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Sept. 21 Homer, Odyssey 1-4
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> What role do women play in this book? Penelope does not act like a mother to Telemachos
rather she waits in his household while suitors destroy his estate. Why does she not drive the
suitors away or pick one? Why does she not return to her father's estate? On a more simple
level why must she take a suitor? Why was a grieving widow not respected in Greece,
especially the widow of a war hero? I have all questions and no answers.
>While reading the first few books of the Odyssey, I was incredibly confused by the roles
played by Telemachus and Penelope. It was incredibly strange to me that they had let Ithaca fall
to such ruins around them. Penelope seemed to me to be a very loose and stupid woman who
was leading on many men for many years. I just don't understand why she didn't just send
them away and live as a widow. I'm also not quite sure why she didn't just marry one so that
the kingdom would stay intact. Twenty years is a long time for someone in Penelope's situation
to hold out waiting for her husband to return. It also made no sense why Telemachus didn't just
drive the suitors from the house. He was twenty years old by this time, and well into his
adulthood in that ancient culture. Instead, he behaves like a baby and lets men come into his
house and dishonor his mother who he won't take full responsibility for. He should take the
situation into his own hands and take the kingdom into his own hands because it is his rite and
it would bring order to the broken community created by his loose mother. I was honestly
grossed out by the dynamics between the two and it really turned me off to the reading.
Thanks,
Bridget
>I found myself particularly interested in the relationship between Telemacho's mother,
Penelope, and the suitors that are running her husband's kingdom into the ground. She seems
to enjoy the attention, as I don't believe she ever outright refuses to remarry - she even promises
to marry after the completion of "a shroud {she weaves} for Lord Laertes", but then continues to
unravel it every night so that it may never be finished. She never submits to a marriage, but at
the same time, won't refuse to - it's like she's sort of in this limbo with the absence of her
husband. Does she know her husband is to return? If she is I don't see why she wouldn't just tell
the suitors off. You said that the suitors misinterpret her, although I find her hard to interpret
myself. I'm sorry if this is more of a question than a realization - I just found this really hard to
put my finger on.
FYS: Sept. 21, 2010
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>What I found most intriguing, and thus effective, about the beginning of The Odyssey is the
strategy of starting in the middle of the action—and most importantly, of starting far away from
the protagonist and where he is being held captive. This strategy makes everything more
urgent, more suspenseful in the reader’s mind. While the “prologue” in Olympus gives us
knowledge of Odysseus’s whereabouts, this knowledge only makes us more eager for
Telemachos to get moving and find out where his father is so he can begin to sort things out.
I was amazed by all the instances of trickery I already noted in the book; these are not limited to
tales of Odysseus in the wooden horse or dressing up as a beggar, but also Penelope’s ruse with
the shroud that she keeps undoing every night and Athena’s various disguises. Interestingly
enough, these are both women.
Speaking of women, I also found Nestor’s daughter bathing Telemachos very—awkward, to say
the least. It is difficult to pinpoint what the power and status of women in this time truly is—at
moments servants like Eurykleia seem to have great influence, at others Penelope cannot visit
with male guests without her husband present (but does), and at yet another Nestor’s daughter
bathes Telemachos as if she was a slave.
Also, a question: did the term “odyssey” come from the name Odysseus being used in this epic,
or vice versa? Same with “Telemachy” and Telemachos.
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>This work looks at liberation from such a different point of view. The first few books have
been from the point of view of "abolitionists". Telemachos is trying to help bring his father (the
slave) home. This point of view is very different and sets the stage for very interesting
discussion topics, such as why men would wish so much ill on the great man Odysseus just
because they want his wife and title. They are so quick to leave him for dead in order to satisfy
their selfish motives.
¶Another interesting topic regarding slaves is the old slave Eurykleia. She loves her masters
and is loved in return and seems to be treated and held much differently than the previous
slaves we have discussed. Maybe it is because she was captured at war and is regarded as a
person, but she just owes Laertes her life. I am not sure as to why but her status seems to be
very different and Telemachos, or anyone else, does not seem to be ruined by slavery like the
other slaveholders have been.
>I do not really have a response/statement to the first four books because I have read it before so
nothing seemed to surprise me, but I have always wondered what was the significance of
Homer always noting that Athene has gray eyes?
