlier too and this is an adult
facility that to me does not fit into the character of our neighborhood. We have homes in the
neighborhood. We don’t have facilities. We do not have rental properties on our street. I’m concerned
about, you say that there’s not going to be traffic, I can’t buy that. You’re going to have home health
aides coming in. You’ve got to transport these people to and from their doctor’s appointments. Somehow
they’ve got to stores and shopping. We could have, I mean, we’re in a neighborhood where we have kids
playing hockey on the street. We have kids playing four square on the street. We have at times 100 trickor-treaters on the street. I mean, to me, now you’re going to have to transport these people to and from
places and who’s going to be coming in, Liftline or something like that? By bringing other people in
there is going to be more traffic on the street. And we have a lot of young kids. I agree with what Duane
said earlier, that I think it would be easier if a residence like this was put on a Whittier Rd, Stony Point,
Buffalo Rd, where there’d be easier access in and out and we have a speed limit of 30. Where the other
streets, some of them do, most of them are 35 or 50. Also, what about garbage cans? Is there going to be
any hazardous waste material?
Ms. LaTray: Are you listing questions and then I’ll come up?
Ms. Sexstone: I’m just asking if you have, if you’re going to have that many residents, are we going to be
seeing numerous garbage cans outside the home? I see them in group homes and everyplace else.
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Ms. LaTray: Can I answer that? First of all, as far as having more garbage cans, we have four people
living in a building. I believe my next door neighbor has 6 kids and 2 adults, that’s eight. I’m probably
going to have less trash cans then the neighbor next door. I’d also address the traffic that I mentioned and
the amount of use for this will be less than traditional homes. That is a 3-car garage with 6 car parking, so
that’s nine. We’re not even going to come close to what its designed for and standard family, we’re
having less traffic than a standard family would have in that neighborhood.
Ms. Sexstone: whispered: I don’t know about that. Now, the Zoning Board of Appeals apparently will
impose conditions or limitation upon such home care service facilities as to protect the health, safety and
welfare of the citizens of the Town of Ogden, while at the same time allowing for such home care facility
be established in the town. Who is going to oversee and regulate the age of the occupants and the
discretion and impose conditions as it deems reasonable and prudent? Is there going to be somebody
that’s going to oversee this and look at this home periodically and re-evaluate it or no? To make sure
everything is under the guidelines.
Ms. Field: The Building Inspector, currently Mr. Smith, is charged with overseeing violations in the
Town of Ogden, if the town is aware of code violations or in this case, if someone would be in violation
of conditions. The appropriate procedures would be followed just as they are for every other instance
where conditions are placed on an application that’s granted before this board.
Ms. Sexstone: Ok, another question is, you say that this is going to be primarily private pay, the residents
or private insurance coverage. What happens when there money runs out and they can no longer provide
for that? Or their health diminishes? What if the individual from the facility or their family member
refuse them to leave?
Ms. LaTray: I do not understand the last question.
Ms. Sexstone: If they run out of money and they have to go under Medicaid, you’re saying that they can
no longer stay in the facility, and they have to be removed from the facility, what if the family members
don’t agree with that? Agree with having them moved. What if they say, “no, they’ve been here all this
time, we don’t want them to move”, etc., how are you going to get them out of the house?
Mr. Gauvin: There are only two options. And the reality is if the kids don’t want them to move, they can
certainly continue to pay or we can’t provide care to Medicaid personnel. I’m not a CA. Certified
Agency, I’m sorry. A certified agency is the only agency that can provide Medicaid service. They can
bill Medicaid. We can’t provide Medicaid services. So theoretically, if they’re on Medicaid, I can no
longer care for them. They’re at risk. I would have to report them to Adult Protective. And Adult
Protective would remove them from the house. Because it would be an unsafe environment.
Ms. Sexstone: Ok.
Ms. LaTray: As I reviewed this idea and addressed the same concerns, when it came up with what
happens if somebody does not, I asked Mr. Gauvin for his experience with that. In the thousands that he
has cared for, I believe this has happened once or twice. It’s happened twice and there was something that
was called the Gauvin foundation, I believe. So, this out of thousands of people has happened twice so
the likelihood is really minimal that something like this would happen.
