TRANSCRIPT OF THE PUBLIC HEARING HELD IN THE COUNCIL
CHAMBER, CITY HALL, 141 WEST 14th STREET, NORTH
VANCOUVER, B.C., ON MONDAY, DECEMBER 14, 2009 AT 7:30
P.M.
PRESENT:
COUNCIL MEMBERS
STAFF MEMBERS
Mayor D.R. Mussatto
Councillor P.J. Bookham
Councillor R.C. Clark
Councillor R.J. Fearnley
Councillor R.G. Heywood
Councillor C.R. Keating
Councillor M.L. Trentadue
A.K. Tollstam, City Manager
S.E. Dowey, City Clerk
J.M. Rowe, Assistant City Clerk
R.H. White, Director, Community Development
E. Adin, City Planner
G. Penway, Deputy Director, Community
Development
J. Hodgins, Timekeeper
Re: Bylaw No. 8052 – 845 Marine Drive – File: 3345-02 MARI 845
The Public Hearing was called to order at 7:32 p.m.
Mayor D.R. Mussatto
Ms. Dowey!
Ms. S.E. Dowey, City Clerk
Thank you Your Worship. The Public Hearing this evening is regarding Bylaw No. 8052
to amend the text of the CD-537 (Comprehensive Development 537) Zone as it pertains
to property legally described as Lot C, Block X, D.L. 265, Plan 20344, located at 845
Marine Drive. This amendment would permit a retail use (maximum 3,000 sq ft) for the
sale of all types of packaged liquor and alcohol beverages. The applicant is
VANCOUVER
PACIFIC
DEVELOPMENT
CORPORATION,
WENSLEY
ARCHITECTURE LTD. and Council will consider Bylaw No. 8052 under Item 5 this
evening. I would also like to advise, Your Worship, that I have received six letters in
favour and two letters opposed, all of which have been circulated to Council prior to the
Public Hearing this evening.
Mayor Mussatto
Thank you Ms. Dowey. Ms. Adin is going to be doing a staff presentation. Welcome
Ms. Adin. Thank you!
Ms. Emilie Adin, City Planner
Thank you Your Worship. The purpose of this rezoning application is a text amendment
to the Zoning Bylaw to allow a liquor store as a permitted use at 845 Marine Drive. The
location as you can see is at the south side of Marine Drive, north of West 3rd Street.
The Official Community Plan designation for the subject property is commercial and
liquor stores are therefore permitted as per the Official Community Plan designation.
The zoning for this property is CD-537, which permits Retail Service Group 1 uses.
A text amendment is required in order to permit a licensed Liquor Retail Store. The
location of the proposed store, in relation to other licensed liquor stores, Your Worship, I
will just bring your attention to the fact the North Shore Liquor Shop is there, the
Pemberton Station is down in the south in the District of North Vancouver, the Avalon
Liquor Retail Store otherwise known as Taylors Crossing is up Marine Drive to the
north, Everything Wine Store, as well as the Government Liquor Retail Store.
Now the policy background, if I could just take a couple of minutes of your time, Your
Worship, to set the context for this Public Hearing. The policy background is that there
has been a Provincial moratorium in effect on new Liquor Retail Stores since 1992. It
was briefly lifted in 2002 for a few months and Council Policy was created in January
2004, and since rescinded, relating to new liquor retail establishments. In its place,
Zoning Amendment Bylaw No. 7466 was put in place in March, 2004 specifically
prohibiting licensed liquor facilities except as varied through a zoning amendment,
which is the reason that this zoning application is before you tonight.
In November, 2004 Council adopted Zoning Amendment Bylaw No. 7629 limiting retail
or wholesale floor area to 2,000 square feet. The Provincial Liquor Control and
Licensing Branch, Your Worship, requires half a kilometre distance between licensed
retail stores, Liquor Retail Stores and the applicant’s proposal has received preclearance from the Licensing Branch at 845 Marine Drive. Now the development
proposal before us tonight is for 2,000 square feet of retail floor area and 1,000 square
feet of storage and, Your Worship, a number of technical issues have been worked out
and Planning and Engineering staff have no concerns about the development at this
time and we are here to answer any questions that you may have.
Mayor Mussatto
Thank you very much Ms. Adin for your presentation. Is the applicant or his or her
representative here to make a presentation this evening? Welcome Mr. Watt!
Mr. Cameron Watt, 3421 Emerald Drive, North Vancouver
Thank you, Your Worship, Council, good evening and staff. As you know my name is
Cameron Watt. I reside at 3421 Emerald Drive in the District of North Vancouver. We
almost bought a house in the City but the opportunity came up to buy my brother’s
house so that seemed like a great thing to do.
I am in front of you this evening with respect to our application to move our Pemberton
Station Pub Liquor Retail Store from its existing location at the foot of Pemberton Street
in North Vancouver to the new Thrifty Foods Mall Centre at 845 Marine Drive. Sadly
Mr. Bert Hick could not join us this evening; he is my Liquor Consultant. He is also the
previous General Manager of Liquor Control and Licensing for the Province of British
Columbia. I do know that a letter was sent through to Your Worship, as well as another
letter to Council this afternoon, just identifying some of the things that have taken place
in the Province’s liquor history.
City of North Vancouver
Re: Bylaw No. 8052
Vancouver Pacific Development Corp./
Wensley Architecture Ltd., 845 Marine Drive
Page 2 of 22
Public Hearing
December 14, 2009
I have as well with me this evening, Larry Sunderland, who is the President of the
Vancouver Pacific Development Corporation, who is the developer of that particular new
mall.
I am aware that some of Council is concerned that you have opened the floodgates that
with this application there would be an opportunity for other applicants to come into the
City and that you would be overwhelmed with new applications. The reality is that as at
the end of this month, December the 31, 2009, all outstanding Liquor Retail Store
licenses that have not been placed in the Province will have been placed. Recently, two
weeks ago, there was legislation that went into effect with respect to those stores that
are still outstanding in the Province. The Province has made it very clear that they want
all of the stores placed and thereby there have been locations chosen and those stores
will be going to those locations. So the thought that you would have opened the
floodgates, I think you will find, is folly.
