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Expert: Chito Sta. Romana
Interviewer: Lucio Pitlo III
Chito Sta. Romana is one of the Philippines' foremost China experts. He spent more than 40 years in China as a
veteran journalist for an American media company, ABC. He took his Bachelors in Liberal Arts and Commerce at
De La Salle University and his Masters in International Studies from Tufts University in Boston.
Pitlo: Can you tell us how you developed your interest in China Studies? Was it something you planned for?
Sta. Romana: No. In a sense, it was actually accidental. My interest in China basically came as a result of my
involvement in the student activist movement during Martial Law. I was then a young student leader in De La
Salle University, where activism was unpopular. My batch was in fact among those who pioneered it. I was part
of the Council and the student organ, and I was exposed to the movement through contacts with colleagues
from UP and other universities, from the National Union of Students of the Philippines (NUSP), and from the
College Editors Guild of the Philippines (CEGP). I was very active as head of NUSP-Manila. This experience really
led me to the student movement. I graduated in 1970, right after the First Quarter Storm. And I knew
renowned student leaders like Edgar Jopson, who was then the Head of Ateneo's Student Council, while I
headed that of La Salle. As contemporaries, we were together during the first demonstration in Congress
during former President Marcos' State of the Nation Address. NUSP organized it, and we marched to Congress
together with other protesters.
After graduation, I went to UP where I enrolled for a Masters in Economics degree. I took about 21 or 24 units
but did not do a thesis. After that, I went on to obtain some units on Asian Studies from the UP Asian Center. I
became more involved in student activism since I was already in UP, the bastion of the movement in the
country. At around this time, China was under the Cultural Revolution, where students and the youth played
prominent roles. Student power was very popular the world over. Like other students then, I saw a lot of ills in
society, the disenchantment against Marcos' Martial Law, and his rigging of the elections to stay in power.
Pitlo: Would you say that Filipino student activists at that time looked to China as their role model?
Sta. Romana: Yes. One model. Student activism was becoming a model for effecting change. While I was in my
junior year at La Salle, I got a grant through the university and the US Embassy to travel in the U.S. for three (3)
months. Travelling to different universities like University of California Berkeley and Columbia University,
among others, exposed me further to the student movement, which was very popular in the U.S. Student
activists strongly opposed the Vietnam War. This experience impressed on me the value of student power as a
source of inspiration and as a model.
When I came back to La Salle, that was actually one of the things I introduced and advocated in the Student
Council. La Salle's students then were very formal and constrained; they were trained to be company
executives. We just wanted more academic freedom—more freedom to write for the newspaper and an end to
school uniforms. Even though I was In La Salle, I started taking courses in UP during the summer break. I took
courses in history and Philippine nationalism under Professor Mila Guerrero. I brought back the ideas I learned
from these courses to La Salle. In UP, I also took courses on Jose Rizal's novels Noli Me Tangere and El
Filibusterismo which were not taught at La Salle then. Back then, we had this Nationalist Committee in the
Student Council, which became involved in national and international student politics. My student activism
deepened further while I was a graduate student at UP. Like many student activists at that time, we were
influenced by China's Cultural Revolution, which we thought demonstrated student power.
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Back then, our impression was that Red Guards was part of student power and youth rebellion. We did not
know that it eventually went out of control. Cultural Revolution was a model at that point, and the young Red
Guards conveyed the sense that rebellion was justified. What they did and what really transpired during that
time only came after, with the benefit of hindsight.
I started reading about China and Maoism, trying to know what was going on there and if the Philippines could
draw lessons from China's experience. And of course in UP, there was already a strong leftist movement which
saw China as a model. In a sense, that was a confluence of events. Aside from the Cultural Revolution, another
development that increased my interest in China was the ping pong diplomacy between China and the U.S. I
was already studying in UP at that time. The attempts by the two big countries to establish relations were big
news. Later on, Chairman Mao and U.S. President Nixon would conclude a historic meeting. That was the
moment I became really curious. What was China doing? What developments in the international scene
prompted the Sino-U.S. rapprochement? Was it USSR and Soviet revisionism?
The international division of the socialist bloc also had its domestic reflection, with the Philippine left divided
between Joma’s (Jose Ma. Sison) group and the Lava group. Then there was also the Constitutional Convention
(Con-Con), the context from which the 1970 First Quarter Storm (FQS) grew. I already had misgivings about it.
FQS was really formative for me. People were disenchanted with President Marcos and the way the Con-Con
was going. In order to better channel and harness this protest, people had to be politicized and mobilized. And
it was on the question of how to do that that the Chinese model came into prominence. A lot of interesting
things were happening in China at this time, including the Sino-U.S. ping pong diplomacy. Big news. And then
China began to open up gradually. First, they started to invite a business delegation, followed by a women’s
delegation, and then a youth delegation. I was part of the youth delegation who was slated for a three-week
trip to China.
Pitlo: Aside from the ideological or practical inspiration that China provided, were there other factors that
motivated you to travel and experience China? Did curiosity played a part?
Sta. Romana: Yes, curiosity was there. I wanted to go to China to see what was happening there, so I joined
the youth delegation. Actually, I headed that group, which included student leaders from leading universities
like UP, La Salle, and Ateneo. We were 15 in the group. Ten managed to go home.
Pitlo: Was the group above ground?
Sta. Romana: Well, yes, it was above ground in the sense that there was a formal invitation from the People's
Republic of China, which did not have an Embassy in the Philippines at that time.
Pitlo: So how was the invitation coursed?
Sta. Romana: It is actually a long story. In 1970, there was an expo in Japan, and Keio University invited Asian
students for a conference. So we went. Present were leaders of the Student Councils of UP and La Salle. The
group includes Jerry Barican (the late lawyer, Development Bank of the Philippines Board Member, and
Presidential Spokeperson for former President Estrada) and Nelson Navarro (exiled in U.S. for 15 years; a noted
columnist and biography writer). On the way, we passed by Hong Kong, where the group actually wrote a letter
applying to go to China. After several months, the UP Student Council received a positive response: the Chinese
government was inviting a Filipino youth delegation.