Mr. Hall: This lady, you may come up now.
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Ms. Pegler: Regina Pegler, 61 Denishire. My question is with the staff that’s going to be at the home.
You said that the home health aides have two weeks of training. And how is there screening process?
How do we know that our kids are going to be safe with people that have had two weeks of training?
That’s what I want to know. And they are coming and going, different staff all day long. That’s what I
have problem with.
Mr. Gauvin: The question was asked about how much training is involved and it is a two week training
program. However, in order to become a home health aide, you have to have a criminal background
check. You have to have a physical. You’ve got to be cleared through the state in order to be employed,
even before the start of training.
Ms. Pegler: Is that how nursing home employees also get trained? And there’s also been knowledge of
people that work in nursing homes that have gone to jail for abuse and things like that also. I’m done.
Mr. Hall: And this young lady.
Ms. Feketi: Hi, Judith Feketi. I live at 57 Denishire Drive and I’m going to be 70 in a little while, maybe
in two months. I find that I worked in a nursing home. I worked in home health care and the biggest
problem I have is having staff come. I don’t know how many times I had to take my staff away because
there wasn’t adequate staffing. They switch people around so that when the state came in that every area
was covered but mine. I went into homes. I stayed in there when there was snow. What are you going to
do, I mean, can you tell me that there’s going to be adequate staff there? Will there be two or just one?
I’m torn because I love adults. I worked in that for 20 years. I’m really torn but…you know, I’ve seen
people die. You’re going to have a hearse coming, I’m sorry, that’s it. There could be a hearse coming
down the road when your kids are out there playing. Death and dying is ok for adults but not for children.
And I love adults, elderly, because I’m one. I’m torn.
Ms. LaTray: Can I ask you a question? Would you want the ability to choose a peaceful neighborhood at
your age or in 5 years?
Ms. Feketi: I did.
Ms. LaTray: Exactly
Ms. Feketi: I’m living there, yes. But I don’t know if we can afford to stay anymore. We’re paying out
$6000 and we’re both retired. Maybe we’re going to have to give it up and go somewhere else because…
Mr. Young: Zoning Board not the Town Board.
Ms. Feketi: I love where we are at. We have deer and we have lots of mosquitos. It’s a swamp back
there. You better use a lot of mosquito stuff.
Mr. Hall: Next please.
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Ms. Guy: Well, I wasn’t planning on speaking but my name is Ruth Guy and I live at 14 Denishire and
I’m the first house that every vehicle has to past to go down there. I have a 5 year old grandson that lives
with us. There are no sidewalks in our neighborhood. The kids are in the street. The dogs are in the
street. My grandson is chasing after the people who walk their dogs to go see their dogs, ok. That’s my
main concern is not the people that are going to live there but the staff that is coming in. and the traffic
and there will be traffic. With the traffic, I was wondering if it’s an advantage, are we going to get
plowed out first now? So these people can get in and out? I’m serious because we’re plowed out last, ok.
We’re plowed out last so now these people have to get in and out and it’s very necessary for them to get in
and get out and the hearses and the ambulances and all of that. There are lots of new families. I’ve lived
in my house almost 30 years and it’s a wonderful neighborhood. There are kids and elders are sometimes
agitated by little kids that are running and screaming and riding their bikes and making lots of noise. So
there’s that too. And I’ve seen a lot of new families are moving in with either they have kids or they’re
going to have kids. And I’m mostly concerned about the traffic and she keeps saying it’s not going to be
but it does. I’ve lived there when they are building and doing all the other buildings on there and the
traffic, it increases and it all goes down by my house. And I yell at the people that go too fast and I will
take down license plates and I need a number to call when they are going too fast down my street,
because I will call. The other thing is is I’ve lived there almost 30 years, it’s a residential neighborhood,
not a rental. I don’t know anybody that rents in our neighborhood. I don’t know multiple family’s homes
but now some of my friends that their kids are gone, now I can see that they can rent those extra rooms
out to people cause you all just said we could. So, thank you.
