STATE LIBRARY OF SOUTH AUSTRALIA
J. D. SOMERVILLE ORAL HISTORY
COLLECTION
OH 658/10
Full transcript of an interview with
TOM AND MARGARET CASEY
on 4 July 2003
By John Mannion
Recording available on CD
Access for research: Unrestricted
Right to photocopy: Copies may be made for research and study
Right to quote or publish: Publication only with written permission from the
State Library
OH 658/10
TOM & MARGARET CASEY
NOTES TO THE TRANSCRIPT
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J.D. SOMERVILLE ORAL HISTORY COLLECTION, STATE
LIBRARY OF SOUTH AUSTRALIA: INTERVIEW NO. OH 658/10
Interview with Tom and Margaret Casey by John Mannion at Myrtle Bank,
South Australia, on the 4th July 2003 for The State Library of South Australia’s
Peterborough Oral History Project ‘Relaying Our Tracks’.
TAPE 1 SIDE A
It’s the 4th July 2003, this is John Mannion at – where do you actually live, Tom?
TOM:
16 Coachhouse Mews, 18 Cross Road, Myrtle Bank, postcode 5064.
And I can tell people that it’s not easy to find, but once you’re here you’ll never
forget it. (laughter) And I’m here today, I’m talking with Tom Casey and his
wife, Margaret. I think I’d be right in saying that Tom would be one of
Peterborough’s greatest ambassadors, I think. You were involved in politics for a
long time and held the country at heart when you were in politics. And I told you
about this project we’re doing, Tom, it’s particularly to do with Peterborough and
the rail industry as such.
Can you tell me a bit about yourself, Tom, where you were born and what year
you were born, and a bit about your parents?
TOM:
I was born in Quorn in 1921, when my parents owned the Austral Hotel.
From Quorn my people came to Adelaide, where my father bought a house at
Young Street, Wayville, and in 1922 he leased the Port Broughton Hotel for twelve
months, and then in 1923 he bought the freehold of the Peterborough Hotel and we
moved to Peterborough in 1923. That hotel remained in the family’s hands until late
in the ’60s, when we sold it. It was in my mother’s name and she was responsible
for its sale.
Just go back a bit, you were telling me about your grandfather before. Can you
tell us a bit about him and how he got a job in the railway?
TOM:
My grandfather and grandmother, Patrick and Bridget Casey, came out
from Ireland on the ship called the Hesperus, and they landed at Port Adelaide and
they – Patrick got a job with the South Australian Railways at Terowie, where they
lived in a tent. They had two children who were born in Ireland before they left
Ireland, they were born in Ireland, and then after some time in Terowie they moved
to Ucolta where again they lived in tents.
What was your dad doing?
3
He was a ganger on the railways, Grandfather Patrick. I didn’t even know him
because he died before I came into being. Anyway, he moved then to Yunta and
most of the rest of the family were born in Yunta, including my father, James. And
my dad, I think he got a job in the railways for a short time. I think he put his age up
in order to get into the railways as a job, but then he – he didn’t like the railways and
he got a job as a barman at the Peterborough Hotel. And just prior to that he worked
in Port Pirie as a sort of an ostler.
To the uninitiated, can you explain what an ostler is?
Well, an ostler is sort of a handyman in the hotels, used to clean the shoes and clean
up the rubbish and do odd jobs around the place, and he lived with a family at
Warnertown, and he used to push his bike from Warnertown into Pirie every day for
this job.
And then, as I said, eventually he left Warnertown and came to
Peterborough and got a job as the barman at the Peterborough Hotel, and then he met
my mother, who was born in Peterborough.
Her name was Amelia Malachy.
(coughs) Excuse me. They were married in 1916 in Peterborough, and they lived in
Peterborough for twelve months, when my brother, Naish[?], was born. They then
moved to Quorn, where Dad bought the freehold of the Austral Hotel, which in those
days was a single-storey hotel, and during the seven years that my dad was in the
hotel at Quorn, he built the second storey, and then he leased the hotel after that and
came to Adelaide for a short time, as I said, purchasing a house in Wayville. And
then he leased the hotel at Port Broughton for twelve months and then he bought the
freehold of the Peterborough Hotel, where we moved to in 1923.
And of course I was brought up in the hotel business, and I went to school in
Peterborough as a primary school student, and my secondary school was
completed at Rostrevor College in Adelaide, where I boarded as a country
boarder. There weren’t many boarders in those days at Rostrevor College. As a
matter of fact, it’s got to the stage now where my vintage, we’re some of the
oldest living members of the Rostrevor College now, although there are several
members that go back into the ’20s. But I started off at Rostrevor in 1934.
So were your formative years spent in Peterborough, would you say?
TOM:
Yes. Yes. Right up until the war years, and then I joined the Army and I
was stationed at Woodside, and my unit was the 48th Battalion, which was an
4
infantry battalion, and we moved out of Woodside and went into Victoria for
training in very heavily-timbered country outside of Geelong. Matter of fact, it
wasn’t very far from a place called Anglesea, which is on the coast. And from there
we moved to Sydney and we were training then with a brigade, that’s an infantry
brigade, and then all of a sudden headquarters notified the powers that be that all
infantry battalions were to be disbanded. I think that was a direct order from
General Blamey at that time. And we all went into light anti-aircraft, Bofors, and I
did my initial training on Bofors at Richmond. And from there I went to Newcastle
– first of all Sydney, and then Newcastle, and then Townsville, where my regiment
was – we were defending the Garbutt airfield, which was outside of Townsville,
which was alongside of the American assembly base called 4AD, where a lot of the
’planes used to come out from America on flat-tops, and they were reassembled at
4AD and then they were made available for South Pacific.
So they were brought out on aircraft carriers?
TOM:
Yes, on flat-tops, we used to call them flat-tops. During that time I
instructed, I suppose, a dozen American – young Americans on Bofors, and you
would be surprised to realise that these fellows had never seen a Bofor gun. They
had no idea of drill, they had no idea of how the gun operated or anything, we had to
start off from scratch. And I taught about a dozen crews the basic skills of the Bofor
gun and so forth. But that really staggered me, to think that these boys came out
from America with no knowledge whatsoever, just forced into this particular area.
And after the War Margaret and I were married.
So how did you meet Margaret?
TOM:
Well, strangely enough, I met her on my twenty-first birthday. I was on
leave in Melbourne for a weekend, and I’d always wanted to go ice-skating. And I
went to St Moritz ice-skating rink in St Kilda, and Margaret was there with her sister
and another friend and they asked me would I look after their goods while they went
on the ice, skating. And I said yes, I’d do that. And feeling a bit lonely, I think, for
perhaps conversation, I asked them (clock chimes) would they like some supper
before they went home, and they all ordered steak and eggs! Which was about the
most expensive item on the list.
5
Were you expected to pay?
TOM:
Oh yes, I had to pay. Oh yes, yes. And then to finish up with I put them
in a taxi and sent them home.
That was a mistake, you shouldn’t have sent them home.
TOM:
Absolutely, I shouldn’t have done that at all. Well, that was the beginning
of a sort of a courtship which went on for quite some time, was on and off, and it
was very difficult during war years to keep in touch, apart from a few letterwritings, and that’s about it. Anyway, we met in unusual circumstances. At the end
of the War I was going back to my unit up in Townsville, I think it was, or Cairns,
and I said to a friend of mine – we were in Melbourne on leave, we had leave there
for the weekend – and I said to them, ‘Well, let’s go up to the Exhibition Building,’
I said, ‘there’s a thousand hostesses up there,’ I said. ‘Surely we can find one out of
that lot.’ And it was a Canadian barn dance, I think about the second or third dance
when we got there, and I joined in and I got around to ..... and suddenly who should
– the girl coming towards me was Margaret. And I said, ‘Oh well, we’ll sit this one
out,’ and so we went and sat down. And we talked about things, and then our
relationship blossomed from then on. And I came down back to Melbourne to do
my Officers’ Training School and I got my commission, went back to my unit and
then I came back to Melbourne and we got married. And we were married in Our
Lady of Victory’s Church which is now a basilica in Camper[down] – beautiful
church, absolutely magnificent – and whenever we go back to Melbourne we always
go back and say a few prayers in the basilica.
Was it a big wedding?
TOM:
Oh no, just a – you know.
MARGARET:
It was a big wedding for those days. (clock chimes, break in
recording)
We just had an interlude for the ’fridge. Tom, I asked you whether, was it a big
wedding.
TOM:
Yes, it was a big wedding, yes.
And did your parents go across from South Australia?
6
TOM:
Yes, they came down from Peterborough with a cousin of mine called
Rosalie Victory[?], and of course my brother and his wife, because my brother was
the best man.
Who was that?
TOM:
Naish. There’d only be two brothers, only two of us in my family, Naish
and myself. And Margaret’s two sisters were the bridesmaids.
And you were telling me you had a bit of trouble, there was a seat shortage on The
Overland1.
TOM:
(laughs) Oh yes, yes. Yes, we had to do a little bit of wheeling and
dealing to get on The Overland, but I managed it.
How much did that cost you?
TOM:
It cost me five pounds extra. (laughs)
That was under the – – –?
TOM:
Under the ....., yes. Well, that’s what you had to do to get on the train.
And of course we were more or less desperate, in order to get over there for the
wedding, so I had little choice.
That’s right.
TOM:
But everything turned out all right, so that’s the main thing.
And, Margaret, where were you working at this time, when you met Tom?
MARGARET:
I worked in an office until I joined up, which only amounted to
three or four months in an office, and then I joined the Air Force, WAAAFs 2, and I
was sent to the medical headquarters and then I was posted to a station, it was a
hospital, at Cressy Station down the Western District, and another posting up to
operational hospital, and I was there in the hospital area, or medical area, for three
and a half to four years, and got my discharge. And instead of buying – I never had
a civilian thing to my name, so we made our wedding date to fit in with me
particularly, because I had to buy all new clothes because I was coming out of the
1
The Overland – train between South Australia and Melbourne.
2
WAAAF – Women’s Auxiliary Australian Air Force.
7
services, so I made that my wedding trousseau at the same time. And I didn’t want
to go back to work – I could have had my office job back, but I didn’t want to do
that seeing as I only had a few months to go before we were married.
So you weren’t involved in the nursing side of – – –?
MARGARET:
No, I was administration, all administration in nursing. But being
in administration in a hospital you were involved with a lot of administering drugs
or nursing in the hospital because they were so short of nurses in hospitals in
districts, because most of the Registered Nurses were overseas and so they were
short of Registered Nurses to handle hospitals.
Apart from administration,
admitting and carrying out the medical ordered by the doctor and things like that, I
still wasn’t a Registered Nurse, I was just in medical administration.
And you were saying a while ago that you’d come across to Adelaide on occasions.
MARGARET:
I’d never been to Adelaide before I met Tom, I came across to
meet Tom’s family. And fortunately, being in uniform, I managed to get across on
aircraft that were flying across, somebody would contact me, one of the pilots would
contact me, and they knew I was engaged and they said, ‘Do you want to go across
for the weekend to see your fiancé?’ and that’s how I did it. Used to go out from
Flemington, they’d ..... from Flemington.
And was that a freebie?
MARGARET:
That was a freebie, there was no money exchanged, anything like
that, it was just that you had to know the right people at the right time.
That’s right through life, isn’t it?
MARGARET:
Right through life. And I would never have got across, I would
never have got that much leave to come across by train – if I could have got on the
train. But flying across like that, I was over within a few hours and able to meet up
with Tom. It was only for a weekend, and I’d go back to the hospital again at Ascot
Park, where I was working in the Toorak Hospital, until my discharge. And then
they took months to give me my discharge because my surname started with a ‘C’
and they mislaid it by –
TOM:
Filing it.
8
MARGARET:
– filing it under ‘G’, and they had to go through all the alphabet
that was looking like a ‘C’ until they found it. So I was in uniform right up till
about two or three weeks before I was married.
So what was your maiden name?
MARGARET:
Crick, C-R-I-C-K.
Now, where did you come from in Victoria?
MARGARET:
Gippsland. I was born in Sale, then my parents went down to
what they called Childers, it’s very close to Thorpdale where they had a dairy farm,
and grew potatoes. (sound of interference with microphone)
We’ll just leave that on there, I think. If we just put it on here, we’ll get the both
of you. (unrelated comments) Now, what did your parents do in Gippsland?
MARGARET:
They had a big dairy farm and potato growing, because Gippsland
is very big growing potato.
So they were off the land.
MARGARET:
Off the land, yes, off the land.
Had you ever heard of Peterborough in your life, in South Australia?
MARGARET:
Never, never, no. Oh, when you went interstate those days was
like going overseas, you know, it was a big deal. If the money was available. And
then in 1933 the big Depression and my people lost everything, and they ended up
going down to Melbourne to live. So everybody in those areas up round there that
had properties, they did lose them through the Depression. And went to school
down here in Melbourne and then I went into an office – after leaving school I went
into an office, and then to an office in the Air Force, and that was the finish. There
was no such thing as teenage years with the War being on. And I had two sisters,
one was in the Navy, a WRAN 3 in the Navy, and the other one, the government
wouldn’t let – she was in what they called ‘compulsory work’ and they wouldn’t
give her a clearance, otherwise she would have joined the Army. And people used
to say to my mother, ‘Aren’t you lucky you haven’t got a son that’s joined up in the
3
WRANS – Women’s Royal Australian Naval Service.
