Rough Riders Revealed - Interviews with
Norman Tuck
Lunch With TA Terry Sanders
Quinn's Restaurant, Oakland, August 14
TS
Norman wants to know how many cars I have.
Let's see, I have five MGs, and an Alfa, plus a Ford
pickup truck and Cindy's Mercedes SUV.
the MGs are; a 1934 MG NA Four Seater, a 1938 TA
Roadster, a 1947 TC, a 1955 TF 1500,
and a 1952 Arnolt TD.
NT Which is your favorite?
TS
Which is my favorite? Ha Ha, That's a hard question.
I guess the TA is my favorite, because that is the first one I restored. It took me 5 years.
I've driven it all over the West; Durango, Calgary for a GOF, Whistler for a GOF, South many
times.
The nicest driving car that I have is the TF 1500 that really came out well, it has independent front
suspension.
The TC, the old black TC is also a really nice driving car. Thanks to Norman it has VW steering.
NT What's the favorite car that you've ever had?
TS
The favorite car that I've ever had. Well, 1948 Cadillac that I had for a month.
I can't remember if it was a fastback or a four door. I got it in a trade for a Checker that I had
for a while in Pittsburg. I used it for canoe camping. It had holes in the floor and you could see
the road from the inside, on both sides, from the interior. But the old Stove Bolt 6 just kept on
running.
But my favorite car is still the TA, and the TF.
NT What about the car that you restored with Phil Frank.
TS
The SA Tickford that Phil Frank and I restored over a 12-year period also had to be one of my
favorites. It came out so well, so nice. But it was a monster
to take care of.
NT What was the first car that you ever owned?
TS
My first car was a TD Black with red undersides.
When I was a Sophomore in College I got into a poker
game with a bunch of guys, and one of them had a TD, and
he lost big to me. He didn't want the TD because it smoked
so bad. He owed me 300 bucks, and he said, "if you give me 200 bucks I'll give you this TD. So I
borrowed 200 bucks from my mother and I bought the TD. That was in about 1957.
So every fall when I went back to college I would pull the collapsed piston out, put new rings on it,
and drive it for another year. Until I graduated and decided to get married and we traded it in on a
black MGA Coupe, with green leather, kind of unusual.
NT What's the first car you restored?
TA The first real restoration was the TA that I have
now. The car had been imported from England to
New Orleans. It had received a typical 60's type
British restoration. Skimmed with Bondo all over,
and the Bondo had cracked like an alligator. The
bottom panels had been wrapped in aluminum, the
inner wheel wells in the back were made out of
Paper Mache', and the original engine had been
swapped for a 1,275 Midget engine. The car had
sat in a carport for 17 years, and everything rusted.
When I tried to lift the body tub off of the frame it
broke in half. Even the angle irons had rusted.
When I finally got busy I ordered the body tub, rear fenders, a gas tank, doors and a scuttle from
Naylor Brothers in England. I got them shipped back with a bunch of BART motors that we were
buying from England.
NT Are you an engineer?
TS
Yes, I'm an electrical engineer. I later changed from pure engineering into project management. I
worked as an engineer for Westinghouse to start with, mostly on subway cars. I did a lot of work in
the New York area on a system called PATH.
I began testing the prototype of the BART propulsion system in New York. Eventually the
technology got transferred to BART. I was responsible for everything on a BART car except for the
body.
It was an exciting career. There never was a day that I didn't want to go to work. I know a lot of
people hate their job or their bosses. I always had pretty good bosses, and I always wanted to go to
work.
In the end I was mostly a salesman selling for Westinghouse. The last big project that I worked on
was the San Francisco Airport People Mover, where we got into a big fight with Mitsubishi, a
Japanese company, which is probably why I don't like Norman's Miata.
I'm still doing consulting work.
NT You were born in Louisiana. Were you the first in your family to go to college?
TS
My father had gone to Southeastern College for one semester, I think. He was a football player. He
had a scholarship, but the war came along and he dropped out. I don't know much about that story.
He died when I was 13. When I was 14 I had a kidney disease that laid me up for a year.
My uncle was the principal of my high school. One day he got me out of class and said, "Come on,
we're going to take a ride."
We got in his car and drove down to Hammond, Louisiana, about 30 miles south, to Southeastern
College, and he took me into the Office of Vocational Rehabilitation.
It turned out that the guy in the office gave me a bunch of aptitude tests. After the tests he said, "Son
you got the highest score on these tests that I have ever seen. We're going to send you to L.S.U."
I was completely shocked. "What do you mean, L.S.U.?"
We're going to give you a full scholarship and $50 a month spending money, and you’re going to go
to college, and you're going to become an engineer.
On the drive back, my uncle said, " That man played football with your father at Southeastern." So
there were obviously some strings pulled.
NT What town in Louisiana are you from?
TS
I'm from Kentwood, Louisiana. It has 2,500 people, its 100 miles north of New Orleans, and it’s the
home of Britney Spears.
NT Before you won a TD in the poker game, did you have any desire to own British Cars?
TS
I did, because when I was in high school I was building high fidelity Heath Kits and Dyna Kits for
people in town. It was the time that Hi Fi and stereo came out. One of my customers was an artist
guy, and he had a Jag XK 120, which I thought was the slickest thing I had ever seen.
He was the son of the druggist in town. He ended up running the drug store after he died. I think the
Jag was part of his image.
He drank a bottle of 10 High Bourbon every night. He eventually died of cirrhosis of the liver. I still
have some of his artwork. I don't think he knew anything about cars.
My father ran a Texaco station in town. My uncle was the Firestone Tire dealer. Our good friend
ran the parts store, and I had a part time job at the only radio/television repair shop in town. My
uncle, the High School principal, was a ham radio operator, and he got me into ham radio, and I
passed my general class test and got my ham license. I did ham radio quite a bit. This was all before
cars.
