Assassination
Records Review Board
Final Determination
Notification
___________________-------------------------------------------------------AGENCY
AGENCY
:
~C0R.D
mnm!33
RECORD SERIES
FILE
-ER
February
BSCA
: 180-10110-10001
CLASSIFIED
: SECURITY
: 008215
18,1997
Postponed
Status of Document:
Number
TESTIMONY
of releases
of previously
in Part
postponed
information:
0
.
Number
of Postponements:
Postponement
8
# 1 (Page 6):
Reason for Board Action: The text is redacted because it discusses
may be withheld under Section 6(1)(B) of the JFK Act.
Substitute
Language:
sources
and methods
that properly
sources
and methods
that properly
sources
dnd methods
that properly
Date
Release Date: lo/2017
Postponement
# 2 (Page 7):
Reason for Board Action: The text is redacted because it discusses
may be withheld
under Section 6(1)(B) of the JFK Act.
Substitute
Language:
Date
Release Date: lo/2017
Postponement
# 3 (Page
7):
Reason for Board Action: The text is redacted because it discusses
may be withheld under Section 6(1)(B) of the JFK Act.
Substitute
Language:
Date
Postponement
# 4 (Page 12):
Reason for Board Action: The text is redacted because it reveals the identity of an intelligence agent that
properly may be withheld under Section 6(1)(A) of the JFK Act. The Board is awaiting additional
evidence from the CIA, at which time it will reconsider the postponement
Substitute
Review
Language:
CIA Employee
Date: 05/1997
Postponement
# 5 (Page 12):
Reason for Board Action: The text is redacted because it reveals the identity of an intelligence agent that
properly may be withheld under Section 6(1)(A) of the JFK Act. The Board is awaiting additional
evidence from the CIA, at which time it will reconsider the postponement
Substitute
Review
Language:
CIA Employee
Date: 05/1997
Postponement
# 6 (Page 13):
Reason for Board Action: The text is redacted because it reveals the identity of an intelligence agent that
properly may be withheld
under Section 6(1)(A) of the JFK Act. The Board is awaiting additional
evidence from the CIA, at which time it will reconsider the postponement
Substitute
Review
Language:
CIA Employee
Date: 05/1997
Postponement
# 7 (Page 16):
Reason for Board Action: The text is redacted because it reveals the identity of an intelligence agent that
properly may be withheld under Section 6(1)(A) of the JFK Act. The Board is awaiting additional
evidence from the CIA, at which time it will reconsider the postponement
Substitute
Review
Language:
CIA Employee
Date: OS/1997
Postponement
# 8 (Page 21):
Reason for Board Action: The text is redaikd
because it discusses
may lx withheld
under Section 6(?)(B) of the JFK AC-t.
sources
and methods
that properly
Substitute
Language:
Time Frame
Release Date: lo/2017
Board
Review
Completed:
09127196
Date
Page
----------
: 07/23/95
: 1
JFK ASSASSINATION
SYSTEM
IDENTIFICATION
FORM
-----------------------------------------------AGENCY INFORMATION
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AGENCY : HSCA
RECORD NUMBER : 180-10110-10001
RECORDS SERIES : SECURITY CLASSIFIED
AGENCY FILE NUMBER : 008215
TESTIMONY
______----~~~~
DOCUMENT INFORMATION
ORIGINATOR
FROM
TO
TITLE
DATE
PAGES
SUBJECTS
: HSCA
: [ RESTRICTED
]
:
EXECUTIVE
SESSION
; 04112178
: 42
: [ RESTRICTED
J
l
OSWALD, LEE,
MEXICO
CIA,
METHODOLOGY
MEXICO
DOCUMENT TYPE
CLASSIFICATION
RESTRICTIONS
CURRENT STATUS
DATE OF LAST REVIEW
OPENING CRITERIA
COMMENTS
Box 1.
POST-RUSSIAN
CITY
: TRANSCRIPT
: UNCLASSIFIED
:3
: RELEASED WITH DELETIONS
: 09/27/96
:
: Duplicate
enclosed.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PERIOD,
TRAVEL,
TRIP
TO
CONTENTS
TESTXMONY
B&is
OF :
PAGE
Tarasoff
1-4
- -.
EXHIB1T.S
NUMBER
MARKED
94
1-4
RECEIVED
1-1
TASCIONE:amt
]
EXECUTIVE
1
i
I
w-w
2
WEDNESDAY,
3
:
SESSION
-
i
12,
APRIL
1978
i
I
W-N
-
U.S.-House
of
Representatives,
Ii
I
Subcommittee
on the ‘Assasshation
of John F. Kennedy of
“the Select
Committee
on
Amaasinations,
3
L
/
Wash+gton,
4
n
d
The Subcommittee
p.xa.
in
pursuant
Longworth
room 1310,
R&hardson
met,
Preyer
(Chairman
Representatives
Present:
Office
of the
i
1
i
I
D.C.
to notice,
House
i
i
at
Buildi+g,,Hon.
Subcommittee)
Preyer,
3:50
Dodd,
presiding.
Fithian
and
*.I
:i
i
:;
I
Sawyer.
Also
J.
Wolf,
present:
E, Berning,
F
M. Flanagan,
A. Purdy,
G. Cornwell,
W. Cross,
H. Leap,
R. Morrison,
G. Fonzi,
J,
I.
Hornbeck,
M. Wills,
C. Mathews,
D. Hardway,
R.
Genzman and C. Berk.
Mr.
Dodd.
For
the
Present
The Committee
are
recotid,,,we
are Congressman
will
come to
continuing
Pithian
in
order.
Executive
and -elf,
Session.
Congressman
Dodd.
For
witness
of
the
is
aaubpoena
record,
appearing
and
again,
it
0,f his
own Yolition
I would
should
ask the
be noted
witness
that
and
not
to
rise
SworT?. .
~-. , =-.-_;-'.,j
-_, ,_..,'J,. I.--"V.
?.,--LI.3‘1..
.s '- --‘-z
the
as a result:
and
be
1
I1
f II
_!
i
'i
;
.'
I
I
I
I,
1
:
i
1-2
Would
you stand
up for
Would
you raise
your
swear
Do you
the
to
Tarasoff.
Mr.
Dodd.
is
Mr.
Tarasoff,
m.
Dodd.
and nothiq
but
I do,
to read
-
first
that
-the
correct
all,
Mr.
Tarasoff,
of
all,
I want
pronunciation?
of
rules
Yes,
of the
you have
Committee?
sir.
You had an opportunity
to
look
over
those
.
Mr.
Tarasoff.
Mr.
Dodd.
birth
Yes,
sir.
I am going,
juncture,
Resolution
to thi6
pursuant
to read,
222,
was a resolution
which
-and that
Ls mandated
to
and
study
of
the
assassination
and
death
of
President
concerning
investigatory
departments,
whether
the
are
the
adeqate
their
that
gave
that
and ccmplkte
surrounding
the
I
F, Kennedy,
existing
laws
the
President
and capahilCty
ir,
benefit,
state6
a full
John
of
at this
your
circumstances
protection
jurisdiction
for
resolution
conduct
investigation
determining
to our rules;
1 am going
Committee,
Committee
including
-:--
First
a copy of the
the House
States
truth
Yes.
Dodd.
pakticular
this
whole
sir,
I am. going
Mr..Tarasoff.
rule63
ha'nd?
the
Yes,
ask you,$arasoff,
received
sir?
.
Mr.
Mr.
please,
right
to tell
truth?
=
provisions
of
the
of
and
agencies
and
United;
the
;
and
enforcemeht,
I
1-3
and whether
there
was full
disclosure
information
ameg
agencies
and departments
States-government
mot
in
the
been of
and whether
possession
assistance
why such
information
House,
if
the
amendmen't
provli;ded
Committee
of existing
the
United
or information
would
the‘ assassination
and to ihake
Select
and
and department
investigating
was not
or department;
of
any evidence
of an agency
in
agency
of evidence
and
or collected
by that
recommendations
to the
deems appropriate,
legislation
or the
have
for
enactmxit
the
of new
legislati.on.
Mr.
Tarasoff,
Robert
G&man
whd is
right,
to proceed
Now,
Fikhian
and myself
I am going
sitting
with
in
to ask
front
some questions,
may have
couns~,
you,
of
after
scme follow-on
Mr.
to your
which
'Mr.
questions
.for
you.
We are
and we will
grate.ful
await
for
your
your
response
appedrance
to
before
some of
these
this
I
Committee .
questions.
I
]
I
: 1:
‘2
ii
3
2;-i
i
1
,TR
-;<
.
1
i;.
!
‘:
TESTIMONY OF BORIS TARASOFF
Mr.
Mr.
Genzluan.
name and address
- -.
Mr.
at th.@ present
Mr.
Dodd.
have
rules,
you
could
remind
those
little
louder.
right
Tarasoff,
would
the
Mr.
