6 Church Street, Gardiner, Maine 04345 Debby L. Willis, Chairperson Dorothy Morang, Recording Secretary CITYOFGARDINER
PLANNINGBOARD
GardinerPlanningBoard
CityofGardiner,Maine
February12,2013
RegularMeeting6:00PM
ROLLCALL
PamelaMitchelNateMcKenna RonaldCondonEdwardLawrence
Present:
DebbyWillis,Chair
JudithDorsey Absent:
JamesMontell
AlsoPresent:
DavidCichowski,CodeEnforcementOfficer(CEO)
DorothyMorang,PlanningBoardRecordingSecretary
NateRudy,DirectorofPlanningandCommunityDevelopment
PatriciaHart,CityCouncilor
JohnBurgess,BoardofAppealsRepresentativetotheOrdinanceReviewCommittee
ThomHarnett,CityMayor
RalphClark RobertRapalosWendySeremet
GloriaHaley GeraldineRideout
MattieParlin
HildaWhitmore
JoanVining DonVining
KeithWhitmore
RobertLash MarkWarren,Applicant
MarcinaJohnson
ChandlerJohnson
PhilBarter
MargaretBarter
VeroniqueVendette IanPillsbury
CarlPerry
1.)
CalltheMeetingtoorder.
ChairWilliscalledthemeetingtoorder.
2.)Rollcalltaken.
3.)
MeetingMinutesOctober9,2012
PamMitchelmovedtoapprovetheminutesaswritten.JudyDorseysecondedthemotion.
Vote:5infavor.0opposed.1abstained(EdLawrencewasnotatmeeting)Motionpassed.
February 12, 2013 Draft Planning Board Minutes
4.)
PublicHearing–PlanBoardReview
MarkWarren,Applicantisseekingapprovaltoconducta9,054SFRetailBusinessin
an existing structure with 6,000 SF of outside storage/display area. The property,
located at 26 Winter St, City Tax Map 034, Lot 82‐1 is in the Central Business (CB)
ZoningDistrict.
Chair Willis asked the Applicant to introduce himself and to give an overview of his
proposal.
Mark Warren said that he would like to have a 9,054 SF retail business in an existing
business with outside storage. He said he didn’t put the name of the business on the
Applicationwhenitwassubmittedbecausehedidn’thavealeasewiththebusinessatthat
time and he didn’t want to publicize it. The business is an Off Price Store. They were
previously in Gardiner on Water St where US Cellular is located now. He will use the
existing building, gut it and make it one room. He said that the outdoor space could be
nothing,orifatruckunloadsgoods,theremaybesuppliesstoredoutthereforatime.He
is ready to close on the property this Friday and the business hopes to open within one
month.
Pamaskedwheretheoutdoordisplaywouldbe.Marksaidthattherewouldbetwodisplay
areas–oneinfrontofthebuildingandoneinthebackbeyondtheparkingareanearwhere
theinventorywouldbeunloaded.
Judy said that the Land Use Ordinance doesn’t allow an outdoor storage facility in the
CentralBusiness(CB)Zone.Sheisconcernedifweallowthis,Markmightsellthebuilding
andsomeoneelsecoulduseitasagrandfatheredstoragefacility.
Mark said that it isn’t a separate storage facility; the items are related to the retail sales.
Judy said that the Ordinance doesn’t say the storage facility is ok if it is related to retail
sales.ChairWillisnotedthattheBoardmembersdidn’tknowthebuildingusewhenthey
wereconsideringoutdoorstorage.Itappearstobeanaccessoryusetotheretailbusiness.
Marksaidthatthenexttenantmightbe,forexampleahardwarestoreandwanttostore
pellets, etc. – it would be related to the retail business. Ron asked if any other retail
businessesintheCBDistricthadoutdoorstorage.NateMcKennasaidHarvey’sonMaine
Av.Hesaidhesawitasstoreinventory,notasanoutdoorstoragefacility.