Please remember that this is a transfer of an existing license. It is not a new license
and in fact in the District and in the City of North Vancouver Mr. Hick’s letter this
afternoon would have identified that we have even lost a Liquor Store in the District of
North Vancouver at Norgate Plaza it has been closed permanently.
The strength of this application to me is the fact that we are moving it from the
Pemberton Station to a shopping mall. You can use that over used phrase that it helps
the carbon footprint but it in fact does. You are providing an opportunity for customers
to purchase all of their goods in one place and I do not think those of you who know
anything about Thrifty Foods, I know that you will find them a welcome new business
person in your community. As evidenced as well too, I believe that the last store that
was opened in the City opened at a shopping mall and in fact that you welcomed that
application to move ahead.
I have lived on the North Shore for 50 years (yes I am now 50 years old as of July). I
have spent the past seven years involving myself in the North Vancouver School
District. It is not what I do for a living but I certainly spend a lot of time there. Most
importantly I have been focusing on the Lonsdale corridor in two high schools, one
being Balmoral High School in fighting vehemently to keep it open and then latterly
working as past Co-Chair of Carson Graham School and working to have a new school
built on those grounds.
I also manage and operate a series of buildings in the Downtown Eastside of
Vancouver. One of which is a beautifully restored theatre called District 319. It is the
legacy of a good friend of mine named William Vince, a very accomplished young
filmmaker that sadly, at the age of 44 years old, died of cancer last year. I am proud of
that work because not only have we made a success of a venue, we also have opened
an Elder Women’s Centre thereby providing a safe home for 11 women that had
previously been compromised in their life. I also, just speaking of experience, am a
partner of a Liquor Store in Nanaimo, British Columbia.
City of North Vancouver
Re: Bylaw No. 8052
Vancouver Pacific Development Corp./
Wensley Architecture Ltd., 845 Marine Drive
Page 3 of 22
Public Hearing
December 14, 2009
As well too, on our two Downtown Eastside buildings, we provide a program called
Intersections. Intersections is a Youth At Risk Film Program which involves young
people, takes them off the streets, introduces them to the film business, pays them,
feeds them, and as well introduces them to mentors in the industry of film.
I previously served with my friend Jack Farley who, as you know, is the Board Chair of
West Coast Alternatives and of the Kids First Program on the North Shore. I served
with Jack on the BC Sports Hall of Fame. Jack phoned me a month or so ago and told
me of their challenge with respect to losing their funding for West Coast Alternatives.
Jack asked, from previous experience where I had assisted in the BC Sports Hall of
Fame, whether I would assist West Coast Alternatives and Kids First in helping to
develop a program that would replace some of the lost funding that you are all aware of.
I am proud to say that I have been part of a team that has come up with an exciting
program called Operation “Put Your Two Cents In”. You will hear from some of the folks
from West Coast Alternatives tonight. You may question why they would be coming out
and supporting an application such as mine.
The reality is that those of us in the liquor industry contribute to some challenges in
liquor that some people face. By coming forward as a professional in the industry and
as a concerned citizen I will be able to put my money where my mouth is with this
application and in fact “Put My Two Cents In”. Some of you may wonder and think; well
the minute the ink dries on allowing Mr. Watt to go ahead, he potentially could be dust
from this program. I think I have demonstrated in the school system that I have been
around for seven years and I would be proud to spend the next seven years or however
many years being a part of the West Coast Program. Give me a chance to move ahead
and I certainly won’t disappoint. Thank you.
I think you are aware as well too; staff spoke to the fact that ours is a store with a 2,000
square foot retail area and 1,000 square foot area for storage. We are going to be
focusing on beers that you cannot find currently on the North Shore. There will be a
compliment of wine of course and then there will be spirits, focusing in the area, as well
all of the spirits, fine scotches and fine tequilas. Thank you.
Mayor Mussatto
Thank you very much Mr. Watt for your presentation. Now is an opportunity for
members of the public to have their say, ask questions or make comments. We do
have a clock that is here that allows you five minutes. So thank you Mr. Watt, there
may be questions later, people who have questions or comments to make to please to
do so. It is five minutes and there is no clapping or booing, but we want to be respectful
of everybody’s opinions in this regard. We had a sheet that was up earlier outside to
speak and so I will go through the list first and then anyone else in the gallery who has
any questions to ask or comments to make to do so. The first person is Blair Trousdell.
Welcome Mr. Trousdell!
City of North Vancouver
Re: Bylaw No. 8052
Vancouver Pacific Development Corp./
Wensley Architecture Ltd., 845 Marine Drive
Page 4 of 22
Public Hearing
December 14, 2009
Mr. Blair Trousdell, 211 Rondaval Cr., North Vancouver
Your Worship, Councillors, I am here tonight as a longtime resident of North Vancouver,
both in the City and District, and as Vice-Chair of West Coast Alternatives, and more
specifically, to offer a comment in support of Mr. Watt’s character and his sense of
social responsibility.
As you have heard, we at West Coast face a critical moment in our history. We are now
within days of a decision that could see the closing of our doors by the end of January
2010 and with that the end of more than 30 years of service to our community. A
service that has saved lives and has been an important factor in keeping many families
together in our community. Since the details of our current financial situation were
made public a few weeks ago we have seen a tremendous show of support, largely
emotional and ranging from sympathy to, in some cases, outrage.
Mr. Watt is one of the few, in fact, one of the only, who has been able to offer a tangible
solution to our problem, a means of ensuring the continuation of our organization
through the establishment of a sustainable source of funding. He has been instrumental
in the development of a program that, as you have heard, we have captured under the
banner “Put Your Two Cents In” that will provide those in the liquor industry both locally
and ultimately we hope, throughout the Province, with the opportunity to financially
support the critical services that we offer and equally important, to distance us for
reliance on the financial support of governments at all levels.
Mr. Watt’s involvement and his ongoing leadership are critical to this project and in turn,
critical to the success and long term viability of our organization and he has offered this
without condition.
I want to thank you for this opportunity to publicly acknowledge Mr. Watt for his strong
sense of caring and his social responsibility and for the opportunity for me to “Put My
Two Cents In”. Thank you.
