This show is brought to you by Audible. Audible is the world’s leading provider of audio books, with over 150,000 titles to choose from. They literally have everything. Now, you can get one free audio book just by going to Audiblepodcast.com/rupaul. That’s right. You get one free audio book and a 30 day free trial at Audiblepodcast.com/rupaul. Now go over there and support them, because they support us. RUPAUL: Hello, this is RuPaul and Michelle Visage, and this is What’s the Tee? – our funny, funny, fabulous podcast that we had to do. We had to do this. MICHELLE: And informative. RUPAUL: It’s informative. You will get takeaway, you will get life advice> Plus you’ll be entertained by our wackiness. MICHELLE: Our witty banter. RUPAUL: Our witty banter. MICHELLE: We’ve been friend for – we’ve been “friend”… RUPAUL: We been friend – she been my friend – no, actually, first she was my play cousin. MICHELLE: ’Den I was a friend. “We been friend” for a long time, 20 plus years, and through those years, I think we’ve experienced a lot, up and down and around, and I think that there’s a lot of knowledge here between the both of our heads to give out to everybody. We want you to be let in on our friendship. RUPAUL: Obviously, we’re entertained by it, but in between breaks on the TV show, RuPaul’s Drag Race, we’re talking, and we have guest stars who are on, and they’re fascinated by our banter. Because you know, we finish each other’s sentences and we’re just that – we’re those kids. So that’s why we’re doing the podcast, and I’m sure you will enjoy it. So keep joining us every other week, and I’m sure you’ll be entertained and… MICHELLE: Happy. Yeah, you can take it home, you can share it with your friends, tell everybody about it, but one thing is for sure: you will not be bored. RUPAUL: That’s right. MICHELLE: You’ll love it, you’ll be in on it, and thank you so much for joining us. RUPAUL: And don’t forget to subscribe on iTunes. MICHELLE: It’s easy; push the button. RUPAUL: Yeah! Now Michelle, we want to start this podcast off with RuPaul’s Drag Race information. MICHELLE: Yes, the insiders. RUPAUL: Because right now, we’re about to audition Season 7 girls. MICHELLE: Can you believe it? RUPAUL: It’s crazy. It really is crazy. But what’s interesting about the process of auditioning it – I know you’ve done auditions yourself in your life, in show business – is that everybody does the exact same thing. MICHELLE: Not knowing, by the way. This queen doesn’t know this queen, but the audition tapes are identical. It’s pretty amazing. RUPAUL: It’s like when people – they say that the cavemen discovered fire at the same time. It’s that sort of – what do they call it? Serendipitous so-­‐and-­‐so. MICHELLE: Let’s go with that. RUPAUL: Let’s go with that. But every queen ends up doing an audition that they think I want them to do, rather than doing themselves. MICHELLE: And then they come to me and they say, “Can you help me? What do you think I should do for this audition tape?” What they don’t understand – and kids, hear this now – I have nothing, literally zero – yes, Ru is my best friend and I have his ear, but I do not have anything to do with the audition process. So what I tell the kids is “Do what they tell you to do,” but the most important thing – and tell me if I’m wrong with any of this; tell me if I’m giving ill advice – the most important thing they can do is be true to who they are, and make that come out in their video. And show us that you’re human. RUPAUL: Right. Right, because what people don’t understand is that the show and the cast is an ensemble, and certain people are doing almost the same energy, and if one person does that exact same energy better than the other… MICHELLE: You’re going to go with that one. RUPAUL: We’re going to go with that one. But the truth is, some people have a certain energy to them that may not be good for this season, but will be better for next season. MICHELLE: And you do remember. RUPAUL: And I will remember. Because Alaska, she auditioned – MICHELLE: Five times. RUPAUL: Five times. MICHELLE: Every single one. And if you look at the casting special, you can find it – if it’s not on Logo, it’s on YouTube. It’s somewhere. You can find it. You will see baby Alaska in the casting special that you did; you can’t even see her in there. She is nowhere near the monster that she’s created for Season 5. Seriously. RUPAUL: In fact, what’s funny about that is because she couldn’t have done the show before Sharon Needles, and I’ve got to tell you why: Sharon Needles is doing what we call gender f-­‐word. Obviously, we can cuss on this thing, but I’m not going to. MICHELLE: Always a lady. RUPAUL: Always a lady. It’s called “gender f-­‐word,” and that’s a genre of drag that is as old as Methuselah. But we felt on the show that it wasn’t time to introduce the public to it until we eased them into… MICHELLE: Mainstream drag. RUPAUL: Exactly. MICHELLE: Yeah, yeah, yeah. RUPAUL: So by the time Sharon Needles came along, which was season what? MICHELLE: Four. RUPAUL: Season 4, she was such a personality – MICHELLE: Yes, Grandma. RUPAUL: She was such a likable personality, and so smart, that she could introduce the public to this style of drag without