.
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References
American Beef I n d u s t r y Symposium, (1966) Chicago, I l l i n o i s
Graham, A. B., (1925). Some P r i n c i p l e s o f Extension Teaching.
Proc. Am. SOC. Prod. P. 147-151.
Hazel, L. N. and E. A. Kline, (1952). Mechanical Measurement of Fatness
and Carcass Value i n Live Hogs. Journal Ani. Sci. 11:313.
Hubbard, Dixon, (1967).
Miller, Paul, (1955).
Colleges.
RMC Proc.
Federal Extension Service USDA Personal Comm.
The Role of Meats Extension Work i n The Land-Grant
P. 61-66.
Moulton, C. Robert, (1928). The Showing, The P r i z e Carcass Contest, and
The Butcher's Block A s Measures of Q u a l i t y I n Meats. Proc. Am. SOC. of
A n i m a l Prod. 122-130.
Pierce, J. C., and D. L. H a l l e t , (1961). Basis and Implementation of
The Dual Beef Grading Concept. WIC Proc. P. 10-21.
.
Proceedings Second Coordinated Beef Improvement Conference; ( 1963)
Lincoln, Nebraska.
Reif, Edgar C., (1963). S t e e r of Merit Frogram i n Beef Improvement.
Froc. WSU Stockman's Short Course. P. B-31-34.
Wentworth, E. N., (1933). Livestock Records of Performance and Their
Value T o The Meat Industry. Proc. Am, SOC. Animal Prod. P. 48-51.
DR. PIERCE: Thank you very much, Frank. That i s t h e comment
I had reference t o e a r l i e r , and I b e l i e v e it i s c e r t a i n l y appropriate
for a l l of us who a r e working i n extension programs. We a r e nearly back
on schedule, so we're going t o d i p i n t o t h e "More Opportunities f o r
Reciprocation" a l i t t l e b i t t o c a r r y on our discussion. I t h i n k it
would be a shame i f we missed out on an opportunity t o pose more quest i o n s t o some of t h e s e very s t i m u l a t i n g speakers. I t h i n k J i m , i n h i s
opening remarks, i n d i c a t e d an a r e a of r e s p o n s i b i l i t y with almost unl i m i t e d bounds f o r a r e a s of work i n meat extension. And Frank has j u s t
now i n d i c a t e d t h e wide range of areas where we can be of g r e a t b e n e f i t
and s e r v i c e t o t h e i n d u s t r y , One example t h a t comes t o my mind of
using technologies which have been developed and which a r e being used
by our c l i e n t e l e i n t h e f i e l d i s a l i t t l e item of sona-rays f o r
measurements on purebred swine which a r e o f f e r e d f o r s a l e . I know some
142.
of t h e breed p u b l i c a t i o n s t h a t come out, some o f , what we c a l l our name
herds of swine, l i s t t h e animals from some of our name herds i n t h e
s a l e w i t h a sona-ray measurement f o r so much back f a t and so much l o i n eye a r e a . Now t h i s i s good, It's a p u b l i c i t y gimmick which has q u i t e
a l o t of value, and perhaps means something t o some people. Temporarily
I ' m going t o c l a s s i f y myself w i t h t h e ignorant people and w i l l admit
t h a t I d o n ' t know what it means when t h e y say t h a t it i s sona-ray so
much. And t h e reason I d o n ' t know what it means i s , t h a t I do not bel i e v e t h a t we have any parameters e s t a b l i s h e d f o r t h o s e measurements a t
t h e p r e s e n t time so t h a t we can s e t a standard d e v i a t i o n and check t h e
v a l i d i t y of what t h e y a r e a c t u a l l y t r y i n g t o t e l l us. This might be a n
a r e a a g a i n for cooperation between r e s e a r c h and extension personnel. A t
t h i s time I would l i k e t o open t h e f l o o r f o r d i s c u s s i o n and questions
f o r t h e f o u r speakers. If t h e y would make themselves a v a i l a b l e up here
i n f r o n t , so t h a t y o u ' l l be c l o s e t o t h e microphone.
