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23456789ABC1DE41F5D114A194181
75D9A51786461
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46A64615A14A194144D9AB1D85A689D1
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John Kirriemuir (editor)
www.silversprite.com
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1 2008
March
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Responses and
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23451678879AB781
CCCDE7F98E879D3A1
8411
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BE9813B57351
CCCD9BE98D38DB3B57351
Second Life meeting transcript
Originally funded by the Eduserv Foundation
and published by the Virtual World Watch project
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11
As with all "e" things measuring the impact of using SL won't be straight-forward and the data
collected might not be all that accurate.
The issue is that in order to measure impact properly you need a control group that gets a similar
experience without the "e" element. This is often either not possible in an educational setting or
gets affected by too many other variables that invalidate the data. Furthermore, the introduction of
significant "e" activity into a course of programme of study normally comes on the back of a wider
curriculum re-development, so again, it is difficult to separate the impact of the new curriculum
from the impact of the "e" element in isolation.
Having said that, one can nevertheless infer areas where SL could have an impact in educational
terms. We are investigating some areas where we can see that SL could add value to the student
experience:
•
research students: typically research students are socially isolated as they don't normally
belong to a cohort in a traditional sense and what they study is so specific that doesn't
lend itself to exchanges. We are looking at the possibility of using SL as a place to
provide a "home" for research students. A place where they can find research resources,
where they can meet with other research students and interact informally. The possible
impact of such a virtual space is that it will help reduce that natural isolation that research
students endure.
•
cognitive disabilities: many programmes of study nowadays have an emphasis in group
work. Students with certain cognitive disabilities such as ASD might find it difficult to
engage with group work activities because of the social aspects of such work. SL might
be able to provide with a virtual space where group work can be conducted and be more
accessible for students with cognitive disabilities.
1
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Your question is a good one, and I'm not sure I really have an answer. I've only just started with
my first class in SL (3 weeks), so it's a bit early to tell what the impact might be (especially since
the class "Design (in) Virtual Worlds" is predicated around the use of a virtual world, rather than
the use of SL as an alternative pedagogical platform).1
11
If you’re thinking specifically about seminars/tutorials, I suppose one obvious metric would be the
quantity and quality of communications generated in and around SL as opposed to some other
method (e.g. face to face class tutorials). Particularly since it’s well known that students who may
be reluctant to speak up in a face to face class session are sometimes more active in online
seminars using text chat tools.1
1
1
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Interesting question! I think that measuring the impact of such things as seminars/tutorials if quite
a difficult one. I would be inclined to ask the students in this case. As the end users they probably
have a better opinion on this!
I'm starting work on an educational project in SL and we will be looking at retention of knowledge
as a key measure of success or not.
I think it depends very much on the use of SL. Some uses are going to be difficult to measure
against existing methods of education simply because the environment is so different. I'm trying
to discourage people from using SL to replicate something that can be done faster/better/more
effectively using other methods. I'm seeing quite a few examples of people using SL in ways that
don't make sense (load up the client to run a PowerPoint slide show?) and it is almost as though
the need to be in SL is overriding the sensible thought of what it is actually good for.
Mind you, I see that with other Web 2.0 technologies, what I call 'oh we don't have a Wiki, we'd
better get one' syndrome!
1
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We have just started to promote the Anglia Ruskin Island within our University, so there is not
much wider impact as yet. So far the main area of impact has been in teaching computing based
courses.
We are just finishing a module called 'Virtual World Environment Applications' which gives
students a deeper perspective on the enabling technology by getting them to create an
application in Second Life that communicates to an external database over an internet
connection. By using the facilities of Second Life the students get a much better idea of how
distributed applications can be put together.
Here are some thoughts on the impact on the teaching environment and student learning
•
The 'technology' effect - SL provides a superb platform to build complex, networked and
interactive applications. Ideal for enabling students to create complete applications
without getting bogged down in details.
•
The 'audience effect' - Since anyone within the group, and even visitors to the Island, can
use the student applications it means they are aware of having to design for external
users from the start. This helps overcome a common problem with student projects that
work well for the individual who built them but fail to take account of the wider audience of
users that may not have intimate knowledge of the application.
•
The 'team' effect. Each student can see what the others are doing and even interact with
their projects as they are developed. This facilitates peer to peer learning, testing,
evaluation and reflection.
None of these are unique to SL but it would be hard to reproduce them in such a seamless
environment.
We have also used SL as a meeting area using text, voice and on one strange occasion a
mixture of both. Although voice is good for chatting a text based meeting does focus on the
issues more and creates its own minutes. We noticed that in meetings where there are a mix of
seniorities an SL meeting tends to be much more relaxed.
1
Crispin Dale, Wolverhampton University
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Peter Twining, Open University
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1
[8:03] Art Fossett: ok, i think we'll start
[8:03] Art Fossett: welcome to eduserv island
[8:03] Art Fossett: thanks to all for coming
[8:04] Art Fossett: we're going to keep this meeting relatively
unstructured overall, but we've asked you to prepare short introductory
statements, so for that bit at least, i'm going to try and chair things
[8:04] Art Fossett: as you know, we've asked john to carry out a
series of snapshots
[8:04] Art Fossett: snapshots of sl educational use
[8:04] Art Fossett: for the first it was a simple - this is what is
happening - kind of snapshot
[8:05] Art Fossett: for the next two we've asked him to think about
impact - what impact is use of sl for learning and teaching having
[8:05] Art Fossett: hence his email questions to most of you
[8:05] Art Fossett: thanks for your responses so far
[8:05] Art Fossett: very useful
[8:05] Art Fossett: in my mind we have two questions to answer
[8:06] Art Fossett: firstly, does it make sense to ask "what imapct is
SL having?"
[8:06] Art Fossett: if so, how can we begin to measure that impact ,
qualitatively or quantitatively
[8:06] Art Fossett: so, the purpose of today is to help us think about
those kinds of issues
[8:06] Rosie Luna: We should think of MUVEs other than Second Life.
For some students learning in a protected space will be preferable. For
some closed (semi-closed) systems are a negative.
[8:07] Art Fossett: ok, fair point
[8:07] Art Fossett: what i want to do now...
[8:07] Art Fossett: is ask each of you to put forward your position
statement
[8:07] Art Fossett: please start by giving your institution and name
[8:07] Art Fossett: and try to be as brief as possible
[8:08] Art Fossett: i'll ask each of you by name
[8:08] Art Fossett: ok?
[8:08] Art Fossett: is everyone happy with that
[8:08] Glynn Gundersen: OK :)
[8:08] Wanderingfictions Story: yep
[8:08] Austin Thatcher: 'k
[8:08] Sheila Yoshikawa: ok
[8:08] Art Fossett: ok, milton
[8:08] Andy Ginsberg: yes
[8:08] Milton Broome: Sure,
[8:08] Cubist Scarborough: k
[8:08] Art Fossett: do you want to start
[8:08] Silversprite Helsinki: Milton: you have the floor
[8:09] Milton Broome: My SL name is Milton Broome in real life I'm
Simon Bignell at University of Derby.