alienating people. MICHELLE: Because of the vulnerability factor. RUPAUL: Yes. MICHELLE: And the kids don’t get it. What we’re saying, if that word is too big for y’all – and I’m not trying to be shady – but if you’re not understanding what that means, that means we need to see the human side of you. We know that you’re a fierce queen, we know that you can death drop till your leg breaks like Shangela. But the bottom line is, if we don’t know who you are as a person – I know you. I know what you want. If you’re not going to see them, really see them, you’re not going to have any interest. RUPAUL: That’s right. You can’t root for someone that you don’t really fall in love with and you don’t see that vulnerability. Because in the interviews – I say this all the time-­‐ at its core, RuPaul’s Drag Race is about the tenacity of the human spirit and how everybody wants to be seen, they want to be heard, they want to be recognized. So all of these gorgeous, beautiful creatures on the show – MICHELLE: And you all are. RUPAUL: And they all are. They were these little disenfranchised boys from suburbs and small towns around the United States who have decided, “You know what? I’m going to do my thing no matter what. I’m going to be who I am in a masculine-­‐dominated culture. I’m going to work with the feminine. I’m going to do it.” MICHELLE: And do it. RUPAUL: And do it well. So that’s what the show’s about. If the people in the auditions can’t show that vulnerability, or they’re copying or trying to be something that they think I want from them, it doesn’t read. It’s not true. MICHELLE: It’s not true. And the funny thing is, they don’t get that – and it’s a very big concept, so I understand why they don’t get it. But I will tell you guys a little story. Ru and I went to lunch one time at one of our favorite cheat meal restaurants called Mo’s in Burbank. RUPAUL: Oh, I love Mo’s. MICHELLE: Yes, we love their pasta. RUPAUL: It’s next to Bob’s Big Boy down in Toluca Lake. MICHELLE: And if you go, you get the pesto farfalle. RUPAUL: It’s the farfalle. It’s the pesto – I get it with chicken. It’s a bowtie chicken. It’s a bowtie pasta with chicken… MICHELLE: Sundried tomatoes. RUPAUL: Sundried tomatoes… MICHELLE: And parmesan toast. RUPAUL: And parmesan toast. Oh my God, the parmesan toast. It’s so delicious. My mouth is watering right now. MICHELLE: We get extra parmesan toast, but don’t tell anybody. RUPAUL: Don’t tell anybody. MICHELLE: It’s obvious in my tits this season. With that said, we had a waiter once – and I don’t know if you remember this moment, but we were sitting there, and I was amazed because this waiter – the server came over and was just so harried and in a rush, and the place wasn’t that crowded. But Ru and I were having our moment, as we always do. We don’t see each other every day, you guys, but when we do, to me, it’s glorious every time we’re together. I leave always feeling refreshed, always – honest to God. I think in the 20-­‐something years we’ve been friends, we had our situation once because of a misunderstanding, but friends and true soulmates will always have that love, and that’s the connection that we share. So we sit down, we have lunch, and I’m there with my buddy, and the server comes over and doesn’t look Ru in the eyes. Ru’s like, “Okay, no, no, no, no, no. Can you start all over, but this time, can you look at me? Because I want you to hear what I’m saying.” I can’t remember if it was a girl or a guy, but they were like, “Mm, I got to go take” – and Ru’s like, “No, no, no, no, no. Stop. Just look at me.” That’s what Ru’s looking for. Ru is looking for that inner connection that is not going to come from you standing there holding up dresses from your closet. He wants to see you become this character. He wants to see who you are. And when you’re in boy stuff, be your boy. Don’t be this fake persona that you think – I’m telling you, he’s going to see right through it. This is my message to you: he’s going to see through that bullshit. He doesn’t fall for it. He’s an evolved person. He walked in your shoes. That’s why I feel like he’s at this moment in time. RUPAUL: It’s funny you say that, because everybody doesn’t believe that they’re good enough as they are. You know, it takes a long time on this planet – MICHELLE: I don’t. I get it. RUPAUL: It takes a long time, lots of therapy and lots of life coaching, for people to realize that you are good enough as you are. Now, yes, the criteria for the show is one thing. You have to be able to jump through all these hoops. MICHELLE: Yes, and we get that. RUPAUL: But in terms of who you are as a person, you really are perfect. I went on an audition a couple weeks ago at Paramount for some sitcom. My agents do this – whether I get it or not, I really don’t care. I’m in a place where it doesn’t matter; I’m okay. But I go in there, and I know that what I’m really doing is showing what my rhythm is, what my personality is. It’s like a painter who has all these colors to paint from, different shades of purple or whatever. They have an idea of what painting they’re going to do, and maybe this painting, they’re not going to do purple. But next time they do a painting with purple in it, they’ll go, “Oh, I