Pressure Mounts To Ax Teacher Seniority Rules : NPR
March 7, 2011
NPR Shop |
FIND A STATION
home
news
SEARCH
arts & life
music
programs
listen
Support for NPR is provided by:
News > U.S. > Education
Twitter
Facebook
NPR Social Media | Login | Register
Share
Comments (169)
Recommend (22)
Pressure Mounts To Ax Teacher Seniority Rules
by LARRY ABRAMSON
Add to Playlist
Listen to the Story
Weekend Edition Sunday
[4 min 3 sec]
March 6, 2011
Download
Transcript
text size A
A A
Last week, the New York state Senate passed a
bill that would end the use of seniority as the
sole factor for deciding which teachers get laid
off. The bill faces long odds in the state
Assembly. But the vote is a sign of growing
frustration with what's known as "last in, first
out" — a rule that says the last teachers hired
get dismissed first when there is a layoff.
Like local leaders around the country, New York
City Mayor Michael Bloomberg says he will
soon have to lay off teachers because of
shrinking state aid. He says he cannot have his
hands tied by a system that judges teachers
solely on their years of experience.
"We need a merit-based system for determining
layoffs this spring," Bloomberg says. "And
anything short of that is just not a solution to the
problem we face."
Enlarge
Become an NPR Sponsor
most popular
Viewed
Recommended
Commented
1. Flamingos Drop From Siberian Sky: Locals
Mystified
2. A Kaleidoscopic Book That'll Make Your 'World
Spin'
3. Nuts! Bacteria Prompt Peanut Butter, Hazelnut
Recalls
4. The Flipside: Jack White On Why He Loves
Accents, But Hates His Own
Scott Olson/Getty Images
A sign supporting teachers is taped to the railing above a
stairway in the Wisconsin state Capitol last month, as
activists protested what they call an anti-union measure.
Seniority: An Obstacle To Reform?
Education reformers have argued for some time
that relying on seniority alone gives the ax to
young, promising teachers. They also say the seniority system causes mayhem in low-income
schools, which tend to rely on new teachers. The anti-seniority forces got a boost from Education
Secretary Arne Duncan last week.
"If layoffs are based only on seniority, that doesn't help kids," Duncan told reporters. "And it
particularly doesn't help the students who need the most help."
Many Democratic education reformers see seniority as an obstacle to reforms that favor more
effective teachers. At the same time, Republican governors in Wisconsin and other states are
trying to reduce the power of labor in the name of fiscal austerity.
Some unions, backed in a corner, say they are the only ones watching out for students. Michael
Mulgrew, president of New York City's United Federation of Teachers, says budget cutters like
Bloomberg are being disingenuous.
"We are very leery, especially in times like we have right
http://www.npr.org/2011/03/06/134275966/pressure-mounts-to-ax-teacher-seniority-rules[3/7/2011 9:48:25 AM]
SPECIAL SERIES
Setting Out
Students graduating from college this spring are
entering the toughest, most uncertain job market in
generations.
Pressure Mounts To Ax Teacher Seniority Rules : NPR
now, that people will try to say, 'Just give us complete
discretion,' and then they will stop investing in
education," Mulgrew says.
Opponents of seniority rules may have some
momentum, but they still face an uphill battle against a
practice that is enshrined in law in 14 states.
The Chicago Public Schools system tried to get rid of
hundreds of teachers last year without regard to seniority
— but a judge put a stop to it. Karen Lewis, president of
the Chicago Teachers Union, says seniority is the law —
and ending it will just aggravate the already huge
problem of teacher turnover.
If layoffs are based
only on seniority, that
doesn't help kids. And
it particularly doesn't
help the students who
need the most help.
- Education Secretary Arne
Duncan
Each week, New York Times crossword puzzle editor
and NPR's Puzzlemaster Will Shortz presents an on-air
quiz to one contestant and gives a challenge for
Weekend Edition listeners at home.
Submit Your Answer
Listeners who submit correct answers win a chance to
play the on-air puzzle. Important: Please include a
phone number where we can reach you Thursday at 3
p.m. ET.
this week's challenge
"Fifty percent of the teachers that enter the Chicago Public Schools leave within the first five
years," she said. "We have a problem that we're going to have instability throughout our system,
and that's the direction we're going in. This is what seniority kind of puts the brakes on."
A Tip Of The Hat
Weekend Edition on Facebook
'You Don't Vilify Your Union'
Politicians rushing to get rid of seniority would do well to consider what happens next. Jeffrey
Thomas, an assistant superintendent in the Scottsdale Unified School District in Arizona, says the
state Legislature there voted to get rid of seniority in 2009.
Fans get our favorite stories, exclusive videos and realtime messages while we're on the air.
join us
"What they didn't do, is they didn't create an alternative," he says.
Thomas says his district is working on a point-based system that looks at teacher evaluations and
other factors. In some places, negotiations over a new evaluation system may take months or
years, particularly if districts want to throw students' progress into the mix.
Anousheh Ansari Dreams of Stars
Thomas says districts that are already fighting their unions in court, or in the headlines, may never
get those evaluations in place.