However, there was a complication, since there was already a business and women’s delegations from
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Philippines who had visited China. One of the heads of the women’s delegation was Charito Planas (lawyer,
environmentalist and women's rights advocate who became Quezon CityVice Mayor and former Presidential
Spokesperson for President Macapagal-Arroyo). She was actually the one who told us that the Chinese wished
to invite a youth group, after which the invitation letter came. The Chinese were doing their small opening-up;
they were trying to invite foreigners to come in. Mao was already trying to control the excesses of the Cultural
Revolution, and with Zhou Enlai, was shifting the policy, especially towards the U.S. So that led to that
Philippine youth delegation. But there was a problem because it was then prohibited for Filipinos to travel to
the Mainland. We kept it quiet. We had to go through Hong Kong. From there, somebody from the China
travel service helped. We got a detachable visa with no Philippine mark. This way, we could go back. They took
care of us; we stayed in Hong Kong for a night or two before entering the Mainland by train. It was a quiet trip,
but the Chinese news agency announced it: “Filipino youth delegation arrived in Beijing.”
Pitlo: You mentioned that Filipinos then were barred from entering China? How did you get in? How would you
describe the trip?
Sta Romana: To get to the Mainland, we took the Lo Wu bridge in Shenzhen, which was then a sleepy fishing
village along the train station, to reach Guangzhou. From Guangzhou, we transferred to a Russian Antonov
plane.. It was then Cultural Revolution; the flight attendants were singing Maoist songs as in-flight
entertainment. It was very interesting.
There were 15 of us in the delegation. But in the airplane, it was a regular domestic flight, not a chartered one
so the passengers were mixed. We arrived in Beijing that night. Beijing Airport at that time was smaller than
Manila International Airport. Now that they have built new big airports, I think they still use the old one for
executive jets or presidential jets and chartered flights to avoid the main airport. Anyway, the old airport was
so small you could exit right away. Beijing at night then was dark, with only few lights. It was not a
cosmopolitan city.
Pitlo: So your delegation's arrival became news in China?
Sta. Romana: Well, yes, partly. The Chinese then were accepting delegates from Third World countries, and
they were starting to open towards the West. What was initially intended as a three-week trip became longer.
We were there on National Day in October, and we attended the National Day banquet.
Pitlo: So what was your initial reaction upon arriving in Beijing, the capital city of a country that you had
looked up to as a model?
Sta. Romana: I remember that one of the first questions I asked was where Chairman Mao lived. And the
question I got from one of our guides captured the prevailing mood in China at that time - Bu qingchu (Not
clear). We are not clear. And that became a common phrase. It is a substitution for saying they do not know. It
was a way of avoiding or deflecting the question.
Later on, as we were driving to Peking Hotel where we would stay, they were to tell that somewhere along the
way was the residence of the central leadership. They would not say that was where Mao lived. Anyway, we
rested in the hotel, and the next day had breakfast and meals. We saw the other foreign youth delegations.
Many were from Vietnam, for instance, because it was then the height of the Vietnam War. There were also a
mix of Africans, who were guests.
The first place we wanted to visit right away was Tiananmen Square. And so we went. Our interpreter guides
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hurriedly rushed us. They were discussing amongst themselves in their local language, but we got a sense that
we could not go there. There may have been some security issue. Anyway, we were starting to have a grasp of
the situation. It was an introduction for us. We realized that it was not proper to go out without their
permission.
Pitlo: When you got a sense of the security situation back then, did you feel that China was not a safe place?
Sta. Romana: I mean that it felt a little awkward. Eventually, you would hear more stories about the internal
politico-security challenges that China was facing. Looking back, however, we were very curious about China
and the first thing they talked about was the plan and what we wanted to see. At that point, our hosts knew we
were young student leaders, and from the suggestions we gave and also from what they were ready to show
us, there was an expectation that we would be venturing into what is now more known as red tourism or
political tourism, where guests would be shown places of interest in China's revolutionary history.
Pitlo: So eventually, you were able to see the official places of interest celebrating China's communist
revolution?
Sta. Romana: Yes. We were able to go to the official places. But aside from the usual, they also took us to
Shanghai, Guangzhou, and other key cities.
Pitlo: So the intended short trip was extended?
Sta. Romana: Yes. Originally, the trip was only for three weeks. But on our first week, actually on the same
night or second night of our arrival, we did not know that the Plaza Miranda bombing had happened in Manila.
We learned about it because one of our interpreters was asking us what the meaning of habeas corpus was. I
asked how habeas corpus came into China. We were trying to figure out what he was asking. And it turned out
indeed that something taken place back home; and that it had something to do with habeas corpus. The Plaza
Miranda bombing was reported in a reference news item (like a news bulletin) by Xinhua, which was available
in the local language but which was also distributed in English in hotel rooms. We could not get copies in our
first few days, and only really got know later on what was going on in the Philippines. We knew, however, it
was critical.
Pitlo: How were you treated and accommodated by your hosts?
Sta Romana: It was very organized. They had a Philippine section. When we landed and came out of the
airplane, there was a reception line and one young lady who greeted us in Filipino: “Kayo ba ang delegasyon ng
kabataang Pilipino?” (Are you the delegation of Filipino youths?”). As head of the delegation, I answered “Yes”
in English. Later I found out, that the Chinese lady was an announcer at Radio Peking. She was born and grew
up in the Philippines (in Binondo, Manila), and came back to China. I was surprised – she was a Binondo girl! I
was not expecting to hear a Filipino-speaking guide and interpreter. She was with us the whole trip. There was
also another Chinese-Filipina and one Indonesian who was learning Filipino. He was born and raised in
Indonesia, but came back to China as did the aforementioned Binondo lady. In his case, the suppression of the
Chinese minority, who were seen as supporters of the Indonesian Communist Party, prompted his departure.
We also had other Chinese guides/minders.
Pitlo: Did you feel a bit worried going around the city with minders around you?
Sta. Romana: Eventually, we figured it out. Since our delegation was invited, some protocols had to be
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observed. We came from and represented different schools. We did not know the protocol in China. We only
came to do so as we went along. One such formal protocol was the reception lane that had been laid out when
we came out of the plane. We were also taken into different cars in groups. As the delegation head, I was
escorted into a separate vehicle. That was when we figured out their different approach. On our first trip, we
had a big bus, but I was again placed in a separate car with a senior member of the host team. Later on, we
requested if all of us could ride in just one bus.
Pitlo: How did you make of this approach or style?