Mayor Mussatto
Thank you for your presentation Mr. Trousdell. I appreciated that. The next speaker is
Dean Payne. Welcome Mr. Payne!
Mr. Dean Payne, 3651 McEwen Avenue, North Vancouver
Your Worship, I am a business owner in the area as well and my argument is quite
straight forward in that I think that we do not need another place to purchase beer, wine
or liquor in the area on Marine. It is just too saturated adding one more to that strip and
it is pretty straightforward. While Mr. Watt and his group seem global business people
with good intentions I think that we just do not need another outlet. That is all I wanted
to say publicly. Thanks for your time.
City of North Vancouver
Re: Bylaw No. 8052
Vancouver Pacific Development Corp./
Wensley Architecture Ltd., 845 Marine Drive
Page 5 of 22
Public Hearing
December 14, 2009
Mayor Mussatto
Thank you very much Mr. Payne. The next speaker we have on the list is Mr. David
Varga. Welcome Mr. Varga!
Mr. David Varga, 1709 – 145 St. George’s Avenue, North Vancouver
Your Worship and Councillors, I would like to oppose this bylaw for the same reasons
that Dean Payne has mentioned. If you look at the map from the staff presentation
there are quite a few liquor stores within that area and in quite close proximity. If you
also look where the Pemberton Liquor Store is, it is also, I feel it serves an area as well.
There is saturation along Marine Drive and I do not feel there is a need for another
liquor store. Thank you for your time.
Mayor Mussatto
Thank you very much for your input Mr. Varga. The next speaker we have is Mr. Colin
Metcalfe. Welcome Mr. Metcalfe!
Mr. Colin Metcalfe, 1970 Pemberton Avenue, North Vancouver
Your Worship, I have lived in the neighbourhood for many years and I am actually the
current Chair of our Neighbourhood Association but tonight I am here as a concerned
private citizen. Before I begin I want to thank you Your Worship and Council for the
completed sidewalk along MacKay going into the neighbourhood. It is a great
improvement and with the Touchstone Development now in place it services the small
children that go up to Pemberton Heights Elementary School quite well and now people
do not have to walk up the road to get there, so thank you for doing that.
My concern is not that we have, Provincial or private Liquor Stores to the north of us in
Edgemont Village and to the south of us along Marine Drive in multiple locations. My
concern is simply with the proliferation of such facilities especially along Marine Drive. It
started with one provincial liquor store at Capilano Mall a few years ago. Today we
have multiple outlets all along Marine Drive.
The new mall at 845 Marine does not need another liquor store to add to the long list of
current outlets if there is one less than, I am told, a few hundred metres away at
Taylor’s Crossing. It is my belief that we have enough choice from the full service
facilities in Capilano Mall, to the multiple private outlets along Marine Drive, to the
largest Wine Store in BC, I am told. We are all very well served so to speak. In fact,
some would suggest, over served.
I would ask that this amendment be reconsidered. I am all for competition but enough is
enough. By permitting another outlet here you have put into jeopardy existing
businesses like Taylor’s Crossing, who are doing their best to be excellent corporate
citizens, in tough economic times.
City of North Vancouver
Re: Bylaw No. 8052
Vancouver Pacific Development Corp./
Wensley Architecture Ltd., 845 Marine Drive
Page 6 of 22
Public Hearing
December 14, 2009
Finally, let me remind you that we will no doubt see other Liquor Outlets attempting to
spring up along Marine Drive as the new developments are built between Capilano
Road and MacKay and we must ensure that this part of our community is not turned into
another Kelowna with liquor stores and outlets within crawling distance of each other.
I heard tonight, a very worthy campaign, the one that Mr. Watt was talking about “Put
Your Two Cents In”. It seems like a very worthy one. I would certainly encourage all
the organizers to connect with any and all of the existing establishments already doing
business in the neighbourhood and ask that they start taking part in such a worthy
cause. Thank you for your time.
Mayor Mussatto
Thank you very much Mr. Metcalfe. The next speaker I have is Mr. Brian Riedlinger.
Welcome this evening Mr. Riedlinger!
Mr. Brian Riedlinger, 2583 Swinburne Avenue, North Vancouver
Mayor Mussatto and City Council Members, I am Brian Riedlinger, co-owner of Sailor
Hagar’s Pub and Liquor Store. Our liquor store is a Licensed Retail Store located at
221 West 1st Street in the City of North Vancouver next to our pub at 86 Semisch
Avenue. I am speaking to you this evening as well on behalf of my mother Ruth, and
my brother Allan, who are also co-owners, who cannot attend because they are at our
employee Christmas Party tonight.
We have operated our business for the past 23 years at this location. Thank you for this
opportunity this evening to express my concerns regarding the application by the
Pemberton Station to move their Licensed Retail Store from the District of North
Vancouver into the City of North Vancouver.
Recently, the City of North Vancouver Council rescinded a bylaw it had in place that
would have prevented this application from moving forward to a Public Hearing. This
bylaw was unanimously approved by City Council in January 2004 and from my
recollection City Council and staff put a great deal of thought, discussion and
preparation prior to approving it.
Without this bylaw in place North Vancouver puts itself once more in a very vulnerable
position that will have the potential to have a negative impact on some businesses and
residences in our community. This bylaw had three components. One component did
not allow a Licensed Retail Store from locating in the City of North Vancouver if it had its
Liquor Primary License, its pub, located in another jurisdiction. This prevented a
potential flood of applications from Liquor Primary Licenses from surrounding
municipalities, mainly Vancouver, wanting to operate their Licensed Retail Stores in the
City of North Vancouver.
City of North Vancouver
Re: Bylaw No. 8052
Vancouver Pacific Development Corp./
Wensley Architecture Ltd., 845 Marine Drive
Page 7 of 22
Public Hearing
December 14, 2009
The City of Vancouver and the municipality of Burnaby has made it extremely difficult
for a Licensed Retail Store to find an approved location so they looked to the North
Shore. According to the Provincial Government, at this time, they could move their
store a distance of five kilometres from their Liquor Primary. City Council felt there were
enough Licensed Retail Stores already located in the City of North Vancouver.
