TYNWALD COURT.
Douglas, Tuesday, June 6, 1944.
Present: The Governor (Vice-Admiral
the Right Hon. the Earl Granville, C.B.,
D.S.0.). In the Council : The Lord
Bishop, Deemsters Farrant and Cowley,
the Attorney-General, Messrs J. R.
Corrin, J. F. Crellin, F. S. Dalgleish,
C. Gill, S. Norris, and R. C. Cain
(Receiver-General), with Mr J. N. Panes,
Government Secretary and Clerk to the
Council. In the Keys: The Speaker (Mr
J. D. Qualtrough, J.P.), Messrs T. A.
Quayle, J. Callister, F. H. Crowe, T. Q.
Cannel], A. J. Cottier, 3. W. Brew, T. G.
Bridson, J. L. Quine, J. H. L. Cowin, T.
Clucas, E. W. Fargher, Richard Kneen,
W. A. Kelly, J. J. McArd, G. H. Moore,
W. H. Alcock, A. E. Kitto, R. Q. Hampton, J. Kelly, A. J. Teare, and W. C.
Craine, with Mr R. G. Johnson, Acting
Secretary and Clerk to Tynwald,
INVASION OF EUROPE.—COURT
ENGAGES IN PRAYER.
The Governor: I think the Court will
agree with roe that since the invasion
on the Western Front started this morning, it . would be appropriate if I asked
the Lord Bishop to offer a special
prayer for Allied victory.
Members stood while the Bishop
offered prayer.
EXTENSION OF GOVERNOR'S TERM
OF OFFICE.—TYNWALD'S
CONGRATULATIONS.
The Speaker: Before the Court proceeds to the business on the agenda, I
should like on behalf of the House of
Keys to offer to you, sir, our most hearty
congratulations upon the announcement
made by His Majesty's Secretary of
State for Home Affairs that on his recommendation His Majesty the King has
been graciously pleased to extend your
term of office in the Isle of Man by
another year. I express ,the hope of us
all that the next year will be one of great
success in the administration of the
affairs of this Island. I hope, too, that
it may see not only the solution of the
comparatively minor troubles that affect
the Isle of Man in constitutional matters, but also the settlement of the great
strife at present raging in the world, and
that this next year will be Victory Year.
I hope, sir, that you will be endowed
with health and strength for your task.
May I add that we are pleased that not
only you but your gracious lady is to
stay with us, and we wish for both of
you every happiness. (Applause.)
The Bishop: I would like on behalf 14
the Legislative Council to second that
resolution, and in a quite unprepared
speech to say what real pleasure it gave
us to hear the announcement on Friday
evening that your term of office had
been continued, and to say how much we
appreciate. all you are doing on the
Island's behalf, and how truly we know
that you have the Island's interests at
heart. We do indeed hope and pray
that this added year may be the best
year of all. ("Hear, hear.")
The Governor: I thank the Court very
much for the way in which it has received the announcement of my extended period here. I must say that besides the pleasure it gives me to remain
in this delightful- Island and amongst the
Manx people, I should have been very
sorry to have gone before solid foundations, at least, had been laid for several
schemes which I should like to have
seen completed during my term, particularly such things as slum clearance
and better housing conditions—including houses for the agricultural labourers,
which also is for the benefit of agriculture itself—and such things as the
forthcoming spa, which will be of benefit
to the health of the Island, and many
similar matters which the war has prevented from going ahead during my
term of office, nearly the whole of which
has been spent in a time of war. My
wife, I know, would like me to thank you
on her behalf. She would be very
sorry to leave before we have finished
enjoying ourselves here. (Laughter.)
I thank you all very much. (Applause.)
Invasion of Europe—Court engages in Prayer.—Extension of Governor's Term
of Office—Tynwald's Congratulations.
442
TYNWALD COURT, JUNE 6, 1044.
GRIEVANCES OF FISHERMEN—
QUESTION BY THE SPEAKER.
The Speaker: May I ask a question of
which I have not had the opportunity of
giving notice, whether your Excellency
has any statement to make on the
grievances which I have represented to
your Excellency as being felt by the
fishermen of this Island?
The Governor: Not yet. I saw the
fishermen myself this morning, outside
this building, and I am having inquiries
made. I hope that shortly I shall have
some information on this subject, and if
so I will let the Court know.
LOAN OF £750,000 TO BRITISH
GOVERNMENT.—ACKNOWLEDGMENT FROM H.M. TREASURY.
The Governor: The following letter
has been received from Sir Alexander
Maxwell, Under-Secretary for Home
Affairs:—
Home Office, Whitehall.
9th April, 1944,
Mil directed by the Secretary of State
to refer to your letter of the Zod March
(27745/11/21) COneerning the resolutions of
Tynwald for the payment of £750,000 as a loan,
free of interest, to His Majesty's Government,
towards the cost of the war, and to say that
he has been requested by the Lords Commissioners of His Majesty's Treasury to convey
to the insular authorities the thanks of His
Majesty's Government for this loan.—I
sir, your obedient servant,
- A, MAXWEIJL.
Ths Government Secretary,
Government Offices.
Douglas, isle of Man.
COST OF PUBLISHING "ISLE OF MAN
GAZETTE."—QUESTION BY MR
ALCOCK.
••
Mr Alcock asked the Governor: (a)
What was the cost of producing the
"Gazette" for the year ended 31st
December, 1943; and (b) what were the
gross receipts during the same period
from sales of the foregoing publication?
The Governor: The cost of publishing
the "Isle of Man Government Gazette,"
including the necessary indices for each
volume, in the year ended 31st December, 1043, amounted to E653. The receipts from sbles, etc., totalled £160. All
subscribers to Government publications
receive free copies. As the foregoing
does not give a complete picture of the
position, Tynwald is, I think, entitled to
the following information. In the said
year the cost of publishing Government
notices in the "Mona's Herald" and
"Ramsey Courier" amounted to .E768,
which; added to the nett cost of publishing the "Gazette," brought the total expenditure on this service to £1,261. If
similar notices to those published in the
two newspapers referred to had been
published in the "Isle of Man Times"
and the "Isle of Man Examiner" at 6s
per inch, the additional cost would have
been 21,456. At 11Is per inch, which
these two papers demanded, the additional cost would have been 42,426.
Mr Alcock: Is your Excellency aware
that the circulation of these newspapers
is at least a hundred times as much as
that of the "Gazette"?
Mr Fargher: Would it be possible to
include in the "Gazette" a concise statement, or a transcript, of any order made
by your Excellency? I will give one
instance which caused subscribers a lot
of running about. In the call-up of
women who were not registered in the
Island, certain women were excluded,
and the only way of finding out which
was to go to the police station. If the
information had been put in another
five lines of the "Gazette," the whole of
it would have been before the people
concerned,
The Governor: I will inquire and see
if there is any difficulty about that being
done.
The Speaker: Would your Excellency
consider publishing the important
notices, particularly those affecting
people in certain districts, in the newspapers which circulate in those districts?
A case was referred to in the "Isle of
Man Times" recently about the closing
of a road: and on inquiry I discovered
that the publication of an order affecting
people in the south of the Island had
taken place in a newspaper circulating
in the north.
Mr Alcock: These orders are certainly
not getting enough publicity.
REFUSAL TO GRANT A CATERING
LICENCE.—QUESTION BY MR
BRIDSON.
Mr Bridson asked the Governor: What
Grievances of Fishermen—Question by the Speaker.—Loan of £750,000 to British
Government—Acknowledgment from H.M. Treasury.—Cost of Publishing "Isle of
Man Gazette"—Question by Mr. Alcock.—Refusal to Grant a Catering Licence—
Question by Mr. Bridson.
TYNWALD COURT, JUNE 6, 1944.
443
justification Government Office have for
refusing .a permit to trade to Mrs Maddocks, of 4, Fort Street, Douglas, the
widow of two soldiers, and the mother
of two soldiers, who formerly had a
catering business in Port Erin and was
desirous of opening a small business in
Walpole Avenue, Douglas?
ALLEGED BAN ON EXPORT OF
MANX MANUFACTURED SALT—
QUESTION BY MR. ALCOCK.
Mr Alcock asked the Governor: (i) Is
His Excellency aware (a) that the Manx
Salt and Alkali Company, Ramsey, have
been banned from sending salt to Dublin;
and (b) that considerable cargoes of
salt have been shipped from Cheshire
The Governor: Catering establishment
licensing policy is based on considera- salt works to Dublin between the 16th
tions of the needs of the public. In the May, 1944, and the present date? (ii)
Is there any reason why the Manx comcase of Mrs Maddocks' application for a
pany—one of our small local industries
licence, no evidence has been forth—should be placed in a different
coming, in support of her application, of
consumer need, and private circum- category from Cheshire industries? (iii)
Will His Excellency please take up the
stances cannot be taken into account in
applications of this kind. Supplies of •matter with the Board of Trade in
London?
certain foodstuffs, and in particular of
fats, are limited, and to grant additional .
The Governor: I was not aware. of the
catering licences involves taking the
matters referred to by the hon. member,
necessary supplies from existing estab- and I will cause inquiries to be made
lishments. A change of policy recently
into the position.
made by the Ministry of Food to faciliMr Alcock: This is really a most seritate the return of certain classes of exous matter. I presume that the concern
traders to businesses which they have
which is now getting the trade is the
closed but not sold, is under consideration, with a view to its being put into
operation as early as possible. When
this policy becomes operative locally,
BILL SIGNED.
Mrs Maddocks will have a claim to prior
The Governor laid before the Court
consideration in connection with the
for signature the Workmen's Compensabusiness which she formerly carried on
tion (Temporary Increases) Bill.
at Port Erin. There are already two
cafes in Walpole Avenue,
ANNOUNCEMENT OF ROYAL
Mr Alcock: As a supplementary quesASSENT TO ACTS.
tion, when a person asks for a licence
The Governor announced to Tynwald,
to open a food shop, is inquiry made
in accordance with the terms of section
locally?
2 of the Acts of Tynwald (Emergency
Promulgation) Act, 1916, that the Royal
The Governor: The Douglas CorporaAssent was given to the undermentioned
tion were asked in this case.
Acts on the 17th April, 1944: (1) The
Mr Alcock: Very well. In Ramsey, I
Workmen's Compensation Act, 1944; (2)
can tell you of a very urgent and imThe Highway Amendment Act, 1944; (3)
portant case where the Commissioners
The Old Age and Supplementary Penrecommended that the shop should be
sions Act, 1944; (4) The Law Reform
opened, and the application was turned
(Frustrated Contracts) Act, 1944.
down, without any reason being given.
The Governor: I should require- notice
of that question.
Mr Alcock: There was a man who had
been in the habit of supplying fish and
vegetables to private houses, and was
not allowed to move to the opposite side
of the. street, where there were premises
in which he could sell in more hygienic
conditions.
PAPERS LAID BEFORE THE COURT.
The Governor laid before the Court
the following papers:—
Order and regulations made by the
Highway Board, entitled (1) The Motor
Vehicles (Authorisation of Special
Types) General Order, 1944; (2) The
Motor Vehicles (Construction and Use)
(Amendment) Regulations, 1944; (3)
Alleged Ban on Manx Manufactured Salt—Question by Mr Alcock.—Bills Signed.
—Announcement of Royal Assent to Acts.—Papers laid before the Court.
444
TYNWALD COURT, JUNE 6, 1944.
The Motor Vehicles (Construction and
Use) (Track Laying Vehicles) Regulations, 1944; (4) The Motor Vehicles
(Variation of Speed Limit) Regulations,
1944.
Report, dated 22nd May, 1944, of the
committee appointed at an informal
meeting of the members of Tynwald held
on the 25th day of April, 1944, relating
to Manx Constitutional Development.
Defence Regulations—(1) Order in
Council, dated 25th February, 1944, adding Regulation 55AA to the Defence
(General) Regulations (Isle of Man),
1939; (2) The Defence (National Service
(Armed Forces) Acts) Regulations (Isle
of Man), 1944.
The. Goods and Services (Price
Control) Act, 1941.—The Goods and
Services (Price Control) (No. 14)
Order, 1944 (Government Circular
No. 3550); The Goods and Services (Price Control) (No, 15) Order,
1944 (Government Circular No. 3562);
The Goods and Services (Price Control)
(No. 16) Order, 1944 (Government
Circular No. 3595).
Mental Hospital Board—Estimated
amounts to be raised by rate under section 7 of the Rates Act, 1923, and section
23 of the Cattle Diseases (Prevention)
Act, 1929, for the year commencing 1st
April, 1944.
Further interim report, dated March,
1844, of the War Committee of Tynwald
on post-war reconstruction, and in particular as to the position of the building
trade and apprenticeship thereto.
Report of the Isle of Man Harbour
Commissioners for the year ended 31st
March, 1944.