[8:10] Milton Broome: Do you want me to say more?
[8:10] Art Fossett: yes, please - but as brief as you can
[8:10] Milton Broome: ok
[8:10] Milton Broome: In real life I am Simon Bignell a Lecturer in
Psychology at University of Derby in the UK. I teach a range of
Psychology modules both to campus-based and distance learners. I am
currently running a funded project that is evaluating teaching and
research in Second Life. The research element is investigating the
effectiveness of the platform to enhance the real-life
social/communication skills of people diagnosed with high-functioning
Autism and Asperger's Syndrome. Our project 'Blended Learning
Revisited: An Exploration of Undergraduate Experiential Learning in 3D
Virtual Environments.' is taking a group of Psychology Undergraduates
into SL to further improve their Psychology Skills and investigate the
feasibility of teaching in 3D Virtual Worlds.
[8:11] Silversprite Helsinki: Cool. Sheila - you have the floor.
[8:12] Sheila Yoshikawa: ok, I teach at Sheffield uni and have been
working with a small 1st year class in SL. If we are talking about
assessment of student learningthen the facile answer is that we should
use whatever is appropriate to the learning outcomes and the approach
to teaching. In terms of course evaluation, I think that we shouldn't
feel pressured to concentrate on quantitative measures. A couple of us
mentioned action learning. There is already literature about assessment
and evaluation... Also if there is more of a quantitative push on
people int he USA I think we should resist just following with that.
[8:12] Sheila Yoshikawa: um, is that the sort of thing you wanted ;-)
[8:12] Silversprite Helsinki: Mmmm, interesting; yes - that's it.
Clive Pro - you have the floor.
[8:12] CDB Barkley wonders if we are assessed o our intros ;-)
[8:12] Clive Pro: ok
[8:12] Silversprite Helsinki: (Other people - have your position para
lined up please; thanks :-)
[8:12] Clive Pro: here we go
[8:13] Clive Pro: Clive Gould HE PAL ICT Bromley College of F&HE
[8:13] Clive Pro: At Bromley College we have been undertaking
development in SL in two areas:
[8:13] Clive Pro: 1) A free interactive in-world tutorial exhibition
to help you learn Linden Scripting Language in a fun and interactive
environment. This is suported by an in-world reading room and
bookstore.
[8:13] Clive Pro: 2) A virtual learning trial with many innovative
approaches and access to comprehensive free teaching materials and
resources to help you learn a wide variety of programming languages.
[8:13] Clive Pro: Also about to start a project involving database
work with HND students between rl and sl
[8:14] Clive Pro: ok that's it
[8:14] Silversprite Helsinki: HND students; cool. Rosie Luna - you
have the floor.
[8:14] Rosie Luna: In RL I am Shirley Williams from the University of
Reading. We have a small fund from the University to set up Community
of practice to look at how the MUVEs (such as SL) could be used by our
uni. I also am involved in 2 EU projects: MUVEnation and LLL3D. We need
to think about how we are going to evaluate success before we run an
event/project.
[8:14] Art Fossett: MB next please
[8:14] MB Chevalier: thanks
[8:14] MB Chevalier: MB - MNK Boulos, Senior Lecturer in Health
Informatics, Univ of Plymouth, and project lead of the Sexual Health
SIM: http://sl-sexualhealth.org.uk/ and the popular 'Second Life in
Medicine and Health' Newsmedia and Research Watch resource:
http://healthcybermap.org/sl.htm -- My position statement: http://slsexualhealth.org.uk/?p=77
[8:15] Art Fossett: Wanderingfictions...
[8:15] Wanderingfictions Story: I.m Denise Doyle from the University
of Wolverhampton. I.m a Senior Lecturer in Digital Media at the School
of Art and Design. And here you see my avatar, Wanderingfictions Story
who is 18 months old.
[8:15] Wanderingfictions Story: In May 07 I gained support from the
University to fund an island for educational research and also research
to support my PhD (studying at SMARTlab Digital Media Institute,
University of East London). Kriti Island was created in August 2007
(please feel free to visit).
[8:15] Wanderingfictions Story: In this coming semester I will be
exploring the use of the island across the 3 levels of the
undergraduate Digital Media programme (450 students). In particular we
will be using Kriti (and SL) as an Imagining space for a module
Character and Environment. So, the development of the student.s avatars
will be an important aspect of their experience and exploration there.
[8:15] Wanderingfictions Story: I was very interested in a number of
Simon Bignell.s reflections, particularly the idea around using the
.space. of SL as a way of conceptualising in 3D and the Action Research
approach to assess the impact of SL in an educational context. It made
sense to me. And thanks for the contribution, Simon.
[8:15] Wanderingfictions Story: thats it:-)
[8:16] Art Fossett: buddy
[8:16] Buddy Sprocket: Daniel Livingstone, University of the West of
Scotland (formerly Paisley). Working on Eduserv project which is
looking at integrating web-based and SL for elearning with Sloodle.
http://www.sloodle.org/
[8:16] Buddy Sprocket: In my day job, I also teach a course
'Collaborative Virtual Environments' - hence Im more using SL (and
other environments) as an object of study rather than using it to
enhance teaching of another subject
[8:17] Buddy Sprocket: But Im working now on getting a Sloodle pilot
going, which will be looking at assessing the impact of sloodle/sl
[8:17] Buddy Sprocket: hopefully :-)
[8:17] Art Fossett: ok, thanks
[8:17] Art Fossett: scooter
[8:17] Scooter Gaudio: I'm Scott Chase, Senior Lecturer in
Architecture at the University of Strathclyde, where I teach and
research design computing. I'm currently running the university's pilot
project in SL, teaching an upper level class 'Designing (in) Virtual
Worlds', so the SL metaverse is really the subject of the class. We're
been underway only a short time and have yet to hold any class sessions
completely in-world.
[8:17] Andy Ginsberg: andy pulman web team leader at school of health
& social care at bournemouth university currently running a low cost 1
year test project on use of sl for health education opportunities
[8:17] Scooter Gaudio: One of the aspects of SL that interests me is
as an environment for collaborative design. I teach a class on building
information modelling where the students use integrated 'traditional'
CAD technology for group projects. I also have some involvement with
the SL Wikitecture project, which attempts to use SL technology for
group design work. Although this is not part of my SL class' group
project, I could see this being a useful platform for comparison in the
future (where collaborative design is the common point, but comparisons
of effectiveness could be teased out based on issues such as
communication and building tools).
[8:18] Art Fossett: cubist
[8:18] Cubist Scarborough: I'm Ian Truelove, Principal Lecturer at
Leeds Met. I teach on the art & design courses, and look after the
Second Life stuff. I'm also part of the 'Habitat' project with Oxford
and KCL which has just received funding to look at user generated
content and social presence in virtual worlds, mainly Second Life, but
also OpenSim and DarkStar/MPK20.
