Episode 108 Do Some Husbands Live By A Double Standard And Is That Ok Because They Can’t Help It? ­ Part II Length 37:02 [00:39]
Jonathan: Welcome to the Love & Respect podcast. I’m Jonathan Eggerichs here with my father Emerson Eggerichs. We are so grateful that you could join us this week, as always. This is Episode 108. This is Part II of a series we started last week titled “Do Some Husbands Live by a Double Standard and is That OK Because They Can’t Help It?” [00:59]
I’ll have my Dad give a brief summary here in a second and then we’ll jump right in to Part II as we essentially wrap up a 4­part series where we did two episodes on wives and then two episodes on husbands. [01:13]
We’ll be transitioning to something else next week, to be determined at this point. Well, into 108 episodes, again, appreciative of all of you that have left reviews. We’ve gone over the 200­mark in iTunes. [01:27]
Thank you for all those of you who additionally have started to subscribe, whether you listen in iTunes or not, because that helps the show’s rankings, even when you don’t listen via iTunes, just hitting subscribe in there. [01:39]
But, as always, the app, our personal app that you can find in all devices I think has something nearing 22,000 downloads now. Thank you for all of those of you who have downloaded the app and are engaging our material. [01:51]
That way you can get every single episode inside that app, and obviously you can access the episodes in iTunes as well, and in other place where there are RSS feeds. And always you can go to ​LoveAndRespectPodcast.com to make it kind of easy on there to access all the episodes as well. It’s mobile responsive, so you can use it on your phone if you’re not using some other format. [02:16]
If you haven’t been over to our website or store in a while, there’s lots of new blog content, products. We’ve got a 14­day challenge running right now that should pop up for you when you head to the website if you want to receive seven emails over the course of 14 days and take a husband and wife challenge with each other. Some useful information there that my Dad put together here recently. [02:39]
Lots of new stuff happening. Lots of new stuff coming here in the fall 2016 and the spring of 2017—products, etc.—so stay tuned for all of that as well. [02:49]
As always, if you have any questions, email us at ​[email protected]​. We love hearing your questions, testimonies and any other thing that you wanted to share with us. © 2016 Emerson Eggerichs, All Rights Reserved [03:01]
Without further due, Dad, I’ll turn it over to you for Part II of “Do Some Husbands Live by a Double Standard and is That OK Because They Can’t Help It?” [03:08]
Emerson: We’ll get into that. I do have a question. Suppose 47 years from now someone clicks on this episode. Is it dated? Because the 14­day challenge, “Oh, yeah, Emerson did that 47 years ago. He’s been dead for 27 years. Jonathan is taking over but they don’t have the 14­day challenge.” [03:29]
How does a person know—I’ve never asked you that question—when they tune in? Because we’re telling them to do the 14­day challenge and we did that half a century ago for the person now listening. [03:40]
Jonathan: Usually I try to reference in terms of indefinite time period in the future, but if you are listening to this in the year 2063—if I get my math correctly—that’s probably not going to be there. [03:57]
Just go to ​LoveAndRespect.com or what else is there in place of the internet and see if you can interface with our material in any way. As of now, in August 2016… Emerson: You didn’t know I was going to do that to you! It’s funny! I hope our listeners enjoyed that. I entertain myself sometimes. [04:18]
The double standards of some husbands… We laid out in detail the clear double standard that many husbands hold that tells them they’re allowed to gaze upon other women—we’re not talking about pornography, but just looking at women who walk by and doing so habitually. [04:32]
The men say, “God made me this way, visually.” But those men do not favor or endorse or sanction their wives who would do the same. Note out this is a common struggle in marriage as across the land, and it’s been a struggle throughout time. [04:48]
But it’s not enough just to admit the double standard. The question now in the second part is, “What can we do about it?” What should a husband do about his looking at women. We want to begin with a few gentlemen. [04:59]
