Queensland
Parliamentary Debates
[Hansard]
Legislative Council
THURSDAY, 18 JULY 1872
Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy
Privilege-
[18 JULY.]
Council Expenditure.
655
provrswn of the sums necessary for its mainten•
ance; but looking at the danger to the independ·
ence of your Honorable House, which, from
whatever cause arising, the existence of such a
state o:l' things might entail, your committee
recommend that steps should be taken to prevent,
if possible, a recurrence of the same."
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.
Thursday, 18 July, 1872.
Appol'tionment of Governor's Salary. -Privilege-Council
Expenditure.- Land Orders Bill.
APPORTIONMENT OF GOVERNORS'
SALARY.
The PRESIDENT moved, pursuant to noticeThat an Address be presented to His Excel·
lency the Governor, praying that His Excellency
will be pleased to cause to be laid on the Table of
this House a copy of the opinions of the Law
Officers of the Crown in England, as forwarded
by the Secreta1·y of State's Circular to the Gover·
nors of the Australian Colonies, in reference to the
power of the Secretary of State to apportion the
emoluments of office in the case of Governor and
Officers temporarily administering the Govern·
ment in these colonies ; also a copy of the opinion
of the Attorney-Geneml of Queensland on the
same subject, as addressed to Sir M. C. O'Connell,
when administering the Government of this
colony.
He saicl his object was merely that those
papers should be in the hands of honorable
members when the Governors' Salary Bill,
which was to be read the second time on Tuesday next, was brought forward for discussion.
vVhen the papers were produced, honorable
members would be aware of all the circumstanees which necessitated the passing of such
a measure ; and, as he understood that there
was no objection to the motion, he presumed
that the papers would be produced.
Question put and passed.
P RIVILEGE-COUNOIL EXPENDITURE.
Upon the Order of the Day for Lhe adoption
Orders Corn·
of the report from the Standin(J'
0
mittee being read,
'l'he PRESIDENT said: As Chairman of the
Standing Orders Committee, it is my duty
now to.move the adoption of the report which
was la1d upon the table on the last day of
meeting, and which I presume is in the hands
of honorable gentlemen. It was referred to
that committee to take into consideration the
circumstance which I had brought before
the notice of this House, that, for the month
of May, the salaries, and contingent expenses
of the Legislative Council had not been
provided for; but, when the committee met, I
was enabled to inform them that the difficulty
no longer existed, and had passed away,
" and that the establishment of your Honorable
Houoe is no longer inconvenienced bi}' the non•
2 'r
The committee thought that, looking at the
danger to the independence of the Council
which the non-provision of the necessary estimates menaced, it would be advisable to take
some steps in the matter ; and upon examin·
ing the Journals, it was found that a similar
que~tion had been before the House in 1866
-not brought about in the same way, because
this was, no doubt, the :first instance in which
the House had been left without provision of
any sort for its expenses. At that time, some
interference was attemJlted by the Legislative
Assembly with the est1mates proposed for the
Legislative Council; and some gentlemen
who indulged in theories oflegislation thought
they might very well dispense with certain
officers in this House. As we did not coincide
in that opinion, we resisted the attmn.J>t to
provide for us by anybody outside this House,
and we agreed to an address to the Governor,
Sir George Bowen, to the following effect :YouR EXCELLENCY" vVe, the Members of the Legislative Council of
Queensland, in Parliament assembled, beg leave to
address Your Excellency with a view to suggest
some measure which may serve to avoid any
disagreement with the Legislative Assembly in
reference to the Salaries or Establishment of
0 ftl.cers attached to the Council.
" Under the present system of voting Annual
Salaries, the Legislative Council cannot but appre·
hend that circumstances may arise which might
lead to a collision between the two Houses.
" 'Ihe Legislative Council cannot for a moment
allow that the formation or control of its establish·
ment should rest with any body in the State,
other than with the Legislative Council itself.