The concern is even greater now, for on December 2, 2009 the Provincial Government
made changes to the regulations for Licensed Retail Stores so that now a Licensed
Retail Store does not have to be associated with a Liquor Primary License and can
operate as an independent entity. With this, it can now move anywhere within a five
kilometre radius of its current location subject to the bylaws of the designated
municipality. This increased flexibility means the City could expect even more
applications in the future.
Large companies from BC like the In-House group of companies and from Alberta like
Liquor Depot, own several Licensed Retail Stores in the Lower Mainland and are
constantly searching for new Liquor Stores to purchase and then relocate them to better
business locations, which include other municipalities.
The Licensed Retail Store located next to Save-On Mall at 1433 Marine Drive and the
one closed now across the street are clear examples. These two stores owned by the
In-House group of companies and instead of locating in Vancouver where their Liquor
Primary Licenses were located, moved their licenses to the District of North Vancouver.
They were only able to do this because North Vancouver District did not have a bylaw in
place to prevent it from occurring.
Another component of the bylaw that City Council rescinded restricted a Licensed Retail
Store from locating within one mile of an existing one. From my recollection, City
Council felt that too many liquor outlets in close proximity to each other was both not
necessary and may have a negative impact on our community.
As you are aware, the current Provincial regulation uses a distance guideline between
Licensed Retail Stores of 500 metres or half a kilometre as a minimum distance
measure of control. Each municipality may have a greater distance between Licensed
Retail Stores depending on its own community needs.
In conclusion, I urge Mayor and Council not to approve this application by the
Pemberton Station Pub to move their Licensed Retail Store from the District of North
Vancouver into the City of North Vancouver for I believe, if allowed to move, the action
by City Council will set a precedent. With this it will open a door to a flood of other
applications from Licensed Retail Stores and other municipalities wanting to move their
licenses into the City of North Vancouver.
City of North Vancouver
Re: Bylaw No. 8052
Vancouver Pacific Development Corp./
Wensley Architecture Ltd., 845 Marine Drive
Page 8 of 22
Public Hearing
December 14, 2009
As well, I urge Mayor and Council to reinstate the bylaw from 2004 that was recently
rescinded. With this bylaw in place, City Council can be assured once again that firstly,
they will not be bothered by applications from other Licensed Retail Stores from other
jurisdictions.
Councillor Trentadue briefly left and returned to the meeting.
Mayor Mussatto
Mr. Riedlinger have you got much more to go there?
Mr. Riedlinger
No, I will just go on.
Mayor Mussatto
Otherwise we can have you come back.
Mr. Riedlinger
Can I have two minutes?
Mayor Mussatto
No, not two minutes. Sorry, I will have to have you come back. We want to let
everybody have a chance of five minutes and I will put you on the list at the end. I am
sorry about that.
Mr. Riedlinger
It is okay.
Mayor Mussatto
But thank you. The next person I have on our list is Mr. John Fitzgerald.
Fitzgerald here? Welcome Mr. Fitzgerald!
Is Mr.
Mr. John Fitzgerald, 1535 St. George’s Avenue, North Vancouver
Thank you. I live at 1535 St. George’s Avenue. I have not lived in North Vancouver as
long as some people. I have only been here for the past six years but I have been a
patron at the establishment at the Avalon Brewing Company for the past three or four
years. I have been very impressed with the community programs that they have in
place there and the rapport that they have built with their customers.
I am very impressed to hear what Mr. Watt has done for the community as well and I
really hope he has continued success with these causes. But, at the risk of sounding
like a broken record, I feel that there are too many outlets that purvey spirits, alcohol
and wine in general, in that area. In an ideal world we would all have a good chunk of
land and area to do business in and not interfere with other people’s businesses but I do
not think that is the case and that is all I have to say.
City of North Vancouver
Re: Bylaw No. 8052
Vancouver Pacific Development Corp./
Wensley Architecture Ltd., 845 Marine Drive
Page 9 of 22
Public Hearing
December 14, 2009
Mayor Mussatto
Thank you very much for your comments Mr. Fitzgerald. The next speaker we have is
R.W. Crossley. Welcome Mr. Crossley!
Mr. R.W. Crossley, 1069 West 23rd Street, North Vancouver
Your Worship, Councillors, I have lived on the North Shore all my life and for the last 20
currently in the Pemberton Heights area, just up the hill from the proposed
development. Looking at the map on the wall there I think we are more than adequately
served by existing retail premises and I just do not think we need yet another one of
these outlets in the proximity of what we already have. Thank you.
Mayor Mussatto
Thank you Mr. Crossley. The next speaker we have is Mr. Don Maunders. Welcome!
Mr. Don Maunders, 310 E. St. James Road, North Vancouver
I have been loving being part of this community for the past 25 years. I have lived in the
City and have lived in the District. Thank you, Your Worship and Councillors, for the
opportunity to speak to you this evening. It is a rare opportunity that we get to come out
and speak on behalf of somebody that does so much for the community. I am really
here to speak about Cam Watt. The many good, sound, rational arguments in favour of
the proposal have already been sent to you. I have had a chance to read them myself.
I am a business consultant and work with a number of organizations so I think the
logical merits are important for you to consider. But I am here to really speak to the
nature of Cam Watt and what he brings uniquely to the business community and why I
think it is so powerful at this time, particularly in the evolution of our business
environment and of our community, so I would like a few minutes to speak to that.
First some background, I met Cam Watt about five years ago. My children attended
Carisbrooke and then Balmoral and then Carson Graham and I met Cam when he was
the coach here of the pack. I came to know him and witness what he was building
around him in terms of the powerful community of engaged parents at Balmoral and the
wonderful thing about Cam is he so powerfully leads by example in terms of the time
commitment that he puts it, the creativity, the energy that he brings that makes a
profound difference. So a lot of people, who will talk a good story, in terms of all that
should happen in our community but rarely have I had the opportunity to witness
somebody who has said so little but done so much in terms of the community.
His commitment for our community that we share is infectious so much so that you
could say he either convinced, hoodwinked or corralled me into becoming coach here at
Balmoral, which I was delighted to do for two years, and more recently have served with
Cam as the Co-Chair at Carson Graham as he mentioned.