Every husband at first point must hear what his wife expresses about her pain and hopelessness over his looking at the chests and backsides of women. Forgive me for saying it, but if you don’t know this is going on, I don’t know what planet you’re on. [05:16]
We all know it. Women know that men look at women, and men know that men look at women. It’s kind of an unspoken thing going on. Women dress themselves because they want to be captivating. They don’t want to be lusted after, but they certainly want to have their husbands have eyes only for them. [05:33]
Women know that men are visually oriented. The Bible says it, “Let her breasts satisfy you at all times.” (Proverbs 5:1) There is no verse that says, “Let his breasts satisfy you at all times.” © 2016 Emerson Eggerichs, All Rights Reserved [05:43]
So Proverbs is very clear. Men are visually oriented. But here’s the challenge. Every honorable man must realize his wife is not alone and how this threatens her, it deflates her and even defeats her. [05:55]
And by the way, I point out, will our daughters feel the same way about their husbands and will the looking of our sons­in­law trouble us as they stare at the chest and backsides of other women? [06:09]
I mean, is this the father you want for your grandchildren, gentlemen? Think about that for a moment. We went through the comments that women were making. Jonathan, if you would read these again, but I want to ask the question: which of the following, gentlemen, might be true to your wife because of your habitual looking at other women, if in fact you habitually look? [06:32]
So, some questions to think about. 1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
Is she emotionally devastated? Is she crippled in heart? Can she not get past it? Does she shut down sexually? Does she feel like you’re having an affair? Does she feel like it is her problem? Is she disillusioned with men? And does she fear never being loved? [07:03]
Emerson: And those who are the topics that we addressed in Part I. As an honorable man, the challenge will you cease telling your wife that, “Hey, this is no big deal.” Will you stop justifying that? [07:21]
There’s a difference between looking and lusting, and we’ll talk about that a little bit today. There’s a natural attraction that men feel, but the challenge for us is not to be dismissive of our wife. I think it’s better to be humble, to acknowledge this, but at the end of the day one is going to have to ask himself, “How is my wife feeling about this? And is this legitimate on her part or is she exaggerating her concern?” [07:48]
“Also, my daughter struggles with the son­in­law that is doing the same.” This is where gentlemen need to be in a position of moral authority and be able to say, by example, “Hey, this is a reality of all of us men, but we need to guard against this?” [08:08]
There’s a second point, Jonathan. Would you read the second main point that I’m going to make here? [08:15]
Jonathan: Every husband needs to appreciate two moral equivalencies when it comes to looking at women. You want me to read the…? © 2016 Emerson Eggerichs, All Rights Reserved [08:23]
Emerson: Yeah, and I’ll just share it. To help men understand what wives feel when their husbands look at other women, staring at their chest and backside. There are two things that we usually say. One at the conference, I really think helps men understand. [08:37]
Sarah and I try to get across what a wife might feel, because some men say, “Hey, this is no big deal! You’re making a mountain out a molehill. It’s just isn’t a big deal.” I say, “Okay. Suppose your wife comes home and says, ‘You know what? Jason down the street just got his fifth promotion. He makes 10 times more than you make, he looks like Atlas, he coaches his three kids’ soccer teams and all three teams are national champs. And notice it’s Saturday morning his BMW is out of his house because the CEOs of all the major corporations in the community come every Saturday to take notes on his wisdom. Why don’t you be more like Jason?’” [09:15]
And there’s kind of a gasp. I said, “That’s how your wife feels when you’re gazing other women, particularly when it’s in pornography.” The comparison devastates her. Women move into self­deprecation. It just flattens them out. It’s so very, very painful. [09:32]
Jonathan, we heard from that other wife who I thought made a good point, that also establishes kind of another moral equivalency. We quoted her in Part I. She had written a comment on my blog, but would you pick it up? [09:50]
Jonathan:​ It’s powerful what she wrote. Emerson:​ Yeah, why don’t you read that? [09:52]
