-1Substantial Conversations
Martin L. Cox, Jr.
The vast majority of our churches are engaged in some form of ecumenical
ministry. Some have even moved to interreligious ministries with varying faith
communities. The nature of these gatherings vary; lectionary groups are quite popular,
shared food pantries, community ministries, ala ‘The Church has Left the Building’,
some are engaged in helping the homeless, especially during the winter months, others
are simply times to gather and share conversations about life in the parish. But there is
more that really needs to be done if we are ever going to take ecumenical conversation to
the next level.
If we really want to take on serious and dynamic ecumenical engagement then we
need to be examining who we are, both historically and theologically, and see how all of
this ‘conversation’ works together … moving to serious conversations.
Serious conversationing is the actual talking about who we are and listening to
what others sitting about that table have to say about themselves – who they are, not who
we have thought them to be. It’s being open to hearing what others have thought us to
be, and in truth it might be that we have been sending the wrong message of what it
means to be a United Methodist. It’s an invitation to be vulnerable and a willingness to
embrace those with whom we have less understanding than we thought. It is far too easy
to reduce people and faith communities to ‘labels’ and fail to see that in doing so we have
also labeled ourselves. Employing serious conversations might be understood as putting
away childish thinking and become mature in living with and participating in ministry
with people we thought that we knew.
-2Impediments to Serious Conversation
There are a few roadblocks to having such a conversation. One of those is the
assumption that we know what the other faith communities believe. We are in full
communion with the Evangelical Lutheran Churches, but do we really know what they
believe? What do they believe about holiness? What do they believe about worship?
What do they believe about the presence of Christ in the Eucharist? What is the role of
their bishop and how does that relate to the local congregation? What is their view of
scripture? What role does the laity play in their congregations?
We are soon to be in full fellowship with the Moravian Church. Are we aware
that the correct name of this faith community is Unitas Fratrum? What is their ecclesial
nature? What are ‘provinces’? What are the North and Southern Provinces? What do
they believe about salvation? Who can be ordained in their faith community? What was
it that made John Wesley turn away from them? Is that relevant today? What do they
believe about Holy Communion and baptism? These are just two faith communities in
which their clergy can assist in our churches and vice versa. What assumptions are we
making about these brothers and sisters?
We have ongoing conversations with the Episcopal Church and may one day be in
full communion with this faith community. Yet what do know about Episcopalians? Is
there any difference between the roles an Episcopal bishop plays when compared with a
United Methodist bishop or a Lutheran bishop? What are the requirements for Episcopal
ordination? What do they believe about the sacraments? What do they believe about
original sin? What might they believe about life after death? Does it make any
difference if their belief system doesn’t quite fit our belief system?
-3We err on the same point when we turn to other Protestant communions. Do we
really know what Presbyterians believe, or are we going on assumptions of what we
‘think’ they believe? Are they still waving the banner of Calvinism or has this moderated
over time? How does their church system operate? What is their view of predestination?
What is OUR view of predestination? Who can be saved? In some of our communities
we will find Baptists as part of our ministeriums. If one joins a Baptist church from a
congregation that baptizes infants, must that person be re-baptized? What requirements
are needed to be a member of a Baptist congregation? Who ordains in that faith
community and what are the requirements for ordination? Too often we assume that we
have the answers to the questions, when in truth we are simply demonstrating our
ignorance.
When it comes to the Roman Catholic churches we far too often show a lack of
knowledge that is frightening. And when one includes related faith communities such as
the Polish National Church we find ourselves adrift in a sea of total unawareness. Let’s
make it really confusing and try to make sense out of our Eastern Orthodox Churches,
Russian, Greek, Armenian, etc. Making assumptions is one of the biggest hurdles we
need to overcome if we are to have any serious conversations about ecumenical
engagements. What do these faith communities say about salvation, the sacraments and
worship? What role do saints play in their theology and what about the Virgin Mary?
There is another element that often stands in the way of having serious
conversations with our ecumenical partners: territorialism. If there is a real hindrance to
faithful ecumenical conversations it may be because we are so worried about ourselves.
We have scratched out our realms of ministry and we are threatened that others might
-4somehow invade our territory. We seem to think that if we are able to keep other faith
communities at a distance that we shall be able to do our ‘own thing” and claim the glory
and plaudits from our superiors and the community as a whole.
I know of a Presbyterian church that had the wonderful idea of starting a free
meal for the community on the 2nd and 4th Saturday of each month. The Presbyterian
pastor met monthly with the local clergy group but never mentioned this new ministry.
When it was launched everyone lauded this ministry. But what about the 1st and 3rd and
the occasional 5th Saturday? As it turned out, the local United Methodist Church picked
up the other three Saturdays making it possible that every Saturday the community had
available a free meal. How much more effective would it have been had the Presbyterian
Church worked with the other churches to engage in this ministry. Over time, the 5th
Saturday free meal was picked up by the local Lutheran Church thus involving three
churches in ministry to the same community. Are we being so territorial that we are
sacrificing ministry?