Mr. Hall: Well this board is not going to approve you renting out all those rooms. I can tell you that.
Who else would like to speak to this board tonight? We may be here until midnight. Don’t be bashful,
we’ve heard some interesting comments. I don’t want anyone to leave here that hasn’t spoken their
peace.
Mr. Burns: I’m Hugh Burns, from 40 Denishire Drive. I support everything that’s been said by my
fellow neighbors. The only two comments that I had was 20 years I built a home there for my family. It
was for a residential area. We can call it what we want, at the end of the day, it’s a business with workers
in a residential area. I don’t support that. You might want to support it, not on my street. Another thing, I
just want to clarify, we keep talking about rental because I have a lot of bedrooms too. I want to make
sure, I can rent out all my rooms now and there’s no issue? I bring it up because I hear about places like
in Brockport there’s requirements that you can’t do that. Can I really do that?
Ms. Field: No.
Mr. Burns: No I can’t or yes I can.
Ms. Field: No you cannot rent out rooms in your house. You may rent your entire house out. You may
move away from your house and you may rent your house. People buy properties and use them as rental
properties.
Mr. Young: To one family.
Ms. Field: To one family, correct.
Mr. Burns: To one family, non-related.
Mr. Young: It has to be all related.
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Mr. Burns: So what’s the difference between this when they’re four unrelated then? They’re renting
aren’t they?
Mr. McAtee: It’s the law. The code says we can do this now.
Mr. Burns: So if I get a law changed that says I can, we can? I’ll be honest, I was very surprised to see
that that was approved myself.
Mr. Young: If you want to have three elderly people and have home health care people in your house, you
can come before this board and ask for that.
Mr. Burns: Why would I have to ask for something special if I just want to rent it out?
Mr. Young: That why they call it a special use permit.
Mr. Burns: But you’re providing the more today. They can rent plus do home health care. I just want to
rent. So what’s the difference?
Mr. Young: You can only rent to people that are related to you.
Mr. Burns: But they don’t have to.
Mr. Young: Because there’s a special law now that says they can ask for that.
Mr. McAtee: We didn’t write the law.
Mr. Burns: Somebody approved it, didn’t they?
Mr. McAtee: We didn’t.
Mr. Young: Your town board approved it.
Mr. Burns: They didn’t ask me.
Mr. McAtee: It was advertised. You could’ve commented on it.
Mr. Young: They posted it.
Mr. Burns: I didn’t see it, sorry. So we can’t rent.
Ms. Field: No, you can rent the entire house to a single family.
Mr. Young: Or you can charge your kids.
Ms. Field: You may not rent it out to unrelated individuals.
Mr. Burns: It just seems strange. I’ll leave it at that. Thank you.
Mr. Hall: You should sit up here if you think that sounds strange. Anyone else care to speak for or
against this? Everybody’s satisfied that they’re….well, no.
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Ms. Cordts: I wasn’t going to say anything either. I came with the agenda of keeping mum. My name is
Jill Cordts, I am speaking as an individual. I’m actually the president of Spencerport Area Chamber of
Commerce but I’m speaking as an individual and as a citizen of Spencerport and Ogden. I would like to
make a public invitation, come move to my street. On my street, I have a sex offender who actually
moved in with his partner, down the road. He did not register online, as he was supposed to, he just
moved in. There’s nothing I can do about that, he’s there.
Mr. Young: Not true, you can call the police to take care of that.