Reports of the Public Auditors on the
accounts of (1) The Common Lands
Board for the year ended 12th November, 1943; (2) The Isle of Man Fisheries
Board for the year ended 31st December.
1943; (3) The Isle of Man Publicity
Board for the year ended 31st December,
1943; (4) The Northern Water Board for
the year ended 31st March, 1944; and
(6) The Rushen Joint Fire Protection
Board for the year ended 31st March,
1944.
Report of the Mental Hospital Board
for the year ended 31st March, 1944.
Report of the Northern Water Board
for the year ended 31st March, 1944.
Report of the Health Insurance and
Pensions Board for the year ended 31st
December, 1943,
•
Isle of Man Customs Acts—The Additional Import Duties (No. 1) (Isle of
Man) Order, 1944 (Government Circular No. 3588); the Import Duties (Exemptions) (No. 2) (Isle of Man) Order,
1944 (Government Circular No. 589);
the Import Duties (Exemptions) (No. 3)
(Isle of Man) Order, 1944 (Government
Circular No. 3026).
DOUGLAS CORPORATION—PURCHASE OF LANDS AT WILLASTON.
The Mayor, Aldermen, and Burgesses
of the Borough of Douglas petitioned for
authority to borrow a sum not exceeding £13,700, at a rake of interest not
exceeding four per cent. per annum, to
enable the petitioners to purchase the
estate of Willaston, in the parish of
Onchan.—The Local Government Board
presented its report.
Mr Crellin: I beg to move that the
prayer of the foregoing petition be and
the same is hereby granted. I must
apologise to Your Excellency and the
Court for this report not having been in
the hands of members earlier. The
Local Government Board only heard the
application on Friday afternoon, and
since then we have printed the report,
and it has been printed very quickly. I
have not time to take the Court over
the figures, but we can assume, I think,
that they are correct, because in these
reports we have seldom, if ever, found
any figures wrong, despite their complicated nature. I think that at last the
Douglas Corporation appear to have
found a solution of their housing problem. (" Hear, hear.") The matter has
been delayed and delayed and delayed;
there have been various schemes and
various sites; but I think we must all
agree that the delay has been to the
good. If the Douglas Corporation purchase this Willaston estate, very few
people will be detrimentally affected,
and the whole lay-out of the town, particularly its appearance from the bay,
will not be in any way affected. The
Corporation have promised to leave as
Douglas Corporation—Purchase of Lands at Willaston.
TYNWALD COURT, JUNE 6, 1944.
many of the trees standing as possible,
and to work their scheme around them;
they have also agreed to give some protection to the inhabitants along the
Ballanard Road, where some rather nice
houses have been erected. Whether that
goes far enough or not, I do not know;
but we may presume that the Local
Government Board will see that the persons who have erected a very good class
of property on the Ballanard Road will
be protected. No doubt, as is stated in
the report, an application will be brought
in due course to have a portion of the
parish of Onchan included in the
borough. All sorts of complications will
eventually farise—sewers will have to be
laid, and so on—and it would appear
that a boundary extension is the only
solution. The price may perhaps appear
to be rather high. I must say that at
first sight it appeared to me to be on the
high side. But the rentals come to £345,
and if you capitalise that it is not really
a very dear property, particularly as the
levels and the general lay-out make it
very easy for adaptation as a housing
estate. Roads, sewers, and so on, can be
laid at a comparatively low cost. It is
expected that eventually 720 houses will
be erected, but it will not happen for
some time. The development of the
estate will be gradual, and no doubt
there will be a certain amount of moving
around of persons within the borough.
Some of the people who have been
housed in flats, for instance, will probably be moved out to this area, to enable areas to be pulled down and pro
vision made for people whose work is
alongside the quayside, so that they can
still be near their work. The Local
Government Board and this Court
realise the urgent need there is for
houses in and around Douglas, and I
think that if we can get started on this
estate, and some houses can be erected
on various places within the borougl
which have been mentioned, our troubles
will be practically over in the very near
future. The whole difficulty has been
acquiring land, and I think the Corpora' tion are to be complimented upon
making application to purchase this particular estate. There is a great urgency
for this scheme to be approved, because
one of the parties interested in the
estate lives. I understand, in Mexico,
and there will be all sorts of delays be-
445
fore the purchase can be settled. I aA
the Court not to put the matter off because of the short notice, but to accept
the report as it stands. Members have
all read about it in the Press, and everybody knows the circumstances, and I beg
to move that the Court give its approval.
Mr Teare: I second the resolution, and
endorse what the mover has said. This
scheme is the culmination of a great deal
of effort by the Douglas Corporation.
From time to time the question of finding sites has cropped up, and the Corporation were told that they could acquire sites within the borough, and not
trespass upon the areas of outside
authorities. The Corporation have done
everything possible; quite recently they
visited every possible site in Douglas, if
there were such sites, and in the neighbourhood of Douglas, and they came to
the conclusion that this was the most
desirable of them all. The lie of the
land is such that it will lower the cost
of building as compared with what it
would be in some of the other sites
which they inspected. Because of their
incline, some of these sites would have
been very difficult to build upon; in one
case, we should have had to build a
storey before we reached ground level.
This site lends itself to economical building. The cost of the land, £13,500 for
77Jj acres, works out at less than ninepence per yard. and any member of this
Court will see, I think, that the Corporation are not squandering money in purchasing desirable land at that price.
Land within a few yards of this has been
sold recently for more money, and if a
builder could have got hold of this site
he would gladly have given such a price.
The Corporation are to be complimented
upon securing it, Undertakings were
given to the Local Government Board
that the amenities of the district would
be preserved as far .as was at all possible.
A good class of property has been built
in this neighbourhood, and it is not the
intention of the Corporation to do anything that would destroy the amenities.
We shall be able to provide houses without anything of that nature occurring.
The Attorney-General: May I join in
congratulating the Corporation upon
their enterprise? They do seem to have
solved this very difficult problem. They
are bound of course, wherever they put
Douglas Corporation—Purchase of Lands at Willaston.
446
TYNWALD COURT, JUNE 6, 1944.
houses, to affect some property, and it
is fortunate that in this case the present
intention is to minimise any depreciation of the value of property in the
Ballanard road, where something like
£70,000 or £80,000 worth of a good type
of houses has been erected. I am just
wondering whether we should not get
that undertaking given more formally
than it is at present. What is contained
in the Local Government Board's report is simply the statement of the Town
Clerk that the intentions of the Corporation are quite honourable. I think that
this Court, in justice to itself and to
other persons, should have that in a
form which will be official, and will be
there for future reference. I suggest
that we pass the resolution with the addition of words something like this, "Subject to the layout plan and the scheme of
development being submitted to, and
approved by Tynwald, and carried out
as approved." I think that this is the
intention, and this addition would at any
rate secure that people whose properties
are going to a certain extent to be interfere with shall have the right to be
heard, and shall know that when the
time comes. What is more, I think the
Court would like to know how it is intended .to develop this part of the
borough of Douglas. It has been mentioned that the Development Board
would of course be interested in that
subject, but the Corporation have always
taken the view that they are not subject
to the Development Board.
Mr Craine: No.
The Attorney-General: I am afraid
they have. At any rate, it is an open
question.
The Speaker: Are the Corporation not
subject to the Development Board?
Mr Craine: They are.
The Attorney-General: Yes, but that is
not the view which the Corporation
have taken. It would be considered
when the application came before the
Court.
Mr Corrin: I second the amendment.
The relationships between the Development Board and the Douglas Corporation have been very friendly, but I think
it would be to the advantage, of both
parties if they could get together now
and agree upon the lay-out of this.very
valuable and.important property. Various local authorities have been furnished
by the Development Board with a questionnaire, with a view to finding out
what development Is intended, especially
in regard to housing, and we should be
very glad if the Douglas Corporation
would take this matter up.
Mr Teare: Does the Attorney-General
mean that the Corporation have to place
on a plan information of the type of
every house they intend to build?
The Attorney-General: No, the lay-out.
Mr Teare: A similar question was
raised when the Corporation sought to
purchase the Ballakermeen estate. The
Corporation submitted plans of what
was to be done with the estate, and because they could not show every house
they intended to build, the scheme was
turned down.
Mr Craine: I oppose the amendment,
and I base my opposition on the experience which, I am sorry to say, the Corporation have had in Tynwald. My
colleague for South Douglas has mentioned the 'matter of Ballakermeen. If
the Corporation had been permitted to
go on the Ballakermeen estate as they
wished, we should have had a wonderful
lot of houses there, with a beautiful layout, and some hundreds of people needing houses now would have been housed
then. What the Court is now asked to
do is not what is done in England. The
chairman of the Parks Committee of the
London County Council, Mr Coppock,
said to rue personally, "I have a free
hand whenever any land which we need
for London's 'green belt' comes into the
market. I can purchase it with full authority, up to the extent of £3,000,000."
I find that in England the Ministry of
Health leaves these matters entirely to
the local authorities, knowing that the
good sense of the men who comprise the
local authorities will lead them not to do
anything that will hurt the amenities •-.1'
their area. It looks to rue as if this
Court is not going to trust the Douglas
Corporation. .The Corporation have
given guarantees, and should not have
to take their pen and sign everything,
and say, "It shall be done in this way or
that." With all respect to this House,
the Corporation know what is for the
advantage of Douglas better than gentle-
Douglas Corporation—Purchase of Lands at Willaston.
TYNWALD COURT, JUNE 6, 1944.
men living in Jurby. You don't find the
members for Douglas interfering in
agricultural matters— (laughter) —because they know they haven't got the experience. I say that we should let Douglas work out its own salvation. The
Corporation are a responsible body, and
some faith should be placed in them, instead of our having every i dotted and
every t crossed.
Mr Cowin: May I ask the mover or
seconder of the motion for the adoption
of the report to enlarge on one small
paragraph. It was suggested that a
small portion of the estate might be set
aside for the erection of a crematorium.
Mr Teare: For some considerable time,
the Corporation have had under consideration the erection of a crematorium.
A site for such a purpose is hard to find,
and it has been• thought from time to
time that near the cemetery some lane
might be acquired. It will not be placed
in any position in which it might be
hurtful to the occupants of any house.
It is expected that if a crematorium is
erected, there will be what is called a
"garden of rest," where people can sit
and rest in the presence of their departed. I am sure that that would not
be in any way detrimental to the amenities of this estate.
Mr Cowin: I don't ask the question in
any spirit of criticism. To my mind the
erection of a crematorium in every district which has a growing population
such .as ours, is a very necessary thing.
The Governor: 'Crematoria are always
situated in pleasant surroundings. There
is a desire to choose the most beautiful
place possible.
Deemster Cowley: I feel a little difficulty in supporting the amendment if it
is going to involve serious delay in the
carrying out of this scheme. Before the
Corporation are allowed to proceed with
any scheme, they will have to prepare
plans for submission to the Development
Board as to the lay-out, and as they will
almost inevitably be coming to this
Court for financial assistance by Way of.
subsidy, this Court, or whatever committee of the Court is appointed to
examine the scheme, will have placed
before them the general lay-out of the
estate. It doesn't appear to be necessary to make any further provision than'
that, because the whole matter will have
447
to be considered when the scheme for
the actual erection of the houses comes
before the Court. I would like to join
other speakers in offering congratulations to the Corporation upon the excellent piece of work they have done in
securing this very valuable estate.
There is one paragraph in the report to
which I hope further consideration will
be given. It is stated that, according to
the Borough Surveyor, no additional
drainage facilities will be needed,
five hundred houses could be drained
through the present sewers, with the
transfer of certain surface water drainage in other districts. I hope the Corporation, in approaching this matter,
will take the wider view, and treat this
scheme as part and parcel of the extension of the Douglas boundary sewer.
The Corporation contemplate, according
to this report, the erection of a large
number of houses in the immediate
vicinity of Spring Valley. That will certainly require a new boundary sewer,
and it would be much better, I should
have thought, to have in mind the whole
question of sewerage, from the point of
view not only of the Douglas Corporation, but of the health of Douglas. by the
proper sewering of the immediate
suburbs, and to have regard to the surroundings of Douglas and the interests
of the Island as a whole. 1 feel sure
that if the Corporation takes this
broader view, they will not find the
Court unwilling to assist them financially, and to bear a very considerable
part of the cost. But I do not want it
to be considered that this is a scheme on
its own, hidebound, when there is an
important question to be considered also.
But to pin the Corporation down to a
definite lay-out would. I think, be a
mistake.
The Attorney-General: What do you
mean by "pinning them down"?
Deemster Cowley: I take it that the
amendment proposes that before they
start to build houses they must submit
to the Court their whole scheme of the
lay-out. Why do that, when we know
that they will have to come before the
Court again, when they ask for a subsicty? I have a very vivid recollection
of the case of Ballakerrneen, when the
Corporation were practically pinned
down to saying exactly what they were
Douglas Corporation—Purchase of Lands at Willaston.