Jonathan: Well, she was talking about her husband told her that God designed him to look at other women. But then she asks the question in her email, which is in Part I. She says, “Why I cannot say, ‘God created women to be naturally nurturing, caring, loving?’ Should I then be nurturing and caring and loving to other men, not my own husband?” [10:15]
Emerson: I read that and felt, “Wow!” She really nailed that! So that’s a profound point. What if she told her husband, “Look, because I’m a natural nurturer, I will make a sandwich for the handsome carpenter who I learned had no breakfast because he took his sweet daughter to a doctor’s appointment, which is the kind of thing he must do since his wife died three years ago.” [10:37]
And by the way, I’m going to be calling him to see, to see, to see… This is a different kind of scene, isn’t it? To see or look in and how he’s doing. “I’ll just look, look in on him. I offered to help him with his daughter. And by the way, this is who God designed me to be! You look at women, I’m going to look in at this man.” [10:59]
Does that make sense? I think we would agree that the husband will find that quite unacceptable. But the question is: do husbands get it? Do they believe that their looking at women differs from their wives looking on at a man? Jonathan, will you continue reading that? © 2016 Emerson Eggerichs, All Rights Reserved [11:16]
Jonathan: “Do husbands get it? Do they believe that their looking at women differs from their wives looking in on a man? Take for example this husband who have been looking at women in inappropriate ways, which rocks his wife’s world. She in turn bonded with one of her son’s coaches.” [11:16]
“The husband was infuriated at her behavior, but not at his own. He ended up writing, ‘One thing that really bothers me is that she has allowed herself to become friends with my son’s basketball coaches, which maddens me. I saw one put his arms around her and hug her and then I saw her throw her hip to the other one as his back was to her.’” [11:52]
“’I don’t think anything has happened, but she told me she has bonded with one of them and they have become friends, but there is nothing to worry about. This infuriates me because she’s playing with fire. And the hipping, the other coach, comes across as flirting. Maybe not to her, but it does to a man.’” [12:09]
Emerson: See guys? I mean, this kind of stuff sends us to the roof. There’s just no question. That’s where there’s duplicity. The hypocrisy. And even though women are not looking, and they don’t seem to identify, I mean, if this kind of thing goes on it just simply causes the top of the head of the man to explode off. [12:30]
This raises the question, then, will a husband conclude his looking at women pales in comparison to his wife befriending a man? Or will he be humble and realize that the pain he feels over her playing with fire is the pain his wife feels when he habitually looks at other women since that too is playing with fire? [12:49]
Jonathan, would you read what Job in Proverbs states? Jonathan: Which we read in Part I as well, “I have made a covenant with my eyes. How then could I gaze upon a woman?” (Job 31:1) [13:03]
Emerson:​ And then you have Proverbs 6:25. Jonathan: “Do not desire her beauty in your heart, nor let her capture you with her eyelids.” [13:14]
Emerson: ​And the point there is that that can eventually lead to the bedroom. There’s a third thing that we need to come to grips with. We must not deny the unique struggle men have because of their visual orientation. [13:25]
The female figure attracts the male eye. Ladies, I want you to understand this, because we’re going to conclude with the importance of not shaming your husband. You don’t take this blog, print it out and shake it in front of his face any more than you want your sweet daughter­in­law to do that toward your boy who’s going to be visually oriented and is going to have this struggle. [13:43]
The research on this is in. Men are very much affected by this. It’s the nucleus accumbens. They’ve done research on it, what lights up in a man when he sees the © 2016 Emerson Eggerichs, All Rights Reserved female figure. We can argue all day long that he ought not to even gaze at a woman, look at a woman, or be bothered by a woman or be aware of beautiful women, but the truth is he is. [14:03]
In fact, there was a CNN’s special called “Love, Sex in the Male Brain.” Jonathan, would you quote what they talked about? [14:12]
Jonathan: Yeah, first of all, I have read this. Have you seen this when it came out? Where did you hear about this? I found this fascinating what I’m about to read. [14:20]