Bela
Genzman.
to introduce
JFK Exhibit
Mr.
for
the
according
you if
that
--
you
to
you
could
-hear a question
us to
record,
our
desire.
L
speak
up a
accurakkly,
speak
louder.
into
you,give
your
full
name and
record?
My name is
Tarasoff,
is
full
counsel.
Mr.
address
with
us you want
Thank you.
Mr.
your
D. Tarasoff,
.to know
and,
you do not
Genzman.
.for
vicinity
you are here
Mr.
address
Yn the
tith‘jlou
up and tell
Go ahead,
Roris
have c'ounsel
If
you.give
name is
me, I want
counsel
that
would
record?
time
Excuse
do not
chirp
the
My full.
Tarasoff.
residing
you
for
Tarassof,
Hora,
Mr.
the
Boris
D. Tarasoff
and the
Nexico.
at this
Chairman,
record
a document
time
I would
like
to be labelled
9.4.
Dodd.
Without
objection,
so ordered.
(The
document
marked
refrizred
JFK Exhibit
identification
in
the
files
^-- .-\ . =.~-,~F,-:'.'; .--'.=,,,:v
. .._..
--_-;..3u
to
No.
and
of
NC.
the
will
was
94 for
be found
Subcormittee.~
1-5
Mr.
Mr.
Gf2nzma.n.
Tarasoff,
Exhibit
Clerk
give
this.
have you preViously
No.
document
I
f
I
. i
!
to
A copy,
Hr.
Genzman.
I am directing
the
you previously
clerk
the' one th&
just,'gave
been shown
been labelled
a copy
of
I
Tarasoff.
that
been shown
943
Mr.
document
this
the
Tarasoff?
Mr.
,Jw
Would
Mr.
Tarasoff.
Mr.
Genzman.
your
attention
you,
Mr.
a copy of
JFK Exhibit
No.
Just
that
us?
I
to the
Sarasoff.
iletter
which
Have
I
has
I
1
941
this
Fine.
you.gaxre
I
I4
morning.
You were
shown
a copy
of
the
lett+l
morning?
.
Mr.
Tarasoff.
Mr.
Germnan,
Is
document
it
your
is
Yes.
Thank you.
understanding,
a letter
authorizesi
dated
Mr.
March
any individual
Tarasoff,
23,
thdtthis
1978 from
who has executed
the
the
CIA which
Secrecies
I
Agreement
with
a secrecy
with
.
?’
--
.
the
CIA or'who
agreement
information
within
Mr.
Tarasoff.
Mr.
Genzman.
three
general
tions
in
Mexico
with
the
its
considers
CIA to
scope
himself
furnish
bound
this
by suqh/
I
: [;
Committee
and jurisdiction?
Yes.
Mr.
areas.
City
i
Chairman,
First,
aroad
the
1963,
my questions
CIA's
till
surveillance
Then the
involve
i1
opera-
CIA's
.1
surveillance
;
with
specific
reference
to
Lee Harvey
Oswald's
contacts
with
'
1-6
1
the
and Cuban Embassies
2
time.
And finally,
3
to
surkillance
A
. -.
5
occupatkon?
Soviet
the
First
of
all,
in Mexico
identifiabtitm
Tarasoff.
Pardon
me?
'7
Mr.
Genzman.
What is
y&r
8
Mr.
Tarasoff.
I have
retired
Mr.
Germnan.
How long
h&e
:2
Mr.
Tarasoff.
i3
Mr..
ikmlan.
I4
retirement?
present
occupation?
from
the
seven
service,
"go.
years
IO
you .been retired,
seven
years?
Yes.
Did
I5
Mr.
Tarasoff.
16
Mr.
Germman.
17
present
this
as applied
of Oswald in Mexico Citya
-.
Mr. Tarasoff,
what $6 your
Mr.
!!
about
techn'g@es
6
:
City
for
the
the
for
CIA before
your
Oh,' yes.
an officer
Were you an agent,
or
an asset
CIA?
Mr.
Tarasoff.
Mr.
Genzman.
assignxlents
Mr.
June,
you work
operations
Mr.
Could
with'the
Tarasuff,
1963
Mr.
T was
and
you
continued
,conducted
officer.
detail
around
I started
Genzman,
Tarasoff.
CrA
a staff
the
Were you aware
Well,
the
the
of
working
up until
by the
for
CIA in
in
the
of
end
'your
19.637
M&co
of
City
in
October,r
any surveillance
M&co
I was aware,
Committee
City?
because
--
may I
f.
1
qualify
my StateXWI&,
expand
a little
Mr.
GenzluaIi;.
3
Mr.
nkrasoff.
m4ay"X &pana?
I
Mr.
Genznlan.
Certainly.
II
Mr.
Tarasoff.
- 4
s
you repeat
bit?
2
4
Would
it
2
I
a friend
of mine whd was working
'7
I stayed
with
8
went back
s
10
for-four
occupation
to my regular
And ttit
is
I tried
thdt,
City
the
Documents
to be assigned
piease?
to replace, I
I
An the 8ame capacity
and
I
months in L
Iand I
+1
T can~'to
6
Mexico
that,
City
Mexico
with
Section,
to a job
(
DDI.
:
CIA.
And after
in Mexico
City
j
which
..
!I
1 finally
:2
friend
of mine went back to Naebington,
13
'Mexico
City
16
succeeded
Genznlan.
15
Mr.
Tamsoff.
15
.
Mr.Genzman.
mrveillance
!a
what your
1.7
?$r.
So therefore,
w&n
.'. .
I replaced
this
him in
in LFune, '6.3.
Mr.
1'
in do&ng,
What were yOur duties
You mean during
I am speaking
duties
Tarasoff,
q'TDY.or
ahout
in Hexico
qprations
Ln Mexico
City.
duties
)Eotild
City?
i
rftgardi@g
you
I
; I
i
I
': I
I
after?
your
i, If
tell
us
i
I
i
;
I
i
were?
Hy duties
we2e .on a lee& permanent
-
I
i
20
?I
on a more or less
first,
then
conversation
whole
petianent
to translnte
that
batix
--
to redeive
.from Russian
was 'on the
tape
Into
the
English
tapes
I
'the
and to transcribe
the
t-9.
Mr.
Genzman.
Mr.
Tarasoff.
Wuxe
did
Tfie
ta+pes
these
tapes
originatad
originate?
right
there
/
in
l-8
1
Mexico
2
toareas,
3
remult,
1
- -.
City
because
establishments,
we had these
Mr.
telephone
6
Mr.
Tarasoff.
'7
Mr.
Genzman.
with
9
Mexico
taps
were
Soviet
on the
in
I did not
7.
Were some of thkse
a result
Mexico
hear
of.
City?
the
tapes
on the
as a
tape.
tapes'
Pardon,
taps
leading
Therefore;
Embassy
of telephone
wires
'tapped.
Were sgme of these
on the
the: result
telephone
conversations
Genzman.
5
3
some of the
!
I
I
i
I!
questioni
which
'Soviet
pou dealt
Enihassy
in
City?
10
Mr.
Tarasoff.
?l
Mr.
Genzman.
12
or transcription
13
Soviet
Mr,
15
on as a result
is
corcetit.
Were you responsible
of tapes
Embassy
TC
That
from
for
other
operations
translation
.bes.ides
the
1
operation?
Tarasoff.
the
Yes,
of which
there
were
several
we got
tapes
also,
aqmati.ons,goi~g
hut
they
1
I
I
II
I
I
I
were
i
j
I
I
I
j
!
*1
i
i
i
15
taken
of the
:-:
spots,
!i3
transcribe
so-called
dealing
15
Mr.
20
17
bugs,
with
thein
Genzmn.
Soviet
were
planted
nationals.
strategzik
3: had to
!
also.
inside
Plr.Tarasoff,
The Ame?ican
Embassy?
Mr.
Geniman,
Yes.
Mr.
Tarasoff.
Yes,
Mr.
Gemman.
I see.
American
s.everal
Therefore,
Did you work
and translation
in
of these
when
But
tapes,
v%-ubassy or ou+lside
of
the
I was in
as part
did
the
‘American
Embassy?
i
fI
I
TDY,
-of your
you work
Excbassy
transcriptioa
inside
in
1963?
the
1
1
2
from
3
2
Mr.
Tarasoff,
In 1963;
the
Embassy.
We work&d,
Mr.
Genzman.
Did you ha'.ve 'contacts
-Embassy
with
Mr.
5
Well,
6
who delivered
'7
them
8
so it
v
'Shere was no delivery,
10
12
tapes
tapes
13
Mr.
Tarasoff,
TC
Mr.
Genzman.
lj
following
15
them?
but
day,
with
were
/
American
contact
he would
man
pdck
and
tic@ptiontof
I had double
Sun&y.
work
to
that
you would
receive
made?
.
.
Yes.
after
And that
you would
you transcribed
!8
Mr.