MR. JOHNSON: (Washington) I ' d l i k e t o ask Frank about
blue, red, and white c l a s s i f i c a t i o n of s t e e r s . These a r e
estimated according t o t h e i r c u t a b i l i t y . There i s nothing, I
assume, on grade.
DR. BAKER: This c l a s s i f i c a t i o n has been changed a
couple of times, b u t a s it stands now, t h e blue-ribbon s t e e r s a r e
those which a r e estimated by two c l a s s i f i e r s t o y i e l d a t l e a s t
f o r t y - n i n e p e r cent of t h e i r carcass weight i n c l o s e l y trimmed s t e a k
and r o a s t meat and grade minimum choice. The red-ribbon s t e e r s a r e
those which w i l l y i e l d about t h e same or more, forty-nine p e r cent
or more, b u t a r e t h e t o p good c a t t l e . The white-ribbon s t e e r s ,
which we f e e l a r e t h e lesser-valued s t e e r s , a r e over f a t and grade
choice.
MR. JOHNSON:
I was wondering what you d i d w i t h those fats.
DR. BAKER: They a r e i n w h i t e ribbon. Now t h i s was changed.
Last year we had t h e white-ribbon s t e e r s a s red ones. We reversed
t h e red and whites t h i s p a s t year.
DR. CARPENTER: ( F l o r i d a ) . One question for M r , O r t s .
t h e board, you had champions l i s t e d , We assume t h a t it was t h e
champions l a s t year. Is t h a t r i g h t ?
On
DR. ORTS: No, Pete. This i s an average of a l l t h e champions.
On a l l of t h e s e shows we have a l a r g e number of champions. For
example, i n t h e Houston Show t h e r e a r e twenty champions named. So,
t h i s might involve twenty s t e e r s . But i t ' s t h e average of t h c s e l i v e
champions. Champions of t h e l i v e show.
DR. PIERCE:
Another question.
Quinn Kolb from Wisconsin.
MR. KOLB: Frank, I ' m very i n t e r e s t e d i n your m a t e r i a l . I
j u s t have one q u e s t i o n t o ask. Do you happen t o have t h e informat i o n on c a r c a s s weight? Have you reduced average carcass weight i n
your steer program? Then number two, you t a l k e d about working
i n d u s t r y i n your s t a t e . This i s a p u b l i c r e l a t i o n s problem cont i n u o u s l y . A s we evaluate t h e data you've c o l l e c t e d , do you t h i n k
143.
t h a t you might have done a s much f o r t h e beef i n d u s t r y of Texas
i f you'd have gathered t h e information on, say, h a l f t h e number
of years, or a q u a r t e r , or do you t h i n k i t ' s necessary t o c o l l e c t
it on a l l of t h e s t e e r s ?
DR. ORTS: Well, l e t me say t h i s . T h i s i s not a l l of t h e
s t e e r s shown. This i s j u s t a sample of t h e s t e e r s , because t h e r e
a r e e a r t a g s t h a t a r e l o s t ; t h e r e a r e l o t s of s t e e r s t h a t e a r t a g s
j u s t d o n ' t g e t t r a n s f e r r e d on; and a l o t of t h e people up here i n
t h e midwest come up and p i c k up our good lightweight c a t t l e and
t a k e them t o t h e I n t e r n a t i o n a l o r t h e American Royal. So, t h e s e
a r e not a l l t h e s t e e r s . I n Houston l a s t year, I t h i n k we had s i x
hundred and ninety-nine s t e e r s t h a t weighed-in. We saw about two
hundred s t e e r s . So, i t ' s not every s t e e r shown. I t ' s unfortunate
sometimes, because we have an i n d i v i d u a l up here who wante informat i o n on t h r e e s t e e r s t h a t he had i n t h e Houston Show. These
u n f o r t u n a t e l y were a group t h a t t h e t a g s were not t r a n s f e r r e d on,
and we l o s t t h e s e s t e e r s . I n a l o t of cases t h i s i s t r u e . These
breeders use t h i s s t u f f when t h e y ' r e s e l l i n g b u l l s , and t h e y ' r e
beginning t o use it more and more a l l t h e time. So, we d o n ' t g e t
a l l the steers.
possible.