Ms. Cordts: And they did. There was a petition and stuff but once he follows the rules, there’s nothing
you can do with ejecting him from the neighborhood. I also have a nursing home on my street, which is
interesting because people are talking about traffic and the traffic isn’t really horrible. Probably once a
week they have Buffalo Hospital Supply or whatever, drop off their equipment and their truckloads. But
what’s another interesting thing about our street is we have a lot of senior citizens on our street. And my
husband and I are very nervous because they’re getting to the point of either expiring or moving onto
another facility so that opens a wide door for whoever might be coming in, or moving in. Just across the
street from us, we luckily have a young couple with two itty bitty kids. But the family before that
actually rented out the room and they rented it to, I think a Brockport college student at one point. They
didn’t come here and ask the town to rent that room and yet they did. And we were woken up at all hours
of the night. Finally he was evicted by the homeowner but at the same time, they had another couple
move in and it was a couple it wasn’t just an individual, who came in and rented. That was a good fit but
again, there’s no control. Adjacent to our property is another home and that was purchased by a woman
and her partner. They since split, and now there’s probably four different roommates living and paying
rent, although that’s not substantiated. And so we have a lot of different people coming in and we,
homeowners, pay $14,000 in property taxes living in the village a year. There’s no control, absolutely no
control. I see this home as a welcome opportunity. And a little bit of background too. My grandparents
passed away when they were 93 and 98, which was about 5 years ago for my grandmother and about 10
years for my grandfather, and I moved in and took care of them. I put my life on hold and took care of
them because they fought until the end of their days to be in their home because that is where they were
comfortable. And this, I see, as just a great opportunity to have great people of character move into our
neighborhoods and they’re getting that home feel, that community, that love, that acceptance there. And I
would have loved to have that be available to my grandparents had that been around. Another thing too, a
little side note, is I noticed my grandmother, it was a joke, she would say, I’ve got to get home so I can
take a nap before bedtime. So she would go and watch her shows and stuff and she’d take a nap before
bedtime. She’d head to bed around 9:00 and then she was up around 3 am because she couldn’t sleep
anymore. She was up and she now became the watchdog of that street. She knew who was there, what
was going on, and if I could have that kind of neighbor on my street, I’d be all excited about it.
Another thing, I am a business owner and off the record or on the record, whatever, I have had the
privilege of working with Cheryl LaTray on a lot of different other projects. She is very upstanding, she
is a woman of integrity. Wherever her name is mentioned, all you get are accolades and kudos and a lot
of positive feedback. I have no doubt in my mind that what she says, what she’s promising, she will
deliver.
Mr. Young: Thank you.
Mr. Hall: Anyone else? You want a second shot at us?
Mr. Smith: If he doesn’t, I have one too.
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Mr. Stone: Just briefly, yeah. I appreciate what you said. And I appreciate that you had no intention of
talking and that you weren’t here as the President of the Spencerport Chamber of Commerce but you
stated you’re here as the President of the Chamber of Commerce and I appreciate your antidotes. They’re
great emotional pleas. Once again, this is about the conditional use of this home. It’s not about Ogden
township. It’s not about the need for the operation. Certainly not questioning your integrity. Nobody
has. It’s about this home, on this street. So I just want to refocus the story, the folklore here, the storyline
to this property. As opposed to, character references and what we wished we had. I do have one question,
the nursing home, was that on your street when you moved in? So, you signed up for that.
Ms. Cordts: But I don’t know if it was there when my husband actually bought the home.
Mr. Stone: Ok, so you signed up for that. Right, so it was there when you moved there. You knew that
was there. This is different. When I signed up for my home, this proposed operation wasn’t there. This
is a completely different operation. I mean no disrespect, I truly do not mean any disrespect but I don’t
agree with the emotional pleas. Ok, this is factual analysis of what’s going on and I hope unlike the
Ogden Town Board meeting, when I clearly stated my questions and fears, as well as Duane, clearly
explained his questions and fears, the Board didn’t render a decision that night. Rendered it later on and
that was it, regardless of our questions and fears. And I hope your intentions are to listen and make an
educated decision based on the facts as opposed to the emotional pleas that have been thrown out here
tonight. Thanks.
Mr. Smith: First off, as far as when the board doesn’t render a decision that night, I believe personally,
it’s a better thing because they have time to think about it. Not like if they render a decision that night,
they already pre-made up their mind. So I think that’s actually a good thing. At least they have time to
think about it, I know that’s the reason they do it. I have a resident that lives, I believe, right next door to
45. She says she’s at 47 Denishire. She emailed us and she couldn’t be here so she wanted me to read
what she had. She has two pages of stuff, so what I did is I went through and I’m only going to say the
things that haven’t already been brought up.
