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Amazing Leadership Brands is a series of interviews with the leaders behind great brands. It may
come as no surprise that the attributes found in strong brands are often derived from the values and
personalities of the visionaries who lead them. Christine Tieri, President and Certified Brand Strategist
of Idea Agency, and author of the blog BrandStanza.com, sat down with Sandy Dunn, General
Manager, DCU Center to learn more about the woman behind the brand.
Amazing leadership brands:
Sandy Dunn, DCU Center
By: Christine Tieri
I’m always impressed by the grandeur of the DCU Center and walking into the GM’s corner office, flooded with light
and the view of the bustling Worcester streets set the perfect stage for the illuminating interview in front of me.
There isn’t an easier person to talk to than Sandy Dunn, General Manager of Worcester’s DCU Center. Her sincerity
and quick laugh are complemented by a wealth of anecdotes and fun stories. Her approachability is reflected in
one of the friendliest staffs in the industry as evidenced by the repeat business at the DCU Center which significantly
outpaces industry standards. In fact, clients rave about the attention and service they receive. Sandy operates at fast
pace, making rapid-fire decisions on a daily basis. Her career in the public facility industry has flourished for decades
because she thrives with change and embraces new challenges each day.
Industry-wide, the DCU Center is known as a “complex” because it hosts both arena events and conventions. Sandy
explained that these are two very different types of businesses. Arena events move quickly and require a fast-paced,
responsive staff. By contrast, conventions are planned 12 to 24 months in advance, and require the staff to plan far in
advance. The DCU Center GM has to be able to operate in either world. Sandy is that person. Her ability to make rapidfire decisions is equally complemented by her ability to plan for the long-term.
Sandy’s approachability is not limited to casual conversation. She encourages back and forth discussion in decision
making. She prides herself on her open-mindedness and likes when people push back and challenge her ideas. “I don’t
have any problem changing my decisions,” says Sandy, “as long as it is based on us recognizing what we need to do to
move forward successfully.” Her staff is empowered when they feel safe to voice opposing views. It allows them to be
part of the decision process as well as fully understand the final decision.
I noted the dynamic connection between a convention center and the community that surrounds it. No one knows this
better than Sandy, who has made it her purpose to invest in and become a part of the fabric of the community. Again,
I realized the dual requirement for Sandy to quickly make smart decisions in the pressure-packed days and hours
leading up to events while making wise strategic decisions that affect the long-term perspective of the community.
When I asked Sandy what brand she would be, she chose Disney. Interestingly, Disney registers with Sandy more for
their ability to adapt and change over time than even for their approachability, friendliness, and ability to entertain. The
brand fits her perfectly.
The full transcript of my interview with Sandy follows.
ideaagency.biz
“I’ll put out a debatable
remark to encourage the
conversation. I want people
to give their feedback
based on what they believe
will solve the problem.”
– Sandy Dunn
Amazing leadership brands: Sandy Dunn, DCU Center (Full Transcript)
Christine:I want to talk about your personal brand. It might not be something
you think about too much, but I believe it’s important for every leader.
Chris:There have been huge changes around here, it must keep you on
your toes.
Sandy:
Sandy:It certainly does. Every year there is something different. Now City
Square is coming online, and most importantly to us, AC Marriott is
going to create another major change. Even the way people approach
the building changes. We found, since this garage was built, the main
path to the arena really is coming from the north. Once AC Marriott
gets building the new parking garage over there, that’s going to
change. It changes the way that we operate the building, because
that’s what we do. How’s the crowd approaching? How are they
directed?
First, if it’s okay, I want to know what you think my brand is?
Christine:Sure. Well, I definitely know that you have a big personality here.
Everybody knows you, so that’s an element of your brand. People in
the region know who you are. You’ve been here a long time, left for
a while, and then eventually came back, correct?
Sandy:Good research. In ‘83 I originally came here. I started as the
receptionist at this facility, and then I went up through the ranks, as
secretary to the GM, and so on. In 1990, I transferred to Niagara Falls
as GM at the Niagara Falls Arena and Convention Center, which was
an SMG building, so I stayed with the company. I was here for seven
years the first time. I was in New York for four years and transferred
back, so that would have been ‘94. And I’ve been here as GM since
then.
Chris:
In your time as GM, this place has grown tremendously.
Sandy:Yes. A people say to me, “Wow, you’ve been doing this job for a
long time,” but the industry changes. Some events change and the
people we deal with change. But also, the environment has changed
immensely. When I came back, the city had just broken ground on
the convention center, so that was developing our abilities to work
with a whole new industry, a whole marketplace. There had to be
reorganizing and restaffing for the convention industry, which is
distinctly different than the arena industry.