remember that purple that I saw that one time. Where is that purple? I want to use that.” And that’s what auditions are like, and that’s how I see them. I don’t take it personally. I know that a lot of jobs I’ve gotten in the past have come from they remembered me for something I didn’t get. MICHELLE: Right. They want to know that you have that purple. RUPAUL: Exactly. They want to see what my shade of purple is. So that’s the real thing. Audition after audition after audition that people send in for RuPaul’s Drag Race, there are people who are doing the exact same thing. So when someone does do something interesting or off-­‐the-­‐cuff or unique, you go, “Wait a minute – what was that? Who was that?” MICHELLE: But interesting doesn’t mean crazy. RUPAUL: No, it doesn’t mean crazy. It just means unique, unique to yourself, of who you are. Because everybody’s – they’re all beautiful girls. They’re all beautiful girls. MICHELLE: Amen. RUPAUL: That’s right. MICHELLE: Even the ones that you like to be calling ratchet, people out there. They’re still, to me – and I’ve said it time and again, being raised by drag queens, for me, if you have the nerve, if you have the balls – pun intended – to get out there and do what these kids do, you deserve all the respect in the world. Because for me, drag is the most criticized, the most – I think drag and trans people, and I’m talking within the community, they’re the ones that get picked on, ostracized, made fun of, left out of. You think it’s not easy being gay? Try being a trans person or try being a drag queen, a boy who’s not only gay, but dresses up like a girl. And better than most women, mind you. So these are the most difficult section of the LGBT community. RUPAUL: You’re right, you’re right. What’s interesting about that is in a male-­‐dominated culture, it’s almost an act of treason to use femininity, even for – MICHELLE: In some countries it is. Literally. RUPAUL: Yeah, absolutely, but not even just for men; even for women to use femininity, it’s thought of as weak and it’s not valued at all. MICHELLE: Agreed. RUPAUL: So I have such a place in my heart for anybody who’s courageous enough to do it. Because you know they’ve been persecuted, you name it. Everything has happened to them. MICHELLE: Yeah. So the bottom line is, for the audition tapes, we want – and I’m saying “we” because I want to show that I have nothing to do with it – you’re looking for vulnerability, creativity, something out of the normal, but not stupid. Y’all don’t need to be jumping rope while singing “Star Spangled Banner,” although… RUPAUL: Although I’d love to see that. MICHELLE: Me too. And being rue to who they are. So that’s fair, right? RUPAUL: Yeah, absolutely. But you know what’s funny too – and we’re going to close this segment out, but everybody with a pussy cat wig and a pair of cha-­‐cha heels thinks they can be on the show, but as you well know, we put these kids through so many challenges. There’s acting challenges. But we push you to that wall, that place where you think you can’t go any further, but it’s always so amazing when someone fights through. Like – I’m not going to name any names, because I want to make this – but… MICHELLE: Let’s say Jinkx Monsoon. You can say Jinkx. RUPAUL: Oh yes, Jinkx. MICHELLE: When Jinkx made her transformation. RUPAUL: She made her transformation, definitely with the beauty. She always had the talent, she always had the heart. But in how she understood what the criticism was about her makeup. A lot of kids come to the show with club makeup, which works great with a strobe light, but with a television camera in your face – MICHELLE: It’s a whole different game, honey. RUPAUL: It’s a whole different game. MICHELLE: And me – I can say me in particular, since I’m the harshest judge – it’s not that I or we are trying to change who you are, not at all. We want you to be the best you that you can be. That’s what it is, so when you leave RuPaul’s Drag Race, win or lose, you have expanded your repertoire, and you’re not just doing Janet Jackson in the nightclub for the next 30 years, because those gigs are going to dry up. You expanding your repertoire and your horizon and your looks and just reaching out and doing stuff that you’re so uncomfortable with doing – do you think it’s easy for me to sit there with my boobs out and have big hair? No, it’s not. I have to push myself every week, because I’m sitting next to the most gorgeous monster on the face of the earth. I’m a shy, turtleneck-­‐wearing, long-­‐skirt-­‐having woman who goes to church, not only on Sundays, but every day. That’s the truth of the matter. So we encourage you to give it all you’ve got, and don’t be afraid. Ru is not ever going to think anything negative of you. Give it all you got. RUPAUL: Give it all you got. MICHELLE: And he watches every single last one of those tapes. RUPAUL: I love it, I love it, I love it. What’s interesting, too, about – after the girls leave the show and they see themselves on the show – because you know, it takes months to edit it together – they get to watch along with the rest of the world. They get to see those places where they are stuck or where they can’t move beyond. If they don’t move beyond in the context