Mr. Fregoe: I’d ask that it be on the record. I’d like the whole letter read tonight. We have not had a
chance to read it ourselves.
Mr. Smith: If that’s what you’d like.
Mr. Hall: Read it please.
Mr. Smith reads letter from Regina Zielke. Letter is on file.
Mr. Hall: Thank you.
Ms. LaTray: Can I just do a summary? It’s my understanding that most of the questions that she put in
there have actually been answered. So I guess I just want to kind of wrap up that what we are talking
about is a home, not a facility. I’m talking about taking care of parents. You don’t want an emotional
plea, but that’s what I’m hearing, emotional pleas. I’m asking for, as you consider this, what’s allowable.
We don’t get to control how much traffic is coming in and out of any other neighbor, that you ask the
same of these senior citizens as we would anybody else. This really is intended to be care with slight
oversight so that seniors have the ability to maintain their independence. Thank you for your time.
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Mr. Young: One thing I don’t think our sub-chairman told you earlier. This is normally a seven member
board and you need four members to vote for you. This is now a six member board, because someone has
recused himself and someone is missing tonight.
Ms. LaTray: Correct.
Mr. Young: I’d also like to add to that, come January, we will be losing one of our members and someone
else will be taking her spot. You have the right, if you want it, to table it for a period of 60 days.
Ms. LaTray: I appreciate that. I had thought about that as I did the head count. And quite honestly, this
has created a hardship for the seller on this property. My offer on the property was contingent on this. I
would like to see that if we didn’t end up getting this approved, that he try to get what I have offered for
this. But since this hardship on the seller, it is my reason for saying that I am open for voting tonight.
Because the seller would not be able to do another 60 days waiting for the decision.
Mr. Young: Do you want the vote tonight?
Ms. LaTray: Yes.
Ms. Field: And I will advise the board, while the applicant requested a vote tonight, the board has 60
days to render a decision.
Mr. Hall: Well, we will get to that point, I can assure you. We have one gentleman back here who would
like to speak something very quickly. We need your name again.
Mr. Mazza: Steven Mazza, 60 Denishire Drive. Her comment, as a hardship on the seller. Well, I gotta
tell you, the seller has put nothing into the property. Matter fact, he’s put a hardship onto the
neighborhood. For the way he’s let the property run down. So I really don’t care if it’s a hardship on the
seller.
Ms. LaTray: We’re going to improve the property.
Mr. Mazza: You’re gonna make a lot of money. That’s what you’re going to do. You’re going to make a
lot of money at our expense. So anyway, again, he has done nothing to the property. He’s run the property
down. Thank you.
Mr. Hall: Thank you. You’d like to say one thing.
Mr. Gauvin: One thing and one thing only. And the reality is, if this board decides that Denishire is not
the place to put this family home then we will retract our offer or she will retract the offer and it will go
on the market. And the one, people talk about facts, here is a fact, whoever buys that house will not come
before this board and be questioned the way Cheryl and I have. That is a fact, that’s not emotional, that’s
reality. I can only ask you to render your decision and we will make our decision accordingly.
Mr. Smith: Just for the record, can I have you answer one question that I noted here that I read in this
letter.
Mr. Gauvin: Sure.
Mr. Smith: Is the town receiving any funding, grants, etc for allowing such use at said premises.
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Mr. Gauvin: Not to my knowledge.
Mr. Smith: I didn’t know if you wanted to go on record.
Mr. Gauvin: Not to my knowledge.
Mr. Hall: Sir, you’d like to say something.
Mr. Fregoe: Yeah, Duane Fregoe again, 46 Denishire Drive. The fact that he just mentioned, was a
condition put on him by Town Board, not by the Zoning Board. One thing that hasn’t been discussed
tonight, is part of the restrictions of this thing. It only talks about senior citizens. This board has the
ability to put an age limit on what a senior citizen is. And I hope it’s not 50 because I’m almost 55. I
don’t know my definition of a senior citizen is 65 range and up. Still somewhat healthy. Yeah, I think
that needs to be discussed tonight too before we put this thing to a vote and as I said earlier, this is a
precedence setting vote for the rest of the Town of Ogden. My concern is if the word gets out, the real
estate investors will come running here. That’s the vision I see right now so it’s your call. Thanks.
