Orr
Q:
Now, Mimi, you’re going to tell us, the uninformed members
of the Thompson clan, all about the family from the
beginning.
How about this first man, Robert Thompson.
Do
we know he’s the right one?
A:
We don’t know it, but he’s probably a distinguished
ancestor.
His blood was the first shed in the war for
American independence.
The first blood shed in the war for
American Independence.
F:
In the family you mean?
Not the first one.
A:
The first blood shed.
Q:
The blood shed.
A:
He and a preacher named [David] Caldwell were appointed to
Let’s go on.
(laughter)
go and treat with Governor Tryon.
There had been in North
Carolina a movement against Governor Tryon, who was the
appointed British Governor of the province of North
Carolina.
There had been a good many unfortunate
incidents, and Robert Thompson and this preacher Caldwell
were supposed to go out and talk to Governor [William]
Tryon, who had some militia lined up behind him.
And the
talk was not satisfactory, and when Robert turned to go, he
was shot in the back by someone from Tryon’s staff unless
it was Tryon himself.
Now some of the family are very
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anxious to claim him, and I’m perfectly willing to claim
him, but I’ve had no documentary evidence yet.
Well, I’m
sorry I’m hoarse tonight.
F:
Would you like a drink of water?
A:
His wife [Olivia] was possibly from Maryland.
We do not
know that, but her name games down in the descendents of
the Thompson family almost to my generation in the form of
the Letitia.
So we can say that we are descendents of
Robert Thompson, and (inaudible) somebody.
Q:
What is this 1771 [Guildford] County business mean?
A:
That’s when he died.
It was the battle of the (inaudible).
Q:
Well, I see.
I see.
A:
The first blood shed in the war for independence.
Q:
It is.
I see.
(inaudible) you tell.
That’s all we really know
about them then?
A:
That’s all we know.
Q:
Now we come to Thomas Thompson.
A:
Thomas Thompson, he was from Orange County, North Carolina
and he married a woman named Nancy Thompson, who was of no
-- it was not related to him, but was said to be of
somewhat better blood than Thomas Thompson, and some would
say that.
(laughter)
Q:
(laughter)
Can’t imagine that.
A:
And Thomas Thompson and three other men came over land to
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the bluff, which has been settled as an outpost of
civilization by a crowd of men under James Robinson,
financed by Richard Henderson who was robbed in Nashville,
in February 1780 and crossed the river on the ice.
frozen over.
He came down from Kentucky.
It was
He was present
at the meeting where [Cumberland] contract was signed on
the first day of 1780, shortly after the boatloads of women
and children, under the care of John [Doddlesen] had
arrived.
Q:
Well, now he didn’t really come with James Robinson, nor
did he come on the boat.
He just was here on his own?
A:
He came with a group of men from South Carolina.
Q:
I see.
A:
That came around --
Q:
Oh, that’s interesting.
A:
And got here in February 1780.
I didn’t know that.
He signed the Cumberland
contract.
Q:
Oh, he did.
A:
That’s the (inaudible) up in the (inaudible) town.
went back.
Then he
He picked out this land on which we’re living.
He (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).
Q:
Did he stake out or was it granted to him?
A:
It was granted to him and surveyed for him, and it was
staked out in the spring of 1780, he having been a Private
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in the North Carolina militia.
He was allowed to buy under
his (inaudible) 650 acres at 10 cents an acre.
F:
Wow.
Q:
Think of it.
F:
10 cents an acre.
A:
He went back to North Carolina, and was -- I don’t know,
was taken prisoner by the British in one of their raids
into North Carolina from the southern Army.
You know, the
British landed in Charlestown and marched northward.
And
their victories ended at the Battle of King’s Mountain.
was taken prisoner, but released.
conditions.
He
I don’t know under what
The only thing I know about his being a
prisoner is that in his later years he had a pension.
Q:
I see.
A:
He married in 1789 to Nancy Thompson, and they came back to
Tennessee, where he had this grant of land.
Q:
And nobody had encroached the land, it was still staked out
in his name?
A:
Oh, it was still staked out in his name.
(multiple conversations; inaudible)
A:
The land (inaudible) it.
F:
What does that mean?
A:
It was called -- I suppose mapping it, I don’t know exactly
what that word means.
But at any rate, he had not only the
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land on which we are living, but other pieces of land that
he acquired in some way.
His brother Jason came and also
some other relatives who built a block house somewhat
behind where Brightwood, the Dickinson residence now stands
over the spring.
Of course, he built near a spring, and
then his children was born -- were born.
Q:
I see.
all.
So he didn’t build the block house over here at
That’s what he did.
A:
Oh no, but there was a spring.
Q:
I see.
A:
Over there.
daughters.
He had five children; two sons and three
The oldest -- the second son, Robert, that’s
possibly a name for his father, died when he was quite
young.
John was the son who survived, and who was your --
my ancestor.
Q:
He had one son.
A:
Then he had three daughters.
says ’37 at Glen Levin.
And he died, I believe it
Glen Levin was built by his son
John no his marriage in 1824 -- John’s marriage in 1824.
F:
And that would be our great grandfather?
A:
Yes, my grandfather, your old, great grandfather.
F:
[Joe’s] and my great grandfather?
Q:
Well, how many times was Glen Levin built then?
the third --
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This is
A:
Three times.
It is the third house on that place.
Q:
It stands there now.
A:
It stands there now, and of course, John, the son who built
this, hunted for a spring and he built it over the spring,
which his now in the front yard of Glen Levin.
That’s the
(inaudible) to have it.
Q:
The first house was down over there?
A:
No, his first house was on the hill there.
Q:
Was it?
A:
He -- John was a marrying gentleman.
He married four times
and buried three wives.
Q:
Well, now we’re down to here then aren’t we?
A:
Yes, John is my grandfather.
He was born the first day of
June 1793, and he died the 18th of April 1876.
He was a
most remarkable man, and ancestor for whom I have the
greatest admiration.
His dictum about his family when
asked once if any of the Thompsons went crazy.
Well, no,
none of them ever had sense enough to.
(laughter)
A:
The first I could say of him -- say of them is the fact
that the women were chased, and the men were honored.
that’s not how you (inaudible).
(laughter)
Q:
Three -- four wives now?
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Now
A:
He had four wives.
F:
Well, who -- or what have all three -- the first three
died?
A:
The first three died, he buried them.
Q:
And all with no children?
A:
Oh, no.
Q:
Did they have children?
A:
His first wife had two daughters who were tubercular, and
they lived to be almost grown.
His first wife died very
shortly after the birth of her children.
Elizabeth Washington.
a widow.
Her name was Mary
His second wife was Betsy Buchanan,
She was Betsy [Turly].
She had a little son who
died in the second summer as most babies in that time died.
She died in his birth.
Q:
Good grief.
A:
After the first (inaudible).
Rollins.
His third wife was the widow
She had a son by the first marriage.
Oh by the
way, the second wife had had two daughters by the first
marriage, and some of their descendents are living in
(inaudible) for life.
I’ll tell you about them if you want
me to.
F:
Yeah.
A:
But the first wife was a Dunn, a daughter of Michael Dunn,
an outstanding citizen of Nashville.
And she was the widow
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Rollins, and had one son; Robert.
And she had a daughter
by my grandfather named Ann Elizabeth Thompson, who married
Mr. Joe W. [Houghton], and has descendents living in
Nashville.
Q:
Can you imagine remembering all this?
F:
Who?
A:
Ann Elizabeth.
Q:
Well, we did hear from Joe.
(inaudible) Ann Elizabeth?
I thought the (overlapping
dialogue; inaudible) now.
A:
His fourth wife was the widow [Harriet].
Hamilton.
She was born Mary
She outlived her husband, she died in 1901, they
were married in 1851 and their oldest son was your
grandfather, my father.
They had a second son, Joseph H.
Thompson, who is a descendent of the Dickinson’s and
Hamilton (inaudible).
Q:
Outstanding.
A:
And two daughters died from that second marriage.
Thompson inherited -- or didn’t inherit.
John
His father seemed
to have been of an easygoing disposition, and he
(inaudible) security for people, and mortgaged his land.
And John Thompson started out with a pair of hands, and
work, and released the mortgage, and added to the family
land.
Q:
That’s why you have the admiration for him?
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A:
Not only that, but he was a man of such outstanding
honesty.
And he was so honorable, he was so good, he was
so kind.
When he -- all -- all the relatives of his first
three wives loved him, and all were crazy for him.
Q:
(overlapping dialogue; inaudible) wonderful conversation.
A:
Right?
The women that is were all (inaudible) his
character.
And his fourth wife was a widow, and had a
daughter.
And he raised, educated, and married off that
daughter.
And what he left in his wife in his will was to
go to her granddaughter by her first husband, and did.
F:
Good.
A:
John Thompson accumulated quite a fortune, he was a very
meticulous, and careful bookkeeper.
books.
I have some of his
Every time you sold a bunch of celery, he didn’t
sell it right.
So he always put it down.
(laughter)
A:
And accumulated quite a lot of money.
And in his will,
mentioned the number of each bond that he held.
Bond so
and so, city of Nashville, bond so and so city of so and
so.
Q:
(inaudible).
F:
That’s where you get your good memory.
Q:
(laughter) Very likely.
A:
I wish.
Very likely.
At any rate, he was very much beloved.
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I do not
know that he was a church man.
He was very kind to his
sisters, to his sister’s descendents (inaudible).
You
know, Kirby (inaudible) down?
Q:
Yeah.
A:
That’s the descendent of one of them.
Q:
That’s why Kirby keeps calling me a relative of his, and I
wondered.
A:
Yeah.
Cause it’s all right.
Well, I believed he was
really a descendent of his brother but any -- I mean his
uncle.
But any rate, he was well known as the kindest,
most generous, most upright man in the community.
I’m
thinking of writing a book on the subject.
Q:
Well, you should.
F:
You really should.
Q:
Well now his first son is
A:
By his fourth marriage.
Q:
By his fourth marriage, is John Thompson, who is my
--?
grandfather?
A:
Who is your grandfather, and my father.
Q:
All right.
A:
Now he was born in 1852 at Glen Levin, and he died at Glen
So we’ve gotten to him then.
Levin in 1919.
He never lived anywhere else.
Q:
Now this is the second Glen Levin house or the third house?
A:
This is the third house. John Thompson, his father, built a
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log house.
When he married the fourth time, he built his
wife a very up to date house, that was Mary Hamilton.
The
night before they were to move from the log house to the
very up to date house, they both burned.
Q:
Both burned?
F:
Both did?
A:
They then moved into the wash house, which I happen to
remember.
(inaudible) rest of you did.
And then he built
the Glen Levin, as it stands in -- no, Glen Levin in 1857.
Q:
So now the second house was built there to the south.
A:
To the north of Glen Levin.
Q:
To the north of Glen Levin?
A:
The north of Glen Levin.
And Glen Levin is built -- I have
been told -- where the log house stood.
Q:
I see.
A:
And John Thompson was born in Glen Levin, died at Glen
Levin in 1919.
He had seven children: Mary, who is doing
this talking.
(laughter)
A:
(overlapping dialogue; inaudible) who lived to be five
years old, [Carl], John, [Overton], Joe, Olivia.
Q:
I see.
A:
And he left a good man -- I mean there are a good many
grandchildren, and some great grandchildren.
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But mighty --
mighty few great grandsons.
Q:
Mighty few.
F:
(laughter) One.
A:
One.
(laughter)
A:
Now that’s the story of the Thompsons.
Now John, he wants
to go on to the marriage, to the -Q:
Well, let’s see if there was anything there we need to
clear up on the Thompsons before we go further.
A:
All right.
Q:
Any questions, Harriett?
F:
Well, it sounds like you got it covered as far as I can
remember.
A:
It was sold to him by one -- one --
Q:
What’s this -- what’s this reference in here about
[traveler’s] (inaudible)?
A:
That’s where John Thompson and Mary [McConnell] were
married for.
Q:
I see.
A:
John Thompson was said to have had this comment from one of
his relatives, his cousins: John, you’re the ugliest man
that the Lord ever let live.
And you’ve had four beautiful
women for wives, while I’ve been tied to this damned old
wife of men for (inaudible).
(laughter)
Now that is
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(inaudible).
(laughter)
A:
My incentive to tell that because every now and then I
haven’t done it.
Q:
Right.
Right.
That’s very good.
All right now, Mimi.
We’re going to talk about the Overtons.
And we’re starting
here with Mary McConnell Overton.
A:
Mary McConnell Overton, wife of the John Thompson, before
mentioned, was born at Traveler’s Rest in 1858.
She was
the daughter of John Overton, also born at Traveler’s Rest
in 1821, and his wife Harriett Virginia [Maxwell], his
second wife.
She was born at Maxwell Hall nearby in 1831,
and died at Traveler’s Rest, as did they both, within six
weeks of each other in the winter of 1898-99.
John Overton
was the Civil War hero, and suffered very greatly in
fortunes during the Civil War.
Never understood why, but
he did.
Q:
He had built up a tremendous estate ‘til then, had he not?
A:
Oh, yes.
He was -- his father was supposed to be the
richest man in Tennessee, and this was his son, who
inherited from his father 105 pieces real estate in
Nashville, and when he died, did not own one.
Q:
Gracious.
What happened to all that?
A:
I think he must have been the poorest business man on
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earth.
But he was a man who was spoken of as so honest.
I
think that maybe that was all they could say.
(laughter)
Q:
That would be a good (inaudible).
A:
No, that’s true.
Q:
All right.
A:
He was the son of John Overton, born in [Louisa] town in
Go right ahead.
Virginia in 1776 coming to Nashville in 1789, and not
marrying until he was 54, and he married Mary McConnell
White, the daughter of James White, founder of Nashville.
He was her second husband.
She brought him five step
children, and then presented him with three more children.
So he had to improve his home at Traveler’s Rest by another
wing to take care of them.
He was a man --
Q:
He was really quite a bachelor was he not up ‘til then?
A:
Until 54.
I have found evidence that he didn’t intend nor
wish to remain a bachelor, but they all turned him down.
Q:
I see.
(laughter)
A:
(laughter)
And John Overton accumulated an enormous amount
of land, (laughter) consisting of a large part of the city
of Memphis. He left his son a (inaudible) of land, two and
a half miles deep, which is in the heart of the city of
Memphis, bordering on the Tennessee -- on the Mississippi
River.
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Q:
Is any of that still owned by the family?
A:
Many -- from (inaudible) daughters, descended through the
daughters.
And I -- it’s possible that there’s a little
piece of land down there on one of the islands, still owned
by and (inaudible).
(inaudible).
And I’m not sure if we have it on
John Overton was our Supreme Judge, on the
Supreme Court of Tennessee and intimate friend of Andrew
Jackson.
And --
F:
His law partner was he?
A:
No, there’s no such thing as a law partner of Andrew
Jackson.
I think they’d go mad.
(laughter)
A:
He and Andrew Jackson had much business together, but
Andrew Jackson paid him for his law work, and (inaudible)
fought with the size of the bill.
So they certainly were
not -Q:
A:
Partners.
-- a partner.
However, he did have a partnership with Sam
Houston in his latter years when he was not doing much law
work.
He was very influential in Andrew Jackson’s campaign
for the presidency, and wrote a defense of him for having
married the lady while her husband was still married to
her.
His dau -- his wife, Mary McConnell White, was the
daughter as I said before, of James White, the founder of
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Nashville and the sister of Hugh Dawson White, who was of a
Senator from Tennessee, and also a candidate for President.
F:
He was?
A:
A (inaudible) for denomination for President, and Martin
van Buren proceeded Andrew Jackson.
The father of Judge
John Overton was James Overton of Hanover County of
Virginia, and married Mary Waller, and that way got kin to
head for Virginia.
And his father was Captain James
Overton of Hanover County, Virginia who married Elizabeth
Garland, and got kin to the rest of Virginia where
(inaudible) Overton’s that came to this country was
William, who came over and settled in [Yucan] County, and
married at (inaudible)town one of the women who came over
in the boatload of wives for the settlers.
And her name
was Elizabeth [Walters], and she was from London, and her
mother cut her off at 10 shillings saying she was said to
be married.
Well, William Overton then living in his
(inaudible) town in Virginia.
(coughing)
Q:
Were there many -- were there --
A:
(overlapping dialogue; inaudible) will.
Q:
We literally know more about the Overton side than we do
about the Thompson side then don’t we as far as where they
came from?
A:
They (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) more.
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Q:
When you think they were better quality and we could trace
them better, or just --?
(laughter)
A:
I am thinking of writing a book on the subject.
Q:
(laughter)
A:
Because I admire the Thompsons very much more than I do the
I wish you would.
Overton.
Q:
That’s the whole -- even though we can’t find as much about
them.
(break in tape)
Q:
Now Mimi, you were telling us about John Overton and his -our --
A:
Who was the grandfather of Mary McConnell Overton who
married John White.
Q:
Right.
A:
He spent a part of his early life here in Nashville to
which place he came about 1789 in mercantile business.
began to make money, he began to buy real estate.
He
In 1797,
he was granted -- as soon as the state was admitting, he
was granted a license to practice (inaudible) to practice
law.
And he practiced law.
we are told, in land.
over the state.
He took much of his fees, so
Here, there, any other place, all
In 1795, he bought (inaudible) of the
Nashville Grant, which was six or seven miles south of
Nashville.
And in 1791, he built a house there, which was
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called Traveler’s Rest.
Said to have been called from the
fact that many people stopped there for the night.
There
were no inns anywhere, and one man came to spend the night,
and stayed 11 years, and one of them stayed for longer for
25.
(laughter)
Q:
(inaudible) but this isn’t the house that’s out here now?
A:
It certainly is.
Q:
Is it that old?
A:
It was from (inaudible).
Q:
Good grief.
A:
Well, John Overton accumulated land, he bought it
everywhere.
I didn’t know it was that old.
He had a large peach orchard he shipped to
produce in a liquid form to New Orleans.
He shipped his
cotton, he made money on his farm, he was a great
horticulturist, and whatever he (inaudible) about fruit, he
bought his -- imported back from New York, imported from
Virginia.
He sold his apples, apple cuttings or whatever
you call them all over the south.
He was a very great land
lover, and very excellent lawyer, and his -- some of his
judgment still stands in land law.
We have his -- that
have been published.
Q:
And all that land out beyond Traveler’s Rest now is a great
pro-division?
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A:
Yes.
He had about 3,000 acres there at the time of his
death.
He left -- over 3,000.
He left 1,200 and a house
to his wife for life, and in her death to his son.
He
changed his will within the last 10 days of his life, by
the way.
He left 1,200 acres to his daughter, who married
Judge [Lee], and he left 1,200 acres to his daughter, who
married Mr. Robert Wrigley, who settled in Memphis, and is
the ancestors of the (inaudible), and they kept that money,
so did Lee.
(laughter)
And the Overton’s didn’t.
Of
course they kept some, but not much.
Q:
All right.
Now we’re going to go to the Maxwell’s.
A:
Now his son, the son of the judge, married a neighbor;
Harriett Virginia Maxwell.
Now, let’s see what she --
she’s already 29.
Q:
All right.
A:
She was the daughter.
Q:
That’s where your name comes from is it?
A:
For whom Maxwell House was named.
F:
Maxwell House was named.
A:
She was the daughter of (inaudible) Maxwell, a comer who
came down from the valley of Virginia, and his wife Martha
[Cleburne], who was the descendent of the big Cleburne
family, who was --
Q:
Oh, that’s where all the -- and that’s where all the
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Cleburne that we’re related to are here.
A:
Yes.
They had three daughters, one of whom was married to
John Overton.
The others didn’t marry (inaudible).
F:
(laughter) They (inaudible).
A:
He was the son -- that Jesse Maxwell was the son of Jesse
Maxwell, who was an immigrant from Ireland, and lived in
Lancaster County, Virginia -- Lancaster County,
Pennsylvania and came down the valley of Virginia.
And
when it got to -- in [Gustier] county, there he found a
woman named Ann Armstrong and married her.
F:
But how did a man named Maxwell immigrant from Ireland?
A:
That’s because he was a Scotch Irishman, as so many were.
And if I had time, I’ll tell you what that means.
His
father was David Maxwell of County (inaudible) in Ireland,
and he married Nelly [McCullough], and that makes you kin
to a whole lot of other people.
Q:
It really does.
Well, now Jesse Maxwell’s daughter, was
Harriett Virginia Maxwell.
A:
And married John Overton.
Q:
Married John Overton.
A:
And they had 10 children; four of them died at birth, and
six remained.
Q:
Now we’re going to the Cleburnes.
And why are we going to
the Cleburnes?
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A:
Because the mother of Harriett Maxwell, who married John
Overton was Martha Ravenscroft Cleburne, who was the
daughter of George Ravenscroft Cleburne, who came from
Virginia, and settled in West Tennessee.
He was the son of
Thomas Cleburne of Brunswick County, Virginia who was a
member of one of the first Congresses.
And I have been
told was the person who delivered a eulogy of George
Washington, and called him first in (inaudible), first in
war, and first in the hearts of his countrymen.
believe that, but been told this.
I don’t
His wife was a
descendant of (inaudible) Mary Cleburne, and she was a
descendent, supposed to be, of Pocahontas.
Don’t believe
that either.
(laughter)
A:
The Cleburne’s go back, I’m told, to different lines.
But
(inaudible) Cleopatra, but I don’t believe that either.
Q:
My goodness.
Who tells all these things, Mimi?
A:
Oh, it was genealogists.
Thomas Cleburne was the son of
Burnell Cleburne and Martha Ravenscroft, from whom comes
the name of one of the family’s (inaudible).
He was the
son of Captain Thomas Cleburne, who married Ann [Fox].
Q:
And then it goes back to the beginning doesn’t it?
says here --
A:
Hey now.
We go back to Page 31A, don’t we?
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No, it
Q:
32.
A:
32.
Very well, I’ll tell you about Ann Fox later.
He was
the son of Lieutenant Colonel Thomas Cleburne who was
killed by an Indian early, and lived at (inaudible)
Virginia, and I have seen his tombstone.
And he was the
son of William Cleburne, the immigrant who came over with
Governor George Yardley as a purveyor, and became Secretary
and treasury -- Treasurer of the Council, and then on the
Council for life.
He was a very distinguished gentleman
with a very bad disposition, which has come down to some
(inaudible).
(laughter)
Q:
Well, this is of Virginia you’re talking about?
A:
Yeah.
Q:
I see.
A:
That’s in Virginia.
Q:
Well, that’s enough of the Cleburne’s.
(break in tape)
All right now Mimi, we’re going to talk about the
Hamilton’s.
A:
And the first one --?
Is Mary Hamilton, the widow Harriett, who was the wife of
the -- the fourth wife of the first John Thompson.
Her
parents were Joseph D. Hamilton, who was born in Rockbridge
County, Virginia and died in Logan County, Kentucky.
wife was Sally [Bedinger] Morgan.
His
The father of Joseph D.
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Hamilton was William Hamilton, and his wife was Mary
[McConnell].
