Business For Superheroes Podcast Transcription:
Episode Twelve - ​
Do You Have a Growth Mindset or a
Fixed Mindset?
*In an industry stuffed with marketing bullshit, empty
promises and shiny-suited liars, one woman’s had enough. She
knows what it’s like to have the wrong clients, no money and
no time for fun, but she also knows how to fix it, and, on the
Business For Superheroes show, she promises to tell the down and dirty truth
about business, sales and running away with the circus! Here’s your host:
Vicky Fraser…*
Vicky​
: Hello and welcome to the Business For Superheroes podcast, with me
Vicky Fraser and…
Joe​
: Joe. Hello!
Vicky​
: Hi. You seemed surprised even though we’ve been sitting here waiting
to start the podcast?
Joe​
: Well every other week you say my name and then I say hello!
Vicky​
: Oh sorry.
Joe​
: This week you just stopped, that’s going to confuse the regular listeners.
Vicky​
: You’re in a fixed mindset Joe.
Joe​
: I am in a fixed mindset, I’ve got my expectations.
Vicky​
: You have.
Joe​
: You sprung one on me.
Vicky​
: I did. So this week I’m drinking a very nice white wine from Naked
Wines, from South Africa - Kruger family wines - it’s very nice. And what are
you drinking?
Joe​
: I’ve got a Birra Moretti, which is a premium lager imported from Italy.
Vicky​
: it’s very nice Moretti, I like a Moretti.
Joe​
: I have the biggest beer bottle in the world.
Vicky​
: It is massive. Mahoosive. So I’ve just started on the supping because I’ve
been teaching my pole class and Joe has been drinking beer in the shower.
Joe​
: that’s not strictly true, I was drinking beer in the bathroom and then i got
in the shower.
Vicky​
: Cool. Well this week we are going to be talking about mindset, which I
think is actually pretty apposite - that’s a good word - because I was
interviews this morning Joe for another podcast and it was really exciting
because it’s the first time I’ve ever been interviewed for a podcast, or I think
for anything actually.
Joe​
: Is that because you is well famous?
Vicky​
: Is it because I is well famous? No, I is not well famous. But it was Terry
and Drew Edwards who are awesome and they do the Renegade Recruiter
podcasts, so you guys should check that out because they’re ace. They
interviewed me and it was really exciting and I’m really looking forward to it
because I actually felt really good about how I came across, and that’s quite
rare. Normally I’m like, “Oh my god I’m so shit”. I am aren’t I?
Joe​
: You’re not normally shit, no.
Vicky​
: No but that’s how I think about myself quite often. Not always.
Sometimes I’m like, “Woo hoo, I’m ace”. Anyway, I was interviewed and it was
really cool, I really enjoyed it. One of the topics that we kind of got onto was,
indirectly, mindset. They asked me what challenges I’d overcome and all that
kind of stuff and I think probably the biggest challenge I’ve overcome in the
last couple of years, in the last few years, is my own tendency to shut myself
up. And also be less of a shit bag!
Joe​
: Yeah, you’re a terrible shit bag.
Vicky​
: I was a terrible shit bag, though, that’s the thing. When I was working at
the Job From Hell ™ (It’s not trademarked) it was a horrible place to work and
the guy who owned the place was awful, but
I didn’t half make my own
life difficult. Looking back I just behaved like a dick and I don’t really know
why people are still friends with me. I was always like, “Oh I’m really miserable
because this happened and this person did this” and that’s kind of a shit way to
be.
Joe​
: It’s passive, just reacting to stuff.
Vicky​
: Yeah and I don’t for a second-- none of this podcast, by the way is for a
second saying that bad things don’t happen and-- none of this is about victim
blaming at all because that can kiss my ass. You don’t blame the victim
because that’s like saying, “You were wearing a short skirt so you were asking
for it”. Bollocks to that. You can’t control quite a lot of the stuff that happens to
you but you can control how you deal with it. I think that’s really important.