[8:18] Cubist Scarborough: Through the Habitat project, we are hoping
to evaluate how useful VWs are for enhancing 'learning through doing'
(for blended learning), as well as examining how well it helps distance
learners to feel a sense of social presence.
[8:18] Cubist Scarborough: The project has just started, and we have a
2 day JISC event starting tomorrow with a focus on evaluation, so I
might be a better able to answer the main question posed for this
session next week.
[8:19] Cubist Scarborough: That's it.
[8:19] Art Fossett: :-)
[8:19] Art Fossett: thanks
[8:19] Art Fossett: austin
[8:19] Austin Thatcher: Mike Hobbs from Anglia Ruskin University (hope
to see you all at MML 08 -:) )
[8:19] Austin Thatcher: SL is a particular virtual space . not a one
size fits all but I think there are three aspects that work well:
[8:19] Austin Thatcher: the technology effect - 3D platform for
building stuff and networking the audience effect . showing what you do
to a public audience the team effect . seeing what others are doing and
working together
[8:19] Austin Thatcher: All these are good for computing students
where we've been using SL up to now.
[8:20] Graham Mills is Online
[8:20] Austin Thatcher: We've had a got at a Group project acitivity
and database/php/SL link up module
[8:20] Art Fossett: ok, thanks
[8:20] Art Fossett: four
[8:20] Austin Thatcher: thats it
[8:20] Art Fossett: ty, four, over to you
[8:21] Art Fossett: ok, glynn
[8:21] Glynn Gundersen: thx
[8:21] Glynn Gundersen: afternoon everyone...
[8:21] Glynn Gundersen: Hi - I'm Glynn Skerratt from Staffordshire
University. I have a couple of projects running in SL this
year...involving learners in some basic research about the *use* of SL
as part of their learning activity and anotherlooking at using SL as a
tool to deliver feedback. I think that measuring the effectiveness of
T&L is a very complicated area - what metrics to use, how to
effectively capture and interprete data etc. etc. Surely what matters
is whether SL makes any sort of positive contribution to the overall
learning experience for some/most/all learners and whether, on balance,
that contribution is currently cost-effective [if you'll forgive the
term]. We're therefore faced with the usual process of asking the
learners what they think and attempting to interprete the information
objectively. I'm open to new ways of capturing information but, aside
from *involving* the learners in the assessment and review process (as
opposed to simply asking them to fill in post hoc happy sheets) I'm not
sure that SL c
[8:21] Four Bailey: sorry is it my turn?
[8:21] Glynn Gundersen: ...cries out for anything substantially
different...
[8:21] Art Fossett: yes, four, fire away
[8:21] Four Bailey: ok Cheryl Reynolds - University of Huddersfield using SL with a group of MSc Multimedia in Education students - using
it for conferencing and to explore the pedagogical affordances of SL.
Currently embarking on some research into whether they can learn new
concepts effectively through participating in SL activities. I've built
a 3D representation of Marx's 'base and superstructure' theory and will
be assessing participant's knowledge on the subject prior to and after
a learning activity in SL that uses the model. I'm interested to see if
the 3D affordances of SL add anything to the ease with which students
grasp the new concept and also to its memorability....
[8:22] Art Fossett: lul, we are hearing people's position statements
(brief ones) do you have something prepared?
[8:22] Art Fossett: lulu
[8:23] Art Fossett: andy, you ready?
[8:23] Andy Ginsberg: sorry jumped the gun earlier ! im andy pulman
web team leader at school of health & social care at bournemouth
university currently running a low cost 1 year test project on use of
sl for health education opportunities
[8:23] Andy Ginsberg: details here
http://andyp.edublogs.org/category/hsc-in-second-life/
[8:23] Art Fossett: ok
[8:23] Art Fossett: graham?
[8:24] Graham Mills: Ooops -- late AND didn't do my homework
[8:24] Art Fossett: ok, np... we'll go into open discussion in a mo
[8:24] Art Fossett: not?
[8:24] Graham Mills: Hoping to get students to build vehicles
mimicking slime mould amaeobae
[8:24] Graham Mills: (typo)
[8:25] Art Fossett: shale?
[8:25] Shale Bing: I I'm Shale from Edinburgh Uni Management School.
We are developing management games in Second Life.... good for things
involving interaction, not so good for other educational uses.
[8:25] Shale Bing: IS that ebough for now?
[8:25] Art Fossett: sure
[8:25] Not Merlin: I'm Toni Sant, lecturer in performance & creative
tech at the University of Hull's School of Arts and New Media on the
Scarborough Campus. Most of our work on SL in the last six months has
been about exploring what we can do in SL. We planning a theatrical
performance in May and an arts and design student showcase in April.
Meanwhile we've also had a group of students on a module called
Psychology of Internet Behvaviour look into the performance of online
selves in SL. There's more about most of this at
http://www.mediaperformance.org.uk -- so far we've done very little on
actual impact...but we'll hopefully get to that eventually.
[8:25] Art Fossett: CDB
[8:26] Art Fossett: thanks not
[8:26] Art Fossett: CDB?
[8:26] CDB Barkley: Not from around here (here= U.K.) ;-) I am CDB
Barkley and unlike the New Yorker cartoon from the 1990s, in Second
Life *everyone* knows I am a dog. In RL, I am Alan Levine, VP of
Community and CTO with the New Media Consortium (NMC,
http://www.nmc.org).
[8:26] CDB Barkley: NMC is a membership organization of more than 250
colleges. museums, and research centers supporting the use of
technology for learning and creative expression.
[8:26] MB Chevalier: do u have relation with the 3D Medical
Visualization project, also at Univ of Edinburgh (Vue) with RCSEd,
Shale
[8:26] CDB Barkley: We've been exploring SL for 2 years as part of a
braoder initiative of virtual worlds, running events, conferences,
discussion groups, and providing resources for educators, plus an arm
of our organization that does builds for higher education and renting
out of smaller parcels. We've created our own Orientation experience
aimed at educators and students. Our work is stored at
http://sl.nmc.org/ We have some new projects underfoot with Wonderland
and OpenSim.
[8:26] CDB Barkley: I can only build plywood cubes in SL and have more
interested in the social interaction, community building, networking
potentials. Am dabbling with web scripting stuff.
[8:26] CDB Barkley: Assessment of learning is a bit distant from my
realm of expertise. The places SL seems to exceed the most are the
onstructive, creative activities, which seem best asssessed by some
rubric of qualitative review of say objects created, machinima, essays
written outside of SL, photos, etc. I'm not sure the feasibility of
quantitative data being collected or being even close to meaningful. Sl
not nearly the ubiquitous platform as the web, but that's not
becessarily bad
[8:26] Shale Bing: Only that they have a presnece near ours....
[8:27] MB Chevalier: thanks!
[8:27] CDB Barkley done pasting
[8:27] MB Chevalier: :)
[8:27] Art Fossett: ok, has anyone been missed?