Emerson:​ No, I came across it on the internet. I mean, everything on the internet is true. Jonathan: Yeah, right? Anyway, this was a CNN special called “Love, Sex in the Male Brain.” Louann Brizendine said, “We can't really blame a guy for being a guy. This is especially true now that we know that the male and female brains have some profound differences.” [14:41]
“Our brains are mostly alike. We are the same species after all, but the differences can sometimes make it seem like we’re worlds apart. Perhaps the biggest difference between the male and female brain is that men have a sexual pursuit area that is 2.5x larger than the one in the female brain.” [14:58]
“Not only that, but beginning in their teens they produce 20­25 more testosterone than they did during preadolescence. If testosterone were beer, a 9­year old boy would be getting an equivalent of a cup a day, but a 15­year old would be getting the equivalent of 2 gallons a day!” [15:16]
Emerson: Stop right there. We’re laughing, but it really is not laughing matter. We all know that part of the reasons that boys and the teenager is quiet, what they’re struggling with and every guy listening to this understands that. I mean, this is intense, it’s real. It is not something that we can just ignore and we’ve got to be empathetic rather than shaming our boys for this. [15:41]
I talk about that in the “Mother & Son” book. We talk about it a little bit in the “Love & Respect in the Family.” I mean, what a great visual Louann brings here. Read that again about the difference between a 9­year­old boy if you were drinking beer, and a 15­year old. [15:56]
Jonathan: “If testosterone were beer, a 9­year old boy would be getting an equivalent of a cup a day, but a 15­year old would be getting the equivalent of 2 gallons a day!” [16:06]
She goes on to say, “This fuels their sexual engines and makes it impossible for them to stop thinking about female body parts and sex. So it begins the ‘man trance’. All that testosterone drives the man trance. That glazed eye look a man gets when he sees breasts.” © 2016 Emerson Eggerichs, All Rights Reserved [16:23]
“As a woman who was among the ranks of the early feminists, I wish I could say that the men can stop themselves from entering this trance, but the truth is they can't. Their visual brain circuits are always on to look out for fertile needs.” [16:35]
“Whether or not they intend to pursue a visual enticement, they have to check out the goods. To a man, this is the most natural response in the world, so he’s dismayed by how betrayed his wife or girlfriend feels when she sees him eyeing another woman.” [16:48]
“Men look at attractive women the way we look at pretty butterflies. They catch the male brain’s attention for a second, but then they fleet out of his mind. Five minutes later, while we’re still fuming, he’s deciding whether or not he wants ribs or chicken for dinner.” [17:02]
“He asks us, ‘What’s wrong?’ We say, ‘Nothing.’ He shrugs and turns on the TV. We smolder and fear that he’ll leave us for another woman.” [17:11]
Emerson: Wow! Here she is—and a good thing she is a female. I think she’s an MD, Harvard educated. She’s a brilliant researcher. Really I don’t know where her spiritual journey is. We’re not endorsing the fact that men are visually oriented for lust. [17:31]
As Christ followers, we take a position, “If the lust is there, we have to struggle with it. We have to struggle with what she is saying.” We’re going to talk about the fact that you can't help the first look, but can help the second, third and fourth. [17:44]
So we have to develop the spiritual discipline. And we’re also not reducing this to being comparable to looking at butterflies. I think there are some women that sigh when they hear this, but I think she is pointing out something that needs to be recognized and that is the fear that a woman has at the man because he looks once or twice in a restaurant, and he’s otherwise just a good­willed man. It doesn’t mean that he is secretly meditating on leaving his wife for this other women. That he now has moved on to: does he want steak or does he want chicken? [18:18]
And there’s a great deal of truth. I think you were chuckling at that, Jonathan, that as you read through that, made comment on what was striking you in even that last point that I made. [18:27]