William Hamilton’s father was Robert
Hamilton, born in Ireland, the first one to come to America
to Virginia, and his wife was Margaret McKee, and then they
go on all up forever to Scotland.
(laughter)
Q:
All right.
All right, now we’re going to talk about
(inaudible) D. Hamilton, who was the father of Mary
Hamilton.
A:
Mary Hamilton, and had married Sally B. Morgan, and he was
a man of education.
He was graduated in 1804 from
(inaudible) University, and that’s a college probably in
Kentucky.
And he became the agent of the Bank of Kentucky,
which had branches in the different towns in Kentucky, and
he died young of TB, leaving a wife and five children.
The
remarkable thing about those five children was that their
mother [read] a book, and the book was called The Children
of the [Abbott], and she named four of her children for the
characters in there. One she called the child (inaudible),
and the other she called (inaudible).
(laughter)
A:
I tell she (inaudible) the other she called Oscar
(inaudible), and the one daughter, that’s Mary Hamilton,
was named by her mother Amanda [Nirvana] (inaudible).
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And
I an aunt came to see this, and she said Sally, you’re a
fool, you always were.
(laughter)
A:
(overlapping dialogue; inaudible) naming this girl for
myself, Mary.
And I’m going to name the third child’s name
for my husband, James.
And that’s the only way they’re
going out of The Children of the Abbott.
Q:
(laughter)
That’s wonderful.
A:
Now she, that’s her--Sally B. Morgan -- was the daughter of
Abraham Morgan, who was the son of William Morgan and
[Drusilla Claringer], and through the (inaudible) to go on
back.
Q:
I’m sure it is.
A:
Sir Thomas Claringer, who was a seat in George Washington
for a seat in the house of (inaudible).
F:
Oh boy.
Q:
That really is.
A:
My name, Mary Hamilton, would have Amanda Nirvana
Now Mimi, is this your name?
(inaudible) had not Aunt Hamilton called on Sally and
(overlapping dialogue; inaudible).
Q:
Oh, that’s priceless.
A:
I’m a living descendent of the Richardson’s, the Morgan’s,
and all the (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).
Q:
That’s right, we’re kin to the Morgan’s.
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A:
Exactly.
She had a brother named something Morgan, and
they all descended from there.
(break in tape)
-- one
eight.
Q:
Now where did we get connected with the (inaudible)?
A:
Sally [Benji] Morgan was the granddaughter of Drusilla
Claringer, who married William Morgan.
Where can I find
it?
Q:
It’s in there.
A:
Well, the (inaudible) I can tell you about --
Q:
Well, the other thing I would say is that this is also Mary
Hamilton isn’t it?
A:
That’s also Mary Hamilton.
Q:
All right.
A:
The most distinguished line, possibly, was through the
(pause)
Cleburne’s; the marriage to Ann Fox, who was a West, and
was a descendent of Governor John West, the daughter of
Governor John West, Ann Fox’s mother was daughter of
Governor John West in Virginia, and he was a descendant
from [Lyle Billowa].
And what that woman --
F:
And the name is (inaudible)?
A:
And what is the name of the woman that writes these things
about snow and all kinds of things?
F:
(overlapping dialogue; inaudible)?
A:
Well, she’s kin.
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F:
Oh, good.
A:
That goes back through the Kerry’s.
And William Kerry left
-- married Lady Mary Boleyn, who was a sister of Ann, who
had (inaudible).
F:
Mary Boleyn?
Q:
Now wait a minute, Mimi.
You’re getting me all lost now.
Now -A:
Well, then I’ll just say the Cleburne’s, but I don’t think
should go back to that.
I think that’s close to the
(inaudible) stories, but -Q:
All right.
(laughter) (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).
A:
Then Lady Catherine Kerry’s daughter, and she married Sir
Thomas [Noles], and their daughter Ann Noles married Sir
Thomas and comes down this way.
But from the Noles, you go
up to Sir Thomas Noles, who’s long Mayor of England -- of
London in 1425.
Q:
That’s a long way back.
A:
And then there’s where you go on all way yonder, way
yonder, way yonder until you hit Cleopatra, but I declined,
as we’ve said, (inaudible) Cleopatra.
Sir William Boleyn
of [Brickley] married Margaret Buckler, daughter of Thomas
Buckler, the first (inaudible) and then made a large
(inaudible) with it.
And you see his sister was Ann.
Let’s see then, Sir Thomas married Elizabeth Howard, became
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Earl of Surrey, and later Duke of Norfolk, and of course,
then the other Boleyn.
One married Henry the VIII, one
married William Kerry.
Q:
Well, now I mean you really (inaudible) running all this
back to this side.
A:
It’s just a bit exaggerated extreme.
I think it’s very well to stop at the edge of the Atlantic
Ocean, and not go back into the ancestors of the Cleburne,
and the many alive families in England, and further on.
Of
course some of it -- it’s all -- some of it may be true,
and some of it may not be true, and I don’t get any
particular comfort out of thinking I’m a descendent from
Malcolm the II of Scotland, also of Cleopatra.
So I think
we’ll just cut that part out, and end at the water’s edge.
Q:
All right.
Now should we go back to another line from the
Thompson clan.
A:
No.
Anyone we --?
The Thompsons don’t have much.
Nancy went back
somewhat, and we’ve got letters from the Preacher from
Pennsylvania recommending them to the preacher in North
Carolina.
And Nancy Thompson was the daughter of Joseph,
and (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).
Q:
This is the Thompson that wasn’t the same Thompson as --
A:
No, this was a better Thompson, and the daughter Lauren,
she was born in Pennsylvania, and came down to North
Carolina, and married (inaudible).
And then this is Joseph
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who married Margaret (inaudible).
particular about them.
But I know nothing
They come -- they are the ancestors
of Nancy Thompson, who is the wife of Thomas, the first one
to come to [Davison] County.
Q:
Now Mimi, having decided we would stop at the Atlantic
Ocean -- the Atlantic Ocean’s edge, let’s talk about great
grandfather Thompson, your grandfather Thompson.
A:
John.
Q:
John.
A:
It’s that first John.
Q:
The first John.
What he did, and how he did it, and
compare him in parallel him to Judge John Overton.
A:
No, it’s John Overton’s son.
Q:
I beg your pardon, John Overton’s son.
A:
There was a difference in age between them, although they
Yes.
were both born within the radius of a mile and a half or
two miles.
And they were raised differently, John Thompson
must have come up the very hard way.
here, he never learned to spell.
There were no schools
In his Bible, which I
have, he mentioned his marriage to his four wives and he
spelled it wrong every time, married.
(laughter)
A:
And I think I said before he was a man of outstanding
virtue.
He was admired, he was looked up to, he was
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beloved.
He was very, very ugly.
much greater advantages.
John Overton had very
He was born in 1821 after his
father had reached the top of the leader profession, and
his father was, and also was an intimate friend of the
coming man, Andrew Jackson.
Q:
Yes.
A:
John Thompson went on to raise his family, not quite as
large as John Overton, but they were children of different
ages.
He raised his stepdaughters.
well, the other one didn’t marry.
possible way a good citizen.
He married one of them
And he was in every
John Overton was sent to a
French school in (laughter) in New Orleans.
Q:
My goodness.
A:
And it made a lasting impression on him, but anything could
possibly be.
I’ve never heard him mention a French word
nor and the fact that he had been to a French dancing
school.
He was.
His father had an agent there, through
who he sold his cotton and the products of his very large
farm.
And he was sent down to this agent, and he was put
in this French school.
Well, John Overton became a good
friend of John Thompson cause John Overton by then 21, you
see he was 30 years -- 38 years younger than John Thompson.
Q:
Yes, he is.
A:
He became a very good friend of his, in fact, he would even
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borrow as much as $10,000 from him.
Q:
I’d say that’s a pretty good friend.
A:
That was a good friend.
John Thompson left him the
executor of his estate if his wife, Mary Hamilton, declined
to serve.
She did not decline to serve.
She did serve as
executor of his estate.
Q:
You think that was probably a good thing?
A:
I think it was an excellent thing.
After the gener -- in
the next generation, a son of John Thompson married a
daughter of John Overton, and there has been another
intermarriage between the Thompsons and Overton’s lines
when Ida Thompson, the granddaughter of John, married Henry
Dickinson, the grandson of John Overton.
Q:
Yes.
A:
The Overton’s were people of charm, and the latter years
people of education.
They bank largely on that charm.
The
Thompson’s I don’t think have any charm.
(laughter)
A:
They (inaudible) largely only their being a good citizen,
their interest, they were farmers, good farmers.
But the
Overton’s were very wealthy, and so they would far
(inaudible) and bank on their charm, and found that the
(inaudible) married a man who was quite well known in the
country as being a Secretary of [war], and the others
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didn’t marry anybody else [with that much] reputation.
they lived under the same [suitable] conditions.
want to know what made the difference?
But
And I
The (inaudible) on
Overton, a descendent of John Overton in Davison County
that owns one inch of the Overton land.
Now some of the
Thompsons are still (inaudible).
Q:
Yeah, that’s true.
A:
Now what was the difference?
subject.
I wonder what the difference was.
I’d like to write on that
I think it’s a very nice psychological study.
What is it?
One had education, and money, and charm.
Q:
The other had --
A:
But the other had stick ability.
Q:
I guess.
A:
Stick ability.
Determination.
And they did not -- as far as I know the
Thompsons -- did not put an emphasis on the [prettier]
things of life.
F:
Like what?
A:
Like charm.
(laughter)
A:
Now would you work that out?
I’m not psychologist and I’m
not writer, but it seems to me there’s something there.
Q:
Well, I’m sure it’s not just the case of these two
families, Mimi.
I think that there are many families where
you’re establishing too much leisure and luxury provides
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more incentive for (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).
A:
Well, there wasn’t luxury at Traveler’s Rest, it wasn’t
there.
They had gotten rid of the money mostly before the
next generation came along.
There wasn’t luxury there, and
great grandfather Overton -- of course, younger than
grandfather Thompson -- went through the Civil War.
not in the Army.
He followed the Army.
He was
Just in what
relationship to the Army, I don’t know.
Q:
A (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) maybe.
A:
He went -- he followed his Army, and his wife followed him.
And one of her sons was born in the south -- south of here.
He had to -- they were both in the penitentiary at the same
time, but (inaudible) Andrew Johnson was the Military
Governor of Tennessee.
And John Thompson was just as
generous as John Overton, and a gift to the Confederacy.
But he kept his feet on the ground, and he kept his land.
Now that’s the different -(overlapping dialogue; inaudible)
F:
Now did John Overton lose all his land in the Civil War?
A:
Oh no, not all of it.
He had this 1,200 acres up here.
And but -- and he had some land still in Memphis, which he
gave to each one of his children.
But at the end of the
war, rather in the (inaudible) he was so terribly in debt
that his sons in law got together and paid his debt off.
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Sold his property at Memphis, my father sold it, my mother
sold it, and paid their father’s debt.
his sisters didn’t do that.
shape.
Now the -- all of
They didn’t get him into fair
So grandfather Overton, grandmother had a piece of
property down there, which she sold and invested here on
Market St.
And Martha had some property, which is sold, a
(inaudible) property which was sold, and we inherited.
But
he -- everything just seemed to go away, and he was a man
very much honored, and respected, and an elder in the
church, and said to be very, very honest.
What’s the
difference?
Q:
That is strange.
F:
Now, Mimi, one of the stories that John Thompson, when the
Federal Officers took his possession, land, and
(inaudible)?
A:
But there weren’t cause there weren’t any receipts.
And
out there at Glen Levin, you know, he was too old to fish.
He was 70, and had these two, young sons.
protected.
They had a (inaudible).
And so they were
Of course they shot at
grandmother, and the hole’s still in the wall.
Q:
I know over there.
A:
But they came out and lived.
and the meat.
Q:
Took his horses, his mules,
And he said all right.
Maybe you just want to talk a little louder.
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A:
Oh, I’ll talk a little louder.
He had -- I didn’t know he
bought (inaudible).
Q:
Oh yeah, that’s where they sent (inaudible).
A:
They took his meat and different things of that kind, and
he asked for receipts for them, and they’ll give him a
(inaudible).
And so when the war was over, and the Army of
occupation was cleaning up, they came to him and said you
are assessed $5,000 for this (inaudible) of the [ovens] of
the union soldiers.
regiment.
You help make the ovens, you equip the
And he said that’s perfectly all right. And they
said that you would pay him $5,000 him.
And the old
gentleman said is it Confederate money, Confederate bonds?
Oh no.
He said Army bonds?
Oh, but it’s gold.
All right,
here they are.
(laughter)
A:
And so that’s the way he paid his assessment.
I do not
know how John Overton did it, but that’s the way John
Thompson did it.
Q:
That was very -- very wise, wasn’t he?
A:
Well, he was a wise man without any education.
Q:
I was pleased to see you got this school out here named the
John Overton School.
A:
I didn’t get it.
(inaudible) started the thing.
Q:
Well, he (inaudible) started it, but he called in, he knew
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who to call.
And that’s -- it wouldn’t have happened if
you hadn’t -A:
We did what we could.
Q:
Now what (inaudible) is out there on (inaudible).
A:
Well, it not Overton land, Aunt Martha owned that and she
sold it.
That’s not Overton land.
It was Maxwell land to
begin with.
Q:
And he bought that grant.
A:
And he bought that grant.
and lots of land.
And he bought all the -- lots
Just as John Thompson got lots of land.
Q:
Yeah.
A:
He bought this over here, that’s (inaudible) land, and the
land across the pike, that’s not in the grant.
Q:
I see.
The grant was on his side?
A:
On this side.
Of course it wasn’t at the time, but it was
in to where the [Higgins] are.
Q:
I see.
A:
And then right along here.
But it is in this county there
are two pieces of land being held today and the name in
which the grant was made.
And one of them is here, and the
others are at the (inaudible).
Q:
There was only two then?
A:
In the name.
Of course they’re locked up now by their
descendents.
But in the name, this was piece of
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(inaudible).
Q:
And the one out there.
When was all this addition put on Glen Levin?
Now it
didn’t used to have this long section did it?
It wasn’t
all built the way it is in 1850.
A:
At 1886, the second daughter of John Thompson and lead
(inaudible) died of diphtheria.
Q:
Yes.
A:
And my father and mother were in such a state, that they
felt it was something about the house that maybe getting to
him.
And so we moved to Traveler’s Rest the day after her
funeral, which I remember.
And that addition, the four
rooms in the back -- the kitchen, you know, and the rooms
above it -- were back, and the upstairs porch.
And it was
completed late in 1886, and in 1887, the first day of
February we moved back.
And the second day of February I
came down with diphtheria.
Q:
My goodness, Mimi.
A:
But it had nothing to do with the house.
Unfortunately, at
that time, they tore out (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).
(multiple conversations; inaudible)
A:
All that beautiful wood work, and put in this hardwood.
Q:
Yeah.
Well now that -- when the first house, the back of
the house ran a little further than where the main dining
room is now.
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A:
Right.
The main dining room is and it’s -- and the porch
circled around it.
Q:
I see.
A:
Behind.
It was around behind?
Behind.
But no, not where the fireplace is.
Where the pantry was the bathroom.
Q:
Oh, I see.
I see.
A:
And then it snaked around there, and the kitchen was north
of the house, and there was a covered walkway to come in
the north (inaudible).
Q:
It was there in a circle between there and the (inaudible).
A:
That’s right.
Came in (overlapping dialogue; inaudible),
only there wasn’t any porch to [share] in those days.
came in under a covered walk, into that door, and the
dining room was where the library is now, that parlor.
Q:
I see.
A:
And I’m the only person that (inaudible) remembered.
Q:
(laughter)
A:
And there has been no change made to it since except
That really is amazing.
putting a bathroom in the upstairs floor.
Q:
(inaudible) really fixed it up so well.
A:
Oh, they keep it beautiful.
F:
It’s beautiful.
Q:
It’s really -- he really did fix it up.
F:
It just looks like it.
He did.
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You
A:
And keep it beautifully.
But the only change made, you
see, is the bathroom downstairs and the bathroom upstairs.
You didn’t need to bathe so much in the old days.
(laughter)
A:
But (inaudible) water was pumped into a tank in the first
bathroom, which is where the pantry is.
And it was pumped
up into a tank, and showers all if you pull the string, and
the shower came down, and was always icy cold.
(laughter)
Q:
No wonder you didn’t bathe too often in those days.
A:
Well, it was just dealing with the --
Q:
All right.
(break in tape)
Now we’re going to come up to date so to speak
on this.
A:
John Overton and Harriett Maxwell were married -- I’ve
forgotten the date, but it’s in there.
They had six
children: Otis, Martha married Jim Dickinson, second Jack
(inaudible) who married [Henry Hansley], fourth is Mary
McConnell who married John Thompson, fourth Elizabeth Lee
who married (inaudible), fifth Jesse Maxwell who married
Sadie Williams, and sixth Robert E. Lee Overton who married
Nancy (inaudible).
Q:
My goodness, no wonder we came to so many people here.
starting to begin to see some of this.
All right now,
let’s deal this.
A:
Now the descendents of Martha and Jacob Dickinson were
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I’m
three sons: John Overton, Henry, Jacob [Macadam]
(inaudible).
You all know the descendent.
Q:
Yes.
A:
Henry had five children, Henry and was married (inaudible)
five children: Henry Overton, Joe, Ann, Jacob Macadam,
Overton who married Helen [Trimmen] of Charlestown, two
daughters: Martha, Helen.
Martha married Lou Davis, Helen
married John (inaudible).
Now that’s Martha, of course, of
(inaudible) but that’s 1910, so I won’t do that.
Henry -- (inaudible) five children.
I was at
He married Martha --
Margaret [Schmidt], and she divorced him, and he had five
children.
Then the next one was Jackson Lee, he had four
children: Rachel, John, Harriett, [Henry].
Henry Hansley.
He married
Rachel married Don [Burrows], had no
children but an adopted child.
what’s the name?
Harriett -- John married
Alice [Sholton]; four children.
married John Williams, five children.
Harriett
Mary married W.D
(inaudible) because -- and she had (inaudible).
Then comes
next Mary McConnell, and -Q:
And where did Miss (inaudible) come in there?
A:
Well, she comes in through the Mary McConnell side.
Q:
Well, I’ve got two Marys there in the whole.
And that’s
what I was -A:
She’s a half cousin.
She was half sister to (inaudible)
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when my mother first Major Henry [Ewing], who was killed by
the (inaudible) and had one child, Henry.
Q:
I see.
I see.
A:
And then she married again, Major [Haldeman], who was
killed in a street fight.
For what reason, I don’t know,
in New Orleans.
Q:
My goodness.
A:
And they had one child: Lee, W.D.
Q:
I see.
A:
And he married Henry Holston, who is his cousin through
grandfather Holston’s mother (inaudible) who married the
first time on Henry and had --
(multiple conversations; inaudible)(laughter)
Q:
Very, very intricate.
A:
Well, now that’s Uncle (inaudible) descendent.
But know
this, you know about this don’t you?
Q:
No, tell me.
A:
They had Mary married Sam [Ole], they had Harriett who died
young, they had [Connie] who married A.W. Harris, another
distant relative.
They had John who married Margaret
[Wade], they had Overton who married Margaret [Lipsco],
they had Joe who married [Florence Standers], they had
Elizabeth who married (inaudible).
Q:
Right.
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A:
(inaudible) [Aunt Lucy], the next one, married first
(inaudible) other cousin, and had no children, had adopted
(inaudible) and naturally had no children.
Then the next
one was [Joseph], and he married Sadie Williams and had
three children.
And the next one was Robert, he lived
(inaudible) and had four sons.
Q:
I see.
And that’s why they spread, and that’s why all the
cousins.
A:
And then -- you want to know the rest?
That’s all built
into it.
Q:
Well, let’s talk about Joseph Hamilton Thompson now.
A:
You?
Q:
No.
A:
Four children.
Q:
No.
A:
Four children.
Q:
Not I, great uncle Joe.
A:
Uncle Joe had married Ella [Vaughan].
Q:
Well, now he was the -- he was the brother --?
A:
Of John Thompson.
Q:
All right.
A:
And he married Ella Vaughan, and he had three children:
(laughter)
(laughter)
Emma who married (inaudible) first and [Howard Lee] the
second, and Ida who married Henry [Davidson], and little
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Joe, who died when he was a year old.
Then he married his
second marriage, Wendy [Demo], and had one son, Joseph H.
Hamilton.
Joseph Hamilton Thompson Jr. Who married
Elizabeth [Lacy] and had two daughters.
Q:
Yes.
A:
And that’s Uncle Joe, and that finishes up that generation.
Q:
Now we’re going to discuss who?
A:
We’re going to discuss the descendents of the first
marriage of Mrs. Judge John Overton.
Her name was Mary
McConnell White.
Q:
Yes.
A:
She married first after Francis [Mead].
children.
(pause)
She had -- (pause)
first one was named --
(pause)
She had five
I’m trying -- the
I don’t know about that.
I know his name, but he died early, and left no
descendents.
And the second one left -- never married,
that was Jackson [Lee].
The oldest one died first of
(inaudible) [Anthony].
Anthony was the first child after
me, he died unmarried.
Jackson Lee died unmarried.
third son was James Mead.
The
He married Miss Eliza [Perkins].
He had (inaudible) married Sam Perkins, a cousin of -- Ann
married Major Henry Ewing, killed at the Battle of
(inaudible).
either.
And Mary (inaudible), who didn’t marry
And then he had a son whose name was Willy, and
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cousin Willy had three daughters: Lily Mead, Annie Mead
daughter who married, Susan Mead married (inaudible) and
doesn’t live with him, but not divorced.
They’re great
friends, but they don’t live together.
(laughter)
Q:
Great friends.
A:
My (inaudible) from Annie Mead, who married Major Henry
Ewing, descended cousin Henry Ewing, a female.
And also
from her second marriage, [Bea Mortimer], who married the
daughter of Jackson Mead Overton named Henry.
I suppose
that’s -- (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).
F:
She married her cousin.
Q:
And that’s why their name calls them Henry Henry.
They had
no sons.
A:
Her name was Eliza, and her father was killed a week after
she was -- after she was born, and they changed her name to
Major Henry Ewing.
(laughter)
He was killed in battle,
and (inaudible) she was called.
Q:
I see.
I see.
A:
Now Susan Mead was married to Mr. Sam Perkins, of course
that was kinfolk -- her kinfolks.
She had cousins in
(inaudible), you remember her?
F:
Just maybe.
A:
And cousin [Sanford].
But I’ll tell you something else,
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and maybe you won’t like this so much.
Uncle James Mead,
it was my grandfather Overton’s half brother, had a
daughter on the other side of the Atlantic, and her name
was Tommy, and you probably remember her.
Q:
Tommy Mead?
Well, I declare.
A:
She was the daughter of Uncle James by Aunt Lucy.
Q:
That really is something.
A:
My Aunt Lucy was my nurse, and Manny was (inaudible).
Q:
And you took care of Tommy Mead?
A:
Oh, of course.