448
TYNWALD COURT, JUNE 6, 1944.
going to do in the development of the
to the Development Board, the members
estate._ They were not able to do that.
of the public who may be interested
and missed one of the best opportunities
should have an opportunity of considerthey have ever had.
ing them before they are approved.
When they come to the Local Govern,
The Receiver-General: If the Corporament Board, it may be too late. It is
tion agree to deal with the frontage on
the lay-out about which information is
Ballanard Road, I think that should be
wanted. The Development Board sit in
sufficient.
committee. If I submit plans for a
The Governor: Had we not better hear
greenhouse, the public have very little
counsel for the Corporation?
interest; but it is a different thing with
a scheme like this, and people living in
Agreed.
the area are anxious as to what the
Mr R. K. Eason, advocate: I appear
Corporation will do with this area,
for the Corporation of Douglas, and
especially with regard to the frontage
I want to say that my clients think
area.
that it will make matters more difficult
Mr Teare: With regard to the frontage,
if the suggestion is carried out that we
the Corporation's idea is that on the
will have to come before Tynwald for
frontage facing Ballanard Road there
the lapproval of this scheme. I would
. will be a better type of house, and that
remind hon. members that nothing can
no workingmen's houses will be built
be settled without the consent of the
on it.
Development Board; the whole thing will
come before them—the general lay-out,
Mr Corrin: May I point out that the
the question of sewage, the type of
Development Board do hold public inhouse. etc. The matter will also come
quiries. Whether it will be wise to do
before Tynwald when the Corporation
so, or necessary in this case, is another
applies for a grant. I do most strongly
matter. Personally, I think it ought to
urge that the Douglas Corporation, nor
be left to the Corporation and the
any other local authority, should be tied
Development Board to be dealt with in
down before this Court would give
the ordinary way.
official sanction to a scheme. I do trust
Mr Norris: Is it advertised?
the Court will not impose any such
Mr Corrin: Yes, if necessary.
conditions.
Mr Hampton: Is it not the intention
The Attorney-General: The plans will
that the front to Ballanard Road should
be approved in private, before adjoinbe sold to other people to put houses on?
ing owners know.
—(A Voice: There is no guarantee.)—
Mr Eason: Is not the proper place for
Is not a strip 70 to 100 feet deep left to
any opposition when the plans come
put similar houses on • to those erected
before the Local Government Board?
in that neighbourhood? The houses already up cost about £1,000, and the
The Attorney-General: The plans will
whole scheme was that these should be
go before the Development Board withfaced with a class of house in keeping
out notice to anyone. They should have
with the houses already up. I have
an opportunity in Tynwald.
never yet been able to understand the
Mr Eason: The position is this. When
working of the Development Board. I
the plans are lodged, every member of
think the Corporation are very much the
the public has the right to go to the
greater to be trusted, and have more
Development Board and inspect them,
experience than the members of that
and they can, if they like, claim to be
Board. I think the amendment has
heard. They can also be heard before
much to commend it, and the suggestion
the Local Government Board.
that it will cause delay does not carry
Mr Cowin : If I follow what the
much weight, as building operations on
Attorney-General has said, he wants the
any large scale are not likely to take
public to have notice when the plans
place for two or three years after the
come before the Development Board.
war. For one thing, we will not be able
What I gather the learned Attorneyto get the building and other materials.
General wishes is that at the time the
In view of the danger which might be
lay-out of the estate is being submitted • caused to property in this neighbourDouglas Corporation—Purchase of Lands at Willaston.
TYNWALD COURT, JUNE 9, 1944.
hood, I think it would be best if the
amendment moved by the AttorneyGeneral was carried.
Mr Moore: I support the petition, and
I don't think there is any necessity to
have plans submitted to Tynwald. They
have selected many and many sites
which have been turned down, and now
the Corporation seemed to have discovered the ideal site, and yet members
are trying to raise various obstacles.
Speaking as a disinterested party, I
think the Corporation have made a
splendid business deal, and I think they
should have the backing of this Court
wholeheartedly. The question as to the
suitability of the buildings will be dealt
with by the Development Board and the
Local Government Board, and they can
see that certain plots are available for
better class houses. The Corporation
are not likely to do anything to lower
the valuation of property in their own
district. They are making a reasonable
request, and it ought to be supported.
They have been trying for years to get
ground, and now that they have made
such a splendid deal, they should be
encouraged.
Deemster Farrant: Is there any intention of making an application for the
extension of the boundaries?
Mr Eason: I am advised there will be.
Deemster Parrant: Will it follow the
suggestion of the Tynwald Court committee?
Mr Eason: I cannot give any assurance
on that. I am not in a position to deal
with that, only that they will ask for
an extension.
Mr Norris: I think that the Court have
to eongnatulate the Corporation in concluding an excellent agreement. Any
opposition comes down to one point—
that the property already erected on the
opposite side of the road will not be
prejudicially affected. It may be unless
guarantees are given. The Borough Surveyor and the Town Clerk have said that
it is the intention of the Corporation to
erect on the frontage to Ballanard Road
a similar class of house to that on the
south side. That was the assurance given
by the Town Clerk before the Local
Government Board, but that is not binding on the Corporation. He is not the
Corporation. The object of the AttorneyGeneral's amendment is to see that this
449
is carried out. Can we have an assurance now, that when the matter comes
before the DeveloPment Board they will
hold a public sitting, and see that the
owners of property on Ballanard Road
will get notice? All we want is for the
Development Board to advertise their
sitting when the matter is to be considered. There are representatives of
this Court on the Board, and I am asking them to see that these people get
notice. It is a very big scheme, and the
Corporation will be coming to the Court
and 'asking for a sum of money from the
Court. I think the chairman of the
Development Board should give an
assurance.
Mr Bridson: What is wrong with the
people of Douglas? In every case, when
they bring forward a housing scheme,
it is opposed. They were opposed when
they proposed to build on the land near
Government House, and the scheme
was knocked on the head; and
now these people in Ballanard Road
want this estate laid out in a
certain way. What is wrong With the
people? Douglas is overcrowded, and
yet all the schemes they bring forward
are knocked on the head.
The Attorney-General: Any suggestion
that my amendment is in any spirit of
hostility to the scheme is "tripe."
Mr Bridson: Tripe is a very good food.
(Laughter.)
The Attorney-General: I have been a
wholehearted supporter of re-housing.
The only question is to see that no unnecessary harm is caused to other people.
A good deal of this money will be found
by this Court.
Mr Clueas: Out of money earned by
Douglas.
The Attorney-General: Provided by
this Court.
Mr Bridson: On a point of order, the
Attorney-General has already made one
speech.
Mr Crellin: I am perfectly certain the
Town Council of Douglas will do the
right thing. The Town Clerk has given
us an assurance, and there is no need
for this amendment. The Corporation
will do the best, in their own interests.
Mr Cowin; The Development Board
have wide powers, but the owners should
Douglas Corporation—Purchase of Land at Willaston.
450
TYNWALD COURT, JUNE 6, 1944.
see the lay-out and the type of house
the Corporation propose to erect.
The amendment was then put and lost
in both the Council and the Keys.
In the Keys the voting was:—
For: Messrs Callister, Brew, Quine,
Cowin, and Hampton-5.
Against: Messrs Quayle, Crowe, Cannell, Cottier, Bridson, Cluoas, Kneen,
W. A. Kelly, McArd, Moore, Alcock,
Kitto, John Kelly, Teare, Craine,
and the Speaker-16.
In the Council the amendment was
lost by seven votes to three.
The resolution was carried.
CUSTOMS ACTS.—ORDERS
APPROVED.
The Attorney-General: I beg to move:
That he following orders made by His Excellency the Lieutenant-Governor under the
provisions of the Isle of Man (Customs) Acts
be and the same are hereby approved.:—
The Additional rmport Duties (No. 1) (181e
of Man) Order, 1944. (Government Circular No. 3568.)
The Import Dut.jec (Gxemptions) (No. 2) (Isle
of Ma-n) Order, 1944. (Government Circular
No. 3589.)
The Import Duties (Exemptions) (No. 3) (Isle
ol' Man) Order, 1944. (Government. Circular
No. 3626.)
Agreed.
LOCAL GOVERNMENT BOARD—
SALARY OF THE HEALTH VISITOR.
Mr Crellin: -I beg to move:—
That in terms of section 3 (7) of the Local
Government, Amendment Act, 1922, Tynwald
approves of the salary of the Local Government Board's. Health Visitor being fixed at
£270 per annum, rising by annual increments
of £10 to a maximum of £360. without war
bonus, with effect as from 1st July, 1943.
This brings the salary into line with
the Rushcliffe report.
Agreed.
PURCHASE OF LAND FOR
FORESTRY BOARD.
Mr Quayle: I beg to move:—
That the Treasurer of the Isle of Man be
authorised to apply from the funds standing to
the credit of the Isle of Man Accumulated
Fund a sum not exceeding £90 to enable the
Isle of Man Forestry Board to acquire by
purchase froth the ISfilntown Estates, Ltd., the
property known as "Sky Hill," situated in the
parish of Lezayre, and containing approximately 641 acres, for the purpoee of afforestation; such land to be vested in the Government
Property Trustees.
Agreed_
SCHEDULED MAIN ROADS—PEEL.
Deemster Cowley: I beg to move:—
Whereas His Excellency the LieutenantGovernor has declared that for the purpose of
section 4 of the Highway Amendment Act,
1930, the following road in the town of Peel
Shall be scheduled as a. second-clase road:—
Market Street-166 yards.
Resolved,—That Tynwald approves of such
declaration.
This is a small addition. The road
goes by the Old School from the
Promenade to the Market Square, The
road leading by the Old School to the
Marina Hotel has already been
scheduled, but that has been made a
one-way street to the Quay, and the road
proposed is one-way in the opposite
direction.
Carried.
The Court adjourned to 2-30.
GOVERNOR'S TERM OF OFFICE
EXTENDED.
The Governor: Before continuing our
business, I wish to inform the Court that
have received an official communication from the Home Secretary, which
reads as follows:—
My Dear Lieutenant-Governor,
I am glad to be able to inform you that the
King has now approved my recommendation
that your term of office shall he continued for
a further period of one year from the 30th
September next. This is on the basis, as you
under.stand, that the position will be subject
to review in the event of unforeseen circumstances arising.—Your sincerely,
HERBERT MORRISON.
FOULING OF FOOTWAYS—NEW
BYE-LAW PASSED.
The Mayor, Aldermen, and Burgesses
of the Borough of Douglas petitioned for
confirmation and approval of ,a bye-law
made by petitioners on the 12th April,
1944, to prevent the fouling of footways
by dogs, rescinding a bye-law made by
Petitioners on the 12th March, 1938,
approved by Tynwald on the 5th April,
1938.
— — —
Customs Acts—Orders Approved.—Local Government Board—Salary of Health
Visitor.—Purchase of Land for Forestry Board.—Scheduled Main Roads—Peel.—
Governor's Term pi Office Extended.—Foufing of Footways—New Bye-Law
Passed.
TYNWALD COURT, JUNE 6, 1944.
Mr Teare: I beg to move that the
prayer of the foregoing petition be and
the same is hereby granted. This is a
petition of the Douglas Corporation for
approval of a bye-law to deal with a
nuisance only too prevalent in the town.
A bye-law was submitted to Tynwald
some time ago dealing with this
nuisance. Many complaints have been
made from time to time to the Health
Committee of the Corporation about the
fouling of public footpaths by dogs, and
because of those complaints they submitted a bye-law for the approval of
Tynwald some time ago. That bye-law
made it an offence by a an owner of a
dog if he allowed his dog to foul the
public footpath while he was in charge
of the dog by having it on a lead. Also,
if the dog fouled a footpath while in
charge of some other person, that person was liable. When that bye-law came
before Tynwald, the learned Deemster
Farrant thought it did not go far enough,
and he thought the Corporation should
bring in a bye-law which would deal
with the question in a more thorough
manner, with the result that it was referred back, and to-day the Corporation
have submitted a new bye-law, which
reads:—
It, shall he an offence ior any dog or dogs to
deposit its. or their excrement on the public
pavement in any public street or public
The person or persons licensed to keep or
harbour a dog or dogs shall be deemed to be
the owner of such dog or dogs and shall be
liable to be proceeded against for a breach of
this bye-lawThe owner of such dog or dogs as hereinbefore defined shall be guilty of an 'offence
a4,,sinst this bye-law and shall be liable on
summary conviction to a. penalty not exceeding 40 .shiLlings.