You might be a victim in some way but if you stay a victim then that’s your
choice. Does that make sense? How you deal with stuff is entirely up to you.
Joe​
: That’s certainly true. I’m like goldfish in here, I don’t really react to much at
all.
Vicky​
; It’s true you know, he doesn’t.
[Laughter]
Joe​
: It’s a skill I’ve had from my Catholic upbringing, I can pretty much ignore
any nonsense.
Vicky​
: He does, he ignores my nonsense all the time, which is probably for the
best really. I’m listening to this audiobook at the moment, I listen to
audiobooks when I’m driving around and I thoroughly recommend that you
do the same, dear listener, because it’s ace because you take in a lot. Then if it’s
a good book I’ll read it. Like read it read it, rather than listen to it read it. With
the actual paper or the Kindle-ton.
[Laughter]
Joe​
: Other e-readers are available.
Vicky​
: They are. But I’m listening to MindSet by Carol Dwek at the moment,
and Dwek’s a great name. She’s a psychologist and I first encountered her in
another book that I was reading and I’m now looking at the ceiling trying to
search my memory but i can’t remember what it was. It’ll come back to me.
But she talks about mindsets, whether you have a growth mindset or a fixed
mindset. I totally used to have a fixed mindset, totally, because I was all about
the, “Oh I’m not very good at that” and that was it. Actually do you know what,
I don’t think that’s entirely true because I never avoided difficult tasks as a
child. If you ask my mum about jigsaw puzzles she’ll be like, “Oh you used to
turn them upside down and do them with the blank side up because it was too
easy for you to do them the easy side round”. That actually does show a
growth mindset and that’s all down to having awesome parents I think
because they were always encouraging, They were never like, “Oh you’re so
pretty and oh you’re so clever”, it was all about, “You’ve worked really hard”.
That’s the difference. It’s not about being clever, it’s about working hard. That’s
what Carol Dwek is all about. Babies come into the world with a growth
mindset, they want to learn, children want to learn and then it gets bashed out
of them. It doesn't get bashed out of everybody obviously.
Joe​
: Don’t kick the baby.
Vicky​
: Don’t kick the baby, that would be really bad. But if you’re around
children you have a massive role in the kind of mindset they’re going to have.
You will probably recognise ehre people in a fixed mindset, it’s people who
say, “I can’t do that”, “This is really difficult”>
Joe​
: Draining isn’t it. I can think of a couple of characters in my world who it’s
just like pushing mud uphill to get them to actually get on board with
something and move forward. Painful.
Vicky​
: It is painful and it’s frustrating as well. It’s not just frustrating because
you’re trying to get things done, it’s frustrating because you can see the ability
is there or the ability would be there for the people to really good stuff, if only
they would change their mindset. You get people thinking that they’re this
fixed person and that’s not the case at all because you can change yourself
quite radically. I really object to - because you hear people say, “Oh so and so
will never change” and “People never change”, and I’m sorry but that’s aboslute
bukllshit and it winds me up because that basically means that if you make a
mistake, you are your mistake for your entire life. And that’s nonsense. We are
not our mistakes. We are able to learn and grow and change. I’m really glad I
don't have a fixed mindset anymore, I briefly did a few years ago I think. I don’t
anymore.
Joe​
: That’s a good thing. Open to all of the hard work and the opportunities out
there.
Vicky​
: And it’s not all about being endlessly cheerful about it either because I
was talking-- I’m not one of those people who say, “Oh Mondays are
awesome, yay go Mondays!” Because frankly I think Mondays suck.
Joe​
: Ah, my friend Richard actually said he noticed you on Facebook saying, “
Oh, Monday” and he was like, “oh my god if Vicky doesn’t like Mondays we’re
all doomed!”
Vicky​
: Oh really?! Is that what he said?
Joe​
: Yeah he said you’re supposed to be the shining example of everything’s
brilliant.