Q:
How old was --?
A:
98 when she died.
Q:
Was she 98?
Think of that.
there, right in the lake.
A:
Q:
Now Mimi, I’ll go back beyond
And dad or somebody told me --
About a (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).
-- about a little piece of land back there that cousin Dee
(inaudible) had bought from Tommy Mead.
A:
I never paid him.
Q:
Didn’t you ever pay him?
A:
No.
F:
Why not?
A:
I just didn’t.
Heard of some interest on it, but he never
paid for it.
Q:
And now who owns it?
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A:
I don’t know.
[Sudocom].
Q:
I think it is, part of the Sudocom properties.
A:
Part of Sudocom properties.
Q:
Well, my goodness gracious.
A:
And she, you know, was his mother’s half-sister.
Was
Mead’s mother’s half-sister.
Q:
That’s right.
F:
(inaudible).
Q:
All right now, Mimi.
We’ve talked about all of these
people, and certainly you knew some of them, and about a
lot of others.
What do you see in the way of family traits
that are still present: good or bad?
A:
Well, it’s hard to say that I see bad ones.
But when I was
young and younger, my mother used to say when any of us
were very cantankerous, that’s the [Craven] in you.
(laughter)
A:
So I think the Cravens must have been cantankerous, and
those I have known have been decidedly cantankerous.
I
have just been thinking of one family that have great
energy, but didn’t like to work.
That’s one set of them.
I mean didn’t like the kind of work that people have to do
to get ahead in certain lines.
the Overton’s.
I’ve spoken of the charm of
And I think a great many of them still like
to exercise that charm.
I see some of the Thompsons that
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have really put their noses to the ground stone and work, I
know two of them.
Two of the younger members of the family
who work while others in the trust (inaudible) in the bank,
and it was (inaudible) stays there too long, and the other
one is an insurance agent.
not, I don’t know.
children.
And whether it’d kill him or
He better work cause he’s got a lot of
And I think our women, to some extent -- I mean,
in most cases, have been married very well.
I think my two
daughters have married remarkably well, and (overlapping
dialogue; inaudible) their husbands are never going to make
a great splash in the world maybe.
They love their wives,
and their wives love them, and there’s nothing more to be
considered in the way of happiness.
Q:
That sure is true.
A:
And I have a niece who married a man who’s outstanding in
his line as a professor of English.
He’d still have the
high -- can’t always understand him, but I have a high
regard for him, and she is a thoroughly happy person.
And
I think she’s married beautifully.
Q:
Yes.
A:
And I’ve seen some others among this generation that have
married so well.
One’s married a portrait painter, and I
can imagine many things that I’ve enjoyed more than being
the wife of a portrait painter when I had to go and
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entertain the sitter while he painted a portrait.
don’t think I would care for that.
(coughing)
And I
Another one
is not a very successful business man, and she has the
children, and she’s very much burdened with looking after
children and grandchildren.
But that is fine, that’s what
every woman ought to be burdened in doing.
Q:
What do you think of the future of how (inaudible) with
only one grandson with the name, do you think we’ll run out
of Thompsons (inaudible)?
A:
Yes.
I think it follows out the story of the -- in the
vein of American families.
As I told you before, there are
only two pieces of land in Davison county, and the male
name of which it’s taken out is land grants.
Many of the
females have held onto it, but the males seem to disappear.
It’s very strange.
one boy.
But that seems to be -- there’s only
That’s all of these Thompsons, there’s one boy to
carry on the name.
Not that it’s a particularly
distinguished name, because the whole lot of them in the
telephone book.
Q:
Yeah.
(laughter)
A:
But still, we don’t -- we haven’t got many [blocks] on the
Thompsons, and I really have sense enough to go crazy.
I hope my grandfather’s statement still stands.
Q:
What about the future of middle Tennessee in the
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But
(inaudible) bonds and so on?
A:
Of the future of middle Tennessee is just in flux at the
moment.
Whether it’ll be industrious, whether it will
remain a gray area.
The happiness, I think, would be to
have an agricultural middle Tennessee.
I’m afraid it is
going to be industrialized, and bring with it all of the
unpleasant parts of industrialization.
sad.
I think that’s very
I see no particular reason for an atom bomb to be
dropped over us.
(inaudible).
We’re never going to have anything that’s
There’s an industrial way here, and I’m
certainly not going to run from an atom bomb.
Q:
You’re just going to sit right here and wait?
A:
They can plant and hit me, that’s all right with me.
But
if they think industrialization is going to make middle
Tennessee any happier.
Q:
Well, it’s certainly wonderful (inaudible) whether it was
of the Thompson pride and affiliated name.
A:
And fortunately, of all the descendants of our Thompsons,
there is not one that is [defected], and I think that’s
perfectly normal.
Q:
A:
That all of the --
That’s good.
-- (inaudible) a member of (inaudible) service.
Q:
That’s really remarkable.
A:
And brand, a brand.
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(laughter)
Q:
It’s not normally done.
A:
We’ve never had so far, but one Phi Beta Kappa, and he must
have -- it’s fine to have (inaudible).
F:
Peggy?
A:
Peggy Smith.
Q:
I didn’t know that.
A:
She just recently got it.
Peggy Thompson Smith is a Phi Beta Kappa.
That’s wonderful.
I have -- didn’t have any
children who were Phi Beta Kappa’s and so far, I have no
grandchildren.
I’m hoping.
Q:
You might well have it.
A:
I may have, but I haven’t got one now, and you may have
some Phi Beta Kappa’s, which haven’t gone yet.
Q:
Yup.
Any comments to add?
F:
Not for me.
Q:
Well, maybe this is end time, and we’ll certainly preserve
it and pass it down to the next five generations so they’ll
know.
A:
I think, maybe it’s not important because we’re not
important people, but anybody that wants to know about the
family is going to have a good amount of facts from this.
Q:
Yes.
A:
We’re not I suppose the most socially prominent, we
certainly are not the most financially prominent.
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We just
plain decent.
Q:
That’s what I want to do.
Like getting a compliment in itself.
(multiple conversations; inaudible)
Q:
Well, that’s fine.
Thank you.
(background noises)
This
has been the recalling of Mary Hamilton Thompson Orr, the
first daughter of John Thompson and Mary McConnell Overton
as told by her, at her home, the evening of May 11th, 1958
on the original land grant of Thomas Thompson.
END OF AUDIO FILE 1
Q:
Well, this is January 1st, 1963.
And we want to have a
record of the history of the properties, and homes, and
buildings of the Thompson-Overton clan.
And Mimi, let’s
begin by talking about Thomas Thompson and the Glen Levin
property, and how he got it, and what he did with it.
A:
All right.
Thomas Thompson with a group of young men, four
of them I believe, you can read about it in Ramses
[Analysis], which is right over yonder in a book shelf.
Came overland, of course, from North Carolina to set up
their claim, to establish their claim to grants of land,
which had been given them for services in the North
Carolina militia.
They reached Nashville in February, 1780
and crossed from the north on the river -- on the ice,
because it was frozen over.
Q:
Now is this before or after the folks with the Cumberland
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Compact idea?
A:
Oh no.
This was before the Cumberland Compact.
They got
here in February 1780, the Cumberland Compact was May the
1st, 1780.
Q:
Well, what about James [Robinson], and the group that came?
A:
Well, they came in 1779.
James -- that group.
Though that
people -- there were people before him who didn’t know -the (inaudible) came before him.
Q:
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
A:
So then Ray -- they -- Robinson with his group had come,
and had put in a -- put in some corn out a crop, and they
had made a crop here.
But in ’70 -- in February 1780, this
group of young men, [McAllen] was one of them, ran through
I think was the other, but that’s in -- you can find that
all in the Ramses Analysis -- came here and established
their claim.
Their right to buy land in the western
district at 10 cents an acre.
A Private could have 640
acres, a Captain, that was the amount.
So evidence that
Thomas was a Private, because he got himself 640 acres.
(background noise) Well, you want to start over again then.
Q:
Yeah.
A:
So Thomas did.
Thomas stayed here a short while.
here at the signing of the Cumberland Compact.
He was
present, he was one of those who signed his name.
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He was
He went
back to North Carolina, and returned some years later
bringing with him a wife.
She also had been named -- was
named Thompson; she was Nancy Thompson.
And her parents
had come evidently in that group of Scotch-Irish that
settled in Western Pennsylvania.
They came to North
Carolina, we have a record of a recommendation to the
church in North Carolina from the pastor in Western
Pennsylvania.
She was the daughter of Lawrence Thompson.
Well, they were married.
They were no relation, but they
were married in North Carolina, and came here to middle
Tennessee -- what is now middle Tennessee.
what they called in that day.
suppose.
I don’t know
The Western District, I
And he had his land surveyed and laid out on Mill
Creek it was called.
Mill Creek is some distance from the
land at present, but I think it’s first ever that’s on Mill
Creek.
He built a little block house near a spring.
Every
house was built near a spring, naturally.
Q:
Yeah.
A:
And there, as far as I know, all of his children were born.
His oldest son, John, was born in 1793.
So it shows that
Thomas Thompson arrived here in the neighborhood of maybe
1790.
He had two sons, one who died rather young named
Robert, and then three daughters.
And as far as I know,
they lived in the block house for, oh I would say 15-20
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years.
Q:
Well, now where was the block house located?
A:
The block house look -- was located near -- behind what
used to be Brightwood.
The son -- the home of his grandson
Joe Thompson built on Thompson land.
That’s now been sold,
and I believe there’s a bottling works there.
Q:
Yes.
But it was back behind that on the --
A:
Back behind that.
Q:
On the Thompson main property?
A:
On the Thompson main property.
I could --
I could locate the place, I
think because it was on a hillside, rather rocky, and the
spring came from beneath that.
Q:
But it was not built over here by the Glen Levin’s main?
A:
Oh no.
Not at all.
It was built there, and I think for 20
years or more, maybe more than 20 years, the family lived
there.
Well, John -- Thomas Thompson was evidently a
(laughter) a -- what should we call him?
An open-hearted
gentleman, and he ran security for many of his friends, and
the result was that his land was rather heavily mortgaged.
His son John grew to manhood, or rather became able to earn
a living and worked.
And finally, was able to free, bought
up the mortgages, and was able to pay them all.
And that
way, he came possessed of the whole 640 acres, which is -which had been granted to his father.
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Q:
I see.
A:
His sisters, evidently, as far as I know, had no interest
in it.
Q:
I see.
A:
One married a Ewing, one married a [Chadworth], one married
a Camel.
And that’s all I know about them.
some of the descendents of theirs.
maybe before 1820 at any rate.
Though I know
Nancy Thompson died, oh
And Thomas Thompson lived
with his son John, who established a home over another
spring, but further to the west, which place received the
name, much later, of Glen Levin, and is still known as Glen
Levin.
On the Frank -- now, on the Franklin Road.
Q:
Yeah.
A:
But there was no road at that time.
The road ran east of
the present road.
Q:
Oh, did it really?
A:
Yes, ran behind where that Glen Levin house is today.
Q:
I see.
A:
A good many (clears throat) a part -- it’s said -- it is -this is said: a part of the Army that marched south and
took part in some of the Jackson wars, and finally wound up
at the battle of New Orleans camped, and on part of this
place.
Because the northern part of this place -- of Glen
Levin near where Thompson land leads to Franklin [Park] at
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present was called the camp lot.
Q:
I see.
A:
Even in my memory.
Q:
Isn’t that something?
A:
And that was known as the camp lot.
lived ‘til 1847.
Well, Thomas Thompson
He lived with his son (background sound),
the same son John who had become -- well, prosperous enough
to establish a home of his own.
marrying habit.
John, his son, had a
He married four times.
And the home that
he established with his first wife is still maintained
there on the Franklin Park.
Though the site is occupied by
the third building on that site.
Q:
I see.
A:
Evidently, Thomas had served in an Army in North Carolina
during those years when he was absent from the land that he
had staked out over in Tennessee.
Which gave him a
pension, so he did have a pension through -- from the
United States government through the last years of his
life.
And just why?
I don’t know.
Q:
I see.
A:
But he lived with his son John, who had married and built
the first house over there in 1824.
Q:
What was the first house like?
A:
The first house was a log house.
I mean -I don’t know how large it
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was, but it must have been rather large because we have
records in old letters of men -- mentions in old letters to
people staying there, visiting there.
So it must have been
a house of some size.
Q:
Was it located about where Glen Levin is now?
A:
It’s located just about where the present house is located.
At least, that is my understanding.
until he married the fourth time.
And he lived there
(phone ringing)
(pause)
Three of John Thompson’s wives were widows -- had been
widows, and had children.
So the house must have been
quite large to accommodate them.
When he married the
fourth time, which he did in 1851, she also was a widow
with a family; one daughter.
And several other members of
her family lived, at times, at Glen Levin.
It had been
called Glen Levin -- named Glen Levin by the 3rd wife who
was Martha Dunn, daughter of Michael Dunn, one of the early
and distinguished citizens of Nashville, and then Mrs.
Rollins.
And she was rather keen on reading Scotch
literature, I think maybe Scot’s novels or something.
But
she got the glee in the name of Glen Levin from one of
them.
And that it bear -- that name it bears until today.
Soon after, well, five years -- six years after he married
his last wife, Mary Hamilton [house].
He built to the
north of the present location a new house for her.
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It had
a good many modern improvements, of which he did not
entirely approve.
And it was supposed to be the last word
in comfort, and that kind of thing.
And the night before
they were to move from the old log house to the new house,
they both burned.
Q:
Both houses burned?
A:
Both houses burned to the ground.
Q:
My goodness.
A:
Some of the furniture was saved.
We have some of the
furniture that was in the log house.
In fact, on one piece
of the furniture there’s a scorch placed where they had to
roll this big bed out of a downstairs bedroom by knocking
out the wall.
Q:
Which bed is this, Mimi?
A:
That’s the bed in the second room there.
If you notice,
there’s a little scarred place toward the start.
It’s in
the downstairs bedroom.
Q:
Yeah, I know what you mean.
A:
And also some furniture that he had bought for his fourth
wife, that’s where the table came from.
That table was in
the fire.
Q:
Oh really?
A:
And the family moved, which then consisted of two small
sons, and the daughter of his wife by a former marriage
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into the wash house. (laughter)
Which was -- which I
remember.
Q:
Not the wash houses over there?
A:
No.
It had three rooms to it, as far as I can remember,
and a porch in front.
Now just how they all got in there,
I don’t know.
Q:
Yeah.
A:
But they lived there while the pleasant Glen Levin was
built.
Right.
It was completed in 1857.
That was -- we have
today, I think the contract drawn up by John Thompson.
he is said to have been the architect.
like the other house.
And
He said he didn’t
It had too many closet and things,
so he drew the plan for the present house, which is
guiltless of a closet.
Q:
That’s true.
There’s no closet in this one.
A:
Except the one built on the back porch.
Naturally, no --
there was a bathroom, at the present it is a pantry.
there was a bathroom.
But
And there was the water supply was a
symptom to the north of the house, and pump the water for
the bath was pumped by hand into a tank above the bathtub.
It was one of -- it was a rather early edition of the
present shower, and you were supposed to pull it.
Q:
(laughter)
A:
It was.
Then covered with water.
You were supposed to pull the string, and that
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would release the cold water.
Q:
Good grief.
A:
I’ve often heard that discussed.
Q:
Yeah, I’m sure.
A:
I vaguely remember the bathroom, just very vaguely.
Q:
Well, now who built Glen Levin if he drew the plans and so
(laughter)
on?
A:
I don’t know who the builder was.
I know that some of the
timber used was cut off the place.
For instance, there are
sleepers under the front of the house of yellow [poplar].
And being too long, they extended through one room and into
the middle of the hole.
Many years later, a fireplace was
put in the hole -- there never had been a fireplace there - and after years of use, the timbers beneath the fireplace
had become charred.
Q:
Become charred?
You mean they were actually burned
(overlapping dialogue; inaudible)?
A:
Yes, they were actually burned.
And a fire started, and we
noticed the smoke creeping up the wall in the -- of the
room behind the fireplace.
Q:
My goodness.
A:
And we couldn’t find it at first, we looked all over the
house.
There was no sign -- there was smoke, but there was
no sign of flame, and it couldn’t be found for some time.
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And finally, they discovered that it was from these charred
-- these poplar logs underneath.
Q:
They’d been there all that time?
A:
And they’ve been there ever since 1857.
And this thing, of
course we fixed it, so they were cut off.
Q:
Well, now what does it -- what did the contract actually
say?
It seems to me Aunt Margaret showed me that [will].
Said I promise to build this house and so on.
A:
Well, I laid out all of that record which I haven’t.
The
contract said it must be built within a certain time.
Q:
Yes.
A:
It must use certain kinds of timber.
Q:
Yes.
A:
And certain kinds of brick, and it must be built just like
he drew it.
Of course, he had no architectural ability at
all, but he could draw a square place, and that was a room.
Q:
(laughter)
Well now, the bricks were made on the place?
A:
Not that I know of.
I don’t think they were.
The bricks
for Traveler’s Rest were made on the place.
Q:
I see.
A:
But I don’t think the bricks for Glen Levin were.
The
house remained as (laughter) John Thompson built it, and he
lived there with his fourth wife, his two sons, her
daughter who married, and someone else.
I mean someone who
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was not connected with the family at all, Mister -- a
Captain W.G. Ewing, who had been wounded in the Civil War.
He was a veteran of the Civil War, and had a wooden leg.
And the wooden leg was stowed at Glen Levin, and used to be
a matter of great interest to us children to go looking at
the weird Ewing’s -- (laughter)
Q:
But he left it.
A:
-- wooden leg.
But he left it when he died.
quite interesting we thought.
That was
When John Thompson died in
1876 just sort of his 83rd birthday -- you see, I’ve
outlived him.
Q:
Yes, indeed.
You’re the first one in the family to do so.
A:
I’m the first one who ever outlived that.
He left a most
remarkable will, which I wish all of his descendants would
read, and would realize and appreciate what this man was.
He had no particular education.
In fact, I have his Bible
at the moment, in which he entered all four marriages, and
spelt marriage wrong each time.
Q:
A different way each time.
A:
(laughter)
(laughter)
He had no particular education, he was an
excellent business man.
We are still eating, and I don’t
know if we would be if it had not been for John Thompson.
He bought property in the city of Nashville, which the
family still owned.
And a few of us own some of the
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property were Glen Levin Farm was.
Not very many of us,
I’m sorry to say, and we don’t own much of it.
Q:
Well now is Aunt [Boo’s] land on there?
A:
Yes, Aunt Boo’s land, and this land.
Q:
And Billy [Cannon’s] land.
A:
And Billy Cannon’s land.
Q:
That’s all.
A:
That’s all still of the grant.
There’d been no deeds to
this particular part except for deeds of petition.
Except
when I gave it to my son, and bought it back from his
widow.
Q:
Yes.
A:
That’s all we did to this except deeds and petition.
Q:
To this particular -- yeah.
A:
Well, Glen Levin existed as John Thompson had left it until
Right.
his older son, John, married a neighbor -- Mary McConnell
Overton -- and started raising his family.
In 1886, one of
the children died of diphtheria, and at that time, it was
felt that a -- the disease might originate in some
unhealthy condition surrounding the house.
Q:
So --
Well, now the interior of the home of Glen Levin until then
was much like the Hermitage, was it not?
The stairway and
so on inside?
A:
Yes, the stairway was a curving stairway, and my father,
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John Thompson II tore it out and put in the present
hardwood [higher].
Q:
That was the golden oak era?
A:
That was the golden oak era.
Q:
The first machine made.
A:
He tore out all the colonial, white woodwork (laughter) and
put in hardwood except in the southern rooms where the
money gave out, and he didn’t get a chance to change them.
Q:
(laughter)
A:
The house was added to another -- a servant’s wing was put
on.
Another bathroom was installed at the end of a long,
upper porch.
Most peculiar place to put a bathroom, but
the idea was that you mustn’t have a bathroom near a
bedroom or you’d get some diphtheria germs.
Q:
(laughter)
I see.
A:
And see --
Q:
They had said that was the coldest porch to go across when
you were --
A:
That was the coldest porch.
(laughter)
And we would
parade across it in our night clothes and so on.
is not structured to change.
The house
It was merely added to and
changed on the inside.
Q:
I see.
A:
And it is occupied by a grandson of the builder, and
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beautifully cared for by her.
happen to it.
Q:
I hope nothing will ever
I hope --
Uncle Overton has put it in the best shape it’s been, I
guess in all its history really.
A:
Yes, I’ve no doubt.
It is as well cared for.
They’re
very, very careful to keep up with everything.
Q:
Yes.
A:
It was owned, at one time, by me.
And I not being able to
take it over, turned it over to my sister, Mrs. Albert W.
Harris.
Q:
Yes.
A:
And she gave it to her nephew, Overton Junior and it’s
occupied by his husband -- by his father.
Q:
Yes, right.
A:
And beautifully cared for.
Q:
Yes.
A:
I’m hoping that there will never be anybody who would want
to tear it down and put something more modern in its place.
It’s hard to heat, and -- but very comfortable to live in.
Q:
Uncle always done mighty well with the heating system he’s
used.
A:
Oh yes.
They’re using a heating system of electricity.
do not know what his electric bills are.
I
I imagine they’re
astronomical.
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Q:
I’m sure they’re pretty high.
A:
But there’s -- it’s -- there’s no excavation under the main
part of the house.
Q:
No.
A:
And so there was no way to put a furnace in except at very
great expense, and some danger to the walls possibly.
The
walls, of course, are brick and it is built for the ages.
Q:
Yes.
A:
I think that’s safe.
The story of Glen Levin.
But one
thing about Glen Levin, I think we should have John
Thompson’s will emblazoned there for one sentence in it, he
left a certain amount of money for his wife to continue to
be able to offer the hospitality to friends and neighbors,
which it’d been his pleasure to offer.
Q:
And you don’t find that anymore today.
(laughter)
A:
You don’t find that in anybody in the world today.
Cause I
have often thought of having that put on a Christmas card
with a picture of Glen Levin.
I think it would be nice.
Q:
It would be most appropriate.
A:
Glen -- this builder, John Thompson, divided his land -- he
had bought more than the 640 acres -- between his two sons:
John and Joe.
And he gave Joe an extra $10,000 to build a
house because he had left Glen Levin -Q:
To John.
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A:
To John.
Q:
And this was Brightwood?
A:
And Joe built a house called Brightwood for $3,500.
That
being Joe’s temperament, and put the rest away.
Q:
(laughter) That’s what I’ve inherited.
(laughter)
A:
And his family has -- has a good deal more money than the
John Thompson family because of Joe’s temperament.
Q:
Well now, he built Brightwood on Thompson lane.
A:
He built Brightwood on a lane, which was later lane
Thompson.
Q:
Oh, is that so?
I see.
I see.
A:
And it has now been commercialized.
Q:
The property is.
A:
And so the property is very much more valuable.
Q:
And Brightwood was raised two years ago?
A:
Yes.
Q:
Yes.