No proceedings under this bye-law shall be
instituted against the owner until after the
31st day of March, 1945. •
I think every member of the Court
will agree, when walking about the
streets of the town, that there is still
need for a bye-law restriction. Many
owners of dogs simply open their doors
and let their dogs run loose, and they
go fouling the footpaths of the town.
Whether half the nuisance is caused by
dogs who have no owners, I am not prepared to say. When one walks about the
streets and sees numbers of dogs parading the town all the day long, one
wonders whether half the licence fees
451
are paid. But that is not the question
before the Court, which is simply approval of the bye-law. No proceedings
can be taken under the bye-law until
after 31st March, 1945, in order to give
notice to the owners of dogs, with the
possibility of training their dogs in
better manners. I did suggest on the
last occasion that the hon. member of
the Council (Mr Norris) might lend his
booklet on better manners. (Laughter.)
I move that the prayer of the petition be
granted.
Mr Alcock: Isn't every dog supposed
to carry an identity disc? They should
have them on their collars, otherwise
they are liable to be arrested and
destroyed.
Deernster Farrant seconded.
Mr Kitto: Before this is put to the
Court, I. would like to say that whereas
I personally agree that something will
have to be done with regard to the
question of dogs fouling the streets in
Douglas and other towns in the Isle of
Man, I do think, if we are to have a
regulation such as this, it would be just
as well to pass a regulation that no
person shall own a dog, because this
practically prohibits the ownership of a
dog in a town. I think something between these two orders could be arrived
at if the Corporation of Douglas and
the Lecal Government Board got together. I think we could get something
better than we have suggested here.
This practically prohibits the ownership
of a dog.
The Governor: In London it has been
the custom for two years, and the
ordinary fine is two guineas.
Mr Kitto: it is not so strict as this.
I lived for ten years in Edinburgh, and
there the bye-law is nothing like so
strict as this. Many dogs going about
the town of Douglas have no owners at
all, and I think it is high time something was done about it. It is dangerous, not only for people on the footpaths,
but for people driving about the streets
of Douglas. This clause concerns many
constituents of mine, and I have been
asked if a consultation cannot be arranged between the Corporation and the
Local Government Board to see if they
could not arrive at something more
reasonable to the dog owner and the
Fouling of Footways—New Bye-Law Passed,
452
TYNWALD COURT, JUNE 6, 1944.
people. I have to move that this be
referred to the Local Government Board
to consult with the Corporation to see
if something cannot be arrived at more
in favour of the dog owner.
Mr Alcock: I second that, because I
am sure I know three better ways of
dealing with the thing The first one is
to raise the licence fee for dogs to five
guineas per annum, and to anybody very
fond of dogs, that is not too much to
pay. The second method is one adapted
just before the matter became a perpetual nuisance, boys being employed to
go round with a tin, a scoop, and a
brush in one town, and the price the
Corporation got for the manure more
than paid the wages of the boys. The
third method is that a vigorous roundup should be made of all dogs in the
Island to make sure that they are
licensed, and those that are not should
be destroyed. There are five times too
many dogs in the towns and villages of
the Isle of Man at any time. Those are
three methods by which you can exterminate the nuisance, or at least
minimise it, so I second the amendment.
Mr Crellin: I do hope the Court will
not carry the amendment, because it is
just absolutely a waste of.time to have
any more conferences on this matter.
Let us try it out and see how it works.
I do not see how.any conference can go
very much further. Let the Corporation,
who have given a great deal of thought
to the matter, try out the bye-law. If
it is a •failure, then we shall have a
conference.
Mr Bridson: At one time dogs used .to
be kept in the town of Douglas, and
their numbers were such a nuisance that
the Corporation prohibited the keeping
of dogs within the town boundaries. I
submit that to pais this bye-law is
similar to that You are passing a byelaw which will render everybody who
owns a dog liable to be brought before
the magistrates at quite frequent intervals, and be fined various sums. The
Corporation are trying to legislate
against the laws of nature, and it is no
use. So long as you. have dogs, they
will be .a nuisance, and the logical thing
is to pass .a bye-law prohibiting the
keeping of dogs within the borough of
Douglas, and everyone will know where
they are. If you pass this, there will be
an endless queue of people in Athoi
Street, with disputes over dogs, and you
will have to stop all people keeping dogs.
I give notice of a further amendment.
Mr Crowe: I would like to say a word
in defence of the dogs, or in defence of
the owners. If I understand the law
correctly, no person is allowed to own a
dog without having it licensed, and I
would like to know what responsibility
the law places upon a person who takes
out a licence. If they are granted a
licence, there should be some liberty or
privilege given to that dog. The owners
consider that they should summon all
those people who complain about the
dog—I am not in favour of this business
for a moment—and see if they would
go into a house and clean out twenty
or thirty cattle, especially at this time
of the year. I think there should be
some privilege or responsibility pointed
out to them when they take out a
licence. I think it would be most unfair to dog owners, many of them old
men and women, who have a dog as a
companion and would have to do away
with it. I think it would be very hard
indeed.
The Court divided on the amendment.
The voting in the Keys was:—
For: Messrs Quayle, Callister, Crowe,
Cannell, Alcock, Kitto, Hampton,
and John Kelly-8.
• Against: Messrs Cottier, Brew, Enidson, Quine, Cowin, Clucas, Kneen,
W. A. Kelly, McArd, Moore, Teare,
•
Craine, and the Speaker-13.
The' amendment was lost in the Keys,
and lost unanimously in the Council,
and it fell.
Mr Bridson: I give notice that I intend to move an amendment to refer the
matter back to the Corporation, asking
them if they will bring in a bye-law to
entirely prohibit the keeping of dogs.
Deemster Farrant: The thing is ludicrous. They have no power to do that.
The motion that the bye-law be approved was carried without a division.
ESTABLISHMENT OF SPA—VOTE
FOR EXPENSES OF COMMISSION.
Deemster Farrant: I beg to. move:—
That the Treasurer of the Isle of Alan he
authorised to apply from the current revenue
Establishment of Spa—Vote for Expenses of Commission.
TYNWALD COURT, JUNE 6, 1944.
of this Isle, during the year eliding list
\Iareli, 1545, a sum not exceeding £1,050 for
tlw purpose of defraying the prelimi»ary eNpetise$ of the commission appointed by His
Excellency the Lieutenant4loverllor to 'nvestigate and report on the possibilities of
establishing a spa with brine baths and a
clinic M. this .Island for the treatment of
rheumatism and other complaints and as to
the best practical means to carry out such
A project, and for the provision of the necessary finances for such Purpose.
453
would be, especially something which
would be at our very door. Everyone
knows now there have been borings for
coal over hundreds of years, including
—I wish to apologise to the hon. member for Garff—one which was sunk in
Ballasalla. I am afraid I was very incredulous when it was mentioned some
• time ago. However, coal failed, but as
a result of the borings that were made
in the north of the Island, they eventuThis motion has arrived quite lately,
ally came upon this huge area of rock
not in time to include it on the ordinary
salt 300 feet below the surface, and
agenda. The Court will be aware that
roughly about five square -miles. The
His Excellency has appointed a commisadvantage of this particular bed, and 1
sion to go into the question, which has
dare say other beds, was that the more
been the subject of debate practically
you take out of it, the more there is,
all my lifetime, and from time to time
because as it melts away the rock, so
it has been taken up and debated,- not
there is a larger area to he melted, and
only by the people concerned, but also,
therefore there is enough rock there to
notably in the time of the late Sir Claude
provide the whole world, and there is
Hill, under Government auspices. Great
enough brine there to make it pracefforts were made, with the assistance
tically impossible to die out. For over
of the Ministry of Health, to bring the
40 years the brine has been worked by a
matter to fruition, but there were then
company, as everybody here knows. It
obvious difficulties which, fortunately
was a commercial proposition, fairly
for us, do not prevail now. Particularly
successful, but formed on a very small
there was the question of. transport at
basis with a very small capital; but it
that time. You could come solely by sea,
worked, and worked well. The brine
and there were difficulties in connection
turned out to be excellent, but owing lo
with people coming over, land more parthe absence of capital, of course, this
ticularly in recommending people to
company can't develop it to the extent
come for two or three days. Fortunof getting a really profitable return.
ately, those difficulties no longer exist
From time to time discussions were
with the coming of air transport. Now
going on as to whether it would be posa: patient can be brought with no insible to develop this brine for the benefit
convenience by air transport, which no
of the Isle of Man, and in an analysis
doubt will develop very considerably
taken by an expert from London as long
after the war. Still more important, the
ago as 1932 it was found to be 5 per
doctors and specialists who are attending
cent, stronger than anything they had in
these persons can be over, and go back
England, and also stronger than anyagain in the morning, without losing
thing they have on the Continent—at
any particular 'amount of time. There
any rate, quite as strong, something Like
are other advantages, too, which we
30 per cent. sodium chloride. Brine, of
have at the present moment, and which
course, ever since the days of the
I need not go into. I need only refer
Romans, has been uSed in certain parts
you to the fact that at the end of the
of the Continent for certain complaints,
war it is almost certain that various
and found to be very successful. it has
spas with brine baths, where patients
an effect which has been described to us
were accustomed to go, will be at any
scientifically, and with which I need not
rate out of action for probably two or
trouble this Court. We had the adthree years after the war. The number
vantage of having before us a witness
of English people, and Americans and
who has had nearly 20 years' experience
others, who resorted to the Continental
of baths of this kind in Southern Austria
spas and carried good English money
and Czecho-Slovakia, some in Germany,
over there, and spent it in those
and -some in- France, I think. This
cointries, is astonishing. . I visited
gentleman actually had a clinic, supMessrs Cooks when they had their head
plied with brine, where patients were
office in London, and I realised then
treated, and people came from all over
the Continent. Now, the Commission
what a great and profitable traffic it
Establishment of Spa—Vote for Expenses of Commission.
454
TYNWALD COURT, JUNE '6, 1944.
have had a couple of sittings, and they
devoted themselves first of all to. finding
out what this brine was, where it was,
what it would heal, and whether it was
a practicable proposition, and on these
things we obtained full satisfaction. We
then took evidence and also went back
on the records to learn of the visit of the
Ramsey Town Commissioners to the
Droitwich brine baths, and what the result was. It was thought that if we
took up the scheme and provided something better than anything else in the
land to-day, we need not fear competition so far as Droitwich was concerned,
But this involves money, quite a considerable amount of money, and there
will have to be Government help in
some way. It will have to be a postwar scheme. We made up our minds
on that. I would like to say this for my
colleagues on the Commission, although
we haven't passed any resolution on the
subject, that we feel that this is e scheme
which we must do properly or leave
alone. If we make up our minds that it
is a practicable proposition, we must
spend the money. We must not have a
niggardly scheme, something which is
half this and half the other. If you are
going to establish a business you must
go all out to make yourself popular.
A spa consists of two classes of buildings—the spa proper, where the persons
go and pay for a bath, a brine bath or a
mud bath, whatever it might be. You
have all these according to what your
doctor prescribes. Then you go back.
Then, in addition, there is a clinic for
persons who are in a more serious condition. There they live in. It is a kind
of hospital, a first-class temporary hospital, not under hospital conditions, but
under conditions which make you feel
happy and cheerful as far as your pain
will allow you. It is recommended by
doctors, psychologically, and it is part cf
the cure.
Mr Fargher: How many free places
will there be?
Deemster Farrant: You have your outpatients and the others who stay there.
Another part of the scheme is important, not so much with regard to the
actual provision of the spa treatment as
to the provision of accommodation for
those who come to receive it. You
must have first-class accommodation,
first-class hotels; those who come will
expect it. There is a system by which
organisations say, "If you will provide
first-class accommodation, we will mark
you as an hotel of the first class," and
similarly with hotels of the second and
third class—in much the same way as
has been done for a long time by the
Royal Automobile Club and Automobile
Association. By that means you bring,
as it were, moral compulsion upon .
hotel-keeper to equip himself to suit the
requirements of the public. To obtain
hotels of the most modern type, involves
that we must have some plan; we must
have first-class architects to provide
them. There are not many architects in
England, I should imagine, who have
had the experience which would qualify
them for this; they are good architects
for ordinary buildings, but probably
they haven't a great experience in this
Our idea is that
particular direction.
we should have a competition, with
prizes, and then we shall be able to ,
choose amongst the plans, which is the
best. In addition to that, it must be
very advisable, before launching a
scheme like this, that we should have
the support of experts of national fame
—eminent doctors and so on. I believe
that one famous doctor has already expressed strong approval of the scheme;
and indeed, in Sir Claude Hill's time, :t
was felt that there was a great field for a
spa of this kind for people in the north
of England. So, we should have to
incur some expenditure, and it has been
thought, and His Excellency has approved of the idea, that we should bring
before Tynwald a token vote of £1,000.