City of North Vancouver
Re: Bylaw No. 8052
Vancouver Pacific Development Corp./
Wensley Architecture Ltd., 845 Marine Drive
Page 10 of 22
Public Hearing
December 14, 2009
Over the past five years I have had a chance to witness him and the fine nature of him
as a leader I truly have come to understand the term Community Leadership and that
Cam is, in every sense of those words, a community leader in the way that he has given
of his time, the way that he has given of his talents. You know, people can take their
talents and spend them on a lot of other things and it was inspiring to me to have
somebody choose to invest that into their community when they could have gone up
and done a lot of other things that would further themselves, their own business
interests.
I think it is just such a powerful example, week in, week out to see somebody showing
up for the School District who clearly who has a range of talents that could be served
doing other things more properly. But I think in Cam’s, if I looked inside his soul, it is
about profitably for the whole community and I think he is a great example in that
respect.
He has rallied the community to come together. He mentioned earlier this evening a
couple of examples, those were moments of true examples in our community where the
community came together about the future of those schools and the educational
opportunities and that is when you really got to see what his leadership was all about.
And probably the most demonstrability, his spark, his energy and his creativity have
been transformational in terms of the net fundraising that has gone on in those schools
that have gone back into those schools for the betterment of education in our students.
So I think that is particularly powerful given the gap that keeps growing in education and
funding. It is no exaggeration that through Cam’s leadership, the educational
opportunities and what it is like to be a student in those schools in North Vancouver
have been significantly and powerfully altered because of his presence.
You know I also thought, as I stand back and look at his record of service to the
community, I have heard him speak many times on behalf of our schools and on behalf
of our students and community. I have yet to hear him ask for anything in return and I
think it is an issue to bear in mind that Cam does all these things for the community on
top of a very active, very busy business life and family life and crew on top of that so it
has to fit within that role
So I am obviously here to suggest that our City Council support the application that
Cam is making. I absolutely see him as the kind of business person that we need more
of in our community. He mentioned his involvement in District 319 in the Downtown
Eastside and several of the related neighbourhood projects in that area and I think they
speak very contemporarily to the kind of fusing and community and commerce that we
need as the solution in the way forward in our communities.
The tight economic conditions and tax, I think, are here for a while and it is critical that
we have people that can do that. So we really need people who can build businesses
but we need people who can do more than that with their creativity and their openness
that they can contribute in another way to make this a better place to be.
City of North Vancouver
Re: Bylaw No. 8052
Vancouver Pacific Development Corp./
Wensley Architecture Ltd., 845 Marine Drive
Page 11 of 22
Public Hearing
December 14, 2009
Saying yes to Cam Watt’s proposal is inviting a richer blend of commerce and
community to the table and I do not think you could find a better example of that than an
opportunity to provide renewed support for West Coast Alternatives.
Mayor Mussatto
Mr. Maunders, do you have any more to add to that?
Mr. Maunders
Thank you very much.
Mayor Mussatto
Thank you very much for your presentation. That is the end of people that signed up
earlier so I am going to ask by show of hands. Yes sir, and I will go to the next one over
there. If you would not mind coming down and welcome!
Mr. Steve Garland, 1753 Layton Drive, North Vancouver
Good Evening. I am speaking to the character of Mr. Watt. I have had the distinct
pleasure of having worked with Mr. Watt now for in excess of five years as a Principal of
Balmoral and now at Carson Graham Secondary School. I can speak as a person
within the community who has benefited. My communities have benefited from the film
and profit work of Mr. Watt and I echo Mr. Maunder’s sentiments. I have never in five
plus years asked, or heard rather, of Mr. Watt asking anything of himself. He has only
given of himself. It is for the betterment of our community, first at Balmoral and now at
Carson.
I think about his legacy, his daughter, his youngest daughter, graduates from my school
in June of 2010 and will leave a massive void in our school community, particularly in
my community school community. Because the work of Mr. Maunder and Mr. Watt, I
believe, is actually going to change the face of what has happened within our School
District for the next 25, 30, 40, 50 years. It is through their efforts and efforts of the
parent community that they were able to rally, that I believe that we were successful in
having the Provincial Government provide funds for a replacement school for this
community. We are looking at breaking ground in about May of next year on what will
be a first class facility, again, in my opinion, truly due to the efforts of Mr. Watts and
others. They have worked on behalf of the kids, the teaching staff, the School District
itself and the parents of this community.
I am speaking in favour and I hope that Council and Your Worship will consider Mr.
Watt’s application, transference of an existing Liquor License to the location and I wish
him well in his endeavors and I hope that Council consider him. Thank you.
Mayor Mussatto
Thank you very much Mr. Garland. Sir, if you would not mind coming down to the
microphone and welcome!
City of North Vancouver
Re: Bylaw No. 8052
Vancouver Pacific Development Corp./
Wensley Architecture Ltd., 845 Marine Drive
Page 12 of 22
Public Hearing
December 14, 2009
Mr. Jody Anton, 440 West Esplanade, North Vancouver
As a member of the Squamish Nation I oppose having another Liquor Store on Marine
Drive. We already have one at Sailor Hagar’s, we have one on Esplanade. We do not
need another Liquor Store on Marine Drive. It has already oversaturated, it is too close
of a walk, it is close to home, it is only 2½ blocks from where I live at. I have been
hearing a lot of people talking about community tonight. I want to talk about my
community. We already have enough Liquor Stores where we can purchase beverages
as beer and liquor and fine Tequila’s and Whisky’s. So I am here to say I oppose
another Liquor Store.
Mayor Mussatto
Thank you very much Mr. Anton. Yes sir, and then I will come to yours in just a second.
First, the gentlemen in the blue shirt. Welcome this evening!
Mr. Roy McGuire, 1318 Tyrol Road, West Vancouver
Your Worship, Members of Council, I am also a member of the Board of West Coast
Alternatives and I think you already know the passion of some of the presentations
about what this organization means to the communities on the North Shore. Having
lived here on the North Shore for over 20 years I think that the loss of that entity would
be a major, major situation that would be negative in our community and we should
attempt to look at every avenue to have it stay.