9
services?’ And she said, ‘But I’ve got two girls in uniform,’ she said, ‘and the third
one would be there if she was allowed to go, too.’ But they wouldn’t free her to go.
So farming life wasn’t really new to you.
MARGARET:
Not the land, no. I was born in Sale, that’s Gippsland way.
But did that prepare you for what you found at Peterborough?
MARGARET:
Probably no, no, but it was the country, you see. I was from the
country. The city life – I mean, that’s another kind of life. So when you’re born in
the country and you’ve spent your – I think I was about twelve or something when
we left the country, so I spent most of my growing up years in the country, and just
coming down to the city to finish off my education. And no sooner (clock chimes)
I’d got through that than war broke out. And that was about the extent of it then.
You were telling me a while ago about you met a bloke from Yunta when you
were in the Air Force?
MARGARET:
Oh, that was quite interesting. I was sent to Central Gunnery
School, that was down near Colac, and I was posted down there into the RAAF 4
Hospital, and there was about probably ten, fifteen miles, there was a – a car came
for me, a transport driver, and got talking on the way home, back to the station, and
I asked the driver, ‘Where did you come from?’ He said, ‘I come from Yunta.’ And
he said, ‘You heard of it?’ And I said, ‘No.’ And I said, ‘All I’ve heard of South
Australia is Peterborough.’ I said, ‘I don’t know if you know of anybody at
Peterborough, I don’t know where it is, but I don’t know if you know it,’ and I said,
‘His name is Tom Casey.’ He said, ‘Oh yes, I know Tom Casey.’ I said, ‘Well,
he’s the fellow I write to.’ (laughs) I said, ‘I met him and I write to him, and that’s
all I know about Adelaide.’
So after the wedding, did you have a honeymoon at all?
MARGARET:
TOM:
4
Yes. Tom was lucky enough to – – –.
Yes, we went to Sydney.
RAAF – Royal Australian Air Force.
10
MARGARET:
Went to Sydney. He was lucky enough, being an officer in the
Army, he was lucky enough to pull a couple of strings and get us to Sydney for a
honeymoon.
You were still on active service then, Tom, you were still in the Army?
TOM:
Yes.
What year, when did you get married?
MARGARET:
It was ’46, January 12, ’46.
Oh, so the War was over but you were still – – –.
MARGARET:
It was over, yes, it was over in the August, the War, and it took all
that time then to clear up and – – –. A lot didn’t get their discharge as early as I did.
I put in for it – since I was engaged I put in for it straight away, and I had a pretty
good run through because I was planning on getting married, getting my discharge.
And then, after our honeymoon, we came back to Melbourne and then back here to
Adelaide because Tom was at the Wayville, he was still stationed over here. He
only had certain leave. And we got a nice flat at Glenelg, and he was in the Army,
and we lived there until Tom got his discharge later, round the April, round about
that time, then we went to Peterborough to live and we were living with his parents
there for twelve months until they went back into the hotel. And they went back
into the hotel when the lease was up in there, and we had to live with them until the
lease was up in the hotel.
Okay, we’ll go back a bit from there. Tom, at this stage where were your parents
living?
TOM:
Living where?
In Peterborough?
TOM:
Living at the hotel. During the war years they were living out at the
property, ...... Park.
Yes. Now, we’ll go back to when you lived in the hotel as a boy. What do you
remember about growing up in the hotel in Peterborough?
TOM:
I remember that I had to take the cow, which we used to have at the hotel
for milk, I had to take the cow up to a vacant block north of the hotel, the other side
11
of Bridger Street, where there was plenty of grass and so forth, that was my daily
chores in the morning before I went to school. And I used to hate it because in the
springtime the magpies used to nest and they used to swoop onto me. Oh, they were
vicious, absolutely vicious! As a matter of fact, I had a stick one day and I hit one,
he came right down so close to me, I hit him with the stick. And I complained to
my dad about it and he just laughed, he just thought it was a lot of fun. But they
were some of the things that I disliked. Oh, another thing was we used to get a lot
of wood sawn up by the Howard brothers and we had to stack all this wood in the
sheds. And we really worked, this was at weekends.
Where was the Howard wood yard?
TOM:
In the main street, in the main street just west of the Federal Hotel.
And how did it get delivered to your place, to the back of your hotel?
TOM:
Oh, usually by some of the wood cutters. I think Alan Crack[?] was one,
if I remember correctly.
MARGARET:
TOM:
He had a horse – – –.
They used to bring it in in truckloads. Oh, we used to have a lot of wood
sawn up, a lot of wood, because in the wintertime, you can imagine Peterborough,
being very cold, there used to be fires everywhere – in every room that we had in the
hotel, practically. In the commercial rooms where the travellers used to do all their
homework, and in the parlours we had fires, and in my parents’ office was a fire in
there, and then of course in the front bar and the saloon bar we had fires. So you
can imagine that a lot of wood was burnt over the twelve months period, particularly
in the wintertime.
You mentioned the parlours, what were they?
TOM:
Oh, rooms where you could go and sit down and read or play cards.
Mostly for the boarders of the hotel. See, there could have been anything up to ten
boarders at one time at the hotel.
And did you have much involvement with the hotel, like did you get behind the
bar at all as a kid?
12
TOM:
Oh yes, oh yes. I used to operate in the front bar on occasions, and then
also in the saloon bar. And then back in the ’30s we used to bottle quarts, and I used
to do all the bottling of the quarts, a quart bottle, for beer. As a matter of fact, one
burst one time and hit me in the chin and I had to have five stitches in the chin. I
was lucky it didn’t get me in the eye. After that I had to wear a mask.
Yes?
TOM:
Yes, big mask over. Just in case as soon as you turned the tap on to let
the gas in, if the quart had a slight crack in it of course she’d just blow, she’d burst.
So what was the mask made of?
TOM:
Oh, just fine mesh.
Oh, similar to flywire.
TOM:
Yes, something like that, yes. Bit stronger than flywire.
So the beer you put in these quarts, that was still beer then you carbonated it?
TOM:
No, no, no. Oh yes, yes, it came out of the keg, straight out. First of all
you’d put the gas in, then you’d put the beer in, then you’d put the cork in.
And the kegs, were they the wooden kegs?
TOM:
Yes, the wooden kegs, yes. And we never ever got, to my knowledge, in
all the kegs that I bottled, all the beer out of the kegs that I bottled, we never got the
correct amount of beer.
Now, why do you reckon that might have been?
TOM:
I don’t know. But a ten-gallon keg, there were four quarts in a gallon,
you’d expect forty – – –. You’d only get about thirty-eight.
I’ve heard stories of some of the railway workers tapping the kegs, that could
have been the reason.
TOM:
Well, that’s possible. No, they used to swipe bottles. Not kegs, bottles.
So how was the beer delivered to your hotel?
TOM:
Well, by the Howard brothers. They had a horse and a flat-top tray and
they used to load all this stuff onto there and deliver it around to the different hotels
13
and so forth, and that’s how the beer was delivered from Peterborough Railway
Station to the different hotels and businesses.
So they picked it up from the railway station and –
TOM:
Yes.
– delivered it.
TOM:
Yes.
And where did they store the beer, was it downstairs?
TOM:
Yes, we had a cellar. We used to put the kegs on a chute with ropes
around it and let it go down slowly, and then bring another keg. Anything up to
perhaps five eighteens and five tens down in the cellar, together with all our bottled
beer.
Was bottled beer a big thing back then?
TOM:
No, not a big thing, no. You’d often – people would come in and get a
bottle of draught beer rather than buy the bottled beer, it was cheaper.
Now, what was the difference?
TOM:
What, in price?
No, between the draught beer and the bottled beer?
TOM:
Oh well, the same thing applies today. You go into a hotel and you have
draught beer, if you go into – and you buy a carton of beer, that’s bottled beer. Not
much difference really, except the price structure. And of course draught beer is
always cheaper than the bottled beer. I used to also bottle wine out of kegs into
750ml bottles. That used to sell in those days for two shillings. Two shillings a
bottle.
So it was cheap drugs.
TOM:
Well, yes. There was one fellow used to come out and he used to ask for
his ‘bottle of ink’, (laughs) that’s what he used to call it. ‘Give us a bottle of ink.’
So as a kid do you remember any characters around Peterborough then, who
really stand out?
14
TOM:
Oh yes, there was one particular character, a fellow called Horace Nelson.
Horace Nelson, he had a wife who developed cancer at an early age and she died
and old Horace was left on his own. And he used to deliver the Sunday Mails
around the place, he used to look after the women on saleyards, he used to stoke up
the copper for the women for their hot water to make tea for the afternoon teas for
the chappies in the saleyards. He never did anybody any harm, old Horace, but he
was a bit of a recluse, and I used to bring him in kangaroo tails. He used to love
kangaroo tails. I think he lived on kangaroo tail. And he lived in an old wooden
home down the bottom end of Main Street, and I think what happened was that I
think he must have had a heart attack and he knocked over the kerosene lamp and
his house went up in flames and he went with it, poor old Horace. And he was
buried in the Peterborough Cemetery, and back here a few years ago Sidney
Aileff[?], one of the older inhabitants, got in touch with quite a few of us who knew
old Horace and asked if we’d contribute towards a bit of a tombstone over his grave,
[to] which I was very happy to contribute, because even though he was a bit of a
funny old bloke he never did anybody any harm. Matter of fact, anything that he did
he did a lot of good. Yes, poor old Horace Nelson. He was probably the most
outstanding bloke that I can remember in Peterborough.
MARGARET:
TOM:
How old would he have been in those days?
(coughs) Excuse me.
How old would he have been?
MARGARET:
Yes, I said to him, ‘How old would he have been in those days he
used to boil up the copper for us and everything?’
TOM:
Oh, I suppose he’d be in his fifties. I reckon he would have been in his
sixties when he died, old Horace. But of course he lived – you know, he always
looked dirty, old Horace, you know. I don’t think he ever had a bath. He probably
had a wash but he probably never had a bath. But anyway, as I said, he never did
anybody any harm. Anything he did, he did a lot of good.
And so this was in the six o’clock closing era, wasn’t it?
TOM:
Yes.
15
So did the pub keep operating after six on a big scale?
TOM:
No. No, no, no. The only time you could operate after six o’clock was if
you got a special permit, there might have been something on (clock chimes) in the
town that warranted a special dispensation from the Liquor people, and we used to
get – occasionally we’d get a permit to operate up until eleven o’clock at night. Few
and far between.
And what about the boarders who lived in the hotel?
TOM:
Yes, they could get a drink any time.
Oh, right.
TOM:
That was no problem. And then there came an order from the Licensing
Court that travellers that travelled over – I think it was over a hundred miles, I think,
in those days, if they arrived at a hotel they could get a drink after hours. But they
had to sign a document to say that they’d travelled over a hundred miles, their last
port of call was so-and-so. He was a bona fide traveller.
Do you think that system was abused?
TOM:
Oh, I think it was, yes. I think it was.
And so you left Peterborough at the end of primary school.
TOM:
Yes, that’s right. At the end of primary school I came down here to
Adelaide, and then when I completed my secondary education I went back on the
property.
Can you tell us about how your dad got this property, where it was?
TOM:
Yes. Well, the property was seven miles east of Peterborough, which is
about ten k’s5, and it used to be the headquarters of the railway picnic crowd. They
used to operate in this property. It was owned by a fellow called Baum[?] and he
went broke back in the mid-’30s, and it came up for sale in 1936. And my father
took a liking to this property and he purchased it, and I think he had an idea that I
might go onto the land because my mother was off the land and I used to show an
inclination of going out to my grandmother’s property one mile from Peterborough,
16
every opportunity I’d get I’d go out onto Malachies’ farm. So after the secondary
school I went onto the property and I worked there for a couple of years until I
joined the Army.
So was anyone living on the property prior to that?
TOM:
What, prior to my dad purchasing it?
No, like your family – when he bought it, did he live there?
TOM:
No. No, he lived in the hotel. And there was a cousin of mine came and
worked on the property for a while, his name was Cleat Crowhurst[?], and he used
to work the stations up in the north-east, he used to work at Panoramity[?], and I
think he used to work on Moonaroo[?] dam-sinking, I think, at one stage.
MARGARET:
TOM:
Who was this .....?
Anyway, he left and then he came to Adelaide.
MARGARET:
Where did Lil get the house called ‘Lil’s House’, where did that
come from?