It may not be necessary, of course, to use
all the thousand pounds. But it will
save the Court from having to be called
together to have little niggling votes
passed for this scheme and that, and will
enable work to be done while the Court
is in the summer adjournment. During
the next two months or so, I hope, we
shall .be able to gather , sufficient information to be enabled to make a report to lay before Tynwald. I am as
satisfied as I ever was of anything in my
life that if this scheme can be made
good—there have been no difficulties in
the way yet, but they may turn up; we
shall deal -with them as they come—it
will be one of the best schemes, if not
the very best, for the promotion of the
Establishment of Spa—Vote for Expenses of Commission:
TYNWALD COURT, JUNE 6, 1944.
Island's interests tHaI has oCcurred in
my lifetime. We have concentrated on
our boarding-houses, and picked up a
great business in 'them, but that lasts a
very short time, and it is a very restricted class for whom we cater. This
scheme will take. in a new class, a
better-off class; people who will bring
their families and their friends, and
whose stay will not be restricted to two
or three weeks in the summer. They
can come at any time of the year, and
receive their treatment at any time. It
will be, I believe, A real "June Effort"
and "September season extension effort"
together, and more besides. The benefits of it, whatever they may be to this
particular district of the Island, will be
felt by the Island as a whole. The spa
will be in or near Ramsey, but people
who are not actual patients will want o
see the beauties of the Island, they will
want the extra amenities which they can
get in Douglas—the shops and the
cinemas and so on—and they will travel
about. Then, think of the magnificent
advertisement. On the Continent you
see places which used to be little villages, occupied by peasants barely able
to earn their daily bread. Then. somebody finds a spring, or finds deposits of
mud, which 'have medicinal properties,
and you get an immense development.
• It is something which not only makes
for the health of suffering fellowcitizens, but makes an enormous improvement in the local standard of
living. Instead of peasants living, as I
say, in primitive conditions, you find
large towns filled with luxurious hotels,
resorted to by visitors from all over
Europe. I believe that something of
' that kind will be the result of this
scheme; I am certain, as I say, that it
will be one of the best things that has
ever happened to the Island, and will
place the Island on the map to an extent
which has never been known before. I
am sorry if I appear to be enthusiastic;
it is probably contrary to my age and my
dulling senses and my nature chilled by
disappointment—(laughter); but I do
feel like that. I feel that I may be able
to carry a torch for the Island, and
establish it as a first-class spa in the
British Isles. It is for that reason that
I ask the Court to vote for this resolution. We want His Excellency to have
power, while the Court is not sitting, to
authorise a fee for the services of an ex-
455
pert, and prizes for competition, and so
forth, without having to call the Court
together.
Mr Aicock: I beg to second the resolution. When I first came to the Island,
I was suffering from a very bad attack
of lumbago, and by making use of the
inadequate brine baths then 'available, I
was cured within a few days. That was
forty years ago next autumn. One ef
the greatest scourges that afflict mankind at the present time is rheumatism;
millions of hours of labour are lost
through it every year. Lately it has begun to affect young children, so very
seriously that heart disease in children
in the last twenty years'llas grown out
of all bounds. So, here is a chance
now; we have in the Isle of Man the
purest brine in the world. It is not only
pure from the standpoint of making
salt, but it contains things which have
distinct curative powers in diseases like
rheumatism. So far, the subject has
been played with and trifled with, but
the suggestion now is to turn the Island
into a great spa, and have, as near as
possible to the source of the brine, a
clinic where the 'administration of tho
baths, and the rubbing of the affected
joints, and so on, can be carried out. I
have been reading something written
three hundred years ago, about the
signs which tell of impending rain;—
When soot falls down the chimney's
crack,
Old Betty's joints are on the rack."
I believe that if we could get this brine
treatment in the Isle of Man, we can
laugh at rheumatism; it will be a thing
of the past. Some years ago the
National Health Insurance organisation
in England were so worried about rheumatism that they were going to start a
hotel in Droitwich, with six hundred
beds, and I am sure that when the war
is over they will take up that scheme
again.
The Attorney-General: What are we
going to du with the spa, then, when
everybody is cured? (Laughter.)
Mr Alcock: A few days ago I celebrated my 81st birthday, and I made up
my mind that after having struggled to
live until my 81st year, it should not be
very difficult to live on for the other
nineteen. (Laughter.)
Establishment of Spa—Vote for Expenses of Commission.
450
TYNWALD COURT, JUNE 6, 1944.
Mr Craine: I know the Court has received the resolution from the learned
Deemster with a great deal of sympathy,
but I think the resolution should not
pass without us in the Isle of Man
realising what this scheme may mean to
us, if it is properly developed. We know
that as an aftermath of the war, we are
going to have servicemen suffering from
the effects of exposure, and we may
have a nation of cripples. I don't care
where the spa is going to be; if it were
at the top 'of Snaefell, it would be for the
benefit of the Island. We see how spas
have been developed at places like Buxton, Harrogate, Droitwich, and else-.
where. Only recently I was reading the
story of Bernadette of Lourdes, and
while a great deal has been said about
miraculous healing due to divine intervention, any persons reading that book
will agree that the cures were due to the
miraculous qualities in the water from
the rock. I myself am a sufferer from
arthritis, and I know that this is mainly
a matter of chemical analysis. I am
satisfied that even with the effect which
this treatment will have on one's
nervous treatment, we are going to have
wonderful cures. In England there are
such baths, but many a man needing the
treatment may say, "I have a family; if
I go to, say, Droitwich, my family want
to go. to the seaside." He may be a
person who can take a holiday for 0
month or for six or eight weeks. In the fl
Isle of Man we should be unique; we
should have a spa by the sea, to which
people could bring their families. When
a town gets a source of business like
this, it often helps to pay the rates. You
have only to look at Altcar, where they
own a racecourse; the returns from the
racecourse pay more than half the public
expenditure of the town. . If we establish this spa, the ratepayers will benefit
and the national revenue will benefit.
We shall have visitors all the year
round. If we are going to do this, we
should do it well, and have the best experts possible, so that we may have the
best buildings and the best 'apparatus in
the country. The Isle of Man should
have the very best, and I hope we shall
go forward and have a right scheme, and
not half a scheme.
The resolution was carried.
GOVERNMENT PROPERTY TRUSTEES.—DIRECTIONS TO INVEST ON
BEHALF OF BOARDS OF TYNWALD.
The Attorney-General: I beg to move:
That the Government Property Trustees are
hereby directed to act as trustees for the
investment of the funds or auy Board of Tyn.
wald (not immediately required for the purposes of such Board) on behalf of such Board.
This is a very small matter. Owing
to war conditions, one at least of the
boards of Tynwald has a large sum of
money in hand. They have no power
under their own Act to invest it; but the
Government Property Trustees may be
trustees of any investment authorised to
Tynwald. This resolution gives them
the authorisation.
The Speaker: The Publicity Board,
which is the Board referred to, were not
aware that they had not such powers
until attention was drawn to the matter
in the report of the auditors.
The resolution was carried.
AGRICULTURAL MARKETING ACT
ADVISORY COMMITTEE.—APPOINT. MENT OF MEMBER.
The Governor announced to Tynwald
that he had nominated Mr George Higgins to represent consumers on the Ad-,
visory Committee for a further term f
one year from the 23rd June, 1944, in
accordance with section 24 of the Agricultural Marketing Act, 1934.
The Attorney-General moved that
Tynwald approve the nomination.
Mr Alcock: Is this the committee that
is responsible for the extraordinary
shortage of food in the Island?
The Governor: No, it is Mr Hitler.
(Laughter.)
Mr Alcock: Is this the committee that
says how many animals are to be killed,
and do they get returns of the population of the Island? The position, I can
assure your Excellency, so far as meat
is concerned, is most deplorable.
Nobody is getting two shillings' worth of
meat, nor are we likely to get it, either.
Then, the places where there is a chance
of getting a few sausages-90 per cent.
of which is made of bread—are shut
at the same time as the butchers' shops.
You can go into a pork butcher's shop
Government Property Trustees—Directions to Invest on behalf of Boards of
Tynwald.—Agricultural Marketing Act Advisory Committee—Appointment of
Member.
TYNWALD COURT, JUNE 6, 1944.
and buy pork pies, but you cannot buy
sausages, not between Tuesday and Friday. If this is the result of the advice
given by this Advisory Committee, the
sooner they are salted, the better.
Mr Teare: Perhaps they had better be
"salted" in the brine which we have just
been discussing. (Laughter.)
The nomination was approved.
WAR BONUS TO CIVIL SERVANTS.—
COMMITTEE APPOINTED.
The Court was to consider the following resolutions, of which notice had
been given respectively by Deemster
Cowley and Mr Fargher:That a committee of Tynwald be appointed
to review the position of Manx civil servants
and officers of Boards of Tynwald as to war,
bonus in. the light of the recent amendnients
to the conditions attaching to such bonuses in
the United Kingdom, and report to this Court.
Whereas many advances in wages and
salaries have taken place within this Isle in
all branches of industry:
Aud whereas no overtime and no bonns ii
paid to the senior members of the Civil
Service;
And whereas a number of civil servants have
been appointed since the outbreak of war:
Res.olved That in the opinion of Tynwald—
(a) all civil servants appearing in the Civil
List shall receive arid be paid an.additional amount of their salaries amounting to 20 per cent, or the existing war
bonus, whichever is the greater, and the
figures so arrived at. shall be the basic
salary;
II)) the 20 per cent. addition shall not apply
to any civil servant appointed after the
let day of April, 1943;
(e) the designation Civil List shall include
the Attorney-General and the Demisters
of. this Isle;
(d) the amount payable to arty civil servant;
whether paid by the Insular Governinsmt
and./or the Imperial •GovernMent, shall
not exceed the amount which would be
payable under paragraph (a) hereof.
Mr Fargher: Being most anxious that
this subject should be dealt with, I am
quite prepared to move that the whole
matter be referred to a committee of
Tynwald. That will save a lot of
speechifying to-day, and in the end the
report will go before the Finance Committee.
Deemster Farrant: A committee is
what Deemster Cowley wants. We can
take the two resolutions together.
457
Mr Fargher: Then we can 'appoint our
committee without any discussion.
Deemtter Cowley: I don't want to
take up the time of the Court, because
there are important matters still to be
discussed. The whole object of my
resolution, which was originally tabled
as an amendment to a resolution moved
by the Speaker to rectify some discrepancies which had been discovered
under the last resolution of Tynwald On
this subject, was to have the circumstances examined which have arisen
since the 'civil servants received their
bonus. As the Court will be aware, the
scale of bonus, and the limits up to
which bonus may be paid, have been
changed at least four times in England
since this Court reviewed the matter.
There is now a simple system in England, by which bonus amouting to RA
per week for men, and a little less for
women, is paid to every civil servant
earning up to £1,000 a year. That is
the result of certain changes which have
been Made with the approval of the
British Treasury. That there is a feeling of uncertainty and dissatisfaction
among our civil servants, I know, and I
think that if a committee were appointed which would review all- that has
happened since our 1943 committee was
appointed, there would be a considered
opinion, and a scheme, to lay before the
Court.
Mr Crellim Could other salaries be included under this resolution? Owing to
the Rushcliffe report, nurses' salaries
have been considerably increased, and
they will within four or five years overtop some of the salaries given to the
Local Government Board's inspectors.
The nurses will get more than many of
the civil servants, or at any rate more
than some of the servants of the Boards.
Mr Fargher: Deemster Cowley is dealing with a matter that comes very much
within the lines of what I was going to
argue. I was going to argue the question of the scales of salaries in the light
of the report which has been referred to
by the hon. Member of the Council Mr
Cre)lin. There is no doubt in my mind
that the civil servants in the Isle of Man
are underpaid, from the bottom to the
top. I don't want to labour the question, but take the position of the judges
of the High Court—start from that posi-
War Bonus to Civil Servants—Committee Appointed.
458
TYNWALD COURT, JUNE 6, 1944.
tion, and go 'down. Civil servants are
not allowed to carry on any kind of
trade or calling in addition to their
Government service; they give their best
services to the country, they are limited
in the number of the years in which they
are allowed to remain in their posts;
they retire on pension, and the pension
is fixed in relation to their salaries—
salaries which nowadays are rather on
the low side. I suggest that one committee should deal with both resolutions
before the Court, should take up the
question of war bonus for everyone and
at the same time report on the question of basic salaries. There are people
in business posts in the Isle of Man—
take officials of insurance companies,
for example—who get salaries of £800
or £.900 per year. A man who works
just as hard and whose work is just as
ful of intricacies, is employed by the
Government at £500 per year. We
have taken a wrong view of things, and
I feel that a committee should deal with
the question of salaries in every branch
of the Manx governmental service, in
the hope that the scheme would also be
operated by the local authorities. I
would ' second the resolution which
Deemster Cowley has tabled, but I wish
he would agree to the committee dealing
also with the matters which have been
mentioned by me.