"It will be evident to Your Excellency, that
the power to interfere with its establishment, if
used injudiciously, might paralyze the action of
the Legislative Council, and prevent the full
·exercise of the co-ordinate jurisdiction which the
Constitution has conferred upon it-and that,
thm·efore, it is essential this power should remain
full and entire as a. Constitutional safeguard to the
Legislative Council itself.
"'We would submit to Your Excellency, that
the practice in the Parliament of Great Britain
is, as stated to the House of Commons by the
Report of a Select Committee which was appointed
on the 22nd February, 1848, for ' The Treasury
to receive an estimate of the expenses of the
House of Lords, and to submit a vote to the
House of Commons to cover the deficiency of the
Fee Fund.
"' This Vote and Estimate have passed without
alteration by the Treasury or the House of Commons, there being an unwillingness to canvass the
details of the accounts submitted by so high
a Judicial 'fribunal, as well as a Branch of
Legislature.'
" 'Ve would also submit, that in the colonies
of South Australia, Taamania, and Victoria1 the
"MAY IT PLEASE
656
Land Orders Bill.
[ASSEMBLY.]
Payment qf Members.
establishments of their respective Legislative ' the proceedings of the select committee that
Councils are partially or entirely preserved from
had been appointed in a previous session to
discussion or alteration under Annual Vote by
inquire into and to report upon the Bill. The
statutory enactments.
committee had not brought up a report, but
"To avoid, therefore, as far as is possible, the
he was satisfied ; and if the Bill now about
occurrence of so great a public evil as a serious
to be read the third time was only what it
disagreement between the two Houses of Parliapretended to be, a measure to bring such
ment would amount to, we beg to approach Your
land orders as were at the present time valueExcellency with a request that Your Excellency
less to the holders into a kind of circulation
will cause to be laid before Parliament a Bill
at a reduced valne, upon personal application,
framed in accordance with the Estimates, as last
he had no more objection to it. He was
submitted from this House, to secure to the
always against non-transferable land orders,
Legislative Council, in support of its dignity and
and in favor of granting others in their place.
independence, the services of a sufficient numbm•
He should offer no further opposition to the
of competent and suitably paid officers, and also to
Bill, and with the explanation he had given,
provide for its contingent expenses."
he should support its passing.
That address, having been adopted by the
Council, was presented to the Governor ; and
Question put and affirmed.
some days afterwards, the representative of
the Government made the following statement:" I am commanded by His Excellency the
Governor to state that His Excellency laid the
Address from the Legislative Council, dated on
the 3rd Octobe1•, before his Responsible Advisers,
and, on behalf of my colleagues and myself, I beg
to inform the House, that the matters referred to
in that Address will receive the earnest consideration of the Ministers during the recess."
The late Mr. Gore was then PostmasterGeneral; and the Ministry of which he was
a member, went out of office in a very short
time afterwards, I think. The matter has
slept ever since; but being brought up again
by the fact of supplies not having been voted
to keep up the Council establishment during
last May, the Standing Orders Committee
l1ave thought it desirable to recommend
that steps should be taken to prevent the recurrence of such a state of things ; and they
think that the adoption of a similar address
to that, made applicable to the present circumstances, should be presented to His Ex·
cellency the Governor. I will therefore conclude by moving,
That the report of the Standing Orders Committee be now adopted by this House.
And, when this motion is disposed of, I shall
move that the Standing Orders Committee be
instructed to bring up an address to the
Governor on the next day of meeting, for the
consideration of the Council.
·
Question put and passed.
The PRESIDENT then movedThat it be an instruction to the Standing
Orders Committee to prepare and bring up an
Address to His Excellency the Governor, on
Tuesday next.
Question put and passed.
LAND ORDERS BILL.
On the motion for the third reading of this
Bill,
The Hon. J. C. HEUSSLER said he thought
that, at this stage, It was only due to the
House that he should offer a few observations on the subject before them. He had '
made some inquiries for information about