Genzman.
Do you reIr&iber
who either
gave you the
-1
the
and Saturday's.
Tarasoff.
20
day,
th&
Monday
Mr.
contacts
inside
own.
to be transcribed
1-I
1':
on our
'so-called
nex't
Are you saying
they
divorced
19633
the
clock,
Sunday's
day after
speak,
we had the
and,
the
Genzman.
the
in
the n&t‘&tch
around
included
Mr.
!l
the
up and deliver
do that
so to
whom you dealt
Tarasoff.
went,
I was completeiy
deliver
them
them
the
and translated
Yes.
the
.tapes
names of
or received
any of your
the
tapes
i
i
4
,i
_ I :..::
,a .;'
with them?
; .g
; :;
i .._
Mr. Tarasoff.
Well,
the first
contact
was Radford
.*I
1
; *ij
Zoronde.
After
quite
awhile,
his name was Rudy.
I do not
*j
T&t
is a&l:
.iil
know whether
it was a pseudonym or a true name.
frm
you-along
I know
about
with
him,
the transcriptions,
when you were
finished
l-10
:.
‘:I
c
person
3
1
1
- -.
5
6
7
you believe
Mr.
Tarasoff.
Mr.
Gen2xnan.
Mr.
Tarasoff.
more or less
t
information
Mr.
10
i?
nationality
Rudy?
I thinkhe
was-a
Could
you.give
Tall,
regular
the
Pole.
us a description?
rededicg
forehead,
nothing
featured,
of
Ught
hair,
outstandirg
about
-.
Mr.
i2
the
was called
him.
3
!i
Do you know
Mr.Genzman.
i
seemed
Can you.give
Geniman.
for
Rudy,
him after
they
--
it
family,
hiis
He was married
Tarasoff.
that
as to
any other
did
not
get
of
possibly?
to
a French
Whether
along.
was some kind
identifying
a mix-up
woman and it
she divorced
in
his
family
life.
And the
:"
Tndochina-as
; :
in
,
AS
after
mn
I would
description
you referred
to
Did
this
Mr.
Tarasoff.
Mr.
Genzman.
six
inches,
His
like
by the
Russian
gibe
and ask you if
he worked
was nonexistent
coasting
to
fact
alang.
you
several
these
fit
pieces
the
person
as Rudy,
person
have blond
AS far
Was his
)Ag. Tarasoff.
m.
him
so he was just
Germnan.
of physical
recognized
a transcriber.
I fmndout,
Mr.
*;
chief
Pardon
Was his
Genzmm.
or taller
hair?
as 1 redollect,
height
5 foot
T think
so.
six
inches?
approximately
five
me?
height
or shorter?
. e.:,--_ li.-.-\ - - =-,;- ‘:- ~-:."~y'<,
~/rL_
feet
l-11
Mr.
Tarasoff.
No.
Mr.
Genzldan.
I see,‘
Would
He was taller
you describe
than
.I.
!
i
his
face
&z being
thin
i
I
or full?
1
-.
Mr.
size,
Tarasoff.
btit
said
As far
Can you tellme
Mr.
Tarasoff.
No, he dfd
his
-Russian
not
Are you saying
Mr.
Tarasoff.
He had hardly
Mr.
Genzm.
fin&shed
Mr.
did
did
th&+
such
personnel
with
After
he spoke
i
poor
i
Russian?
spakenRussian.
give
from
yuur contact
. .
'to this
wanted
the: tapes
contact
volume,
and
after
to transcribe
it
Embassy
I just
were
procetised
you
could
not
away from
reFrLIing
it
in Spanish,.
because
knew Spanish,
-=
.^_
_
.1.,
-r--p.-
-.
-
.;
by me,
there
i
4
i
it,
i
me and given
!
Spanishbefore,
was taken
they
_.
__~
were
me to do th&
Qhere
at the
1
As I
Xt?
the: Spanish
Lo a place
Russian.
I.
limited,
you receive
you then
a specific
So therefore;
Russian?;
I see.
Tarasoff.
at .first,
he spoke
spedk
was rather
Genzman.
were
people
tthether
Mr.
exactly
hack
i
Genzman.
what
i
I
Mr.
before;
he was regular
slAmmer.
.sl&ghtly
Whatexactly
was
as I reniember,
-__
..__
..;
..I
.
‘:’
\:5.
but
cope with
for
the
most
Mexican,
of, the
i
j
l-12
mr-1
fls.
Mr.
Tasciom!
fact,
-j
'.-Assassin.
JFK Sub.
Genzman.
transcribe
Are you saying
and translate
then
the
that
you did
Spanish
not,
sections
in
of the
tapes?
I* - 2-78
.$
Mr.
- -.
Tarasoff.
No, after
a while
I transcribed
only
Russian.
Mr.
have
Genzman.
occasion
Tarasoff.
Mr.
Genzman.
Mr.
Tarasoff.
of operations.
it
Mr.
of
this
operation,
to have contact-.with
Mr.
because
As . part
Yes,
a Mr.l
3
definitely.
Can you tell
me what
He was an officer
What precisely
was strictly
Genzman.
do you ever
his
of
position
some sort
he was doing
his
was?
in charge
I cannot
describe1
t
i
business.
Did you
ever
have
occasion
to have contact
I
!
with
AnncGoodpasts'as
Mr.
UCL
that
rules
Tarasoff.
through
pastm,
time,
of the
‘I!
.g,F*
-7<
.c ‘-2
.p,
in
,, was just
;;
21 j
my stay
for
and terminate
transcribing
the
around
operation?
people,L
in Mexico
the
embassy,
hanging
of your
I know 'the
I was inside
the morning
work
part
City
embassy.
instance,
at
6.
Russian
doing
1 , Goodin
1960 because
I had to abide
start
Sometimes
portion
work
there
of the
at
:I
.;
, whose
,i
:I
voices
you
heard
on the
by the
in
i
was so lit+
tape
that
I
nothing.
In conjunction
with your transcribing
Mr. Genzman.
ii
23 11 and translation
operation,
did you ever have occasion
i!0:
2' :t,, personality
assessment
or vcice
identification
of the
7’
--
1
I
!
i
at
9:00
tapes?
;
.i
i
:
to make:
people
*-*a
Mr.
1
2
after
3
sample.
4
-know.
*
'7
3
3
out
with
first
12
after
put
about
Mexico
We got
thein have
Mr.
ld
that
quite
for
a collection
Do you ever
.
Mr.
Tarasoff.
Personality
Mr.
Genzman.
voice
empty
the
,
I
I do not
they
those
did
:
!
i
I
]
come.
voiCe
samples!.
i
: i
Then we had to run
1
_' i
movie
reels,
reels.
samples.
embassy
everything
Genzman.
to have
i
At
reels,
to the
of course,
to them:
grounds
saving
of voice
over
I suggested
or four,months
I start
looking
been turned
.
On what
I do my own movies.
City
end of my tour,
13
three
that
of duty,
them on 8 millimeter
I had a --
around
tour
was rejected.
a suggestion
I would
was my idea
my regular
The idea
Anyway,
10
?I
That
I came for
5
6
Tarasoff.
people.
was turned
Some of
!
At the
i
i
i
I
;
I
over.
make personality
assessment?
assessment?
I
15
I5
mation
17
you
which
detected
Mr.
Ia
Personality
you heard
from
on the
Will
not
interfere
with
iC
day
suggested
to me that
11
solely
an excellent
describe
et
the
what
It
was
infor-
:;
upon any emotibn
he is
ting
of
this
upon
talking
work
descriptive
The thing
I do the
part
solely
interes
on the
!
r.
i
time?
because
a person
cetera,
your
audit
idea
or-based
you be more
15
upon
tapes
based
tapes?
the
Tarasoff.
assessment
is
his
based
I thought
was a challenge
to
intonations,
does,
i
'
31one
study
tapes.
it
Mr.l
character
the
if
it
me,
was
how to
inflection,
i
I
I
:
:
i
:
about.
and
I think
it
was
appreciate4
i
mr-3
l-14
by the
station
because
I got my promotion
very
shortly
thereafter.
Mr.
tion
-
Genzman.
with
the
Thank you.
Cuban
Embassy
Did you
ever
surveillance
have
any connec-
operation
in
Mexicq
-.
City?
Mr.
Tarasoff.
Mr.
Genzman.
people
you have
veillance
tion
or the
Tarasoff.
Mr.
Gennan.
which
efther
answer
occasion
Mr.
Tarasoff.
saying,
voice",
and
feeling
about
because
so
they
the
the
with
sur-
the
Soviet
I do not
know.
City?
with
the
personality
on what
something
assess+
you heard
from
on the
transcrip4
to make comments
about
the
well,
I used
"This
forth.
fellow
I would
a person.
want
is
inject
The station
not
to make just
saying
a short
in
an agitated
some of my personal
told
to see that.
me to
If
eliminate
I had anything
.I to say about a person,
I should use a separate
sheet of
Ii
;!
il paper for that purpcse.