MR. KOLB:
DR. ORTS:
p o s s i b l y can.
I gather t h a t you t r y t o g e t it on a s many a s
We would l i k e t o g e t it on as many as we
MR. KOLB: I n your beef-tagging, does i n d u s t r y p r e t t y
much go along w i t h you on t h i s b a s i s ?
DR. ORTS:
I ' v e had none of them t u r n m e down.
DR. VARNEY: We would very much l i k e t o introduce weight
per day of age i n t o our c a r c a s s show. Could you f i g u r e out any
way we could do t h i s ? I n many cases t h e kids i n t h e Youth Show
d o n ' t know what t h e ages a r e . We're j u s t wondering i f t h e r e was
anyone using t h i s or could shed any l i g h t on it.
DR. ORTS: I might make a comment concerning t h i s . We
would l i k e t o , a l s o ; e s p e c i a l l y i n our c a r c a s s shows. We ask f o r
a b i r t h d a t e , and I ' l l say sometimes t h e y d o n ' t know. But I t h i n k
t h a t i f t h e y know w i t h i n f i f t e e n days, o r even t h i r t y days, t h i s i s
c l o s e enough i n some cases. Now t h i s p a s t year, i n F o r t Worth,
we've had c h i l l e d carcass weights per day of age ranging from 1.1
t o 1.7.
When t h e y g e t up t o 1.5, I s t a r t doubting it. The s t a t e ment I want t o make i s that we have very few, I t h i n k , of t h e s e
people who a r e not honest. I s a y t h a t ninety-nine p o i n t nine per
cent a r e honest, and we have t o worry about t h i s t e n t h of one per
cent. We're t r y i n g t o work on something now by looking a t t h e jaws
a l i t t l e b i t c l o s e r we can come up w i t h an age t h a t w i l l be j u s t a
l i t t l e b i t b e t t e r t h a n t h e one showing on t h e e n t r y card.
144
DR. BAKER: I b e l i e v e t h a t Bob Kelly might have some
experiences i n t h i s connection, because a s I r e c a l l , i n t h e "Steer of
Merit"Program i n Virginia you do have a carcass weight per day o f
age involved do you not, Bob?
DR. KELLY:
Yes, s i r , we do.
DR. PIERCE: Bob, why d o n ' t you come up here so we can g e t
your comments on t h e tape.
DR. BAKER: While h e ' s coming up here, I ' v e heard C u r t i s
Mast i n t h e V i r g i n i a group say t h a t they have t h e s e ages submitted i n
advance, and t h e y p r e t t y w e l l accept t h a t V i r g i n i a gentlemen a r e
ninety-nine per cent accurate i n t h a t s t e e r show.
DR. KELLY: This i s a problem. But t h e club agents make
q u i t e an e f f o r t t o know t h e background of t h e s t e e r s t h a t t h e club
c h i l d r e n g e t . A s a r e s u l t , we have what we c a l l a "Top Ten Carcass
Show'' where most of t h e s t e e r s i n t h e t h r e e major shows a r e
slaughtered and t h e n evaluated, and we p i c k out t h e t o p t e n . I n
t h e s e we do use weight per day of age, and we go f o r t h e honesty of
t h e s e boys and g i r l s ; t h e y know a s w e l l a s can be known. It seems
t h a t t h e r e a r e a l o t of calves born on A p r i l f i r s t , and a l o t of
them on January f i r s t and t h i n g s l i k e t h a t . But we do use t h a t
weight p e r day of age. We haven't had a s high a weight of c a r c a s s
per day of age, a s Frank has mentioned. I t h i n k t h e highest we've
gone up t o i s 1.58 pounds of carcass per day of age. And t h e n we
have some low ones. We have i n f a c t sometimes had t h e champion
s t e e r come up w i t h about 0.98 pounds of c a r c a s s per day of age. But
we do use it i n making t h e f i n a l p l a c i n g along w i t h t h a t carcassvalue index t h a t I t h i n k you're a l l f a m i l i a r with. This i s , of
course, no b e t t e r t h a n t h e d a t a , t h e o r i g i n a l d a t a you c o l l e c t e d , and
we're assuming t h a t i t ' s somewhere near r i g h t .