Jonathan: Well, I mean, I just think as you look back on adolescence, you know, you kind of have some understanding of that. I think that part is true. I appreciate you using the language of empathy versus shaming with male boys and how do we have these conversations with them, whether as parents or whether as kind of a community at large and how do we have some understanding that these differences are real, even though there are obviously similarities by being the same species. [19:03]
But I think, secondly, this idea of being visual oriented and looking around whether it’s at dinner or it’s out for a walk or whether you’re out alone. What we do with that is critically important. So we need obviously—maybe an overused word in Christian circles—we need accountability, but I think we need a general level of understanding © 2016 Emerson Eggerichs, All Rights Reserved with their wives about this in terms of what it is and what it isn’t, but we certainly shouldn’t use it like we heard from the man in the first email during Part I. [19:40]
Emerson: Well said. I think when we look at the double standard of women, the women who says, “I’m strong and independent.” So often that’s rooted in her own desire to convince herself that she is not weak and that she’s not going to be unhelpfully dependent upon her husband. [19:58]
It’s rooted in more for desire to move forward, to believe that she could live on her own—particularly if she’s going to be a widow. But a husband can take up a fence there and think, “She doesn’t need me. She doesn’t want me. She thinks she’s better than me,” and the list goes on and on. [20:14]
He reads into that far more in what he should. In a comparable way, a woman, according to Louann can read into this moment where she observes her husband looking at other women and then concludes that this man is a horrible rotten sinner, that he’s unfaithful, that he’s betraying her and he’s just like Judas, or maybe Judas’ cousin. [20:35]
So that’s an overreaction. And every reaction can have an overreaction. They talk about riding a horse, that if you start to fall off in one side, you can overreact to try to come back up and you end up going off on the other side. [20:47]
We must always guard against these reactions. As we then we’ve been making the case here, the inappropriateness of a man looking, and lusting, and gazing, we challenge and exhort at these guys. Now, we’re also trying to be empathetic here, and Jonathan referenced that even toward our team boys. [21:04]
We don’t have an immediate answer as to how you proceed because it’s not always easy. If you have that kind of testosterone shooting through the boy’s system at those levels, this is a challenge. [21:16]
But has God has created this. So what we have to do is entrust this to Him and trust him for this. And if your husband is doing this, you want to approach this subject in a very honoring and respectful way from the standpoint that you’re not a man and that you understand this challenge and struggle. [21:35]
You need to say to him, “But I need your reassurance, and you need to reassure me. I need your strength, because I feel vulnerable, I feel inadequate, I feel like I’m not enough for you at times.” And have that humble and honoring conversation with him. [21:49]
As long as you understand by saying, “And you will…” on an ongoing basis, “always be aware of this. I’m not denying that. I, as a woman, want to be attractive to be people. I don’t want to be lusted after them, but there is a desire in every woman to be captivating.” © 2016 Emerson Eggerichs, All Rights Reserved [22:05]
You understand this, but there is this sometimes shaming kind of thing. Suddenly this guy is the worst person on the planet over something that Louann has communicated here is the man trance and he’s got to deal with it. [22:19]
Jonathan: Let me comment too because I think we always attempt to do a good job of speaking in general principles without knowing everybody’s particular circumstances. As you would acknowledge, if a wife’s husband has had an affair three months ago… I mean, hypersensitivity is going to be there, or if you’re newly married and you realize that your husband, in this case speaking of wives moving towards a husband, had 12 sexual partners before you, there’s going to be stuff to work through there. [22:49]
Emerson: Exactly. Thank you for that. Again, in these conversations there has to be some degree of honesty about your own personal frame of reference. If we’re talking just generically here and you just come off the heels of an adulterous relationship, that your wife has seen you look at another woman and she gets really upset with you and you say, “Look, Emerson and Jonathan said this is a struggle I’m on continually.” [23:15]