[8:27] Lulu Minnelli: I think it has to be about the engagement of
students- a straight lecture is the same in SL or RL but if you can say
take the students to visit the virtual Sistine chapel whilst talking
about the real thing this adds something that you could not get in RL I
think the salamander project is going in the right direction matching
resources and pedagogies and creating a directory of good practice
[8:27] Art Fossett: thnx to all
[8:27] CDB Barkley: Impressive array of snapshots
[8:28] Art Fossett: apologies for slightly slow and painful start...
but it's useful to hear people's positions
[8:28] Art Fossett: i'm happy to go into open discussion from this
point onwards
[8:28] Art Fossett: it may get slightly chaotic... but i can live with
that
[8:28] Buddy Sprocket: (apologies, forgot to prep mine in advance, but
think it was about right!)
[8:28] Silversprite Helsinki: To everyone: has anyone been (formally)
asked by their institution, peers or funders to "prove" that using SL
"works"?
[8:29] Glynn Gundersen: nope
[8:29] Rosie Luna: Yes
[8:29] Clive Pro: no
[8:29] Andy Ginsberg: no
[8:29] Austin Thatcher: no
[8:29] Graham Mills: no
[8:29] Cubist Scarborough: Not yet.
[8:29] Wanderingfictions Story: Not yet...
[8:29] Art Fossett: and what would you response be if you were
[8:29] Shale Bing: no
[8:29] Rosie Luna: EU funding always wants evaluation WP
[8:29] Milton Broome: Partially.
[8:29] Scooter Gaudio: No
[8:29] Wanderingfictions Story: similar to the responses emailed
around!
[8:29] MB Chevalier: not really
[8:29] Austin Thatcher: I'm OK as it is now part of a couple of
modules so it is a learning resource
[8:29] Not Merlin: no
[8:29] Sheila Yoshikawa: well, there is teh idea that Infolit iSchool
(island) can provide "proof of concept" but the evaluation is
essentially qualitative
[8:29] MB Chevalier: EU is about exploitation and potential (serious)
impact
[8:30] MB Chevalier: they are not purely reasearch-minded
[8:30] Rosie Luna: We need to think about how we are going to evaluate
success before we run an event/project.
[8:30] Austin Thatcher: Can anyone *prove* a lecture is a worthwhile
activity?
[8:30] MB Chevalier: *research
[8:30] Sheila Yoshikawa: also there is the "proof" of the students
completing their assessment
[8:30] CDB Barkley: That's the external sort fo view... internally, we
have some desire as well for the sake of improvement
[8:30] Sheila Yoshikawa: ;-)
[8:30] Cubist Scarborough: Our external examiners gave our SL
activities a good write up. I'd point to that.
[8:30] Rosie Luna: Assessing the impact of using SL/MUVEs is
difficult. A lot of the earlier adopters are dedicated teachers, who
would do a good job if asked to teach in a barn.
[8:30] MB Chevalier: that's great!
[8:31] Art Fossett: lol
[8:31] MB Chevalier: chat delay
[8:31] Rosie Luna: So we need a better plan on how to evalaute
[8:31] Silversprite Helsinki: Sheila and others mentioned the "Action
Learning" approach - anyone want to say more about this?
[8:31] Buddy Sprocket: similarly, if students opt-in, you might get
the students who'd learn even if the teacher forgot to turn up
[8:31] MB Chevalier: ...ext examiner gave... < that's great!
[8:31] Rosie Luna: Yes
[8:32] Sheila Yoshikawa: um Silversprite - what sort of thing do you
want ;-)
[8:32] Not Merlin: it's hard to evaluate RL activities appropriately
in many cases so it shouldn't be a surprise that the same goes for SL
[8:32] MB Chevalier: agree
[8:32] CDB Barkley: I'm not sure if you hear this in the UK, but in
the US I hear time and time again that while teachers are excited about
SL, young students really are not enthralled
[8:32] Silversprite Helsinki: Sheila: whatever you've got.
[8:32] Cubist Scarborough: We are familiar with action learning. It's
what our students have been doing in the studios for years.
[8:33] Rosie Luna: agree with CDB
[8:33] Cubist Scarborough: We have good mechanisms for managing and
assessing this.
[8:33] Art Fossett: @CDB yes, i think we hear that hear as well
[8:33] Wanderingfictions Story: were you asked how you evaluated the
imapct of your SL activities by the External Examiners, Cubist?
[8:33] Graham Mills: @CDB That's what I'd expect
[8:33] Cubist Scarborough: Well,
[8:33] Sheila Yoshikawa: In terms of action research approach - I
think Simon and I said something about this in the report
[8:33] Milton Broome: I think we can prove it by producing evidence
but that this is not sufficient. There must be a change in the way we
think about the learning interaction first. Action Research is one way
to develop out these platforms as we go but the attitudes of the
students are the critical factor I feel. One must win hearts and minds
first. That is why the 'image' of the platform is critical. It's
changing slowly for the best I feel.
[8:33] Cubist Scarborough: I just showed the externals what we had
been doing
[8:34] Cubist Scarborough: and they raved about it in their report
[8:34] Cubist Scarborough: it helped to give them a face to face tour
[8:34] Sheila Yoshikawa: it's teh action research cycle of identifying
something for improvement in your approach, reflecting, planning
changes, getting feedback in various ways, reflecting on that and then
so on
[8:34] Cubist Scarborough: otherwise I don't think they would have got
ti
[8:34] Cubist Scarborough: it
[8:34] Buddy Sprocket: mmm externals dont always have time for that...
perhaps a discipline thing
[8:35] Rosie Luna: also not really externals job
[8:35] Buddy Sprocket: our externals usu expect to mainly look at
paper
[8:35] Sheila Yoshikawa: sorry that was very crude - in terms of
evidence, you would have your own reflections, collleagues' views,
student views - collected through diaries, interviewes, observation,
focus groups etc plus evidence created through the intervention itself
[8:35] Rosie Luna: they are about "quality"
[8:35] Cubist Scarborough: Ours like to look at artifacts mainly, so
it was no probelm grabbing half an hour
[8:36] Sheila Yoshikawa: I think in terms of "impact it's worth
remembering that "powers that be" can be as persuaded by something
emotionally or from a sense of gain, as much by logical evidence
[8:36] Silversprite Helsinki: Sheila: yes, very much.
[8:36] Glynn Gundersen: speaking as an external....they are like MPs
and teachers...come in all shapes and sizes with all sorts of outlooks
and agenda...
[8:37] CDB Barkley: and little direct experience here?
[8:37] Cubist Scarborough: The reason I was showing the externals was
because I see SL as a future graduate destination, so they need to help
us to address issues with assessment etc.
[8:38] Wanderingfictions Story: what do you mean, Cubist? Future
graduate destinations?
[8:38] Sheila Yoshikawa: Getting externals involved does sound good:
sometimes they aren't given access to all the virtual/online
manifestations of a class - or don't have time to investigate them
[8:38] Cubist Scarborough: My graphics students will get jobs in
Second Life
[8:38] Cubist Scarborough: eventually
[8:38] Wanderingfictions Story: ok
[8:38] Cubist Scarborough: maybe
[8:39] Sheila Yoshikawa: i also see the knowledge of virtual worlds as
being a selling point for information managers and librarians
[8:39] Glynn Gundersen: Pl. bear in mind that an external's view does
not necessarily reflect a student's view...or necessarily donote
something that significantly improves *learning*
[8:39] Art Fossett: does it make any kind of sense to measure very
mundane things like numbers of students in-world, hours spent in-world,
that kind of thing?
