I-w/j 10\
snowflake
b
n
L.
2:51
22:51
5 1 PM
PM
TO:
TO:
Tone Clarke
Clarke
Torie
FROM:
FROM:
Donald Rumsfeld
Rumsfeld
Donald
DATE:
DATE:
26,2002
26,
2002
November 26,2002
SUBJECT:
SUBJECT:
Larry
Larry Di Rii'c
R
Give me that Evan Thomas
Thomas quote
quote to
to show
show to
to Joyce.
Joyce.
Give
f 27/y
(Z/t
Thanks.
Thanks.
DHRiazn
DHIUazn
DHR/azn
112602.06
112602.06
Please respond by:
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Certified As Unclassified
January 9 2009
IAW EO 12958, as amended
Chief, RDD, ESD, WHS
UI0779 /03
103
U10779
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1
Conversation
between Don
Don Imus and
and Evan
Evan Thomas
Thomasof
ofNewsweek
Newsweek
Conversation between
of
Newsweek
Imus-"Rumsfeld
come up
up looking
looking great,
great, does
does he?
he? (In
(In reference
reference to
to Bob
Bob
Jmus-"Rumsfeld doesn't
doesn't come
Imus-“Rumsfeld
doesn’t
Woodward's
Woodward’s book Bush at War)
)
Thomas-"Well,
the guy,
guy, who's,
who's,
there'salways
know,
Thomas-“Well, he's
he’s the
who’s,there's
there’s
alwayssomebody
somebodyleft
leftstanding,
standing,you
youknow,
after,
was
He,
Rumsfeld's
a
very
prickly
proud
guy,
he
after, after,
after, musical chairs,
and
he
it.
Rumsfeld's
a
very
prickly
proud
guy,
he
chairs,
Rumsfeld’s
He's not faking it, he really
doesn't
damn about reporters,
doesn't.
really doesn’t.
doesn't. He’s
doesn’t give a danm
reporters, he really
doesn't
hirn with the usual demands, unstated
unstated
so when
when Woodward came to him
doesn’t care.
care. And so
he's the one
one who comes
demand,
wouldn't
know, you
you pay
pay or you
you play,
play, he
he wouldn’t
wouldn't play and he’s
demand, you know,
that's
offlooking
badly. The
The reason,
off looking badly.
reason, it's
it’s not so much Woodward is out to get Rumsfeld, that’s
the
ifyou
Woodward's
the wrong
way oflooking
at it.
The point
point is
is that
that in,
in, if
if you
youread
readWoodward’s
Woodward's books,
books, he
he
wrong way
of looking at
it. The
always
he'll
be looking
always has,
he'll have
he'll have,
has, he'll
he’ll
have these meetings and he’ll
have, the
the characters
characters will be
looking at
each
that's
that's how
each other,
other, and
and weighing
weighing each other and thinking about each other, and that’s
how they
they
Powelllooking
or you
get
of view across,
looking
get their point ofview
across, so you have Colin Powell
looking at Rumsfeld,
Rumsfeld, or
have
have Condy Rice looking
looking at the president,
president, but you never have Rumsfeld looking
looking at
of view and as a result,
anybody
else, so
anybody else,
so Rumsfeld
Rumsfeld never gets to give his point of
everybody's
everybody’s doubts
doubts or skepticisms
skepticisms about Rumsfeld come through but not the other way
around.
around.
Imus-"Didn't
Rumsfeld
poke Woodward
Woodward in
in the
the chest
chest or
er something
something with his
Imus-"Didn't
Imus-“Didn’t Rumsfeld
Rumsfeldpoke
or
something
his fingers?
fingers?