"You don't vilify your union — you bring them to the table and you make them partners, because
when you talk to your union leadership, they don't want to see bad teachers, either," Thomas says.
"But they do want to see ... you treat them fairly, if in fact you're going to go after performance
issues."
Related NPR Stories
Farewell, NPR Family
more
@nprweekend On Twitter
We're getting lots of web comments about this
morning's story on increasing the retirement age...
what do you think? http://n.pr/e6JSD2
about 23 hours ago
The Changing Face Of Organized Labor March 3, 2011
For former addicts, watching Charlie Sheen's media
frenzy reminds them of their pasts: http://n.pr/fiviEB
Providence Mayor Defends Firings As Teachers Protest March 3, 2011
The Nation: Wisconsin Education Faces Hard Lessons March 3, 2011
1 day ago
Twitter
Facebook
Share
Comments (169)
NPR's Robert Smith explores reactions to the
upcoming Congressional hearings on radicalization
and Muslim Americans. http://n.pr/ejtcPz
Recommend (22)
More Education
1 day ago
PODCAST + RSS FEEDS
education
Memphis Voters To Decide School Merger Proposal
The plan divides the area along urban and suburban lines, as well as racial
and class lines.
education
Pressure Mounts To Ax Teacher Seniority
Rules
Education reformers say "last in, first out" rules do a
disservice to students.
education
Miami's Education Success Story
Podcast
RSS
NPR's David Greene reports the latest from Libya:
http://n.pr/fqT9Nk.
1 day ago
Education
Weekend Edition
Sunday
–
Follow @nprweekend on Twitter.
@nprLiane On Twitter
POLITICS NEWSLETTER
Political analysis and highlights
delivered weekly, plus the Political
Junkie's ScuttleButton puzzle. View
http://www.npr.org/2011/03/06/134275966/pressure-mounts-to-ax-teacher-seniority-rules[3/7/2011 9:48:25 AM]
@wajobu it slipped out, and I knew someone would
comment and try to confirm rumors - but there is no
truth to them
8 days ago
Pressure Mounts To Ax Teacher Seniority Rules : NPR
Sample
Enter E-Mail Address
Submit
Privacy Policy
Oscar scores, after puzzle this hour.
8 days ago
Almost 2 tired to tweet. Long week. Thx to KMSU in
Springfield, MO for hospitality . Off to Seattle and
Alaska this week. On with the show
comments
8 days ago
Please Note: Community managers review some user comments prior to posting them to the site. Read our
editorial statement to find out more.
Please keep your community civil. All comments must follow the NPR.org Community rules and terms of use.
See also the Community FAQ.
You must be logged in to leave a comment. Login / Register
✔
Post this comment to Facebook, too?
NPR reserves the right to read on the air and/or publish on its website or in any medium now known or unknown the
e-mails and letters that we receive. We may edit them for clarity or brevity and identify authors by name and
location. For additional information, please consult our Terms of Use.
Recent
First
Recent
First
william fyke (wfyke) wrote:
Amen Tom!
Monday, March 07, 2011 12:41:34 PM
Recommend (0)
Report abuse
Tom Letourneau (tomlet) wrote:
Robin, our schools are socialist. I'm a government employee that helps your kids to become
educated. You constantly use hyperbolic, misapplied terms like tyranny, oppression, thug,
socialism, hostage, etc. When you use terms like those so casually, you trivialize them and
your argument.
Just because you say government unions haven't done anything in 50 years doesn't make it
so. You know nothing about education and the problems faced by educators. That doesn't
stop you from parroting half baked, hyperbolic assumptions from like-minded conservatives
who would like nothing more than to privatize the education system.
Monday, March 07, 2011 12:37:06 PM
Recommend (1)
Report abuse
william fyke (wfyke) wrote:
Robin B - How are government unions crippling our education system? Id like to see your
statistics backing up that statement. All the numbers I have seen show a direct correlation
between tax cuts for corporations and federal and state deficits. The $50,000/yr salary that
most teachers make is miniscule when compared with the sickening gobs of money these
corporations have kept due to tax cuts put thru by politicians that were funding by their
campaigns contributions. And what do these mega corporations give back to the country?
They take our jobs and outsource them to other countries where its ok to make people work
70 hours a week for $15 or work under life threatening conditions with no recourse for the
family if the primary source of income in the family is killed at the job. These CEOs have
received millions of dollars in bonuses after asking the government to give them OUR
MONEY to bail them out. And you have the nerve to say that unions are what is damaging
this country and the education system? Do your research and then come to the table.
"I have $1 in my wallet. That is more than the combined income tax liability for GE, ExxonMobil, Citibank and the Bank of America."
Monday, March 07, 2011 12:36:16 PM
Recommend (1)
Report abuse
http://www.npr.org/2011/03/06/134275966/pressure-mounts-to-ax-teacher-seniority-rules[3/7/2011 9:48:25 AM]
Follow @nprLiane on Twitter.
Pressure Mounts To Ax Teacher Seniority Rules : NPR
boulder dude (BeeDeeFour) wrote:
"Education reformers have argued for some time that relying on seniority alone gives the ax
to young, promising teachers. They also say the seniority system causes mayhem in lowincome schools, which tend to rely on new teachers. The anti-seniority forces got a boost
from Education Secretary Arne Duncan last week."