[8:39] Sheila Yoshikawa: so there is an employability issue there too
[8:39] Art Fossett: does anyone do this?
[8:39] Clive Pro: not yet but i'm about to
[8:39] Glynn Gundersen: Art - we do it for standard VLE engagement
[8:40] Clive Pro: looking for ideas
[8:40] Austin Thatcher: not yet but sonds good to get some data
[8:40] Rosie Luna: We need to consider that not all students will want
to engage in Second Life/MUVEs . how do we deal with them?
[8:40] Art Fossett: agreed
[8:40] Wanderingfictions Story: my avatar animaation is stuck on
typing!!!
[8:40] Milton Broome: The need for the platform drives it. So in
education the learning technology should follow the requirement for it.
We are seeing a lot of unneeded technology and a lot of people doing
the same kinds of 'toe in water' research. The students will drive the
pedagogy, we should listen to them, in my opinion. If they engage with
learning materials it doesn't really matter what 'bells and whistles'
you dress it up with. The point is the technology (Second Life) should
always support and not take centre stage if we are talking about
learning relationships.
[8:40] Buddy Sprocket: I used blogs and wikis as additional elements
of work which were more easily reviewed - but I did not measure time in
world
[8:41] Austin Thatcher: I got students to review their experience as
part of their assessment
[8:41] Art Fossett: more easily reviewed in what sense - counting?
[8:41] Clive Pro: good idea
[8:41] Sheila Yoshikawa: We have some SL scheduled in normal contact
time, but outside that - should we need to measure it any more than any
other learning?
[8:41] Sheila Yoshikawa: mode of learning
[8:41] Lulu Minnelli: agree with Milton should not be the technology
driving the agenda
[8:41] Buddy Sprocket: Blogs and wikis are quite good for seeing how
much input has been made over a period of time
[8:41] Silversprite Helsinki: Austin: review their experience: do say
more ...
[8:41] Peregrine Juneau: And what did they say, Austin? Were they
positive about the experience of learning in SL?
[8:41] Buddy Sprocket: if students try and do it all in the last week,
it shows up quite clearly...
[8:42] Austin Thatcher: they had to do a blogg and write a report on
how well they found SL for group work
[8:42] Art Fossett: @buddy understood
[8:42] CDB Barkley: It is a problem that there is no "versioning" to
see growth, change over time, like a wiki nd a blog can provide
[8:42] Sheila Yoshikawa: what do you mean exactly CDB?
[8:43] CDB Barkley: The things we create and do in Sl can be ephemeral
[8:43] CDB Barkley: They may not even be there in the future
[8:43] Austin Thatcher: SL is a bit like RL - you need to read a
newspaper to find out whats going on, not wander about across the world
[8:43] Milton Broome: If it takes a student over 20 per cent of their
allocated class time to interface with the VLE or Platform (Second
Life) we shouldn't be using it. The waste of time spent trying to get
to grips with another 'environment' for learning is incredible. We
certainly lose our no digital natives along that route.
[8:43] CDB Barkley: And thus, unless one is not deliberate to
document, you dont have its evolution
[8:43] MB Chevalier: u can measure specific interactions with
objects/time spent accessing/browsing specific objects in a SIM, but
all of this requires complex scripting to be added to each individual
object you would like to track this way
[8:43] Art Fossett: so any impact presumably translates into something
else?
[8:44] Sheila Yoshikawa: but CBD some of the development is, so to
speak, personal - as difficult to reflect on and document in RL as in
SL
[8:44] Art Fossett: @MB and doesn't necessarily tell you anything
about impact anyway?
[8:44] Sheila Yoshikawa: and with objects - you could subject
different versions...
[8:44] CDB Barkley: @Sheila agreed
[8:44] Not Merlin: I'm thinking about the role of longevity in all
this
[8:44] Rosie Luna: A number of case studies I have seen are for very
small classes and issues of scalability needs to be addressed.
[8:44] Not Merlin: take the use of PPT as an example
[8:44] Rosie Luna: Impact on few is usually good
[8:45] Not Merlin: and think back 5 years
[8:45] MB Chevalier: some experts have argued there are no 'digital
natives' and 'multitasking generation': http://www.celdaconf.org/keynote_Kirschner.pdf (Dec 07)
[8:45] Not Merlin: then think back 10 years...and even 15, if you can
[8:45] Not Merlin: thanks for that link MB!
[8:45] Sheila Yoshikawa: I agree Rosie - and particularly there are
technical barriers in my uni - but it can also be a stimulus for
rethinking large-class teaching
[8:45] Rosie Luna: @MB there is a different in general across
generations
[8:45] Austin Thatcher: Hmmm I still think that there are those that
really take to it and those that are put off by the learning curve
[8:45] Austin Thatcher: non natives by any other name
[8:46] Buddy Sprocket: re: digital natives: there are connotations and
some ideas about digital natives that are quite wrong IMHO
[8:46] Art Fossett: @austin anti-virtual worldists?
[8:46] Rosie Luna: @Shelia - how do you mean?
[8:46] Sheila Yoshikawa: re: natives - I think that this is overplayed
...
[8:46] Austin Thatcher: not anti just not so bothered to get to grips
with it
[8:46] Art Fossett: yes, agreed
[8:46] Art Fossett: ok
[8:47] Wanderingfictions Story: I have one anti - SL student. She was
very worried that she would have to take part
[8:47] Sheila Yoshikawa: @Rosie - for example moving away from a lot
of all-class plenaries to group working on tasks, some of the tasks
facilitated in SL, for example
[8:47] Graham Mills: Why?
[8:47] Wanderingfictions Story: I had to reassure her that she didnt
[8:47] Sheila Yoshikawa: @rosie but it does require rethinking LT&A
strategy
[8:47] Wanderingfictions Story: She said she didnt agree with the
space!
[8:47] Graham Mills: Why?
[8:47] Rosie Luna: @Shelia - does that take a lot of your time?
[8:48] Buddy Sprocket: (lol my biggest problem was getting students to
do blogs. sl was OK, blogs they really didnt like)
[8:48] Wanderingfictions Story: I think she found it difficult to
express what her feelings were about SL
[8:48] Austin Thatcher: @Buddy - me too
[8:48] Rosie Luna: @buddy - blogs could be another discussion - I
resorted to bribing
[8:48] Clive Pro: so blogs aren't a good idea?