Mr. Young: And for that reason, I would be moving to table the vote.
Mr. Hall: I don’t think I will entertain a motion to table it.
Mr. Young: You have to entertain my vote.
Mr. McAtee: I would just as soon see it tabled.
Mr. Young: Let’s let it go to the board then….
Mr. Hall: Let’s let the board speak to each other here briefly. First of all, I’m concerned about these
“senior” getting kicked around. I’m 78 years old and I am not a senior yet. So, let’s get that straight.
Corey, what do you think?
Mr. McAtee: I’d like to see it tabled.
Mr. Hall: You’d like to see it tabled. Kristen?
Ms. Zale: I’m standing pretty firm from where I spoke earlier. I just don’t think this is the neighborhood
so if the board would like to table it so we have a fuller board, I’m fine with that.
Mr. Hall: And I’m sure you want to table it.
Mr. Young: Correct.
Mr. Smith: How long until we have a full board? I don’t know if we’ll have anybody new in January.
Mr. Hall: Well we’ll have 60 days if we table it so we’ll have until February.
Mr. Young: From my information, I believe we will.
Mr. Smith: Ok, a town board member spoke in my ear before he left and he didn’t think we would have a
new person on there for January.
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Mr. Young: We have until February.
Mr. Smith: Ok.
Mr. Hall: Consensus on the board that we table it.
Mr. McAtee: I don’t want to table it because of the size of the board, I want some more time to think
about it and look at the things we heard tonight.
Mr. Young: Me too.
Ms. Field: And I’ll ask the board, are you closing the public hearing and allowing yourself the 60 days to
render a decision or are you tabling it and leaving the hearing open.
Mr. Young: I would make the motion that we close the public hearing because it’s 10:00 and we’ve heard,
I think, from most of people on Denishire, and we have until 60 days from today’s date to take a vote.
Mr. Hall: Anyone have a second for that motion?
Mr. McAtee: I’ll second that motion.
Mr. Hall: All is favor?
Mr. Smith: If it takes 60 days, only these members can vote because you’re not opening up the public
hearing. So Noelle, if she stays until whatever her ending date is, she could vote up until that date,
correct?
Mr. Young: If she’s a member of the board, absolutely.
Mr. Smith: But if she resigns, as of whatever it may be, January 1 st, and you don’t vote on it until the next
month, that’s the thing I’m wondering. Can Noelle still vote since she wouldn’t be officially on the
board?
Mr. Young: I don’t believe so. But I believe any member that was not here could review the notes and
review the entire transcript of what took place and vote.
Mr. Fregoe: Legal counsel, is that correct?
Mr. Young: Or do you want to table it and look into that?
Ms. Field: That is my understanding but I would have to do research on it because rarely would there be
a situation in where we know somebody would be off the board in the meantime. I can’t give you an
unequivocal answer.
Mr. Stone(?from audience): Just vote. She requested a vote, just vote.
Ms. Field: This board has the option to not…This board is not obligated to vote on the night that a matter
is heard.
Mr. Young: I made a motion.
Ms. Burley: Corey seconded it.
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Mr. Hall: All in favor?
Board: Aye.
Mr. Hall: So, we are tabling it for 60 days, closed, correct?
Mr. Young: Correct.
Ms. Mazza from audience: Crooked. That means they do it without you ever knowing what happens…
Ms. Field: No, excuse me. Excuse me. That is not what it means. It means, that the board cannot take
anymore testimony as it has been given before the board. No one else from Denishire can testify, no one
from Mrs. LaTray and Mr. Gauvin, they cannot take any more information from either party. The board
may review it’s notes, think about it and the board has time to decide. The board must vote at a public
meeting.