A:
And there is a building on it now.
Q:
Yes.
A:
The whole parlor -- the land -- the land was divided among
It’s all commercial.
Two years ago it was sold to a bottling works.
the three children or their descendents of Joe Thompson and
has been variously sold off.
Q:
Yes.
A:
So I believe only one child owns a home on it, that’s Adam.
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Q:
Yes.
And there’s not much of that property left now is
there?
A:
Very little of that property left.
They got it at a very
much larger price, and then it was sold on the Franklin
Park.
The property on the Franklin Park joined that of the
wife of John Thompson II.
And so it was included in that
farm, and has been sold and broken up among the children,
and sold.
So only two of the children, and one grandchild,
own any of it.
Q:
Still remaining, right.
Now let’s talk about Traveler’s
Rest, Mimi.
A:
Well, (clears throat)
(sighs)
(pause) in 1766, there was
born in Louisa County, which was Hanover County at that
time, Virginia.
The eighth child of a couple -- of James
Overton and Mary Waller.
an early settler Virginia.
James Overton was a descendent of
I’ll hold on to take -- to tell
you about his ancestry because I don’t believe some of its
been published about it, and I’m not going to record that I
believe it.
Q:
(laughter)
A:
At any rate, James Overton and Mary Waller had eight
children.
Right.
The youngest one of them was the son, John.
the other children went on and made their marriages in
Virginia.
And when John was 21, he went to visit or to
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And
live with his older brother Waller Overton, who had settled
on the grant of land to James Overton for services in the
French and Indian War, which was in what is now Kentucky.
John Overton, at 21, went to Kentucky and lived there with
his brother Waller and his wife, and family.
There, in
Kentucky he met up with a family which had -- they say had
-- I don’t know what -- don’t know if this is true -- have
come from Louisa or Hanover, which had been cut off of
Hanover.
And married to one of the sons, and very
unhappily married to them was a woman, Rachel [Donaldson],
the daughter of one of the pioneers who settled in
Nashville.
unhappy.
She and her husband, Louis [Robards] were very
And John Overton met up with them.
Rachel was
some homesick for her home.
Q:
He met her there did he?
A:
He met here there.
And she was so homesick for her home on
the bluffs as they called it.
desire to go there.
She inspired him with a
And I suppose, gave him a letter to
her mother because when he did come to the bluffs, he found
a boarding place with the widow Donaldson, the mother of
Rachel Donaldson Robards.
And boarding there, and living
in a cabin on the place, was a tall, ranger, red-headed
young man from North Carolina named Andrew Jackson.
So he
and John Overton occupied a cabin on the widow Donaldson’s
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place.
And I’m perfectly certain that they talked
politics.
I’m certain to that fact, because Overton’s
mother’s nephew, his first cousin, had married Thomas
Jefferson’s sister.
And Thomas Jefferson was the great God
of that part of Virginia.
Q:
Yes.
(laughter)
A:
Because Louisa County, you know, is just next to
(inaudible).
So I’m perfectly certain that John Overton
and Andrew Jackson in the long, winter evenings when there
was nothing but a candle to read by -- they had books to
read -- talk politics.
And maybe Andrew Jackson became
inspired with some of the same ideas of Thomas Jefferson.
And in the future, the seventh President of the United
States was a political descendent of the third.
that’s just my idea.
Well,
And I don’t know anybody living who
can disprove that.
Q:
(laughter)
I see.
Well now, Mimi, is it the -- is it also
true that Andrew Jackson first learned about his wife to be
from John?
A:
Well, certainly from John Overton and from Mrs. Donaldson,
whoever that was in the correspondence with the daughter
knew how unhappy she was.
And Mrs. Donaldson very unwisely
sent Mr. Andrew Jackson on a errand to go up there and
bring Rachel down to her mother.
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Q:
Yeah, she asked him to do so didn’t she?
A:
She asked him to do so.
And John Overton -- I have this in
a letter so I know it’s true -- John Overton became aware
of the fact that Andrew Jackson was interested in this
Rachel.
She seemed to have had a face that launched a
thousand ships, so I don’t see why from looking at her
portrait.
But at any rate, he brought her down, and became
very much interested in her.
leave.
And John Overton told him to
That he was bringing disrepute of himself and
gossip on her that to leave the house, he must not stay
there.
And so he went -- Andrew Jackson did -- went and
boarded with Casper [Manskell].
Q:
Now this is up in Kentucky?
A:
No, right in the edge of --
Q:
Oh, here?
A:
It was here, just at the edge of Tennessee.
Q:
I see.
A:
Well, that was the beginning of that.
Overton studied law, I do not know.
to find out.
Just where John
I’ve never been able
Andrew Jackson was a graduated and licensed
lawyer when he came here with Judge [McMerry] who
established the first court while it was still, as you
know, in North Carolina.
Q:
Yes.
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A:
That’s the reason Andrew Jackson came.
Well, he and John
Overton immediately set up very close relationships, though
they were never law partners.
from letters.
I know that to be a fact
And John Overton was -- had a -- the money
touch, I reckon where he got any money, I don’t know.
didn’t get it from his father, I know, in Virginia.
He
But he
went into a business, a mercantile business with a man
named Douglas.
Q:
Well, now he came here about what date when he moved in
with Mrs. Donaldson?
A:
He came here at seven -- in 1788.
Q:
And lived with Mrs. Donaldson.
A:
He became rather prosperous.
find that in letters.
now Front Street.
Right.
How?
I don’t know because I
He built himself a house on what is
His father gave him two Negroes, and he
seems to have supported himself and them very well for -- I
found many bills for very expensive coals, and also very
expensive wines.
And he -- with this Douglas -- evidently
made a good deal of money.
Because he guaranteed a
shipment of $5,000 worth of things to be sold in Douglas’
store from Pittsburgh, which was brought across to the
river.
Q:
I see.
A:
And down the river, to Louisville, then from Louisville up
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to Nashville.
Well, that’s -- the reason I’m telling you
that is to tell you why Traveler’s Rest?
In 1795, that was
just before Tennessee became a state, John Overton bought
attractive land from the infant heirs of Charles [Maxworth]
who had received it as a grant for the same kind of
services that Thomas Thompson had rendered to his native
state, and was coming over here to have it laid out and
surveyed.
When Charles Maxworth got drowned in the [Caney
Fall River] on the trip home from North Carolina.
So the
place was for sale for the guardians of two minor children,
and John Overton bought it.
time.
He bought 300 acres at the
He did not build on this land up from Nashville
until 1798.
By that time, Tennessee had become a state,
Andrew Jackson had become who was his close -- closest,
most intimate friend, had become the first representative
in Congress from the new state of Tennessee.
Q:
Yes.
A:
And John Overton, possibly through Andrew Jackson’s
influence, if he had any, had been appointed supervisor of
the revenue.
Now that would be internal revenue collector.
Now, I suppose that he was supervisor of the revenue.
And
for that reason, everybody seems to think he had some
money, and I found numbers and numbers of letters to him
trying to borrow money from him.
He did not lend the
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United States money as far as I could found out.
only one letter thanking him.
Jackson.
I found
That was from Andrew
He borrowed some money from him.
But at any
rate, in 1798, John Thompson had succeeded Andrew Jackson
on the bench as Judge of the Court of Law and Equity, which
Andrew Jackson gave up -Q:
A:
Yes.
-- to go to the -- to Congress.
And he started building
Traveler’s Rest, which is -- the front part is still
standing as he built it.
Is built of logs, modest of -- of
dressed logs, molded together.
And it was, so our
architect us -- I don’t entirely agree with him -- that it
was one room on top of another.
I think it was two rooms.
Q:
Side by side?
A:
Side by side.
Q:
And a dog trot.
A:
And then two rooms above because we have the remains of a
With a dog trot in the middle.
staircase, but he said the other two rooms were built
later.
Q:
I don’t believe it.
Well, now, I mean he was not -- John Overton was not
married, cause he --
A:
No.
No.
John Overton was a bachelor, and tried to marry a
good many times.
Q:
I found letters to that effect.
(laughter)
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A:
We are very, very fortunate in having found a great deal of
his correspondence, which has been preserved, and is in the
archives.
And I had the pleasure of reading it.
great many guests in that house.
He had a
He had the wife and
children of one of his nephews, who was in Andrew Jackson’s
war in 1812.
They came and stayed with him during the war.
Q:
I see.
A:
And so the house was very, very well occupied.
And I think
it was the four rooms: two downstairs, and two above, a
kitchen, and a yard.
Q:
To have any (inaudible) people at all, it had to be a
pretty good --
A:
It had to be a good size.
Q:
Yes.
A:
He also built an office in the yard.
office.
Every estate had an
There’s one over at Glen Levin, if you remember.
The little back thing there is called the office.
Q:
Oh, I didn’t realize that.
A:
Oh, yes.
Q:
I see.
A:
And there’s, of course, is where you met the hands on the
That’s always called the office.
place.
Q:
Yes.
A:
It was not a law office as far as I can find out.
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Although, people have written it up.
He never had any law
students there.
He had a young man living with him, but he
was a surveyor.
But John Overton was a great believer in
the owner of real estate.
He bought a great deal around
him until he had a -- about 3,600 acres at his death.
then he bought land all over the state.
And
He, and Andrew
Jackson, and General James Winchester of up here near
[Gallatin] has that old place up there both the 5,000 acre
-- rice grant for Memphis now stands.
1795.
Just what they used for money, I don’t know.
they did.
there.
That was bought in
But
And some of Overton still own an interest down
But John Overton lived a bachelor, very much
interested in politics.
Never had but won elected office,
and that was to the Supreme Court.
He was elected by the
Tennessee legislature to be judge of the Supreme Court, and
resigned in 1816.
And he was -- he was very much
interested in national politics.
And he backed Andrew
Jackson and his race for Senator, to which Jackson was
elected in the early ‘20s.
And he loaned him the money to
go to -- to go to Washington to be sworned in, and Andrew
Jackson repaid him.
I found that out too.
Well, in 1820,
John Overton married a widow with five children.
And this
four room, log house wasn’t big enough to hold them.
Though, I never found out they were all there at one time.
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And he built the back wing, another four rooms -- two down,
and two up -- of brick.
And in 1887, his son built -- just
exactly as it had been done at Glen Levin -- a servants’
wing at the end.
Q:
Yes.
A:
In 1887.
Q:
I see.
A:
I remember it well.
Also the bathroom was the end of the
back porch.
Q:
Like Glen Levin.
A:
Like Glen Levin
(laughter)
(laughter)
lived until 1833.
And (pause)
John Overton
He died, leaving this wife, who had been
-- who was the daughter of James White, said to be always
called the founder of Knoxville.
Q:
Knoxville.
A:
I know one thing James White did when he brought his wife
and children over from Salisbury, North Carolina in a
covered wagon.
He let her stay in the covered wagon while
he built the first Presbyterian church.
at his front door.
time.
And he was buried
I walked over his tombstone many a
But that’s neither here nor there.
She was a very
strong-minded lady, and she lived until the beginning of
the Civil War.
children.
Judge Overton died, leaving three, small
Or rather the oldest son was 11, then there was
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one nine, and I believe one maybe about seven.
Mrs.
Overton maintained -- was left Traveler’s Rest and 1,200
acres for life, and in her death, to her son.
And she
changed his will, by the way, in the last 10 days of his
life.
I don’t know why, because he left it to out rightly
change it.
And that’s the way her son got it.
the lady of the house.
And she was
She was the dominant spirit.
She
was six feet tall, and said to have said either one of her
two husbands could walk under her outstretched arm, and I
think she wore the pants in both instances as far as how
short was concerned.
(laughter)
Q:
I see.
A:
One of Overton’s brothers came and managed a place out
there, and it became very lucrative.
peach orchard.
His -- he had a big,
And his -- the product was sold in the
liquid form to New Orleans.
And he shipped his company
with -Q:
And that is -- that is peach orchard hill?
A:
That’s peach orchard hill.
Q:
At the end of [Adder Lane] now, isn’t it on Franklin Road?
A:
Yes, that’s peach orchard hill.
the product.
And that’s the way he sold
I found that out too.
He also sold his
cotton from his different plantations, and he was a -really had the money touch.
And he died, leaving 1,200
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acres to his daughter, who married briefly, and went to
Memphis.
And the other daughter, Mrs. John M. Lee, another
1,200 acres.
You’re living on some of it now.
Q:
Yes.
A:
But that’s Overton land.
Q:
Yes, it is.
A:
He bought it.
I don’t know what that grant was, but that
was Overton land.
Q:
Well, now was her name spelled Lea?
A:
Her name was Elizabeth.
And she married John M. Lee, and
that is called Leland.
Q:
Yes.
A:
Well, (coughing) the son, John, the one who was 11 when his
father died married at 19 a member of a family which had
settled here, and also had land [hunger], Rachel [Hardy].
He had two children.
And by the time he was 21, he’d had
two children, and the wife had died in child birth to the
second child.
She was buried out in the front yard.
was Overton, by the way.
So
And then his oldest son, John,
went to Memphis and took up the family land down there.
That was the oldest John Overton.
Then in 1849, John
Overton married his next door neighbor, Harriett Virginia
Maxwell, and they had six children.
And Traveler’s Rest
remained unchanged until 1887 when they put in the first
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bathroom.
And it entertained everybody that you can ever
hear of.
I’ve never seen anything to equal the number of
people who stayed there, and visited to that.
Peggy
visited to that, or Jackson and his wife visited this, Sam
Houston visited that.
Some people say Sam Houston spent
his honeymoon there, but he didn’t cause he didn’t have a
honeymoon.
But it was a place that deserved the name of
Traveler’s Rest, and maintained that name worthily until it
was sold by the last descendent of Judge Overton to own it,
who was J.M. Dickinson, and a grandson -- a great grandson
of Joe Overton.
A grandson of John Overton who sold it in
1946 to the railroad.
Q:
Yeah.
A:
To the -- I don’t know whether the Atlantic Coastline or
L&M, but he sold it to them.
It was then given -- the
house was given with three acres to the national society of
colonial (inaudible) of America in Tennessee, and then by
then is maintained as a museum house.
show a way of life.
A museum house to
It is not as a memorial to Judge John
Overton, who was a man -- an outstanding man.
But it is
not being maintained for that reason, but to show a way of
life of the pioneers here.
Q:
Yes.
Which will -- no other way of recapturing it, really,
except in this.
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A:
Except through things like that.
Q:
Right.
A:
Of course, there are many stories connected with it.
It
stood on the edge of the battle of Nashville -- the
battlefield of Nashville.
It was occupied as headquarters
by General John B. Hood in that ill-fated battle that he
had no business fighting.
many shells.
And there -- well, we picked up
on the place.
Some of them explode, and [someone] exploded
The family, at that time, took refuge in the
cellar, which Judge Overton had maintained as a very nice
wine cellar.
He got his wine -- his French brandies that
he didn’t make himself, and his -- and he got his Madeira
was shipped in the pipe.
high living.
And he was a gentleman that liked
I don’t know whether that killed him or not.
He died in his 60s.
Q:
Well now is it also true that there was just to the side of
the house, a hundred yards or so a prehistoric Indian
graveyard?
A:
First the name of that place was known as Golgotha.
a burial ground for prehistoric Indians.
long ago.
It was
We found one not
We’ve dug them up often in my childhood, and in
the garden.
The graves that I saw were lined with flat
rocks, and flat rocks at the side, and flat rocks on top.
But this last grave that was found near the garden there.
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There’s a new garden, it’s not the original garden, the
body was standing up so I was told by somebody that saw it.
Somebody else told me it wasn’t so.
But the woman who saw
it happen saw it open, said that the body was buried
upright.
Q:
Well, there were -- this is probably true.
There were two
different types of prehistoric Indians living in this area.
And the ones who buried their dead in an upright position,
usually in -- with knees up to the chin.
A:
Yeah.
Q:
Were Indians who came before the Indians that use the flat
rocks and other (inaudible).
A:
Yes.
The Indians are more -- they’re less (overlapping
dialogue; inaudible).
Q:
There are two separate tribes separated by several hundred
years.
A:
Well, this last one was found in an upright position.
They
-- it was known as Golgotha before it was called Traveler’s
Rest.
Now the earliest reference to it is Traveler’s Rest
I found in a letter dated 1819.
But I do not know exactly
when it was named Traveler’s Rest.
Q:
And who do you think of all these people who visited was
the longest visitor?
A:
Well, this one man came to stay -- spend the night, and
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stayed 11 years.
And would have stayed longer, but he
died.
Q:
(laughter)
Who was he?
A:
I forgotten his name.
My mother told it to me, but he just
dropped in to spend the night.
You see, it was all a
highway, and people would stop there to spend the night
before they got to the town.
hospitable.
And everybody was very
They used to put the man out in what is called
the law office, which isn’t a law office.
And there the
Yankee guard stayed during the Civil War.
My grandfather
was (inaudible) with the Army, and there were no men on the
place, and so they got a guard to -- I suppose to prevent
depredation, so they didn’t entirely.
And one night,
General Forrest happened by and they had no place to put
him.
And they put him out in the office with the Yankee
guard.
And when the Yankee guard waked up the next morning
and found that his bed -- not his bed fellow, but the -his housemate had been General Forrest.
They say he nearly
died of the shock.
Q:
Why Mimi, you mean they put him in there, they stayed the
night --
A:
Q:
Well, they put him in there.
-- and Forrest left the next morning, and the guard didn’t
know it?
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A:
And Forrest left the next morning before the guard was up.
And the guard came back and not too long ago it was in my
memory, the guard came back to see them all.
He wanted to
see who was there, and he mentioned this fact.
Q:
Well, isn’t that amazing?
A:
And of course, everybody stopped there, and the story of
Traveler’s Rest is very plain in these letters to Judge
Overton.
They were preserved by one of his sons in law who
never knew him -- Judge John M. Lee.
Of course he didn’t
marry his daughter long after Overton had died.
Q:
Yeah.
A:
And then also his executor was his nephew, John Claybrook,
who came from Virginia.
And he was fond of things of that
kind, and he took all of the correspondence he could find
home with him.
And he never turned it over to the heirs,
and his daughters, the Claybrook sisters.
You know them
from (inaudible) of course, but they were two antiques
here, and they had those letters and wouldn’t let anybody
see them because I begged to see them several times, and
they wouldn’t let nobody see them.
But they did give some
to Judge John Dewitt as a law fee with--they ask for his
bill, did some work for them, and he said he didn’t charge
them anything.
Of course, but he’d love to have some of
those old letters.
So they gave him some.
And they are
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all now up in the archives.
Q:
Well, what happened to the balance of those letters?
A:
Well, the Claybrook sisters had to die of (inaudible).
And
their -- their executor very wisely turned them over to the
archives.
Q:
Oh did they?
So they finally did?
A:
And they’re at the archives, and I can read them, and I
have read them.
(break in tape)
Q:
Well, now Mimi, including Glen Levin, and Traveler’s Rest,
and Brightwood.
We have covered the main areas that we
were trying to touch on.
A:
The Franklin Park areas.
Q:
Franklin Park, right.
Now let’s hear about some of the
other homes, and people, and properties that you remember,
and the stories that go with them.
A:
Well, the story of (inaudible) Mead --
Q:
Yes.
A:
-- is very colorful.
come immediately.
That was -- the Harding’s didn’t
They came from the eastern part of
Virginia, and that Charles Harding, I believe, was the
first one.
And he got -- he -- I believe his home was just
about where [Zippards] bookstore is now.
Q:
(laughter)
My goodness.
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A:
On Church Street.
Q:
That’s the -- I understand.
A:
I think that’s about where he was.
And then his son,
William Harding, bought a grant from somebody else out on
the pike, which ran west, and was since called the Harding
Pike, as if the Harding’s had really discovered it, but
they didn’t.
And then (clears throat) they built first,
the first building there is still standing.
cabin.
It’s just a
And then in the ‘40s, the Harding’s became
prosperous -- I don’t know how -- and got very much
interested in horses.
And they built the present [Bell
Mead], which is a beautiful example of southern, domestic
architecture.
But not in any great way historic.
Because
while General Harding was an outstanding man, and while he
went to prison as a southern sympathizer, and he was -- oh,
I forgot to say that John Thompson and John Overton II went
were both in the penitentiary at the same time for being -from refusing to take the oath.
General Harding was in
prison in the north for quite a while.
inherited Bell Mead.
And his daughters
One of them married General Billy
Jackson, who was a Corps Commander under [Hood] in this
disastrous battle.
And the other married his brother, who
became a Senator from Tennessee, Harvey Jackson.
And the
other member was free in court, he was appointed by
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(inaudible).
And those two daughters divided the property,
which surrounded Bell Mead, and which was, I believe about
5,000 acres.
Q:
My goodness, that’s a lot of land.
A:
It was a lot of land.
in horses.
money.
And they became very much interested
Horses being one splendid way to get rid of
General Jackson married [Selene] -- no.
Married
Selene, who was named for her father’s first wife, although
she was the daughter of the second.
That happens
sometimes.
Q:
Yeah.
A:
And she was an invalid a good deal of her life, and they
had some children who grew up to think in terms of money,
big money, and to spend it.
And finally, Bell Mead was
sold under mortgage, it was foreclosed, and sold, and it’s
passed through many hands since.
And I believe a -- they
had some very good horses there.
And I believe the women
of the English Darby was formed there once.
I forgotten
his name, I think his name was Inquirer or Iroquois.
Q:
Iroquois.
Is that the basis for the name of the Iroquois
steeple chase?
A:
Yes.
It’s either that, there’s Inquiry Avenue and Iroquois
Avenue.
Bell.
Both named (clears throat) after horses at the
Someone then bought up the land, and opened it up as
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a residential section, and after -Q:
Well, now what is the status of the Bell Mead mansion now?
Who is --?
A:
Well, the status of the Bell Mead mansion is that the state
of Tennessee bought it from its last owner, who was married
to Caldwell, and they paid a ridiculous price for it, and
turned it over to the Association for the Preservation of
Tennessee Antiquities.
You know, [Medora] does that up in
(inaudible), and that spread over the state.
funny.
It’s rather
And (clears throat) they’ve had lots of fights
about it.
So that adds to the interest maybe.
And is
operated now as a -- I suppose a museum and a road house.
It can be rented for parties and things of that kind.
But
it’s well taken care of, and beautifully kept up by this
Association for the Preservation of Tennessee Antiquities.
Q:
I see.
A:
The other sister owned the other half of the property, and
she became the wife of Senator Jackson, and then Justice
Jackson, and her children didn’t squander what they had.
They built the ugliest house that ever was called [West
Mead].
And it’s owned by several different people, and
that property had been better cared for, but it is not a
shrine, and not a road house, not a museum as Bell Mead is.
Bell Mead is a beautiful example of southern, domestic
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architecture.
How people lived in the lush days.
Q:
I see.
A:
And it was built in the ‘40s.
Q:
Well, now where is the West Mead home?
A:
West Mead home is across the pike from Bell Mead home.
You
know the pike splits?
Q:
Yes.