~~@~~
How special, so nice to see Nice Polite Republican radio's shorthand for "cheaper" and the
US's race to the bottom.
Monday, March 07, 2011 12:20:39 PM
Recommend (0)
Report abuse
Mark Sechrest (MarkGSechrest) wrote:
RE: Black Hart (Dewbarry) wrote:
Enough with the teachers union screed. There have been teachers unions far longer than
these problems have existed. Prop 13, elimination of local school tax assesements etc etc."
-------------It took time for unions to establish their base in Sacramento and become as powerful and
destructive as they now are. Yes, teachers unions have been around for a long time, but that
doesn't mean they aren't the problem. That's your line of logic?
Throwing more money at the problem has just made the problem bigger, and is NOT a
solution. California passed prop. 13 because the spending beast in Sacramento was raising
property taxes to levels that senior citizens where loosing their homes.
So that's your solution? Throw more money at the problem? Try thinking a little deeper than
that please.
Monday, March 07, 2011 12:18:56 PM
Recommend (0)
Report abuse
Mark M (cntrlfrk) wrote:
The unions have long outlived their usefullness, they are nothing more than a branch of the
democrat party and should be abolished.
Monday, March 07, 2011 11:58:40 AM
Recommend (1)
Report abuse
Robin B (RockinRobinHood) wrote:
Tom, you can suggest to change the termonology all you like but it doesn't change reality or
the fact that government unions are crippling our education and state governments. Teachers
don't deserve to be held hostage against their will by being forced to join unions and the
children and taxpayers certainly don't either. Government unions have not accomplished
anything productive for our country in 50 years and it is time to end that failed socialist
experiment because we can't afford it any longer.
Monday, March 07, 2011 11:56:24 AM
Recommend (0)
Report abuse
Tom Letourneau (tomlet) wrote:
Robin, you really need to find another word that's less hyperbolic than tyranny. The word
"thug" might also be misapplied in your context.
I would also suggest that you don't know anything about education reform or the role of
unions in it.
Monday, March 07, 2011 11:43:22 AM
Recommend (2)
Report abuse
Robin B (RockinRobinHood) wrote:
Time to end the tyranny of the teachers unions that are holding teachers, students and
taxpayers hostage. Teachers deserve the right to decide whether they want to join the union
and want to see their hard earned money taken by union thugs who use it to buy off
Democrat politicians. Meaningful education reform, let alone fixing our state deficits, will
never be achieved as long as teachers unions have a stranglehood on our schools and
government.
Monday, March 07, 2011 11:21:07 AM
http://www.npr.org/2011/03/06/134275966/pressure-mounts-to-ax-teacher-seniority-rules[3/7/2011 9:48:25 AM]
Pressure Mounts To Ax Teacher Seniority Rules : NPR
Recommend (0)
Report abuse
Black Hart (Dewbarry) wrote:
Please, read when refering to Calfifornia Public schools read the following 2005 Rand report;
http://www.rand.org/pubs/monographs/2004/RAND_MG186.pdf
Much has happened politically and with tax structure in this state over the past 20 years that
has affected the efficiency and effectiveness of local school districts and teaching. Why we
still have local school boards here in California is almost rediculas. Policy and descretion is
predominately controlled by the Feds and Sacramento.
Enough with the teachers union screed. There have been teachers unions far longer than
these problems have existed. Prop 13, elimination of local school tax assesements etc etc.
Monday, March 07, 2011 11:17:55 AM
Recommend (1)
Report abuse
View all comments (169)»
npr always on
Newsletters
Podcasts
Mobile
RSS Feeds
Widgets
API
news
arts & life
music
programs a-z
listen
more
U.S.
World
Opinion
Politics
Business
Technology
Science
Health
Sports
Books
Movies
Pop Culture
Food
Performing Arts
Games & Humor
Concerts
Music Lists
Music Interviews
Music News
Music Blogs
Rock/Pop/Folk
Jazz & Blues
Classical
Browse Artists A-Z
Morning Edition
All Things Considered
Fresh Air
The Diane Rehm Show
On The Media
On Point
Talk of the Nation
Tell Me More
Weekend Edition
Saturday
Weekend Edition Sunday
Car Talk
Wait Wait...Don't Tell Me!
Hourly News
NPR Program Stream
Schedule
Find Station Streams
Multimedia
Columns
Blogs
Analysis
Commentary
NPR Ombudsman
Topic Index
All Songs Considered
From The Top
JazzSet
Marian McPartland's
Piano Jazz
Mountain Stage
Song of the Day
The Thistle & Shamrock
World Cafe
World Of Opera
Copyright 2011 NPR
Terms of Use
Privacy Policy
Permissions
Corrections
Text-Only Site
Help
Contact Us
about
This Is NPR
Support and Sponsor
Press Room
Careers
NPR Shop
Contact Us
Donate
Our partner in public broadcasting
http://www.npr.org/2011/03/06/134275966/pressure-mounts-to-ax-teacher-seniority-rules[3/7/2011 9:48:25 AM]
Radio