Chair Willis asked the Board members if anyone felt that they couldn’t review this
Applicationinanunbiasedmanner.Everyonefeltthattheycouldreviewit.
6:13 PM Chair Willis opened the Public Hearing and asked if there was anyone from the
publicwhowantedtocomment.Noonecommented.SheclosedthePublicHearing.
TheBoardreviewedGardiner’sLandUseOrdinance,Section6.2.3–6.2.13ReviewCriteria.
Judy asked, concerning 6.2.8, why the Applicant needed to cut some trees. Mark said to
neatenuptheareaandonetreeneededtocomedown.JudyaskediftheBoardcouldlimit
what could be stored outdoors as there shouldn’t be hazardous materials next to the
stream, such as oil, anti‐freeze, fertilizer. Mark said he would suggest adding to the
February 12, 2013 Draft Planning Board Minutes
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approvalthattherewouldbenoliquidstoredoutsideoranythingthatwouldleachintothe
stream.
PamMitchelmadeamotionthatweaccepttheReviewCriteria,6.2.3–6.2.13aswritten.
JudyDorseysecondedthemotion.
Vote:6infavor.0opposed.Motionpassed.
The Board reviewed Section 8 – General Performance Standards and decided that
Standards8.7,8.8and8.9apply.
8.7ExteriorLighting–ChairWillisaskedtheApplicantifhewasgoingtochangeoraddto
theexteriorlighting.Marksaidno.
8.8Noise–ChairWillisaskedtheApplicantaboutnoise.Marksaidthattherewouldnotbe
anyloudnoiseorloudspeakersoutsidethebuilding.
8.9ExternalMaterialStorage–Pamnotedthattheareaaroundwherethestorageareaand
dumpsterisproposedisverywellscreenedonthestreamsideandintheback.Thereisa
raisedareaontheSummerStside,butitmightneedatreeorsomethingaddedonthatside
forscreening.ChairWillissharedherconcernsaboutthestoragearea‐thatchildrencould
getaccesstoitanditbehazardousforthemorifitgotunsightly.Shesuggestedthatthe
CEOcouldrequestitbefencedinifthathappens.Marksaidhewasokwiththat.
Pam Mitchel made a motion that General Performance Standards 8.7 and 8.8 have been
metand8.9hasbeenmetwiththeconditionthatnoliquidbestoredoutsidethatcouldbe
hazardous to the stream and the CEO can require, if necessary a tree or 2 be planted to
furtherscreenthedumpster.JudyDorseysecondedthemotion.
Vote:6infavor.0opposed.Motionpassed.
PamMitchelmadeamotion(ReviewCriteria6.2.2)thatalloftheapplicableprovisionsof
this Ordinance have been met with the conditions on the outdoor storage. Judy Dorsey
secondedthemotion.
Vote:6infavor.0opposed.Motionpassed.
Pam Mitchel made a motion that we approve this Application with the provisions
previouslynoted.JudyDorseysecondedthemotion.
Vote:6infavor.0opposed.Motionpassed.
ChairWillisthankedtheApplicantandwishedhimthebest.
February 12, 2013 Draft Planning Board Minutes
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5.)
what
PublicMeeting–LandUseOrdinanceChange
The Planning Board will consider a draft submitted by the Ordinance Review
Committee for an Ordinance change to allow domesticated livestock
keeping/raising(minigoatsandsheep)
in residential districts and provide a
recommendationconcerningthedrafttotheCity Council.
Chair Willis welcomed everyone and asked Mayor Harnett or Councilwoman Pat Hart to
explain how this request for change to the Ordinance came about. Pat said that she and
Thom put it forward from the Council to the Ordinance Review Committee because they
had been approached by several people who wanted to raise small livestock on their
propertyinresidentialzonesandthecurrentordinancedoesnotallowit.TheCouncilfelt
it should be fully vetted and with public input, so they asked the Ordinance Review
Committee(ORC)toresearchand review the request for the change. Although they
sponsoredit,they said that they went on record as being neither for nor against it. She
thanked the Ordinance Review Committee for all of the work that they did on this. She
notedthatafterreviewbythePlanningBoard,itwillgobacktotheCityCouncilforreview
andadecision.Shemadementionofseveralpeople,bothonthePlanningBoardandinthe
audiencewhoservedontheORCandthankedthemfortheirwork.