A:
And it’s on the right hand split.
And it’s own (inaudible)
is Ronald [Walsh].
Q:
I see.
A:
And then the property around has been sold off for
residential purposes.
Q:
Yeah.
Right.
A:
And it is figured in one or two financial -- oh, what
should we call them?
Scandals and so forth.
property around Bell Mead.
As did the
If you wanted to go into all
little scandals, could make it -- it probably would make it
more interesting, but there’s no reason in preserving
those.
Q:
No, I think not.
(laughter)
A:
One of the sons in law of Bell Mead had something to do
with the things that were not exactly right, and he went
down -- he turned Catholic.
He went down to the Cathedral,
and did some praying, and shot himself.
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Q:
My goodness.
A:
Did you know about that?
Q:
No, ma’am.
A:
That’s Albert [Marks].
I had the gun -- Sam bought the gun
with which he shot himself.
(laughter)
And he was mixed
up with it, and he tried to turn it over to the Catholic
church, and the whole lot of things that were not
necessary, I suppose, to -- although all amount of record,
but they’re not necessary to be kept in any report.
Now
West Mead was owned by the descendents of Mrs. Mary
Jackson, and Judge Howard Lee Jackson.
And one of those
was Dr. [Buckler’s] wife, and their numerous -- Governor
[Hill McAllister’s] wife.
And there had been nothing
connected with that that wasn’t very worry.
Then this
(clears throat) other place, (inaudible) Melrose.
was owned and occupied by Governor Aaron B. Brown.
Melrose
I can’t
tell you much about Governor Aaron B. Brown except I think
he came from the southern part of the state, and was kind
to another Governor Brown.
And it passed through a good
many hands, but Aaron B. Brown married a widow that had
some children.
Saunders.
I remember one of them, is now (inaudible)
And he gave a big Fourth of July -- I believe it
was Fourth of July -- picnic party Governor Aaron B. Brown
did.
And one of his guests was the newly made ex-President
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James K. Poke.
And James K. Poke ate something that
disagreed with him and died.
(laughter)
So that’s the most I know.
Of course I know maybe about Melrose --
Q:
You mean at the party?
A:
No, immediately afterwards.
So he died on account of the
party at Melrose.
Q:
Oh, that’s surreal.
A:
He had bought his wife and he had bought the house in the
center of Nashville, which had been built by Felix
[Grundy], who was also a Senator from Tennessee, and also
was a member of one of the cabinets I reckon was
(inaudible).
And (clears throat)
Mrs. Poke was a
[Childress] from Murfreesboro, and they -- and she outlived
her husband many years, and resided at this old house that
would almost settle down, it was in terrible condition.
What was called Poke Place because when -- it was named
Poke Place afterwards because a present Poke was buried in
the yard.
And they moved him up to the Capitol -- he’s up
on the Capitol Hill now.
But he was buried in the corner,
right by that swimming pool is now.
Q:
I see.
A:
After Mrs. Poke’s death some years after, it passed through
one or two hands -- Judge J.M. Dickinson, a descendent of
Felix Grundy, bought the house but his wife refused to live
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in it.
And (laughter) so he sold it, and it was made -- it
was our (inaudible) department house, and it was also
called Poke Place.
And that was very historic.
I’m very
sorry they didn’t make it into the Governor’s mansion, but
they didn’t.
Q:
It’s the house sitting up there at -- right down here in
Melrose now.
A:
Yes.
It’s the big house on the hill?
It’s still sitting up at Melrose, and it’s been
changed a good deal many of times.
Q:
Well, who lives there?
A:
It’s passed through many hands.
and for good many years.
It was owned by a Mr. Fog,
And after his death, was sold,
and it has passed through many hands.
It was owned by a
man named Sinclair, who came from Kentucky.
And then it
was owned by the [Bransford’s], Mr. Will Bransford.
And
was inherited by his daughter, who is Mrs. Spence McGavin,
and she sold it to the cemetery.
husband’s house.
And she moved out to her
Now that was another family’s house.
It
was called Two Rivers Fall, and it was owned by -- built
and owned by the son of General Harding in his first
marriage with a McGavin.
here.
McGavins were early settlers
Not pioneers, but they came down pretty soon.
that’s a very remarkable house.
was built.
And
It’s still standing as it
And Mrs. Spence McGavin, the widow of the
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grandson -- the great grandson of the builder lives in it.
It’s out just off the Levin and Pike.
Q:
Yes.
Mimi, what about the property I hear known at
Hermitage stud, where you can still see the old race track
through the side of the road there?
A:
That was part of the John Overton estate.
My mother
inherited that, and in 1890 when things were nice and lush,
they started a stud farm there.
My father, John Thompson,
and old May Overton, my mother’s brother, started a stud
farm there and they paid $25,000 for a horse, which was a
bad investment.
And then the panic of 1893 caught them,
and they had to sell out.
Now that was on the battle of
Nashville, and there is -- you can still see the [best]
works there.
Q:
Yes.
Yes.
A:
And in leveling some of them to make the race track to
exercise the horses we found a sword, and the sword had a
name on it: Major so and so was written on it.
Something
like that, and my father advertised it in an old
publication, which has died like ago, called the
Confederate Veteran, and advertised the finding of it, and
the owner of it turned up.
Q:
Came and got his sword?
A:
Came and got his sword.
He came, said that as he saw --
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they knew they were going to be overrun and saw the Yankees
advancing.
Then he shoved it into the best works.
He
wasn’t going to give his sword up, and [Pa] to find it all
the years afterwards.
Q:
Isn’t that amazing?
And the man had survived and --
A:
The man had survived, and the sword had survived, and they
got together.
Q:
Well, that’s a marvelous story.
Well Mimi, let’s end up
this wonderful record of the stories of these old
properties by your story of the Maxwell House.
A:
Well, there is a story about the Maxwell House that I’ve
never been able to date.
The story is that John Overton --
it said it was Judge Overton, I’m sure it wasn’t -- that
John Overton II was passing by and saw an auction going on,
on the corner of what is now Church and 4th Avenue.
And he
thought a cow was being auctioned off, so he stuck his head
out of his buggy, and called out a bid on it just for a
joke.
He got home, he found later that he had bought the
corner of 4th and Church.
Then some years later in the
late ‘50s, there was a question of Nashville needing an up
to date hotel.
And so he undertook to build a hotel on
that piece of property.
It was in process of construction
in 1859, and was not completed until -- it wasn’t really
completed until 1861.
Just then, the country went into
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war, and pretty soon Nashville fell to the Yankees.
And
they took the hotel over as a barracks and as a prison, and
occupied it during the years that Nashville was an occupied
city from ’60 -- I reckon until about ’67.
In ’68, John
Overton had had to spend a good deal more money on it, and
John Overton was then badly nicked by this Civil War.
So
he sold -- he’d turned it into a stock company, and sold
stock in it, and finished the hotel, and it was opened the
first day of January 1869.
Q:
Your friend Stanley [Horn] says that at that time, it was
the biggest hotel in the world.
Now do you agree with
that?
A:
No, I don’t agree with that at all.
Stanley and I don’t
agree on several subjects.
Q:
(laughter)
Actually not.
A:
Wouldn’t he be surprised to hear me say this.
But at any
rate, it was open and became, not only a hotel for
transients, but it became (laughter) we would call it now
an apartment house.
after year.
A good many people lived there year
One man who was quite prominent in Nashville
financial circles, Gus Robinson, lived there for 40 years.
And Mr. John [Curtman’s] sister Mrs. [Farrow] lived there.
And it was a -- it was a home as well as a place for
transients.
Of course all sorts of famous people were
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there.
Mr. Grover Cleveland stayed there when he was
president, and I’m sure several other presidents in passing
through Nashville proudly hung their hats up there for a
while.
But it was very well know, and a very -- it was a
set up, the social set of the town.
given there.
The big balls were
I suppose there were some marriages there.
There was a marriage reception there 60 years ago, the 10th
of December.
I went there.
(laughter)
Q:
You -- it was your reception? (laughter)
A:
My reception.
And we felt very much at home there because
the Overton’s retained a good deal of stock.
did own a little of the stock.
In fact, I
And my mother used to take
us to town and park us there with a hostess or whatever she
was.
Q:
Yeah.
A:
And so it was really a Nashville place.
It was owed to --
we felt it was owed to the city of Nashville.
Q:
I have an old Photostat of a menu where it shows wild black
bear and --
A:
Yes.
Didn’t I give you that?
Q:
I don’t know where I got it.
Maybe you did.
And just a
fabulous menu of the sort of food served.
A:
OK.
It was known as the most remarkable food.
And of
course, Maxwell House got spoken of maybe for its coffee or
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something.
And Mr. [Cheek], Mr. Joey Cheek was just smart
enough to put it on the coffee.
And he is said the -- he’s
advertised it all over the world.
(break in tape)
Q:
This is tape one of Ms. Mary T. Orr’s recollections January
1st, 1963.
Thank you so much, Mimi for this wonderful
series of incidents and -END OF AUDIO FILE 2
Q:
All right, Mimi.
Now I’ve got this microphone sitting
right here where you can speak into it right now.
A:
Well now, you’ve got to ask questions.
Q:
I know.
I’m going to ask you a question.
We’re going to
start this evening, which is the 2nd, probably, isn’t it?
The election coming over the hill.
We’re going to talk
about the material things left at the Thompson’s house that
we can still pick up and look it.
We’ll start with the
family Bible: where it came from, and what you’ve done with
it.
And then we’ll go on to the family beds, the
furniture, paintings.
Where did we get that picture of
Thomas Thompson, that picture with the hair in the air?
Where did we -A:
I don’t know.
I’ve never seen it.
Where is it?
Q:
We got a picture of Thomas Thompson or is that the original
John?
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A:
Well, we got a picture of John but not of Thomas.
Q:
Not of Thomas.
A:
Well, John Thompson has a picture of John Thompson.
Q:
I guess that’s this.
A:
He has a picture of grandfather of my father, which was
I guess that is the original John then.
mine, according to my mother’s expressed desire will.
Did
you ever see my mother’s will?
Q:
No.
No.
A:
Oh, what did we do with it?
F:
I have it here.
A:
Well, you probably go look and see what she gave to
different members of the family.
Q:
Oh, I’d rather have you tell me.
F:
Rather have you tell it.
A:
Well, I know, but I don’t remember it all.
I just remember
pieces that I (break in tape) and pieces that your father
got.
And I think I stole the family Bible.
Q:
Well, you have the family Bible, don’t you?
A:
Right here.
Q:
All right.
And you have kept the record of the family in
it.
A:
Yes.
I’ve had some other people do some writing.
John
Thompson got all the (inaudible) and all the Dickinson’s.
Q:
Well now, what property do we have of the original family
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that we still can look at it.
A:
I can’t --
Q:
How about the furniture in Glen Levin, for example?
What
about that big old bed in there?
A:
My mother -- that big old bed was in the first house at
Glen Levin.
Q:
All right.
It was in the first house, the one that burned?
A:
It was in the one that burned, and on the top of it,
there’s a little scorch place it was rolled out of the
house after the house had caught on fire.
Q:
Now that’s a great story.
I didn’t know that.
A:
My mother mentioned that in an informal will that she
dictated to me the night -- a few nights before she died
cause the family did not entirely stand up to.
Q:
(laughter)
A:
But that of course runs in the family.
Lots -- we have no
corner on that kind of thing.
Q:
I’m sure that’s true.
A:
But mother mentioned she wanted that bed always to stay
there.
Q:
It’s still there?
A:
It’s still there.
two front rooms.
F:
She wanted those two, big mirrors in the
She wanted them always to stay there.
They were built for the house, were they not?
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A:
They were --
Q:
Those big, tall mirrors.
And they’re still there aren’t
they?
A:
Yeah.
They’re still there.
Q:
Well, now we’ve got a mirror, Mimi, that mother had if she
--
A:
Oh yeah.
Q:
When she moved out of the little house, she gave it to me.
Now where did that mirror come from?
A:
I think it came from a sale of the effects of a man named
Alexander Hamilton.
I don’t know whether his first name
was Alexander or not, but it came from the same little town
in Ireland where the Orrs came from.
F:
Mr. Andy Hamilton I think his name was.
A:
Well, at any rate, he came from --
Q:
You mean and then it -- and then it was in Glen Levin for a
while, wasn’t it?
A:
Well, I’m going to tell you where it came from.
Q:
All right.
A:
Mr. Hamilton evidently made a success.
All right.
Excuse me.
And when these Orrs
came here, poor and ragged no doubt, they looked up to Mr.
Hamilton as the big man.
Mr. Hamilton lived north of the
river, where the TB Hospital has been.
from time to time.
He also was married
I don’t know to whom, but he left quiet
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a number of illegitimate children.
Q:
He (inaudible)?
A:
And the time that -- he’s not any of our Hamilton kinfolk
however.
Q:
I see.
I’m glad you put that in.
A:
As time when he died, they had an auction sale.
This
[secretor] that you see here was brought by Mr. William Orr
and given to me.
Q:
Well, I declare, Mimi.
A:
Those two mirrors, the one in the front parlor and one in
the -- oh, the manner piece in the front parlor and in the
back parlor, it had traveled at -- been there for -- well,
bought at the sale of Mr. Hamilton.
Also those two, large
vases that sit in the front hall at Glen Levin, do you know
those?
Q:
Yes.
I’d always wondered about those.
A:
They all -- they always -- also came.
And that picture,
which I have, which is belongs to me according to my
mother’s wishes, and it has my name on it, on the
(inaudible).
sale.
It was also bought from Mr. Andy Hamilton’s
He was a man -- I don’t know he made his money, but
he was a man of rather cultural taste.
Q:
Well, that’s very interesting.
Well, I declare.
Well now,
tell me some more things that are in the house in Glen
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Levin, and that are still -- that go back to the -- as far
back as the family goes?
A:
I don’t know.
see.
I know that sofa is right there that you
It goes back to my grand --
Q:
It came -- it came from the house?
A:
It came from the house.
And also those chairs in my dining
room were inc -- were bought for Glen Levin when it was
built in 1857.
My grandmother also bought the set for the
pulpit of the first Presbyterian church, which had been
built in ’51.
And they’ve discarded them at the church,
and put them in a back room somewhere, and my husband saw
them over 50 years ago, and bought them.
Q:
Now what chairs are these, Mimi?
A:
Go and look at them now.
F:
Those dining room chairs.
Q:
You mean the church passed those things out?
A:
Threw them out and put them in a back closet.
F:
The ones with red leather on them.
(pause)
Q:
My goodness.
That’s -- I’ve been sitting in those chairs,
and I had no idea they came from the church.
A:
Well, they did.
They came from the church.
(coughing)
And during the Civil War, they were taken away from the
church, and hidden in the house of a southern -- of a
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Yankee sympathizer, I’ve forgotten the name.
And
afterwards, restored to the church, and used until somebody
cooked up that idea of the horrible dances now in the
pulpit.
I have ordered -- I’ve offered to give them back
this (inaudible).
Q:
(laughter)
They won’t put them back, huh?
A:
But I say whenever you get rid of that horrible bench, that
is just wrong, I’ll give you those three other chairs for
the three of them; one armchair and two side chairs.
The
armchair is Dr. [Vance’s] chair.
Q:
Well now, I remember Dr. Vance sitting on that horrible
bench as you call it.
A:
I know, but they discarded it in his day.
Q:
Did he?
A:
Then another thing, when Glen Levin the home was built.
My
grandmother bought three more chairs just like that, and
had them in the front hall.
And when Sam had bought the
ones that had been at the church, he went over and traded
another sofa for the three chairs.
got six.
And that’s the way I
And Sam liked it so well, that he hunted around
for the armchairs, until I had seven big armchairs.
I
traded two off to Sammy [Glasko], he received a little
different upholstery.
And at her death, her children gave
them back to me.
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Q:
Are these the ones with the yellow in there?
F:
Yeah, the yellow chairs.
A:
Yeah.
Q:
I see.
A:
They came back from Sammy’s.
Q:
Well, isn’t that amazing?
A:
And -- and they -- that’s four.
They came back from Ms. Sammy’s place?
Mrs. [Levis], who was the
wife of Dr. Levis, the head of the -- the place head of the
Vanderbilt Medical School that was started in -- which was
moved from [Vall].
Q:
Yeah, I remember Dr. Levis.
A:
Well, Dr. Levis’ wife was very crazy about the chairs, and
she begged me for one, and they got it over here at
(inaudible).
But (inaudible), she died the other day you
know.
Q:
Yes, I saw she did.
A:
Then I have given two to the church.
One of them for the
communion chair, and the other one -- these old arm chairs,
not the straight chairs.
And the other one for the little
chapel, which has been put into the [Sun] School building.
Q:
Yes, down underneath.
Right.
A:
They’re used now.
Q:
Well, that’s good.
A:
Well, they sent it there.
Right.
I hope they really appreciated this.
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Q:
And you gave them the information?
A:
Oh, yes.
I gave them the information, and I also told them
what they’d been valued at.
They’re valued at $125 a
piece, and they’re so insured.
Q:
(laughter) Well, that’s wonderful.
Now tell me some more
about the -A:
Q:
F:
About the Glen Levin furniture.
-- Glen Levine, yeah.
Well, I think the most interesting thing is that set of
[Belta] furniture, that double set from the (inaudible) at
[Aklin] Place.
remember?
You know, the -- at Belmont.
Do you
There was a sale at Belmont.
A:
After -- after Mrs. Aklin’s death.
F:
And your father, what did he buy?
A:
My father bought the Belta set that was there of the
drawing room.
Their only --
Q:
Which Belta is this?
A:
There are only 12 in the world, and they have solid backs
of rosewood, which has been carved.
They say carved it
underwater and -Q:
Now you see how important this is to get?
wonderful.
I think this is
Well now, I’m not sure I know what furniture
you’re talking about.
A:
Well, it --
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Q:
A:
In the drawing room?
-- it used to be in the drawing room at Belmont, which was
Mrs. Aklin’s home.
Q:
Yeah, but where is it now in Glen Levin?
A:
Well, I’m going to tell you.
Q:
All right.
A:
Not in Glen Levin.
It’s not in --
Excuse me.
When my father was leaving the house
that day of the sale, and he had bought the furniture.
My
grandmother Overton, whom you do not remember.
Q:
No.
A:
Was coming up front steps, and she said what’s been sold?
And father said I just bought (inaudible) the drawing room
furniture.
Oh she said, John, I’ve never had any good
furniture in Traveler’s Rest, let me have it as long as I
live.
And I’ll leave it to [Con].
Well, you don’t -- you
know your Aunt Liz and your Aunt Martha?
Q:
No.
A:
Nor your Uncle Jesse.
But they made up their minds that
they’d have some too.
So all mother got out of it was four
side chairs, one (inaudible) -- one arm chair, and the sofa
that’s up in Elizabeth (inaudible) at present.
Q:
Well, I declare.
F:
And in this will that mama dictated to you, your mother
dictated to you, shortly before her death she said (pause)
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tell Lizzy, let me see if I can find the place.
(pause)
That when I am gone, and after she has used the furniture
in her house, I hope she will leave it to my three
daughters.
She knows it was mine.
And that is the
furniture that aunt L -- the part of the Belta furniture
from Belmont that Aunt Lizzy got from her mother, your
grandmother.
And your mother said tell Lizzy to leave it
to my three daughters.
She did not, and the -- as I
recall, in the distribution of your mother’s things,
mother, she left you two of the small, Belta side chairs.
And Harriett -A:
I gave one to Harriett and one to --
F:
You gave one to Harriett and one to me, and Harriett said
she wanted them, and we shipped -- I shipped her mine.
A:
You did, and she had --
F:
So she got them.
A:
She has two.
F:
And she’s thinking of putting them in the museum at Seattle
because they’ve asked for them.
A:
Well, I have suggested that that’s what she do because
she’s got them in the cellar now.
F:
Yes, they’re in the basement. (laughter)
The sofa that
matches is at Elizabeth Cannon in her morning room.
Q:
I’ll have to do a look at it.
I don’t think I remember.
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F:
And --
A:
It’s beautiful.
Q:
Is it?
A:
Exquisite work.
frail looking.
Then there was those chairs were rather
And when Mr. William J. Brown took lunch at
-- or dinner -- over at Glen Levin, he sat down and
wouldn’t (inaudible) back and mother said get up from
there, Mr. Brown.
You must not break my chair.
Q:
She told him, did she?
A:
And he got up.
Q:
And he got up.
chairs?
Well now, where are the rest of these
In Nashville, in the Overton family (overlapping
dialogue; inaudible)?
A:
Well, Uncle Jesse swiped the two armchairs, Aunt Sadie had
them, and I think she gave them to her daughter who lived
in Pittsburgh.
And now she’s been married the second time,
and I suppose has distributed her furniture to her
children.
She has daughters only, and they’re all married.
I do not -Q:
Now were these other chairs long gone except for the two
that Harriett’s going to give to the museum?
A:
Yes, they’re the only ones left.
Q:
Well, isn’t that something?
Well, that’s wonderful.
right, tell me something else.
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All
A:
Well, the beautiful Rosewood set that your grandmother gave
your Uncle Overton, and which I don’t know whether it’s at
Glen Levin now, whether it’s over at Overton’s other house
was also bought at this Aklin sale.
set of Rosewood bedroom furniture.
It’s a very handsome
One of the handsomest -
Q:
This was quite a sale that they went to.
A:
Oh, it was a magnificent place.
You see, Mrs. Aklin was
the daughter of Obadiah [Hayes], one of the early settlers
of Nashville.
He owned the land -- part of the land where
Vanderbilt stands.
The back part of it was owned by
Willoughby Williams, and he also owned where St. Thomas is.
Q:
That’s right, Hayes St.
A:
Yes.
And they -- he had this daughter, and she married the
builder of the house where the [Wheems’s] live in Gallatin.
Fairview it’s called, I believe.
Q:
Yes.
Yes.
A:
And the place -- man she married was a slave trader and
very wealthy.
He died, and some friends caring over the
rich widow, put up a -- and this is gossip of course -- put
up a place for a man named Aklin who lived in New Orleans
to come up here and court the widow.
He did, and succeeded
in marrying her, and then they built Belmont.
Of course
it’s been added too many times now, but some of the
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original houses included in Belmont school.
and she married again.
Then he died,
And Dr. Weaver -- Dr. [Cheatum], a
Dr. Cheatum, but neither one of them lived very long.
And
she is buried at Mount (inaudible).
Q:
Well, that is a very good bit of history.
A:
And when -- and then they went through the house looking
for things, they found the mummified body of a baby in one
of the closets.
F:
We do not know who the baby was.
Well, go to back to some of the things mentioned in your
mother’s will as dictated to you.
Q:
My goodness.
F:
I think this is interesting: leave two, big mirrors in the
house.
They’re valued at $250 each.
A:
Well, the two big ones in the front room.
Q:
In the front room, right.
F:
Dining room set to house.
I think one of the most
interesting stories is that when your father’s mother left
her things or anyway the settlement came, he left -- told
your grandmother, Mrs. John Thompson, to divide the things
in the house between their sons: John and Joe.
took it quite literally, I have been told.