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FYS: Sept. 21, 2010
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>I found this reading to be rather interesting and challenging. It is a curiosity, how the absence
of a leader can change the course of a family and a nation. What occurs because of this absence,
however, is truly intriguing. The son searching for his long lost father shows a leadership all of
its own. There seems to be adequate support for him to reach out and seize the day.
¶On a different note, the very first few pages of the reading caught me by surprise. The careful
tone the characters use seem quite different from the tone used in the Iliad. Phrases such as,
"See, I will accurately answer all that you ask me," set me in a tentative mindset. One of the
main questions running through my mind was, why did the author set the tone in such a way?
Of course, the answer becomes much clearer as you continue to read on. Similar to Frederick
Douglass, the characters seem very deliberate and careful about the meaning behind every
word they pronounce.
>I find it interesting to think of the story of the odyssey and its connection to the idea of
enslavement and liberation. So far in the story we see the practice of servitude that was
common during that time. There were servants and maids for everything in the houses of
royalty and they were treated as servants, nothing more. There is also the role odysseus plays as
a slave master in his rule over his men in continuing their seemingly endless journey home. But
I am interested in the notion that the gods themselves may be seen as slave masters and or
supreme rulers. The lives of every person during this time was mainly concerned with pleasing
the gods. Their will was final and not easily changed. The people in this story are forced to do
the gods bidding or face their wrath and serve to do whatever the gods decide.
>I found this reading to be complex because of the many different gods, but the basic point was
that Odysseus is missing and his son and wife miss him greatly. There was great use of
personification which was in part due to the multiple gods.
¶I do not understand why Odysseus was named a hero and yet the gods did not favor him.
Why was he trapped on the island?
- In other versions of the Odyssey that I have read, the story starts off with “Sing in me Muse.”
Why has Lattimore decided to alternate the introduction?
-On the same note, why does he spell Clytemnestra’s name “Klytaimestra?” And Athena’s
name “Athene?”
-How does Telemachos realize that Mentor is actually Athena?
-Both Telemachos and Odysseus are described as “godlike”
-Clever response from Telemachos “My mother says indeed I am his, I for my part/do not
know. Nobody really knows his own father.”
-Telemachos really takes charge when he tells his mom to “Go therefore back in the house, and
take up your own work,/the loom and the distaff.”
-Why does Telemachos doubt the gods in front of Athene?
-Interesting that all the hosts want to find out their guests’ backgrounds after they eat and not
during.
FYS: Sept. 21, 2010
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>It was hard for me to understand and analyze in depth the details of the Odyssey, particularly
because of its poetic syntax which I'm not acquainted with.
¶Throughout the reading, I was interested in the role of Athena. She "assists" Telemachos,
encouraging and advising him. Despite her divinity, she plays the same role as the maids in
hosts do -- preparing him for his journey. Would this be related to Athena's gender as female?
>Although this book is in a very different format from anything I've ever read, the plot seemed,
for some reason, very familiar to me. As I got further along in my reading, I realized why: it
greatly reminded me of Shakespeare's Hamlet.
- In both stories, there is a dead, yet ever-present father figure (ie. the Ghost in Hamlet/
Odysseus' legacy).
-The mother will be getting remarried short after becoming a widow.
-Both Hamlet and Telemachus come from highly esteemed families, yet they both appear to be
very modest men.
-Homes have been taken over by unwanted, selfish male suitors (Claudius/various other men
present in The Odyssey)
-There is a plot to kill the protagonist (Hamlet/Telemachus).
Here are my questions concerning The Odyssey:
>On line 398 of book one, Telemachos proclaims that he will be lord of his servants which were
won over by Odysseus's force. I think that it's interesting that Telemachos inherites the servants
of his father in Odysseus's absence; that servants were like material commodities that could be
passed down from one generation to the next. Why is it that Homer decided to label them
servants and not slaves?
¶What is the significance of being thoughtful? Most, if not all, characters seem to posses this
trait but if it were so common of a trait then why bother to mention it over and over again?
¶Whenever Athene and Telemachos arrive upon a new destination, it is common to find it's
inhabitants in celebration. Why is everyone celebrating? What can this do for the story?
¶What is the purpose of repeating the following line: "Now when the young Dawn showed
again with her rosy fingers"? why the repetition? Does it merely illustrate the importance of
consistency in story telling?
FYS: Sept. 21, 2010
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