It was interesting in some of the presentations that a number of people who have like
businesses in the area may be opposed to another business and all I could really say
about that when I look at the makeup of our communities, if competition was, in this free
enterprise, something to be feared then you would not have a great Automall in the City
where a collection of auto manufacturers and their agents ply their wares and have
people come to their premises and see the competition and choose their brands and so
on. We would not have major grocery stores within blocks of each other and in some
cases, across the street. And if we all love Tim Horton’s coffee the way I love it, we
would not have Tim Horton’s on lots of corners across this country in very close
proximity to each other. So I think competition is probably a good thing.
Several of the speakers spoke about additional licenses but a few spoke to the move of
a license and that is what this is. It is not an additional premise in the community; it is a
move of one from a location fairly close to where it would find itself on Marine.
But what I really want to speak to is a longer association that I have had with Mr. Watt. I
have known Cam for close to 15 years. I have served with him on the Board of another
fine organization, the Mel Jr. & Marty Zajac Foundation and in that regard I came to see
his energy, his commitment and his integrity.
City of North Vancouver
Re: Bylaw No. 8052
Vancouver Pacific Development Corp./
Wensley Architecture Ltd., 845 Marine Drive
Page 13 of 22
Public Hearing
December 14, 2009
We as a Board, the Board Members, there was Mr. Watt; myself; Sandra Edward
Lawson; Sandra St. Germaine, as an Honorary Board Member; His Worship, the former
Mayor of Vancouver, Larry Campbell, as an Honorary Member; the patron of the
organization, Mr. Bob Hope and after his passing, his wife, Dolores, still sits as the
Patron of that Foundation, so I saw the work that Cam did there with that Foundation.
We built a long term vision of having a ranch for children at Stave Lake; 350 to 400
children with critical illness enjoy that environment every year on a pro-bona basis to go
and experience real life for possibly the first time in their lives. So I really want to say
that this is a man who follows up in within the community in a manner that few that I
know have, and he has been a member of this community for 50 years and I think we
need more business people like Mr. Watt to come to this arena.
The Two Cents campaign was a collaborative effort that came together partly through
our Executive Directors and our Boards, our Board Chairman, put it together and Mr.
Watt came happily on board to help us take that campaign to others in the liquor
industry in our communities and in British Columbia.
Alcohol abuse is a serious, serious blight that we all feel that we all feel deeply about
but this type of campaign, the “Put Your Two Cents In”, helps us to just have those
people who are in the industry give back in some way and I am proud to say that Mr.
Watt took a leadership role in that and hopefully that would be considered in your
considerations tonight and your generosity. Thank you very much, Your Worship.
Mayor Mussatto
Thank you very much Mr. McGuire. Sir if you wouldn’t mind, yes, thank you. Welcome
this evening!
Mr. Jack Farley, 2368 Bellevue Avenue, West Vancouver
I guess I have known Cam for 40 years, how about that one. I was former Chair for
the BC Sports Hall of Fame and the BC Sports Hall of Fame Foundation and we
brought Cam on board as another volunteer and Cam did a wonderful job for us so I
know that Cam from a volunteer community person is really doing a great thing for the
community of Greater Vancouver actually.
When we learned of the cutback in our funding we started to put a business plan
together because it was so important to protect the Kids First Program and this is the
Program which deals with kids that are two years of age to 12 years of age who
unfortunately have parents that are either alcohol problems or drug problems etc. so we
wanted to put together a business plan to at least protect that particular group.
In looking at all the opportunities for additional funding it came to our attention that Cam
was applying for a private Liquor License here in North Vancouver so I contacted Cam
and we talked about it and this is when this idea of the Two Cents Program came into
being and we are going full blast on that.
City of North Vancouver
Re: Bylaw No. 8052
Vancouver Pacific Development Corp./
Wensley Architecture Ltd., 845 Marine Drive
Page 14 of 22
Public Hearing
December 14, 2009
As a matter of fact Cam will be talking to other members in the liquor industry getting
their support, but more importantly this will be a volunteer situation of payback time, if
you like, of not only the private Liquor Stores but the pubs and hopefully the restaurants
as well. And this plan, if it is successful, I think Council here can take credit for
supporting this initiative because this could very well spread to the Greater Vancouver
area and throughout the Province. We feel very, very excited that this could happen so
I am hoping that you will support Cam’s application which will allow us to have Cam
work on our behalf, in getting the rest of the liquor industry together and hopefully
spreading throughout the Province. So you, Council Members, could very well be part
of a very interesting and successful initiative. Thank you very much.
Mayor Mussatto
Thank you very much Mr. Farley for your presentation. Are there other members of the
gallery who have any questions to ask or comments to make please just raise your
hand? Once. Yes, and a good welcome to former Mayor Sharp. Welcome this
evening!
Ms. Barbara Sharp, 518 East 18th Street, North Vancouver
Good evening Mayor and Council. As I am sure you are aware I am here to speak on
behalf of West Coast Alternatives Society and therefore Mr. Cam Watt and his
application before you this evening. I do not think I can over emphasize the importance
that this application has for the Society that I have been a member of for the past few
years. Without his support we would definitely be closing our doors at the end of
January and that would be a significant loss to this community and the entire North
Shore, that serves families in need with all the addiction issues and the children of the
Kids First Program.
I think it is imperative that before you wave off that the concept of having another Liquor
Store in the City of North Vancouver, even though it is not an extra Liquor Store on the
North Shore, that you really do take to heart what could happen potentially if we cannot
move ahead with this process and this support from this particular business owner. We
have a very innovative and creative idea that nobody else has come up with.
Governments like yourselves, like Provincial and Federal governments, are constantly
coming to the community and constantly coming to people that want grants in front of
you and saying why don’t you go out there and seek other ways to get money instead of
coming to us from the taxpayers pocket all of the time. We have done that and Mr. Watt
has helped us get to that point.
I really, really, really want to see Council support this application this evening because
what you will be supporting is the people that you represent in the communities, the
families, the children, all those people out there that needs the services that we have
been providing in West Coast Alternative for 30 years and it would be a very big change
to see that loss in this community. So please do give this absolutely serious
consideration when you cast your vote this evening and make sure that you know what
you will be doing if you turn it down. Thank you.