DR. PIERCE: Thank you, Bob, f o r those comments. W e ' l l have
time f o r one more question. But we have two. Eob Rust from Iowa, and
Bob Reddish, you have a question? Come up here, so, we make s u r e
y o u ' r e on t h e tape.
MR. RUST: We have used weight per day of age f o r about
t h r e e years now i n our c l a s s a t our Spring Market Hog Show. We
have r e q u i r e d nomination of t h e s e p i g s before t h e y weigh f i f t e e n
pounds which w i l l g e t us back t o a f a i r l y accurate b i r t h date. You
c a n ' t do much w i t h t h e p i g as f a r a s holding o r pushing him w i t h i n
t h a t f i r s t f i f t e e n pounds. A t t h a t time an o f f i c i a l , one of our
a r e a extension s p e c i a l i s t s o r one of our swine s p e c i a l i s t s or someone
connected w i t h t h e show, a c t u a l l y goes out and t a t t o o s t h e s e pigs.
They can nominate four and show one. This gives them a l i t t l e b e t t e r
chance i n case of death loss. We've found t h i s works p r e t t y w e l l .
Not t h a t w e doubt t h e honesty of any of t h e s e b r e e d e r s ; they j u s t
have very bad memories.
DR. PIERCE:
Bob Reddish from F l o r i d a has a question.
145.
DR, REDDISH: I want t o ask Frank Orts a q u e s t i o n , Does
he f e e l t h a t t h e breed r e p r e s e n t a t i v e s have used t h i s information t o
good advantage, and a l s o some of t h e l a r g e r f e e d e r s ?
DR. ORTS: Bob, I t h i n k t h i s i s s o r t of a loaded question.
I would r e f r a i n from answering t h e Breed Association p a r t of it, b u t
I t h i n k t h a t most of our f e e d e r s have begun t o use it considerably.
DR. PIERCE: Well, I hate t o i n t e r r u p t and break off t h i s
discussion, b u t our period of time f o r r e c i p r o c i t y i s about completed.
I have one announcement. I d o n ' t know whether i t ' s t o o l a t e o r not.
Paul Lewis, Chairman of t h e Physical Committee, has asked t h a t if' any
of you members a r e i n t h i s group, he would l i k e t o meet you i n t h e
paying desk on t h e lower lobby during t h e break. I again want t o
p e r s o n a l l y thank t h e s e speakers on t h e Continuing Education Committee's
program for t h e e x c e l l e n t r e p o r t s t h e y have made. I hope t h a t you've
enjoyed it t h e p a s t hour and f o r t y minutes. Thank you very much.
J i m S t o u f f e r has a comment.
DR. STOUFFER: We're showing t h e video-tape, i f any of
you a r e i n t e r e s t e d , i n t h e next room across t h e h a l l .
DR. PIERCE: J i m S t o u f f e r has j u s t announced t h a t t h e y ' r e
showing t h e video-tape on "Beef Slaughter and Sausage Manufacture"
i n t h e room across t h e h a l l i f you want t o t a k e t h e opportunity t o
s e e it. The next s e s s i o n i s scheduled t o s t a r t i n t h i s room a t
t e n - f i f t e e n , and Bob Kelly w i l l be presiding.
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