Vicky​
: But you see that’s the thing and that’s really funny. Richard if you’re
listening I’m going to have to work on my whole not being cheerful all the
time, clearly, because.
Joe​
: Scowl at Richard.
Vicky​
: I will scowl at you next time I see you. Apparently he listens to this
which is really cool.
Joe​
: It’s cool, he’s one of my climbing buddies.
Vicky​
: He’s lovely.
Joe​
: He is lovely, he’s ferociously strong and makes me feel bad.
Vicky​
: Well that’s it, he shouldn’t make you feel bad he should make you-Joe​
: Inspired? No?
Vicky​
: Well it’s a bit wank but it’s true. Rather than feeling diminished by his
climbing ability - and this is another thing that Carol Dwerk was going on
about, and she told a little story-- I know I’m doing, Joe’s doing veering tangent
things but it is relevant, I promise. She told a story about-- He’s now laughing
at me, you can’t hear it.
Joe​
: Sorry, I’ll chuckle louder.
[Laughter]
Vicky​
: But it’s true.
Joe​
: Can you imagine what the hand signal for, “You’re going off on multiple
tangents” looks like?
Vicky​
: It looks like aeroplanes that are crashing. Now you’ve derailed the
tangent. Can you derail a tangent? Anyway.
Joe​
: Meanwhile back at the ranch… Billy’s down a well! Sorry.That’s what the
dog used to-Vicky​
: Goldfish in my head now, no idea what’s going on. Bubbles. No.
Joe​
: Anyhoo, Richard listens to the podcast and he’s very good and inspires me
to be a better climber. He said that he listens to us when he’s in the car and he
said that actually - he runs a small business delivering cleaning supplies and
things for businesses, and he does a very good job. He’s all about the personal
service. If you need any cleaning supplies give us a shout and we’ll hook you
up. Anyhoo he-Vicky​
: Stop saying anyhoo.
Joe​
: I know I’ve said it multiple times now, bad isn’t it? Jeepers. And he says he
listens to the podcast and he’s making changes! He’s doing stuff!
Vicky​
: And that’s so fucking exciting!
Joe​
: Awesome!
Vicky​
: I’m so, so, so fucking excited about that because I don’t want people to
just listen to this and laugh, I mean I do want you to laugh because it’s very
gratifying to be told that we’re funny but what I really want you to do is make
changes in your business and your life because you’ve listened to something
and thought, “How can I put this into practice in my business?” That's
awesome, it really is and that - at the risk of sounding like a wanky twat - is
why I do this stuff. No it’s true, you’re laughing at me but it’s true. Yeah my
business is thriving and it’s nice to have plenty of cash but plenty of cash isn’t
enough to keep you doing something that frankly sometimes sucks donkey
balls. I don’t love my business 100% of the time, nobody does and if they say
they do then they’re lying, I think. If I didn’t hear things like that every now and
then.
Joe​
: Those are the best bits aren’t they, when you have a really nice email from
someone or a comment from somewhere saying, “I’m doing this and it’s
working”.
Vicky​
: Totally and they totally make up for the odd email that I get that says
fuck off and die and that is an email that I’ve received in the past by the way!
Which is hilarious. I should totally read out another email, I might do that in
the next podcast. You can read out that awful email from that awful woman.
Joe​
: The passive aggressive one?
Vicky​
: Oh god, it was bad. Anyway I’m going off on a tangent. The whole fixed
mindset thing is really cool because if you feel diminished by somebody else’s
achievement then that says that you’ve got a fixed mindset about stuff like that
and that was why I was about concerned about your, “He makes me feel bad”.
Joe​
: I’m sorry.
Vicky​
: Bad husband. But the story that I was going to tell, that I’ve now
remembered, is Carol Dwek - this is the author of the book that I’ve been
reading.
Joe​
: The author of the book about mindset.