ChairWillissummarizedtheworkthattheORChaddoneinpreparingthedraftbeforethe
Planning Board. She said that they had looked at ordinances in a number of Maine
municipalitiesandfromaroundthecountryandalsohadreceivedalotofinformationfrom
MaineFarmTrust.TheORCmemberswentthroughallofthedataandtriedtocomeup
withanordinancethatwouldallowforthekeepingandraisingofcertainsmallanimalsin
residentialdistrictswhileprotectingneighboringlotswithsetbacks.Theylookedatallof
the issues that should be covered and decided that the Brunswick model was the most
complete.Fromthatordinance,theymademodificationstocomeupwiththedraftthatis
now before the Planning Board. She explained that the three documents in the Planning
BoardpacketsaretheORCdraftshowingmark‐ups,theORCdraftwithmark‐upsaccepted
and the ORC draft as it would fit into the Land Use Ordinance, removing things such as
kind of feed, shelter, etc. that the animals would need, as they are not land use issues.
Thoserequirementscouldgoinanotherdocumenttogowiththelicense.ChairWillisthen
readthroughthefulldraft.
ChairWillisopenedthemeetingforpubliccomment,askingthoseinfavortogofirst.
Marcina Johnson remarked that the process had been very good. She noted that many
peoplecametoherhometoviewtheareawherehergoatsareasdidstafffromthe Maine
Department of Agriculture, Gardiner’s Animal Control Officer, the Code Enforcement
Officer (many times) and a member of the Goat Association. She said that they all
seemedimpressed.Thegoatsarenon‐violentandnotaggressive.
Wendy Seremet, an abutter said that she was a little nervous at first because of the
possibilitythattheremightbeanodor.Shesaidshenotedthather150lb.labwasworse
thanthegoatsandshedidnotsmellanythingfromthegoats.Shesaidtheyarepets–she’s
beeninthepenandsheenjoyswatchingthemandhearingthembleat.Shesaidthatshe
has found nothing that would be detrimental to the neighborhood. Pam Mitchel asked if
February 12, 2013 Draft Planning Board Minutes
4
herlotwasadjacenttotheJohnson’slot.Wendysaidthatherlotabutsthewholelengthof
theJohnson’sproperty.
JudyDorseysaidthatthefocusinthenewspaperhasbeenonthegoats,whataboutsheep.
ChairWillissaidthatotherswillspeakonthesheep.
Veronique Vendette said that she lives on Brunswick Av in the High Density Residential
Zone and she has 3.6 acres of land. She is trying to live as sustainably as possible. She
wouldlike1–2sheeptomowthegrass,eatfallenapplesandforherandherfamilytoeat
the meat and use the wool. Pam Mitchel asked if the sheep would be less than 100 lbs.
Veronique said yes, since they would be keeping them only during the growing season.
JudyDorseyaskedifshehadhadsheepbefore.Veroniquesaidno,butshehadresearched
them.Shenotedthatthesheepwilldefecateonthegrassanditwillbeabsorbedintothe
groundwithinsevendays.
Gloria Haley lives on Clinton St behind the Johnson’s. She said she had been to see the
goatsandshedidn’tsmellanyodors.