of the show, they definitely do it later. Now, you go on tour with them. You’re on the Battle of the Seasons tour with them all the time. Do you see the growth on the road, post-­‐show? MICHELLE: I see the growth almost immediately, and I’ll use one queen in particular, Serena ChaCha, who went home very early Season 5. RUPAUL: She was on the tour? MICHELLE: She was not on the tour, but when I’m out and about and we do local gigs – like if we’re in Florida, I see her performing. I go watch whoever I can, when I can stay awake, and then I go out into the clubs and watch them. She has evolved so much from this soft sculpture Pinocchio child that she was on the show, and she comes up and she’s proud of what she’s doing. I tell her, “Girl, if I see you kick them shoes off, there’s gonna be a problem.” But they get it, and they do grow. Out on the tour, I see things – and you came, so you saw it. I am so literally blown away by the talent. Because when we do watch the show, even me, because I don’t know – you know a lot more; it’s your show. You’re back there with the kids in the workroom, I’m not. I only see what I’m there to judge, and that’s the main stage challenge. So I don’t know anything about them, I don’t know anything about their personalities or what talents they have. And quite honestly, it’s an hour show. There’s a lot to fit in with 14 queens, so guess what? We’re not going to see all the talents these kids have. So when I’m out there on the road with them, Battle of the Seasons tour, or even just doing club gigs, I am blown away consistently by the amount of talent that some of these kids have. RUPAUL: But do they display the talent that they didn’t display on the show itself? MICHELLE: Correct. They do. RUPAUL: Do they evolve even more? MICHELLE: I think they show little snippets of it on the show, but you don’t really get it, because you’re like, “Oh, Ivy can walk on stilts.” But then when you see Ivy Winters do her gig onstage, eating fire, juggling stuff, walking on stilts, it’s like “Oh my God, she’s really a circus act!” Or you see Jinkx Monsoon perform something from Barber of Seville, Stephen Sondheim, you know what I’m saying. That musical. It’s like it blows your mind. It blows your mind. RUPAUL: It’s funny – I want to start the next – MICHELLE: Sweeney Todd, sorry. RUPAUL: Sweeney Todd. I want to start the next segment, which is a segue into it, because talking about having people around you who can point you in the right direction, people you can trust. Because that’s what we’re talking about. We’re talking about Drag Race and what the judges’ role on the show is, to say “Look, I’m seeing this, but you’re doing this, and I see the potential you have here, but I think you could probably push this further.” That’s the judges’ role. MICHELLE: Yeah, and it’s not mean. RUPAUL: It’s not mean, it’s not mean. But I’m going to talk about that. You’ve been in show business your whole life; I want to talk about having people in your corner who can say “A little to the left, a little to the right.” MICHELLE: Okay, so when welcome back, that’s what we’re going to talk about: how to surround yourself with the right people to further your career. RUPAUL: Yeah, not just your career, but even your look. MICHELLE: Life. RUPAUL: Everything in life. MICHELLE: Life. RUPAUL: Having your committee of people who you can trust. MICHELLE: Love it. Your posse. RUPAUL: Let’s do that. MICHELLE: Okay. RUPAUL: This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. They’re the all-­‐in-­‐one platform that makes it easy and fast to create your own professional website or online portfolio. I used Squarespace to make my website, and you should too. Just look at my rupaulpodcast.com. It took two hours to make, and looks better than if I had paid a website designer. Get a free trial with no credit card required, just by going on squarespace.com. When you’re blown away and ready to confirm a plan, just use the offer code “RU” to get 10% off. That’s squarespace.com, offer code “RU.” By supporting Squarespace, you keep our podcast free. So go to Squarespace. Support us. We are back with What’s the Tee with Ru and Michelle. MICHELLE: What’s the Tee? RUPAUL: What’s the tee, girl? People always want to know “what the tee,” what that means. That’s an old – the gay children came up with that term. The “T” means the truth. MICHELLE: Correct. RUPAUL: It is the truth. So when someone says, “Girl, what’s the tee on him?”, it’s an abbreviation of truth. MICHELLE: Give us the tee. Give us the truth, yes. RUPAUL: And of course, on our show, the kids say “no tee, no shade,” so it’s like saying “I’m going to tell you the truth, but I don’t mean this to harm you. I’m not trying to be evil.” MICHELLE: Which they are. RUPAUL: Which they are, at the same time. I love “no tee, no shade,” but at the same time, “all tee, all shade.” MICHELLE: Right. Which of course, the kids out in the clubs have changed to “no tee sell [sp], no shade.” Which I know that you’d appreciate. RUPAUL: Well, that’s Lady Bunny who started that. MICHELLE: Yes, I’m sure it was. RUPAUL: Yes. That’s the thing about gay culture, is that it’s irreverent, and it’s all the places that you’re told not to go. Because I mean, just break