TOM:
Oh, during the War, my father leased the hotel at Peterborough because
both Naish and myself, my brother and myself, we were in the Army. And Dad
engaged a fellow called Harry Lambert and he had a wife called Lil. And there was
a little house at the back of the main house at Amelia Park, and because Harry’s
wife was called Lil we called it ‘Lil’s House’. But what I didn’t tell you was that,
when Dad bought the property, it didn’t have a name actually so he called it Amelia
Park after my mother, whose name was Amelia.
So your dad had had no farming experience?
TOM:
No, none whatsoever.
You mentioned that he used to drive cattle down through – – –.
TOM:
Yes, sometimes he did, yes, with somebody else. He was only a young
fellow.
5
Kilometres.
17
MARGARET:
Where did the property get – because I’ve always known it as ‘the
ranch’. Where did that come from?
TOM:
Well, when we were in the hotel business after Dad purchased the
property, I think it was Naish said, ‘Oh, we’ll call it “the ranch”.’ It was only .....
...... ..... because Malachies’ was ‘the farm’. If you were going to go to ‘the farm’
you’d go to Malachies’ farm. But we settled on the word ‘the ranch’.
Just to differentiate between them.
TOM:
Yes, that’s right.
Malachies, is that Hillview?
TOM:
Yes.
Just south of Peterborough.
TOM:
Yes, that’s right.
That’s the family property.
TOM:
That’s the Malachie, the old Malachies family’s, yes. My grandmother
Francesca and her husband Peter, they lived there. Their whole family were born
there.
So after your high schooling down here you went back to the farm –
TOM:
Yes.
– to the ranch.
TOM:
Yes, for about eighteen months before I joined the Army.
And did you live there on your own?
TOM:
Yes. I used to sleep out on the veranda.
And how did you take to the – was it farming, or grazing?
TOM:
No, grazing. Oh yes, I liked it, I thought it was great, yes.
Then the War intervened and – – –.
TOM:
Yes. It took a big slice out of your life. Particularly a young life, you
know. I was only twenty, I think, when I joined up, and (coughs) you get out when
you’re about twenty-five, you’ve got all those years that you’ve got to account for.
18
It’s a long time. But I wouldn’t have swapped it, I enjoyed it. I met a lot of good
friends, made a lot of good mates. I still keep in touch with some of them after all
these years.
MARGARET:
Well, it’s a bit like me. I’ve got three or four, we’ve kept in touch
often, every month or so we give one another a ring. One’s in Western Australia,
one’s in Queensland, one’s in Victoria and I’m in South Australia. But we ring, we
talk as if we’ve just seen each other last week. And it’ll probably always be like
that.
And so when you returned to the farm, did you take Margaret with you?
TOM:
Yes.
What did you think when you first saw the farm, Margaret?
MARGARET:
Well, as I said, as Tom said, I wondered what things live on up
there. All I saw was dust and stones, and of course it was December when I first
met Tom’s people. We married in January and went up there to live in the April. I
couldn’t believe how icy cold it got in the winter, that was hard to believe. And it’s
funny, the north gets into your blood. I wasn’t looking forward to going back to
Victoria and I never had itchy feet to go back to Victoria. I just loved the climate,
the dry, hot climate, and it used to get so hot up there. And of course then the
children, you had the babies, you were busy, and I used to help Tom milk the cows
and help him whenever I could outside, and he helped me with the children at tea
time, and I’d put them to bed and he’d wash the tea dishes. I mean, we worked so
well together – – –.
END OF TAPE 1 SIDE A: TAPE 1 SIDE B
MARGARET:
– – – Baptists, and it was very obvious they did not like Catholics.
But they were quite good friends – the ladies were. And it was one thing in
particular that comes to mind, it was Tom built the woolshed and that was a great
day when that was built. But before that they used to always have card –
TOM:
Euchre evenings.
MARGARET:
– Euchre evenings, and they visited one another’s homes, mainly
the Baptists, you know, and they’d invite us along because we were extras in the
19
district. But this particular day the woolshed was completed and we decided to have
an opening, and the proceeds were to go to the Red Cross. So it was quite new in
the town to have a woolshed and have a woolshed dance, and so all the ladies got
together and they thought they’d put on the supper, and we had this dance, we had
an orchestra or a band, [whatever] you’d like to call it, and I cleaned out a couple of
the rooms in the house and decorated them and got all the rooms all ready for the
card players because I knew all the people around us were card players – mostly,
ninety-nine per cent of the Baptist people, all euchre players, and I thought, ‘Now,
that’ll be something for the oldies’ and the ones that didn’t dance, they could come
and have euchre in the home. Cleaned out the house and got it all decorated and
everything and that night came and the band arrived and hundreds of people came,
and nobody came to the house for the euchre. I thought, ‘Well, maybe it’s later on.”
But it got to the stage where we had so many people come to the dance, one crowd
used to come in and dance, then they’d have to move out to let the other crowd
come in because there were so many of them. But still no euchre players. And it
got back to me that ‘They don’t visit Catholics’ homes, Baptists.’ So therefore I
never had one euchre player visit the home for euchre, but they were all just people
from the town that came out for the dance and the party.
Was that religious bigotry common back then?
MARGARET:
TOM:
Yes.
It was then. Not so much today. Not so much today.
And it always seemed anti-Catholics, didn’t it?
TOM:
Yes, it was. Yes, even the Methodists, they were very anti-Catholic.
MARGARET:
But it was very, very evident, to think, going to all that trouble
and that lovely supper and the home was all done up and all the tables all ready, all
ready to play euchre, and not one soul turned up.
Did that hurt a lot?
MARGARET:
Well, those days you didn’t know very much. But one of the
ladies told me, ‘You know why, don’t you?’ She was – that was Mrs Lang[?] –
TOM:
Yes.
20
MARGARET:
– Limpy Lang – she said, ‘You know why they didn’t come,
Margaret?’ And I said, ‘No, I’ve got no idea, I’ve never come up against anything
like this. I thought you all play euchre around the district and I just thought that
would be it.’ And she said, she told me, Mrs Lang told me, that was the reason why
they wouldn’t come into the home, because it was a Catholic home.
TOM:
Yes, that was right.
The Baptist was very strong at Ucolta though, wasn’t it?
TOM:
Yes, they were, very strong.
MARGARET:
Well, there was, not so long before we left up there, there was a
chappie came out to visit us, he happened to be the Baptist Minister. And we had
him inside, we had afternoon tea, we had a couple of hours’ chat, and when we took
him – he said he must go now, went out and we shook hands, he said, ‘You’re very,
very welcome to come across to my church every Sunday.’ And then Tom said,
‘But we have our own religion and we go to our church, so no, thank you for the
invitation but we’ll go to our own church.’ He said, ‘Oh,’ he said, ‘I used to live
next door to Catholics, next door to a Casey family, and they weren’t Catholics,’
and he said, ‘and I just took it for granted that you weren’t Catholic.’ And he never
spoke to us from that day to this. We just weren’t the right colour. (laughs)
Same colour!
MARGARET:
Same colour, but we weren’t the right breed.
You mentioned Limpy Lang, who was he?
TOM:
Well, he had a property at Peterborough. That was his nickname, Limpy,
because he used to walk with a bit of a limp. And his wife was a very, very nice
lady, she wasn’t a bit bigoted at all. And Limpy, he wasn’t that bigoted either, he
was a pretty down-to-earth sort of a bloke, and we used to get on very well as
neighbours.
Where was his place?
TOM:
Just north of Peterborough, just off the Peterborough-Dawson road.
Was that Dilly’s father, Bob’s father?
21
TOM:
No. Laurie Lang was the son.
Oh yes, yes.
TOM:
Laurie.
Laurie’s still in Peterborough. He sold the place.
TOM:
He sold the place. Malachies bought it, I think.
Oh, yes.
TOM:
Because they own just about half of Peterborough, Malachies.
MARGARET:
She was a lovely lady. She was just one of you, you know,
regardless of what religion or anything.
TOM:
She was very down-to-earth.
So the shearing shed was a big occasion.
TOM:
Oh, absolutely, yes.
MARGARET:
TOM:
And do you know – – –.
We had several dances at the woolshed.
MARGARET:
To raise money for the Red Cross mainly, because Tom’s
(doorbell rings) –
TOM:
There’s somebody there, Marg.
MARGARET:
TOM:
– Tom’s mother was Red Cross President.
There’s a lady there. (break in recording)
So the woolshed dance was a big occasion.
TOM:
Oh, absolutely terrific.
You said, Margaret, the woolsheds were – like a decent woolshed would have been
a bit of a scarcity, was it?
TOM:
Oh, it was up in Peterborough, yes. Of course, the old woolshed up at
Parnaroo[?], that was a very good Mecca for dancing. That was in vogue when my
mother was a girl, and of course since then they’ve put a new jarrah floor in and
everything. And Peter Malachie was mixed up with it for quite a number of years.
22
But it suddenly died a sudden death, Parnaroo. It used to be a great night out at
Parnaroo, ooh, yes.
MARGARET:
The floors, you had to scrape candle to get the wax, sawdust, and
they really worked on the floor to get it for dancing.
Was this before the shearing or after?
MARGARET:
No, this was before. This is when it was opened.
Oh, before there’d been any sheep across the board?
MARGARET:
Oh no, no, no sheep had been in that shed before the woolshed
was – – –.
TOM:
No.
MARGARET:
No, it was brand new. And Tom went out with the utility and he
picked up hundreds of bottles around the paddock! (laughs)
TOM:
Of course, we had to get a permit to say that there was going to be liquor
consumed on this property, and they weren’t allowed to drink within a hundred
metres of the property or thereabouts. But that didn’t make any difference, they
were drinking – – –.
MARGARET:
But they were all around, the empty bottles, all around the
paddock. (laughs)
TOM:
Yes.
So this building of the shed was in the 1950s, you said.
TOM:
Yes.
Was that due to a material shortage?
TOM:
Yes. It was very difficult in those days, yes. But I managed it.
What was the quality of the material? Like you said a lot of it was Japanese.
TOM:
Yes, very good. Very good, yes.
So what was the Japanese component?
TOM:
Cement, then galvanised iron.
23
And where did you get them from?
TOM:
I go the cement from Adelaide and the galvanised iron, I think that came
from Adelaide too. And all the timber came from Geddes at Pirie.
So there was none of this ordering through your local stock firm back then?
TOM:
No. No, nothing. I don’t think so. I can’t remember, but – – –. I might
have got the cement through Elders, I might have, but I can’t remember. That’s a
possibility.
Did you do the building yourself?
TOM:
Yes, I did everything except put the roof on. That was too much for me
and I got special carpenters to put that up.
Where did you get them?
TOM:
There was a contractor called Jim Haines, he had a contract to build some
Housing Trust homes in Peterborough, and he used to board at the hotel. And my
dad asked him would he make his – when they finished the houses, would he make
his carpenters available to put the roof on this shed and he said yes, he’d do that. So
Dad paid for the carpenters to put the roof on, yes. But I made fifteen hundred
bricks: one thousand, five hundred bricks I made. And it turned out very good,
very good.
MARGARET:
Well, it’s still standing. (laughs)
What did you do before you had the shearing shed, how did you get on with the
shearing?
TOM:
Oh, there was an old shed there with a straw roof and mallee uprights.
It’d rain and all the water would come down over the shearers – oh, it was terrible.
And I put up with it for twelve months and I knew what the, you know, the
crutchings we used to do there, and I used to do my own crutching. It’d rain, the
water would come down, down your back of the neck and all this sort of business
and I said, ‘Bulldoze the whole show.’ So I pulled it all down and started to build
this new one.
My dad didn’t think it’d eventuate, neither did my uncles, the
Malachies. They didn’t think I’d build it.
24
Where did you get your building skills, did you just pick them up? Your building
skills, did you just pick them up through experience?
TOM:
Yes, just through – yes, it’s not difficult. How to use a plumb line, that’s
all.
And you were saying before how it was the Casey boys used to shear there?
TOM:
Shear there, yes. They shore there for quite a few years. And then we
had different blokes over the years, I can’t remember them all now. Murray Abbott
was another one.
MARGARET:
TOM:
Tom Mercer, yes, he was another one.
MARGARET:
TOM:
Mercer.
Peter Malachie.
Yes, Peter was only there for a couple of years. Taught him how to shear,
when we’d taught him how to shear he didn’t come back.
So how many stands did the new shed have?
TOM:
Three. Three stands. And for the first few years we only used to use two,
and now John’s up there now, he bought more property and runs more sheep, he
runs three stands now. The only trouble with it is now there’s not quite enough
holding overnight. If it rains overnight there’s only enough there for two hundred
sheep, it holds two hundred. Perhaps two hundred and ten, something like that. So
it’s only enough there for a run for two shearers. But, oh well, if John wants to
build more he’ll have to build more, won’t he?
Right.
TOM:
Simple as that.
You’ll have to go and help him.
TOM:
No, not now, I’ve finished. No, I’ve done all the helping, I’ve had – gee,
I used to go up and help with fencing and putting his crops in. Yes, I did a lot. I
can’t do it now.
MARGARET:
TOM:
Well, that was years ago. He was the age where he could do it.
I was fit.