Deemster Cowley: I was going to suggest that we should carry the first
resolution, amended as follows:—
That a committee of Tynwald be appointed
to review the position of Manx civil servants
and officers of Boards of Tynwald as to
salaries and war bonuso, in the light of the
recent amendment to the conditions attaching
to such salaries and war bonuses paid in the
-United Kingdom and report, to this Court.
Mr Alcock: Would that include the
coroners? It is a crying shame that
men with a responsible position like that
are getting £60 per year.
Mr Fargher: The coroners will come !II
under this.
Mr Alcock: Will you allow me to
make another suggestion, that the Court
should take into consideration the
emoluments attached to our occupation
as members of the House of Keys.
(Laughter.) Members of this House are
working full time and overtime, and we
get one-quarter of what is made to men
for emptying coals out of the hold of a
ship in Dotiglas. Thirty shillings a
week for a display of brains, and £7 12s
for shovelling coal! I think the payment of members of the House of Keys
should be overhauled ifs well as other
payments.
The resolution as amended was put
and carried.
It was agreed that the number of
members of the committee should be
five.
Nominations were received in favour
of the Speaker, Messrs Corrin, Craine,
Crellin, Fargher, end Kitto.
Mr Crellin: I should very much like ,u
withdraw, because I am so busy that I
feel I should not be able to attend the
meetings, and would be merely a
"passenger."
Leave to withdraw was given, and the
committee was constituted by the
unanimous election of the Speaker and
Messrs Corrin, Craine, Fargher, and
Kitto.
ROAD TRAFFIC ACTS.—
REGULATIONS APPROVED.
Mr Gill: I beg to move:—
-
That the following regulations made by the
Highway Board on the 23rd day of February,
1944, under the provisions of the Road Urania
Acts. 1933 to 1940, be and the same arc hereby
approved :—
(1) The Motor Vehicles (Construction and
Use) (Amendment) Regulations, 1944.
(2) The Motor Vehicles (Construction a n d
Use) (Traek Laying Vehicles) Regulations, 1944.
(3) The Motor Vehicles (Variation of Speed
Limit) Regulations, 1944.
On a report by the Attorney-General
we were advised to adopt the English
regulations, and these regulations now
laid before the Court are similar to those
in force in England.
Agreed.
MENTAL DISEASES ACT AND
VALUATION ACTS.—RATE LEVIED.
Mr Craine: I beg to move:—
That in order io meet the expenses of the
Mental Hospital Board for the current year
and the expenses of the dkw.essment Board for
the current year a rate of Sid in the
be
levied on all real property liable to be rated
for that purpose
The amount of money the rate
Road Traffic Acts—Regulations Approved.—Mental Diseases Act and Valuation
Acts—Rate Levied.
TYNWALD COURT, JUNE 0, 1944.
brought in last year was £10,597, and
the total expenditure was £20,396. 1
might also mention that last year private patients brought in £7,000.
Agreed.
CATTLE DISEASES ACT.—RATE
LEVIED.
Mr Craine: I move:—
That during the current year a rate of id
in the rateable value be levied under section
23 of the Cattle Diseases (Prevention) Act,
1929, on all real estate liable to be rated for
that. purpose.
The last time this rate was imposed
was in 1940, when £650 was raised.
The rate is necessary on account of an
outbreak of swine fever which cost
2333. The policy is that the rate is collected only when necessary. It is a halfpenny in the parishes and a farthing in
the towns and villages.
Agreed.
ADVOCATES' FEES—API:OINTMENT
OF COMMITEE.
The Attorney-General: I beg to move:
That a committee of five membeie be appointed in accordance with the provisions of
the Advocates Act, 18N, for the purpose or
revising the scale of fees for the time being
payable to advocates, and to report to Tynwald.
The fees allowed to be charged have
not been revised for 30 years, and there
have been considerable changes since
then. For teansferring a property of
£200 or £2,000 the fees are the same.
They are completely out of date. The
motion asks that a committee of five
should be appointed to go into this
matter.
Mr Fargher: I propose that the two
Deemsters and the Attorney-General be
the committee.
Mr Cottier: I don't think any advocates should be on.
The two Deemsters and Messrs Moore,
Bridson and Hampton were nominated
and appointed the committee.
ELECTRICITY BOARD SALARIES.
Mr Corrin: I beg to moVe:—
That as required by sub-section um of
section TV of the Tale of Man Eleetr!c Light
and Power Act. 1932, Tynwald do approve lio
following salaries for members of the staff of
the Isle of Man Electricity Board :—
469
(a) Engineer and secretary. £650 per annum,
rising by annual instalments of £10
to £700 per annum.
(b) Accountant, £350 per annum, rising by
annual instalments of £10 to £400 per
annum.
(c) Assistant engineer, £367 per annum for
two years, £379 per annum for third and
fourth years, £392 per annum after
Fourth year.
(d) Consumers' engineer, £298 per annum for
two years, £308 per annum for third and
fourth years, £318 per annum after
fourth year.
With regard to section (a), hon. members will see it is proposed to raise the
salary of the engineer and secretary
from £650 to a maximum of £700 over a
period of five years. Section (b) deals
with the accountant, where it is proposed that the sialary should be raised
from £350 in instalments to £400; and
sections (c) and (d) deal with the
assistant engineer and the consumers'
engineer. These salaries have been
agreed upon by a conference of the Douglas Electricity Committee, the Electricity Board, and the employees. They
conform to the scale for similar officials
on the other side as fixed by a Whitley
Council, less rq per cent. due to the
lower taxation in the Isle of Man.
Mr Hampton: What is a consumers'
engineer?
Mr Corrin: He is the man responsible
for all connections.
Mr Moore: I would like to ask the
chairman whether the assistant engineer
and the consumers' engineer are not
merely linesmen, and have not taken
any examination which entitles them
be described as "engineers"? Are they
properly qualified?
Mr Fargher: On the question of the
salary of the engineer and secretary,
whose salary is £650, is this proposal
just a method of granting him a war
bonus, a bonus which has been refused
to other civil servants? The Highway
Board have done the same thing. Since
the last report of the committee refusing
to give certain classes of civil servants
was bonus, the Highway Board have increased the salary of the SurveyorGeneral by £50. That was done after
the Speaker's committee had made their
report.
Mr Gill: It was from April. 1st, 1943.
Cattle Diseases Act—Eates Levied.—Advocates' Fees—Appointment of
Committee.—Electricity Board Salaries.
460
•
TYNWALD COURT, JUNE 6, 1944.
Mr Fargher: After the Speaker's committee had reported. The Board of
Agriculture did the same thing. After
the committee had decided there should
be no war bonuses, the Highway Board
increased the salary of their chief official
and the district surveyors, and the
Board of Agriculture increased the
salary of their organiser by £50, so that
these men have got their war bonuses.
Now the Electricity Board propose the
same thing. Their engineer and secretary gets £650, and they propose to give
him another £50 a year as a war bonus.
The whole question of war bonuses
should be dealt with as a whole. This
method of getting war bonus in is
causing trouble and dissatisfaction
among the Island's civil servants by one
Board being able to grant a rise while
others cannot. The Local Government
Board and the Harbour Beard have not
been able to do it, and it is causing a
good deal of discontent. I do ask the
chairman of the Electricity Board fa
withdraw sections (a) and (b):
Mr Corrin: In the case of the engineer it is not a war bonus.
Mr Fargher: His salary is being raised
by £50, and that is giving him a war
bonus. I understand the secretary and
engineer was appointed less than three
years ago at a maximum, salary of £650.
Now you are putting the maximum up
by £50, which is not fair to others,
especially when a committee has reported against it. The Highway Board
and the Board of Agriculture have done
the same thing, and it was done after the
publication of the Speaker's report.
The Speaker: I am a good deal surprised at . what the hon. member for
Middle has said with regard to the Electricity Board. The whole question of
the electricity increases are out of the
control of the Board. On the last occasion when a vacancy took place, we had
a personal .interview with applicants,
and we were fortunate in securing a
good man in the capacity of engineer
and secretary. If we do not pay some•thing like the standard salary, there is
always the danger that a man may
leave us.
Mr Fargher: Are we not to uphold a
principle because a man may go?
The Speaker: The man has never said
he may go, nor has he asked for an in-
crease. in salary. We are all well aware
of his value. I want the Court to understand that this is not a method of getting round the refusal of a war bonus.
It is simply following an advance fixed
by the unions and the electricity boards
across the water. We had a conference
between the two boards and the employees' representatives, and agreement
was reached granting increases the
same as those in England, less 7i per
cent. on account of the lower taxation
here.
Mr Gill: The statements made by the.
hon. member for Middle are not fair to
the officials. In Mr Cornish's time he
got a salary of £750, and there were
three district surveyors at £300 a year
each. Mr Brown gets £700. Mr Cubbin, the late secretary, got £525, and Mr
Killip, the present secretary, £500.
They are very good officials, and are
worthy of the increases granted, and I
think it very wrong to throw doubt on
the Board's bona fides in granting the
increases.
Mr Fargher: , I made the statement
deliberately, and will let it stand.
Within one month of the report of the
Speaker's committee on war bonuses
turning down any increases, the Surveyor-General's salary was raised from
£650 to £700, and the secretary's from
£450 to £500.
Deemster Cowley: On what date was
that? The report of the committee
dated April 12th.
Mr Fargher: After that the Board of
Agriculture increased the Organiser's
salary £50, and there are others who
got nothing. There has been a good
deal of feeling in the Civil Service over
the matter.
Mr Corrin: Mr Speaker has replied to
the hon. member for Middle, so there is
no need for Me to do so. With regard
to the assistant engineer, the Board
have found him an excellent man, and
his increase is based on that paid for
similar work across. The salary at the
present scale was fixed 10 years ago, and
in view of his services and the salary
paid across, the Board propose the
increase.
Mr Moore: I maintain my question has
not been answered. Are they qualified
engineers or just linesmen? 1 quite
Electricity Board Salaries.
TYNWALD COURT, JUNE 6, 1944.
agree that the engineer is underpaid,
and so are the assistant and consumers'
engineers if they are qualified. Have
they passed any examination?
Mr Corrin: They are good men.
Mr Moore: Have they passed ran elec,
trical examination?
Mr Corrin: They have not any qualifications in that sense.
Mr Moore: They are simply linesmen.
Mr Corrin: You will not get qualified
men for those positions unless You pay
considerably more.
Mr Moore: I only asked if they were
qualified engineers or linesmen.
Mr Corrin: The men do their work
satisfactorily.
Mr Quine: I view with great suspicion this question of the Board's
raising salaries
The Governor: You are out of, order.
The chairman has replied.
The motion was put and carried without a division.
NAVAL AND MILITARY WAR
PENSIONS ACT.—CONSTITUTION
OF LOCAL COMMITTEE.
The following items appeared on the
agenda:—
Appointment of one representative of each
of the three insular Friendly Societies in
accordance with the revised constitntion of
the committee decided on by Tynwald on the
8th February, 1944, and approved by the
1%1 mister of Pensions. on the 29th February.
1944.
The Independent. Order of Odd Fellows and
the Independent Order of Reohabites respectively have recommended the following persons
for appointment :—Mr J. D. Fell, J.P., Richmond Drove, Douglas; Mr J. Allen. Alexander
Terrace, Douglas.
The two Insular Courts of the Ancient. Order
of Foresters have each submitted a 1141111P from
which one representative is to be selected by
Tynwald. These were:—Mr A. J. Caine, 4,
Westbourne Drive. Douglas, and Mr J. W.
fitrickett, 69, Parliament Street, Ramsey.
The Governor: The Court will have
to decide between Mr Caine and Mr
Strickett.
Mr Alcock: I move Mr Strickett,
Mr Brew seconded.
Mr Fargher: Is he an ex-serviceman?
Mr Teare: Mr Caine is.
461
Mr Fargher: I don't know.
Commander Quine: Can anyone tell
us who Mr Caine is?
Mr Teare: He is an ex-serviceman employed by the Douglas Corporation.
Mr Caine was elected, the voting
being:—In the House of Keys: Caine, 1:5:
Strickett, 8. In the Council: Oaine,
Strickett, 2.
POOR RATES LEVIED.
Mr Craine moved:—
That in order to meet the estimated expenses of the Board of Guardians of the Poor
of each of the undermentioned poor relief districts for the year commencing let pril, 1944.
there be levied upon all corporeal real estate
within such districts the following rates,
namely :—
Within the poor relief district of Arbory—a
rate of one penny in the £.
Within the poor relief district of Ballaugha rate of ono penny in the Z.
Within the poor relief district a Braddana. rate of twopence in the £.