Chris:I think people from the outside don’t discern the difference. It’s just one
big huge building, but to you it’s two different business models.
Sandy:They are very different. We have a trade organization that’s manages
public assembly facilities, so yes, it’s a public assembly facility, but
a theater or a stadium or an arena, are very different things with
different players in each industry. And then, since this building opened,
almost every block has changed. Saint Vincent’s has come on, the
garage was built, the hotel was built, the courthouse was built, and
Mezcal moved in, just to name a few.
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And then this year brings us the new hockey team.
Chris:
I know. That’s exciting.
Sandy:It is. With this particular ownership, it’s much more integrated into
the community and they will be opening restaurant soon. adjacent
to us. And to that point, city has dedicated another 25 million for
improvements, so we’ve done some initial meetings with users and
stakeholders—guided by the architect—and the conversation is all
about how we get opened up to the west. How do we engage Main
Street? Because these buildings now are really about lease-making,
being in the city, entertainment districts next to them, and we’re so
oriented to this major thoroughfare in the city that you don’t get this
pedestrian sense. We’re trying to get engaged on Main St. so that we
can take advantage of that opportunity.
Chris:To switch gears, what is the most exciting thing about coming to work
every day? This is a pretty exciting industry.
Sandy:It is! But what I really love is the change. What’s the excitement of the
day? Will there be a new product out, a new act hitting the stage?
Again, the arena and convention center industries are very different.
The arena is so fast-paced we have to solve problems on our feet.
Chris:Do you feel like you’re more suited to that sort of pace than sitting and
contemplating for an extended period of time about a problem?
Sandy:Very. That’s the difference in the type of staffs in an arena and a
convention center. An arena is very reactive. Not a lot of long-term
planning. We might find out that we’ll book an event eight weeks from
now. We’ll get a call a week before the event and they’ll tell us what
they need, to the frustration of a lot of that staff. And a lot of people
are involved, and it’s a lot of product involved.
A convention center event is probably looking at least a year out if
not two. They have a lot of meetings to talk about the details, so that
requires a different style of person who is more methodical and more
organized.
Chris:
Do you have two different support staffs?
Sandy:We are what the industry calls a complex. It’s rare to have staff that
crosses over in a complex. We probably have more staff crossover
than normal. Normally you’re a convention center person or you’re an
arena person, but all my executive staff crosses over, like Jim Mullen in
operations. But then as you go down into the people that are directly
dealing with either the clients or patrons, typically they’re on one side
or the other.
Chris:Okay. I guess the convention center people who are bringing
conventions here are used to talking to a certain type of person,
versus the arena people, and have different expectations.
Sandy:Exactly. 100%. A convention is slower. It’s more detailed. It requires
more explanations and more educating. Oftentimes the individuals
that are promoting or producing at the convention center have never
done it before. They are looking to us to provide the expertise, whereas
in the arena it would be rare that we would ever have somebody
who’s not done it before, at least in a smaller venue. That almost
never happens. Someone has at least some experience in doing
events before, so that conversation can go really fast.
Chris:What do you think are three attributes that set you apart, whether you
want to speak to the complex or the arena or the convention center,
from your competition?
Sandy:I think the attribute that sets us apart, bar none, is the friendliness of
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the staff. That’s probably not a broad enough term to use, but we get
terrific repeat business. I think 70% is what I heard recently, and that’s
rare in our industry. Many of our events that don’t repeat annually are
on a cycle so they come back in three years. We receive incredible
compliments on our staff.
Chris:
That’s great, and that’s a testament to you as well.
Sandy:It’s a reflection of all my executive staff, really. I think if people feel
empowered on the front line and feel like they can work with the
individuals, it’s builds a good reputation.
Chris:You mentioned a friendly approach. You are super friendly and
accessible, and I think that trickles down.
Sandy:
Yes. Almost to a fault. I’m very approachable.
Chris:
I’m sure you hear it, “There’s Sandy again, down in the trenches,” right?
Sandy:Ironically, I would say that my direct report staff, my directors, might
actually prefer me to be less approachable by the front-line staff, but
I pride myself on that. I’m also proud that we welcome all walks of life,
both in who works here but also in the type of clients that we have. I
think we’re really, really open.
We do get clients that come in and say they couldn’t even get in a
meeting somewhere else. That’s another separating factor, we’re
highly responsive. If somebody calls us, they definitely get a return
call within 24-hours. They get a meeting within 48-hours. In fact, we
get drop-ins all the time. We always have someone take the drop-in
to the building to talk them through what an event actually takes.