[Laughter]
Vicky​
: She was away with her husband fishing, they were on this fishing trip
and it was a group thing, which sounds hideous to me but there were lots of
strangers on this group fishing trip. The instructor had kind of given them
instructions on how to do fly fishing, but hadn’t really given them that much to
go on. Apparently fly fishing is different, if you’re fishing for rainbow trout you
have to sing to them or some shit, I don’t know. When you hook them you’re
not supposed to yank them - I don’t like fishing, it’s mean. Anyway, she caught
a fish but none of the other people on the boat caught a fish, and bear in mind
that most of the other people in the boat were men - and you can see where
I’m going with this can’t you?
In the evening when they were at the bar she was having a great time with her
husband who was like, “Oh it was really exciting when you caught that fish,
that was amazing. I love spending time with you because cool things happen
around you and it’s exciting”. Then a couple of the guy who were on the boat
came up and were like, “Oh dude, I’m really sorry. You must feel awful.” And
her husband’s like, “What? Why?” And they were like, “Well, you know, you
wife got the fish”. That’s a really good example of a fixed mindset. They felt
diminished by the fact that she’d caught a fish and therefore assumed that her
husband also felt diminished. Do you ever feel diminished by me?
Joe​
: No, not at all.
Vicky​
: No I don't think so because you’re cool.
Joe​
: I’m delighted by what you’re doing. I thought you were nuts when you
started.
Vicky​
: Aww but you were-- He was so supportive, I would never have been
able to do it without you. We’re going mushy now we should stop that. It’s
true, he could’ve been really unsupportive because I’ve heard of people’s
businesses and relationships falling apart because their partner hasn’t been
supportive. That sucks arse. Back to mindset, this is all to do with mindset
really because it’s all about allowing people to make mistakes and learn from
them and do better. That’s something else that I’d like to talk a bit about as well
because I think we’re brought up in this culture where making mistakes is not
acceptable. Do you know what I mean? I know you work with a guy who’s
very-- he doesn’t allow himself to do stuff does he, in case he gets it wrong.
Joe​
: Yeah he won’t take any risks either professionally, personally or anything
because it might not work.
Vicky​
: I think that’s really sad because this isn’t about being at the top of your
game, conquering the World etc. because big, lofty goals aren’t for everybody
and that’s fine. But it is about making the most of your potential, I think.
Joe​
: You have to develop, you have to move forward, you have to pick a
direction and make effort, surely?
Vicky​
: Exactly and hard work will get you on the way you want to go. Yes
there’s a certain amount of -- I’m not naive enough to think that my white,
middle class upbringing hasn’t given me a lot of advantages, because it damn
well has, but when I see other people who have a white, middle class
upbringing complaining about their lot in life that really pisses me off. They’ve
had the same opportunities that I have and yet they’ve done nothing with
them. I see people every day, by the way, doing nothing with their
opportunities and it’s frustrating because then you see people from the other
side of the world or with really shitty backgrounds who’ve had just the most
awful lives and I know of somebody actually, a friend of a friend, a lady called
Vickie Shanks - and you should look up her book, I think it’s called Unraveled,
I’ve just bought it on my Kindle I;’m going to read it. But you read about her life
and if you didn’t know it was true you wouldn’t believe it. She’s got six kids
and her husband killed himself but that’s not even the worst of it. When you
get into her story it’s just incredible, and this is a woman who spoke at a TEDx
conference a few months ago and she’s awesome and her kids are awesome.
That’s Lorrie and--
Joe​
: We’re stuck in a loop, staring at each other wondering what comes next.
Vicky has been deactivated. She’s broken. Hang on folks, normal service will
resume. Nope, she’s gone. Shall we edit that bit out?