Sta. Romana: We were not used to this treatment of a visiting foreign delegation. It was actually hierarchical
when we were expecting it to be egalitarian. We laughed because we thought we were familiar with this
treatment. The Red Guards thought like this. At that point, the Red Guards had not yet received their negative
reputation, but looking back, you could already sense that it was already heading in that direction. Anyway, so
we went around the city and the university. We were shown the Forbidden City, the Summer Palace, and other
historical places. Eventually, the tour and discussion became more political.
So it was very light at first. We went around the city, and it was a great experience because we were interested
in Chinese civilization. We also visited Tiananmen Square. We also requested if we could pay a visit to a
university such as Peking University.
Pitlo: Did you have a chance to interact with local students?
Sta. Romana: That was actually an interesting thing. They brought out some students but there were no
classes. Universities were closed. We did not realize it then. We thought that the Red Guards Revolution was
the Cultural Revolution. However, while universities were closed, they were somehow in a period of reform.
They seemed to be reforming the education system. So we met instead the University Administration, some
faculty, and a handful students. We were told that most of the students were still out in the countryside. Even
the ones who were in Beijing happened to be on temporary vacation, so we did not have a lot of interaction
with students. We were really wondering. That eventually led us to propose the idea of asking and going to
where we could meet what they call the educated youth: the young, the former Red Guards.
Pitlo: So were you able to actually meet a Red Guard?
Sta. Romana: Yes. We communicated our request to meet the youngest member of the Central Committee's
leadership. Eventually, our request was granted. We met him in Shanghai. He was a Red Guard in a very high
position in the Party. But something very strange and funny was already happening. Looking back at that point,
we were already wondering. I forgot his exact age, but I would say pushing 40, late 30s pushing 40. You know,
the Chinese definition of “youth” goes further.
He was the youngest member of the Central Committee at that point. Since we were in Shanghai, we asked
him if he could share the story of the Cultural Revolution in the city. He was accompanied by an elderly person,
and it was this old man who was narrating, not the youngest Central Committee member. He was always the
one talking. During the dinner, he would also play the host and lead the talk. But during the discussion, he
never used the first-person. We were wondering why he was the one doing much of the talking. I mean, he was
telling the story.
Incidentally, it was around this time that the Lin Biao affair happened. Lin Biao was supposed to succeed
Chairman Mao, but eventually, it was discovered that he had plotted to assassinate Mao. And when the plot
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did not materialize, he tried to flee China. We did not know that these things are happening because the news
was limited to what they showed and what we saw and to the discussions we had during our trips. So one of
the things we discovered was to listen to shortwave broadcasts, Voice of America (VOA).
Pitlo: Was that allowed?
Sta. Romana: Well, one of the things we did while we were in Hong Kong was to buy a radio tape recorder
with shortwave broadcasts which we would bring back to Manila. That was what we were using. It was my first
time to listen to VOA because I didn’t usually listen to it, but because of the situation we were in, we thought it
was helpful. Actually, we wanted to follow then what was happening in the Philippines. And we found this Far
Eastern Broadcasting Station. We were listening to all the news about people being arrested, about what
happened to them and so on.
It was in the course of listening that we found out about VOA. That is how we learned about the things
happening in China. And in our naiveté, we would ask our interpreter to which she will answer back, Bu
qingchu (it is not clear). At that point, we knew there were developments in China, but as guests, we just
observed over a period of time what happen and what new developments occur. We kept going to Tiananmen
and we saw youths practicing marching. They were preparing for the National Day parade. Our hotel, Peking
Hotel, is along Tiananmen, so we often got to see these practices. As we were hearing about events in the
Philippines, we eventually got a letter from friends back home that some of us were wanted back in the
Philippines and that there was an emergency situation.
Pitlo: Was this already beyond your intended three-week period trip?
Sta. Romana: No. This was still within the three-week period when we got this information. They were able to
send us some communications, but of course, there were some delays, though we knew the news of people
being arrested because of our access to the shortwave radio. I knew some friends who were arrested.
Pitlo: Was this the time you decided to stay?
Sta. Romana: Well, we originally said, we thought that we would just stay for a while and wait for the
situation to settle down since that was the advice friends who sent the letter gave us. We were told to wait
until after the election. There would be an election in which Marcos will lose, so we thought we could go home.
What happened was that 10 of us did manage to go back home. Those who were on the wanted list stayed, as
there was a court case against us for violating the Anti-Subversion Law.
Those who went back home did so via roundabout route through Tokyo. Because there was no mark on their
passport, they were able to go there. And since it was still martial law when they got back, some of them went
underground. One actually disappeared and was never found since then.
For the five of us who decided to stay, we were in a state of waiting, so our Chinese hosts organized more
tours. We were in Shanghai then and on the way back to Beijing, we requested if we could see and attend the
National Day parade. They said they would work on it. However, we were told that for austerity reasons, there
would be no National Day parade for that year. Because the parade was an important annual event, that made
us really think. We actually believed it. It was like China Watching 101! In the beginning, you believed what
they say, and then later, you realized some things were happening.
Pitlo: Great! So early on in your stay in China, you were already developing a better grasp of observing China
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and making sense of the developments in the country. What events made you think that there was a problem
brewing in China at that time?
Sta Romana: When we got back in Beijing, we were invited to the National Day reception, though there was no
parade. That made us really think because we thought austerity had forced the cancellation of the event.
China's top leadership was present during the reception: Zhou Enlai, Mao's wife Jiang Qing, the Gang of Four,
everybody except Mao. Lin Biao was also absent. Zhou Enlai went around, toasting along with the Beijing
mayor. This was supposed to be the first signs that there was a problem. There was no major speech by Zhou
Enlai or anything like that. I think there was just a toast.
A few days after the National Day parade, the Ethiopian Emperor, Haile Selassie, came and met Mao. Here,
China watchers realized that there was really something wrong. The protocol in China during toasts for such
events was to say, “Long live the health of Chairman Mao and the health of Vice-Chairman Lin Biao.” But during
this event, there was no mention of Lin Biao. It was the first hint. At that point, the speculation in the West was
that the parade was cancelled because Mao was sick. And around that time, a group of American doctors/heart
specialists were on a tour, so people thought that they were out to cure Mao. But the doctors came out saying
they did not do anything. So what happened during the visit of Emperor Haile Selassie was the first sign. The
other one, which was also noticed by the West, was that for a time no airplanes were allowed to fly from any
airport. That was actually the time when Lin Biao was allegedly escaping. This is all looking back now, but at
that point, it was a mystery. We were hearing all these from radio shortwave, but in all of China, it appears as
though there was nothing happening; on the surface, it was just quiet. More so if you were a foreigner since
you were sheltered.