We get a lot of what we affectionately call “wannabes.” Wannabes are
people who have never done an event before and have a dream to
do an awesome event. The percentage of those actually happening
is very low. Probably 5% actually turn into events, but we take those
meetings as far as those individuals want to go. We’ll literally sit in
their chair and try to write a budget for them so that they understand
what this is really going to take.
A good example of that, and a client who I loved that ultimately didn’t
succeed, was the New England Surge, an indoor football team. Roy
Lucas was his name. He was a Worcester guy who just thought it would
be great for the youth. I think he did two years, and he would be in
here all the time just, “What do you think I should do? What do you
recommend?”
So we’re very open and welcoming to whoever comes in. That
would be the second attribute, which I guess is kind of similar to the
friendliness of staff.
Chris:I think it has a slightly different connotation, yes you’re friendly and
approachable from the top down, but there’s an education aspect to
it as well —the willingness to share, to help others figure out how to
make it work.
Sandy:And that quick responsiveness. We oftentimes would get somebody
that says that they called and called another venue for months, and
when they get us so quickly and they come in and ask, “What was
wrong with that other venue that I was calling?” Well I can’t really
answer you that, but this is the way we do business.
Another attribute is the expertise of the staff. SMG is a private
management firm. We operate 250 venues worldwide, and I think
people identify myself, Jim Mullen, and my event managers, as, “Oh,
those people who work at the DCU Center,” but we really work for this
Philadelphia company, SMG. It provides us access to a crazy amount
of training and resources, as well as the resource of our peers. When
my operations person has an operations question, he reaches out
to 250 other operations directors, so that resource of expertise is
unparalleled.
Chris:It sounds like that company is great at educating, providing resources
and being available.
Sandy:Their emphasis is peer-to-peer. They work very hard to help each
of us. For instance, I do a biweekly booking call with all the other
northeast GMs, where we share what’s in our books and what we’re
working on. The marketing departments and operational departments
each have their own monthly call. It keeps all those departments on
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the cutting edge, because maybe it hasn’t happened here yet, but
there is something happening somewhere to learn from. Perhaps
there is some natural disaster like flooding, in a region. We are on
the phone sharing ideas and learning how to deal with it. So each
discipline is hearing and learning from their peers.
Chris:That’s great, do you feel that trickles down here too? Do you find a lot
of collaboration amongst your people, peer-to-peer?
Sandy:I would like to see more, as every “mom” would. This building has a
wonderful historical reputation of producing general managers. There
have been a lot of people at the director level here who moved on to
become a general manager somewhere else. The reason for that is
the collaboration between the directors. They can’t help but qualify
themselves for more, because it’s a busy building. It’s hands-on here
and the staff is here for all the major events. There is a lot of crosstraining that happens naturally here. Marketing is learning operations,
operations is interfacing with marketing, and I think that by default you
end up learning the other disciplines of the building, because of how
we operate.
If you get into a big building like the Garden, marketing is doing
marketing, operations is doing operations, and so on.
Chris:
You’re in your silo.
Sandy:Yeah. In a big venue, marketing is never talking to operations about
anything, except maybe taping a memo and saying, “Open this
door at this time.” But they’re never being really exposed to setting
up chairs, taking tickets, or dealing with a problem patron, whereas
marketing here is dealing with that on a regular basis.
Chris:
They touch a lot of different things, right?
Sandy:Yes, and then we do managers on duty, so there’s always a manager
here that’s kind of like the person in charge. So that’s good training.
Chris:
You’re accountable, then, to whatever’s happening.
Would you say, from a personality standpoint yourself, do you share
some of the attributes you’ve just described? Obviously the expertise.
You’ve had a lot of experience, but the responsiveness—we talked
about you being friendly—do you feel like that’s a good reflection of
who you are?
Sandy:Yeah. I also think that in the greater brand of me, I think people
would say that I speak my mind. I’m not shy to put something out
there. However, I think maybe there’s a little bit of a misconception
that sometimes I’m not putting out what I really believe. But I’m putting
stuff out there because I’m seeking more discussion, or I’m seeking
someone to come back and let me know that they really are dug in,
that they feel strongly a certain way. I’ll put out a debatable remark
to encourage conversation.
Chris:
You’re really looking for that interaction or to “Prove me wrong.”
Sandy:Totally. I think sometimes people misunderstand the statements I put
out there. While I put my position or my stand out there, it can be easily
be changed. It’s more about putting something out there for people to
give their feedback based on what they believe will solve the problem
or move us forward.
Chris:You’re looking to promote discussion. That’s interesting because it
brings me to another question. How do you share your vision with your
employees? It sounds like one way to do that is to throw an idea out
there to jumpstart discussion. Is there another way? Do you gather
the staff around at meetings, or if there’s a big decision? How do you
share your vision with people and get them on board?
