SAFE STANDING
at
London Road Stadium
“..standing is not intrinsically unsafe”
Lord Justice Taylor in his report on the Hillsborough disaster
92% of football fans want the choice to sit or stand
Results of both Football Fans Census 2007 and Guardian Poll 2010
“The IFC recommends that something is done to resolve this ludicrous situation...
To do nothing is no longer an option.”
The conclusion to the Independent Football Commission’s 2007 report
A presentation by:
The Posh Supporters’ Trust
PISA 2000
Forever Posh
With support from the Football Supporters’ Federation
92% of football fans want the choice to sit or stand
SAFE STANDING
at
London Road Stadium
Introduction
What Are Rail Seats?
Financial Considerations
Key Points
The Case for Safe Standing at London Road Stadium
Notes and Sources
Links
To do nothing is no longer an option
92% of football fans want the choice to sit or stand
Introduction
The redevelopment of the London Road Stadium provides an opportunity to address and
resolve a significant source of dissatisfaction amongst football supporters – the loss of the
ability to stand, with the accompanying loss of atmosphere, inherent within the provision of
an all-seater stadium.
The Posh Supporters’ Trust, the Posh Independent Supporters’ Association and ForeverPosh
supported by the Football Supporters’ Federation seek to demonstrate that the provision of their preferred
system of ‘rail seats’, is a viable option for consideration by the planners and developers of the new stadium.
The perception is that any club that is in, or has aspirations to be in, the Championship
or Premier leagues must have all-seater, that is all fixed seat, stands within their stadia.
We believe that is misconception and that for any club or developer that has the desire to
incorporate rail seats there is no obstacle to them doing so even if they are making
provision for playing in the top two leagues. There is no legislative reason why the new stadium,
in present circumstances, cannot incorporate standing areas which can be achieved with rail seats.
We hope that this presentation anticipates and answers most of the questions that may be raised
but representatives of the presenters will answer further queries or are available to attend meetings to
discuss the matter further.
To do nothing is no longer an option
92% of football fans want the choice to sit or stand
What are rail seats?
A redeveloped stadium can bring great benefits both for the clubs and their supporters. But problems are also
created due to the lack of standing areas in most new stands. Every week, thousands of people stand in front of
their seats for the duration of the game. Attempts to remove this practice have largely failed. As a result, many who
would like to sit down find their view blocked and are forced to stand. Safe Standing is as much about protecting
the freedoms of those who wish to sit as those who wish to stand. By segregating the two groups, everyone
benefits.
In England and Wales, standing is permitted at rugby union and rugby league venues, at speedway, horse-racing and
rock/pop concerts within football stadiums. It is allowed at football grounds outside the top two divisions, subject
to the stringent standards laid down in the Government’s Green Guide. We are not proposing to abolish or weaken
these standards but believe that the idea that safety within a ground depends on the type of sport, or quality of
football, played on the pitch is absurd.
It is for these reasons that safe standing areas are advocated and rail seats are the means of achieving this
objective.
In researching soulutions to the problem we have seen two other designs which have been used; these are the clipon and foldaway seat systems. These have drawbacks, however, in terms of change preparation time, visibility and
cost.
A third design, however, is altogether more ingenious. It involves the installation of seats with handrails along the
full length of each row (see photographs on cover and above) – this is the ‘rail seat’ system which we support.
This design is used in modern stadia such as Innsbruck’s Tivoli stadium, Austria (used during Euro 2008)
where for domestic games the seats are typically locked with supporters standing two deep between the barriers
and for European games, the seats are simply unlocked and the
capacity reduced. When in standing mode, the capacity is approximately 1.8 times higher than when in seated
mode, as seated supporters take up more space.
To do nothing is no longer an option
92% of football fans want the choice to sit or stand
Financial considerations:
traditional seats vs rail seats
We have obtained quotes from the Italian and German
companies who have installed rail seats in European stadia.
The indications are that this would work out around £85 per
seat, which may seem expensive against the cost of around
£60 for a traditional seat.
This £25 premium should, however, be offset against a
number of other financial considerations.