Pitlo: Where did you go after the the Beijing National Day reception?
Sta Romana: After that, we went out on a trip and they brought us to Yan'an. This was revolutionary tourism.
The caves of Yan'an, Shaanxi province, was the birthplace of the revolution. This is where Xi Jinping and Wang
Qishan were working as young students. That is why President Xi would later revisit this area and try to
reconnect with the revolutionary spirit of the place. As for us, we did not know much about it at that time. It
was actually here that we were able to meet young people of our age.
They were Red Guards, and we had discussions with them. We would ask them questions in the course of our
exchange. One, out of curiosity, was, “How long will you stay here?” Their reply was, “All our lives.” We were
surprised. “Because that is the need of the revolution.” We asked ourselves what this was. But that was what
they were saying then.
Pitlo: So it was like a permanent revolution?
Sta. Romana: Yes. What was funny was that when we got back in Beijing, we met some of these students
whom we met in Yan'an. We recognized them and some of them also recognized us. So we asked, “Hi, why are
you back here?” They replied: “No, no we just came back here because of some medical or family visit, but
we’ll be going back again.” Anyway, at that point, we realized that Yan'an was supposed to be the cradle of the
revolution.
There are statues and big pictures of Mao and Lin Biao there. Lin Biao and his military unit was responsible for
producing copies of the Red Book. Lin Biao wrote the preface of the book, and he wrote in Chinese characters
encouraging readers to study conscientiously Chairman Mao’s work. Later, we noticed Red Guards tearing that
page. That was when the Chinese people began to acknowledge what was happening. There was very intense
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internal struggle, but they kept it to themselves. No one would not know about it. All of these were happening
while we were touring, which we continued until December after the end of the Philippine elections that saw
Marcos getting defeated. Marcos retreated a bit and ten of our fellows were able to go back home. This was
after 3 months.
Pitlo: So what happened to those of you who decided to stay? Did the tours continue?
Sta. Romana: We were advised by our lawyers from the Philippines who were working on our cases. They
said that they could win these cases and we could get back home, but told us we just needed to stay in China a
little while longer. We were staying in another hotel at this time, the Peace Hotel. We were often listening to
the radio and were also reading a lot. There were no more tours during this time. The three weeks became
three months; ten of our colleagues managed to go back. So we were confronted with a question of what to do
while waiting.
Pitlo: Were your hosts concerned about your safety if you decided to go back?
Sta. Romana: Our own families were very concerned about us. But yes, our hosts were also concerned.
China, at that point, was quite sympathetic. During this time, there was a provision in their Constitution (which
was removed during the time of Deng Xiaoping) that foreigners subject to persecution in their own countries
because of their political or scientific beliefs may stay in China. They give you a sort of “exile provision,”
wherein you are free to stay or go.
Pitlo: Was that indefinite?
Sta. Romana: Yes. Actually, we eventually met some of political refugees in the place we were staying. They
were two elderly Americans. Later, we found out that they were the editors of Chairman Mao’s works in
English.
Pitlo: Was that the reason they were persecuted in the US and had to seek refuge in China?
Sta. Romana: No. They came to China because they were persecuted during the McCarthy red/communist
scare period in the U.S. At that time, many were wrongfully accused -- some were persecuted -- of having
communist links, including people working in government. This was the case for the two Americans. They were
both government officials, one worked in finance and the other one worked in treasury. They were both
economists. They went to China and sought refuge there. They ended up staying and dying there as well. They
were already really old when we met them - in their 60s and 70s. They had their families with them. They did
not speak Chinese, but their children were able to learn while staying in China. I attended their funerals.
Eventually, their children returned to the U.S. We got to know these people while waiting.
Pitlo: Stuck in China and unable to get back home, what were the things running in your head at that time?
Sta Romana: We decided at that point to make ourselves productive while waiting, so we asked if we could
stay in a rural area and join some work units to better learn and experience China. So our hosts brought us to a
state farm in Hunan. That is where we saw and experienced China from the bottom-up. It was planting season.
We were able to experience plowing and use of the carabao for rudimentary farming. What was funny is that
they put us in the company of young high school girls who taught us. We had no prior experience in farming of
course. The girls were well familiar, and the boys were even much faster. We were trying to follow and learn
from them. One of us five who had stayed was also a woman.
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Pitlo: This must have been very practical learning for your group. How would you assess the experience?
Sta. Romana: It was actually very rudimentary. Half a day of work and another of studying the Chinese
language. The universities were closed, so our hosts got a teacher from the language institute who used to
teach Pakistanis and other foreigners. This teacher had been with us when we were working on the farm. We
would work in the morning and he would teach us in the afternoon. It was quite an experience. We stayed
there for a couple of months. I would say we did not do well with the job. Perhaps, I would have given it a
grade of 72.
Pitlo: Would you say that your experience in staying in China at that time convinced you that China was indeed
a worthy model should the Philippines decide to pursue a socialist path?
Sta. Romana:
Overall? No.
Pitlo: So the charm of China's socialist model already disappeared after 3 months?
Sta. Romana: When we saw first what happened, there were positive and negative sides. What we
experienced in the Hunan farm (although we had never been to a farm in the Philippines, and most of us are
from the landed class, not the peasant class) seemed similar to most rural areas in the Philippines. If you
looked at their living conditions, they were not very dissimilar from the Philippines, except perhaps that they
were more egalitarian and there was no pronounced social disparity. But having gone through all that
happened in China, you would want economic growth to improve, as it did during the time of Deng. But the
political system would probably would not work in the Philippines. It is OK if you are not in the other faction.
But if you were in the opposition, it was very difficult. There seemed to be no diversity, but of course under
Deng, diversity was allowed for a while. But now with Xi Jinping, the second coming of Mao becomes apparent.
At that point, we were still open and wide-eyed.
Pitlo: Did you came to treat China as a worker’s paradise?