And she
And one half of
the dining room table is now at Elizabeth Cannon’s in the
living room, and the other half of the dining room table
went to Joe.
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A:
At Brightwood.
F:
At Brightwood.
Where it is now, I don’t know.
She also
gave six of the chairs to one and six to the other.
I’ve
been told that -Q:
F:
My goodness gracious.
-- she left -- there were two sets of draperies, I have
been told, for the parlors at Glen Levin.
And she gave the
winter ones to Glen Levin, and the summer ones to Joe at
Brightwood.
Q:
What could he do with them at Brightwood?
Did they bid on
that?
F:
I don’t know.
But you could cut them down.
A:
Well, they were there until recently when Brightwood was
torn down.
Q:
It lasted all that time?
F:
Well, heavens, the (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) lasted
all that time.
A:
They were used.
F:
They -- the (inaudible) carpets are mentioned in this will
somewhere, and said leave them in the parlor.
I remember
when there used to be wall to wall carpeting, and the mold
got in around the edges.
So all they did was cut it loose
from the edges, and take off the badly eaten pieces.
(laughter)
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Q:
(laughter)
And just leave it there?
F:
And just leave it there.
And those carpets have been there
heaven knows how many years.
A:
Oh well, I know how -- they were bought in 1887.
F:
And they’re still -- they’re not threadbare yet.
that’s 80 years of a rug.
And 1887,
That’s pretty good for domestic
American runs.
Q:
It sure is.
It sure is.
A:
Now --
Q:
What other -- what other furniture, Mimi?
How about any
other beds besides the one you told about?
A:
Well, my -- there was another set of furniture that was
there in the beginning.
It was in my bedroom, it was
Walter’s, but just about as ugly as anything can be, but it
was stylish at the time.
know.
And when that was bought, I don’t
But it was there long before I was born.
Q:
I see.
A:
And I do not know where it is now.
My grandmother took
very little of the furniture when she moved a time to live
with her granddaughter, Mrs. McNarry, and died there in
1901.
F:
Well, what was the history of the set of furniture that was
supposedly mine, mother?
A:
And -- (inaudible) said it was oak.
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F:
No, ma’am.
It was Rosewood, and it had four post to it,
quite high.
Q:
Now is this the -- this is the thing that you all had at
Vanderbilt Place?
F:
Yes.
And you --
A:
Oh, that was -- that was my grandmother Thompson, the
fourth wife of John Thompson, that was her wedding
furniture.
And it came to me, it was given to me, and I
gave it to you.
And you sold the bed, and we had the
wardrobe cut down, and part of the doors are right in my
packing room at present.
And made you two end tables, and
the back to a sofa, which is in your living room in Memphis
today.
F:
I know you’ve never quite forgiven me for --
Q:
You sold the bed, (inaudible)?
F:
For swapping the bed to Mr. Upman for a sofa and two end
tables.
But I had asked every cabinet maker I could find
in Nashville and in Memphis to see if they could cut the
post down, it was built for a room with 15 foot ceilings,
and I had never had a house like that.
Q:
This is the problem, there’s no question.
F:
And --
A:
It was built for the room, which is now the dining room at
Glen Levin (inaudible) bedroom.
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Q:
The present dining room there?
A:
The present dining room.
And it was from that bedroom that
they rolled out a table, and did their surgical work
necessary on the wounded soldiers who were brought in after
the battle of Nashville, and put into the front part of the
house.
And when it was suggested to my father he have the
blood stains erased, he would not.
And they’re right there
under the carpet now.
Q:
How about that?
F:
And the remains of that set of furniture, you have the
bureau in the front room here.
A:
Yes.
F:
The little time, the side table is there by the front door,
Joe, with the marble top.
Q:
Yes.
Isn’t that a good table?
A:
That’s part of it.
Q:
I see.
F:
And that’s the rest of the furniture.
The wardrobe is now
part of it -- of my end tables in my living room.
And as I
say, mother has never forgiven me yet for disposing of the
bed.
Q:
(laughter)
A:
Well, I don’t care.
It’s on Vanderbilt Place.
I don’t
care, it was yours, and you could dispose of it as you
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please.
I don’t care what my children do with what I give
them, except sell it.
I’m going to haunt them if they sell
anything when I die.
Now they can divide up my stuff
because nobody wants all of it.
You may get some if you
come out and ask for it.
Q:
What a job.
(laughter)
F:
Well, I think the -- what the story of those Italian vases
that are on your sideboard, mother.
A:
My father brought them home in his -- we called them a
portmanteau in those days in his release.
After this trip
to Europe as a young man, when he just finished college.
He brought them home, and they’ve been at Glen Levin
always.
F:
Except, you got them after your mother’s death, and they’re
on your sideboard now?
Q:
What in the world, Mimi, could we possibly do with all the
furniture in Glen Levin?
A:
Well, you couldn’t.
No one person could take care of it.
Q:
But Polly has pointed out, very accurately, that that
furniture was built, and used in a house with ceilings the
size of Glen Levin.
A:
Well, of course.
Q:
And wouldn’t the family have the same problem if we ever
(overlapping dialogue; inaudible)?
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A:
Exactly.
Exactly.
Q:
What in the world?
A:
And that’s --
Q:
Don’t you think we ought to make another -- another
Traveler’s Rest out of Glen Levin?
A:
No, I don’t think so.
I don’t --
Q:
What do you think we ought to do with Glen Levin?
A:
I think --
Q:
If Uncle Overton just spent all kinds of money on it, and
had a great time with it.
A:
Well, I’ll think if (inaudible) son Overton Jr., and from
him to his son, and on down the line if he can afford to
keep it.
Q:
In other words, it’s up to Overton to run that place.
A:
Yeah.
Q:
I’m getting you on the tape now.
So this is the side of
(inaudible).
A:
Well, I guess as long as she -- when Con -- my sister, Mrs.
Harris, and her bad health was getting ready to go and live
with her daughter, who has married a professor in the
University of Georgia.
She offered the place as a gift
when she left to Billy Cannon, and he declined it.
She
also considered offering it to Christ Church for a Bishop’s
residence, and her daughter said to her at the time,
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mother, what on earth have you got against the Bishop of
Tennessee?
Q:
(laughter)
A:
So she then offered it to Overton Jr.
She told me she
would have offered it to my son John, but he had died
before she did.
And that’s the way Overton Jr. Got it --
the house and five acres.
Now what the terms of his
transfer to his father are, I do not know.
But --
Q:
Well, Uncle O has done a great job.
A:
He’s done a great job.
Q:
Keeping that place up, and he’s had a good time doing it.
A:
Well, he certainly had.
One of the few retired men who’s
enjoyed his retirement.
Q:
He really has done a fine job.
F:
Shall I read some of this about grandmother’s will?
A:
Yes.
F:
[Black silver] all to little Harriett, that’s my sister
Harriett.
A:
And she had it.
F:
Silver set and big waiter John’s, and John Thompson Jr. Had
it.
Small waiter Mary’s.
A:
And I have it.
F:
I don’t know where that is.
A:
I know where it --
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Q:
What’s a small waiter?
What does this mean?
F:
A small, silver tray of some kind.
Q:
A tray, I see.
A:
And it’s out at --
F:
Divide --
A:
It’s out at John Thompson’s house right now, Con’s house
because Margaret took it and said she thought I would want
John to have it.
And I --
F:
And then you did.
A:
And I didn’t care a thing about it.
I had plenty of them,
and I didn’t consider it worth the fight.
F:
Divide the silver spoons in the work table among the
children.
Joe is to have the big candlesticks in the
dining room.
A:
That’s your father.
Q:
That’s right.
F:
The old clock and library table.
set in leather.
One half of the Rosewood
The carved Rosewood sofa for Elizabeth,
two chairs with solid backs for Mary.
Those are the Belta
furniture we’ve talked about that came from Belmont.
Q:
I see.
I see.
F:
From Belmont.
I see.
A chair and an odd chair for Con.
Grandmother Overton’s portrait for Con.
That’s one that is
now at Traveler’s Rest, I think, in which the lady badly
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needed to have on a brassier.
(laughter)
A:
That is not at Traveler’s --
Q:
Are they really?
A:
That is not at Traveler’s Rest.
This one in Traveler’s
rest now is a copy of the one that Con has in the house.
F:
Oh, is it?
Q:
What -- where is this one?
F:
Con has it at her house.
Q:
Does she, in Georgia?
F:
No.
No.
A:
No.
No.
F:
Con (inaudible).
A:
Con (inaudible).
Q:
Oh, oh does she?
F:
Overton to have the baby portrait.
A:
That’s mama.
F:
Which she does have of grandmother -- my grandmother
No.
I see.
Thompson as a baby with one shoe on and the other being
chewed on, I think.
Q:
I’ve seen that, yes.
F:
The silver pitcher for Con.
The China fish set to Joe.
One Dresden cake dish to Mary, and one to Con.
At
Christmas, the dark fruitcake came in the red, Dresden cake
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dish, and the white fruitcake came in the blue Dresden.
They are (inaudible), really cake dish, and mother has the
blue on in here, and Con Harris -- Con Harris West, I think
has the red one.
Q:
Think of the -- think of going to the detail of trying to
write all this down, Polly.
F:
What a job.
One half of the square plate and the large dish to little
Harriett.
I don’t know what the square plates was.
other half and the cups to Elizabeth.
The
The large, turkey
dish to Mary.
A:
That’s at Traveler’s Rest.
F:
Now, that’s at Traveler’s Rest.
That was an enormous China
turkey dish, with a blue border on it about three inches
wide.
And through the years, and the turkeys, the dish --
the blue has kind of washed off.
Q:
I bet they’re proud to have that, though.
F:
But they have --
A:
Well --
F:
That came from Traveler’s Rest in the beginning, did it?
A:
It -- that came to Traveler’s Rest.
It was bought -- we
have seen the order for it to be bought by Judge Overton’s
representative, or (inaudible) I believe they called him.
And he lived in New Orleans, and disposed of the Overton’s
products from up here.
They were shipped out in the river
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in -Q:
You’re talking about the liquid apple juicer?
F:
The peach brandy?
Q:
Peach -- peach brandy?
A:
Yeah.
Q:
Yeah.
A:
And so when Traveler’s Rest was given to the Colonial
(laughter)
(laughter)
[Dames], I presented that to Traveler’s Rest because it
come from there before 1830.
Q:
Think of that.
F:
And there was another piece of that China set that you had.
It is a perfectly, lovely --
A:
Compote.
F:
-- compote of the same China with the same, blue border
helped up by a cherub, a very naked baby, what they call a
cherub.
Q:
(laughter)
That’s a good name.
F:
And Elizabeth Cannon has loved it throughout so many years,
and borrowed it for so many parties that you finally gave
it to Elizabeth.
A:
Yeah.
F:
And told her to keep it.
And I told her I loved it dearly.
But I hope when she died, she’d give it back to me.
(laughter)
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F:
I don’t know whether she will or not.
A:
She’s trying to make me take it back and give it to
Traveler’s Rest.
But I’ve given Traveler’s Rest enough.
I’ve given it the (inaudible) bed.
Now there was a
(inaudible) bed that belonged to Glen Levin.
It was built
at the furniture factory attached to the penitentiary, and
it was built for father.
Rest.
It’s there now.
And I’ve given it to Traveler’s
There was also the baby cradle,
which was built for the Overton children.
My -- probably
my grandfather’s oldest son, or maybe (inaudible).
And it
came to mother because she had the most children, and
mother gave it to me because I had the most children.
And
I gave it to Polly, and she gave it back to Traveler’s
Rest.
Q:
Well, that’s a good -- that’s a good route, and a good way
for it to end up.
A:
That’s where it is now.
So I think we’ve done enough for
Traveler’s Rest.
Q:
I’d say you’ve done the most.
A:
Oh no.
Q:
I gave them a piece of a cannonball that I found in the
Many people have given --
front yard of [Roberts] Academy during a baseball game when
I was playing third base.
A:
You did? (laughter)
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Q:
And it got stood up in the dirt, and there it was, Polly.
Isn’t that amazing?
F:
A cannonball?
Q:
Just a portion of a -- it was one of these elongated
shells, and it was -- you know, when I picked it up, and
took it in after school.
And it was there all this time,
and I gave it to them when they were asking for various
things that had come from the general area of the
battlefield around Traveler’s Rest.
A:
Now that battlefield was near the -- was part of that tract
of land.
Q:
Yes.
Right.
A:
It was on that tract of land.
Q:
Right.
A:
(inaudible) battlefield was.
Right.
That’s where father found the
sword, which had been put in -- had been hidden in the best
works.
And he finally found the man whose sword it was by
advertisement.
And he came and got the sword, and said
that when he saw the Yankees advancing, he knew he was
going to be taken prisoner.
He didn’t want them to get his
sword.
Q:
He just pushed it into the --
A:
So he pushed it in, and when --
Q:
It was all there.
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A:
-- when they leveled the best works there in order to make
the race track at -- at --
Q:
A:
Hermitage Stud.
-- Hermitage Stud.
Q:
Right.
A:
They found the sword.
Q:
Well, that’s a good story.
I’d heard that long ago.
I’d
forgotten it.
F:
Here’s one.
This is in an earlier will that your
grandmother had written in 1920, the one she dictated to
you was in 1923.
And --
A:
Just before her death.
F:
Just before her death.
But in this one, I think it’s
interesting, I give little Billy -- that’s Bill Cannon Jr.
-- father’s little chair he used at his first school.
I don’t know anything about that chair.
A:
And
Do you?
Yes, I know the chair very well, but I don’t know whether
Billy has it or it’s still at Glen Levin.
F:
Where was his first school?
A:
Mr. -- it was down where Dudley [Gale’s] house is.
F:
Are we about through on this, Jeff?
Q:
We’ve about used up this tape, Mimi.
Mimi, you’ve got 40
minutes worth of tape over the furniture, and the China,
and so on of Glen Levin.
And we haven’t done it all, have
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we?
A:
Not, not all, but we’re getting towards the end of it.
Now
that little chair was a very short chair at Paul -- and we
used it in the first bathroom built at Glen Levin.
(laughter)
Q:
That’s a very practical use.
We’ll have to ask Billy where
it is.
END OF AUDIO FILE 3
Q:
Now Mimi, what we’re going to talk about this afternoon.
This is the third of November.
A:
This is the third of November, yesterday was --
Q:
1965.
A:
Yesterday was little Ann’s birthday, the day before was
Harriett’s.
Q:
(laughter)
A:
So I know all of these dates very well.
Q:
I’d forgotten about that.
A:
Harriett’s 45.
Q:
I thought it would be very interesting for us to talk about
the old Franklin Road.
What it looked like, and who the
original families were who lived along it.
Now we’ve
talked about the Thompson Property starting it is -- always
start at Thompson Lane and come out the Pike?
A:
No.
I think we ought to start before that, because it was
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quite a large family.
Q:
All right.
A:
Who had holdings on both sides of the pike.
And very
early, when it began to be a pike.
Q:
You mean way in as far as the Bradford Place, or that --?
A:
Oh, much further than that.
As far as the Reservoir Hill,
which was St. [Clarent] Hill, where the reservoir was built
later.
Q:
I see.
A:
And that was some land that belonged to some people named
[Alloway].
That was called the Alloway place.
And they
had inter-married with the Stevenson’s, and -- well, in
that way, somewhat connected with Maxwell’s, who had farms
later out.
It seems to me that the way I can understand
the people (clears throat) who owns farms in connection
with Franklin Pike was the fact that although they might
live in town, and have a townhouse, they had to have a farm
to provide them with food.
Because they were very
dependent on raising their own food.
Q:
I see.
A:
So there was a very large family that came to Nashua named
Woods.
And they bought a large tract of land, through
which the Franklin Pike now goes.
fronted west, was called Eastwood.
One of the houses, which
And the house who
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fronted east was called Westwood, which is a rather queer
arrangement.
But it didn’t really have anything to do with
the points of the compass.
A West married a Woods, and
that’s the reason they called it Westwood.
Q:
Well now, where was this?
Was this along there?
A:
Where Aunt Lizzy’d lived.
Where Mr. Martin, the
undertaker, has just died a few days ago.
Q:
Yes.
Yes.
Right.
A:
That’s a really old house, and was built, I guess, fairly
near the turn of the century.
Q:
I see.
A:
And it still stands at -- I think it has been changed very
little.
It stands in its original condition.
hill, the old house is gone.
Q:
On the other
And [Fred] --
Now the one you’re talking about that Martin had is there
along by [Invanis], or it’s purely in town?
A:
No.
No.
It’s on this -- it’s on the (clears throat) it’s
on the east side of the road.
Invanis.
And it is further out than
Well, yes, it bordered -- it faces -- part of
this land faces Invanis land.
Q:
I see.
A:
It was once owned by George M. Dedrick, I think, who was
quite a well known figure in Nashville and early years, and
Dedrick Street’s been named for him.
In fact, he was
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buried on the back of that lot.
It’s a very interesting
house, architecturally, and I think would pay a visit.
It
was occupied by Woods’ for two -- for three -- no, two
generations, and then was bought by Mrs. [Hewell
Craighead], and occupied by her for -- until after 1900.
Then was sold to a school in my first (inaudible), which
was to establish a girls school there, but didn’t, and that
has passed into several other hands since then.
On the
opposite side of the street, another Woods owned it.
And
it was occupied by Woods’ for some years, until bought by
W.T. [Barrett’s] son, C.V. Barrett.
Mr. Barrett was a
rather prominent man just before the Civil War.
And he
remained a union men, and sent both his sons to eastern
colleges.
One of them to (inaudible), where he be -- and
he finally became an Admiral and died as an Admiral.
And
the other went to Yale, where he was Spoonman of Yale.
Since that has been (inaudible) by his descendents.
Q:
That’s up there behind Melrose isn’t it?
A:
No, it’s -- it’s opposite Melrose.
It’s behind -- it’s
just opposite Aunt Lizzy’s place.
Q:
I see.
A:
It was Craig head’s place.
As often they carried on a
correspondence -- a conversation across the pike because
Aunt Lizzy had a remarkably loud voice.
The next piece of
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property near that was Boss, and the Boss house still
stands.
Q:
Is that the big, white house over there?
A:
That’s the big, white house right behind [Crover’s].
Q:
Yes.
A:
And it has become very (laughter) I think, a very
profitable to the person who owns it, she doesn’t live
there.
And I think she keeps a trailer in the yard, but
she rents the place that Crover is in here for $1,200 a
month.
Q:
Yeah.
A:
So that’s not too bad, and also owns the land where the
H.G. Hill House [plate] stands there.
Q:
Yes.
A:
They were here before the Civil War.
I don’t know how much
before it, but I do know that I’ve seen correspondence
between him and my grandfather about things before the
Civil War.
Q:
What about the Bradford place up there by the (inaudible)?
A:
That was another Woods place.
Q:
Was it?
A:
Yes, that was all Woods through there.
They were very --
they had a dried goods store, I think, on the square.
(clears throat) Were rather prosperous, and they have
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remained -- they’ve represented in a good many families.
George Washington, who’s not the father of this country,
but another George Washington’s wife was a Woods.
They had
a townhouse on what is now called High Street, what used to
be called High Street is now called 6th Avenue.
was also a Woods house.
And that
There were a good many Woods, and
they were all of them seemed to be rather prosperous.
I
would really like to explain why the names of streets in
Nashville were what they were, and I don’t know when Spruce
Street stopped being a street and became a pike.
I suppose
it was at the county line, but I don’t know where that was.
Q:
Well, now, what was Front Street, and then Second Street,
and so on.
A:
Front Street, Market Street, College Street, Summer Street,
High Street, Vine Street, Spruce Street.
Q:
Now Spruce Street was 8th Avenue?
A:
Spruce Street is now -- oh, that was changed in my memory.
Q:
Yes.
A:
Old Avenue is all the way out.
Q:
Yes.
A:
But they were named after the streets in Philadelphia.
Q:
Were they really?
A:
Yes, and there’s also was a [Walden] Street a little bit
further up.
And Spruce Street was -- is a street now in
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Philadelphia.
streets.
Q:
And it was named after the Philadelphia
Then the --
Well now, why would Nashville name its streets after
Philadelphia?
A:
It got a -- it had an architect, or landscape architect,
who wasn’t -- who was employed to come here, and layout
streets.
Q:
I see.
A:
And name them.
And they began to be named after families a
little bit further out, and then they were numbered.
Q:
Well, now today is -- you got us out to Franklin Road, now
out to where the Brown’s creek used to come across, and
there was no -- you had to (inaudible) the creek.
A:
(inaudible) the creek, that is beyond my memory.
It had
bridges when I could remember.
Q:
I see.
A:
Then up the hill, to the Thompson property --
Q:
Thompson Lane.
A:
-- on the east side of the pike.
And on the west side of
the pike, there was a good deal of property owned by the
McNarry family, which also had townhouses.
And this
property immediately opposite the Thompson property was
McNarry.
Q:
Right here.
Well, that’s where the cousin Walter (inaudible) gets his
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middle name, is it?
A:
Well, certainly.
He was from McNarry, his mother was a
McNarry.
Q:
I see.
A:
Her grand -- his grandmother was from (inaudible).
Q:
I see.
A:
The McNarrys came here early soon after Tennessee was
erected into statehood.
Judge McNarry was the first judge,
and Andrew Jackson was his clerk.
Q:
I see.
A:
And they came before the turn of the century.
McNarrys have been here forever.
So the
They had town property
too, but they had a farm out here, which extended from the
Franklin Pike to the (inaudible) White pike.
I bought a
piece of it myself, you know, of (overlapping dialogue;
inaudible).
Q:
Over there on [Caldwell] Lane, yes.
A:
On Caldwell Lane.
This piece immediately opposite of Glen
Levin was also a McNarry land.
On the east side of the
pike, it was Thompson.
Q:
Out to [Elysian] fields?
A:
Well, let me see.
Fields.
How far out?
It went for it -- it went to Elysian
Thompson.
It wasn’t for Elysian Fields was owned by another
Who I don’t know whether she bought it from
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Thomas, or whether she also -- she and her brother, had a
grant.
it.
Her name was -- oh, don’t tell me, I’d forgotten
Cousin somebody, I don’t remember it directly.
And
she was buried there on Elysian Fields, and it was not
removed until some years -- a good many years later.
tell you what the name was presently.
I’ll
At any rate, the
Thompson land extended south on the east side of the pike,
and then took up something on what is now the west side of
the pike.
But I do not know that the pike was cut through
at that time.
Q:
I see.
A:
It seems to me it was cut through later, after the house
was built above the spring.
Q:
Yes.
A:
The first house -- well, not the first house, but the first
house of any importance was built above the spring.
Q:
Yes.
A:
The first house where Thomas Thompson lived with his wife,
and where John Thompson -- our grandfather -- was born was
on a spring over here on what is -- what was a -- what was
(inaudible), Uncle Joe’s place.
Q:
Yes.
Yes.