25
You showed me this newspaper cutting.
TOM:
Yes.
Dated 1940. Can you tell me a bit about it? It’s a cartoon, or a caricature, isn’t
it?
TOM:
Yes.
What’s it actually – it’s to do with sport, I can see that.
TOM:
Yes. Well, this was just prior to the game when we were going to play
Sturt, and it was going to be my first League game with North Adelaide.
This was Australian Rules football.
TOM:
Yes. And I met this chappie only about a month ago, Colin Amott[?]. He
said to me, ‘You’re Tom Casey, aren’t you?’ And I said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘I’m Colin
Amott.’ I said, ‘Go on, Colin, how are you?’ Yes, that’s him. So this chappie was
in the Air Force and I played half back for North Adelaide, and they got me hanging
on to the tail, half back. So that was the significance of that.
So these are all blokes in uniform?
TOM:
Well, we eventually did go into uniform. I just wasn’t in uniform at that
time, I went into uniform just after that, 1940.
So who’s the flying pencil?
TOM:
Who’s that?
Tall, skinny bloke, is it?
TOM:
I can’t – – –. (sound of rustling paper) Oh, that’s Marcus Oliphant.
Oh, right.
TOM:
He was a champion footballer from Victoria who came over here and he
played for Sturt.
He went on to be the Governor. Marcus Oliphant, the Governor?
TOM:
No, no.
Oh, right.
26
TOM:
Marcus – no, not Oliphant. No, another name. But he was a champion
footballer in Victoria and he came over and played for Sturt. Can’t think of his
name. I think that’s who it is, wouldn’t swear to it.
So just back to the ’50s, you’d settled in to life on Amelia Park. Did you have any
children?
TOM:
Yes, we had six children. A boy, two girls, a boy, two girls. And the
eldest boy, John, he’s on the property now. Our eldest girl, Judy, she’s living in
America.
What does she do?
TOM:
She’s a stenographer. She lives in Los Angeles. The next daughter, she
lives here in Adelaide.
What’s her name?
TOM:
Colleen, Colleen Renshaw.
Did she marry Tony’s brother?
TOM:
No, she married – – –.
MARGARET:
TOM:
Ralph, Ralph Renshaw’s son.
Ralph Renshaw, he used to be in the – – –.
Tony Renshaw’s their second son, he’s a CEO in Orroroo Council.
MARGARET:
TOM:
That’s right, that’s right, so it is.
And then the next one is Stephen, well he’s in America, he’s got a big
business in California, he’s got four children.
What does he do over there?
TOM:
He’s got his own business which is pre-cast concrete mantels. Around
fireplaces, the mantel and the surrounds. It’s all done with pre-cast concrete. And
he’s in a big way, a real big way. He’s got about forty blokes working for him, he
runs about ten trucks, they go all over California and into –
MARGARET:
TOM:
Nevada.
– yes, into Nevada, yes.
27
MARGARET:
And as far down as Los Angeles, which is like five hundred miles
away from Sacramento, where he is.
Oh, so they’ve gone a long way from Peterborough.
TOM:
Oh yes, yes.
Or from Ucolta.
TOM:
Absolutely. And then the two after that, two girls, Marie, Marie married
Adrian Saterno[?] from thue Saterno brothers, you know, the ‘Booze Brothers’?
Yes, she married Adrian.
And then Bernadette, of course, she was born in
Melbourne, she lives at One Tree Hill. She’s got two daughters. And Marie’s got
two sons, Paul, who’s assistant manager of a big hotel in Sydney; and Luke has just
gone overseas backpacking for twelve months.
MARGARET:
TOM:
And he graduated from university only last month, Luke did.
So he’s got his degree and he’s going to utilise that to get jobs over in
Europe while he’s there. And he’ll come back via the [United] States [of America]
– he’ll call on Stephen, say hello to him.
Six kids, did they keep you very busy, Margaret?
MARGARET:
Yes, because it was six under ten.
Oh, right, so you were – – –. And you had no washing machine?
MARGARET:
No, not for quite a few years. No, it was all hand washing. And
when I did get a machine you still had to wring, do the wringing, and then they
improved it and it was a Simpson, and then you could – that was –
TOM:
Automatic.
MARGARET:
– automatic, yes.
That was the agitator with the wringer.
MARGARET:
TOM:
Yes, yes.
And of course you had to run the motor with your 32-volt because it took
too much power, and it didn’t matter what you used on a 32-volt, a vacuum cleaner
or a washing machine or whatever, you had to run the motor. Even the ironing. It
took too much out of the battery so you had to keep recharging all the time.
28
MARGARET:
And I ironed everything, their singlets and their pants, oh, you
name them, (laughs) I used to iron everything.
Did you have a Freelight[?] at that stage?
TOM:
Yes, I put a Freelight in, I bought one from Brisbane, from Dunlite[?], and
I put that up. But that was a sort of, you know, a standby, but it wasn’t a great
success.
MARGARET:
And as for cleaning, it was all carpet right through and for many
years I used to use the old straw broom, and of course now there’s, this age, I think
back, I probably caused more dust with this broom than was already there because
I’d stir it up. And once I had it all done the dust would settle again. So to think all
those days and all those hours that went into sweeping with the straw broom, I
probably made more dust than what was already there.
You know that yesterday I was talking to Wally[?]?
MARGARET:
TOM:
Yes.
Yes.
Actually ..... ..... talking about Wally and Flavi[?], on and off.
MARGARET:
TOM:
Yes.
Yes.
Can you tell me about how Wally came to be at your place?
MARGARET:
It was through Flavi, Tom got to know a lot of these New
Australians6 that came out, and it was through Flavi and Tom. Flavi asked you if
we’d take her, because it’s the only way he could get her out here.
I’ll just correct you, she was in Bonegilla.
TOM:
That’s right.
But she couldn’t leave Bonegilla until she had a job.
MARGARET:
6
Until she had a job.
Immigrants.
29
So you knew Flavi?
TOM:
Yes, I’d met him through the other railway blokes. Not a great deal with
Flavi. He was a very reticent type of bloke, he didn’t converse very much, Flavi.
Mainly I think – I don’t know whether it was on account of his English, I don’t
know. But he was a very nice fellow, very nice chap, and a good man at his job.
You couldn’t fault him as far as that was concerned. He did a good job. And we
were only too happy to have –
MARGARET:
TOM:
Wally.
– Wally ..... Yes. But, as I said, she couldn’t understand a word of
English! (laughs)
MARGARET:
TOM:
But she didn’t know – – –.
But I’ll tell you what, it didn’t take her long to pick it up. She did a good
job, yes.
MARGARET:
When she came she didn’t know what a broom was, cup, saucer,
nothing.
TOM:
I remember Bailey[?] came out to see me one day and he said, ‘You
know,’ he said, ‘..... should have a day off.’ And I said, ‘Yeah, all right.’ He said,
‘You know, you don’t work seven days a week,’ he said, ‘you get one day off.’ And
I said, ‘All right, fair enough.’ And he come out on the Saturday or Sunday,
whatever it was, pick her up and take her into Peterborough.
MARGARET:
But we didn’t think of having a day off because we never worked
her like a domestic, she was – we gave her a home and tried to teach her, and we
took her into the family as one, for seven days a week. Never dreamt that she
should have a day off.
TOM:
I didn’t mind her taking off, that’s all right, nothing wrong with that.
MARGARET:
TOM:
That was all right.
She was entitled to that.
MARGARET:
As long as he came and got her. But at that time she was just one
of the family.
30
TOM:
I never even gave it a thought, you know. Because I didn’t want to go to
Flavi and say, ‘Listen, you’d better pick up your girlfriend and take her out for a
day’ or something like that, you know. I had no idea. I didn’t even give it a
thought. But when he suggested, you know, ‘Got to have a day off,’ well, that’s all
right, you know. (laughs) I’m pleased he mentioned it.
MARGARET:
Because we, more or less, it was a kind of favour to start with –
not that I really wanted the help. It was wonderful to have somebody there, but half
the time (laughs) for a long time there I was teaching her all the time, my time was
going into teaching her or showing her what to do. Because everything I did, I had
to explain it. But that didn’t worry me at all.
She started to learn English fairly quick.
TOM:
Yes, she was a bright girl, yes.
She was a bright girl.
She could
understand you more than she could speak it, naturally; that’s the way it goes for a
start.
She mentioned yesterday that she remembered John was about five, and that
Mum was going to smack John so John ran to her and – – –. (laughter)
MARGARET:
Oh, I wouldn’t doubt it.
Looking for protection.
TOM:
That’d be right.
MARGARET:
Well, you see, John was five, that meant Judy was four and
Colleen was eighteen months after that, so that meant I had the three of them and
she was there then. Oh, I might have only had the two – – –.
So you got to know quite a few of the Baltic migrants.
TOM:
Yes, I did. Particularly the – oh, I got to know some German boys and I
got to know some Polish boys, the one lives down here at Glenunga, Ted
Giltoski[?], 0he was a guard there. And I got to know Ted through the fact that –
through the Polish community. And there was quite a lot of Poles, I think.
Was that through the church?
MARGARET:
No.
31
Did the church play much role in that?
TOM:
No, not a great deal, no.
MARGARET:
You see, we were out of the town, they had nowhere to go, and it
was nice to pile in and come out, and of course I always had afternoon tea laid on.
It was only afternoon tea. It’d be nothing for five or six to be in the lounge, just
sitting, talking in their own tongue or trying to catch on, learn. And being in the
country and being a cook you’d always have plenty to eat, plenty of supper,
afternoon tea, and they’d make it their Sunday, their day off, you see? And they’d
come out – this is when they’d – pigeons, go for a walk, have a look around – – –.
And there was one German chappie there, I don’t remember his name, but he saw
my – I’ve got a coffee set there, that gold one, you might see some there – and this
German chappie said, ‘My gosh,’ he said, ‘how did you come to have that?’ It
turned out that was the best kind of coffee set the Germans put out. And I’d bought
it about three or four years after I married in Melbourne, but I wouldn’t have a clue
now what it would be worth, I didn’t even – and it could have been quite different
the price over there. But he picked it up. He was ..... looking at it, he said, ‘That’s
from Germany,’ he said, ‘that’s one of our prize pieces.’
So did you notice, when the migrants came to Peterborough, did they really have a
big impact on the area?
TOM:
Well, only for the migrants, the railways wouldn’t have been able to run.
That happened right throughout South Australia. They were the life saviour of the
South Australian Railways, because they had to serve two years in the railways, and
most of them went into the railways. They went in as guards or (pause) some blokes
worked on the line as navvies working their way up to gangers and all that sort of
business and, as I said, Ted Gilskofi[?], he was a porter, he finished up a guard, then
he came back to Adelaide and he operated as a guard on the line between here and
Peterborough and around places like that. But he was only one of many. A lot of
them finished up engine drivers, like Wally. He was only one of many Polish
migrants who were engine drivers. Yes, only for the Poles or the migrants came out,
the railways would have been shot, absolutely shot. So that’s one good thing they
did. And then of course when they’d served their two years a lot of them stayed on.
Yes, a lot of them got married at Peterborough, didn’t they?
32
TOM:
That’s right, yes.
MARGARET:
Yes.
And did, like Naish, when he took over the pub, didn’t he, with his mum –
TOM:
That’s right.
– they used to go to the pubs too, the migrants?
TOM:
Oh, yes.
Just mix in socially?
TOM:
Yes, that’s right, yes.
Then the soccer club was a big thing.
TOM:
No, no, it wasn’t.
Wasn’t a big thing?
TOM:
No, no. Matter of fact, there was never a soccer club in Peterborough, not
to my knowledge.
Hans Schultz, he was across in ....., he’s got photos of the soccer. They played
against Port Pirie, Orroroo –
TOM:
Yes, but what years were they?
’Fifty-two, ’53.
TOM:
Is that right? Oh dear, I didn’t think they were that ..... Well, of course, I
was still in the Army then.
Oh, ’50s, no.
MARGARET:
TOM:
Not ’50s, no.
Oh, ’40s, I beg your pardon.
MARGARET:
We were out on the property –
That’s right, you wouldn’t have – – –.
MARGARET:
– and we only came in on Thursdays, which was market day. So
any other – and come in on Sunday to Mass – but any other time we didn’t, we were
too busy, we didn’t mix with the people, we were too far away.
33
TOM:
Yes, I didn’t even know they had a soccer club in Peterborough.
But you were telling me you played baseball a lot.
TOM:
Yes, we played baseball just after I – I think the last year I was at school
and then after I left school I went out on the property, we – – –. Yes, we had four
teams in Peterborough and on one trip, 1936 I think it was, we went up to Port
Augusta and we played a game with Port Augusta and then we went across to
Whyalla. And Whyalla wasn’t even a town then, it was only tin sheds. As a matter
of fact, the workmen lived in tents and they had a galvanised iron shed for their
meals. And that was Whyalla. And we played baseball there, then we came back to
Peterborough. We went up in the utility, and six of us were in the back of the
utility, (laughs) all cramped. When we got to Port Augusta we were covered in dirt
and dust, you know – oh gosh, we were in a mess! But we enjoyed it, we thought
‘This is great.’ So not many people can say that they were at Whyalla before it was
a town.