it down. MICHELLE: Do it. Break it down, Ru. RUPAUL: Let me break it down for you. Because as a little gay boy, I wanted to – MICHELLE: Wait a minute. RUPAUL: Yeah, now it can be told. MICHELLE: Wait a minute. RUPAUL: Yes, I’m gay. MICHELLE: You’re gay? Oh my God, I’m so offended. I’m going home. Where’s Michelle Bachmann? RUPAUL: I don’t want to compromise your Christianity or anything. MICHELLE: Girl, that’s been compromised a long time ago. Along with some other things. RUPAUL: Well, I’ve heard. I’ve read it on the interwebs. MICHELLE: That was a bathroom stall. RUPAUL: Yeah, yeah. Anyway, as a little boy, I wanted to fit in. I wanted to fit in. I thought, “Okay, I’m smart. I can figure this out.” So I studied culture, I studied society and what everybody else was doing, and after I gathered the information, I realized “I don’t want to fit into that at all! It’s a hoax. It’s a sham. It’s nothing I want to be involved with at all.” With that knowledge of uncovering that cruel hoax of life, or society, I thought, well, the only place I can find solace and a place to be is in the irreverent, and to make fun of it. But that’s a double-­‐edged sword, because that same irreverence can also hurt you. It can turn you really bitter. MICHELLE: Yes, but if you lose touch of the fact that it’s meant to be cheeky. Yes, if you buy into it, you can lose your sense and get real jaded and bitter. But that’s not going to benefit anybody. But it does happen a lot, and we’ve seen it happen a lot. RUPAUL: I’ve seen it happen more often than not. We come from the New York scene, and everybody moved to New York, in those days, and probably still today, to move there to become a big star. MICHELLE: A star, yeah. RUPAUL: I’m older than Michelle; in my era, we grew up with looking at Interview Magazine and over the Warhol experience, where all these kids come from small towns from all over to move to New York, change their name, create a persona, and become an Andy Warhol star. And that template lasted for many, many years. A lot of them, who were ultra-­‐smart, ultra-­‐sensitive – some didn’t make it. Most don’t make it – make it in terms of big super stardom, or even just above – MICHELLE: But that’s in general. That’s not just gay kids. That’s just show biz in general. RUPAUL: Yes, you’re absolutely right. MICHELLE: 98% of the people are not going to make it. RUPAUL: The thing is, how does one not become bitter? How does one level that off or balance it off with a spiritual side or something to where you don’t get so jaded about everything that you can’t even leave the house in the morning? MICHELLE: It’s surrounding yourself with the right people. And that helps a lot, and it’s not always just “Oh, okay, easy for you guys to say. I’ll just go out and find myself the right people.” Yes, it is difficult, but you do find, throughout the years, the people that make you feel good. The people that give you the advice. These are the people that you shouldn’t push away from when you can’t face your own demons. These are the people that you should be running to. RUPAUL: Yeah, and I’ve had them over the years. I can always talk to you. MICHELLE: And vice versa. RUPAUL: Randy upstairs – we’re actually recording this at World of Wonder, in the studio. MICHELLE: Our fabulous production company. RUPAUL: Yes, and Randy and Fenton, I’ve known them – I met them in 1985 at the Marriott Marquis. MICHELLE: Would you say they discovered you, in a sense? RUPAUL: You know what, I would say I discovered myself. And then I discovered myself years – even as probably a 13-­‐year-­‐old, I thought, “Oh, I’ve got something.” I did. MICHELLE: I love it. RUPAUL: But it wasn’t until I met – I saw in Randy’s eyes – I get a little verklempt when I talk about this, but I met him in the lobby at the Marriott Marquis in Times Square. MICHELLE: What were you doing in the lobby? RUPAUL: It was the New Music Seminar, and every year, they would put this convention on for independent artists to go and have this convention and get signed or talk to other people. MICHELLE: What year was this? RUPAUL: This was 1985. MICHELLE: And you fancied yourself a singer back then? RUPAUL: Absolutely. I knew I had something. I didn’t know what I was going to do. I didn’t know it’d be drag; I didn’t know what it would be. I just knew that I had to leave the house to do it. MICHELLE: And you had substances in your life back then. RUPAUL: Oh, hell to the yes. You know, I need a little something stronger than coffee to get me up above 14th Street. MICHELLE: I know it, girl. And you had the wherewithal to bring your high ass over to the Marriott Marquis in Times Square. RUPAUL: In daylight, honey. This is like 2:00 in the afternoon. MICHELLE: And you’re kind of gender pluck? RUPAUL: I was doing – and I’m sure there’s footage on YouTube if you want to look, but I was wearing – at this point, I had – MICHELLE: Were you doing the football shoulders? RUPAUL: Football shoulder pads that were draped with white plastic bags that were cut into strips. MICHELLE: So kind of like Cher’s wig in her new video. RUPAUL: Kind of like that. But very Haysi Fantayzee meets Thunderdome Mad Max in the shoulder pads, and this huge mohawk. It was a hairpiece, but my