A:
That was the first one.
Then they built a house above the
spring, which was a log house, and remained until after he
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was married in 1851 to Mary Hamilton House, a widow.
And
then he built another house for her in the same enclosure,
or rather the same neighborhood.
And the night before they
were to move, both the log house and the new house, which
had many modern features and he disliked for that reason,
were burned.
Q:
Both burned down?
A:
Both burned.
And he moved into what I remember as the wash
house, and lived there while he built Glen Levin as it
stands in 1857.
Q:
That’s amazing.
Well, now how far out did the McNarry
property go?
A:
I don’t know any further out, and it (inaudible) what we
call across the pike.
You never know what they call
anything but across the pike.
Q:
Yeah.
I see.
A:
And --
Q:
Well now, when did the [Higgins] come and founded
(inaudible)?
A:
Oh, the Higgins bought from us.
Q:
They did?
A:
You see, father -- the -- we had the -- we had bought the
McNarry property.
That was not in the grant.
The grant
slanted across the front of the Higgin place, and some of
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that was grant.
Q:
Not (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).
A:
Curtis Woods was not grant, that belonged to a man named
Curtis, and was bought.
Q:
The Thompsons bought that land?
A:
The Thompsons bought that land.
Q:
I see.
A:
Then the land behind that was Woodall.
Father bought that land.
Now whether that
was a grant, or whether it was bought from somebody else, I
don’t know.
But that was bought in a very peculiar way,
and added to the Thompson estate -- to the Overton estate
really.
Because -- you don’t want to hear all these old
stories, do you?
Q:
Well, you can tell me this one.
A:
My grandmother Overton was a lady of her own mind, and had
notions.
And she was very much impressed by Mrs. [Vanley
Curtman], who had married Vanley Curtman, whose people
owned down here Douglas Avenue.
Q:
Yes.
A:
And she wanted a place further in the country, and
grandmother wanted her out there.
And made grandfather set
her (inaudible) hill, which was mother’s.
He had set that
aside for my mother.
Q:
I see.
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A:
And when he sold it to Kate Curtman, then he bought Woodall
land, or thought he bought it, to give mother instead.
You
know, back over there.
Q:
Yeah.
A:
And the man who was clerk and master at that time was
crooked.
And the money never got to the -- through the
court, and so -Q:
It never got to the Woodall’s?
A:
Maybe -- no, it never got to the Woodall’s.
The Woodall’s
were very -- when they sold it, they got some money, but
they didn’t get the amount of money.
And so when father
went to take possession of it for mother, he had to buy it
over again.
Q:
My goodness.
So he bought that twice.
A:
So it was -- so grandfather didn’t give it to her at all.
But that was where your Uncle Overton lived in over that
way.
Q:
I see.
A:
The little Woodall place, the one that was right next to
Curtis Wood, father bought.
Q:
I see.
A:
And I don’t know who Curtis was.
Curtis Woods.
He was always called
So evidently somebody named Curtis lived
there.
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Q:
Well, now we’ve got no one really have to talk to -- at the
pike now except --
A:
Q:
A:
And Thompsons --- the McNarrys, and the Thompsons, and the Overton’s.
Yes, and the Overton’s came and bought land.
had any land.
They never
The Maxwell’s had land, and they owned where
Traveler’s Rest is, and across what was finally the pike.
Which wasn’t the pike at that time, there was no pike at
all.
It was just woodland.
Q:
Yes.
A:
And one of the Maxwell’s was drowned in coming from east
Tennessee to take up his grant.
His name was Charles
Maxwell, he was drowned on the [Candy Fox] river, leaving
minor children.
And John Overton, a rising, young man in
Nashville -- I don’t know how he rose so quickly -- bought
the land from those minor children in 1795, which was 11 -which was 15 years after the Thompsons had taken up that
grant.
Q:
I see.
A:
The Thompsons took up that grant in 1780.
Q:
Well now, what other part of -- properties were held at the
pike toward Brentwood, beyond Traveler’s Rest?
A:
I don’t know if any others were held, except -I don’t think the Perkins had a grant.
(pause)
I think they bought
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it.
The Perkins, they owned a great deal of property out
there.
They may not have had a grant, but they bought it,
and that property extended back to the south of the Overton
-- of the Maxwell property, and that wasn’t Overton, that
was Maxwell.
The Overton’s just bought.
Q:
I see.
A:
But the Maxwell’s got a grant because they served in the
Revolutionary Army.
Q:
I see.
A:
Old Jesse and Charles, both fought at King’s Mountain.
Q:
I see.
A:
And so that’s with them.
Q:
That gets us clear out of Brentwood then doesn’t it?
A:
That gets us beyond Brentwood.
Q:
I see.
After that, I don’t know.
Well now, then how did these other people, as they
came along, how did they get the land?
Who bought it?
A:
They bought it.
Q:
The Caldwell’s bought the land?
A:
Oh Caldwell’s, they were -- they’re newcomers.
Q:
They are?
A:
Yes, the Caldwell -- Caldwell’s bought the land from some
people named Norwell.
But the Norwell bought it from the -
Q:
McNarrys?
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A:
-- from the McNarrys.
And then the Caldwell’s bought it
from the Norwell’s, and it was a three-story -- it was a
three-room, brick house when Mr. James E. Caldwell bought
it.
Q:
I see.
A:
And he added to it, and put a roof to it, and put another
story to it.
And the Norwell’s oldest (inaudible), though
they kept a house in town, and it wasn’t until very
recently that the last Norwell sold out.
Q:
What about the Higgins and the [Tawrys], and all of them?
A:
Well, the Higgins came and then bought some from father.
Q:
I see.
A:
And bought that place up there.
Q:
Was it?
A:
Yes.
That was set aside for me.
That was where I was going to buy -- that was where I
was going to build my house.
But you see, it was all in
trust, and it meant a -- a matter of court action before I
could get the right to build it.
So that’s when we bought
on Caldwell Lane.
Q:
I see.
A:
In 1906, we built that house and moved into it.
Q:
What about -- what about any other families out there that
I haven’t mentioned?
A:
Well, they’re all latecomers.
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Q:
They’re not the older families, yeah.
There are no really
any old families out there.
A:
No.
There’s one, old family.
Some people were buried in
it, and I can’t remember the name.
That lady that owned
the land where Cunningham Place is now, where Elysian Field
was (inaudible) Lexy [Coots], and she would -- the original
Thompsons have a daughter named [Leticia].
Q:
I see.
A:
And she evidently was the descendent from that Leticia, and
they called her cousin Lexy Coots.
Q:
It’s a fancy name.
A:
Well, not a fancy name, but she was an old maid, and she
was buried up there at Elysian Field.
very long since she was removed.
And it hasn’t been
Somewhere, I don’t know
where.
Q:
Well no, Mimi, what about the -- what about the land
following the Civil War?
Was there a lot of it changing
ownership then?
A:
I don’t know that it did too much.
See, the Overton’s and
Thompsons didn’t change, and the Maxwell’s kept theirs
until they finally died out and were married out.
The
Maxwell land ran far to the south of where the Traveler’s
Rest is.
And took in, I believe, went almost up to the top
of Patterson’s Knob.
On that Patterson’s Knob is a
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graveyard, over which the first Jesse Maxwell is buried.
Q:
I don’t know where Patterson’s Knob is.
A:
Oh, when you stand on the -- on the porch, the upstairs
porch at Traveler’s Rest and looked up there, it is the
most prominent, outstanding --
Q:
Oh, it’s the southern end of Peach Orchard Hill?
A:
Oh no.
Q:
No?
A:
It’s way on the other side of Peach Orchard Hill, looking
No.
south from the -Q:
Oh, looking south.
A:
Looking south from the --
Q:
From the porch.
A:
I see.
-- from the upstairs porch.
There’s one of the knobs --
we called them knobs in those days.
Q:
Yeah.
A:
It stands out, and near the top of that was the church.
And Jesse Maxwell owned land up to that.
afterwards?
I don’t know.
What became of it
I suppose soldiers, or maybe
one of his -- no, it wasn’t his daughter’s [call], he
didn’t have but three.
And there’s one of them, and aunt
[Annie Craven], was the other one, and grandma Overton was
the other.
Q:
Didn’t have any sons.
What about -- what about the Ms. Betty Baxter’s house out
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there?
A:
They were Perkins’s.
Q:
She was a Perkins?
A:
She was a Perkin.
Q:
In that old house out there?
A:
Well, yes, in that old house.
estatement.
That was part of the
They had a great deal of land.
[Granbury] lives was Perkins.
And where Jim
Of course, James made a son
of Mrs. Overton by her first marriage, married a Perkins,
and her father built that house for them.
And where Jim
Granbury lives in there.
Q:
I see.
A:
And James Maven’s half-brother to grandfather Overton.
Q:
Yes, I see.
I understand.
That was the widow Mae that
came from Knoxville?
A:
That was the widow Mae that came from Nashville.
Q:
Was she from Nashville?
A:
No, she as from Knoxville, and she married in Nashville,
And she married --
and she lived here quite a length of time.
Q:
I see.
I see.
A:
And then her husband died, and she went back to Knoxville
to her father.
Well, in less than a year, she married John
Overton.
Q:
I see.
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A:
And came back here.
Q:
And it was her son who --
A:
It was her son, James, her third son who married Eliza
Perkins.
Q:
And they built the land -- the house on Perkins land?
A:
Is it?
How -- I think the Perkins’s built the house
because the Maes didn’t have any money.
Q:
I see.
A:
And so -- not much, because he lost the (inaudible) to his
sister -- I read his letter -- wrote his sister saying we
have no money left enough to educate James.
We’re going to
educate two older boys, Anthony and Jackson as lawyers, and
he did.
And Anthony, as the widow Mae’s oldest son, went
to Little Rock and set up a law office there and died
there.
And we don’t know exactly what became of Jackson
Mae through much of his life.
He was the one for whom
Uncle Mae was named, his name was Jackson Mae.
Q:
I see.
A:
And he lived with his brother James, he never married.
But
he had money enough for his education, but there wasn’t
enough money for James.
And then there were two daughters.
Q:
And James Mae had a daughter, Betty.
A:
James Mae --
Q:
And she married a [Baxter]?
Betty, and she was --
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A:
Oh no.
No.
No.
Q:
No?
A:
Well, I’ll tell you how we get to Baxter’s two ways.
How we get to the [Baxter’s] on the highway?
James
Mae had a daughter named Ann, who married first a Ewing,
and he was killed at the Battle of Murfreesboro.
after that, she married Major [Harteman].
And then
She had two
children: one by the Ewing, and one by the Harteman.
Cousin Henry Hewing, and Dee Harteman.
Q:
And she, cousin Henry, was named for her father?
A:
For her father, her name was Caroline.
Q:
And she --
A:
And they changed the name to Henry.
Q:
And she was born the day he was killed at the Battle of
Murfreesboro.
A:
Yes, the Battle of Murfreesboro.
Q:
And they named her Henry anyway.
A:
And they named her Henry.
And Dee, of course, was born
several years later.
Q:
Yes.
A:
When she married again.
Q:
I see.
A:
Then they had another daughter, who was named -- who
married her cousin, Samuel Perkins.
children, she was his second wife.
She never had any
His first wife had
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children, cousin Sue (inaudible), if you happen to remember
that name.
And cousin -- oh, what was the one [mammy]
lived with so long?
Cousin Sam Perkins Jr.
Q:
I see.
A:
See, mammy was born into that family.
Q:
Yeah.
A:
She happened to have been James’s daughter.
Q:
I see.
A:
And she was born into the family.
He gave her to his
daughter when she married Sam Perkins.
And she lived with
young cousin Sam until he couldn’t any longer pay her any
wages.
And so then she came to mother.
Q:
I see.
A:
And that’s the way we got mammy.
Q:
And then you took care of her the rest of her life?
A:
Well, I took care of her.
Q:
She sure did.
A:
And so that was that.
Q:
Well now, you never have gotten to Betty Baxter.
A:
Well, Betty Baxter was the daughter of a Perkins.
She lived with me 40 years.
She was
Betty Perkins, and her father’s name was -Q:
It wasn’t James Perkins?
A:
No.
No.
No.
Not James Perkins.
Her father’s name --
that was James White -- James Mae, you know, that we’ve
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been talking about.
Q:
Yeah.
A:
Her father was a Perkins.
I don’t remember his name
directly, it’s some Latin name.
And he had many children,
he had two daughters: one named Eliza, and one named Eliza
-- named Betty.
I suppose her name was Elizabeth, but
Eliza was the oldest, and she married Ed Baxter, and had
two daughters.
And she died, and then he married Betty,
because Betty’s husband got killed.
His brother Jones
Baxter got killed in a street fight for their father.
And
Ms. Betty always claimed that the second husband owed her a
living because he was responsible for getting her husband Q:
Into the fight.
A:
Into the fight.
So she stood over his coffin, so the story
runs, and said you did it.
Now you got to take care of me
and my children, and her children were Lucille, and Ewing,
and Nanny -- Nanny who married uncle Robert was the
daughter on the oldest daughter Eliza.
Q:
I see.
A:
Who married in first.
Q:
Yeah.
A:
So they were double first cousins.
Q:
Double first cousins.
Yeah.
I see.
Think of it.
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A:
She and Mrs. Hutcheson, Katie, and Perkins.
Perkins,
Baxter, (inaudible), or Richardson.
Q:
Well now, she continued to live in that house?
Why do we
call it Ms. Betty Baxter’s place?
A:
Well, the older Baxter’s lived there for a while, Betty
lived there too.
Q:
I see.
A:
And I have no doubt that Mr. Baxter paid the upkeep because
he was a very prosperous lawyer.
Q:
I see.
A:
What was the name of that Baxter man?
(pause)
I can’t remember it now.
I won’t recall him.
Well, at any rate, it
was Betty and Eliza.
Q:
I see.
A:
Eliza was the oldest, and she married Jones -- no, she
married Ed.
And Betty was the youngest, and she married
Jones, and Jones died and the husband died, and the other
two got married.
Q:
(laughter)
house?
Well now, what about -- what about Aunt Sadie’s
When was it built?
A:
Aunt -- Aunt who?
Q:
Aunt Sadie Overton.
A:
Oh, you mean Overton Hall?
Q:
No, I mean -- I mean out the pike here, behind Traveler’s
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Rest.
A:
Well, I’ll tell you there is it.
Aunt Sadie and Uncle
Jesse were married in 1891 -- wait a minute.
1891, and
lived in the house that finally became the governor’s
mansion, which has now been torn down because the memorial
was built there.
She was a Williams, her father made a
good deal of money, and built a very elaborate house.
mother died, and she -- the father lost his mother.
Her
So
Uncle Jesse set up a house in town, and took care of the
Williams’s.
year.
Then they went to Traveler’s Rest and lived a
In 1897, they built Overton Hall.
Q:
Yes.
A:
Now that was Maxwell land that came to the Overton’s
through the fact that my grandmother was Harriett Maxwell,
ands he gave it to her son, Jesse Maxwell Overton.
Q:
I see.
A:
And he built it in 1897.
Q:
Well now, what about -- what about Aunt Lizzy’s house there
over towards Franklin Road from when we (inaudible)?
A:
Well, that was built by Uncle Robert Overton, the youngest
of the Overton sons, and was completed I believe in 1900.
And he died very shortly afterwards.
He’d married a
Baxter, he married Eliza Baxter’s daughter, Manny.
Baxter’s first wife’s daughter, Manny.
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Mr. Ed
Q:
I see.
A:
And he built that house.
Q:
I see.
A:
And he died very shortly after his mother.
in ’98.
Must have died in ’98, and Aunt Lizzy bought the
house.
Q:
I think he died
So it was built by Robert.
Well, we’ve certainly gone up and down the Franklin Road.
Any houses we’ve overlooked?
A:
Well, no I don’t have --
Q:
How about the [Kirkman] house?
A:
Well, the Kirkman house was torn down by the [Cheeksman],
they rebuilt that.
But the Kirkman house, oh it must have
been built in the (pause)
Q:
It was torn down for the --
late ‘90s or the early 1900s.
Well now, isn’t this the location of the property though
where you told me the story of the red-headed lady who
married the Yankee soldier, and went off to France, and all
that story?
No.
What story is that?
A:
No.
She didn’t have anything to do with this.
Q:
Where’d I get her into this?
A:
Well, she was kin, but she never came out to pike.
was built as late as 1890.
-- almost at 1900.
This
Oh no, it was built as late as
And that one, she was Madam so and so.
She didn’t marry a Yankee soldier, you’re talking about
another Kirkman.
Florence Kirkman, the sister of [Van Lea]
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Kirkman married Captain James K.R. [Drewlad], who was
Captain of a Negro regiment here in Nashville, in the time
of the occupation.
And she married him, and built that big
house at the corner of [Denumbren] and Ninth.
Do you
remember it before it was tore down?
Q:
Yes.
Yeah.
A:
Well, they built that house.
She inherited more money than
the rest of the Kirkmans because of course, Van inherited
the same money but got rid of it cause she was a Van Lea,
her mother was a Van Lea.
And the Van Leas came down form
Pennsylvania, and found iron down in Montgomery County, and
there Madison had a good deal more money than the rest of
any of the Kirkmans had.
Q:
I see.
A:
And so Florence married Captain K.R. Drewlad, and she had a
good many children.
Her oldest son Van.
Let’s see, Van
Lea, and then there was named -- one named Hugh, and one
named Pierre, and a daughter named Florence who married a
Frenchman, and a son named Joe, who got killed in an
accident out here at Oak Hill.
who is still living.
And a son named Bernard,
That’s the only one of those
Drewlad’s who’s living who was (overlapping dialogue;
inaudible).
Q:
Well now, what about the lady now who married the
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Frenchman?
A:
I think that’s an amazing story.
Well no, that was Florence Drewlad, and she was the
prettiest thing you ever saw in your life.
And she married
one of the nicest men that ever lived; he was a French
Protestant, Count [Portelays].
saw the wedding.
I went to the wedding, I
Florence told all of her girlfriends she
was grateful that she -- when the time came to walk up to
the alter to be married, she was going to slip her hand in
Billy (inaudible) arm, and go up and marry him instead of
Count Portelays.
But she didn’t, she married -- I saw
Billy not a great many -- a year or so ago.
living, I think he’s died since then.
Count Porte lays.
He was still
And so she married
He was just a perfectly splendid man.
She ran off two or three nights after she was married with
a relative, Ann Wills.
And it was a June night, and the
windows were open, and the neighbors heard (laughter) Count
Porte lays expostulating and talking to his mother in law.
And she said, but Count, she is so young, but she is my
wife.
And all the neighborhood could hear about it.
But
she came back, and went to France with him, and had four
daughters.
She ran off with another man, and I hear she’s
still living in California, but I don’t -- I think that
must be a mistake.
And she ran off with another man and
had another child.
So her husband had to get a divorce
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from her, and he is married again.
And -- but she came
back to this country, and inherited some money from her
mother, and was a pretty -- was a dope fiend in pretty
badly shape, and he took care of her.
He had a (inaudible)
in New York.
Q:
He still took care of her?
A:
He still took care of her.
lived.
Q:
He was a gentleman, if one ever
That’s why he didn’t kill her.
(laughter)
Well, that’s an amazing story.
(overlapping dialogue; inaudible).
That’s
(break in tape)
Well
now, this has been the outline of the old Franklin Road,
and the original properties, and the families who lived
along it.
A:
Yeah.
Q:
Now the next time we go into this, we ought to actually
pick out the families as they came along and bought
property, and how they fitted into the community.
We ought
to tell the story of the Higgins, and we ought to tell the
story of the Tawrys, and some of the others that you may
think were more important than these as they came along.
A:
Well, I don’t know anything about the Tawrys.
Which one
you talking about?
Q:
Well, they were the ones who lived across from the Higgins.
A:
Yes, and one of them named Charlton Rogers that made Anita
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Tawry has been corresponding with me.
He’s a genealogist,
and I was trying to get him to do some work for Carolyn,
but we finally got the work done to put in the (inaudible).
END OF AUDIO FILE 4
A:
-- responsible for the sentence -- the German sentence for
the just respect to the (inaudible).
You know, they put it
there.
Q:
The -- the old (inaudible) are really good now, Mimi.
No
one stood -A:
No, but they’re very necessary if you’re going to study the
[language] at least know where it came from.
Q:
Yes.
A:
And of course it’s very much changed, but the Germans
always put their verb at the end of the -- they were -(inaudible) have gone.
They’d put have up in the front of
the sentence, and gone would be at the end of everything.
You don’t know what the full -Q:
What’s his degree going to be in?
A:
PhD in English.
Q:
All right, Mimi.
We’re going to try this.
We’ve had a
little trouble with the tape tonight, but we’re going to
try another portion of all this important information that
you know about.
And we’re going to begin tonight by a
discussion of the educational systems as they were in your
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day, and what you remember specifically about your being
taught by a governess, and then we’ll go onto your
experiences at Vanderbilt.
Now, when did you start the
school and where did you go?
A:
I went to what was called a Dame School, a private school.
At the time, it had a good many private schools run by -usually by women.
There was Mrs. [Gillespie’s] private
school in a house on Cedar Street, opposite the capital.
It belonged to some member of her family, and she had a
big, backyard which we used recreationally.
Q:
Well now, when was this, Mimi?
A:
This was just before your father was born.
when he was born in 1890.
I was there
I went there first in the fall
of 1888.
Q:
All right.
That’s fine.
A:
And I went through ’90.
Q:
I see.
A:
In 1888, I was nine years old.
Q:
I see.
A:
And I went there until I was 11 years old.
Q:
How many people would there be in a class?
A:
There were -- well (laughter) because --
Q:
Or was there a class?
A:
Well, I don’t think there was any real organization.
(laughter)
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Think those who could read were in one class, and those who
were having be taught how to read were in another class.
Q:
I see.
A:
But they were all very young, at least the ones I remember
most.
Now Dr. Richard [Date] was a little boy, and he was
made to sit with me because I knew my ABCs.
I could read
before I went there.
Q:
I see.
A:
So I taught Richard Date how to read.
several others about his age.
And there were
Then there were some much
older girls, several years older, and I think they were
reading poetry.
I never knew what else they studied.
They
were Mary and Jean [Rammage], there was Betsy Sinclair, and
much older people than I was.
Six -- five, or six, seven
years older.
Q:
I see.
A:
It was just a very nice place to go.
Then in 1890, in the
Autumn, Mrs. Gillespie moved her school to Belmont, which
had just been opened by two woman: Ms. Hood and Ms.
[Herron].
And went there for three months.
Mrs. Gillespie
was assigned the kitchen was her school room.
(laughter)
And we went to school in the kitchen of the Belmont Mansion
before it was changed -- before this (inaudible) was put
on, but only for three months.
Then there being nowhere
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else to go, and transportation being the prime -Q:
A:
Problem.
-- problem.
And I was the oldest of a increasing family
of brothers and sisters.
Q:
Yes.
A:
In fact, my younger sister was born in ’92.
And my
youngest brother was born in ’90, and I was in Mrs.