[Laughter]
Vicky​
: Oh, I don’t care if I look like a dick. Look up Vickie Shanks’ book
because that family is incredible and the stuff they’ve been through to get to
where they are now - the girls run their own business and the mum is doing
this amazing stuff working with kids with Autism, and Cerebral Palsy as well god they’ve had a tough fucking hand out to them. The point is life isn’t fair but
you take what you’re given and you get on with it.I think you have almost a
duty to yourself to make the most of the opportunities you’re given. I think it’s
very sad when people don’t because people are capable of far more than they
think they are.
Joe​
: Sure, I agree with that.
Vicky​
: We all are. Me included, I’m a right dick when it comes to-- [Laughs]
Joe​
: When are you a right dick when it comes to it?
Vicky​
: Well, when it comes to holding myself back. This is one of my favourite
quotes, it’s from Rob Lowe the actor, of the West Wing and the Brat Pack
movies etc. I love Rob Lowe, he’s ace. He’s a wise fellow because he once said,
“Never compare your insides to somebody else’s outsides”. Did we talk about
this a couple of weeks ago as well?
Joe​
: I think this is in a previous cast.
Vicky​
: Well I think it’s worth saying again. Say it twice. Because it’s true, we
spend a lot of time comparing ourselves to other people and then we use it as
an excuse to not try harder. If that person is doing so much better than me,
they’re better than me and what can I do? Which is arse really.
Joe​
: Pick a direction and try. Develop, grow, learn stuff! Keep moving! Swim
faster!
Vicky​
: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming. P. Sherman, 42 Wallaby
Road, Sydney.
[Laughter]
Joe​
: Such a nerd.
Vicky​
: That’s one of my favourite films. This has been a slightly rambly podcast
because I only realised today that my podcast recording was due to go to the
Podfly guys - Hi Podfly guys!
Joe​
: Hello Podfly guys!
Vicky​
: Who do an amazing job. And I hadn’t realised that it was Wednesday,
basically because I’ve been running around like a blue-arsed fly all week. And
being interview on a podcast today-Joe​
: Can we not have just stolen those guys’ podcast and reissued that?
Vicky​
: No because it’s not out yet.
Joe​
: Selfish.
Vicky​
: I know. I might ask them if I can put it -- Well they will give it to me to
share. Dear listener, I will let you know when that podcast is ready to share
because it’s really cool, I really enjoyed doing it. And there’s lots of really useful
stuff in there, some about mindset, some about me being a dick and some of it
about service training and some of it about what I do for my clients and my
Inner Circle guys etc. I love my Inner Circle guys, they’re ace. They’re all doing
really cool stuff as well because i keep seeing emails pinging through about
the 12-week year goals, putting prices up - Go Lynn! - and it makes me happy
to see that people are pushing the envelope a little bit. Because this stuff is
really scary and I think sometimes that I can make it seem a little bit like, “Oh
you just do this and it’s fine”.
Joe​
: Put your prices up and everything will be cool.
Vicky​
: Yeah, I kind of forget that I didn’t do it all at once, I did it in increments
and I still don’t charge enough for some stuff because whenever somebody
says yes immediately, you know you haven’t charged enough. Or you know
they would have been willing to pay more. |That’s a topic for another day, we’ll
talk about it a different time. But that’s a mindset thing as well - how much you
value yourself.
Joe​
: I remember the early days where you put an action plan together, a
proposal together for somebody and you were like, “Can I really charge them
for this? Is this fair?”
Vicky​
: Can I really charge £300 for an article?
[Laughter]
Joe​
: It’s like, yes, yes you can.
Vicky​
: And I would, I’d ask you for permission wouldn’t I?
Joe​
: Yes, it was crazy. “How long is it going to take you?”, “Couple of days” - it’s
like yes, you can charge £300 quid!
Vicky​
: Which is ludicrous because my day rate is considerably more than that.
Conshiderably!
Joe​
: Things have moved on.
Vicky​
: Things have moved on and that’s the point, it’s ok to go through those
stages. I think actually my mentor Jon would say, “Why go through those
stages? Just do it now” and that works for him because he is basically, he’s
awesome and I love him to bits but he’s an obnoxious git who just doesn’t give
a shit about what anybody thinks about him.