[8:48] Sheila Yoshikawa: @Rosie - yes, to be honest it can - I'm
actuallythinking of a large (400+ student class) that doesn't use SL
but does take that approach, at Strathclyde Uni
[8:49] Buddy Sprocket: They worked in end, but students were not keen
[8:49] Rosie Luna: @buddy - bribe = small mark - very effective
[8:49] Austin Thatcher: @ Clive good idea but require students to do
some work ;-)
[8:49] Art Fossett: i asked about use of mundane metrics earlier on...
do we have a sense overall of what a set of 'impact' metrics might look
like
[8:49] Art Fossett: does that question even make sense?
[8:49] Cubist Scarborough: I've had more success with picture blogging
[8:49] Sheila Yoshikawa: @Rise, Buddy - blogs yes, agreed!
[8:49] Scooter Gaudio: @buddy: I wonder if the anti-blog thing may be
partially due to students' discomfort with writing; e.g. we're a very
visual/building course
[8:49] Cubist Scarborough: It's easy to send a postcard.
[8:49] Not Merlin: i think we're coming to my point about longevity :)
[8:49] Graham Mills: SL great for pix
[8:49] Four Bailey: I think SL has been like no other app that I've
introduced to students in terms of how they respond to it - form
extreme enthusiasm to open hostility - not sure why it eleicits such
strong reactions... - has anyone else found similar?
[8:49] Cubist Scarborough: My lot arn't very read/write
[8:50] Austin Thatcher: @art time spent in SL is a first indicator - I
use it to see how people are getting on with work on the moodle VLE
[8:50] Milton Broome: About 80 per cent of those who try Second Life
never come back. We lose them in the orientation stages when they come
to Second Life off their own back. This must say something about the
learning curve required to navigate the world. Imagine a child that
cannot move or communicate with those around them The frustration is
one of ability in interaction with the communication tools, not one of
motivation. Blogs are the same but easier for our students.
[8:50] Graham Mills: @Four: what's the ratio?
[8:50] Rosie Luna: @Milton I have found it very difficult to run
events when there are beginners on their own, the best beginner event
was when we were in a lab together.
[8:51] Austin Thatcher: @Milton a lot depends on expectation in SL it
is mostly DIY unlike online games
[8:51] Sheila Yoshikawa: @Art - metrics - yuck - currently having to
haul together our Annual Review of Learning and Teaching - not keen on
metrics
[8:51] Four Bailey: fairly even I'd say Graham
[8:51] Milton Broome: Yes, student centred and semi-structured works
best.
[8:51] Cubist Scarborough: We're hoping to look at the orientation
thing with Habitat. CBT's session on this was really useful (I read the
chatlog)
[8:51] Buddy Sprocket: @rosie: for sure, I start with everyone logging
in from same room
[8:51] Austin Thatcher: @Rosie Blended learning was definately the
most productive
[8:51] Art Fossett: @sheila :-)
[8:51] Graham Mills: @Four -- that's better than I'd expected!
[8:51] Sheila Yoshikawa: @Rosie etc. I did teh first sessions f2f in
labs, worked well for socialisation as well
[8:52] Four Bailey: : ) - multimedia and e-learning students for the
most part so not a random sample...
[8:52] Milton Broome: We should also consider the utility of Second
Life for Distance Learners.
[8:52] Sheila Yoshikawa: and it was a compulsory activity so people
couldn't opt out but no-one expressed problems
[8:52] Four Bailey: it's the hostile responses that intereste me it's like they're angry that you've takne them there...
[8:52] Cubist Scarborough: Iv've had good experiences with real
students in labs, and bad experiences with everyone at home.
[8:52] Sheila Yoshikawa: I do think you need to prepare people, let
them talk through the issues
[8:53] Rosie Luna: @milton - MUVEs have plenty of potential for
lifelong learning
[8:53] Austin Thatcher: @Shelia - f2f is often used to start before
going to distance
[8:53] Four Bailey: they don't get this mad about Blackboard...
[8:53] Art Fossett: perhaps they should ;-)
[8:53] Rosie Luna: hould we be comparing with Virtual Learning
Environments (e.g. Blackboard)?
[8:53] Wanderingfictions Story: @ Four - do you have any observations
on that?
[8:53] Sheila Yoshikawa: oh, actually they don't get as EMOTIONAL
about Blackboard etc but they can react critically, as can we
[8:53] Austin Thatcher: and as for WebCT ...
[8:54] Four Bailey: just anecdotal - wandering about exploring it
further though...
[8:54] Sheila Yoshikawa: I think we should compare with all learning
environments - I find it more comparable to f2f
[8:54] Graham Mills: @Sheila: true
[8:54] Glynn Gundersen: Colleagues....forgive me...but it seems that
we are talking an awful lot about impact but not really addressing
anything about *measuring* it...
[8:54] Art Fossett: are there ways of evaluating impact of vles that
could be applied here?
[8:54] Sheila Yoshikawa: evaluating it in terms of how it can
contribute to learning experience in a unique way
[8:54] Cubist Scarborough: In terms of evaluation, I've just read this
doc as part of my JISC homework:
http://www.jisc.ac.uk/media/documents/programmes/digitisation/SixStepsH
andbook.pdf
[8:54] Art Fossett: @glynn yes, agreed
[8:55] Cubist Scarborough: It's a really useful framework for
evaluation in general. Well worth a read.
[8:55] Silversprite Helsinki: Has anyone thought of (or used) any
innovative methods of SL assessment/measurement that haven't been
mentioned yet?
[8:55] Rosie Luna: Maybe we need a study of students and their
reactions to a variety of technologies 9JISC have done one) but
including MUVEs
[8:55] Austin Thatcher: My view is that it should provide an extra
dimension to f2f not just a distance tool
[8:55] Sheila Yoshikawa: i think that there's a wide literature on
evaluating educational interventions, not just of VLEs
[8:55] Art Fossett: in the sense of 'how do we know that vle/sl/xxx
makes learning better?'
[8:55] Rosie Luna: @Cubist - the JISC ebvaluation course is good
[8:55] Sheila Yoshikawa: I mean obviously there's a lit, but I mean it
can be relevant
[8:55] Rosie Luna: butr you need it early in the project
[8:55] Austin Thatcher: One problem is measuring like with like 'ownership' is key in SL but minimal in many other environments
[8:55] Milton Broome: The point for me is "Why should we be doing this
in a virtual world?" The answer I feel is that it is VIRTUAL. It's not
real and so we can exploit both time and space and physics and our
preconceptions about how learning should take place. Is Academia ready
for that though? We can evaluate it and produce 'evidence' of
effectiveness but it only has to be 'as good as what we have already'
to justify it. It doesn't have to be better.
[8:55] Art Fossett: @austin, explain
[8:56] Glynn Gundersen: exactly Art....my point is that this is a
complex area in RL...no more and no less in SL I'd suggest
[8:56] Rosie Luna: Evaluation has to be planned early
[8:56] Sheila Yoshikawa: Milton, I agree
[8:56] Cubist Scarborough: Luckily, we have an evaluator on the
project. I hope to learn from him
[8:56] Rosie Luna: @Cubist - I think we share project team members KCL is on our EU projects
[8:56] Austin Thatcher: @Art students have their own avatars their own
places to go their own experience - its really outside the classroom
[8:57] Kuky Tibbett: We.ll be running a trial in Imperial College in
March aiming to compare the learning gains between participants in two
comparison groups given the same Respiratory Emergency case in an
interactive e-module and using game-based activities in the 3D
Respiratory Ward in Second Life.