:i::
I3 . Genz?;an.
Thank ycc.
Were the transcripts
which
-:--
made ori,girzii
or dil
they
include
both
originals
and carbon
i
I
I
i
1
person's
tapes?
First,
did
with
that.
made based
besides
connected
in Mexico
when you detected
from
who were
Ifn conjunction
you sometimes
sheet
of any people,
in conjunction
I cannot
do you have
synopsis
named,
Cuban Embassy
personality
it
already
Mr.
tapes,
Do you knoy
operations
Embassy
ment
No.
YOU
l-15
1
-.
‘\
I
copies?
2
3
Tarasoff.
Mr.
original
and
there
- -.
was
Carbon
three
too
at
much
copies,
first,
if
I think.
I am not
so one
repetition,
We made
i
i
Then
mistaken.
carbon
I
one
copy
i
I
1
was dis-
f
I
i
;
!
carded.
Mr.
fir&
Genzman.
was changed
so that
you
you
saying,
had
one
then,
that
original
and
the
procedure
two
carbon
copies?
Mr.
Tarasoff.
Mr.
Genzman.
ginal
and the
Mr.
date
it
they
is
number
them
with
you do with
the
ori-
was picked
CIA,
her
telephone
up on the
job
was to mark
number
number
it
on a separate
payroll
down
or military
She was told
is.
piece
of paper
to
and send.
I
said,
"Can't
blabs
oi
the
or whatever
on there
Mr.
What did
you.
embassy's
Later
in
correct.
station.
superfluous
and
one
work
.
and the
the
is
When my wife
each conversation
to
that
carbons?
her
attache's
put
Thank
Tarasoff.
to continue
the
I think
you figure
just
copies
Ml? . Tar&s-off.
a mess of
stuff
out which
is
things,
basket."
he
of
If
superfluous?
inconsequential
wastepaper
Genman.
the
was such
ar.d
about
the
i
I
i
I
I
i
t
you
the
Yes.
sayii?g
transcript?
That
your
being
pertinent
somebody
tear
is
sent
bat%
and which
calls
in
them up and put
i
i
I
it.
wife
cut
up at
least
,
1-16
Mr.
Genzman.
And sent
those
cut-up
parts
to the
embassy?
- -.
sent
Mr.
Tarasoff.
Yes.
Mr.
Genzman.
Was it
to the
Mr.
Tarasoff.
two carbon
Yn.
embassy
Tarasoff.
Mr.
Genzman.
these
Mr.
friends
literal
Before
me how it
I do everything
it
the
the
There
to the
these
were
station.,
transcriptions
conversations?
question.
which
you made,
or were
long
Genzxzn.
I arrived
worked.
and the
they
were
merely
It
at the
was this
other,
TDY, my
fellow
calls
hang up.[.
J
the
did
little
sheet
What
type
which
you include
any comments?
very
because
Sometimes,
ones they
translation
frowned
of
short,
upon.
"If
k'oc neari
you
as I said
you want
it,
paper."
of
comxIents
did
you
commonly
make?
Xr . TaYascff.
up
verbatim.
transcript,
on 2 separate
Mr.
get
when
Eesides
Tarasoff.
before,
put
that
Genzman.
Mr.
were
back
or sample
not
up and
conversations?
insisted
on your
up.
transcriptions
this,
put
was cut
The transcriptions
and says
Mr.
she cut
went
Tarasoff,
I did
Tarasoff.
told
copy
transcriptions
Mr.
original
.
summaries 'of
carbon
Mr.
copy
*
and an origjnal
Genzman.
you made literal
carbon
to be filed?
One
copies
the
the
shsrt
forz
..--- c.-\2'2,
-. L:.L.
--- -, "7 ':T, '-,__,I"3-\ru?. ::.t.
-_
cr
what?
mr-6
1-17
1
i
Genzman.
Mr.
Tarasoff.
- -. Mr.
t
rate
c
-
sheets
I would
doing
just
Mr.
Tarasoff.
Mr.
Genzman.
make these
doing
"Well,
is
the
fellow
all.
comments
on sepa-
II
studies,
i
I started
1
I
things.
put
any type
of
.I
identifying;
transcript?
Besides
the
you have
transcript,
itself?
words,
that
character
them whenever
Can you repeat
did
you note
I started
Would you have
concerning
if
the
question?
translation
occasion
the
people
you could
on the
Tarasoff.
Mr.
That
descriptive
information
did
instance.
them and consult
on the
In other
li
After
Genzman.
conversation,
3
VI
c
I said
Did you ever
keep
one of the
l5
form,
of paper?
information
13
for
Tarasoff.
Mr.
one.
The short
Genzman.
Mr.
$
e
E
e
The short
seems to be agitated",
3
v)
=
c:
cr
Mr.
of
to put
the
literal
identifying
who were
speaking
identify
the
on the
people
speaki:
transcript?
This
is
the
way it
We knew
worked.
tIn
E
cc
c
0
13
precisely
20
office.
--
who would
If
someone
official.
Once
speaks
and so forth,
you
be living,
answers,
ge
t used
it
fior
instance,
in
the
film's
i
we know it was the chief
film's
1
I
tc the person's
voice
or how he :I
was practically
no trouble
at
all
to
identify.
,j
-4
;:
I.
-,
--
i
-:
2-
Mr.
I,
the
Gen mar.,
spezkers
in
On the
2ny
Other
trar.script
did
w2.y~ aside
fro?
you
their
ever
refer
nones
to
Which
I
1-18
I
Ii
you identified?
1
2
3
Mr.
Tarasoff.
Would
you clarify
Mr.
Genzman.
Certainly.
that
On your
question?
i
transcripts
did
I
you
I
ever use any other identifying
information
besides
- -.
Did
names for the individuals
who were speaking?
:
5
know whether
the
speaker
was inside
the
embassy
proper
I
I
you ever
I
!
i
or whether
6
'7
i
-the
speaker
Mr.
9
5
10
not
put
down
know,who
"Man Outside",
Usually
12
booth
13
in
on duty
T4
well,
I5
all
this
3
fellow
son
15
which
20
that
Mr.
21
calls
have
individual
came
to
let
in
and
them
Yes,
the
know
if
I
in,
you
from
the
I
I
i
the
small
people
usually
I knew personally,
the
caller
wants,
he
building.
transcription
of
the
do you ever
language
spoken
to any prior
reference
had
Tarasoff.
answers
three
voices
main
In your
make
comes
came to
were
whatever
to the
you ever
especially
call
embassy
So, their
as to the quality
or did
the
There
answers,
call
easy,
or whoever
the
gate.
time.
I
man inside.
to
the
Genzman.
comments
18
the
the
Mr.
17
calls
of
If
'"MO",
down "MI",
the
front
transfers
16
the
was speaking.
you put
I
embassy?
-.
Oh, that was very
Tarasoff.
did
embassy
!l
was outside
make
by the
per-;
conversation
iI
i
made?
I had
fellow
exactly
I
to
do that
speaks
how he
because
Russian.
I
sometimes
Well,
you
I
would‘
talks.
::
FOT
^Z 'i Mexico
L/
,I
/.
instance,
City
who
there
spoke
were
Russian,
several
either
Jewish
with
merchants
a Jewish
..
.'
in
accent
or
.:',
l-19
rather
poorly.
first
So I would
probably,
because
and forth,
his
you do not
have
terrible
put
wife
Mr.
be able
later
wanted
on if
to have
to mention
accent
down his
make a comment
every
when you knew
to that
this
fellow
called
a furcoat
time
that
exactly
effect
;i
at
1
back
+
i
i
and so forth,
he speaks
who the
fellow
with
a
was and
name.
Genzman.
Do you think
to recognize
at
a transcript
this
time
which
that
you would
you had made in
I
1963?
I
Mr.
Tarasoff.
recognize
is
a long
my mode of typing
Mr.
helped
It
Genzman.
Tarasoff.
Mr.
Genzman.
in your
That
is
ago.
I think
i
I would
i
I
out.
it
You mentioned
you on occasion
Mr.
time
earlier
that
your
wife
operatiqns.
4
;I
right.
Can you tell
us exactly
how she assisted
z'I
I
I
I
i
!
you?
Mr.
person
Tarasoff.
on the
Usually
line
transcribing.
that
Consequently,
particular
After
to clip
did
not
Then I would
she had a much keener
a year
there
in Hexico
she
wzs picketi
those
of hearing
she would
en2ies
take
At
City,
but
up,
2nd
need any translation,
ask my wife
sense
conversation.
was some English-speaking
first
over
to
listen.
than
I.
she
ii
she was not
gave me ail
pz-ste
therr.
Of course
and type
she was helping
out
help
on a paper
!
.:
this
working
me out
the
just
for
nevertheless.
necessary
and stamp
the
2
t
*:I
$
z>
><
$
c
l-20
date
and so forth.