Hidden in our territorialism is the need to be seen as being an innovative church,
one leading the way in ministry. We don’t want to be seen as a follower. We don’t want
to show our ‘hand’ as if ministry is some sort of a card game where there are winners and
losers … and we want to be the winner. We want the Denman Award for great
achievements in evangelism or the Bishop’s Award for ecumenical engagement. My
recollection is that S Paul ran into this problem in the ancient city of Corinth. The
problem there was that people, believers, were fighting with each other by drawing
different ‘camps’ – “I belong to Paul, I belong to Apollus, I belong to Cephas, I belong
-5the Christ” (1Cor 1.12). Such actions were said to lead to the emptying of meaning of
Christ’s cross. Ecumenical ministry is not ‘one up-man-ship.’
This leads to the question of how we might go about creating an environment in
which serious conversations can take place, letting go of our assumptions, our ignorance
and our territorialism.
Suggestions to Serious Conversation
It might well be time that we move to intentional conversations about who we are,
what we believe, and how all of this works itself into a tapestry illustrating that the
church can truly be the church.
We might consider moving toward a more “faith and order” structure in our
clergy groups where the sharing of knowledge and tradition takes center stage. Permit
me to make the following suggestions, all of which have led some ecumenical
conversations to a deeper level of understanding who we are and what we can become.
1.
Baptism, Eucharist and Ministry. This document was ground breaking
when it first came out in the 1980’s. It’s a good place to start. Use it as
a study document, for which it was intended. One might have a
presenter highlight the sections and then have dialogue about what it is
saying to one’s own faith tradition.
2.
Confirmation: Here is an area that most churches that have infant
baptisms share common frustrations and hopes. I have even heard that
in some communities it has led to Protestant churches actually
combining to do confirmation together. When do we confirm? Who
confirms? Do all faith communities that baptize infants have some
-6form of confirmation? (The answer is “NO,” but which ones don’t and
why).
3.
The “four marks of the church”: The Nicene Creed references “one
holy catholic and apostolic church.” What do each one of the four
words mean to each faith community? What, to United Methodists,
does it mean to be catholic and apostolic? Are we?
4.
The Virgin Mary: In recent years there has been a vast amount of
writing coming from evangelicals on the subject of Mary. This is an
area most Protestants have avoided because we ‘believe we know’ what
the Roman Catholics and Easter Orthodox believe about Mary. But do
we? Have we relegated the Mother of our Lord to Christmas pageants
and then put her away until next Christmas?
5.
Worship: What makes worship, worship? What is distinctive about the
worship event in various faith communities? What does preaching look
and sound like in the various communities? Do all faith communities
even offer a sermon? What does congregational participation look like
in each others worship life?
Following this suggestion, of a more “faith and order” approach to local ministry
allows for some rather interesting interplay between members. In some ways we start to
learn how similar we are; yet we also find out where there are differing ideas, differing
theologies that challenge us in our comfortable settings. As it turns out, one of the
reasons that we don’t engage in ‘substantial conversations’ is because we are timid to
actually state that there are differences between those who sit around the same table as do
-7we. There is a tendency for some who think ecumenical concerns as best treated when
we just don’t confess that there are differences in how we think or do ministry. We tend
to forget that even St. Peter and St Paul did ministry in a different ways from the other.
The issue is not thinking that ignorance is bliss; rather that knowledge helps us appreciate
each other all the more.
An additional benefit to ‘substantial conversation’ is that we can start to learn
more about who we are. There is a belief, perpetrated by those in church leadership
positions, that we know all there is to know about ourselves. We may not believe that,
but we surely do seem to demonstrate it in the way we talk and the way we lead. We are
quick to rattle of the ‘Quadrilateral’ when speaking about how we live our lives.
Scripture, tradition, reason and experience are banded about more than ever these days,
and will be used like a loop on a radio station when General Conference convenes. I
wonder how many of us know just what the word “tradition” means in United Methodist
circles. The Roman Catholic Church also argues for “tradition” in their faith journey.
The same word is used in both faith communities, but I wonder if they are defined in the
same way.
A conversation about worship in various faith communities might prove an
interesting talk to have. What role does scripture play in our worship, and what about the
use of music, not simply hymns/praise choruses. How is laity involved in worship?
What does our order of worship tell us about ourselves? Do we wear special worship
garments? If not, why not? If so, why do we? Let’s not be so arrogant to believe that we
know the answers to these questions before we even ask them.
-8One of the suggestions I always make to young people who are going off to
college is to make sure that if it possible to take a year abroad at a foreign university if
they can do so. To engage people of another culture helps us understand both those who
call home the foreign country and help us to better understand who the American student
is and the culture that she calls her own. We learn best when we engage both rationally
and empirically. That is what ‘substantial conversations’ is all about.
We do not need to abandon the various social ministries that we have established
over the course of time, but we might want to take this to a deeper level. We approach
such conversations with a humble heart and an open mind. Are we willing to take such a
risk?