Why do you think baseball was such a popular sport in Peterborough?
TOM:
Well, as I said, my brother learnt his baseball when he went to Sacred
Heart College, and when he came back to Peterborough he organised a Northern
District Baseball Carnival, and he got Broken Hill to bring down a couple of teams
to Peterborough Centre, and we had a team from Port Augusta and then a team from
Peterborough, and I’m not too sure whether we got one from Whyalla or not, can’t
remember, probably did. And then we got all the officials came up from Adelaide,
like Charlie Puckett[?] and a few of the other top boys, and they ran this carnival in
Peterborough, which was a huge success. The only trouble is war broke out and the
whole thing finished. Didn’t continue. And after the War, well, it never got off the
ground again, you see. There’s only a couple of places now that play baseball in the
country: Pirie play baseball; it’s a big thing in Mount Gambier, baseball, big thing.
And even in Adelaide now they’re negotiating with the state government to make
their headquarters out at Gepps Cross, the baseball headquarters. At the moment
they’re at Thebarton Oval, but that place is in a real mess, nothing’s been done the
last fifteen years and everything’s in a real mess – the roads are potholey and the
oval’s not in good shape and the light towers are all rusted and, yes, it’s not a very
good venue at all. And the baseball people, even though they’ve got a lease on it,
34
they’d never be in a position financially to overcome the problems. And the only
money that they’re likely to get from the state government is if they go out to Gepps
Cross, so that’s where I’m sure they’ll go. And, as I said earlier, I relinquished my
patronage of the South Australian Baseball League this week, I told them that I was
getting to the stage where my health wasn’t up to it and I couldn’t put the time into
it like I’d like to. So I asked them would they get another patron. So that’s where it
is at the moment.
MARGARET:
Speaking of sport, I played basketball – it’s called ‘netball’ now –
and I played basketball a lot, right through, even through my service days. And I sat
for my umpire’s licence when I was sixteen, and I got that. And all those years I
played.
Did you play in Peterborough?
MARGARET:
I started to, I started to play, and then first twelve months I had
John, I had to give it away after a couple of months. So that was the end of my
basketball days.
Just talking about John, when we were talking earlier about the Mothers’ and
Babies’ health train – – –.
MARGARET:
Yes, oh yes.
Did you ever have anything to do with that?
MARGARET:
Only visiting, only taking John in. You took your babies in to
have them weighed and the sister that ran it – they did have a couple, but there was
one particularly – she was, I think she was a bit of a, probably middle-aged, little bit,
she’d be picky, and nothing wrong with John but she’d say, ‘Oh, I think you have
your baby lying on one side too much,’ she said, ‘he’s getting a bit of a flat head on
one side.’ I said, ‘Oh, really?’ And of course, being only twenty-three, I said, ‘Gee,
I must look into this, must turn him over every hour or so,’ because I believed her.
Well, they were qualified people and I was a new mum, and I thought, ‘Well, maybe
she is right.’ Not that I noticed it, but she was – and I did hear from a couple of
other mothers, you know, ‘She’s very picky, that lady, very, very picky.’ And all
you did was to have your baby weighed to see if they’re growing, and if you had to
do any extras, give them any extra.
35
So John hasn’t got a flat head? I’ve never noticed it.
MARGARET:
(laughs) No, no.
You must have did the right thing.
MARGARET:
But no, it was just one of those things that grabbed me, you know.
I remember it very vividly.
We can’t go too much further without mentioning your involvement in politics –
can you tell me how that came about, and what year it was?
TOM:
The year was 1960 and Mick O’Halloran, who was the member for
Frome, he died, and the [Australian] Labor Party had to find a replacement for him.
And they only had one object in mind, that was to get somebody off the land
because Mick O’Halloran was a bloke off the land, he had property at Belton. And
they knew that most of the areas outside of Peterborough and Quorn were all rural
areas, therefore they had to get somebody that was off the land. And anyway, they
looked around, and the driver of – Frank Walsh7 was coming back from the NorthEast on one occasion and he went past the ranch, and his driver, a fellow called
Cornish, Buck Cornish, said to Frank Walsh, he said, ‘There’s the bloke you want,
he lives in there.’ So they turned the car around and they came in. And Frank
Walsh had a talk with me and told me what it was all about and so forth, and I said,
‘Well, look, Mr Walsh,’ I said, ‘you know, I’ve got a family of six children,’ I said,
‘I’ve got a property to look after,’ I said, ‘I don’t know whether I can find time to do
what you want me to do.’ And he said, ‘Well, give it some thought,’ he said, ‘and
we’ll come back and interview you again.’ I said, ‘All right.’ So the next time he
came up he brought with him the Secretary of the party – forget his name8 – and
anyway, and then all of a sudden who should turn up but Gough Whitlam. So they
had a talk with me in the lounge and so forth, and I said, ‘Well, look, I’ll have to
talk it over with my wife to see whether I’m available or not.’ And then I finished
up, I met Geoff Virgo, and he was the next bloke in line for the Secretary job. And
Geoff had a talk to me and he said, ‘You can do it, Tom,’ he said. ‘You know, you
can do this, you can do that.’ And I said, ‘All right, I’ll give it a go.’ Just like that.
7
position?
36
And then of course we went on the trailblazing then, and we went right up through
to Marree, and I was with Don Dunstan, and everybody loved Don Dunstan – he
was a real drawcard, right up through that Far North country, and also up in the
North-East here.
Why do you think that was?
TOM:
Well, he was outspoken and he was very critical of Tom Playford, and he
was getting away with stuff and showing Playford up really what he was.
What was he, what was Playford?
TOM:
He was an old [batherscot?]. And I’ll tell you how it came about later on.
But anyway, we set off on the trail of electioneering.
And we had some big
meetings, had a meeting at Terowie, which was well-attended – of course I got the
vote out at Terowie, which is a most Labor town, because in those days the change
of gauge was still there. And then the North-East country, well, that was fifty-fifty,
because old Tom Playford, he closed Radium Hill so I wouldn’t get the vote out at
Radium Hill. And Quorn was fifty-fifty because the railways had gone from Quorn
down to Port Augusta. Marree wasn’t too bad, I got in touch with the chappie who
was in charge of the transhipping and railways up there.
Who was that? Was it Dave Miller?
TOM:
No, he was a mixture of races.
I think he was part-Egyptian, part-
Aborigine. I just can’t think of his name. But he was a very, very well-versed bloke
and knew his job. I got him on side. And then we had to get the vote out at
Peterborough, because the bloke who was standing against me stood against Mick
O’Halloran and he nearly beat Mick O’Halloran.
Who was that?
TOM:
Max Hams[?], fellow called Max Hams. And Max thought he had the
game sewn up here, in Adelaide, which he pretty near did, too. Because he was
doing everything right. Well, they had a big meeting in Peterborough Town Hall,
and Tom Playford got up and spoke and he said that ‘Next week there’ll be 180’, I
8
name?
37
think it was, ‘180 men that’ll come up and start working on the rail standardisation
between Peterborough and Broken Hill.’ And that was a deliberate lie, a deliberate
lie, because within two days we got the Leader of the Opposition from Canberra,
and he disputed this absolutely and called Playford everything, you know, what he
should have been called, because what he’d told the people was a deliberate lie.
And that turned a lot of people away from the Liberal Party straight away. And that
was one of the big things that saved us as far as the voting was concerned. Well,
then, when the voting counting was completed, we’d won by something like nine or
ten votes, eleven votes, I think it was, we won by eleven votes, and they were going
to challenge it, the Liberals. And we found out that there was some skulduggery up
at the Peterborough Hospital, where the Secretary had rubbed out voting which was
done in pencil and – rubbed that out and voted in biro. Because I had an uncle and
auntie in the hospital and they voted for me, and according to the count up there
they voted Liberal. Well, you know, when this was going to be brought out it was
sort of done under the lap, when the Libs got to hear of it they backed off straight
away. So we won by eleven votes.
That’s pretty close, isn’t it?
TOM:
It was very close, yes. Well, of course, we’d had to do everything the
hard way, we came from behind. Still, that’s the way it went.
I’m just curious as to why a bloke off the land – I would associate you with the
Liberal Party, I don’t know why. Why did you go with the Labor Party?
TOM:
Well, a lot of blokes on the land vote Labor.
It just seems to be this stereotype: farmers, Liberal.
TOM:
Well, it’s a bit of a stigma really, I think.
I met a bloke, I was
campaigning for the Labor Party down at Mount Gambier on one occasion, and I
went into this house. He had a Mercedes car, he had a big boat, I knocked on the
door, this fellow came out and I said, ‘Look, my name’s Tom Casey,’ I said. ‘I’m
representing the Labor Party.’ He said, ‘Come in and have a cup of tea, Tom.’ I
went in there, he was a Labor supporter. And the only reason why he supported
Labor was because on account of the Australian Wheat Board. When the Labor
Party brought in the wheat stabilisation plan. He said, ‘That saved a lot of cockies
38
and,’ he said, ‘I switched from Liberal to Labor.’ He said, ‘I’m a good Labor man
now.’ And he was a big, wealthy man in Mount Gambier.
What was the feeling up around Peterborough, you with the Labor Party?
TOM:
Oh, well, as I say, it was fifty-fifty in Peterborough on account of Max
Hams. He was working a lot of the Labor blokes over to his side. He was telling a
lot of jobs[?]. Like he was sowing grass on the oval to turn the oval into a grassed
oval, and he used to come to Catholic church Mass during Sunday Mass and he’d
talk to the people after Mass, you know.
END OF TAPE 1 SIDE B: TAPE 2 SIDE A
Tom, this was Max Hams, who was the Mayor?
TOM:
Yes.
And he was also – – –.
TOM:
Chairman of the District Council.
So he wore two hats.
TOM:
You can say he was just the Mayor of Peterborough.
Local government hasn’t changed a lot, has it?
TOM:
No.
So how did you get on with your neighbours being a Labor politician? Did they
accept that?
TOM:
I don’t think Eric Samwell[?] agreed with it, he wasn’t too happy about it
when I – – –. But they accepted it in the finish.
Just looking back over your political career, did that take you away from the farm
a lot?
TOM:
Yes, a fair bit, fair bit. Particularly when the House was in session,
because I used to have to go down on the train if I had a meeting in the morning so
I’d have to catch the Broken Hill express early in the morning, four o’clock at
Peterborough, then come down to town. Otherwise I’d get the midday train which
left Peterborough about half past one or something like that. I can remember at one
time I had the keys of the car in my pocket and I got to Terowie and I found out
39
Margaret was – I just grabbed the engine driver, train going back to Peterborough, to
take my keys back! (laughs)
MARGARET:
TOM:
He left me stranded.
Funny, isn’t it, how these things can happen. Yes, but then I used to drive
down to town –
MARGARET:
TOM:
Mondays, then.
– Mondays, midday I used to catch the train, then I’d catch the Broken
Hill express back on Thursday night, so I’d have Friday, Saturday and Sunday at
home.
MARGARET:
TOM:
Lots of times it was Friday night, too.
Anyway, that was when the House was in session. And of course when
the House wasn’t in session I had all the time in the world at home. Then I used to
go electioneering. I can remember I got the AC 9 power into Cockburn, because they
were on DC power at Cockburn. Anybody got transferred from Peterborough to
Cockburn they had to change all their electrical goods. So I said to Tom Playford, I
said, ‘Look, the Commonwealth Government are putting in repeater stations along
the road from Peterborough through to Broken Hill.’ And I said, ‘There’s one in the
Thackaringa Ranges which is going up, which is going to be serviced from the
power station in Broken Hill.’ And he said, ‘What power station is that?’ I said,
‘Well,’ I said, ‘there are two power stations in Broken Hill.’ He said, ‘Are there?’
and I said, ‘Yeah.’ I said, ‘One is the power station which supplies power to mines,
and,’ I said, ‘then there’s the corporation power station.’ And he said, ‘Oh,’ he said,
‘I didn’t know that.’ I said, ‘Oh, well, that’s the way it is.’ Anyway, and I said,
‘One of them is supplying power,’ I said, ‘I think it’d be the corporation supplying
power to the Thackaringa Ranges.’ And I said, ‘That’s more than halfway to
Cockburn.’ I said, ‘What about completing the line, which is a 2-phase line, into
Cockburn so that these people can have AC power?’ ‘Yeah,’ he said, ‘yeah, that’s –
I’ll have a look at that.’ And old Tom Playford did it. We got AC power into
9
AC = alternating current; DC = direct current [electricity].
40
Cockburn.
Which meant that all the people didn’t have to change over their
washing machines, their refrigerators and all this sort of business.
You’re the first one that’s ever mentioned that. I’d never realised that.
TOM:
Yes.