HildaWhitmorelivesonClintonSt.behindtheJohnson’s.Shesaidthatshehasnotedthe
goatscomingoutofthehouseandnotfromthecellar.Shehaslivedthere28years.Thisis
acity,notatown.Dogsandcatsshouldbeallowed,butthereshouldbealimit.Shedoesn’t
lettheneighborskidsovertoherplacebecausetheyaskforfood.Shelivesonthefurther
side of her duplex and her sister on the other and feels that these are too close to her
sister’shouse.ShesaidthattheJohnson’sdon’thavethatmuchroom.Shethinksthegoats
arelivinginthehouseandshouldbeoutside–it’scruelty.
Geraldine Rideout lives on Ash St. She said that the lots are not that big and she is
concernedwhatitwilldotopropertyvaluesandwhatifthegoatsgetloose.
CarlPerry,ownerof23‐25ClintonSt.andisthelandlordtoHildaandJanice.Hesaidthat
theyhaveexpressedthattheysmelledodor.Hecametonighttofindoutwhatisgoingon.
Heisconcernedaboutthepropertyvalue,thewelfareofanimalsandthesmalllots.Hehas
notsmelledanyodor.
Chair Willis explained that the City Council will make the policy decision on this. The
Planning Board is reviewing the draft as it relates to land use and will give a
recommendationasisorwithmodificationsfororagainstthedrafttotheCityCouncil.
RonCondonaskedifthecurrentownersoflivestockwouldbegrandfathered.ChairWillis
saidno.
Robert Rapalos lives on 51 Pierce St. He said it’s not just about the Johnson’s – it’s the
wholecity.Hesaidthisisatestcaseforthisandisconcernediftheamendmentpasses,
whatwillbetoleratedinthefuture–horses,etc.Heisforenhancingthelivabilityofthe
cityandsustainability.Heisconcernedaboutthelivestockexpansioninresidentialzones
andreferredtotwoissuesinthecity–thechurchwiththerubberroofandthegasstation
near theCommonandnothingcanbedoneaboutthem.Heisconcernedaboutsettinga
February 12, 2013 Draft Planning Board Minutes
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precedent introducing livestock into residential areas which could create the optimum
condition for vermin. During the summer of 2010, after a homeowner decided to raise
chickens on a street below his, rats worked their way up to Pierce St from that farm. If
approved,whatifsomeonewantstohaveaminiaturepony.Hemovedintothetownfor
thestabilityacityprovides.Heasksthattheynotmakeadecisioninhaste.
RalphClarklivesonPierceSt.HesaidhegrewupinAroostookCountyandeverythingthat
Mr.Rapalossaidistrue.HesaidtheladyonBrunswickAvwith3.5acreswantingtohave
sheep‐hecouldlivewiththat.Hesaidthatthisissueisabsolutelygoingtoblowrightup.
Therearebeautifulhomesintheresidentialdistricts.HelookedattheplaceonPlaistedSt
andtheyshouldn’tputanythingthere.Hesaidhe’sdisappointed.Since1956he’sclosed
morehousesinthecitythananyone.Thosepropertyownerswillgetscrewed.
Phil Barter lives on Brunswick Av. He said he has sold real estate for 37 years in this
community. He is concerned about property values. He said a barn doorcommitteehas
hadtoberesurrectedinthepasttorectifyazoningchangewithanotherzone.Whatkind
ofactivitydowewanttoallow.Hedoesn’tmindtheminigoatsonPlaistedStorBrunswick
Av, but what’s to prevent 22 homes wanting to have them. He looked at the standards
required. In the rural zone is one thing, but in the city, they may not be enough. He
wouldn’texpecttherestofthecommunitytoputupwithhisanimals.Hesaidthatwhat
theORCcameupwithisreasonablebutheseessomeissues.
Rob Lash lives at 7 High Holborn St. He asked about the outcome of other communities
thathaveallowedthis.ChairWillissaidthatinSeattle,overa5‐yearperiod,theyhavehad
only37applications–it’snotverypopular.Somemunicipalities’ordinancesdonotcover
this–therearenorestrictions.Robsaidthatit’srealistictobelievethatifpeopledonot
have experience with these animals; the neighbors will pay the price. They should have
sometypeofknowledgeaboutanimalstoraisethem.Hespokewithasheepfarmerwho
toldhimthatasheepcaneatthevegetationofffromtwoacresinoneweek.Anotherissue
is the boundaries – surveys would need to be done or you can’t accurately draw the set
backlines.Hisgeneralconcern–therealreasonzoningareaswerecreatedwastoprevent
what wouldn’t be good. What if a neighbor is negatively impacted – would the city be
liable?