Yeah, well, there’s a history here. So she’s not reacting just to that point in time observation that reminds her how maybe that affair began two years ago. I don’t know the history there. So we have to be honest about that as we move forward on these things. [23:32]
And also, again, as we listen to this, it will be so easy for you to say, “Your wife is shaming you,” when she’s just speaking the truth humbly about her fears here and you then take that and interpret that, “You see, that’s what you do. You just shame me. You take this information and you shame me.” But that’s not her heart at all! [23:48]
She’s seeking reassurance from you because you’re everything to her. You’re the man she loves and she’s approaching this subject because she wants you to reassure her that all is okay. It’s not her desire to put you down because that doesn’t energize her. It doesn’t make her feel like a winner if she makes you feel like a loser. [24:06]
I often talk about the fact that if we get into the ring to fight ourselves… So, I get in the ring, have my boxing gloves on, I’m in there by myself and the bell rings and I do roundhouse and I hit myself in the nose and knock myself out. The question is, who wins? Well, I won! But who loses? Well, I lost. [24:24]
And in the deeper situation I really am the loser. Husbands and wives are one. We’re not two. So for her to cause you to feel like she’s knocked you flat, she’s simply going to be the loser. [24:36]
So women know that. That’s not their desire. They don’t want to be a loser. They don’t want to win at your expense because they know they lose at your expense, and you got to trust her heart. [24:46]
But as we go on, we must distinguish, as I said earlier, the first look from the second. You know what? What man can't help the first look? Every man notice at a beautiful woman © 2016 Emerson Eggerichs, All Rights Reserved boarding the plane and walking down the aisle? Unless he’s reading his paper or he just read that he won the lotto. [25:03]
However, he need not rubberneck. He need not turn and gape and google and glare and gaze. The second look is always his choice. Jonathan, read what Martin Luther said. [25:18]
Jonathan: “You can't keep the birds from flying over your head, but you can prevent them for building a nest in your hair.” [25:27]
Emerson: This is the whole realm of temptation. Hey, you’re going to see a woman, but you don’t have to just turn and say, “I’m going to become fixated on her.” We must distinguish then looking from lusting. [25:41]
Ladies, there’s a huge difference between just looking, once to even twice, from your husband lusting. And Louann pointed out, the next moment he’s thinking about chicken or steak while you’re sitting there fuming thinking he’s unfaithful. [25:56]
Just because a guy looks, doesn’t mean he lust. Even on the second or third look. However, the corporate Godly advice of every wise man I’ve ever met is that when we start looking the second and third and fourth times, we’re putting our minds in a situation that is not spiritually healthy and can give way to fantasy. We’re building the nest. [26:16]
Makes sense? Jonathan:​ It does. [26:21]
Emerson: Now, this fourth one. We must focus our attention on the tasks before us. Jonathan, if I were to tell you to stop thinking of the number nine. Stop thinking of the number nine. Stop thinking of it. Jonathan:​ I’m into it. [26:37]
Emerson:​ Why? Jonathan:​ Because you have planted the seed, right? Emerson: ​So what’s the way out of that one? I mean, if we say, “Stop looking at women…” Paul, in fact, even in the Bible Apostle Paul says when he was a younger man he learned the Ten Commandments and one of is “Thou shalt not covet.” [27:02]
He said he didn’t covet until he heard the law tell him not to covet. And when he heard the law, the law became to him sin. That’s what he meant when he said the law to him became sin. © 2016 Emerson Eggerichs, All Rights Reserved [27:12]
Suddenly these laws put within his heart a desire to do the opposite, and that’s when you got in tune with the flesh and the carnal flesh. It’s something within us. So if we say, “Okay, gentlemen, stop looking…” Guess what? You’re going to look. [27:26]
So one way that we replace the number nine or stop thinking of number nine is start thinking of number three. That’s one way to do it. [27:35]
So what I want to say to guys: just relax. Just relax, because if we say, “Stop looking,” you’re going to then want to look. And commit yourselves more fully to daily tasks that are before you. [27:47]