Mr. Young: We cannot discuss as a board outside of a public forum. We couldn’t get together in the back
room and talk about it. We have to vote on it in public.
Ms. Mazza: And do you announce that back in the Suburban News when you do that?
Mr. Hall: No.
Ms. Mazza: So I never know when you’re going to do it.
Mr. Hall: Call the building department and quiz them.
Ms. Field: It’s either 30 days or 60 days.
Mr. Young: Mr. Fregoe would know when.
Mr. Fregoe: Actually that January one got pushed to a Tuesday, didn’t it? Because we have Thursday is
New Years Day or something?
Mr. Young: Correct.
Ms. Field: The dates of the Zoning Board meetings are published on the Town website. The agenda is
also posted on the website.
Someone from the audience: So this decision, we will know that it’s on the agenda? Correct?
Mr. Young: Not the decision.
Ms. Field: You can vote in 30 days or hold until 60 days.
Mr. Young: Right. But she’s asking whether we’re going to publish it as a decision or publish it that it’s
on decision.
Ms. Mazza: The reason I’m asking is because I want to know because I want to be here when that
decision is rendered.
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Mr. Hall: Well, you can come both January and February, just to make sure.
Ms. Field: It’s not going to be published when you are going to decide.
Someone from the audience: Can I ask a question? How many are actually going to be voting? I’m a
little confused on that. You say somebody’s not going to be here.
Mr. Hall: The secretary will publish the minutes of this meeting. Every board member will get a copy of
those minutes then we can discuss them in a meeting per the minutes and make our decision.
Mr. Fregoe: The question is who will be allowed to vote. Say it comes up in January…
Ms. Field: Duane is not allowed to vote. Everyone else that’s here is allowed to vote.
Mr. Fregoe: Noelle is leaving at the end of this year, she’s out.
Mr. Young: That’s a question, whether she can vote or not. If she’s off the board at the time we take the
vote, my understanding is that she can’t vote.
Mr. Fregoe: Ok. What about Justin then? What’s Justin’s status?
Mr. Young: If Justin goes through the minutes, and is prepared to vote, he can vote.
Gentleman from the audience: Is that correct?
Ms. Field: Yes.
Gentleman from the audience: So all the board members that are on the board at the time, or that they’ve
resigned, gone into home health care, whatever it is and can’t be here, all the board members with the
exception of Duane, can vote.
Mr. Young: If they are prepared. I’ve abstained before, if I have not been in a meeting when the public
hearing gone forward and I feel unprepared.
Gentleman from the audience: So they can choose to vote so….
Ms. Field: Justin may choose to vote. He may choose to abstain.
Gentleman from the audience: So there’s five people sitting up there and…
Ms. Field: Mr. Feasel is also a board member. He would be permitted to vote, should he so choose.
Gentleman from the audience: That would be six. And then…
Ms. Field: It requires a four majority.
Gentleman from the audience: That’s my question, if there’s going to be six, there has to be four.
Mr. Hall: Always has to be four.
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Gentleman from the audience: And if there’s going to be five….
Mr. Hall: It still has to be four.
Gentleman from the audience: it still has to be four people. Four people have to approve.
Ms. Field: Correct.
Gentleman from the audience: And do they have to vote in a public meeting? They can discuss it
wherever they want, but they have to vote.
Mr. Young: We can discuss it amongst ourselves, not as a complete board. All of us couldn’t get together
in the back room and talk about it. I could talk to Noelle about it. I can talk to anybody else about it but
if we’re a full board, we cannot talk about it unless it’s a public forum. We also have to vote in a public
forum.
Gentleman from the audience: And the vote has to be in a public forum. And it will be at the January
meeting or the February meeting?
Mr. Young: Correct.
Mr. Fregoe: They can’t have a forum in the back room.
Gentleman from the audience: Right. I just want to understand.
Mr. Hall: We will do the right thing, eventually.
Gentleman from the audience: Thank you.
Mr. Hall motioned to close the meeting at 10:15 p.m. seconded by Mr. Young. All in favor.
Respectfully submitted,
Patrick Smith
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