It was a lovely little town to grow up in. Wonderful friends, typical high school sock-hops and
all that. I played the bass drum in the Marching Band. And when I went to college I got dragooned
into playing the bass drum in the Military Marching Band, and then the College Marching Band,
which turned into a hell of a lot of work.
NT What's your favorite thing about the collector car hobby?
TS
I really enjoy restoring these cars, bringing them back to life, seeing them run again, rescuing them
from the grave. And, I enjoy touring and driving them. My wife, Cindy, does too.
She is enthusiastic, and she loves the TF that I did for her as a wedding present. She doesn't like my
Arnolt because it has a top on it, and she enjoys having her hair blow in the wind. She is one of the
few women I have met that doesn't mind having her hair blow in the wind.
NT If you could have any car, what would you want to have?
TS
That's a hard question. I'm not sure I would want anything different from what I have.
Every article I read has something about Ferraris. I'm not sure that I would take a Ferrari if someone
gave it to me. It's such a complicated piece of machinery. It must be a nightmare to take care of.
You've got to be rich.
I like the older cars. I wouldn't mind having a Blower Bentley.
I prefer the pre-war cars. I like the older MGs. A lot of my friends in the Sorry Safari Touring
Society have laid up their older cars and now drive MGBs. I just say, "Why?"
NT What is the Sorry Safari?
TS
It's one of the three MG clubs in the Bay Area (MG Owners Cub, The Sorry Safari, and the Rough
Riders), and the one I joined before discovering the Rough Riders. They promptly anointed me the
Newsletter Editor. I've been the Newsletter Editor for more than 25 years. Like Allan, I try not to do
any writing myself. I put in what other people write.
The Sorry Safari is all MGs, except that we have some members that also have other things. We
tour at least once a month. We get around 20 cars on a
tour.
NT Are there any Rough Riders in the Club?
TS
A few. Syd Saperstein has been the Treasurer for longer
than I've been the Editor. He recently said he wanted to
quit. And they are all in a dither about that.
All three MG Clubs in the Bay Area welcome everybody.
People can go on-line to find out about the events.
NT What about the sailing?
TS
When I lived in Pittsburgh I owned a racing sailboat, a 505 (5.05 meters long) made in England. I
learned to sail it on the Alleghany River. When you learn how to sail a 505 you can pretty much sail
anything. It is an unforgiving boat. The least little mistake will put you in the drink.
Cindy bought a Ranger 29, a 29-foot sailboat, and she just loves that boat. It's set up for cruising.
It's very comfortable for two people.
NT I understand that you are going to take the Arnolt to Monterey tomorrow.
TS
We are going to take my Bertone bodied Arnolt to the Concorso Italiano. We're going to show the
Bertone flag at the event, where Bertone is the featured Marque, and hang out with some friends of
ours. Jim Silva is also taking his Arnolt down there.
NT Do you have any advice for Rough Riders?
TS
I recommend the VW steering conversion.
There has been a thread on the T-ABC list in recent days about steering boxes. I switched over my
TA and my TC to VW steering boxes because of the beefy-ness of their drop arms (Pitman Arms).
That little, tiny drop arm on the TC has always worried me. You can magnaflux them, and hopefully
catch any crack, but I'm too old to have another wreck. The Bud Silver's kit has a much stronger
drop arm.
The steering sector shaft is another weak point. Allan Chalmers had one of those break on him.
I'm also very wary about the steering balls. You dare not over-tighten them (Note. Terry had been
involved in a serious accident due to the breaking of a steering ball in his TA).
The conversion also makes the car much easier to steer and takes care of a lot of other problems that
you might have.
TC owners should also replace their taillights with LEDs, Ha Ha. (Note: TA Terry makes and sells
LED conversions for "D" tail lights, but Norman does not get a commission on sales resulting from
this interview).
NT How do you feel about the judging of the cars?
TS
I'm not into judging. How can you judge a car?
There are so many upgrades that we made throughout the years. Supposedly, safety items should not
come into it, but almost any modification could be argued as a safety item.
There are those that are hung-up on originality, and that is their thing. And there are those that are
into show cars, and that's their thing. I take no pleasure in going to shows anymore, and sitting
around in the hot sun.
I'm doing the one in Monterey because Bertone is the featured marque. I'm hoping that our Bertone
bodied TD will get some respect down there. Unfortunately, it is overrun with the Ferrari guys and
their draped-in-gold car gals that are always fun to watch.
enjoy [driving] the cars. They are never going to drive like a modern car, and they are not supposed
to.
NT What is your next project?
TS
My next project is just maintaining the fleet, and perhaps selling off some of it, because I'm getting
to the point that I'm halfway to age 80. I don't know how much longer I can keep this up. Cleaning
the wheels on the Arnolt today half killed me.
NT How do you feel about the Rough Riders Club?
TS
The Rough Riders Club seems to be getting some younger and enthusiastic members. The Sonners
and the Shemps seem to be great additions to the Club. For some reason we keep attracting younger
people who are inheriting their fathers cars and bringing them to the shows.
Allan does a great job of keeping the Club going and seeing to the details. And, as Norman knows,
being the President is no strain or pain (Terry has been elected president several times)
.
NT Is there anything else that you would like to see in the interview?
TS
It's a great pleasure to belong to the Rough Riders, and to host the annual planning meeting.
When you retire from your working life and you don't have any hobbies or any other interests; my
experience is guys, especially, end up dead pretty soon. I'm overwhelmed with hobbies, and sailing,
and cars. So, I guess I'm blessed in that way.
And I have good friends. That's what it's all about. As they say, "It's the people."
TA Terry’s first TC, bought in 1962 for $400