Sandy:I certainly meet regularly with my directors. But, I would say I’m less
apt to just say, “This is the vision. This is where we’re going,” and more
apt to say, “This is where I think we should go. I’m looking for your
feedback and discussion on it.” Again, I may not have formed my
opinion yet.
I think my direct staff knows, when we come out of a meeting with a
direction, not to do anything for 24 hours. In 24 hours I may amend
that. After that 24 hours, I won’t amend it, because that causes conflict
and confusion, and leadership needs to stand by a decision. Every
leader has to be able to make decisions, and inevitably, some will be
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wrong. But at a certain point, you need to stand by a decision, follow
through, and make necessary changes as you go. I just need that 24hour cooling period.
Chris:That makes sense, especially if you’re asking for feedback, you want
adequate time to consider what you heard.
Sandy:Also, sometimes they’ll say “I need a decision on this,” and I’ll give a
decision. But in 24 hours they’ll come back and say, “I want to recheck that. Are you sure that’s what you want to do?” I don’t have
any problem changing my decisions, as long as it is based on us
recognizing what we need to do to move forward successfully.
Chris:Back to what you were saying, too, about the fast-paced nature of this,
you can’t just ruminate over something. At some point you just have to
put your foot down and then move, right?
Sandy:Right. I think we also realize that there are limits in the arena industry.
You’re responsible to give them a great experience for four hours,
and if it doesn’t work out as well as you hoped, then it didn’t work out.
You do the best you can for those four hours and then you walk away
from it. We do a weekly staff meeting that we review every event that
we’ve done in the past week to assess if there is something we could
have done better, or did we do something really good that we need to
emulate for other events going forward.
Chris:
It’s staggering. You have an event practically every day, right?
Sandy:Yeah. This is one week that we’re recapping six events and we’re
talking about seven events going forward. And you don’t want to be
stuck in meetings all the time, because you’ve got work to do, so it’s
less than an hour that we’re going through it. All those departments,
then, that same day, have their own departmental meeting on all
those seven events coming up. Again, we can’t be consumed by
meetings. There’s just too much to get done.
Chris:Back to your brand personality, did you see some of those
attributes early on in your youth, whether it was high school or
elementary school? Especially about speaking your mind and being
approachable?
Sandy:I would say speaking my mind. I would say my family talked a lot
around the dinner table growing up. My father had a lot to say. My
father encouraged us all to contribute, so I think speaking your mind
was always encouraged. If you read the backstory you know I grew up
on a hundred-acre farm.
Chris:
Yes, in Pennsylvania.
Sandy:Where I grew up - I’m sure probably Sturbridge too when you grew up
- my dad was an optometrist, Dr. McMillan. There was a lot of prestige
for our family because he was a very honorable person. People sought
him out not just for medical but for a lot of other things. I think that
where I grew up, I think that approachability probably comes a little
bit out of that. Where I grew up, there was a huge range of people I
interacted with, farmers, Amish, and so forth, in my elementary school.
My father’s patients were a diverse group as well.
I can remember him coming home and having a conversation with my
mom at the dinner table that this Amish family had no money, so they
wanted to trade something for glasses. He wasn’t real big on trading
things, but my mom said, “Well, quilts would be good.” So they traded
quilts for glasses. There was just an openness in that small town. I have
great respect for the rank and file in this building and how they all
contribute to the success of an event. Some of them have very tough
jobs and crazy hours that they’re working, and probably don’t take
enough time to learn their backstory of why they’re here with a second
job, but great people work here.
Chris:Well, you want your culture to really reach down, and I think in a
business like this if most of your directors and the people who are
working in the office day-to-day, if they have a good culture, you can
only trust that the part-timers will also.
Sandy:Yes, though I will tell you this: my other attribute, which I’ve heard
many times over the years, would be fairness to a fault. A lot of times,
my staff will come in and say, “Can the office staff get together and
do this?” And my answer is, “What about the rest of the full-timers?
Just because they’re a union? Why can’t everyone come to the potluck
lunch? “ And, so almost to a fault sometimes, I will not allow what could
be a camaraderie thing because it doesn’t include all 48 full-time
employees.
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Chris:You’ve been here for a while and you will have a lasting legacy
here, especially because the convention center was built just as you
were coming back. What do you hope, looking far out, what people
remember most about you in your time here?
Sandy:I would hope creativity. I think that I have done a really good job
bringing a fresh perspective to a lot of things. I think adding Worcester
Wares, Figs & Pigs, and getting connected to the urban landscape
around us is something that we’ve done which wasn’t envisioned
when the building was designed and was a missed opportunity by my
predecessors.