[8:57] Art Fossett: @austin ok, understood, thanks
[8:57] Cubist Scarborough: @Rosie - StevenW?
[8:57] Four Bailey: good point Milton - our physical teaching
environments are built on old technology - e.g. in the past our only
transcription method was blackboards chalk and notepads so classrooms
were laid out thei the teaceher at the front etc. - we're hyde bound by
that old model still - but not in SL....
[8:57] Rosie Luna: @Cubist - yes
[8:58] Art Fossett: @kuky over what time period?
[8:58] Milton Broome: There's several innovative examples of
effectiveness on my Blog http://milton-broome.blogspot.com/
[8:58] Sheila Yoshikawa: in RL we are stuck with lots of classrooms
which are built for transmissive approaches to teaching - SL is
refreshing in comparioson
[8:58] Art Fossett: (sorry about the layout of this room then! :-) )
[8:58] Four Bailey: @Sheila indeed
[8:59] Kuky Tibbett: 4 months
[8:59] Art Fossett: i tried making it more circular - but you all sat
on one side ;-)
[8:59] Sheila Yoshikawa: @Art - but discussions and so forth still
have their place ;-)))
[8:59] Art Fossett: yup
[8:59] Not Merlin: i also think this group is too big. sorry! :-)
[8:59] Cubist Scarborough: Not all teaching environments are built for
chalk and talk. You should see the state of our studios. They are built
for mucking about in.
[9:00] Not Merlin: i've found this all quite interesting
[9:00] Andy Ginsberg: it would be good if there was a central
repository of case studies with details of any evaluation held
somewhere which people could access rather than everybody doing their
own thing in their own silos....
[9:00] Sheila Yoshikawa: @cubist perhaps people in other disciplines
are aspiring to a studio-like environment...
[9:00] Kuky Tibbett: that'd be useful
[9:00] Rosie Luna: @Andy - good case studies do need collecting
[9:00] Art Fossett: hopefully john's/silversprite's snapshot will move
us in that direction
[9:00] Milton Broome: That's a nice perspective. Mucking Around. Play
is how we learn best. When a person feels freed-up to play
(expressively) they can really learn. I like that.
[9:00] Cubist Scarborough: I think there is a lot to be learned from
the studio based approach
[9:00] Wanderingfictions Story: in Rl in Art Schools the studio is
under threat for many subjects, like Digital Media
[9:01] Rosie Luna: @Andy they also need anaylsing for best practice
[9:01] Cubist Scarborough: It's not the exclusive domain of the art
student any more
[9:01] Sheila Yoshikawa: Just to start a completely new thread - at
the moment I can't say I'm a fan of the NSS - BUT that has questions
that could be asked of the experience in SL
[9:01] Cubist Scarborough: Maybe SL gives others a taste of waht we
have enjoyed all along
[9:01] Glynn Gundersen: If we are trying to understand the
benefits/advantages/opportunities for learning in SL how are we
intending to demonstrate it - apart from by heresay, opinion, bias and
gut-feelings?
[9:01] Buddy Sprocket: re mucking about - for my last class, i gave
them an almost empty area. I prepared nothing. Some liked the chance to
experiment, some were thrown by the lack of structure.
[9:01] Art Fossett: silversprite asked about novel approaches to
assessment just now - any answers? anyone doing anything in this space
in-world?
[9:02] Clive Pro: sorry have to go now - thanks everyone :-)
[9:02] Sheila Yoshikawa: bye
[9:02] Glynn Gundersen: @ Art ..yes
[9:02] Art Fossett: @clive thanks
[9:02] Not Merlin: thank you all.
[9:02] Cubist Scarborough: The point about mucking about is that we
have ways of managing and assessing this type of learning that might be
useful for others venturing into this area
[9:02] Not Merlin: i must be going too.
[9:03] Art Fossett: @all we are coming up to the 60 minute mark - so
i'm expecting that some of you will want to leave - we're happy to keep
going for another 30 minutes if people want to - but will draw things
to a close at that point
[9:03] Buddy Sprocket: @ cubist : that might be nice to have!
[9:03] Silversprite Helsinki: (Admin point: will try and re-send the
spreadsheet with details of attendees either later today or tomorrow.
We've had substantial teccie problems here [in RL Bath] this
afternoon).
[9:03] Art Fossett: @not thanks
[9:03] Rosie Luna: @art got to go - will there be atranscript?
[9:03] Sheila Yoshikawa: What I'm doing isn't really novel reflecting on experience and analysing adta collected in SL - but the
context was an inquiry based approach
[9:03] Sheila Yoshikawa: data
[9:03] Cubist Scarborough: Success of SL can be evaluated from the
quality of the products produced by the students who have mucked about.
[9:03] Art Fossett: @rosie thanks and yes
[9:04] Rosie Luna: ciao everyone
[9:04] Art Fossett: @cubist - true, but what about when SL is just
used as collaboration/discussion forum?
[9:04] Austin Thatcher: @cubist but is that just a reflection on the
quality of the student?
[9:04] Cubist Scarborough: Bye Rosie
[9:04] Sheila Yoshikawa: bye Rosie
[9:04] Wanderingfictions Story: Cubist - Do you see much relationship
to the work your students do in the studio and the wokr they do in SL?
[9:04] Cubist Scarborough: I've not really used SL for that much
[9:04] Scooter Gaudio: it's all about added value or quality
[9:04] Glynn Gundersen: @ Cubist...depends on what you're doing in SL
[9:04] Milton Broome: We've seen the over assessment of our school
children weaken the teachers ability to be creative and spontaneous
within the class. We shouldn't be assessment driven, it is important of
course but that isn't the point. The point is to smile whilst learning.
To live and to learn as the Open University say.
[9:04] Sheila Yoshikawa: @Art - what I mentioned is the assessment
related to discussion and interview
[9:04] Cubist Scarborough: Oxford are dealing with that bit.
[9:05] Cubist Scarborough: @ Wnader - It's starting to happen
[9:05] Lulu Minnelli: For me the advantage of SL over other web
technologies is the sense of prescence - makes communication more
meaningful whether social or work based
[9:05] Andy Ginsberg: thanks for a very interesting discussion bye
everyone....
[9:05] Art Fossett: @andy thanks
[9:05] CDB Barkley: Sorry must go, early in work day here. Great
discussion, enjoy the drinks and "bear meat pate" ;-)
[9:06] Art Fossett: @lulu - i agree
[9:06] Silversprite Helsinki: CDB: Am 800 miles away from the open tin
of "bear meat pate", and it was so rank I swear I can smell it from
here :-)
[9:06] Milton Broome: lol
[9:07] Sheila Yoshikawa: Just to mention the NSS again - that does
actually have questions to do with being stimulated and enthusiastic and that is such an influence on how a dept is viewed (I mean the
results of the NSS) so it seems to emndiorse the idea that asking
students' about their perceptions and their opinions about impact on
them is valid
[9:07] Wanderingfictions Story: @ Cubist - well that must be something
that can be looked at quantatively? As well as qualitatively
[9:07] Silversprite Helsinki: Open floor: does anyone have any issues
(impact or related) that haven't been raised so far?