Sta. Romana: Well, it was not exactly paradise. What we noticed is that they treated foreigners very well. We
would go on train rides and plane trips, and they would always put us in first-class. Of course, the first thing
you would notice is that the trains were long and there were many people queuing and riding. Our hosts would
escort us while walking and would guided in a different class. And when it comes to food, they would give us
good delicacies. You wonder what they were eating. That is when I noticed that most of it was tofu and rice
and some vegetables and very little meat. Eventually, although we were sheltered, we got to know about the
rations. People received limited rations of grain, meat, cooking oil, while only foreigners had access to
friendship stores. In the beginning, we thought these were for tourists. We only realized about it later as we
stayed. For example, we came to know that if you looked Asian, the guard at the store entrance would stop
you. If you were not accompanied by an interpreter, they would ask for your ID.
Pitlo: Since you were Asian, did they mistake your group for locals?
Sta. Romana: We dressed in local Chinese clothes. We realized that the disadvantage of that is that if we
went to friendship stores, we would be stopped. Or when we went to a Chinese restaurant, they would ask for
coupons (lian piao). And there were special restaurants for foreigners as well. That is when we began to see
that something was wrong somewhere.
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Pitlo: That there was disparity, an unequal treatment between local and foreigners?
Sta. Romana: The rations were meant to equalize, but there were many loopholes and the thing was that you
knew they were a developing country too, except more egalitarian. And then you recognized their unisex
approach. Men and women were alike: same dress, no cosmetics, no make-up. This was during Mao’s period.
Pitlo:
Would you say that was too harsh, the way they conceived their egalitarian society?
Sta. Romana: Well, I thought the Chinese could take it because of their culture. They are more used to it. But
after Deng came to power, I saw that in a sense they were just like any of us. If you give them a sense of
freedom, they would behave like people who had just came out of prison.
Pitlo: So after the Hunan farm experience, what kept you busy when you returned to Beijing?
Sta. Romana: Eventually, we ended up in a university since the universities were re-opening. So we enrolled
in a formal language certificate program in the university, along with Chinese students. It was a mixed class. I
had a Chinese roommate in the dormitory.
The Chinese students, on the other hand, were learning English. So our learning of the Chinese language was
supposed to promote it. Those were the old days. Now, that is no longer the case. The locals were separated
from the foreigners in Chinese language classes. But at that time, it was the usual approach. At that point, you
will notice that the foreigners were really different from the locals. So what the Chinese could not buy in
Chinese stores, they would ask their foreigner friends to buy it for them in friendship stores. Those are the
favors that they would usually ask.
That is when you got to see it. And then they were very curious about things foreign. For instance, at that time,
all watches were made locally and imported ones were prohibited. Chinese-made watches were not automatic.
So when we (in the delegation) were wearing the automatic watches we had before coming to China (in my
case, I was using a hand-me-down from my father), our Chinese colleagues kept looking at it. And I was telling
them about the tape recorder I mentioned before, which has a short wave radio combination. There was none
in China then, just radios and black-and-white TVs in the beginning. So they were asking us, “what is this,”
“where did you buy that,” etc. You could see that they were quite behind. So it became an interesting
experience in that sense.
Pitlo: Did you ever feel that the Chinese resented the fact that foreigners were given special treatment?
Sta. Romana: That is an interesting question. They had this system of treating guests well, and you would feel
it. That is why they would ask favors from you to buy for them; you reciprocate in that way. Another thing,
during the tours, the Chinese actually mobbed us (as foreigners) so our guests had someone who would
discipline the crowds, someone who was a little harsh. The locals were surprised or amazed to see someone
who looked different. So if they realized that you were a foreigner, they would gather around or mobbed you.
We were actually telling our guides not to be too rough. We were the ones who feel ashamed. We would
rather be mixed up with them than to keep them away.
Pitlo: Could they easily tell at that time if one was a foreigner?
Sta. Romana: Because of the way we dressed. Later, we would start to wear local clothes. In addition, there
were also a couple of women in our group. Their hairstyles were different from those of most of the local
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women – not the usual pigtails. Also, foreigners usually stood out. There was just something different in them
that locals could sense. That is when you realized that they were not used to seeing foreigners. China was very
insular and isolated. Eventually of course, China would become very different, but they were very closed during
the Cultural Revolution.
Pitlo: How would you describe Chinese society at that time?
Sta. Romana: It was spartan and egalitarian; they were not exposed to consumer goods, especially Western
ones. It was very different. It was like being in a different planet. It was different, but in some respects it was
also the same. So it was very revealing when China decided to adopt changes.
Pitlo: You mentioned earlier that your group became convinced that the Philippines should not go the way
China had gone. What made you think of that?
Sta. Romana: At that point, we had not decided yet. We only did so only after years of experience. China's
position shifted away from Mao’s model to Deng's. Deng maintained that each country should tread its own
path according its own conditions. Actually, even under Mao, this approach was already surfacing. You should
develop a model to suit your own conditions. So eventually, the Chinese went their own way. The point here is
that I think there are certain things in Philippine culture that need to be factored in when coming up with our
own model. That model should be our own and reflect our conditions and integrate the positive aspects of our
culture that suit developmental requirements. Filipinos are a little more spontaneous and freewheeling. The
Chinese, on the other hand, are ritualistic and Confucian values are very strong. Of course, I did not know then
China’s culture was Confucian. I thought it was just being Chinese.
Pitlo: Did it occur on you that Filipinos, based on our culture and traditions, could possibly reach the stage that
China did? I mean with the type of discipline, rigor, commitment to work, and willingness to sacrifice that the
Chinese demonstrated?
Sta. Romana:
I think the former President Marcos tried it, but it did not work.
Pitlo: You mean through his New Society Program?
Sta. Romana: Yes, the New Society. Yes, I think you would need a very strong dedicated leader who can be a
model. At the same time, there has to be a sense of crisis that would unite the people and make them accept
the price of discipline. I think that happened for a while during the Japanese period. Those were very difficult
times, and people just improvised and found ways to live within their means. But otherwise, Filipinos are a
little more like the Spaniards and Latin Americans. In fact, we were actually likened to Latin Americans.
Pitlo: Filipinos’ laid-back character?
Sta. Romana: Yes. As well as certain aspects of Filipinos’ religion, culture, and politics, which make it difficult
for authoritarianism to take root, although there seems to be a recent surge and inclination towards a
strongman leader. The appeal of a strongman is becoming more popular.
Pitlo: One author mentioned what he considered as Filipinos' democracy fatigue. Would you say that
Filipinos’ “Asianness” is finally catching up with them? I mean, many Asian countries had been led by
strongmen and attained high levels of economic development through the East Asian governance/leadership
model. There seems to be a growing frustration over the system of checks and balances (three
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coequal/interdependent branches of government) that paralyzes crucial decision-making and polarizes the
country politically.