JohnBurgess,arepresentativefromtheBoardofAppealstotheORC.Hesaidthatallofthe
concerns are legitimate. The ORC look at 36 communities and most have no ordinance
prohibiting livestock. Some of them are the most affluent communities in the state. Bar
Harborallowsitintheirordinanceandencouragesit.Chicagoalsoallowsit.Wehaveto
lookatGardinerandwhat’sbestforGardiner.TheORCworkedveryhardonthisandhad
somegood,honestinput.Theytriedtodowhatwasbestforthecity.
VeroniqueVendetteaskedwhatistheprocedureifthisdoesn’tpass–canthecitygocase‐
by‐case?ChairWillissaidno.
HildaWhitmoreaskedwhytheyarecallingitatown,it’sacity.JudyDorseyexplainedthat
atownversusacityistheformofgovernment.Hildasaidshedoesn’tagree.
February 12, 2013 Draft Planning Board Minutes
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Pat Hart said that she echoes what Mr. Burgess said and welcomes any input at the City
Councilmeetings.
7:47PM‐Hearingnofurthercomments,ChairWillisclosedthepublichearing.
NateMcKenna,aPlanningBoardrepresentativetotheORCsaiditwasatoughjob–notcut
anddry.Thereweresomanythingstolookatandalllotsaredifferent.Henotedthata
numberofthingscantakedownapropertyvalue–i.e.anuglyfence,dogs,etc.
Chair Willis said that when the issue came to the ORC, the members were asked if they
wantedanordinanceandtheywereinagreement–yes.Theydidalotofresearchbothin‐
stateandcountrywide.Theycoveredeveryissuefromvermin,unintendedconsequences,
propertyvalues,goodowner/badownerandwhowoulddecide.
David Cichowski, CEO said he looked at all of the issues. The amendment would require
4,000SFperanimalsothepropertywouldhavetohaveaminimumof40’x100’ofgrazing
areaand30’tothepropertylineand50’toanabuttingresidentialunitbeyondthat.Some
lotsmightnotbeabletohavelivestock.HenotedthatAugustaallowslivestockanywhere
unlessitcreatesanuisance.Hehasheardmorearticlesonthe6:00PMnewsaboutabuse
ofdogsthangoatsorotherlivestock.In2010,theCitycreatedthechickenordinanceand
therewerelotsofconcerns.Sincethattime,hisofficehasissuedbetween5–8permitsfor
chickensinthesebuiltupresidentialareasandhehasn’thadanycomplaints.
JudyDorseysaidsheisconcernedaboutthebiggerissue–qualityoflife.Sheandothers
are going through the Heart and Soul process and have done a lot of interviews with a
broad range of people and a lot of core values came out of that. The number 1 was to
protecttheneighborhoods.Shedoesn’tknowhowmanypeoplewerenotifiedaboutthis
meeting.
ChairWillissaidthattherehavebeenanumberofarticlesintheKJaboutthisaswellas
legaladsinthepaper.
JudyDorseysaidthatsheisn’tsureshe’sgoingtovoteonthis.Ifitweretobeexpanded,
putinarequired1acrelotorhighersetbacks,itwouldstopitindenseareasandallowit
onlargerlots.
RonCondonsaidthathelooksatthebigpicturetoo.Hefeelsthatthecomprehensiveplan
should be done first and the ordinance would followthat. HeagreeswithJudyandfeels
thatthisisnotcommunitydriven–it’saone‐houseissueanditneedstobedealtwithfrom
thecomprehensiveplandown.Itwouldhavetobeaprettygoodsizedlottoaccommodate
livestock.