Well, that’s what happened, yes, from DC to AC power in
Cockburn. Well, you do a lot of these things, and if you haven’t got a political
reporter with you then none of this gets reported. See, it’s like this fixing up the
South Australian dog racing headquarters out here at Angle Park. See, I did all that
and it was never ever mentioned that I was responsible for doing all that sort of
business. It’s like there was a girl on TV the other night, she’s the winemaker at
Chapel Hill wines, her name is Pam Dunsford. Now, the Principal at Roseworthy
College, a fellow called Bob Herriot, came to me and he said, ‘There’s a girl wants
to do an oenology course at Roseworthy.’ He said, ‘Are you inclined to agree with
it?’
He said, ‘Would you give your sanctions to this girl being admitted to
Roseworthy College to do an oenology course?’ I said, ‘Yes, of course I am.’ And
we went ahead and did it. Now, when you hear Pam Dunsford give her rendition
she never made any mention that the Minister gave her permission to do that. You
can’t get in there unless you get permission from the Minister. I can remember
another case – – –.
So would you say it’s a pretty thankless job?
TOM:
Yes.
Well, you see, if you’ve got a good PR bloke he’d give you
credence for that in the press, but I didn’t have anybody like that. And then it was
like Bob Herriot came to me on another occasion, he said, ‘Look, two blokes have
just run amok down here.’ He said, ‘They went into Gawler and they got drunk and
they came back and they tore the flywire doors off their hinges, they smashed
windows.’ He said, ‘They vomited all over the place.’ He said, ‘I suspended them.’
I said, ‘Good on you, Bob,’ I said, ‘I agree with that.’ He said, ‘You do?’ I said,
‘Yeah, I’ll back you all the way.’ Well, the next day my secretary came in, Bob
Walker[?], he said, ‘Hey, there’s a bloke on the ’phone, Clark. He wants to talk to
you.’ And I said, ‘What does he want to talk to me about?’ He said, ‘Oh, one of
those boys out at Roseworthy College is his son and he wants him reinstated.’ And
I said, ‘Well, you tell Mr Clark that he’s got no hope in hell of getting his son
reinstated.’ I said, ‘What he did out at that college,’ I said, ‘was nobody’s business.
41
He doesn’t deserve to be there.’ Well, he was going to take me to court and
everything. He kept ringing up Bob Walker about every second day and said, ‘I’m
going to take the Minister to court.’ Bob would come in and he’d say, ‘He’s saying
he’s going to take you to court.’ I said, ‘You tell him, take me to court, that’s all
right.’ He never went to court. So about four weeks later I got another ’phone call.
It was a bloke I used to go to school with at Rostrevor. And he said, ‘Tom,’ he said,
‘I’ve got a problem.’ And I said, ‘What’s your problem?’ He said, ‘One of the two
boys that was suspended at Roseworthy,’ he said, ‘one’s my son.’ And he said,
‘What’s the possibility of getting him reinstated?’ I said, ‘You’ve got Buckley’s.’ I
said, ‘Now, if your son, or if we’d done what your boys did out at Roseworthy,’ I
said, ‘if we’d done that at Rostrevor,’ I said, ‘Brother Mackie, what do you think he
would have done?’ He said, ‘Thanks, Tom, that’s all.’ Never heard anything more
about it. Finished. So they were two sort of things that stick in your mind about,
you know, some people who don’t do the right thing and when they’re caught out
they can’t handle it, they want you to do the right thing.
Regarding Peterborough, did you have much input into the Peterborough area as
a politician?
TOM:
Into the Peterborough area?
Particularly with the railways, roadworks?
TOM:
I don’t think so, not to my knowledge.
MARGARET:
TOM:
There wasn’t anything – – –.
There was nothing you could do because it was all Railways. I did get
that what’s-the-name built up at Peterborough, that recreation centre.
The Max Hams Recreational Centre?
TOM:
Yes, well, they wanted to put Max Hams’ name on it. I said, ‘Well, that’s
all right with me.’ But I did it through my department, the Department of Sport.
So you were the Minister for Sport –
TOM:
Yes.
– and Recreation?
42
TOM:
Yes, at that time. Prior to that I was Minister for Agriculture and Minister
for Forests. I was that for five years and then they transferred me to the Minister of
Lands, Minister of Irrigation, Minister of Repatriation, Minister of Tourism,
Recreation and Sport, which was a hell of a big portfolio. Anyway, they said – you
know, Max was the Mayor of the town, you see, and I said, ‘Oh well, that’s all right,
if he wants his name on there then I don’t mind, that’s neither here nor there as far
as I’m concerned.’ But he didn’t have anything to do with it. I think that was –
(pause) who was the Mayor at the time?
Bruce Lock[?]?
TOM:
No, before him. Dave Dowd.
MARGARET:
TOM:
Dave Dowd.
Yes, Dave Dowd was the Mayor at the time when I built the show up
there, and in recognition of Max being a previous Mayor he said, ‘We’ll call it the
Max Hams.’ I said, ‘That’s all right, I couldn’t care less.’ It was like the Heysen
Trail. The Heysen Trail used to come under my jurisdiction as Minister for Sport,
and I had a bloke that was working on it in my department and he came to me on
one occasion, he said, ‘Mr Casey, we’d like to continue the Trail from point A to
point B.’ I said, ‘That’s okay. What’s it going to cost?’ and so forth. ‘Have we got
the money to do it?’ ‘Yes.’ ‘Right,’ I said, ‘well, go ahead and do it.’ And then it
came up that the opening came about and they said, ‘Well, Minister, we’d like you
to open it,’ and I said, ‘No, I don’t want to open it.’ I said, ‘Let’ – what’s his name?
Oh, he was mixed up in the trails at the time – I said, ‘Let him open it.’ Well, he
took full credence of the whole thing, he got all the publicity, I got nothing. But
anyway, that was all right, that was fine.
MARGARET:
TOM:
We had a –
I wasn’t looking for credence at that stage, I was just looking to do a job
that wanted to be done and had to be done, and for the benefit of people. And it was
like Carrieton School came to me on one occasion and they said, ‘Mr Casey, we’re a
bit pushed for room up here at Carrieton,’ he said. ‘There’s so many school teachers
and,’ he said, ‘the head, and I’ve got a lady teacher.’ And he said, ‘We’re teaching
about seven classes.’ I said, ‘Oh, that’s no good.’ He said, ‘We’re doing it in two
43
rooms.’ He said, ‘We could do with another classroom.’ I said, ‘Good.’ And I
came to town and I said to Tom Playford – and of course he knew that Carrieton
was a good Liberal area, you see – I said to Tom, I said, ‘Tom, I’ve had a request
from the Carrieton School Council to approach you to give them another classroom
at Carrieton.’ I said, ‘The school is over-crowded and,’ I said, ‘the headmaster’s in’,
you know, ‘real trouble.’ ‘Ooh,’ he said, ‘is that a fact?’ I said, ‘Yeah.’ He said,
‘Right, I’ll fix it, Tom.’ He fixed it. Got a new classroom up there. Baden
Paterson[?], the Minister for Education, he came to me about a week later and he
said, ‘Tom,’ he said, ‘why didn’t you come to me for the school at Carrieton?’ And
I said, ‘Well, Sir Baden,’ I said, ‘what happened was that the School Council
approached me and asked me would I approach the Premier so,’ I said, ‘that’s what I
did. And,’ I said, ‘I’ve notified the Council that I did what they requested me to do,’
which was a lie on my part but Baden Paterson, he probably would have asked
permission from Playford to get a school up there anyway, so I was only cutting
corners.
So despite being opposing Playford you got on all right with the man?
TOM:
I got on very well with Tom Playford, yes. I did.
MARGARET:
TOM:
Both names are Tom. (laughs)
I think I was the only one that ever got a half a case of cherries out of him.
He was famous for that, wasn’t he?
TOM:
Yes, he had a very good cherry orchard. I kept saying to him when I was
Minister for Agriculture, I said, ‘Hey, Tom,’ I said, you know, ‘and all the good
things I’ve done about you,’ I said, ‘I’ve given you permission to shoot some parrots
and stuff,’ I said, ‘What have you done for me?’ I said, ‘I’ll take half a case of
cherries.’ He said, ‘Righto.’ Sure enough, his driver gave me half a case of cherries
the next day. (laughs)
MARGARET:
We did a lot of social functions receiving debutantes. When Tom
used to come home for the weekends, it was always a Saturday night, debutante
balls.
TOM:
Hawker.
44
MARGARET:
We’d travel many, many miles to receive deb[utantes] and return
home two and three o’clock in the morning.
Did you find that draining?
TOM:
No, not really.
MARGARET:
TOM:
Not really.
We were young, we handled it, no problems. We used to go to Leigh
Creek, St Patrick’s night ball was the big dance show up there. That was run by –
what’s his name? – Len O’Toole’s brother, he was in the Post Office, the Postmaster
up there. O’Toole.
MARGARET:
But there were – – –.
Not one of the Peterborough O’Tooles?
TOM:
Yes, brother.
Oh, right.
TOM:
Brother to Len O’Toole.
MARGARET:
But we went to Hawker, went to all the country places. And we’d
come home the same night, we’d get in one, two, three o’clock in the morning and
have to get up and start just the same the next day.
This was a lot of dirt roads, was it?
TOM:
Yes, all dirt roads.
What sort of car did you have?
TOM:
I had a big Pontiac. It was a beautiful car, and it done about 220,000 I
think when it started to miss a bit. I decided to get rid of it. But it was a wonderful
car, really good car. Oh, I wore out a lot of cars. I used to do two trips to Birdsville
every year in my utility. John used to come with me, we used to take two long
planks about an inch thick, eight inches wide, we get bogged we’d just jack the back
wheels up, put them in and back out. Some people used to go up there with nothing,
they used to try and dig themselves out. They got into real trouble.
Was that all on parliamentary duty?
45
TOM:
Yes. I used to call into the stations on the way, the Oldfields. We used to
stay one night at Dick Oldfield’s at Cowarie, which was just off the track from
Mungerannie Station. In those days young Eric Oldfield had Mungerannie, but the
dogs cleaned him out, just about, in the finish. Eric finished up, he was a fencer, a
fencing operator, I think he used to operate out of Marree. Then he arranged that
big drive for Birdsville. Good stockman, Eric. And I see where they’ve got a motel,
hotel at Mungerannie. God!
The bush has changed a lot.
TOM:
Yes, absolutely.
So looking back over your political career, what would you say was your most
proud achievement?
TOM:
I would say the introduction of TAB 10 into South Australia, when I went
to all that time and energy and –
MARGARET:
TOM:
Travelling.
– travelling at my own expense. And to get it through Parliament with
three votes, old Tom Playford called me ‘the High Priest of Gambling’, and I don’t
gamble. And Lloydie[?] Hughes, he was the Member for Wallaroo, he was a reader
in the Methodist Church, and he got up to make this powerful speech against TAB,
introduction of TAB gambling and so forth, and he referred to me as the ‘Member
for Rome’. (laughter) Instead of ‘Frome’ it was ‘Rome’. Poor old Lloydie, he
brought the house down, he was getting mixed up. He got onto the religious ....., do
you see, and he got caught out, instead of ‘Frome’ it was ‘Rome’.
The Rome and the gambling, it all goes together. Hotels, racehorses.
TOM:
Well, you’d be surprised the number of people that I spoke to interstate. I
can remember there was one little bloke, he was the Presbyterian minister in New
South Wales, and he was in a little den, office, it wouldn’t have been any bigger
than half of this room, quarter of this room just about. And I said to him, ‘Well,
now, everything that I’m asking you,’ I said, ‘is not for publication,’ I said, ‘it’s just
between you and me.’ And I said, ‘Do you think that the TAB in New South Wales
46
has stopped a lot of the illegal gambling?’ He said, ‘Oh yes, it has.’ And he said –
‘In point of fact,’ I said, ‘you are in favour of it?’ And he said, ‘Under those
conditions, yes.’ So, you know, that was the sort of reaction I got from these people
that would, outwardly they’d condemn it straight away, you know, saying, ‘This is
gambling, no good.’ But when you got down to tin tacks and said to them, you
know, ‘Has this reduced the illegal side of the gambling?’ they had to say yes,
because it was, and has proved itself in Victoria. When I interviewed these blokes
with the TAB agencies, these Italian blokes, and I said, ‘You know, you making
more money now?’ ‘No,’ he said, ‘not more money.’ And I said, ‘Well, are you
happy?’ He said, ‘Yeah, very happy,’ he said, ‘this is legit.’ (laughter) He said, ‘I
can take money, don’t have to worry about the police, nothing.’
So illegal gambling was rife before the TAB?
TOM:
Oh, absolutely. Every hotel had an SP11 bookmaker, every hotel, right
throughout the state. Yes. Peterborough, you had four pubs there, they all had SP
bookmakers.
Was that just to look over – – –?
TOM:
Oh well, they used to bring up the Vice Squad from Pirie every now and
again and make raids in Jamestown, Orroroo, Peterborough, all around the place to
try and catch these blokes.
So you reckon the TAB would be one of the – – –?