Thomas-"Yeah,
this weird
weird scene,
scene,
weird scene
scene
in
Thomas-“Yeah, there's
there’sthis
scene,weird
scene outside
outside the
the Pentagon,
Pentagon, this is
is in
Woodward's
Woodward said
said he just ran into
00,
uh,
Woodward’s book,
book, where
where Woodward
into Rumsfeld
Rumsfeld by chance
chance and uh,
Rumsfeld jabs
jabs three
into Woodward's
uh,
uh, they
they start
start talking
talking and
and Rumsfeldjabs
three fingers
fingers into
Woodward’s chest
chest knocking
knocking
him off balance.
balance. Now,
Now, I talked to
to Rumsfeld's
hirn
Rumsfeld’s people
people yesterday,
yesterday, they say that never
happened.
happened.
happened. Rumsfeld
Rumsfeld just says
says it never
never happened.
happened.
Imus-“Does Woodward
Woodward say
say it happened?"
happened?’’
Imus-"Does
saw Woodward
Woodwardlast
last night
night actually
actuallyafter
yeah,
Thomas-“Yeah, II saw
Thomas-"Yeah,
last
actually
after Larry
Larry King
King and
and he
he said,
said, yeah,
absolutely itit happened,
happened, he
he doesn't
doesn’t know
know what
what Rumsfeld
Rumsfeld is
is talking
talking about.
about.
absolutely
if uh, uh,
Imus-“I wonder
wonder ifuh,
uh, in
in this
this struggle
struggle between Rumsfeld,
Rumsfeld, Cheney,
Cheney, Colin Powell and,
Imus-"I
if, 00,
uh,
if,
uh,it's
it’s personal.
personal.
Thomas-“Well this
this is
is aa complicated
complicated subject,
Thomas-"Well
subject, you know because the, these guys generally
Thomas-"Well
to Woodward
don’t
leak. So,
So, up
up to
to this
this point
point they
they did
did a pretty
pretty good
good job
job of
of presenting
presenting a
up to
Woodward don't
don't leak.
goodjob
ofpresenting
up
they’re
fairly united
front and
the feeling
was that,
that, these
these are
are grownups,
grownups, you know, they're
fairly
united front
and the
feeling always
always was
fairly
out to
each other,they're
other’they’re
people at
at the
the end
end of
of their
their careers
careers who
who are
trying to
to do
do the
the
not out
to get
get each
other,they're people
oftheir
are trying
not
they really
really have
have nothing
nothing to
to lose
and they're
they’re
not aspiring
aspiring to
to some
job
right thing,
thing, they
lose and
they're not
right
some higher
higher job
as aa war
war cabinet
cabinet goes
get along
along pretty weIl,
well, and I think that’s
generally
and so
so that
that as
goes they get
that's generally
and
generally
true. However,
the surface,
However, there
there are
are some
some serious
serious tensions
tensions beneath
beneath the
surface, particularly between,
true.
Rumsfeld
and
the
others,
and
those
tensions
Woodward’s
uh,
apparently
uh, apparently Rumsfeld and the others, and
tensions come out in Woodward's
book.
book.
Certified As Unclassified
January 9 2009
IAW EO 12958, as amended
Chief, RDD, ESD, WHS
(7 - \-
L'
\
"·
b
Imus-"I
Imus-“I guess,
guess, implicitly
implicitly in my question
question was we hope it is."
is.”
Thomas-"No,
Thomas-“No, you hope it is."
is.”
Imus-"Yeah,
weIl, of
of course,
course, yeah."
yeah.”
Imus-“Yeah, well,
Thomas-"No,
hope itit isn't
Thomas-“No, but actually
actually I hope
isn’t because these guys, you know,
know, they're
they’re dealing
dealing )
them. Uh,
Uh,you \
with very difficult decisions
decisions and you need, you want some trust between them.
and, uh,
uh, II hope
hope they
they trust
trust eaCh)
know, they're
they’re trying
trying to decide whether to go to war here,
here, and,
each
uh,
other."
other.”
Certified As Unclassified
January 9 2009
IAW EO 12958, as amended
Chief, RDD, ESD, WHS
~
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