When the ground is in standing mode (for example, if the club
is playing below the Championship, or where other non football
events such as concerts are held in the stadium) rail seats
offer a higher capacity than traditional seats. With more people,
ticket revenues, along with expenditure on merchandising, food
and drink and so forth, rise. It would take only one or two such
events to pay for the seating. Beyond the break-even point,
rail seats are more remunerative than traditional seats.
The evidence shows that where supporters who wish to
stand are offered designated standing areas, instances of
persistent standing in seated areas are largely eliminated.
This means clubs do not incur additional stewarding costs of
trying to seat supporters against their will.
Through the increased enjoyment of those who prefer to
stand and the better ground atmosphere, supporters are
likely to attend more matches and spend more money.
Amongst FSF members, we are aware that providing an
option to stand can increase attendance. By becoming the
first major club in England to use rail seats, we believe that
the redeveloped London Road stadium can generate
positive publicity for all those involved.
In conclusion
We hope that you will consider rail seats and the FSF would
be delighted to assist the club and stadium architects with
matters such as arranging trips abroad to meet construction
companies or to see rail seats in use.
To do nothing is no longer an option
92% of football fans want the choice to sit or stand
KEY POINTS
The problems with all fixed seat stadiums
Cause of dissatisfaction amongst fans who wish to stand.
Conflict between fans sitting and those frequently standing and obstructing their view.
Higher crowd control costs due to lack of clarity on definition of ‘persistent’ standing which
leads to disputes with stewards.
Traditional atmosphere is diminished.
Capacity is reduced in a stand occupying the same ‘footprint’ as one with standing terraces.
Club loses the ability to maximise attendances, and hence income, for ‘big’ fixtures.
The benefits of rail seats
Dedicated standing and seated areas reduce conflict between fans with different
requirements. Where people have the choice those in seated areas tend to remain seated with
unobstructed views.
Clarity as to where standing and sitting are acceptable and permitted means fewer disputes with
stewards – and potentially fewer stewards.
Removal of one of the causes of crowd trouble leads to better atmosphere
Strong barriers and flip-down seats give flexibility to change arrangements to suit the needs of
the club – capacity is increased by a ratio of 18 standing to 10 seated in Rail Seat areas.
Proven technology that has been used on the continent for many years.
Positive publicity for Peterborough council and the club for pioneering the system in England.
Rail Seat terraces do not mean standing in seated areas. These are standing areas (with the
seats locked up) and tickets are sold as standing spaces.
To do nothing is no longer an option
92% of football fans want the choice to sit or stand
KEY POINTS
The disadvantages of rail seats
Higher initial installation cost (approximately £85 per seating space compared with £60 per
seat space in traditional manner). However, that is a relatively small addition compared with
the cost that would be incurred if a later adaption to the stands were deemed desirable.
The perceived obstacles to the
introduction of rail seats
Clubs promoted to the Championship/Premiership must have all-seater stadiums. [Rail Seats do not
breach this requirement].
Standing in seated areas is illegal. [Not true. The law only provides that clubs, in the top two
leagues, provide seats for all supporters, not that they must sit in them].
To do nothing is no longer an option
92% of football fans want the choice to sit or stand
The case for safe standing rail seat areas
at London Road Stadium
The majority of fans are in favour. The stadium is for the fans.
The stadium is not (or should not be) being redeveloped as an architectural exercise.
The stadium is not (or should not be) being redeveloped solely as a venue for two teams to play a game of
football, they can do that as well on the local recreation ground.
The stadium is (or should be) being redeveloped to provide the facilities for fans to watch football, and
possibly other sporting, events. The whole point of a stadium is to provide for spectators to spectate in
a reasonable degree of comfort. Hence, the over-riding priority and consideration in the design of the
redevelopment should be to provide, as far as is reasonable, what the fans want. The fans desire for
standing areas to be incorporated into the new stands is a reasonable wish which can be fulfilled.
The redevelopment of the stadium presents an opportunity for the incorporation of imaginative
design solutions to satisfy the end users’ wishes – including safe standing areas.
The design of the new stand at London Road End has not (to the best of our knowledge) commenced and
so the incorporation of Safe Standing areas into the design presents no problems.