TOM:
Well, that cut out the illegal gambling, yes.
Was that ’67, somewhere round then?
TOM:
No, about ’65.
Was that when the Lotteries Commission – – –?
TOM:
No, no, that was later. Yes, the Lotteries came later. The Lotteries didn’t
come in until the – oh, dear – oh, round about – yes, the Lotteries came in round
about the late ’70s, I think, or mid-’70s.
10
TAB = Totalizator Agency Board.
11
SP = starting price.
47
MARGARET:
Around ’67.
Yes, it was something to do with the hospitals, wasn’t it, it was to raise money for
the hospitals.
TOM:
Well, it was supposed to be.
MARGARET:
And cut out, also was supposed to cut out this Friday badge day,
and it didn’t.
TOM:
No, never did.
MARGARET:
Remember how people used to sell badges for charity every
Friday? It was supposed to cut that out too.
TOM:
I know Jim Toohey, he was appointed the Chairman of the Lotteries
Commission here in South Australia, Senator Toohey, and he came to me and he
said, ‘Tom,’ he said, ‘we want to buy a property in Rundle Street.’ He said, ‘What
do you think about the idea?’ I said, ‘I think it’s a good idea, Jim. And,’ I said, ‘the
place I’d go for is the old picture theatre.’ I think it was called the ‘York’ or
something, and that’s where the Lotteries started off. And I see now where they’re
going to close it down, they’re going to go somewhere else. I don’t know where
they’re going now.
MARGARET:
TOM:
I reckon they might come down on Greenhill Road.
MARGARET:
TOM:
Yes, I was just going to say that, on Greenhill Road.
You know, where the –
MARGARET:
TOM:
Coming out of town.
ETSA.
– no, not ETSA. Where Medibank Private used to be, that building is not
occupied, I don’t think so. Could be the bottom of ETSA, I don’t know, but anyway
they’re talking about somewhere on Greenhill Road.
So how long did you stay in politics for?
TOM:
Twenty years. Nineteen sixty to 1979, late December ’79.
And you lived in Peterborough all that time?
48
TOM:
No. We lived the first ten years in Peterborough, and then when I became
a minister I represented the Southern Districts and we moved down to Grange, and
we were there until –
MARGARET:
TOM:
’Eighty-three.
– I retired from politics, and then we moved up here to Pitcairn Avenue,
Urrbrae, and we were there until six months ago. And because our health has been
deteriorating we decided that the home in Pitcairn Avenue was too big, too big a
garden, too much to look after, so the daughters, they swung into action, said,
‘You’re going down here.’ And we had no option.
MARGARET:
Well, I had a slight stroke and that’s what made them move. So
when I came out of hospital they said, ‘We’ve been looking, we’ve found the place.’
And they did it all.
This place, who runs this place?
MARGARET:
The Southern Cross.
It’s a big area, isn’t it?
MARGARET:
Yes, it’s about twenty-two houses in this area.
Well, it’s very quiet.
MARGARET:
Yes, it is. We’ve got the park back there, they can’t build that
way, and, as I said to you, we’re the last house, ..... ....., right in the corner here. So
it is nice. I missed the – it took me a while to get used to the smaller home, because
we went from a big home at Peterborough down to here, even Grange was a big
home, and then up here to the – I don’t know why we went for the big home up
here. But still, the children would come down, the kids were down, there was
always somebody calling in, and I felt more comfortable with more room. And
Tom, he didn’t want to leave over there, but when I had that slight stroke the girls
said, ‘Mum can’t be doing any more.’ And I kept saying, ‘Tom, I’m only two years
behind you.’ You know, he got the impression probably, or expect me to just carry
on the way I’ve been carrying on. But it just got too much for me.
TOM:
Another thing that I accomplished when I was Minister for Sport, I
introduced into South Australia for the first time a system whereby (pause) people
49
could become accredited to coach teams of different phases of athletics, whether it
be in swimming or whether it be in running in athletics or whether it be some other
type of sport, and these courses they had to do examinations at the end of the term,
and if they passed they’d be accredited as a full-time coach. Now, I got that idea
from London when I was there, because I said to the powers that be in Great Britain,
I said, ‘How do you get on teaching all these kids different .....?’ And they said,
‘We have an accredit[ation] system whereby the coaches have to go before a panel
and they’re examined and so forth, and if they pass they’re accredited as top
coaches.’ And I did that when I came back to South Australia. And that was the
first time that was operated in Australia as far as I can remember, which was very
good. It went through in flying colours. So these are the sort of things that you
don’t always get a lot of publicity with, but we used to have some good evenings
when I’d go along and hand out these certificates to these people that were passed in
the examinations – plus men and women too, not just one gender. Didn’t make any
difference as long as they fulfilled their obligations and went through the necessary
procedure and passed their examinations, then they were accredited, yes.
You were saying before how your interest in politics was driven a bit by Mick
O’Halloran, what can you tell me about Mick? I don’t know much about him.
TOM:
Well, I didn’t have that much to do with him, either, because he was a lot
older than I was, he was an elderly man when I was only a young bloke. But I
found out that Mick was a pretty cluey old bloke and, from what I can gather since
my term in politics, was that there was a lot of skulduggery used to go on within the
Labor Party and some of the blokes used to try and get stuff out of Mick to use
against Playford, because Mick and Playford were very close and they used to sort
of weigh things up and if Mick O’Halloran thought that it was a good idea he’d
support Playford. But of course a lot of the Labor blokes didn’t want to do that and
they tried to undermine Mick on many occasions. They’d probably give him a
couple of extra scotches which he shouldn’t have had. But you only find out these
things when you get into politics. But you can never trust some of these blokes,
they can switch – they can turn off one minute and turn back another. For example,
we had a hell of a job getting Don Dunstan elected as Premier because there was a
lot of hatred against him, mainly because he was so brilliant and he wasn’t a trade
50
unionist, and unless you were a trade unionist you weren’t accepted in the Labor
Party and I found that out very quickly. Very, very quickly. Yes, it’s incredible.
And that’s one of the problems that the Labor Party’s got. I can remember when I
first got into politics, I used to talk to a lot of the – didn’t matter who was in the bar,
if I went into the bar to have a drink – and I never drank very much, I used to drink a
soft drink mainly – if there was a Liberal member in there I’d say ‘g’day’ to him. I
got chatted on one occasion, said, ‘What do you want to talk to him for? He’s a
Liberal.’ And I said, ‘Well, I don’t even ask him what he is,’ I said, ‘he’s just a
human being as far as I’m concerned and if I say “g’day” to him and he says
“g’day” to me,’ I said, ‘that’s as far as I’m concerned.’ But, you know, these
people, they’re funny.
Narrow-minded.
TOM:
Oh, gosh, terrible. I know Howard Venning, when he was the Member
for Rocky River – – –.
END OF TAPE 2 SIDE A: TAPE 2 SIDE B
TOM:
We used to do a lot of pyramid work at a big galvanised iron shed where
Jim Davis’s house is now, and there was a chap in the Railways called ‘Bruiser’
Reynolds – I can’t remember his Christian name, but that was his nickname,
Bruiser, Bruiser Reynolds – and he formed this mouth organ band. And a lot of
people learned at that band how to play a mouth organ, which was something unique
at the time but it was a good pastime for people in that era. And it went on for many
years. And then, when some of the old people bowed out, the mouth organ band
folded and that was the finish of that, but it was quite a novelty back in the ’20s.
And where did they use to hold their performances?
TOM:
Oh, in the shed, which was quite a big shed. And they’d have probably
one night a week when they’d all get together and have a bit of a practice, and then
perhaps they might perform up in the hospital, go out there and have a few tunes
with the patients in the hospital or something like that. Yes, it was quite something
unique. But I don’t think any of them were Laurie Adler class, but they apparently
got a lot of kick out of it.
You were saying that that’s before they had the YMCA gymnasium.
51
TOM:
Yes, that’s right. And then when the YMCA got built, then they built the
shed alongside of it, and it’s the recreational centre and that’s where we used to go
as small boys to do our gymnastics.
What sort of gymnastics did you do – – –?
TOM:
We used to do mostly pommel horse, and then a lot of running around,
tunnel ball and all that sort of business. But we didn’t do much on the horizontal or
parallel bars. I didn’t become acquainted with those until I came down to Rostrevor.
Do you remember who the instructor was?
TOM:
George Brady, that was his name, George Brady, his name just came to
me there. Yes, he was from England and he was, as I said, he was the instructor
from the YMCA. And he organised all the basketball matches. They had four
teams in Peterborough, they had the Australs, the Railways, the Town and the
Allblacks, I can remember as a boy. And oh, they were good, they were good
matches, very good matches. They’d play alternate teams about every – I think it
was every Wednesday night they used to play.
And George Brady, was he the one who used to have the boxing – – –?
TOM:
Yes. He was a very good boxer. When the Peterborough Shows were on
and George Sharman would bring up his boxing troupe, George Brady would
always come to the fore and he’d clean them up. Oh, he was very – yes, he was a
real pug, George, and a very nice chap, too, very nice fellow.
So who are some of the boys that you remember from those days, are any of them
still around?
TOM:
No, I can’t remember a lot of them. A lot of them – you’ve caught me on
the hop now.
Well, there’s not many actual locals left, is there, as such?
TOM:
No.
What would you say if I was to tell you that they’re going to pull the old
gymnasium down?
TOM:
Oh, terrible. I think that’d be one of the worst things in the world they
could do. It’s memorabilia, as far as Peterborough is concerned. It has a lot of
52
history and it could be utilised as a museum piece or even, if they don’t want to do
that, they could use it as a place where people go and perhaps play badminton or
something like that if they can’t use the other place down below, the recreational
centre.
But I almost think that it’s unique in South Australia to have a gymnasium
constructed by the YMCA in a small town.
TOM:
Yes, I think it is too. I think it would be a shame. Oh, you can have a lot
of stuff, you can have a museum piece in there and something for the people. I
mean, they talk about tourism, well, you’ve got to have something to show them.
They’re not going to go and see a kiddies’ playground in the main street, that’s
crazy, but they will go to see a museum, see what’s in there, some old photographs,
something like that.
What are some of the other things that really stick in your mind about growing up
as a boy up there?
TOM:
We used to like going on the train to the Jamestown Show, and we used to
like catching the train to go out to Ucolta to the Railway Picnic, which was once a
year. Matter of fact, that Railway Picnic, they used to have special trains that used
to come down from Cockburn and bring the railway people all the way down from
Olary and Mannahill, Yunta, to the Railway Picnic Ground. And it was very, very
well-patronised for years, and they used to have a Sheffield 12 and a high jump and a
greasy pole and, oh, they had a few sideshows there.
And was it a big day for the men and the women?
TOM:
Oh, absolutely, they really enjoyed it, it was a good day out. And of
course in those days there were a lot of pine trees which was a lot of shelter, and a
lot of them were cut down later on. As a matter of fact, you couldn’t see the
homestead on Amelia Park from the Railway Picnic Ground when I was a boy, it
was just a mass of pine. But I think Glen Baum, the owner of the park at that time, I
think he cut a whole lot down for fence posts.
And how long since you’ve been back to Peterborough now, Tom?
12
??
53
TOM:
It’s about twelve months since I’ve been back.
And what did you think of the place the last time you were there?
TOM:
Oh, I thought it had gone downhill badly. I was surprised at the number
of shops that were empty. And there was no life in the place, it was dead. And with
the railways not operating, and now steam trains gone, I think it’ll be even worse.
So anything that they can keep in Peterborough as a memento, such as the shed
alongside the YMCA, should be maintained, absolutely maintained. It’d be a great
pity to do without it.
And any move to demolish it ought to be, you know,
vigorously defended. Absolutely.
Well, I’ll try and do that.
TOM:
Good man, good man.
So do you still look upon Peterborough as home?
MARGARET:
TOM:
Yes.
Up to a certain extent, up to a certain extent, yes. Because most of my
days were spent at Peterborough as a boy, right up until you might as well say
manhood, eighteen years of age, nineteen. And then after we were married we
raised our family up there. So it has a great affinity for us.
And you were telling me you’ve already booked in to the Terowie[?] Road
[cemetery?] (laughter) So you’ve got it all sorted.
TOM:
Yes, absolutely.
Nobody’s immortal.
TOM:
Absolutely.
And what about you, Margaret, how do you feel about Peterborough since you’ve
been back?
MARGARET:
I miss it, I miss it. Lots of happy days up there, family growing
up. I really do. I still class it as home. Because before I got married and went up
there to live I was away in the services so long that really it was home. You came
from the services to home. And I made some nice friends up there, I was in a lot
too, and I played the bowls. I made a lot of nice friends up there and I enjoyed it.
54
Do you remember when you went there as a bride, the shopkeepers that were in
the main street, do you remember many of them?
MARGARET:
To name them?
Yes.