I think a lot of the private management firms could have been faulted
in the early years, for putting a GM in for a few years and then
popping them out to a bigger building. You never get a real sense of
community that way.
I think during my tenure we have become more engaged in the
community. That has to do with the length of time, my personal
engagement, definitely my staff, and a good deal of creativity.
Maureen Binienda called last year and said she wanted to do a rally
for her first year. We immediately said, “We’ve got to figure out a way
to make that happen.” Could another team that was less engaged with
the community been able to pull it off? Maybe. But our attitude is, “We
can figure that out.”
Chris:Right. You understand the importance of it and what it meant from a
community standpoint.
Sandy:I think that is the legacy that I’ll have and the legacy that I’ll be proud
of having. I really care about the development and positive changes
that we’ve seen in the city of Worcester. It’s always top of mind for me.
Chris:I think that one of the things that I’ve gotten to know about you is that
you don’t approach change with the mindset, “How is this going to
affect the DCU center?” You genuinely want the whole community to
be enhanced.
Sandy:I think that we succeed as a big building. We’ve had a lot of success,
but I think as the community succeeds, all of us succeed, particularly
convention centers. People book a convention center as much for the
destination as they do for the physical attributes of the building. So the
more Worcester’s welcoming, the more people want to come back.
It’s eye-opening to work with people not from Worcester on a regular
basis. Our clients are not from Worcester and the attendees oftentimes
are not from Worcester. We’ve been hearing from outsiders how great
Worcester is for 20 years. I think it’s taken time for everybody to kind
of catch up, and in the last five years, more than just outsiders are
recognizing it.
Chris:Yeah. I do think Worcester’s having a resurgence, and there’s definitely
been some moves that have helped us get there. Thankfully, like you
said, outsiders love it, but our own people have just given it a bad rap.
Sandy:And I think now people see movement going on. I think they’re getting
on board. Do you think there’s a generation change in that?
Chris:I do. It’s funny, because the college students have always sort of been
here, but they never stayed. I think they’re staying more. There’s this
sort of gritty, authentic- we talked about authenticity before. I think, if
nothing else, Worcester is just an authentic industrial city, and in the
past we haven’t been able to get over it, but I think now people are
embracing it for what it is, not for what they want it to be or, “If we
cleaned stuff up, it’s could be this.” I think they’re embracing it for what
it is at its core, which maybe we weren’t ready to do that before.
I do think the new generation, with sustainability, farm-to-table, letting
all the creases and cracks and warts show, they are embracing it.
They don’t want things to be glossed over, so maybe that does have
something to do with it. What’s your take on it?
Sandy:I agree with you whole-heartedly. I still don’t like that word, “gritty,”
though.
Chris:It’s not as much as it used to be, certainly, especially downtown. I think
instead of grit, authentic would be the right word.
Sandy:I like that word a lot. I can remember going back ten years, and great
pride of not having Starbucks. But then there would be that other
group that would be like, “Oh my god. There’s something wrong with
this city because we don’t have a Starbucks.” When the first one went
in, people were like, “Oh my god, we’ve finally come of age.” And it was
like, “Really?”
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Chris:I don’t want to keep you too long, but I do have one more question. If
you were a famous brand, any brand, which one would you be and
why?
Sandy:I actually knew you were going to ask that, so I thought about it and I
don’t buy branded things. I don’t think of doing things based on brand.
I guess I dig a little deeper than, “What’s that brand?” I think I would
pick the Disney brand, but it wouldn’t be necessarily for the obvious,
“Well, the customer service in Disney World, I think probably it’s more
because they’re always adapting, changing, and youthful.
Back to the approachability, I think, that I pride myself that the
30-somethings that are in Worcester feel as comfortable approaching
me as the CEOs. I have pride in that. I think of Disney as being similar:
approachable, changing, open to the next thing.
brandstanza.com
www.ideaagency.biz
Christine Tieri, President and Certified Brand Strategist has
a passion for problem solving and a quest for continuous
improvement. Christine works with businesses, brands,
communities, and individuals to help build their path to success.
As the only Certified Brand Strategist in New England, Christine is
driven to discover her clients’ unique position, help them put a
stake in the ground, and build programs to support their company
goals. Christine is a sought-after speaker on the topics of brand,
integrated marketing, and ideation. She is an expert facilitator
of workshops that help companies solve business challenges
with creativity. She is author of the BrandStanza.com blog – little
ditties that build big brands.
ideaagency.biz
Idea Agency is driven to uncover all the possibilities to help their
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integrated marketing, and idea generation. Harnessing a culture
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