Sta. Romana: That is possible. Let us see. There are two experiments we have not yet done. One is
federalism. We did the other partly during the time of former President Marcos, but not in a proper setting. I
am referring to a parliamentary government. However, I am not too optimistic about that.
Federalism may, to a certain extent, decentralize government and mobilize local initiative. A parliamentary
system, similar to Japan’s, would possibly mean frequent changes in government. It is really tough to tell. It will
entail more experimenting for the Philippines. China during the Cultural Revolution experimented, and all of
them suffered; even those who would become top leaders like Deng Xiaoping were sent to rural areas, so they
really saw the policy's adverse effects. If the Cultural Revolution did not happen, and they did not have a
leadership who suffered from it with the people and who realized its negative effects, moderate and reformist
leaders who succeeded Mao would not have had the same intensity and political will to steer China's
transformation into a different direction.
Pitlo: China has gone through a lot before attaining its present status. The country suffered from many
socioeconomic and political policies, as well as programs which led to failures like the Great Leap Forward and
the Cultural Revolution. Do you think the Filipinos would have the strength to try different approaches and be
willing to pay the price like the Chinese?
Sta. Romana: Yes. That is the problem in the Philippines. Look at 1986 EDSA Revolution. Its price was not that
great, so there was really no meaningful and enduring transformation. Now the Marcos family is back in
positions of political power. They are still around. In China, they could have been sent to jail or another set of
leaders had taken over. Our price was Martial Law, but looking back, it was meager. But that was our version of
a price or sacrifice.
In a sense, the leadership transition in EDSA was less violent. Marcos was an authoritarian leader who grew
corrupt and was overthrown. But US involvement mitigated a potentially violent outcome of the leadership
change. If Americans had not intervened (i.e. rescued Marcos), the resolution to the crisis could have been
more drastic and possibly bloody. When a crisis is peacefully resolved, people tend to disregard and cherish the
outcomes. That is unfortunate.
I hope there won’t be much price or sacrifice, but either way, we will have to go through it again. Just as a
restoration took place after the French Revolution, so did the same happen in the Philippines after 1986. The
oligarchs and political dynasties returned to power. It’s a cycle. Direct experience teaches people but after a
generation, the lessons sometimes get lost. In our experience, when we activist youths talked with our parents,
they would always tell us that we never experienced what it was like to live during the Japanese colonization
period. Now, it’s our turn as former young activists to tell our children and grandchildren that they never
experienced what Martial Law was like. We basically sound like our parents. Anyway, people have to
experience a crisis. Hopefully with wisdom. What is important is that we institutionalize change and deliver its
gains. And this I think is the lesson of China and Communist Party rule. They were almost on the verge of
collapse; what Deng did was to produce rapid economic growth, which became the new source of the Party’s
legitimacy; they delivered the goods again, so to speak. Now that is the problem confronting the Party – it has
to sustain these gains and continue delivering.
Pitlo: Would you say that your interest in Chinese Studies developed as a consequence of your experience in
China? How did your experience help you in your media work covering China?
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Sta. Romana: Yes. My experience in China contributed a lot to my work as a foreign journalist. What was
particularly helpful was that I was able to work with a Western/international news organization while watching
and observing China. Although I lived there, and my livelihood depended in a sense on my being in China, I was
also an outsider. This gave me a more detached view. Even so, it helped that I was able to view the country
from the inside, having lived and worked there, since I got to know people's sentiments and talked to them. For
instance, do you know that during the Cultural Revolution, especially during its radical phase, you could already
feel their frustration and hear their complaints over its excesses, especially against the Gang of Four’s and
Mao's harsh policies? In the same vein, when Deng was rehabilitated and began undertaking reforms, you
could hear people talking that what he was doing was good for China. At the same time, mass media was
heating up with the coverage of the Gang of Four. It’s like being close to the tracks and you can hear the train.
Anyway, because I had an insider’s view of the country, I knew that there were forces which one could not read
about in the media, ones that you had to read between the lines, so to speak, in order to detect. So my China
experience really helped a lot in that respect.
Pitlo: What did your China experience teach you in terms of understanding and forecasting goings-on in China?
Sta. Romana: It taught me to be a little skeptical. That you should never accept what’s on the surface. You
may know about it, but it is like the art of reading tea leaves. It is never easy. That is why China watching
actually became part of my life. First is because I lived and worked there, and then I worked as a foreign
journalist who had to explain what was going on in China to an international audience.
Pitlo:
So not everything is as it seems?
Sta. Romana: Yes. That was lesson 101. Bu qingchu (not clear) compared to bu zhidao (not knowing). It’s llike
something is out there but it is not clear. Remember the Lin Biao incident I told you about? When they are
going through an internal struggle, they will never admit it. But when they are done and ready, they will
acknowledge it. It has to be resolved first. It is the same thing when you go through ancient or contemporary
Chinese history. My China experience really helped me a lot in terms of trying to figure out China.
But even the Chinese people can be skeptical about their government. For instance, while I was studying
Chinese language, Zhou Enlai made his famous speech in 1975 where he outlined “The Four Modernizations.” I
studied that speech together with my Chinese roommates; we discussed it in the canteen. It was interesting
that they were very skeptical about. On the one hand, they wanted the goals to be achieved; they wanted
China to be a modernized country. On the other hand, they were very skeptical about whether they could
achieve this. Some of them did not believe it was achievable because of their experience during the Great Leap
Forward and the Cultural Revolution. I think it is accomplishing and being able to pursue the reforms that
convinced a lot that there is hope for better times.
Pitlo: In Mao’s time, China positioned itself as -- and was seen by many as well -- as a model for agrarian
countries who wished to pursue socialism and to oppose revisionism and Western imperialism. But later, China
would have a rapprochement with US. How was this explained to you by your Chinese hosts and what was your
take on it?
Sta. Romana: China was a model for developing countries and for revolutionary movements worldwide. At
that point, Mao was also trying to sound a call to oppose revisionism and to argue that he was a true Marxist;
that China's track was the revolutionary way; and that the egalitarian model produced by the Cultural
Revolution attested to this authenticity.
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On the Sino-U.S. rapprochement, I remember we kept asking our hosts about it, about why China was doing
this. They gave very interesting answers. It had something to do with their interest in international politics.