hair was shaved on the sides. I had this mohawk that was supplemented with this hairpiece. Crazy, outrageous, with wading boots on, like fishermen’s wading boots on. MICHELLE: And panties? Or short shorts? RUPAUL: I didn’t have on a jockstrap, but I had on a loincloth thing. It was daytime. It was day wear. MICHELLE: That’s your conservative look. RUPAUL: Yes. But I met Randy – I was introduced to him through Dick Richards, my Atlanta mentor, and I could see in Randy’s eyes – I swear to you, Michelle – everything that’s happened to me since my career, all of the amazing breakthroughs in my career, I looked in his eyes, I could see that he saw this happening. MICHELLE: So you saw your future in Randy’s eyes. RUPAUL: I saw my future in his eyes, and it was the first time I’d looked at somebody in their eyes and I could see that they saw what I already knew. MICHELLE: That’s crazy. RUPAUL: I could see it. So this MF, I’ve been working – actually, the next year, they produced an album for me called Star Booty, the first Star Booty album. MICHELLE: The original. RUPAUL: The original Star Booty. I went and did another Star Booty album years later, like ’05 or something. But this was the original, in ’86, they did that. But my point is, I’ve had people throughout my life who I could trust to say “A little to the left. Oh, no, do your shoulder over here.” MICHELLE: But how many? RUPAUL: Very few, very few. MICHELLE: People need to know that. It’s quality, not quantity. RUPAUL: And also it’s being willing to hear what they have to say. Because Mathu and Zaldy, who I met in the late ’80s… MICHELLE: You met them and Suzanne Bartsch? RUPAUL: Well, I met Zaldy, who still does the costumes, the dresses and stuff. MICHELLE: Yeah, Zaldy makes all Ru’s dresses, by the way. RUPAUL: Yes. I met him in probably ’86 or ’87 in New York, just running around the clubs. And then I met Mathu – MICHELLE: Because Zaldy was always out. RUPAUL: Always out. And then I met Mathu, who was his partner, in ’89 at this Linda Simpson event. MICHELLE: Linda Simpson – Elvis Presley Linda Simpson? RUPAUL: No, no, no. This is – was it the Ukrainian – it’s like a rec center or a society center. It’s on 2nd Avenue, between 13th and 11th or 11th and 10th. It’s on the east side of 2nd Avenue. MICHELLE: And you were doing what at a Ukrainian rec center? RUPAUL: Linda Simpson had this party there. You could rent it out, obviously. MICHELLE: Oh, okay, like a hall. RUPAUL: Yeah, it’s a hall. It’s a hall, it’s a hall. And I met Mathu there for the first time, and he wasn’t with Zaldy at that point; they weren’t together at that point. MICHELLE: As a couple. RUPAUL: As a couple. But I remember meeting him. You know that’s so weird, when you meet somebody – and there’s so many people you meet, but I remember him. MICHELLE: Yes, yes, yes. RUPAUL: Who would’ve thought – that was ’89 – all these years later – what year is it now? MICHELLE: ’14. RUPAUL: It’s 2014. MICHELLE: B.C. RUPAUL: That this MF would still be in my life – MICHELLE: Not only still be in your life, but what a forward-­‐thinking genius freak is Mathu Andersen? RUPAUL: Oh my God. Oh my God, yes. Crazy. MICHELLE: But that’s loyalty, too. Surrounding yourself with the right people also has to do with the fact that there are people that are so loyal, and there’s something to be said for loyalty. And I am living proof, because you are continuously loyal to me. Ru had told me years ago, having our moment, coming through the – we used to do morning radio together in New York City – having our moment, coming through the Holland Tunnel, and I said to Ru – because we would share car service coming from Jersey City, where the radio station was, into New York City every day, not only to go home, but to tape the VH1 show. And I said to Ru, “I’m on VH1 now. This has been my dream since I was like 16 years old.” Mind you, it was MTV, but VH1 was good. You wanted TV, you’ll take VH1. And they were using me for red carpet interviews. I was doing it. I was doing it, and I said to Ru, “I can’t thank you enough for helping my dream come true.” Ru says, “Bitch, you make me look better. That’s why you’re there.” And I was like, “All right, then that’s my job. I know my place.” The point is, I don’t care if I’ll be Michelle in a pocket for Ru forever; we work well together because we understand each other. We can finish each other’s sentences. We know each other’s thoughts. I could look Ru in the eye and know exactly what he’s thinking at any given point. And there’s something to be said for that. I am completely loyal to Ru, because Ru is completely loyal to me. And there’s something to be said about loyalty. So you guys can’t forget that, because not only are the people going to tell you, “Okay, girl, you can’t go out like that.” Come on. And I say that – I do it – okay, Britney Spears is a perfect example. I love Britney. I’ll be a fan to death. But I look at her in some pictures sometimes, onstage – or backstage, like there was one recently with Lady Gaga where her hairline was down to her eyebrow – and I did a post on the Wow Report, and I said, “Where are her gays [sp]?” I don’t understand why somebody would not tell her – and you’re standing next to Gaga, who is a – she’s