ChairWillisnotedthatitwasnotasinglehouseissue–thatatleast3propertyownersin
District2hadrequestedthereviewandtheissueofsustainabilityhasbeenbroughtupby
othersinothermeetingsaswell.
February 12, 2013 Draft Planning Board Minutes
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JudysaidthenumberoneissueasapersonlivingintheHighDensityResidentialDistrictis
vermin. Nate McKenna said it was not an issue in what the ORC looked at and it hasn’t
beenanissuewithchickens.Judyaskedwhatgoatsandsheepate.MarcinaJohnsonsaid
thatthegoatseathay,grainandgreens.Veroniquesaidthatsheepeatapples,saltblock
andgrass.PamMitchelsaidthatgrainiswhatattractsvermin,nothay.DavidCichowski
saidthathehasonlyhad1complaintaboutratswithrespecttochickens.Theownerwas
puttingouttoomuchgrainatatimeandthechickensweren’teatingitallup.
Ed Lawrence said he agrees with Ron. He sees it as fighting fires ‐ changing ordinances.
Youcan’tmakeitaperfectworldforeveryone.
DavidCichowskiaskedforaclarification‐iftheyhadaduplexcouldtheyhave4animals.
PamMitchelsaidno,itsaysamaximumof2animals.
Judy Dorsey said it would be an enforcement burden – enforcement issues are not being
dealt with now. Chair Willis said that the ORC looked at this and spoke with the Animal
Control Officer, the City Manager, the CEO and the Police Chief to look at who would be
responsibleforwhatpartofenforcement.
PatHartsaidthattherewasamansittingbesideherthathassinceleftandhewanteditto
beconsistentthroughoutthecityastherearesmalllotineveryzone.
Carl Perry said that he works for the Maine Department of Agriculture and said that the
Department uses a point system and sets standards for grazing, units, etc. He suggested
thattheyconsultwiththem.
PhilBartersaidthathefeelsthesetbacksshouldnotbeanylessthantherequiredhome
business setbacks. He said that they are writing an ordinance to accommodate a small
numberofpeoplethatwillaffectalotofpeople.Heisconcernedaboutfencing.
Pam Mitchel said she would like to see the setbacks match the chicken setback
requirements.
PatHartsaidthatwhatevertheydecide,shewouldliketohavefindingoffactastheCity
Councilwillneedtheinformation.JudyDorseyaskedwhydotheyhavetogoforwardand
asked for a poll. It was 2 for and 4 against. Judy said she had another solution – put in
contractzoning–theytriedtodothatin2010anditdidn’tgo.Shesaidshethinksitdidn’t
gobecausetheCouncildidn’tunderstandit.PamsaidthatiswhattheORCdraftistrying
todo–thatitcanbeoktohaveacertainnumberoflivestockifthepropertymeetsthese
standards.Thedraftmightneedalittlemorework.Judysaidsheopposesitbecauseshe
thinksalotmorepeoplewillwantitandshecan’ttellhowmany.
Veroniqueofferedthattheytryitandseewhathappens.Theycouldmakeachangethat
wouldbefor1–2yearsandseeifitisaproblem.Judysaidthatcontractzoningwoulddo
that.
February 12, 2013 Draft Planning Board Minutes
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6.)
Chair Willis said that she would like to give the City Council our expertise and set a
framework.
Pam Mitchel made a motion that we proceed with this document, modify it
appropriatelyandsendittotheCityCouncil.Therewasnosecond.
ChairWillisaskedifsomeonewouldmakeanothermotion.Noonethatcouldmake
amotiondid.(theChaircouldnotmakeorsecondamotion).
OTHER
ADJOURN
PamMitchelmovedthatweadjourn.RonCondonsecondedthemotion.
Vote:6infavor.0opposed.Motionpassed.
Meetingadjournedat8:40PM
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