Within the poor relief district of Bride—a
rate of one penny in the 2.
Within the poor relief district of German—a
rate of threepence in the Z.
Within the poor relief district of Jurhy—a
rate of fourpence in the Z.
Within the poor relief district of fainan—a
rate of eightpence in the 1.
Within the poor relief district of 'filarown—a
rate of one penny in the Z.
Within the poor relief district of Michaela rate of fivepenee in the R.
Within the poor relief district of Onchan—a
rate of one penny in the £.
Within the poor relief district of Patrick--a
rate of eightpence in the £.
Within the poor relief district of RUSIleft—n
rate of fivepence in the Z.
Within the Door relief district of Santon---a
rate of twopence in the Z.
Within the 'poor relief district of Castletown
—a rate of twopence in the Z.
Within the poor relief district of Douglas—a
rate or ,fourpence in the £.
He said: This is the usual vote in connection with poor rates in 'the Island.
Here I would just like. to point out that
we collected £6,637, which has been paid
over to the guardians, and the following
parishes have no poor rate this year:
Lezayre, Malew, Maughold. Peel and
Ramsey haven't collected a poor rate for
four years. They must have some very
good endowments.
Mr Norris: Before the motion is put, I
wish to ask the Court whether the time
Naval and Military War Pensions Act—Constitution of Local Committee.—Poor
Rates Levied.
462
TYNWALD COURT, JUNE 6, 1944.
has not arrived to abolish the work of
the Poor Law Guardians. I know that
your Excellency is interested in this
question, and I suggest that this is the
proper time to do something to get rid
of this.
Deemster Cowley: Wouldn't that arise
in another report? The report of the
Unemployment Insurance Committee
also envisages that.
Mr Craine: Poor relief in the Isle of
Man should be paid out of Government
funds.
MANX CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT—REPORT OF COMMITTEE
APPROVED,
The Speaker: I Peg to move:—
That the report, dated 23rd May, 1944, of the
committee appointed at an informal meeting
of the members of Tynwald held on the 25th
day of April, 1944. relating to Manx Constitm
tional Development be adapted.
I am very anxious to get back to
Castletown to take part in a Salute the
Soldier exhibition, and I am sure the
Court at this stage does not wish me to
make a leng speech. I am glad to say
that we have still maintaired unanimity,
and we are still determined to secure,
as far as we possibly can, that unification of the people and their representatives in the government of the Island
which will enable them to work together
in close unison in times to come. The
kernel of the report is on page 5, section
(I), with regard to the setting up of an
Executive Council:—
There should be established by Act. of Tynwald
an Executive Council whose function would be
to advise the Lieutenant-Governor on all matters relating to the government of the Island,
including the work of the Civil Service and the
police, the raising or revenue and the expendi•
tare of revenue, any borrowing by the Insular
Government, the introduction of Government
legislation, and generally should become USEOciated with the Lieutenant-Governor in the
affairs of the Island; that such Council should
have access to all information relating to such
affairs, and that iri.8 Excellency should, unless
he saw goad ground for differing in principle
from the Council, accept and act. under the
advice of the Council given in consultation
with him and his official advisers.
I may say, personally, that I think that
if, as a result of those somewhat long
deliberations, the Court can now arrive
at a conclusion of that character, it has
probably achieved as much as we can
reasonably hope to achieve in the direction of Constitutional Reform. It is a
matter that has been in our minds for
a very coniderable length of time and
all I can
at the moment, so far as
the House af Keys is concerned, is that,
while it does not perhaps in so many
words embody what we set out to
,achieve, still I feel that if this proposal
is worked sincerely by both sides, I shall
be perfectly satisfied, and I think the
majority of the members of the House
of Keys would also be satisfied. There
are other matters in the report, of
course, such as unification of the board
system and unification of the finances
of the Island, with a reduction in the
number of boards, and the appointment
of chairmen of boards by Tynwald, five
of the chaii:rnen to be a proposed Executive, together with a finance member,
who will be elected, presumably, because he has some special knowledge or
aptitude for finance; and there is also
another member to be elected by Tynwald, comprising an Executive of seven
members. The report also deals with
thing that has been a vexed question
between us and the Imperial Government—financial control. It deals with
that on the lines of the Tynwald Committee which sat with Sir Malcolm
Delevingne in 1928; that the Powers
vested in the Treasury to approve expenditure in the Voted Services should
be delegated to the Governor, giving the
Governor power to come to a decision,
also to have consultation with the
Imperial Government; that we should
always budget for a certain sum, and
that the Accumulated Fund should be
called the Reserve Fund, which should
stand at .C.,,51:1,000, and should not be
brought below that without the consent
of the Imperial Government. it is suggested that the Harbour Board's revenue,
including the passenger tax, should be
in one fund and included in the Budget,
and that surplus revenue in any year
should be carried forward to next year's
Budget account. It may be that these
matters r..ay require Imperial legislation, and if that is so, I think we should
seek to amend one or two other matters
which have been causing some trouble,
and one is that pensionable officers
serving in England should he able to
transfer their service to the Isle of Man.
and keep their pensionable rights if they
Manx Consti,tutional Development—Report of Committee Approved.
TYNWALD COURT, JUNE 6, 1944.
oecide to come here; and another is the
long standhlg question of reciprocity in
sociJal measures. If it is necessary to
have an Act of Parliament, I suggest that
those matters should be dealt with in
that Act. To come to the question of
the Deemsters, there has never been at
any time a majority in either branch
which has •asked that they should be
removed from the Legislative Council.
We emphasise the necessity for the
Deemsters taking part as little as
possible in political quethons. It is
suggested, W. all events, that three years
after the end of the war it should become
a rule thci the Deemsters should not
take part in 'politics. But I hope that
will not be construed throughout the
isiand as meaning that they shoUld not
take part in many matters of a semijudicial character which come before
Tynwald from time to time. As in the
past, I hope that in the future the
Deerristers will preside over committees and commissions. They have
done much valuable work in the past
in this sphere, and will probably be
much requiled in the days to come. It
is suggested, if agreement is reached not
only between ourselves but with His Excellency and the Imperial Government,
that any machinery to meet the operation of the scheme should be put into
experimen4;a1 operation as soon as
possible, but that the scheme itself
should not come into operation until
after the General Election. It is suggested, too, that the reorganisation of
boards which is adumbrated might
be left for the committee to work out
later on. It there is general agreement
now, the committee sees no reason why
we should not proceed as soon as
possible to act on the lines suggested,
and that an Executive should be elected
by Tynwald for that purpose. There are
certain prnvisions with regard to the
unification of the Civil Service, and the
ending of the old dual system in which
SOMY civil servants were in our service
in the broad sense of the word, while
in the case of others there was a
doubt. I trust it is not necessary
to say anything to recommend this
resolution to the Court, but I would like
to. say two things_ The first is how
extremely indebted we are—I am speaking for the elected House—to the Legislative Council for the manner in which
463
they have lapproached this question.
(Hear, hear.) I also wish to add how
very much we owe to the learned
Attorney-General for his guidance in
this difficult and intricate constitutional
question. When the Keys Committee
drafted their original proposals, we were
conscious that while we had made it
fairly clear what we were seeking for,
we probably had not expressed our
ideas in the best legal or constitutional
language, and have no desire at the
moment to pretend that what we did
would be acceptable, but it was sincere.
What we were doing, we thought, would
have to be submitted to the Home
Secretary, and he could have put his
constitutional lawyers on the problem
and let them straighten the difficulties
out. However, thanks to the extraordinarily valuable assistance of the
learned Attorney-General that is not
now necessary, and with the goodwill
that prevails, not only between the
branches but between the branches .and
Your Excellency—and if I might say so
in one word, in the heart of the Home
Secretary himself, because I believe he
is really interested in the Constitution
of the Isle of Man—I have some hope
that when we go to him, whether we wilt
get all we want or not. I do not knew,
but I believe we will meet a man who
is anxious to assist and understand our
needs. May I just, in conclusion, commend this scheme to the Court, in the
hope and belief that with its acceptance
and adoption and approval by His
Majesty's Government, the Isle of Man
will have set its foot on the road to a
very much wider control of the government of the Island than some of us
thought was even possible or probable
a very short time ago. I have very
great pleasure in moving this resolution.
Mr Alcock: I would like to have an
explanation of these things. On page 5
it says, "There should be established by
Act of Tyrvald an Executive Council of
Tynwald whose functions would be to
advise the Lieutenant-Governor on all
matters relating to the government of
the Island, including the work of the
Civil Service and the police." Then on
page 7 (paragraph 5), dealing with the
Civil Service, it again deaLs with the
Civil Service, and on page 2 one little
paragraph by itself says, "The existing
Manx Constitutional Development—Report of Committee Approved.
464
TYNWALD COURT, JUNE 6, 1944.
procedure to continue with regard to
the Reserved Services."
The Attorney-General: I think I can
explain that. I see your point. That is
a summary of what was discussed a few
weeks ago. If I could have the privilege
of seconding the resolution, I would
have preferred that it should have been
in the much more capable hands of His
Honour Deemster Cowley. It is his
special request that I should second it.
I am now the "father" of the Council, and
I must say that in an experience lasting
now for 24 years, the weeks that have
recently passed, when these matters
have been under consideration, have
been perhaps the happiest and most
satisfactory in all the time of my
membership. I don't think that ever
before has the Legislature of the Isle of
Man moved as one as it has done in this
matter, and is a matter of great satisfaction to those of us in the Council
that we have been privileged to give the
Keys the assistance of that perhaps
more technical training we have had,
and longer experience in constitutional
matters, to bring into their present shape
the ideas and ambitions that were envisaged in the Keys' report. I think that
is just exactly what Tynwald ought to
be, that the elder statesmen of the
Council are able to help the elected
body, generally younger in experience,
in getting their work done, and it is certainly an admirable thing that that cooperation should have found its expression in this particular movement. I
am not going to speak at length, but I
Want to say just a few things. The sixth
of June, 1944, will go down in history as
a clay of prime international importance.
Some of the greatest events in the world's
history are happening to-day. We believe
that under God's guidance this nation and
its allies are going to lead the world not
only to a realisation of its principles,
but thereafter to full liberty in human
affairs—at a terrific price. This day,
as our children and succeeding generations will come to look at it, will also be
a day of progress and development in
the same direction. We are doing today in a quiet, constitutional, and
eminently friendly way, what is being
done at an awful price by our fellowcountrymen and countrywomen and our
allies. We are moving in the direction
of liberty and democracy, in the development of a proud people, and the influence of the people in human affairs,
and it is good to show to-day amongst
ourselves that we all believe in the principles announced by Lincoln at Gettysburg, "Government of the people, by the
people, and for the people," as the only
possible government, and We are taking
a step in the direction of government
for the people. When you come to think
of it, in our Empire our King's throne
is not in his palace at Westminster. It
is in his people's hearts and in his
people's wills, and we are anxious on
this auspicious day to make our contribution in this little Island to that
type of government in which the
King, through his representative, his
Lieutenant-Governor, will co-operate in
all matters of government for the welfare of our people. It is an auspicious
day, sir, a day on which we are all of
one mind, and I think with Mr Speaker
that the matter goes now to London in
a form which will commend itself to
favourable consideration, After all, we
are asking less than Parliament has
asserted as the foundation of its government for 500 years, and I cannot believe
myself that the nation which granted
South Africa its charter within a year
or two after a war, a nation whose
Parliament passed the Statute of Westminster, cutting off every legal tie that
bound the Empire to the home country,
and leaving only moral ties of affection
and esteem, and loyalty to the Crown,
a country that granted Southern Ireland
its Home Rule, with all the tragic possibilities that might arise, a nation that
offered India a great measure of selfgovernment, and also a land like
Jamaica, is going to turn its back on
this Island when it only asks that some
of the same measure of liberty should
be applied to us. We are fortunate indeed in having with us in the Island
to-day a. Lieutenant-Governor whose
term, with our utmost accord, has been
extended, and who, though officially his
hands are tied behind his back, cannot
conceal his heart, and we know that,
like the support of the strong, silent
Navy of which he is such a distinguished ornament, we go up to
London with the backing of his interest
and regard. I do not think that in going
to a man like Mr Morrison, with his
Manx Constitutional Development—Report of Committee Approved,
TYNWALD COURT, JUNE 6, 1944,
•
•
record, that he will fail to appreciate
the desires of the Isle of Man. We are
not rebels, agitators, asking for something unreasonable. We are facing days
of great undertakings, great difficulties,
great possibilities, and to face these
days we want to lay at.the service of
our people the whole of our ability. We
want this ability and enthusiasm mixed
up with all the knowledge that comes
to us from the Government in London
and the representative of the King
here, believing that when all these
powers are combined together in one
purpose, success will be achieved. That
reminds me that I have been asked,
"Will this scheme be a success?" The
answer to that is this: "It is in your
own hands." It is like marriage, and
the success of marriage depends on the
people who get married. I am not suggesting that a democracy does not make
mistakes. Of course it does, but experience has shown that people are prepared to be ill-governed by themselves.
rather than be well governed' by some
tyrant not responsible.