1
Mr.
Genzman.
Would
it
be fair
to
say that
your
wife
2
,
handled
the
English
language
conversation
on the
tapes
re-
!
I
i
7
ceived
and you generally
handled
the
Soviet
language
conver-
:
iations
on the
tapes
f
received?
5
Mr.
Tarasoff.
Yes,
but
sometimes
if
the
I
]
conversation
6
was simple
and not
too
I would do it myself.
-_
language
are you referring
7
Mr.
GenPnan.
Mr.
Tarasoff.
Mr.
Genzman.
.
long,
Which
I
to?
3
I
i
English.
5
Did
anyone
else
assist
you
I would
like
in your
opera-
i
I
I
I
10
tion
besides
your
wife?
!1
Mr.
Tarasoff.
No.
You see,
to
explain,
~1
12
were
completely
kind
of
removed
from
the
embassy.
If
we got
into
I
aw'
13
jam,
we could
not
count
upon
the
help
from
the
embask
:d
or
from
the
CIA.
We were
entirely
on our
own.
15
Mr.
Genzman.
At this
time,
Mr.
Chairman,
do you have
13
any questions
concerning
the
general
surveillance
operation
1' :
in
Mexico
City
which
Mr.
Tarasoff
was involved
with?
<I
I
I
I
I
!
j
I
I
18
Mr.
Fithian.
Mr.
Sawyer.
Mr.
Fithian.
Mr.
Sawyer?
I
I
!9
Not right
now,
Mr.
Chairman.
you
said
i
20
Mr.
Tarasoff,
you worked
by your-! I
"?
“,
L-
-:
L-
self
and if
you got
cate
any association
Mr.
Tarascff.
Pk.
Fithiar;.
into
with
That
any diff
the
is
You mailed
iculty
agency
correct,
you were
or b;ith
the
not
to indi-l
embassy?
sir.
b ack the
translations
on a
I
1-21
regular
,
I
I
!
i
I
basis?
1
Mr.
Tarasoff.
It
was
not
mailed.
It
was
delivered
i
2
;
personally.
3
..
)
1
Mr.
Fithian.
So you
Mr.
Tar&off.
No.
went
to
the
embassy
daily?
- -.
We had a courier,
or whoever
he was,;
5
who would
pick
up the
stuff
and deliver
the
next
batch
.
to me i
6
to be transcribed.
Mr.
I
I
I
..
'7
Fithian.
How long
did
you work
at
this
job?
I
8
5
think
10
you mentioned
Mr.
Tarasoff.
Mr.
Fithian.
it
I
. 1
t
earlier.
How long
I worked
outside?
i
i
!1
Yes,
I
in Mexico.
1
12
Mr.
Tarasoff.
About
c
Mr.
Fithian.
I have no other
Mr.
Genzman.
Mr.
I
questions,
counsel.
13
Tarasoff,
in
the
course
of your
duti&
1c
did
Oswald
Lee Harvey
come to your
Mr.
Tarasoff.
Mr.
Genzman.
Do you remember
Mr.
Tarsoff.
"The:tim@?
Mr.
GenPnan.
Around
i
Yes.
15
the
1
time?
i
17
i
I
18
what
period
did
Lee
Oswald.
Harvey
1;
71
come to
surveillance
Mr.
your
attention
as a result
of
your
in
duties
the
At
the
end
of
September
I think
it
!
I
i
!
operation?
Tarasoff.
. I
I
attention?
15
20
I
1
i
was,.
1963.
i
* I,
i
MI-.
Genzman.
Mr.
Tarasoff.
how did
First
he come
of
all,
to
your
he called
attention?
--
as far
as
I
:
mr-11
1
. .._
1
2
.3
:
w9
he tried
recall,
was so poor
out
to
that
I did
seeing
the
Mr.
Genzman.
Russian
not
but
I think
understand.
1-22
his
Russian
I cannot
recall
with-l
Oswald
calledi
transcript
. -_
are you saying
Mr.
speak
When you say that
he called
Tarasoff.
the
Lee Harvey
Soviet
Yes.
He called
After
that
!
i
Euibassy?
the
I
Soviet
Embassy
as faF/
6
'7
as I can remember.
Mr.
Genzman.
-.
--
let
us see what
Let me ask you this,
Mr.
-- 1
-I
.I
happened
Tarasoff.
Are
8
i
10
you saying
1963 was picked
Mr.
!I
12
17
20
was picked
Genzman.
conversation
Mr.
to
this
surveillance
say yes,
up on the
the
Soviet
I think
Embassy
in
operation?
that
is
what
tape.
Did you translate
which
was picked
Tarasoff.
two conversations.
and transcribe
.
this
up on tape?
Yes.
As far
There
might
as I remember
have
there
been more.
were
I am not
certain.
Mr.
18
17
I would
call
.
Mr.
13
15
It
Oswald's
up by means of
Tarasoff.
happened.
t3
:c
Lee Harvey
to
Genzman.
Mr.
show you several
surveillance
men,
are
packet
of
documents
operation
These
??
Tarasoff,
exhibits
which
this
time
I would
deal
with
the
and ask you to comment
documents,
contained
at
for
information
on pages
which
was
one,
given
purposes
two,
to
ten
them
Mexico
for
8
the
to
Congre,&sof
the
testimony.
Xr.
T2rasoff
$, have
you
seen
these
docu!!er\.ts
City:
on it.
and eleven
prior
like
before?
the
_
-,
1-23
r-12
Mr.
Tarasof
Mr.
Genzman.
When were
Mr.
Tarasoff.
Yesterday.
1
.---)
2
-c
6
'7
the
10
in
page,
believe
7
13
the
bottom
first
to
to first
you?
draw
your
page 'two at
Mr.
Tarasoff.
Mr.
Genzman.
Mr.
the
!
i
I
i
I
attention
bottome
of
that
corner
you-. have
document
Okay,
the
in your
in front
thank
Can you tell
of
page.
I
hand is
labeled
you?
.
of
I
i
you.
us what
you know about
1
i
i
this
Tarasoff?
/
This
Mr.
Tarasoff.
Mr.
Genzman.
left-hand
right-hand
document
Do you have
Mr.
15
the
the
document,
12
side
was written
by me.
You are referring
to
of the
states
That
Tarasoff.
page which
is
the
That
right.
handwriting
1
1
I
on
i
I
"Lienvoy"?
ls
in my handwriting;
I
the
16
Now,
17
was
18
to do it
19
number
next
this
line
Soviet
Genzman.
particular
English
beginning
Rr.
it
says '28 September,
She was not
She helped
myself.
of the
to the
where
by my wife.
stamped
Mr.
20
?!
shown
I
i
I
I
I!F'J 11.
14
these
I would like
Mr. Genzman.
- -to the document which is labeled
8
!1
Yes.
i
3
t
f.
y
with
Embassy
Mr.
me to
stamp
below
it.
and
"Please
Tarasoff.
Mr . Ger,zma.n.
portion
see
this
yet
and I had
date
and the
do you remember
Tarasoff,
conversation,
speaking
employed
63 and 15605%"~
of
I would
the
the
Spanish
recall
that
words
I
transcribing\
to refer
like
on this
I
;
you
page
i
I II
transcription*'?
Yes.
Do you
this
piece
I
i
of
paper
was,
1-24
part
of
making
your
transcription
this
This
below
it looks
- -of brackets.
Mr.
are
like
part
the
one
Would
It
material
which
not
I used,
you
explain
is
is
that
is
mine
at
with
the
slashes
what
the
But
top.
instead
slash.marks
not
to make
included
reference
in
the
to
extraIt
speech.
is
Does this
Genzman.
of the
this
transcription
page of
the
phone
transcription
conversation
agree
this
that
in
business
English
this
was
because
or
of
try
states
that
we had
to
person
spoke
in
‘:
your
recoiiection
of
pay too
it
their
Russian.
not
earlier
broken
OS-waldls
does,
but
of
much attention
callers
I did
You stated
Oswald
several
practice
nc importance
Mr . Genma.n.
not
your
say that
safely
we did
time,
Does
and a person
City?
I can
your
of
in
m . Tarasoff.
with
recollection
Soviet
Mexico
agree
with
Lee Harvey
at
broken
Oswald?
involving
course
in
involving
a conversation
Embassy
and says
my comment.
recollection
k-ith
recall
.
used
"MO takes
instance,
Mr.
--
do you
a comma.
Russian",
, in
is,
._
Tarasoff.
For
3:
is
for?
Mr.
neous
like
Genzman.
used
that
transcription?
Tarasoff.
Mr.
operation,
bother
that
Fkssian.
vcice
who
speak
would
Anyway,
to
to
since
expand.
the
transcription
Does
on the
this
tape?
agree
i
!
i
..
Mr.
of his
- -That
Tarasoff.
voice
Genzman.
Mr.