I think some people are looking into pornography, into a lot of it because they’re frankly bored with life. Why do affairs happen? I think people are just bored! But that’s just a sidebar comment. [27:57]
But I think there has to be a focus on what’s God calling you to do. Who’s He calling you to be? Keep marching forward in a positive way. Have a constructive, positive focus. Keep hammering… [28:10]
Jonathan: You and I heard a sermon yesterday that spoke of this a little bit as well. You’ve got to put distraction, technique… Emerson: It was dealing with adultery, the Ten Commandments. And one of the Commandments “Thou shalt not commit adultery,” and this pastor was saying what? [28:26]
Jonathan: Well, he was talking about what is the preparatory work that we can do. Clearly we can stay focused on what we’re doing in the moment versus a second glance. We can start to distract ourselves if those thoughts come in our mind. We can also do kind of preparation in whether of Scripture memorization or something like that where we’re kind of coming in to the situation with a plan, if it happens to us. [28:47]
Emerson: Yeah. I mean, if you’re in a construction site with a whole group of guys and the catcalling starts coming out, hey, we get it. But typically the answer is just keep hammering while the two women walk by. [28:59]
If you’re in the office when two women walk by, keep typing away at the computer. If you’re at the park with the kids when two young mothers stroll by, come around to the other side of the swing and push your kids from there. [29:10]
Taking small actions like this is a way of turning the tide on this. Be proactive and relaxed. Some of you might think— Jonathan: I just want to make a joke, because you get to make them. If we’ve got construction and carpenters in the audience, they’ve gotten all the references they needed from the wives and husbands perspective in terms of what you’re talking about. © 2016 Emerson Eggerichs, All Rights Reserved [29:28]
The wives looking at the carpenters across the street in a construction and they start with catcalls. Emerson: Maybe I need to become more preoccupied with different occupations. A wife knows, though, when her husband is seeking to do this, she’s very gracious. Women are very understanding. That she senses humility in the man. [29:55]
There was one family I heard of years ago that the father was just a humble Godly guy. He really was. He was that gentle giant type of guy. We’ve all been around that sweet­spirited guy, but he was open and said, “I struggle at times.” [30:07]
So you had like three daughters and a wife. This was years ago and the grocery stores had pornography, whatever. The daughters would run into this store, flip all the pornographic magazines over so he could go down that aisle to get some stuff without being bothered. They were all a team in this! [30:22]
It just brought joy to his heart. They didn’t shame him, they understood him. It was a beautiful, beautiful thing. The joy that that brought to him and they were able to do it in such a way that he didn’t feel like he was this weakling because they also acknowledged they had vulnerabilities. They had their female weaknesses. [30:43]
And as a family they understood they all had strengths, but they also understood they each had weaknesses. And they didn’t pass judgment on the other based on the other’s vulnerability because they knew that tomorrow that vulnerability that they had at a different area would manifest itself. [30:58]
But again, I come back, if you have a daughter, you would want to be the kind of model that provides an incentive to your future son­in­law to keep his eyes for your daughter only. [31:07]
And if you have a son, you need to be a model so that he does not bring intense pain to that sweet daughter­in­law of yours who will also be the apple of your eye because your boy has kind of gone off a little bit on this. [31:22]
Well, do we have a word for the wife? Jonathan, do you want to read what Mom says? Jonathan: Sure, she says, “Looking at women is not necessarily a sin, hence why we are looking and what we do with it that is the sin.” [31:37]
“I would encourage you to say to your husband, ‘It feels so unloving to me when I see you look at other women. I want you to have eyes for only me. I want you to be strong for me. It makes me feel I am not good enough for you. Can you help me with my feelings?’” [31:50]