But the possibilities are there, and I think it is the
best scheme, containing the best possibilities for the Isle of Man. I like to
think that the passing of this scheme
will dispense for ever with that atmospheee of hostility between the members of Tynwald, particularly the House
of Keys, and the Government of this
Island, which has existed ever since
1866, a position which we have pointed
out in our report, and which we hope
we have taken steps to rectify. In
future 1 hope that will be gone, and as
one body, prompted by one principle,
The welfare of the Island,. and prompte
by one desire, when this scheme goes
through, as I think it will go through,
we will look forward to the happy days
ahead. I have the greatest satisfaction
in supporting this resolution. There may
be one or two small points in this report
still open for discussion, but I do suggest
to hon. members that it would be wise
to defer these for later discussion when
the time comes. It would be a pity to
let anything go from this Court up to
London to show even a particle of dissension between us. We might, for instance, think it would better to continue the present war executive as it
is, and not have it submitted to Tynwald for re-election or otherwise. That
465
is the kind of matter which, when the
time comes for decisions, we can decide,
and will decide, in Tynwald. • In the
meantime, it is the big issue which
demands the backing of a unanimous
Court, and if I might make the suggestion to members in the friendliest
possible way, they should leave over
any little doubts on detail to be thought
over and be decided when the time is
ready, and unite to-day behind this
resolution in the spirit of it, as a big
principle to which we give our enthusiastic support.
Mr Norris: The Attorney-General has
mentioned that he is the "father"
of the Legislative Council.
I am the
"baby." . In that capacity, it affords
me very great pleasure to-day, in
the position to which the House of
Keys has appointed me, to take
my part in giving my whole-hearted
support to the memorandum which
has come from • the committee. The
Court will agree that I would be untrue
to myself if I said that this memorandum
completely meets my point of view. The
Court, and the House of Keys in par- '
ticular, will remember that it was on
my motion, as a member of the House
of Keys, that this question was brought
into the political life of the Island. And
the first paragraph of the resolution
which the House of Keys debated contained what the Attorney-General has
quoted this afternoon, that passage from
Lincoln's address at Gettysburg, "Government of the people and by the people
and for the people." So far as the
memorandum before us asserts this
principle, in the most vital, the most
far-reaching proposal that has ever been
before this Court, it is a most definite advance in Home Rule in the Isle of Man.
From my contact with this subject for
many years and in many ways, I am
glad that the Attorney-General has
spoken what is in the mind, I believe,
of the Imperial Government. They have
only one desire, to help the people of the
Isle of Man, and the Lieutenant.
Governor comes to the Island with that
main object in view, while here to safeguard and put forward wider national
issues. Democracy is for the people—
not the members of the House of Keys,
not the members of the Tynwald Court,
but the people outside, those whom we
are here to legislate for. I am dis-
Manx Constitutional Development—Report of Committee Approved.
466
TYNWALD COURT, JUNE 6, 1944.
appointed, and I am bound to be disappointed, and I think the COurt will on
general principles be disappointed, and
am sure that the Attorney-General,
after the splendid address we have
heard this afternoon, must be disappointed, with what the memorandum
does not contain. But it does convoy to
the Home Secretary that we really mean
business, that we want these new powers,
that we are entitled to them, and must
have them, because we want democracy
to be represented here, and democratic
principles to be applied. Within the last
week we have all read the report of the
Speaker's Conference, ia conference set
up by the Imperial Government, which,
although the House of Commons has reformed itself three or four times in the
last twenty years, says that the people
must be represented better. We in the
Isle of Man have set up e commission
on the same matter, and I would like to
ask His Excellency when the commission's proposals are likely to come
forward. I put it to the Court that in
presenting this memorandum we shall
be weakened, we shall go with a lanket
on us, if we are not in a position to give
the Home Secretary information that he
-is certainly entitled to. He is entitled
to .ask: " You say you want the people
to be represented. Do I understand that
the House of Keys has made up its mind
to see that the people are properly
represented in its own body?" We are
asking for greater powers in the name
of democracy; he is entitled to ask, "Are
you elected on a reasonably democratic
basis?" And we are not. So far as the
Legislative Council is concerned, my
opinions are well known; I think there
should be reform of the Council, so that
members shall come from the people
direct, and I think that the Deemsters
cannot possibly continue to sit. I recognise that under this memorandum they
are not to be on the Executive. After
that, although they may not have much
power, the principle is there. I think
we have to ask whether democratic
principles are carried through in this
measure of Reform? Well, so far as the
proposals go, they are, and I am very
proud that, at my time of life, which
cannot last very much longer, I have
had some little part in bringing to
fruition that real feature of Home Rule,
a responsible Executive, still with the
guidance and help we shall get from the
British Government—because the proposals as they affect the British Government are so reasonable, with all the
safeguards there are. I thank members
of the Court for enabling me to do what
could in this .matter.
The resolution was carried unanimously.
REPORT OF WAR, COMMITTEE ON
THE BUILDING TRADE.
Deemster Cowley was to move:—
That. the further interim Report, dat ed
March, 1944, of the War Committee of Ty nwald on post-war reconstruct ion, and in
particular as to the position of the building
trade and apprenticeship thereto, be adopted.
Mr Hampton: May I ask that consideration of this resolution be deferred
till the next sitting? I have some
criticisms to offer on the report, land the
hour is getting late.
It would not be
fair to His Honour the Deemster, nor to
anyone who wishes to criticise the report, to take it now.
Mr Teare: Certain things are hingeing
upon the adoption of the report.
Deemster Cowley: I should be sorry
to take up the time of the Court, or to
lose the opportunity of hearing any
criticisms, but it does occur to me that
upon this report hinge a good many
factors which may arise in connection
with post-war reconstruction.
Mr Hampton: Where is the urgency?
Deemster Cowley: This report deals
with three distinct subjects. It is not.
in one sense, the report of the War Committee, except insofar as the committee beard and co-ordinated the views of the
joint industrial council representing
both sides of the building industry, on
rhatters such as the registration of
builders and the conditions in which
builders shall be allowed to operate—
not making it compulsory to register,
but ensuring, I think, an almost general
registration, by providing that Government contracts, and contracts placed by.
local authorities with Government assistance, shall only be given to registered
builders. I am quite prepared, if
criticism is directed to that part of the
report, to explain the reasons which led
the committee to approve the most
warmly-urged suggestion of the master.
Report of War Committee on the Building Trade.
TYNWALD COURT, JUNE 6, 1944.
builders and • the employees themselves—
Mr Fargher: That is, those who are
left on the Island, not the poor beggars
fighting on the Second Front.
Deemster Cowley: That may be one of
the objections we have to meet. But the
point is that the intention of that part of
the report is to ensure that building in
the post-war period shall be carried out
in a satisfactory manner, by competent
builders and competent workmen. This
is a principle which has already been
adopted in the plumbing trade; the Douglas Corporation will not allow a
plumber to operate • in connection with
their water system unless he is fully
qualified. And that brings me to the
second part of the report, dealing with
apprenticeship. if there is one thing
more important than another in the
post-war period, it is that we shall be
able to train young men in skilled
trades. In order to effect that, the committee has had a number of conferences
with the parties concerned, and is putting forward proposals which have been
submitted by the trade, and after
. examination approved by us, providing
for an increase in the number of apprentices, a more even distribution of
apprentices throughout the industry,
and we hope, combined with other proposals which we have, a better system
by which not only can older apprentices,
particularly men returned from the Services, be assisted by the Government,
but they will be enabled to receive that
technical knowledge which is so important a part of their training. Third,
and in one sense the most urgent, is the
proposal dealing with what may seem to
be la small matter, but is regarded by the
men themselves as very important—holidays with pay. This is particularly
complicated in the building trade, where
a man works for different employers at
different seasons of the year, as the
pArticular employer may happen to get
large or small contracts.. A system, has
been adopted in England, and has met
with approval by masters and employees
here, by which one-and-sixpence per
week is paid by the person who employs
the workman, stamps are put on a card.
and at the appropriate holiday period
the man draws the one-and-sixpence for
each week he has worked, less a deduction of sixpence for the period, to cover
467
the organisation's expenses. Difficulty
has arisen—and this is one reason for
urgency in adopting at any rate this part
of the report—in connection with men
who have come from England to work
here; they are having their holiday
money paid, and the local workman beside them is not. It is one of those little
things that everybody is agreed upon; it
affects nobody but the trade concerned,
and it ensures equality between different
employers and different men; and I suggest to the Court that it calls for no controversy whatever. The report has been
in members' hands for some time, and I
•would prefer to move it and then hear
and reply to any criticisms there may be.
Mr Teare; I will second the adoption
of the report.
Mr Fargher: Can we leave over the
greater part of the report, and just take
the part dealing with the question of
holidays with pay?
Mr Hampton: I may say that I have no
objection to that part of the report.
The Speaker: I feel that what is going
on is hardly fair to His Honour or to the
Court, I think there is a general desire
that consideration of the report be adjourned. This is a question much too
important to be rushed, as the tendency
seems to be.
Mr Alcock: There is nothing in the
report except about those horrible things
called houses built with bricks, which of
course is a highly-organised industry.
The present Minister for Housing in
Great Britain is the secretary of the
building operatives' trade union, Mr
Hicks, and his parliamentary secretary,
Mr Coppock, is in the same union.
Deemster Cowley: I am the last person
in the world to wish to press for a decision on a matter in which it is thought
- desirable that there should be discussion.
If the Court would be good
enough to express approval of the part
of the report which deals with holidays
with pay, I should be perfectly happy to
leave the other parts for consideration
at the next sitting of Tynwald, if there is
time. The only thing I am afraid of is
that the next sitting will presumably be
the Budget sitting, and the demands on
the Court's time will be great. If the
Court can promise that this report will
not be held over till after the summer
Report of War Committee on the Building Trade.
468
TYNWALD COURT, JUNE 6, 1944.
adjournment—because, after all, it is a
matter of extreme urgency—I shall be
satisfied. If the hon. member for
Middle will move that Part III of the report be adopted, I shall be prepared,
with the consent of my seconder, to
accept that.
Mr Fargher; I move that.
Mr Corrin: I second it, but isn't the
question of apprenticeship as important
• as the question of holidays with pay?
Already, men are coming beck who have
served with the Forces—
The Speaker: On a point of order, are
we going to discuss this. report, or to
adjourn discussion? We have been requested to deal with one urgent point,
holidays with pay. Now the hon. member of the Council is trying to introduce
something else. Cannot we decide
whether we are going to consider one
part of the report, to consider the whole,
ar to consider none at all?
Mr Fargher's resolution, by which the
Court adopted Part III of the War Committee's report, was put and carried.
The Court rose.
7=1MHIPHIIMIC
HOUSE OF KEYS.
Douglas, Tuesday, June 6, 1944.
The House met at the close of a sitting of Tynwald held on the same day,
and adjourned to Tuesday, June 13th,
at 2-30 p.m.
HOUSE OF KEYS.
Douglas, Tuesday, June 13, 1944.
Present: The Speaker (Mr J. D. Qualtrough, J.P.). Messrs T. A. Quayle, J.
Clinton, J. Callister, F. H. Crowe, T. Q.
Cannell, A. J. Cattier, J. W. Brew, T. G.
Bridson, J. L. Quine, J. H. L. Cowin, T.
Clucas, E. W. Fargher, Richard Kneen,
W. A. Kelly, J. J. MeArd, G. H. Moore,
W. H, Alcock, A. E. Kitto, J. Kelly, A. J.
.Teare, and W. C. Craine, with Mr H. G..
Johnson, Acting Secretary.
Mr Hampton was off the Island, and
had asked to be excused.
KING'S BIRTHDAY.—MESSAGE OF
CONGRATULATION AND REPLY.
The Secretary: On the occasion of His
Majesty's birthday, the following telegram was sent by Mr Speaker:—
The members of the House of Keys
with their humble duty send to His
Majesty their loyal greetings, and pray
that the Divine blessing may attend His
Majesty in these critical days.—Qualtrough, Speaker."
To that the following reply ha been
received:—
"Speaker of the House of Keys, bouglas.—f am commanded to ask you to
express to the members of the House of
Keys His Majesty's sincere thanks for
their kind and loyal message.—Private
Secretary."
ACCESS TO MOUNTAINS BILL.
The Speaker: When the House adjourned, we had completed the debate,
and had taken a division, on the second
reading of the Access to Mountains
King's Birthday—Message of Congratulation and Reply.—Access to Mountains
Bill.