MARGARET:
Not so much to name them. Kip Hall[?] and the Cravens and
Matthews, all those stores, shops, you used to go into just to shop. But you didn’t
get to know those kind of people because we were out of the town so therefore you
didn’t get a chance to mix with them socially or to take it any further. But you had
your CWA13 and your school, you know, your school – friends’ parents, and then
Tom got into politics, I was playing bowls then and just after that. The family were
growing up then, that’s when I was, you could just say ‘free’, you just felt that you
had that little bit of independence, and then I took up the bowls and I made such a
lot of nice friends there.
You were telling me last time I spoke to you on the ’phone about the school bus.
Can you just retell that story?
MARGARET:
Well, the school bus, the children used to walk down there, of
course. That was a godsend.
What happened before then?
MARGARET:
Oh, when the children – no, none of the children were at school
before that school bus came in. Our children missed going to – like today they’ve
got kindy14 and pre-school and all those kinds of things, well, they never had
anything like that.
When our children started off school instead of going to
kindergarten and having, say, twelve months at kindergarten, they went straight into
school which was, took up there – they called it ‘the babies’, and then grade one, so
you felt that they missed that first twelve months.
TOM:
We were lucky to get that school bus. Vic O’Halloran was the ringleader
of it. They weren’t going to let Catholics on the bus, because they went to a private
school. And if they hadn’t let the Catholics on the school bus then there wouldn’t
13
Country Women’s Association.
14
Kindergarten.
55
have been enough kids to run the bus. So it got to the stage where they had to either
let the Catholic kids on the bus or cancel the bus altogether. So, through the
auspices of Mick O’Halloran, we eventually got the bus and it didn’t matter what
nationality you were (laughs) or what religious group you belonged to, you were
allowed on the bus.
And Flavi was saying yesterday that Wally used to catch the bus out on a Monday.
TOM:
Yes, I wouldn’t doubt that. Yes, that’d be right.
MARGARET:
Us, yes.
Out to your place?
MARGARET:
TOM:
She’s had the Sunday off and then come back on it, yes.
That’d be right.
So where did the bus use to operate from?
TOM:
It used to operate from Oodla Wirra.
Is that after the school closed at Oodla Wirra?
TOM:
Yes, yes.
MARGARET:
That was the idea, picking the ones up from there to bring them in
to school.
TOM:
Yes, there was a couple of children on the way through from Oodla Wirra,
and then there was a couple of kiddies from Ucolta, and then our children, and that
was it. The Malachie boys, Peter and John, they used to go to school in a horse and
buggy, horse and jinker.
MARGARET:
TOM:
No, they used to use the horse and jinker.
MARGARET:
TOM:
Yes, but I’m talking about Peter and John Malachie.
Yes, that’s who I’m talking about.
MARGARET:
TOM:
But when I came up here they used to ride bikes, too.
Oh, I thought they used to ride their bikes.
No, no, they used to take a jinker.
56
They used to live at Tunnel[?] Hill, didn’t they, right up there.
TOM:
That’s right, that’s right.
And Leo? Leo was probably only a boy when you were there.
TOM:
Oh yes, he wasn’t even born when we were there.
So you saw a great many changes with the standardisation. Can you tell me, Tom,
about the time you went up the track on the ..... car? Who did you go with?
TOM:
I went with the Superintendent of the Railways at Peterborough, and I was
absolutely astounded at the state of the track, the narrow gauge. The railway lines
had so deepened into the sleepers that the outside of the sleepers were sticking up
like wings. And I said to the Superintendent, I said, ‘How the devil can the train run
on this track?’ I said, ‘It’s unbelievable.’ And I said, you know, ‘Can’t you do it
up?’ He said, ‘There’s no money to do it up,’ he said, ‘all the money’s going into
standardisation.’ So it wasn’t long after that that the standardisation started, and it
was the best thing that could have happened (laughs) because that three foot six line
was in a real mess! Oh dear, oh dear, how those trains stayed on the line I’ll never
know. But they did. And they had some really big engines, too, those Garretts.
They were big.
MARGARET:
It was a nice sound, to hear the whistle of the trains go past, and
I’m sure there were some drivers who said, ‘Oh, Casey’s over there, give him a
whistle.’ (laughs) And it was a nice sound, to hear the train go past.
Did you have much to do with the railways actually, as delivery of wool and
livestock?
TOM:
No, we used to send our wool down by road to Terowie. A fellow called
Jack Cockshell from Terowie used to cart our wool down to Terowie and we’d put it
on the rail at Terowie.
That would save costs in transhipping?
TOM:
Yes.
MARGARET:
TOM:
Double handling.
That’s right, yes. If we’d take it into Peterborough we’d have to load it
onto the flattops, onto whatever it was there, and then it would have to be
57
transhipped again at Terowie, so we used to send it straight to Terowie. And this
was one of the problems that the railways had in the transhipping of wool from the
North-East. The station owners used to like motor transport better because they’d
pick the wool up and deliver it straight to Port Adelaide. Whereas they’d put it on
the rail and they’d have to be loaded onto the train at Olary or Mannahill or Yunta,
wherever the case may be, and then it would have to be transhipped at Terowie
again. It was a real mess. I tried the Railways to compete against road transport by
bringing in their own road transport, but they wouldn’t do it, so they suffered as a
result, in my opinion.
They operated it for a short time, didn’t they, they used to go to Quorn to pick up
wool and bring it back to Peterborough.
TOM:
Yes, for a short time.
Yes. Out to Pitcairn.
TOM:
Oh, I think that was when the railway closed between Peterborough and
Quorn, there was no railway.
..... ..... ..... yes, possibly that’s why. Leo Malachie used to drive that truck.
TOM:
Oh, yes?
Well, I’d just like to thank you for your time.
TOM:
That’s all right, John.
Is there any other thing?
TOM:
It’s been a pleasure.
MARGARET:
No. There’ll probably be things we’ll think of after you’re gone
and thought, ‘Oh, that could have been of interest.’
TOM:
No, I think we’ve covered everything pretty well.
MARGARET:
Oh, yes.
You’ve covered a lot in a short time, and I’d just like to thank you for putting up
with me and feeding me and watering me –
TOM:
That’s all right, John.
MARGARET:
That’s all right.
58
– in a short time.
TOM:
If you want to know any more, give us a call and we’ll sort of fill you in
over the ’phone rather than make a special trip out.
How do you feel about this project in general? Do you think it’s a worthwhile
project? Have you enjoyed being –
TOM:
Yes.
– talking and – – –?
TOM:
That’s no problem, yes.
MARGARET:
TOM:
Oh, yes! I mean, my goodness yes.
It’s been very good.
MARGARET:
That is the only way you get the history. That’s the only way that
you’ll be able to pass that history down to future generations.
We were talking before – you don’t feel as if I’m a crow, picking at the bones?
(laughter)
TOM:
No! As a matter of fact, this is one of the problems with the Far North.
Just after I left school I got a job as an employee at the wool stores down at Port
Adelaide and I worked in the bulk wool classing department, and I got in tow with
the Chief Classer down there, a fellow called Hughie McIntyre. And he used to
class a lot of the big stations, the wool from the big stations. And we went up to
Eudnapina[?], two stations there, one the Eudnapina Station and then the one at
Hesso, and we shore about 50,000, at 25,000 sheep on both, and then we went up to
Lumpiyowie[?] and they brought in a lot of sheep from Cadella[?] Downs down at
Andamupi[?] because the dogs were coming in. And we shore 66,000 there. And
what’s his name, Dunn from Lyndhurst, he had the pub there.
Jack.
TOM:
No, not Jack.
Alan, his son Alan?
TOM:
No, Alan’s father.
Oh yes, he was the one between.
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TOM:
Alan’s father, he had the pub at Lyndhurst. Jack had the – with his
mother at Lyndhurst.
Copley.
TOM:
Copley.
Alice.
TOM:
And Mrs Pear.....[?].
MARGARET:
TOM:
Yes.
They were great supporters of mine, incidentally, out there. And I settled
an argument in the pub at Lyndhurst on one occasion. Dunn came out and he said to
me, ‘Tom,’ he said, ‘you were at Muppi[?] when they shore there and,’ he said, ‘I
carted the wool.’ And he said, ‘When was that?’ And I said, ‘That was in 1939.’
He said, ‘That’s what I told that bloke,’ he said, ‘he wouldn’t believe me.’ Sixty-six
thousand they shore there.
So what were you doing there?
TOM:
I was a rouseabout.
Oh right, yes. With Elders? No, just as a rouseabout.
TOM:
Just as a rouseabout, yes. But I went up there and Hughie McIntyre was
my friend, he was the classer, and then every now and again he’d say to me, ‘Come
up here, Tom,’ and he’d say, ‘Where does this go, where does this fleece go?’ And
I’d tell him, and if I made a mistake he’d say, ‘No, have another look at it.’ And he
taught me a lot about wool, a lot about wool, which has stood me in good stead in
later years.’
That’s when you got a job at the wool stores.
TOM:
No, that’s how I come to get this job at ..... ..... I got a job at the wool
stores through a fellow called Grundy[?], he was the travelling stock man. So he
was quite happy. It worked out all right in the finish, worked out very well.
Oh well, that’s good. We could probably talk for days, but we’ve probably
covered a lot of things.
TOM:
Yes. Anyway, thanks, John.
60
No worries.
TOM:
Thanks for your company.
Oh, it’s been good.
MARGARET:
That’ll be nice for the kids to look back on.
Yes.
MARGARET:
Talking about looking back on old roots or anything like that, I
had a family tree done on my father’s side, and I’ve never bothered to take it any
further, and Bernadette, a fortnight ago, Bernadette took me over to – where is the
place, Tom?
TOM:
Edenhope.
MARGARET:
Edenhope in Victoria. They came out in the early 1800s. And I
found out this month I had two second cousins, I’ve met them, and I’ve found out
the hotel where my grandfather had and he died there, and a whole lot of the history.
I’ve never been back there, and here I’ve waited till I’m nearly eighty and I’ve
found out now where my roots are. That’s what I said, it’s a shame that people wait
till they get so old.
Well, like you said before, you were too busy living your life then.
MARGARET:
Well, everybody has got the same problem, if you like to call it a
problem, but everybody’s the same.
There are some eccentric people who are obsessed.
MARGARET:
Yes, but I tell you what, it takes those, they are exceptional
because who would go to that much trouble to do it? But I found out where my
great-grandfather, huge big ....., died in the late 1880s. Oh, they come out here
about 1840s, just when they first came out from England. Just amazing.
I asked Tom what his proudest moment was. What was yours in your life, do you
think?
MARGARET:
My proudest moment. To think – no, when I look back at the
beginning of my married life and I had six children and they were something I was
very proud of. And to think they’re all with us today, even the ones overseas, and
also the grandchildren, and there has been no problems, no sickness, you know.
61
Some people have a little bit of unhappiness, something – no, that’s mine. Success
of marriage and the family.
Excellent. You’ve done well.
MARGARET:
TOM:
That’s good. (break in recording)
– – – Operate down the bottom there, then he’d put ..... in that. And I
went up there when Donald Campbell had the Bluebird, and the Bluebird was in the
woolshed. And I went up there and I said to a bloke, I said, ‘Oh, I’ve just come up
to have a look at the Bluebird,’ and he said, ‘You’re not allowed to have a look at
it.’ I said, ‘Listen, I’m the Member of Parliament for this district, I want to have a
look at the Bluebird.’ ‘Oh, you should come right in,’ you know. (laughter)
Couldn’t open the bloody door quick enough! I had to pull rank on him! (loud
laughter)
So it does work.
TOM:
Oh, too right – it did up there, anyway.
MARGARET:
It’s not what you know, it’s who you know.
Yes, always. So you had a bit to do with Fred Hux[?]?
TOM:
Oh, a lot of – yes, Freddie, he put down a couple of bores for me and he
pulled up a lot of pipes for me. Lost a damn good pump down the bottom – yes,
brand new it was, too. We tried to fish it out but we couldn’t get it and I said, ‘Oh,
Freddie, don’t worry about it.’ And then we hired the council bulldozer to clean out
my dam and I said to Freddie, I said, ‘Now, look, Fred, be careful,’ I said, ‘the
dam’s not quite dry,’ I said, ‘you know, it’s pretty muddy.’ I said, ‘You’d better
take it gradually on the side.’ He went straight in and we got bogged, wow! We
had a hell of a job to get out. We had to get sleepers, tie them onto the tracks and
then gradually back out. Oh, God, it was a job. Took us nearly all day, half a day to
get out. I said, ‘What the hell were you doing going in like that, Fred?’ He said,
‘Oh, I thought I’d just go in there, you know, boom.’ That’d be Fred, you know.
He went in where angels fear to tread. (laughter) But that didn’t worry Fred. We
got the dam cleaned out eventually.
He knew the North-East country, didn’t he?
62
TOM:
Oh yes, yes.
Okay, well, that’s that.
MARGARET:
Okay, John.
Hope you enjoy your peek in the book and – – –.
TOM:
Oh, we will.
MARGARET:
Oh, this is ours?
You can have that, yes.
TOM:
Yes, and that’s very good – – –.
END OF INTERVIEW.
63