Again, they quoted Mao. They were studying an article of his written during the Anti-Japanese War, “On
Policy.” I became familiar with it. Mao's method of analysis focuses on contradiction: what the principal
contradiction was and who the principal enemy was. Before the Japanese invasion, the principal enemy was
Chiang Kai Shek's Kuomintang. And when the Japanese came, they became the principal enemy. The
Communist Party, therefore, sought to unite with the Kuomintang against the principal enemy. That was the
whole point of the article. That same analogy was applied to allow for the Sino-US rapprochement. Without
saying it, China at that time faced two enemies and had to decide who the principal enemy was and then try to
forge a tactical unity with the other. In essence, it was an application of the aphorism, “The enemy of your
enemy is your friend.” Anyway, it was very clear at that point that the Soviet Union was the principal threat to
China and, therefore, U.S. President Nixon was welcomed.
Pitlo: Was the rapprochement with the U.S. a recognition that there was something wrong with China's
economic model at that time?
Sta. Romana: The rapprochement was tactical, and it had to do with China's view of international relations.
As far as socialism was concerned, realization about its limits would come later, not during the time of Mao,
but of Deng’s. In Mao's time, there was semblance of such a realization since China was already importing
Western technologies. But it did become more pronounced during the Deng period when a socialist market
economy was adopted. Under Mao, it was a pure socialist-planned economy.
A good lesson in China Watching concerns the transition from Mao to Deng, particularly its position in relation
to Mao's legacy and the fall of the Gang of Four. I do not know if you have ever heard of Hua Guofeng, who
came into power after Mao died. The Gang of Four was arrested, tried, and punished. At that point, it was very
interesting because the Chinese were celebrating; they were out in the streets and presenting Hua Guofeng as
the new leader. But there was also lot of discussion on who possessed the correct path, the Gang of Four or the
new group? For a long time, the propaganda was that the Cultural Revolution was good, but eventually the
Chinese changed their position about it. At any rate, the Cultural Revolution became a basis for evaluating
Mao. During that time, there was a lot of questioning. It was difficult to situate yourself. It took a while before
you could make sense of what was going because debates were happening, some of it openly on newspapers.
That was where Chinese method of debating disclosed itself. The early Mao and the late Mao served as a basis
for analysis. The latter was used for assessing his contributions. The former was used as the criterion to
determine truth: how do you know who is right? The answer was practice, which became the sole criterion of
truth.
Pitlo: Seek truth from facts?
Sta. Romana: Yes. This approach came about during this time. Actually, it was Mao who originally used the
expression “seek truth through facts,” which Deng used to criticize the Cultural Revolution and its mistakes.
This was the period of confusion when it was not clear who was right and wrong.
Pitlo: So bu qingchu?
Sta. Romana: At that point, yes. But the point is that basically, by gauging the people, you could see who
waspopular. You see, what happened was that Mao offended the workers, as their salaries remained constant
for a very long time. Thus, when it was raised even by a little, it was big news. It was not in the papers, but
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people were talking about it: that their pay increased under Deng. At one point, when Mao was still alive, that
economic incentive was attacked. At that time, you could tell that, in a sense, there was a philosophical debate
on who was right in terms of how to mobilize people. The problem with Mao is that he became a little more
abstract. Mao really believed you could transform people through political incentives alone, while Deng
emphasized economic incentives, though his is actually somewhere between the two positions. Even so, the
contrast was so stark.
Under Mao, things were so extreme that peasants were neither allowed to own their own plot of land nor to
grow their own crops. His vision was different. Mao thought that having private plots of land would signal
capitalism. It affects food security if you cannot even cultivate susbsistence crops for your family. You had to
rely on the state, and for a while that was the conventional wisdom, until it was reversed and you no longer
had to produce everything for the state and you could plant crops according to your needs. Even within
Marxist-Leninist-Maoist theory, interpretation had always triggered big debates. Basically, you had Mao, who,
while conducting the revolution, was pragmatic. He did not follow Lenin whose idea was revolution in the
cities, and instead went to the countryside because that was where most Chinese lived and because China was,
then at least, largely an agrarian country. This shows that Mao adjusts. But as he got older, he went back to the
books and became more dogmatic. I guess he got stuck in his old age, unable to travel anymore to really see
the situation on the ground. He became more detached.
For Deng Xiaoping, he had some different ideas about the Great Leap Forward, whose implications he saw
when he was sent to countryside. He was working in a factory and lived in Jiangxi, together with other purged
officials. So when they came back to power, you had a core group who shared the same ideas, which were a
critique of Mao's economic policies and represented the desire to achieve economic development. That helped
strengthen political will.
Pitlo: So China watching became a habit?
Sta. Romana:
a challenge.
Pitlo:
It became my life because all my adult years were spent understanding China, which has been
But nothing is as it seems?
Sta. Romana: Yes. You cannot judge from the surface. Instead, you have to view it in the context of their
history. The Chinese people have a very strong culture heavily influenced by Confucianism. And there is a
Marxist veneer, as well as Maoist and Dengist veneers too. You have to see the situation from there; and the
bottom line is that you have to understand that human beings are influenced by all these cultural and historical
forces. We are the same but yet we are different. We have our own culture and our own history. It is just that I
do not expect it to be easy to understand China. I mean you could experience it yourself. If you live in China,
there are certain things you have to get used to, which is not so easy. Basically, we have to find our own way of
understanding and navigating in China, but also need to consider their experiences.
My point now is that I view myself more as someone trying to understand China better. I do not want to focus
on whether we can use the Chinese model. No. In that sense, I could say that I have matured. Rather, I want to
see what we could learn from China; there are lessons that can be looked into, but you cannot take them as a
whole. But looking back in time, I would not call myself a Maoist. I was interested to learn. And I lived, learned
and experienced China, particularly during the Cultural Revolution.
Pitlo: Did you realize the inapplicability of China's experience and model for the Philippines? I mean it takes a
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certain type of culture and a tenacity for sacrifices to make that happen.
Sta. Romana: Yes. But at that point, I was more interested in the how. I thought there were lessons that
could be drawn from the way they fought the Japanese or the Kuomintang. But even that is different. They are
a mainland or continental country, while we are an archipelago, so even the strategies will be different. Though
general principles may be applicable. It is about how you apply and practice them, and you adjust as you go
along based on the results. You really have to cross the river by feeling the stones. And feeling the stones is
always interesting.