Tarasoff.
spoken
to the
identify
language
it
somebody
:
he used?
i
I
was unintelligible,
who could
speak
Englfs .i.
is
conversation,
speaking
I can remember
I
i
were
as Lee Harvey
two
I am referring
Oswald\
conversations
I
that
to the
first
4
I
conversation,
I
i
document.
The first
conversation,
yes,
I think
to
document
one I have done.
I am referring
Genzman.
document
-.
the person
Tarasoff.
the
of this
by Oswald.
first
Mr.
alone
relates
at
the moment.
this
From this
to a conversation,
were
the
speaker
was Lee Harvey
Mr.
Tarasoff.
I would
and this
particular
you able
document
to determine
i
Oswald?
have
no idea
who was talking
i
1
I
at
I
iI
I
time.
Mr.
10,
what
Russian,
got
As a result
Genzman.
Mr:
that
i
!
he used
probably
Tarasoff.
Mr.
that
I
f
i
tone
i
to
Mr.
which
the
he said.
If
Genzman.
you able
that
recall
on.
Mr.
were
I cannot
Can you recall
why they
is
later
Unfortunately
or what
Mr.
l-2<
the
Genzman.
document
Mr.
Tarasoff.
Mr.
Genzii+r..
Mr.
Ta.rasoff
I would
,laSeled
Yes,
Could
.
It
next
"FlO'!
_
like
at
I have
the
to refer
you to
bottom
right-hand
I
page
;
corner.
it.
you
identify
ioo>;s
exactly
this
like
document?
the
way
I WOLX.
do it.
Jar-15
l-2
It
was inconsequential
a mistake
in
particular
phone
if
Genzman.
independent
the
number.
number
Mr.
- -.
at
time.
I do not
he knew
Aside
of
Tarasoff.
Mr.
Genzman.
Yes.
Mr.
Tarasoff.
No,
the
from
recollection
Mr.
It
This
could
this
embassy
document
type
particular
been
know why he called
previous
this
have
of
number.
do you
have
i
any
conversation?
one?
I
f
1
-1
i
I
I
was rather
run-of-the-mill
conver-
I
I:
sation.
Mr.
your
i
I
i
i
this
-.
it
P
just
Genzman.
attention
right-hand
Mr.
Mr.
to
the
corner.
Tarasoff,
document
Could
Tarasoff.
This
.
I would
you
is
labeled
identify
definitely
.
next
like
to
"Pl"
in
the
this
document?
direct
bottom
mine.
Mr. Genzman.
What makes you say that?
.
I
j
Mr. Tarasoff.
Because I underlined
-- maybe I will
‘I
j/ start
from the beginning.
il
We got a request
from the station
to see if we can pick
jl
i/ up the name of this person because sometimes
we had a so-call'd
7
I
"defector"
from
the
States
that
wanted
to
go to Russiai
I
and we had to keep
i
/
J‘:
.i
1;
United
an eye on them.
Consequently
They said,
"If
Therefore,
it
they
you
can
were
get
very
the
Not
hot
name,
I --
about
rush
the
the
it
station.
whole
over
thing.
immediately
11
4
i
ia
ji
::
I
cause
.I
iias
I put
is
them
so inpcrtarit
very
in
seldom
ca?itais.
to then.
that
In
I underlined
this
case
the
I did
name bebecause
it
a
1-27
Mr.
1
Genzman.
Can you tell
us exactly
what
I
lead
I;
to this
I
!
request?
2
3
t
Mr.
Tarasoff.
What?
Mr.
Genzman.
Can you tell
US exactly
what
Fequest?
s
lead
to this
it.
That
*
Mr.
I have
Tarasoff.
no idea
what
lead
to
j
5
'7
9
was my only
main
this
and deliver
person
Mr.
;
point,
to find
it
the
name,
as soon as possible
Can you speculate
Genzman.
to get
the
name of
to the
as to why this
*1
.‘ I
static@/
i
request
,
was made?
10
Mr.
It
Tarasoff.
would
be simply
a speculation.
If
h?
!I
called
12
the
they
I3
really
Mr.
16
bility
15
that
the
with
consequently
18
and-'our
be pressed
people
to get
Are you saying
Oswald
to
you dealt
17
would
Genzman.
addition
16
Cuban Embassy
spoke
to the
Soviet
Embassy
in your
operation
made an urgent
knew about
the
then
then
name.
that
there
Cuban Embassy
personnel
is
that
a poss$-
personnel
and that
made that
request
it,
the
connection
this
person
in
people
and
I
be
t
i
identified?
19
Mr.
20
that
??
is
Mr.
Tarasoff.
exactly
There
what
Genzman.
this
dot-Lrnent
believe
that
it
is
a possibility,
I think,
i
that
I
i
*.
happened.
Again,
cerning
Yr . TarzsorLf.
‘,
i
can you tell
labeled
was done
h?hich
"PI'!
b;; you?
one,
"Fl"?
at
us what
the
bottom
features
con-
:
lead
you tg
:
-
--
1-28
Mr.
1
m
L
is
5
- -.
dent
6
'7
3
or
stated
earlier
that
"Lee
Oswald"j
i
i
I
I
!
Tarasoff.
Yes.
Mr.
Genzman.
Do you
remember
this
conversation
indepen-i
1
this
document?
Mr.
Tarasoff.
Mr.
Genzman.
Independently,
Do you
during
Russian
Mr.
this
Tarasoff.
must
have
no.
remember
whether
Oswald
spoke
Engli
conversation?
As far
Whenever
English.
it
You
Mr.
of
t
ic)
I
Yes.
underlined?
3
:
Genzman.
slip
h
I
as I remember,
he did
1
he was
a couple
words
i,
speaking
of
Russian
in,
i
I
been unintelligible.
?!
Mr.
There
Genzman.
is
a comment
between
slash
marks
ori
who
phoned
.
a day
o&
12
13
:6
this
page which
states,
so ago and spoke
15
Mr.
Tarasoff.
Mr.
Genzman.
in
"The
.
broken
same
person
I
Russian".
Yes.
!
i
15
1T
this
18
19
20
57
person
Are you now saying
spoke
Mr.
Tarascff.
Mr.
Genzman.
English
in
that
and not
I believe
in
that.
1
Russian?
he spoke
Based on this
you believe
in
i
English.
possible
i
discrepancy,
do you!
I
have any feeling
a forgery
to being
opposed
original
this
document
or an amended
is
authentic
version
of
as
the
i
I
docment?
Mr.
I cannot
Tarascfi.
a forgery.
muck!
as to whether
strange-.
I have
ai-. idea
There
b’____
in
k
---
-=.,
the
-,
conceive
.
----^-‘a,’
--,I-
the
back
whole
. ..-
this
of
\y\;y,
docu??ent
c?y head
thing,
T-:,:2
>J..
of
the
!,\C
that
spacing,
being
it
I
was
;
1-29
cannot
1
say
that
it
was
longer
Mr.
Genzman.
Do you
more
substance
than
than
recall
it
is
this
'!I
now.
I
conversation
as includ-i
2
ing
is
in
this
document
which
you
I
1
have
3
labeled
"Pl"?
Let me rephrase
that.
before
you,
- -.
1
Do you recall
items
in
the
con-
I
j
i
5
versation
---
6
Items?
Mr.
Tarasoff.
Mr.
Genzman.
Items,
of this
document
!
1
_,
'7
topics,
in
the
conversation
inde-
I
8
pendently
which
you do not
i,
see in this
s
I
document.
10
Mr.
Tarasoff.
Unfortunately
Mr.
Genzrnan.
Do you have
Oswald
having
!l
.
I am not
I do not.
certain;
i
any independent
recollection
i2
of
mentioned
his
financial
situation
during
13
this
14
conversation?
Mr.
Tarasoff.
I do not
No,
have
any recollection
II
I
of
15
-that.
The main
idea
was to get
the
name of the
person
for-
16
warded
..
Mr.
At
Genzman.
"In
appears
that,
the
beginning
of this
conversation
there
Mr.
at"
and "168"
Tarasoff,
the
which
number
is
crossed
Do you see
out.
Mr.
Tarasoff.
Mr . Genunan.
-l-
,J
1;
i!
7)
*- :i': get
^’
--
Mr.
the
Hr.
Tzrascff.
time
wher.
Genz~an.
I put
Can you
a question
tell
TYne question
the
call
30 you
czme
have
j
;
151?
20
?!
f
as soon as possible.
!8
19
I
mark
us what
mark
at the
that
means
i
time.
would
that
mean?
I did
not
through.
any
explanation
for
that
feature
:
l-30
I
Mr.
Tarasoff.
Mr.
Genzman.
viously
Can you also
transcribed"
Mr.
- -stance,
"Previously
to the
Now this
was 605055.
tell
words
first
and the
number
501264
belonged
if
the main
building
film's
office
exactly
what
to the
that
means,
embassy
So consequently
before,
the
transcribed*'
office.
scribed
us what
in-
I
;
mean?