Emerson: Invited discussion on this. But again, this idea, “I want you to be strong for me. It makes me feel I’m not good enough for you. I’m not trying to shame you.” If you send that message, most men are going to engage this because he understands that. © 2016 Emerson Eggerichs, All Rights Reserved [32:06]
It’s not going to be an easy conversation, but nonetheless that’s how I think you need to proceed. Jonathan, quote Proverbs 12:4 that’s very important for every wife to know and many women do know this first, somehow it just sticks with them. [32:21]
Jonathan:​ Proverbs 12:4, “She who shames him is like rottenness in his bones.” Emerson: It’s talking about a husband and wife there. Shame in your husband. And this is something you don’t intend to do, but you don’t struggle in this area. So it’d be very easy for you to become self­righteous on the heels of what you see is his unrighteousness. [32:41]
It’s very, very painful to a man to feel like he’s being judged as this horrible, rotten, ugly sinner because there’s something within his male body that he didn’t ask to be there. He didn’t ask to have—how many gallons? 2.5 gallons of beer a day? [33:00]
Jonathan:​ 2 gallons. Emerson: 2 gallons! I mean, he has a struggle that your daughter does not have. He has that struggle at teenage years that he didn’t have when he was a 9­year­old boy. Life was very good preadolescent for boys, and then something hits them. [33:14]
So it’s important not to shame him, because it’s not unique to your husband. That would be one of your closing thoughts we have. As threatening as his looking is to you, he struggles with this differently than you do. Do not lose your dignity while addressing this concern with him. [33:30]
Respectfully ask him to listen, even to this podcast, if he’s not, or read these blogs that we’ve written on this. But in order for you to better understand the challenge that he has and to better understand his heart, not for the purpose of shaming him. [33:45]
Any closing thoughts and questions? Jonathan: Well, as we did last time, I just love to leave people with just some questions to ponder, if that’s okay. [33:55]
Husbands, what did your answer concerning, “What may be true of your wife do your habitual looking at other women?” How would you address this? [34:06]
Being completely honest with yourself here, how do you as a husband differentiate between looking and lusting? Do you have lusting to repent of and to address in your day­to­day life? [34:19]
In what environments and situations do you find yourself struggling the most with lusting at other women? What would you do to distract yourself and refocus on something different the next time temptation walks by you in the form of breasts and backsides? © 2016 Emerson Eggerichs, All Rights Reserved [34:34]
Wives, as threatened as you are, how have you learned to deliver your message as a dignified and respectful woman who has no intentions of shaming her husband who is hardwired to look at the female figure the first time? [34:47]
Emerson:​ Well, let me just pray for both of these series. The double standard of both. Lord, none of us want to be hypocrites. None of us want to say, “Do as I say but not as I do,” that is repulsive to all of us. [35:07]
I pray for those women who listen to the double standard there and how innocently they may make statements that, “I am strong and independent,” but if her husband were to say he’s strong and independent she’d go through the roof. [35:17]
I pray that we would be conscious of this. I say the same in prayer to you on behalf of these men who said, “Hey, it’s no big deal, but don’t you do it, woman. I can look at women, but don’t you look at men.” Lord, that’s hypocritical. That’s a double standard. [35:33]
So, Father, at the same time, we’re all in process that many of these things are rooted in parts of our male and female fears and sexual desires. There are so many things that we have within us and we can feel them, we can see them. [35:50]
We just acknowledge again that we need your help, we entrust ourselves to you and pray, “Your will be done. And delivery us from evil. Grant to us a new strength to pursue a course that really brings you honor.” [36:08]
We just commit these conversations that husbands and wives are going to have possibly. That there’d be a sense of your presence in that. And then we have a sense of restfulness, not a desire to score points or to somehow put the other down, but there’d just be a sense of desire from mutual understanding and to give each other grace. [36:28]
In the name of Jesus Christ we pray. Amen. Jonathan:​ Amen. Take care, have a great week! We’ll see you next time. © 2016 Emerson Eggerichs, All Rights Reserved