Joe​
: He poked me in the eye last time I saw him. There was some drunken
wrestling, I don’t really understand what happened.
Vicky​
: There’s also a photograph of what looks like Jon proposing to you.
Joe​
: I think he was, I don’t know why.
Vicky​
: We’ve drifted somewhat away from the podcast topic now. But I think I
do sometimes forget that you go through these stages, because you forget the
pain. It’s like when I broke my leg, I can’t remember how much it hurt but I
know it really hurt a lot. You forget that kind of pain and it’s the same in
business as well. You don’t forget the pain of being broke and angry but you
do forget the kind of uncomfortable feeling you get when you put your prices
up incrementally. I think I sometimes get a bit gung-ho and I’m like, “Just put
your prices up to blah blah blah” -Joe​
: But it’s not that easy for some people, because of their mindset.
Vicky​
: well no, not even because of their mindset because it’s not that they’ve
got a fixed mindset because they people I’ve been talking to and coaching in
my Inner Circle definitely don’t have a fixed mindset, they wouldn't be in my
Inner Circle if they did. They want to change and grow but there is a certain
level of comfort, you have to be comfortable with yourself because if you’re
not comfortable with the price you’re charging then you’re probably not going
to get it; you’re not going to sound confident enough. It’s absolutely fine to
work up to this stuff, I’ve worked up to it, and I’m still not there. You don’t find
the edge of the bubble for, I don’t know when.
Joe​
: Maybe never.
Vicky​
: Maybe never. So there you go. We’re 22 minutes in, I’ve rambled quite a
lot.
Joe​
: It has been fairly tangential.
Vicky​
: I was making excuses earlier about having a really busy day, forgetting
it was podcast day and that’s why it’s a bit rambly because I’m normally very
organised. I normally have notes don’t I?
Joe​
: There’s normally some notes. I’m normally sitting here with a glass of
wine wondering what on earth I’m doing but you normally have some notes.
Vicky​
: I do normally have some notes, so I hope that you’ve enjoyed this , I’m
sorry about the corpsing in the middle.
Joe​
: Maybe we should shorten that gap down a little bit?
Vicky​
: No because otherwise I’m presenting a face that;s not real. A couple of
weeks ago we did have to cut a big gap out where the cats had a massive fight.
There hasn’t been any cat fighting this time, although Whisky looks like she’s
up to no good. Also we’ve got a pizza to eat and I’m starving because right now
it’s 22:05.
Joe​
: That is well past the end of the working day.
Vicky​
: So we’re going to put a pizza in and we’re going to put Buster Keaton
on, because Buster Keaton rocks, if you’ve never seen a Buster Keaton film just
sort yourself out.
[Laughter]
Vicky​
: As per usual thanks ever so much for listening, really appreciate it.
Richard, hi! Thank you for listening, I’m really, really chuffed that you’re
enjoying it and doing stuff. That’s made my day, Joe coming home and telling
me that. If you are enjoying the podcast please go to iTunes and leave us a
review, the more reviews we get and he more ratings we get, the higher up the
rankings we go and I find that very exciting. You can leave a review on Stitcher
radio as well. If you need instructions on how to do that just drop me an email:
[email protected]​
and I will let you know how to do it.
Joe​
: If you’d like to join the Inner Circle or any of that stuff, feel free.
Vicky​
: Yeah: ​
http://www.businessforsuperheroes.com/inner-circle/​
and if
you want to buy my book it’s just-Joe​
:​
http://www.businessforsuperheroes.com/
Vicky​
: Thanks Joe. It’s definitely pizza o’clock. Signing off. We’ll see you next
week, take care, be relentless, do.
Joe​
: Do stuff, that’s key. Pick a direction, do stuff.
Vicky​
: Be happy! Bye!
Joe​
: Bye!
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