Tarasoff.
I went
"pre-
II
I
i
i
!
No.
is
that
for
embassy
i
j
number
to the. film's
particular
call
and it
I would
went
j
out'of
had been tranq
do,
put
I
!
I
i
I:
down
I
*'previously
it
transcribed".
So there
was no question
of doing
i
twice.
Mr.
Genzman.
this
transcription
able
to identify
based
on this
to the
the
you said
earlier
not
Mr.
Genzman.
contain
It
Tarasoff.
"151.
in
Were you
to refer
you back
f
that
was just
by means of
that
conversation
like
the
any identifying
on "PZ"
earlier
Oswald".
an earlier
conversation
this
to
job
at
identify
conversation
Russian".
first.
the
The same person
broken
contafnkd
information.
a repeat
Were you able
or so ago and spoke
"Lee
I would
"P2".
Tarasoff.
Mr.
you mentioned
in
labeled
Mr.
speaking
speaker
conversation?
I believe
did
Tarasoff,
has the words
document
on "P2"
Mr.
i
i
individual
on "Pl"?
who phoned
That
is
the
a day.
one right
here.
Mr.
Genzman.
Yoc are
sag
iFiT
J from
this
conversation
you
1-31
identified
the
inference
was
that
also
- -tember
speaker
Lee
Mr.
the
speaker
it
Oswald?
of
the
Did
you
also
conversation
at
make
page
the
V2”
Oswald?
No,
Tarasoff.
--
as Lee
is
out
of
because
--
this
But
my hand.
is
the
the
28th
next
one
of
is
Sep-
October
1st.
Mr.
1st
Let
Genzman.
conversation
question.
the
Lee
Oswald,
contains
name
Tarasoff.
It
Mr.
Genzman.
The
September
It
does not
The
does
Octobei
it
not?
does.
28 conversation
does
i
not
a name?
Plx . Tarasoff.
probably
why they
Mr.
Terasoff.
Mr.
Genzman.
contained
inference
that
Lee Oswald,
Mr.
called
it
--
says
a ~ilitzr_v
So, at the
After
the
That
name.
name.
is
_
you received
the
not make any identity
the
you saw the
name Lee Oswald,
speaker
the
in
I guess
the
attache'
the
same speaker
exbassy
1 was not
?!r . Genmaii.
time
the
September
of the
speak&
?
No.
Tarasoff.
to that
contain
to know the
you could
Mr.
which
wanted
Genzman.
28 conversation
---:
the
Mr.
contain
was
me rephrase
-.
sl.ze
did
Tarasoff,
it
you then
this
is
conversation
I
1
!
I
i
!,
make the
28 conversation
who spoke
and identified
whether
1st
September
he called
cr znJ'-xz;'
Pk.
October
on October
up atid
Sust
previous
I think
himself.
particular
number
one of the
I am asking
lst?
was
Soviet's,
w-nether
you zt
IW-21
l-33
any time
1
were
able
to
identify
the
speaker
Mr.
Tarasoff.
Mr.
Genzman.
3
4
- --
5
speakers
6
same person?
under
s
Did
you
ever
28 and
Tarasoff.
I sure
Genzman.
Thank you.
10
Mr.
Fithian.
Mr.
where
you made that
Mr.
i2
October
the
inference
1st
were
right
here,
that
one
and
under
the
the
item
151,
you
exactly!
"Pl".
Mr.
!!
make
did,
f
13
I have
I did
follow
It
is
I
on "Pl"
and starts
"The same person
::
ago and spoke
in
Russian'!.
15
refers
"P2".
to the
not
indication.
Tarasoff.
slash
Tarasoff,
marks,
broken
who
That
at
151 and then
phoned
a day or so
particular
i
II
I
-'
sentence
I
I
Mr.
15
/
make the
!8
recollection
Genzman.
of
20
Mr.
Genzman.
last
language
-,
i38 speaker
>
voice
Would
October
1st
Saturday
was
two
from
the
that
you were
speakers
based
September
able
to
the
you
also
state
1
on your
i
28 transcript?
whether
conversation,
to
sax-ie as
to
the
your
the
I quote
inference
October
that
1st
---.
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the
"I
was at
the
September
naxiely
1
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yousi
that
speaker,
,,c
language
did
consul”,
L.ee Osvaid?
.,
c___.
/
I
I
ar,d spoke
contribute
also
the
then
Exactly.
Tarasoff.
on " Pl " , the
between
the
Mr.
p-lace
Are you saying
connection
15
L-
iI
September
No.
on September
Mr.
7
-:
the
28 conversation?
2
.-
in
I
l-33
1
Mr.
Tarasoff.
Mr.
Genzman.
Yes.
Mr.
Tarasoff,
do you recollect
any other
ii
Oswald's
!
2
conversation
or any other
details
about
Lee Harvey
3
..
?
1
calls?
. -Mr.
Tarasoff.
Unfortunately
I-do
not
recollect
any more
you
remember
5
conversations.
6
Y;r. Genzman.
Can you say-. whether
'7
other
calls
by Oswald
or any other
details
which
any
are
.
i
I
not
I
I
a
reflected
in
these
documents,
the
three
we have
shown
you?
9
Mr.
Tarasoff.
Mr.
Genzman.
Mr.
few more
questions
concerning
To be frank
I do not
remember
any
I
iI
1
other.'
10
Tarasoff,
I would
like
to ask you a
I
I
!l
voice
comparison.
Did
you as
12
13
Id
a routine
procedure
in the
identify
conversation
Mr.
if
Tarasoff.
the
voices.of
the
I
-' 1
participants
you could?
Would
you repeat
I
I
that?
i
15
i
Mr.
Genzman.
Did you identify
the
voices
of these
peo&
15
'7
I,
:a
speaking
on the
^l
you
it e was not
to
Would
do so?
I certainly
difficult,
you identify
them
you
would
could
not
because
I
i
mistake
them,
1
I
anybody
i
some.of
them
for
I
else.
make use cf
-c
--
able
Tarasoff.
Mr . Genzman.
7,
--
were
transcript?
Mr.
I9
20
if
As Tart
identification
of
this
tapes
procedure,
and
did
comparisons
you
ever
between
tapes?
Yr.
Tarascff.
ri0.
They
wondered
whether
I
corrld
preserve
,. -
1-34
r
d-23
:
I
!
,
I
I
I
I
i
1 ;
2j
the
voices,
the
tape.
Mr.
3 1
with
- -.
fj
*
=
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CI
5i
i1
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i
zVI
'
P.
cu
huC
=
zc
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7
9
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r;'
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i
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0
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rL
take
the
Genzman.
whom Oswald
Mr.
voice
Were you able
spoke
during
eight
Lee Oswald
sequently,
he does
at the
not remember
to him and yet
it
the
to identify
any of
of
the peopl?
8I
,
"Pl",
the.first,
Usually
-.call
to
;,
;
I
i
i
Con-
him.
He said
0byed;Kov.
consul
a
changed
they
comes through
name of the
was probably
section
conversation?
gate.
talking
was
the
out
instance,
The first
hours.
cut
this
for
Here,
Tarasoff.
Obyed Kov was a guard
every
samples,
that/
I
I
who was speaking
Kostikov.
It
says,
any time
asked
"My name isi
Oswald".
Mr.
Genzman.
assassination
of President
any of the
Mr.
Were you at
people
Kennedy
who spoke
to
whether
you could
to the
:[
identify!
that,
i
I
I
Oswald?
Would you repeat
Tarasoff.
prior
!
please?
i
:’
Did anyone ever ask you to make any idents;
Mr. Genzman.
II
Q:
3. 'Y
ication
of the people who spoke with Oswald at any time
In. ‘T/i
1, f
"-‘
i' before
the assassination
of President
Kennedy?
2s- 18
ul
I
You mean from our field
office?
Mr. Tarasoff.
=t
'?
/,
c
cc
Yes.
Mr. Genzman.
n 20 j/
I
No one approached
us.
No.
Mr. Tarasoff.
YV"+.- -I'_ !a
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a--Y
I
:(
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-z
--
Mr.
to
make
Mr.
collect.
Genzman.
any
Did
anyone
identification
Tarasoff.
of
&a ii-l
ask
you
the
speakers
I would
say
after
no,
the
in
not
assassinatioD'
these
that
j
j
i
1
/
I
-transcripts::
I can
!
ye-
._
.i,,:
:i
mr-24
l-35
2
3
4
to try
- -.
ing
3
12
.-: .
Genzman.
ever
any
speakers
of
the
ask >wU to compare
in
operation
any
of
tapes
the
conver-
i
Mr.
Genzman.
Do you happen
in Mexico
City?
chief
the
Mr.
because
Would
was involved
1,ci
Mexico
7!
busy
you
say
you regar@i
person
the
chief'of
a bit.