Pitlo: So to that extent, the Chinese leadership was really not that dogmatic and blindly accepting established
Marxist tenets?
Sta. Romana: No, this was Deng. Mao was really loyal. As he grew older, the interpretation and vision he had
was very purist. There was an aspect in his judgement which maintained that the people's will coud help
achieve huge things like the Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution. If one mobilized the people, then you
could achieve such objectives. But of course, this is where you also become a little manipulative. You may have
achieved desired results for certain goals, but you cannot sustain that zeal unless you have a material
foundation.
Sta. Romana: Yes. He played that. He really showed that if used for certain goals, the human spirit can
achieve even seemingly impossible goals, but sustaining it over a long period of time is the question.
Pitlo: Would you say that from then until today, the foundations for analyzing China remain the same so
much so that recent developments do not surprise you anymore?
Sta. Romana: No. I am still surprised at how the pendulum is swinging back. I understand it would swing, but
this story or joke of President Xi Jinping as the second coming of Mao does seem to be the way he is going. It is
really serious. And it is interesting to know the counter-reaction to that. How long can this go on? And where
will it end? And then you go to the disputes – why can they not see that what they are doing is actually
producing a different effect?
Pitlo: You mean the backlash against what China is doing in the disputed waters?
Sta. Romana: Yes. It becomes more complicated because of President Xi Jinping's need to cater to nationalist
sentiments internally, obtain the support of the military, consolidate his own power, and address the economic
problems that China now faces, and how all these will affect China's behavior. In some respect, it is surprising
because he seems to be turning out differently from Deng and some of the things that Deng did.
Pitlo: You mean policy reversals?
Sta. Romana: Yes. It seems that some of the old approaches are coming to life, but we are not there yet. An
example is the move from collective leadership to a strongman or strongman politics. That is one change it
seems. Xi seems to be rewriting the rules of Chinese politics by sidelining collective leadership along with the
rest of the Standing Committee.
Pitlo: You must have heard about the alleged letter going around calling for Xi's resignation. What is your take
on it?
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Sta. Romana: Yes. If you read that, you could see the counterargument, a critique of Xi Jinping’s policies. So
you could see the intense, ongoing factional struggles.
Pitlo: But we can only see this because of the extent of the letter’s getting leaked in public. Most of the
dynamics of inner-Party struggle escapes public eye.
Sta. Romana: Yes. Most of it won’t appear until they are ready. But while the struggle is happening, you will
only hear a lot of stories. The problem now is how to sift for what is right and accurate because sometimes
rumors dominate.
Pitlo: That was very Chinese? So then or now are the same?
Sta. Romana: Yes. The same way that the Lin Biao affair was covered. There were many rumors or stories
about what really happened; it was hard to know the truth. Up to now actually, questions have been raised as
to why he did not succeed in assassinating Mao. Was it true that the daughter spilled the beans?
Pitlo: But at that time, what really happened to the plane allegedly carrying Lin Biao?'
Sta. Romana: I think it was confirmed that the skull recovered from the remains of the plane were his. The
question of most people at that time was why he had to flee to the Soviet Union. Because if he was able to flee
there, it would have been really big news. But you could see he was desperate because the original plan was to
go to Guangzhou. But where would he go there? There might have been Civil War, and there was no way you
could win against Mao. So eventually, when his plan came to light, you could see his desperation. And of course
that incident reveals that Lin Biao was not in favor of rapprochement with the U.S. He was not yet convinced
that the Soviet Union was the main enemy. But he was already the number-two man behind Mao.
Pitlo: So he was really very close to the top position.
Sta. Romana: Yes. But that has been Chinese politics. Hu Yaobang, Deng Xiaoping, and Zhao Ziyang were all
partners and they really liked each other, but they were not able to read that Deng was only after economic
freedom and not political liberties. For their part, they went all the way, but Deng stuck just to economic
freedoms. Lin Biao and Mao were close, but I think there was an aspect of the two having different
assessments of the situation then. And there may also have been a power play aspect. To a certain extent, Mao
also used Lin Biao to be able to get back in power and then he saw Lin Biao’s weakness. And Lin Biao too
wanted power. He was supposed to succeed based on the Constitution, yet he would still not get the top post.
So the only way to do so was for Mao to die, especially since Mao would have changed the constitution again. I
mean this was the problem of not having an institutionalized set-up, so Deng tried to institutionalize leadership
succession when he took the reins of power.
Now, with Xi, I think China is treading some dangerous ground. It seems leadership is becoming personalistic
again. That is what makes it interesting. The drama continues and it’s intriguing to see how long will the
Communist Party survive. The Soviets fell and the Communist Party of China almost went to the brink of
collapse. And I think it is critical that the Chinese leadership address the economic challenges. If they cannot
deliver the economic goods, then they will commit the same mistake of the Soviet Union. China may engage in
the arms race, which they cannot sustain, and would eventually lead to collapse. Or there are also internal
challenges that may lead to the country's downfall.
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Pitlo: That is why you think the One Belt, One Road (OBOR) initiative will become existentially crucial for the
Chinese leadership?
Sta. Romana: It is a key. But it remains uncertain if it can be a way out, which Xi is looking for. That is why one
analysis posits that the main beneficiaries of OBOR will be state-owned enterprises, and exporters like
companies engaged in railway, construction, and steel manufacture which are all suffering from domestic
overcapacity. That is why it is important that the OBOR succeeds. But another explanation is that OBOR is the
answer to how China can break away from encirclement (China's perception is that US, along with its allies, are
encircling or containing China's rise). But there are many challenges along the way, and you can see that Xi is
trying to analyze the situation. He is not ready for an outright confrontation with the US, but he has problems
now: how to come up with a new development model. Deng’s model no longer works (China's manufacturingbased export-led development model seemed to have served its time and the country had already developed
industrial overcapacity resulting to limited growth, hence the country has to find a new development model).
The economic boom is over but you need it to to sustain political legitimacy. So as far as he sees it, he needs to
tighten social and political control, especially on civil society, but in doing so, he is swinging back. And whether
he can continue this strategy remains to be seen. It is no longer the same China. There are now other forces at
work. So the joy of China watching continues.
Pitlo: Thank you for the time.
Sta. Romana: I don’t know if you got what you wanted.
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