City of North Vancouver
Re: Bylaw No. 8052
Vancouver Pacific Development Corp./
Wensley Architecture Ltd., 845 Marine Drive
Page 15 of 22
Public Hearing
December 14, 2009
Mayor Mussatto
If I could just get your address, I think I missed it at the beginning?
Ms. Sharp
I am 518 East 18th in the City of North Vancouver.
Mayor Mussatto
Thank you very much. Are there any other members of the gallery who have any
questions to ask or comments to make, please just raise your hand. Yes, oh yes, I am
going to come back to you, thank you Mr. Riedlinger. I will go once, twice, thrice. Mr.
Riedlinger, sorry, you are welcome to come back down again. Thank you, sorry, I did
say you could come back a second time and thank you for reminding me; I did have you
on my list here.
Mr. Riedlinger
I just wanted to make one more point and I am not afraid to say this. It is about
competition. I know it was brought up out here in the gallery but I am going to make my
point anyways. Neighbourhood pubs are part of our community and have been for
many years now. We at Sailor Hagar’s have worked hard for the past 23 years to
ensure our establishment is a respectable social gathering place for people in our
community and we have been given a great deal back to the community in many ways
over the years as well. However, our reality is that our neighbourhood pub, similar to
most others, has not been a financially viable business for the past five years.
This is a result of changes made by the BC Government that relaxed drinking
regulations combined with the lack of enforcement by the BC Government for
restaurants. As a small business operator, we depend upon our Licensed Retail Store
to remain in business. Each additional Licensed Liquor Store that moves into the City of
North Vancouver has a negative impact upon our sales and the impact increases the
closer an additional store locates to us.
Furthermore, with the number of private liquor stores, private wine stores and
government liquor stores currently operating in our community we do not believe it is
necessary to have more Liquor Retail Outlets in the City, both from a business and
residential perspective. Thank you.
Mayor Mussatto
Thank you, Mr. Riedlinger. I am going to go back to the gallery one more time. Are
there any members who have anymore questions to ask or comments to make please
just raise your hand? Once, twice, thrice, and I am going to go to members of Council
who have any questions. Councillor Fearnley!
Councillor R.J. Fearnley
I am wondering if there is somebody here either on staff or perhaps somebody, if we
could allow the indulgence in the audience to explain this “Put in Your Two Cents?
City of North Vancouver
Re: Bylaw No. 8052
Vancouver Pacific Development Corp./
Wensley Architecture Ltd., 845 Marine Drive
Page 16 of 22
Public Hearing
December 14, 2009
Mayor Mussatto
The Program I believe is from West Coast Alternatives.
Councillor Fearnley
I am just wondering if somebody could, if we have got somebody who could explain it, I
would like to hear about it.
Mayor Mussatto
Certainly. Mr. Watt, are you able to explain the program? Thank you.
Mr. Watt
Your Worship through to Councillor Fearnley, “Put Your Two Cents In” will mean many
things to many different operators. It is a model that can work off whatever you feel that
your two cents can be.
So initially it was a portion of an actual dollar sale but recognizing that that may be
limiting to businesses that would be smaller, than it was adopted that it would be “Put
Your Two Cents In” and it would be whatever your two cents could be and by putting
your two cents in, you might decide that putting your two cents in as a publican, as a
restaurateur might be holding some sort of fundraising for the evening.
Some may decide, Councillor Fearnley that it relates to sales. It really is anything
where someone can put their two cents in and we certainly like the slogan and we like
the fact that the slogan is not limited and broadens how you can “Put Your Two Cents
In”.
Councillor Fearnley
Okay, I guess a natural question is how does this relate to your specific operation?
Mr. Watt
Well mine will be related to a dollar contribution and it will also, as I have demonstrated
in the past, relate to fundraising activities so where with a collection or a team of people
we have been successful in raising hard dollars.
Councillor Fearnley
And the money is going to?
Mr. Watt
The money is going to West Coast Alternatives and it is going to Kids First.
Councillor Fearnley
Thank you very much.
Mr. Watt
Thank you Councillor Fearnley.
City of North Vancouver
Re: Bylaw No. 8052
Vancouver Pacific Development Corp./
Wensley Architecture Ltd., 845 Marine Drive
Page 17 of 22
Public Hearing
December 14, 2009
Mayor Mussatto
Councillor Bookham!
Councillor P.J. Bookham
Thank you Your Worship, through you to Mr. Watt. It has been suggested that,
particularly by the last speaker, that a rejection of your application tonight would be fatal
or potentially fatal to West Coast Alternatives and their program, Kids First. Could you
comment on that?
Mr. Watt
Your Worship through to Councillor Bookham. Councillor Bookham, it is the severity of
the challenge at West Coast where the funding has been lost so very quickly so we
have to work quickly to have this model go into place.
Now I think certainly there are some things within West Coast Alternatives where they
have a little bit of latitude, related to the fact that they own their own property. Where I
have been involved with foundations previously, certainly if you have the opportunity to
own your own property, that gave you some latitude to put a new program in place so
they have that grace but no one should be mistaken that the situation is not critical.
Time is of the essence. We need to have this plan starting to work in January and
basically it is take Christmas time off and come back and hit the ground running.
Councillor Bookham
Thank you for that. I guess I would like to you expand on it a little bit because I heard
you say, in response to Councillor Fearnley, that you are prepared to make a cash
contribution to this Program and to assist in an ongoing fundraising effort through this
“Put Your Two Cents In”, which is quite catchy and potentially successful. I guess what
I want to know is, is your cash contribution and your support for the “Put Your Two
Cents In” Program contingent upon a successful rezoning application tonight?
Mr. Watt
Yes.
Councillor Bookham
Can you explain why?
Mayor Mussatto
Yes, the move in the store where it is currently located, despite the fact that some may
feel with the traffic on the Low Road that it would be a good location, it is not a
particularly good location for a Licensed Retail Store so that is number one. Number
two is that it is moving into a shopping mall and obviously with the new Thrifty Foods
next door, unless we are completely mistaken, we believe that we will have greater
success there. The greater success there correlates into the ability of contributing more
to the “Put Your Two Cents In” Program.