Whilst the design of the Moy’s End stand is presently being undertaken, ready for submission for planning
approval, the incorporation of provision for Safe Standing areas is not difficult as it involves, in terms of the
overall design rather than the detail, maybe just a change in the rake of the part of the stand designated
for that purpose. Although anecdotal, not subject to any poll, it is can be said that the views expressed by
many visiting fans on messageboards show that fans of clubs that do have all-seater stadia enjoy visiting
London Road where they have the ability to stand. The incorporation of safe standing areas into the Moy’s
End stand would have the advantage of being a trial for the designing of a potentially larger safe standing
area into the London Road end stand.
Future changes to the rules on seating in stadiums would involve much greater expenditure on
adaption of a stadium already constructed.
In addition to, or probably because of, the expressed wishes of the overwhelmimg majority of fans
a number of clubs want to explore the possibility of installing Safe Standing areas in new ground
developments and 145 MPs have signed an Early Day Motion calling for a reopening of the debate on Safe
Standing. It is more likely than not that there will be relaxations to the seating rules in the not to distant
future. The opportunity to provide for such changes must not be missed and need not be missed in the
redeveloped London Road stadium design.
To do nothing is no longer an option
92% of football fans want the choice to sit or stand
The case for safe standing rail seat areas
at London Road Stadium
Peterborough City Council and their designers and Peterborough United Football Club will
attract favourable publicity from initiating such an imaginative design.
Is it not irritating when MK Dons stadium seems always to be featured on regional television programmes?
Not just for news pieces about football but as a backdrop for other sporting interviews and reports.
Irritating maybe, but understandable as it is an innovative and publicity attracting stadium. London Road
Stadium can replace MK Dons stadium as the premier East of England stadium if it is offering new, novel
features that no other stadium does – such as Safe Standing areas.
Dissatisfaction and conflict amongst fans with different requirements can be reduced leading
to reduced stewarding and policing costs.
It is unnecessary and costly for the club to employ stewards, whose main focus is to minimize spectator
standing, when the solution can be so easily and safely incorporated into the design of any new stand.
The stadium will be readily adaptable to suit, and maximize attendances, at whatever level the
club is playing at.
It is, of course, every Posh fan’s wish that the club play at the highest level possible and, if that, as is
hoped, is the Championship or Premiership then all indications are that rail seat areas are acceptable
under the present regulations and can immediately be adapted if regulations change. If hopes are not
fulfilled and the club is playing below Championship level then Safe Standing areas will allow for much
greater attendances at big matches than would be possible in a conventional all-seater stadium.
PUFC are in favour of the incorporation of Safe Standing areas and would welcome the
opportunity for the club to take part in a trial of the system.
They recognize the benefits that can accrue to the club if this initiative is taken and the
opportunity is seized – now.
Immediate benefits are seen as accruing in the short-term, transitional phase of the redevelopment. At
present an all-seated stand accommodating up to 3,000 is being muted for the Moy’s (away) end. If half
of this capacity were to be changed to Safe Standing areas then the capacity, within the same footprint,
would be increased to more than 4,000 thus easing the problems of relocating fans displaced during the
rebuilding of the North and West stands.
To do nothing is no longer an option
92% of football fans want the choice to sit or stand
All those in favour
say ‘aye’
92% of football fans
The Posh Supporters’ Trust
PISA 2000
ForeverPosh
Peterborough United Football Club
The Football Supporters’ Federation
The Independent Football Commission
A substantial number of football clubs including Everton who
wish to include Safe Standing areas in their new stadium and Wycombe Wanderers who have hosted two Safe Standing days.
The Bundesliga in Germany and many European clubs that have
successful safe standing areas in their stadia
The Liberal Democrat Party – for whom the re-opening of
discussions on the introduction of safe standing areas was
adopted as party policy in 2008
145 MPs who have signed an Early Day Motion (EDM 101) calling
for a re-opening of the debate on Safe Standing. This includes
MPs from across the political spectrum, namely the Labour,
Conservative, Liberal Democrat, Plaid Cymru, Democratic
Unionist and Social Democratic Parties
To do nothing is no longer an option
92% of football fans want the choice to sit or stand
Notes and sources
n The figure of 92% comes from a Football Fans Census conducted in 2007 (92%) and a Guardian
Newspaper poll conducted in 2010 (91.4%) in favour of the same proposition that fans wish to have the
choice as to whether to sit or stand.