Gillespie’s in ’90.
Well, my grandmother, Mrs. Overton at
Traveler’s Rest had taken on taking care -- taken on her
four grandchildren, whose mother had just died.
Mrs. May Overton.
And she would (inaudible) to look around
how to send them to school.
that had closed.
That was
There was a school nearby, but
That was Robertson Academy that was
running at that time.
And she, influenced by I remember
the family who had done some work in Germany, who was very
much interested in the German’s anguish.
for a German governess.
time.
She looked around
They were a dime a dozen at that
And thinking back over it, and what I know of
history, I think it was really a political move on
Bismarck’s part was to get rid of the (laughter)
unproductive women in the nation and hire them out at
governesses throughout the world.
And you could get them
here in Tennessee without any effort -- particular effort,
and they were very cheap.
So she got a very charming lady
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named Mrs. Marta [Huber], who came over and lived at
Traveler’s Rest at perfect charge of the four children, and
opened a little school in what was called the office, it’s
still standing at Traveler’s Rest today.
five of us in there.
And there were
I was there until I was 15, and that
is until she went home to Germany.
Q:
So your instruction in this very important time was through
this governess?
A:
Through this governess that had nothing whatsoever to do
either with the English language, or with American history,
or anything else.
Q:
What did she teach?
It was pure German.
Just the speaking of the German
language or the --?
A:
The speaking of the German, the German history, the German
literature, and the way of teaching.
Q:
The grammar or all the -- the whole --?
A:
All the German grammar.
I knew more German grammar than
most of the professors at Vanderbilt, (laughter) because we
were made to learn it by heart.
And the great thing was to
learn by heart, commit to absolute memory, and today I can
even tell you instances in German history in German cause I
was made to commit them to memory.
Q:
Well, tell me one.
A:
(Speaking German).
The Germans who lived -- this race of
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German -- lived from the (inaudible) to the North Sea.
Q:
I see.
A:
And we were taught ancient history the same way.
Q:
I see.
A:
And we were taught to learn every -- to commit every -just acres of German poetry.
Q:
(laughter)
(Speaking German).
Well, she did a good job, didn’t she?
Well
now, what did you do after 15?
A:
Well, when I was -- when she went home and I was 15, then I
went to [Ward’s] for October, and I took -- I always had
bad tonsils, so I had a bad case of tonsillitis, and quit
school.
Q:
Well now, where was Ward’s, and how long had you been
there?
A:
Ward’s was on what is now Spruce -- what was Spruce street
is now 8th Avenue, and it was just one or two doors from
Church Street.
Q:
I see.
A:
Church Street and 8th.
Q:
About where the telephone building is there now?
A:
Yes, exactly.
Q:
I see.
A:
Where it was.
Q:
Yes.
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A:
And they had one, very large chapel as they call it, where
we sat.
And then it was a boarding school.
And there were
was a large, three-story house, very much like the one
still owned by the Savage heirs just down the street.
Q:
Yes.
Yes.
A:
No exer -- no place for exercise.
The girls were taken
walking -- were took -- made to walk.
Q:
How many girls were there?
A:
I expect there must have been -- oh, there must have been
20.
Q:
I see.
A:
Because the chapel was a very large room, and as I
remembered, it was pretty well-filled.
Q:
Had the school been going some time when you attended it?
When did it start?
A:
My mother was a graduate there in 1878, so it had been
going for a good many years.
Q:
I see.
A:
And it was the best in town.
There was another one called
[Price’s School], which stands where the Federal building
is alongside the Union Station.
Q:
I see.
A:
The Price’s School.
And then there was another one in east
Nashville called [Boskerbale].
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Q:
I see.
A:
And they were all for women.
There were a good many boys’
private schools, and my father had an idea that I had a
mind.
And so he wanted me to know something about
mathematics.
in German.
I knew that probably the multiplication table
And so he -- I had private lessons with Mr.
[A.B. Walton], who ran a boys’ school something like Ward’s
but it was much smaller.
And it was all on Broad Street,
near the corner of 12th.
Q:
I see.
A:
And so I had private lessons in mathematics from Mr.
Walton.
I think he had taught once at Annapolis, but he
was supposed to be very wonderful.
Q:
Well, were there not -- there were no public schools?
A:
Oh yes, there were public schools.
But see, I lived in the
country.
Q:
I see.
A:
And I couldn’t --
Q:
Public schools were all up town?
A:
Public schools were in town.
Q:
I see.
A:
I suppose they could have arranged it, but the question of
transportation was the problem, and it was solved -- in my
case, by the [dummy].
The dummy was a little --
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Q:
Street car.
A:
No, it was a little steam --
Q:
Steam engine.
A:
Steam engine, and ran across approximately through the
(inaudible) property.
crossing Caldwell lane.
The same way the buses run now
And I’ll be taking it at Caldwell
lane.
Q:
I see.
A:
I remember being there the morning your father was born.
Q:
How (inaudible)?
A:
In 1890.
Q:
Yes.
A:
Taking the -- I ran down through 12th Avenue, and Cane
Avenue, and got onto Broad Street at near the corner of
12th, where the big company is now.
Turned there, and went
down Broad to Front, and up Front to the -- to this square.
So the last year I was at Mrs. Gillespie’s.
Q:
You rode the dummy in?
A:
I rode that and walked from the square up to her place,
which was the corner of 5th and Cedar.
Q:
I see.
A:
5th and Charlotte.
Well, of course that was before,
because afterwards, when I was going to Vanderbilt, there
had been some more children in the family.
And the family
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set up a carriage, which was called the cab, and we had a
driver which drove us to town, and drove me to Broad St.
where I took the electric -- the electric car, and went to
Vanderbilt.
I spent one year, and went --
Q:
And you went to Vanderbilt.
How’d you get in, Mimi?
A:
After her --
Q:
How did you get in Vanderbilt?
A:
Well now, I told you about my requirements.
What were the requirements?
So
(overlapping dialogue; inaudible).
Q:
Yeah, but we didn’t have it on the tape before.
A:
No, we didn’t have it on the tape.
wasn’t anywhere else to go.
Well, I wanted -- there
I was too old to go back to
high school, and father wasn’t willing for me to go away
from home, so I just went out to Vanderbilt and spoke to
someone.
that was.
credits?
I can’t remember- been trying to remember who
But our (inaudible) was asked what are your
And I didn’t have any credits.
And they said
well, could you take an examination in one University
subject?
And I said yes, if you let me choose the subject.
So I chose German.
And Dr. Frederick W. [Moore] gave me
the examination, and I knew more than he did, which he
admitted, and passed of course.
And after I got in, I
could take anything that the professor would accept me.
Q:
Once you accepted on the one subject you chose, then you
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could come and do anything?
A:
I could come and do anything that what a professor would
accept it.
Q:
That was an interesting rule, wasn’t it?
A:
Wasn’t it nice?
Well, I stayed at Vanderbilt three years,
and spent the last year almost entirely on graduate work.
Q:
I see.
A:
And that was my very poor education, which (overlapping
dialogue; inaudible)
Q:
Now aren’t you oldest living co-ed, Mimi?
A:
No, I’m the next to the oldest living co-ed.
She said
she’s a month or two older than I am, and I -- and -Q:
You’re not going to --
A:
She remembered my class, but I don’t remember.
She doesn’t
remember me either.
Q:
(laughter)
I see.
A:
But I am next to the oldest, and treated with a great deal
of respect as if I deserve some respect for my education.
Q:
Well, you do.
You do.
A:
I have no education because I never had a lesson in the
English language.
From the time I was 11 until I was
through my 15th year.
Q:
Isn’t that amazing?
A:
I know nothing of English grammar.
I cannot write, and
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that’s the reason I don’t write.
Q:
(laughter)
Well now, let’s see.
We’ve been through what
your education was like, and it’s amazing what you’ve done
with the -A:
And most of my contemporaries went to Ward’s.
Q:
I see.
A:
Towards our prices.
Q:
I see.
I see.
What was the public school available up town if you
had gone to it?
A:
Well, (inaudible) would be the one.
Q:
I see.
A:
That’s one the corner of Broad, you know, and 8th.
Q:
Yeah.
A:
That would have been the one.
Right.
Right.
Right.
That was the central school.
Then there was another one very soon.
Q:
Well now, Robertson Academy you say was closed down after a
while.
A:
Robertson County it was closed, and then it was moved, its
locale was moved.
Q:
It used to be over there where they were comfortable
several years, didn’t it?
A:
It used to be where they --
Q:
Way back there at the end of (overlapping dialogue;
inaudible) Road.
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A:
-- near the [Nolinson] Pike.
Q:
Yes.
And then they --
A:
And right behind where Roger Caldwell built his big house.
Q:
Yes.
A:
Well, it was closed for a while.
Q:
I see.
A:
I think it’s the oldest.
Q:
Well now, was it a private school?
A:
No.
And then it --
Now it’s the oldest school isn’t it?
1806.
I have a very good --
It was -- it became a county school.
It was a private
school at first, but it became a county school.
Q:
I see.
A:
And as you know, my mother gave the land on which it stands
now.
Q:
Yes.
A:
And my two grandfathers left it an endowment, and there is
a small endowment now.
It’s been used up somewhat in the
building.
Q:
The building that you made (inaudible).
A:
But my father, born in ’52, and my mother born in ’58, both
went to Robertson Academy.
Q:
And then a good many others.
A:
Oh yes.
Q:
All but you.
A:
All but me.
Dad went didn’t he?
All the members of the family have gone at times.
But you see, I was a little ahead of -- it was
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closed when I started for school at that time.
Q:
I see.
When you started in 18 --
A:
And I don’t know that any of the male Overton’s ever went
to Robertson Academy.
Q:
I see.
Well now, was there a (inaudible) number of
families going to these private schools and having
governesses?
A:
Yes.
There were a good many private schools, and a good
many families sent their children.
And a good man, nearly
all in the country outside of town had governesses.
Q:
I see.
A:
I could just -- could remember governesses.
Not all of
them German, but the Dickinson children, for instance, had
a German governess (inaudible) for a while.
Q:
Well now, Ms. Deville [Waller] wanted to know was about the
transportation to town, and what the families did in those
days about shopping?
A:
Well, the fa -- the transportation to town for school, they
just set up another coachman, and another vehicle.
Q:
Another --?
A:
We had what was called --
Q:
A Surrey or something and you all?
A:
No, it wasn’t like a Surrey.
But an enclosed thing, and
there was a broad backseat where three of us sat, and a
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broad front seat where the driver and two more sat.
Q:
I see.
A:
And after a while, one of the boys was big enough to drive
it.
And we picked up people along the road and carried
them to school.
But I didn’t do that.
Mostly, I went --
it dropped me, and I went out on the -Q:
On the --
A:
On the transportat -- city transportation; electric.
Q:
I see, out to Vanderbilt?
A:
Out to Vanderbilt.
And then one year I stayed out there,
boarded out there.
Q:
Well now, what about the shopping uptown?
How often would
a person your age go to town, and how about grandmother?
How did she do her shopping up there?
A:
Well, when she did her shopping, then she had to take us,
and a number of us went up for shoes, and teeth, and things
of that kind.
She usually deposited us at Thompson and
Kelly’s, which was just really an institution.
It was on
5th Avenue, the place it occupied now, about some garment
shop I think.
It’s right next door to where the
(inaudible) is running on 5th Avenue that we would deposit
it there for some hours at times.
I, a little later, was
able to go with my mother or she deposited us at the
Maxwell house to a receptionist there named Nona.
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Q:
Nona?
A:
And --
Q:
And then she would go do her shopping while the children
waited?
A:
Well, she’d take the child off that had to have its teeth
fixed, and bring him back, and take the one that had to
have his shoes fitted.
Q:
I see.
A:
And it was really a job.
Q:
It was an early babysitting service?
A:
It was a babysitting service.
often.
And then we didn’t go very
People didn’t go to town to shop if they lived out
in the country. They did very little town shopping.
They
went in and got everything they had to eat, and then they
stayed home.
Q:
I see.
A:
There’s nothing like the crowded shopping centers, and
nothing -- and there were very few shopping centers.
Q:
Now grocery stores, you really didn’t have any --
A:
Grocery stores were uptown, even on the square.
Q:
I see.
A:
But the groceries were delivered.
And one of the big
grocery stores was [Collier’s], and it was on the corner of
6th and Church where -- oh, what’s there -- what’s there
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now?
Q:
Well --
A:
6th and church, just across 6th from the [Sudocom]
building.
Q:
Well, Harvey’s is on one corner, and your store on the
other.
A:
And --
And but opposite that, it was on the south side of Church
Street.
Q:
Well, that’ where Grant’s big store is now.
A:
That’s where Grant’s is.
Collier’s.
Well, that’s was -- that was
And it was a very --
Q:
I thought that’s the Watkins Institute now.
A:
Very -- yes, where the Watkins Institute for (inaudible)
was built.
Collier’s was a very popular store, and it
carried the best of everything.
And then (inaudible)
Jackson was an old one, but that was on the square.
Q:
I see.
A:
What grocers were delivered.
Q:
Well now, did people go uptown and stay for lunch or stay
for dinner?
A:
The first --
It was a long way to come.
There were very -- there were very few places to go, but
the Maxwell house would be where you would go for lunch.
Q:
I see.
A:
And then a little later, there was a very good restaurant
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on Union Street called [Focon’s].
But most of the places
to eat were in the hotel.
Q:
I see.
I see.
A:
And the Maxwell House was a popular hotel.
That was before
the Hermitage Hotel was built, of course.
Q:
Well, people all came in carriages, did they not?
A:
They all came in carriages, and the carriages could be sent
to a delivery stable.
Q:
I see.
And they just waited until you were ready to have
it?
A:
And waited until they got the message to come and pick up
the people.
mostly.
Of course they had to come in carriages
Although we very soon had this transportation from
this -- out here.
First the dummy, then the electric, and
then the buses.
Q:
I see.
An urban.
A:
They’re buses, they’re not urban.
Q:
Yeah.
Of course an urban was electrical line first, wasn’t
it?
A:
Yeah.
First was an electrical line.
The first was the
dummy, and that was done to open up the newer property, and
Glendale Park was bought then.
Q:
Yes.
A:
And that -- it ran to Glendale Park where there was a zoo.
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Q:
Yes.
Yes.
I remember that.
Well now, when you went in
Franklin Road on -- in the -- in the buggy or the surrey,
or whatever you used to get to town.
over Brown’s Creek?
Was there a bridge
Did you -- did you go straight in on
the pike?
A:
Oh, we went straight in on the pike, just like it is today.
There were the two bridges, you know.
The two -- there’s
one hill in Brown’s Creek, and then one further down.
Q:
I see.
There was a railroad track there then?
A:
The railroad was the same thing.
The railroad’s where it
is now, the Nashville [Decatur] Railroad.
Q:
I see.
A:
Within very close -- very close to the Franklin pike.
Q:
I see.
A:
Broad street, and --
Q:
Had they built the reservoir on top of the reservoir then?
A:
Oh yes.
And then you went on in as far as --
The reservoir had been built just about -- well,
before I can remember.
Q:
Isn’t that a long time then?
A:
Before I can remember.
I remember when it broke, and
washed a house away nearby.
Q:
That’s right.
It did break, and a lot of water came down
that hill.
A:
A lot of water came down.
And father was on his way home
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on -- on the electric -- in his the electric car.
They had
(inaudible), you know.
Q:
Yes, and what happened?
A:
Nothing happened.
He avoided -- he didn’t get caught in
it, but mother heard it over the telephone, and she thought
he’d been washed away.
I can remember that night very
well.
Q:
(laughter)
And he got home safely.
A:
He got home safely.
When the Maxwell house was built, the
water pressure was not strong enough to throw it to the top
stories.
And they found that out before they put top
stories on, I reckon.
And there is -- there was an
artesian well in the northwest corner of that.
And I
telephoned when the Maxwell house was torn down, and it was
bought for those people who (inaudible).
Q:
Yeah.
A:
And called and asked if I could come and locate where that
electrical -- where that artesian well was that threw the - that had the pressure enough to throw the water to the
top story.
Q:
(overlapping dialogue; inaudible).
A:
I was able to go, and so they --
Q:
Well, they’ve been digging a hole down there, and they’ve
hit some water.
Now whether the well’s still there and I
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don’t know, but they -A:
Well, has it hit some water?
Q:
They’ve hit a little water.
though.
A:
I haven’t seen any pressure
It just seeped down.
Well, there was some pressure, and there was a well in the
northwest corner.
Q:
Yeah.
A:
That threw the water to the top story.
Q:
Well, we may -- they may find that out yet.
They’ve
drilled pretty far down there now.
A:
Well, nobody’s ever been -- I’ve mentioned it to people
never seemed to have heard of it. But you see, the Maxwell
house was -- belonged to my grandfather at one time, and
there was a great deal of talk about it in the family all
about the bricks.
Q:
Yeah.
Yeah.
A:
How they were made, and where they were made, and so on.
Q:
Where were the bricks made?
A:
Not the bricks that faced it, but the other bricks, and all
the walls were solid.
Q:
Exactly.
A:
Of a -- made at Traveler’s Rest.
Q:
Were they sure enough?
Out in the back way out in the
back?
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A:
Somewhere there, because my mother, as a child, had one -had her foot impressed on one brick, and it’s in one of the
walls -- was in the walls.
And I bought some of the brick
hoping I’d get that one.
Q:
Sort of the very small chance of doing that.
A:
Well, I didn’t get it.
(break in tape)
Well, I just
wanted to say that very few of my girlhood acquaintances, I
might call them contemporaries, went to college.
Q:
Not many people did in those days?
A:
Not many people that I knew did.
Q:
I see.
A:
Now at Vanderbilt, I was not -- I was at school with some
women, but I had never known those girls before.
Q:
How many people were at Vanderbilt when you had gone?
A:
There were 30 pe -- 30 women the year I was there.
And I -
Q:
I see.
And how many were the total student body?
A:
The total student body was not -- it was very little over
300.
Q:
I see.
A:
I don’t know whether that included the law or not.
Q:
I see.
A:
But those were for out there for very -- true over 300.
But for instance, a group of girls would go to Ward’s, and
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graduate there, and that’d be the end.
Q:
I see.
A:
They’d go to Price’s.
The year I was 15 and doing nothing,
we had a little reading group, and none of those ever went
to college.
Of course, I lost them entirely when I went.
And the time I was through and out, they were all married.
Q:
Yes.
A:
And so there were very few girls that I knew who went to
college.
And some of them went to college away from here,
some of them.
But I mean who went to Vanderbilt.
Now the
girls who went to Vanderbilt were usually connected, in
some way, with the faculty.
Ms. Stella Vaughn, whose
father was a professor of mathematics.
Q:
Yeah.
Right.
A:
And so went, and so on, and so on.
Q:
Well, now how about the boys?
How many boys in this
general area went to school, and were they just of the
families that had some land, or was it anybody who went?
A:
Well, I knew a great many of the boys who went there that
had -- came from families that I knew.
Q:
I see.
A:
And classmates, for instance, was (inaudible) Harris,
(inaudible), they were both in my class.
There was Norman
Davis.
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Q:
Yes.
A:
The father of [Jude] and [Machlan].
Q:
Yeah, right.
A:
And they were people that you knew that came of families
that you knew, but the girls did not.
I had no girl
friends except the daughter of the -- of a Presbyterian
preacher in east Nashville, who was a friend of mine there.
Q:
Well now, what about -- what about the occupation of the
young men after they got out of Vanderbilt?
A:
Most were in law and medicine, the ones that I knew went
into either law or medicine.
I was there the same time
with [Olden] West, and of course, you know who he is.
Q:
Yes.
A:
Who he was.
Q:
I see.
A:
Now a great many women who never graduated.
Q:
I see.
A:
Go there for one, two, or three years just like I never
graduated.
And it was really law or medicine.
I never had any right to graduate.
I had no --
no -- no record of (laughter) high school work.
Q:
Yes.
And you just took the courses you wanted to take.
A:
I took the courses I wanted to take.
I couldn’t take
anything else, and father wasn’t willing for me to go away.
Q:
How many professors were there, would you guess, at the
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time?
A:
That’s -- I was trying to -- (pause)
I don’t suppose there
was more than a dozen or 15 in the arts and sciences.
Q:
I see.
A:
I can name some of them: Dr. [Basker] for English, he was a
son in law of Bishop [MacTeel].
And then the father in
law, I’d forgotten his name, but he -- father in law was
Justice [Leighton] was one of the professors.
Collins (inaudible) was another one.
And Dr.
And he was English.
Dr. [Mimms] came after I was there, but I knew him.
Q:
Well, Vanderbilt was pretty far out in the country then
wasn’t it?
A:
It was really out in the country.
Went through some really
rather country to get there.
Q:
In other words, the area between 21st and 14th or so?
A:
Wasn’t built up for a long time.
Q:
And then it was just houses along the way.
A:
Now the -- where St. Thomas is was a large place that was
owned at that time by Judge Dickinson.
And that land ran
almost down to where stand -- there was just a row of
houses all along west end.
and Judge Dickinson’s place.
And then nothing between there
hayfield.
He had a cornfield, had a
And a good deal of land on one side of the
house.
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Q:
I see.
A:
I used to walk over there sometimes, spend the night with
them.
And then that row of houses on west end, there’s six
houses all just alike, as you know, from -- from the 21st
on.
Q:
Yes, 21st on, right.
A:
They were built while I was there.
Q:
They were built while you were in Vanderbilt?
A:
They were built while I was there, and one or two of them
were occupied by people that I knew.
Q:
I see.
What about the -- what about the need for
education?
A:
Was it great?
Did people --
I don’t think you had to have a degree to get a job like
you do now.
Q:
How would you contrast education in those days with what
you see happening today?
A:
I would contrast an education, I thought there was a closer
connection between the professor and his students than it
is now. Very much closer.
Of course they didn’t demand as
-- they didn’t cover outer space as much or as many
different angles.
But what you learned, you learned.
And
the teaching was more personal.
Q:
You felt these men were very able teachers?
A:
Well, there were able teachers, and there were teachers you
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knew.
Q:
I see.
It was a personal --
A:
It was a personal relation that I do not see or hear of
now.
Q:
Yes.
Well, I’m --
A:
I don’t know enough about it now, but that’s the way it -in mem -- in my memory.
I don’t hear of anybody that
seemed to be as close to their professors as I was to mine.
Q:
Well, those are very appropriate comments now.
I’m afraid
they are true.
A:
Well now, Dr. Dudley in Chemistry, Dr. Holfelt in German.
You really knew Dr. -- he just didn’t appeal on the
speaker’s stand, and make his talk, or to give you the
subject to write a paper on, and then disappear again.
knew every one of you, the classes were small.
He
If the
class was 35 or 40, it was enormous.
Q:
I see.
And the average class was 15?
A:
And had to be broken up.
The average class was 15, and as
you grew -- went up into the German III, and all of the
(laughter) I think -- I know that I was graduate work
because there was six of us in the German.
Q:
Think of that.
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