[9:08] Cubist Scarborough: @ Wand - It can. It's tricky, but the right
learning outcomes, clearly defined, with a big emphasis on formtive
feedback and assessment - it's do-able
[9:08] Glynn Gundersen: There seems to be significant confusion about
how we actually *measure* learning in RL...so finding any definitive
answer for SL experiences will be a real challenge :)
[9:08] Lulu Minnelli: i am looking at emotional impact of interaction
in Sl has anyone done any work on this or had any thoughts?
[9:08] Buddy Sprocket: no-one (I think) has raised the ideas of
comparitive studies... which are not easy to set up
[9:09] Glynn Gundersen: @ Buddy - which is the placebo then? :)
[9:09] Milton Broome: The Impact on our students is more than could be
assessed. If we are using a new paradigm to teach them with we may just
need a new means of assessing them too.
[9:09] Austin Thatcher: @siversprite - a list of what we think we
should measure
[9:09] Buddy Sprocket: :-)
[9:09] Kuky Tibbett: I'm looking at game-based learning activities,
has anybody talked or raised any issues in relation to this?
[9:09] Milton Broome: I'm working on some comparitive research at the
moment.
[9:09] Art Fossett: kuky is doing some comparative work i think??
[9:10] Lulu Minnelli: Have to go to RL meeting thanks everyone
[9:10] Sheila Yoshikawa: @Buddy I think getting meaningful comparison
is difficult - if you were doinfg something in 2 environments you'd
probably idealkly do it 2 different ways, so if you do it the same way
in both you are probably biasing from the start
[9:10] Cubist Scarborough: Sorry folks - I gotta go. Really enjoyed
this session. Look forward to seeing you all again at some point.
[9:10] Buddy Sprocket: Milton: specifically for aspergers?
[9:10] Buddy Sprocket: see you cubist
[9:10] Sheila Yoshikawa: and there are a lot of possible variables...
[9:10] Art Fossett: @cubist thanks
[9:10] Cubist Scarborough: Cheers....
[9:10] Buddy Sprocket: lots and lots.
[9:11] Wanderingfictions Story: My computer is telling me I need a
break! Thanks for a grat discussion - lots to think about
[9:11] Kuky Tibbett: Yes, we're aiming to compare learning gains
between participants in two comparison groups
[9:11] Austin Thatcher: SL is not alone in being hard to measure surely this covers a lot of web2 technology?
[9:11] Milton Broome: No, for pedagogy. Looking at i) in second Life,
ii) in VLEs, iii) in class. But it's a messy subject to look at. The
previous points are all correct about parity.
[9:12] Art Fossett: @austin agreed
[9:12] Wanderingfictions Story: Thanks everyone. Bye for now.
[9:12] Kuky Tibbett: Once group will access an e-module on a
Respiratory Emergency case and the other will play a game in a virtual
Respiratory Ward
[9:12] Sheila Yoshikawa: bye
[9:12] Art Fossett: @wanderingfictions thanks
[9:12] Milton Broome: My research with Autism and Asperger's Syndrome
is another project.
[9:12] Buddy Sprocket: I'll have to go soon also - will the chatlog be
posted?
[9:12] Buddy Sprocket: thanks milton
[9:12] Kuky Tibbett: what is it about Milton?
[9:13] Art Fossett: @buddy yes
[9:13] Art Fossett: presume people are happy to have transcript made
public??
[9:13] Sheila Yoshikawa: yes Art
[9:13] Austin Thatcher: sure
[9:13] Glynn Gundersen: yep Art
[9:13] Scooter Gaudio: ok
[9:13] Silversprite Helsinki: As someone who's done lit reviews on
"games in learning", there have been problems with impact measurement
and assessment there. One thing that bugs advocates of games in
learning is that the most useful aspects of that technology are things
that are difficult, or impossible, to measure.
[9:13] Kuky Tibbett: yes, sure
[9:14] Art Fossett: i'm tempted to start to wrap things up
[9:14] Art Fossett: any final points people want to make?
[9:14] Austin Thatcher: @Silversprite - OK thats the question all we
need is an answer
[9:14] Glynn Gundersen: Arguably...the actual amount or extent of
*learning* is impossible to measure
[9:14] Sheila Yoshikawa: Silversprite, therefore we perhaps need to
chjhaallenge the requirement for "objective metrics" if tehy aren't
meaningful - but not always easy
[9:14] Milton Broome: I've got two projects at the moment both on
EducationUK Island. One is with blended learning and assessing the
effectiveness of Second Life, the other is looking at the communication
skills of people with high-functioning Autism and Asperger's Syndrome
in Second Life.
[9:14] Buddy Sprocket: I've got to go too... thanks for putting this
together art+silver
[9:15] Buddy Sprocket is Online
[9:15] Kuky Tibbett: Thanks Milton
[9:15] Art Fossett: @buddy thanks
[9:15] Buddy Sprocket is Offline
[9:15] MB Chevalier: sorry had wireless problems here at work
[9:15] MB Chevalier: thanks for this meeting--see u later
[9:15] Art Fossett: @mb thanks
[9:15] Graham Mills: @Sheila: I certainly don't think there's any onesize-fits-all metric
[9:15] Milton Broome: Thanks Art and thanks Silversprite. A really
productive meeting.
[9:16] Sheila Yoshikawa: yes, thanks to you both
[9:16] Scooter Gaudio: Thanks Andy & John
[9:16] Kuky Tibbett: Thank you all, sorry I was late
[9:16] Art Fossett: ok, we'll call it a day.
[9:16] Art Fossett: thanks to everyone for attending...
[9:16] Graham Mills: Thanks, Art, Silver
[9:16] Austin Thatcher: lots of food for thought thanks
[9:16] Art Fossett: we'll post transcript and think about how we might
take this area forward
[9:16] Glynn Gundersen: Thanks to you and Bear-pate man for organising
it
[9:16] Art Fossett: :-)
[9:17] Kuky Tibbett: Thanks, bye
[9:17] Art Fossett: @kuky bye
[9:17] Glynn Gundersen: bye all...
[9:17] Scooter Gaudio: thanks, bye all
[9:17] Art Fossett: @glynn bye
[9:17] Four Bailey: sorry I've been in a workshop with students at the
same time as trying to attend the conference - will I be able to review
as transcript of the bits I missed, ARt?
[9:17] MB Chevalier is Offline
[9:17] Austin Thatcher: cheers all - bye
[9:18] Four Bailey: bye Austing : )
[9:18] Graham Mills: Bye all
[9:18] Four Bailey: Bye Graham
[9:18] Sheila Yoshikawa: Bye
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