n The figures for the cost of traditional seating is from information obtained from Bradford City FC and the
figures for rail seats from a quotation received from Bertele for 2,000 – 3,000 seats including installation.
n Assertions that Posh fans are in favour of having the choice of standing or sitting is not as a result of
any conducted poll but is the consensus view of the representatives of the fans organisations making this
presentation after feedback received from their members.
n Verbally, in discussions with the Football Supporters’ Federation, the Football Foundation have said that
they would fund stands with rail seat terraces, but this has not been tested.
n Individual ground regulations may forbid fans to stand in seated areas but, if they are founded on the
Football League model document, then it is ‘persistent’ standing that is forbidden. The word ‘persistent’ is
down to individual club safety officers to interpret and in turn to instruct
stewards to act upon according to their subjective conclusion. This regulation is, therefore and
unsurprisingly, inconsistently applied, difficult to enforce and leads to disputes.
n In Germany all 18 Bundesliga clubs have standing areas. Their average attendances are the highest in
Europe. The league is the most profitable in Europe. This may be coincidental but, as standing areas are a key
part of their business model, it is not unreasonable to suppose that it may not be.
Safe Standing is permitted at domestic matches whilst in European competitions the stadia are
easily converted and used in an all-seater mode. Some of Europe’s most modern stadia, such as the Veltins
Arena in Gelsenkirchen, Germany (used during the 2006 World Cup) and the Tivoli Stadium in Innsbruck,
Austria (used during Euro 2008), feature standing accommodation for domestic fixtures. Ticket prices for
standing areas are typically lower than in seated areas, making the stadiums more socially inclusive.
To do nothing is no longer an option
92% of football fans want the choice to sit or stand
Links
The Legalities of Standing
www.fsf.org.uk/media/uploaded/Legalities-of-standing.pdf
Football Supporters’ Federation Safe Standing Report 2007
www.fsf.org.uk/media/uploaded/safe-standing-report-web(1).pdf
You Tube Video ‘Safe Standing – A Common Sense Solution’
www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5yHbDAz2Sc
Independent Football Commission Annual Report 2007 – Chapter 4, pages 51-58
www.theifc.co.uk/publications/documents/2007AnnualReport.pdf
From the website ‘The Seventy Two’.
“In these new grounds we find perfect sight-lines and excellently raked stands. We sit in comfort and we enjoy, at times, a rather
soulless experience. For fans of stadium architecture like me, many of these new stadia are very similar. Some design features
apart they are often built to similar plans drawn up by the same architect and built as if Identikits by a small number of building
firms. Seat colours and branding apart, you as a fan could be sitting in any one of a number of stadiums.
They (traditional) stands may be fewer, but that experience still exists. Places where a football geek can enjoy a nostalgic
stadium experience as well as the football match, being reminded of simpler times before the Taylor Report and before
corporatism captured the game.
So here is my view of one stand in one ground per division of the Football League, where you can wallow away, safe in the
football supporters’ masochistic knowledge that if a goal is scored, you just might miss it.
League One - The Moyes (sic) (Away) terrace at London Road, Peterborough United
Always a favourite this one. You stand under a low roof that amplifies the acoustics. Five rows of white crash barriers on the
terrace hold a large crowd in place and a whopping six pillars support the roof, placed at the front of the stand.
Watching a game near the front you can almost reach out and touch a player taking a corner, or a goalkeeper on his line. If
your team manages to score at the Away terrace goal, the players are right on top of you, magnifying the experience already
assaulting your senses from the crescendo of celebratory stand from under the roof.”
From Nick Brayley, a Swansea City supporter.
‘Swansea recently moved from the old terraced Vetch Field to the all seater Liberty Stadium. Although many people like this,
my matchday enjoyment has been completely ruined. I am a loyal fan who goes to about 40 of the 46 league games, I’ve been
supporting my local team since I was 4, and work as a a cleaner along with being a student to pay to support my team, which
costs about £700 a season. I appreciate choice is important, but I really don’t think loyal fans like myself deserve to be locked in
a seat showing no emotion. Give your fans the choice to sit or stand.’
To do nothing is no longer an option