City of North Vancouver
Re: Bylaw No. 8052
Vancouver Pacific Development Corp./
Wensley Architecture Ltd., 845 Marine Drive
Page 18 of 22
Public Hearing
December 14, 2009
But again, it is a combination of not only success in that location which we do not feel
will be challenged, it is also starting the work of the gathering the industry and as well to
the fundraising activities and I think demonstrated and whether it was the Zajac
Foundation and money that we raised there, whether it was for the school programs on
the North Shore, whether it was for the BC Sports Hall of Fame, collectively as a team
we have had success.
Councillor Bookham
Thank you.
Mayor Mussatto
Councillor Keating!
Councillor C.R. Keating
Thank you very much Your Worship and through you to Mr. Watt. I am holding in my
hand, a letter that was part of the package here dated November 19, 2009 and it is
addressed to the Pemberton Pub Ltd. But it is not addressed to you. It is addressed to
Gary Troll. Could you clarify for Council’s benefit and through you, Your Worship, what
your relationship is to this application and why it might say Gary Troll here and not
Cameron Watt?
Mr. Watt
Yes, Your Worship through to Councillor Keating. Thank you for asking that question.
Mr. Troll had hoped to be here this evening and he certainly wanted to have all of you
know that he completely supports this Program. Mr. Troll’s wife sadly is in Intensive
Care at Lions Gate Hospital. The relationship there is that I am buying the License from
Mr. Troll so in essence it is Mr. Troll’s License today and as it moves to the new location
it will be my License.
Councillor Keating
So through you, Your Worship, you have an offer to purchase contingent upon the
purchase of the License, contingent upon the outcome of this process?
Mr. Watt
The offer to purchase is such that it gives a little bit of latitude, but yes, it is critical to
move the location. Now what you also should know is that Mr. Troll is completely
supportive of the Kids First and West Coast Alternatives Program.
Councillor Keating
Your Worship, if I might, just for clarity, is through you, Your Worship, is the offer to
purchase the liquor license contingent upon the outcome of this process in any way?
City of North Vancouver
Re: Bylaw No. 8052
Vancouver Pacific Development Corp./
Wensley Architecture Ltd., 845 Marine Drive
Page 19 of 22
Public Hearing
December 14, 2009
Mr. Watt
It certainly, if we were to be successful this evening, and please I am not trying to avoid
your question, anticipates the move, if that helps you.
Councillor Keating
Your Worship, if I might, one more time, I am not concerned about the move, I am
concerned about the relationship between the offer to purchase and the move.
Mr. Watt
Well the offer to purchase anticipates the move to Marine Drive.
Councillor Keating
Thank you very much Your Worship, I got it now.
Mayor Mussatto
Councillor Heywood!
Councillor R.G. Heywood
Thank you Your Worship. I was advised by senior members on Council in previous
meetings that we were not supposed to sell zoning but in this respect is there a
contractual relationship between Kids First and the applicant for this application?
Mr. Watt
Yes there is.
Councillor Heywood
And so is there a contractual agreement that will essentially represent a contribution of
2% revenue to the charity?
Mr. Watt
It is not 2%, it is two cents. So it is a measurement of whatever you choose the two
cents to be of and the answer to your question is yes.
Councillor Heywood
Okay. Is this a net profit contribution or a gross revenue contribution?
Mr. Watt
It is anticipated, in my particular case, to be a gross sales contribution.
Councillor Heywood
Okay, thank you.
Mr. Watt
And I have tried to give definition, through Your Worship to Councillor Heywood, some
idea of what that would relate to.
City of North Vancouver
Re: Bylaw No. 8052
Vancouver Pacific Development Corp./
Wensley Architecture Ltd., 845 Marine Drive
Page 20 of 22
Public Hearing
December 14, 2009
Mayor Mussatto
Mr. Watt, I just want to follow up with the Kids First Program. Do you know where the
funding currently comes from now for that Program?
Mr. Watt
For the Kids First Program?
Mayor Mussatto
Yes, I know you are not with West Coast Alternatives.
Mr. Watt
Your Worship, I do not think that I am the best person to ask the specifics of that and I
am sorry.
Mayor Mussatto
Okay Mr. Podsadowski. Welcome Mr. Podsadowski!
Mr. Alan Podsadowski, 117 – 3721 Delbrook Place, North Vancouver
The Kids First Program we started in 1995 and it is a, it all comes from our fundraising
efforts and that includes everything from municipal grants from the three municipalities
totaling about $15,000.00. It involves golf tournaments and charity events. We have
had contributions from the Steve Nash Foundation, BC Lottery Corporation has been a
regular contributor to that, as they are to gambling, with gambling problems, they
contribute to that as well and that is, it is all our own efforts that we have done that.
Mayor Mussatto
And have you gotten any funding from Mr. Watt or the Pemberton Beer and Wine
Store?
Mr. Podsadowski
Not at this point but we are anticipating. The effort that we are talking about, the
fundraising campaign that we are going to be promoting and trying to take, not just
across the North Shore but across the Province, would be quite substantial and our
feeling is that it could really revolutionize the way funding is provided for these services.
Mayor Mussatto
Thank you very much for that. Now are there any other questions for the other
members of Council? I see none and then Ms. Dowey, your next item then please.
Ms. Dowey
A motion to conclude the Public Hearing Your Worship.
Mayor Mussatto
Councillor Fearnley!
City of North Vancouver
Re: Bylaw No. 8052
Vancouver Pacific Development Corp./
Wensley Architecture Ltd., 845 Marine Drive
Page 21 of 22
Public Hearing
December 14, 2009
Councillor Fearnley
So moved.
Mayor Mussatto
Councillor Clark!
Councillor Clark
Seconded.
Mayor Mussatto
Any discussion? All those in favour? Opposed? It is carried unanimously.
Moved by Councillor Fearnley, seconded by Councillor Clark
THAT the Public Hearing conclude.
CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY
The Public Hearing concluded at 8:33 p.m.
Certified a true and accurate transcript of the Public Hearing
Original signed by
Sandra E. Dowey, City Clerk
December 21, 2010
Date
City of North Vancouver
Re: Bylaw No. 8052
Vancouver Pacific Development Corp./
Wensley Architecture Ltd., 845 Marine Drive
Page 22 of 22
Public Hearing
December 14, 2009