“Is Healthcare a Right?”
Date: Tuesday, October 1, 2013 5:30 p.m.
Location: Sedona Public Library
Facilitated by: Dr. John Devlin, NAU Franke College of Business
Attendance: 15
Society and Citizens and Cost

In countries that have different healthcare than the U.S. is it better?
Who is qualified to say?

Why is it cheaper in other countries than U.S.? What accounts for the difference in cost? – Many
things, it is difficult to say. Options put forth:

Perhaps U.S. system is a bit more bureaucratic, and this costs more.

In Medicare- overhead is not much of total budget where in all other healthcare set-ups it’s
more.

In Europe doctors are salaried – In U.S. Cleveland Clinic, Mayo Clinic are also salaried and the
costs coming from these healthcare institutions are lower than the national average.

Healthcare is for-profit in the U.S.

People who do not have Health insurance go to emergency room. If they do not pay the bill,
someone has to and prices go up for insurance.
Medical Care

France pays half of what the U.S. and they are healthier. If there was a cost- effectiveness we
would see a correlation – i.e. healthcare in the US would be twice/three times better than other
places.

Some Medical care reaches to the point Extortion “When you’re really sick, it is hard to say ‘well
that’s a bit too much to pay” though we all do this (weigh the cost and the threat) --- is this heartburn or a heart attack. Permission to treat form equals a contract to pay. No one wants to feel they
are in jeopardy.
Right meaning required or provided?

Car insurance is compulsory because you assume a responsibility when you drive. Compulsory
seatbelt laws. This is a similar reason to have health insurance; you get sick and go to ER instead of
having a regular physician and more money is now being spent and will have to be paid by others.

Children are a consideration as well . Someone could die who didn’t have to and leave behind kids
to be wards of the state.

Prisoners get healthcare in Prisons because it would be considered cruel and unusual punishment,
can a comparison be made here with others?
Efficacy or/and Rights

Is it about efficacy or about rights? Can we have both – would a more inclusive broader healthcare
for all be more efficient?

What if the government controlled healthcare is most efficient but because of a person’s values they
still are against the centralization lying with the government.

Is everyone has the same insurance would some fear not get very best.

Medicare (automatic when someone turns 65) –is the same insurance – but the people have choices

Medicare pays 80% of healthcare but you can buy supplements and 44.3 million people in the
U.S. are on Medicare (total pop. In U.S. is 308 million).
Freedom of Fear

Fear of healthcare being ‘controlled’ – i.e people want freedom to choose.

Medicare seems to be working well with many people, now more people will be in that mold and how
is this taking away from their freedom?

Negative freedom = leave me alone freedom/ the freedom to do as you will.

Positive Freedom = Freedom to achieve one’s full potential (having access/resources made available to make that possible) Marxist- “we’re going to force them to be free”. We’re going to give them
positive freedom.
Medical Care and Rights

Are we speaking as weather it is a right – being good or does good mean it is profitable for the provider?

If it is framed as a moral issue or a right, this seems to trump everything else.

How can people who need medical care be removed from a medical care plan? How can we bring
down costs but increase quality?

Charges in hospitals can be negotiated, and most people do not know this.

Do people have any basic human rights? How about what ‘moral obligations’ to people.

If you think it morally wrong to do something --- you think it is also the opposite parties’ RIGHT to not
have that inflicted upon them i.e. morally wrong to murder = RIGHT of a person not to be murdered.

Rights change over time – right to burn witches, right to own a slave. We live in a culture a society
and we are constantly evolving, changing for improvement, amicably.

Moral right and legal right can be very different and this is what we usually end up tussling with.
Supported by Northern Arizona University College of Arts and Letters, Compassion
Project, McKenzie Endowment for Democracy and the Richard Wood Fund.