-‘*
she
worked
as far
the
station
with
closely
in
so because
say
carbon
remember
Are you saying
the
the
telephone
--
well,
Another
copies.
her
family
then
that
surveillance
she was
one
name.
AnneGoodpastirc
operation
in
iCity?
t4r . Tarasoff.
Hot
with
else
something
the
ca~bor!
ccpies
?Ir . T'arascff
the
.
of
Yes,
telephone
but,
You are
Yr . Genman.
Of
quite
one of the
Genzman.
1s
her
I would
1 do not
Rose --
Mr.
I.
station?
one who was getting
I8
important
she was with
of favored
Tarasoff.
to
contact
be era=
to know Aim Goodpastor's
She was a pretty
Genzman.
of
ever
would
No.
Tarasoff.
Mr.
tapes
on Oswald?
Tarasoff.
kind
those
Did Ann Goodpast&
Mr.
and they
went
Sometimes
No.
surveillance
as I can judge
15
I3
Mr.
Mr.
13
!d
Tarasoff.
function
10
!i
identify
Mr.
the
'7
-/
to
Did anyone
sations?
5
6
Genzman.
Mr.
1
anyk-ay,
sayings
your
w?er:
She was
surveillance.
she
that
she
kept
did
the
records.
receive
one
t-anscription?
I was
working
inside
the
f
1-36
embassy
on TDY I had
and
I think
the
chief.
one
to
went
give
one
someplace
copy
else,
to
her,
the
one
to
original
Rose
went
i
to
.
1
I
Mr.
Do you
Genpnan.
know
whether
AnncGoodpast&&had
- --
any knowledge
of
the
photo
surveillance
operations
in
Mexico
Nr.
Tarasoff.
Mr.
Genzman.
directly,
Mr.
there
I believe
Did
best
of your
of flurry
place
happened?"
I did
When I came back
a dejected
Then it
fell
I
a bit.
all
they
opera-
were
the
As I remember,
i
employees
!
trying
at the
i
to recruit
air
right
not
that
i
empty.
like
I
I thought,
1
i
I
I
know.
I did
later,
not
on its
they
know what
by somebody
through
and stuff
was practically
a few hours
was explained
Naturally
walkie-talkies
everything,
One day the
What
surveillance
defectors.
They tested
this.
the
i
I
1
knowledge?
between
What was happening,
the
with
Let me d&gress
was a sort
one of
tion
-. she did.
she work
to the
Tarasoff.
station.
such
i
1
i
I
City?
tion
I
I
I
that
said
did
return
the
that
with!
heck
happene,. c!l
this
opera-
face.
I know Anr+Goodpast&*felt
badly
about
it
and
I
i
!
1
i
j/
t
the chief
and everybody
else
was concerned.
:/
*d
?1
11
;!
Ml?. Genznan.
document
-:
--
I!
deternine
labeled
that
Mr.
"PI'!,
TaFasoff,
referring
you stated
Lee Oswald
spcke
earlier
in
this
you back
tc
you F;ere able
conversation
the
to
and that,
0
he,
in
fact,
identified
himself
during
this
conversation?
,
I
1
Mr.
Tarasoff:
That
Mr.
Genzman.
is
right.
2
Did you at any time
or in
any manner
City,
which
indi-i
3
t
cate
to any
of your
contacts
in Mexico
i
other
I
- --
conversations
were
those
of
Oswald
besides
i
"Pl"?
1
!
5
Tarasoff.
Mr.
No.
I passed
the
whole
shebangto
6
contact,
in
words,
we got
other- I
I
on this
I
1
4
I
everybody
should
i
fact,
9
one.
I sent
the
I thought
1@
be able
In
we had to call
a special
meeting.
-.
the name and immediately
had to work
'7
s
the
whole
okay,
to listen
to
thing
back.
if
they
got
it
because
the
it
tape,
is
in
English.
Whatever
!l
broken
Russian
he spoke
was terrible.
12
Mr.
Genzman.
In characterizing
your
contact
with
the
13
Lee Harvey
Oswald
case
would
you
say that
any
of
your
contact
the
request
14
with
the
case
was out
of the
ordinary,
aside
from
15
15
to your
Mr.
IT
20
11
transcribing
Tarasoff.
ments
allegedly
Oswald
your
had
ordinary
the
of
ct‘ner
request
Mr.
Tarasoff.
the
ordina-y
these
thari
an urgent
with
Soviet
course.
to
do
that,
Eknbassy.
previous
one
Well > the
?le had
of
please?
which
two
docu-
Lee Harvey
Would
you characterize
as in
any
statement
the
I
on "Fl"?
been discussing
conversations
conversations
your
conversation
We have
Certainly.
dealing
with
handling
the
Would you repeat
PP. Genzman.
18
13
subsequently
out
way
that
of the:
you received
transcriptions?
p-evious
a sus-,icior?_
ones
that
were
Lee
just
Oswald
in
i
!
i
!
i
1
.
yar-27
1-38
1
2
3
1
-C
6
'7
9
could
!I
12
13
been a defector,
a routine
thing
send it
back
to do,
the
to
according
to type
Then
to bring
to
their
the
with
station
They had all
Mr.
this
this
the
committee
at
Other
were
agency,
any other
veillance
facilities
than
you ever
the
agency
against
Mr.
Genzman.
Thank you.
15
Mr.
Chairman,
I have
17
Ii
Mr.
Fithian.
Mr.
Mr.
Sawyer.
Mr.
Fithian.
lj
entire
Mr.
questions
have
either
with
Xr . Fithian.
witness'
testi;nony.
Commission,
. 1i
Oswald
in
of
the
sur-
Mexico
City-?
no further
questions
Mr.
witness
Chairman,
you
their
I have
or
i
I
I
I
anyone.
at
this
time.'
Sawyer?
of the
after
by any
i;
1
I
with
connection
Chairman.
Do I understand
Mr.
60.
i
No questions,
Genzman.
concluded
Warren
I
too.
members
FBI,
I
!
back
doing
contacted
the
it
to listen
any time
from
i
I underlined
like
with
your
to see
I sent
contact
Not a word
questioning
it,
your
Lee Harvey
Tarasoff.
:4
to
for
to explain
operation
which
station
the
and
I
the
at
CIA,
request
I
i
1
!
I
was
transcription
They would
reel..,
To me it
the
came
attention
the
Genzman.
government
or
particular
Mr.
-:--
up all
station.
this,
to
if I could get the name the next day.
a s
So, when I got this
particular-name,
2"
10
have
that
by
of
questions,
no questions
completes
the
counsel?
we will
any
this
the
if
have
several
other
you
have
on this
more
Congressmen
any.
segment
of
the
I
i
1-39
Mr.
Mr.
Genzman.
Tarasoff,
recollection
of any other
Oswald
you dealt
which
of
I do not
this,
Mr.
matter
other
than
involving
than
the
Lee Harvey
three
!
i
documents
/
today?
there
were
any conversations
Do .you have any recollection
which
the
other
i;
any independent
Ii
[
outside
.. i
:
I
recollect.
Genzman.
subject
conversations
with
we have been discussing
- -If
Mr. Tarasoff.
do you have
Oswald
discussed
in
iI
of any other
.I
any conversation
i
!
I
---
I
Mr.
Tarasoff.
Mr.
Genzman.
Mr.
Personally,
Mr.
Sawyer.
recollection
Chairman,
You answered
of any other
said,
"Personally,
word
*'personally"?
no.
nd".
I have
no further
that:were
there
Do you have
any
significance
information
questions.:
I
I
you had any
i
!
You i
discussed.
as to whether
subjects
Is
I4
I1
to the
on it
some other
I
i
way?
Mr.
Tarasof
conversation,
but
Mr.
Sawyer.
Mr.
Tarasoff.
Mr.
Sawyer.
versation
Mr.
a much
Well,
f.
my wife
I do not
Did
recollect
she say what
Pardon
Did
she
thinks
that
there
was anot@@
it.
i
I
she thought
it
was about?
other
I
I
con-! I
another
one,
me?
say what
she thought
the
was about?
Tarasoff.
longer
v-la. . Sawyer.
one
She sail
thar;
this.
That
is
there
must
a_11 I kave.
have
been
Thank
you.
i
l-40
Mr.
being
Preyer.
Thank
you
very
much.
We appreciate
your
i
. i
here.
We will
(Whereupon,
take
a five
the
minute
subcommittee
- -.
recess
at
adjourned
this
at
time.
5:00
p.m.1
i
I
I
1
I
._
/
i
/
-
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3381
HOUSE
OFFICE
BUILDING
ANNEX’NQ.
2
Hon. ____
Haxo~d._S,.__S-a~gre~-(Exec.
Sess. )
Date of Transcript JQri11_U,-39-
)
Please review and make necessary changes in
diction or expression, or to correct any errors in
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_______
--_---__________~ ___
Signature of Member
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Chief Clerk.
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