a great lace front wearer. She knows how to wear a wig. Why wouldn’t somebody say, “Oh girl, you can’t”? So there is something to be said about those people in your life. RUPAUL: Absolutely. There’s a business to be done there. I think there should be a consultant firm, like Your Personal Gay or You Need More Gay in Your Life or something, where you could go and have people actually break it down for you. “No T, no shade, but this is what it’s really all about here.” But you have to be willing to take your ego out of it for this to actually work. MICHELLE: And hear it. RUPAUL: To hear it, absolutely. MICHELLE: And that’s what we experience a lot on the show. These queens don’t want to hear it. You’re going to go backstage and sit in Untucked and say “I don’t give a shit what Michelle said. Santino can take his hemline and shove it up his ass. I’m gonna do me.” Look, we’re not telling you not to do you. We’re saying, “Try this once. See what happens. You never know; if you throw it against the wall enough times, it’s going to stick.” And that’s what it’s about. RUPAUL: You’re right. I believe that the universe has a frequency, it has a stage direction, and if you’re clear enough to hear what that stage direction is, you can move freely. It’s like the salmon who swim against the stream. There is a flow. Like the hawks, those red hawks over by my house that just sort of glide on the heat streams. I don’t believe life is supposed to be as difficult as people make it. Yeah, life is difficult, but I don’t think it’s as difficult as people make it out to be. MICHELLE: It’s about working smarter, not harder. RUPAUL: More efficiently, yes. MICHELLE: Absolutely, and the thing is, to kind of capsulate this, you do surround yourself with the people that you can trust, the people that are loyal to you. And like we said, it’s going to be quality, not quantity. Listen to those people. Take what they’re saying in. Doesn’t mean you’ve got to do it, but hear it. You never know what will happen in the end. RUPAUL: Right. Do you meditate at all? MICHELLE: Here’s the thing; I don’t know how to meditate. RUPAUL: I believe you do. MICHELLE: I know you do, and I try. Is that good enough? RUPAUL: Yeah, okay. MICHELLE: I try. It’s really hard for me to shut down my head. RUPAUL: How is your head? MICHELLE: Well, haven’t had any complaints. And I don’t want to shut down head anytime soon. But it’s very difficult for me, Virgo, Type A, anxiety, freak job – and I know you can relate to this – with kids and a husband and a house and where’s the next dollar coming from, where’s the next job, we all think this way. And for me, I do my very best every night – and I know I should do it in the mornings, too, to just sit and be still. Maybe we can talk about how you do that, and letting the things come in and then go out. RUPAUL: Let’s do that. Let’s have a little pause here, and then we’ll do that in the nest segment. Let’s talk a moment about Squarespace. As Michelle and I were saying, life is not as hard as people think it is. Sometimes, it’s simply about working smarter, not harder. That’s why I use Squarespace. When I used to think about making a website, the first thing that came to mind was paying some guy thousands of dollars for some convoluted website that was hard to follow and navigate. And also, when you have a schedule like mine, ain’t nobody got time to be learning HTML or CSS or JavaScript. That’s when I heard about Squarespace. With Squarespace, I was able to build a beautiful website that serves all of my needs. You can even create an online store, where you can sell your merchandise, and do it all within a matter of hours. Squarespace is incredibly easy to use. It has tons of gorgeous layouts and has a support team available 24/7, converts beautifully on mobile devices, and even has built-­‐in tools to help with search engine optimization on Google. It’s so easy to use that even the most computer illiterate people can create their dream site by using drag-­‐and-­‐drop tools. Look, if you can use Facebook, you can build a Squarespace website. Their plans start at only $8 a month and come with a free domain name when you sign up for a year. $8 a month. So you get a free trial with no credit card required, just by going to squarespace.com. When you’re blown away and ready to confirm your plan, use the offer code “RU” to get 10% off. You’ll be getting a great deal by supporting the podcast and helping to keep it free to you. That’s squarespace.com, offer code “RU.” Thank you for supporting us by supporting them. We talked a little bit about meditation. Now, I believe that because of movies and television, we think that meditation is akin to levitation. MICHELLE: I would like to be able to levitate. RUPAUL: But I think we all have this idea that it’s something that it’s not. It’s actually quieting down your brain – it’s actually even not that big. Your brain doesn’t have to quiet down. You have to become the consciousness – you have to be conscious of your consciousness. See, our language, our words don’t address this thing, because it’s sort of like jacking the system or breaking the code of the way our brains think. I tweeted this – this is an Eckhart Tolle thing this morning; I tweeted “Realizing that you’re not your thoughts and your emotions, but you are the consciousness of those things.” MICHELLE: Okay, so for regular people who don’t know who Eckhart Tolle is, or don’t subscribe to that, or don’t even get it, how do you break it down? Because for me, I was always taught, in yoga class or whatever, trying to meditate is literally you can start with 30 seconds of just trying to shut everything down. Every time a thought comes, like you have to answer the phone, you have to go to the grocery store, let it go and let it leave, let it go and let it leave. So what do you say is an easier way, rather than – because what happens is, my thoughts become completely contaminated with “I have to shut my brain down, I have to shut my brain down,” and that’s working against – right? RUPAUL: No, no, it’s not shutting your brain down. It’s the awareness of your brain doing a thing. Someone said this years ago to me: it’s like watching a river stream just go – you’re sitting on the banks of a river, and you’re watching the water just flow by. Your thoughts – MICHELLE: I think there’s a song there. By Otis Redding. RUPAUL: Yeah, I think so too. Your thoughts is the water going by, and you, the real you, is the one sitting on the bank, just watching the thoughts. And the thoughts don’t stop, but you are the consciousness that’s just watching it. It’s as simple as that. And in that process of doing that, what happens is, you build up muscles, musculature of that consciousness, being aware of those things. It’s that separation of the thoughts and emotions, separated from the consciousness of it, is what the process of meditation is. MICHELLE: How does one do that? We sit down in a quiet room, sitting up, yeah? Preferably? RUPAUL: It’s best to sit up with your back not leaning against something, because otherwise you’ll fall asleep. MICHELLE: Hello. So you’re sitting there with your legs crossed, crisscross applesauce. RUPAUL: They don’t have to be crossed. MICHELLE: But it’s very yogi that way. RUPAUL: Well, if you’re doing a photo session, you might want to do that. But you don’t have to cross your legs. If you are sitting up in a chair, and your back erect – yes, erect – you can close your eyes and breathe. Just focus on your breathing. The thoughts are going to come. The thoughts will come, and that’s all right. MICHELLE: Just let them go. RUPAUL: It’s just like watching that water go. But you, the real you, is the consciousness of those thoughts, and that’s what you want to align yourself with, and that’s where the magic happens. MICHELLE: So what’s the consciousness of those thoughts? What do you mean? RUPAUL: That consciousness is – you are not your feelings. Your feelings are a result of your history, of your past, of your old wounds, of things that Mom and Dad taught. That’s sort of like your computer program. But the real you is a consciousness that transcends all of that. MICHELLE: So do you have mantras that you repeat when you meditate? RUPAUL: Not really. Honestly, the only mantra is, even if I just focus on my breathing – or, this is another trick, is to go “I’m going to try to guess what my next thought is. MICHELLE: And you can’t guess it. RUPAUL: You can’t, because it shuts the system down. It’s a way to override the system in a way where it goes, “Huh, what was that?” That space, even that moment when I said “I’m going to think of what my next thought is,” that space right there… MICHELLE: It’s pressure. RUPAUL: That’s the meditation. MICHELLE: Okay. So how long do you meditate for? You personally. RUPAUL: Personally, I’ll do 15 minutes. MICHELLE: In the morning and at night, or just once? RUPAUL: I’ll do it in the morning. I do it in the morning. MICHELLE: To start your day. RUPAUL: Start my day. I’ll just quiet it. The voices in me head, they don’t stop. They continue on. But what happens is I’m fortifying, I’m nourishing this other consciousness. That’s the one; that’s where the magic happens. MICHELLE: When do you think this changed for you? Because now, mind you, I’ve known you since 1986, when I moved to New York City and started going to nightlifes. Might’ve been ’87, but it was those days, and we were both very different people back then. I think the first thing that you ever gave to me that started your string of consciousness or kind of evolution, evolving into this spiritual being that you are today, was when you gave me – I went through a really bad breakup, and you gave me Marianne Williamson’s A Return to Love, and you said, “This book really changed everything for me.” I read it, and I left it feeling like this book is right on. It explains not just my heart being broken by this relationship, but all of my other relationships, what they meant. And not just with men; with friends. RUPAUL: Parents, yes. MICHELLE: It explains so much. And that was my moment of “Look at Ru, getting all spiritual on me.” So I feel like that was the beginning. But what drives you to evolve? Was there something that you said “All right, enough”? RUPAUL: I’m from San Diego, born in 1960, and during the ’70s, that was that “me” generation, that explosion of metaphysical awareness and stuff. As a young kid, I was reading all of those books, like I’m OK, You’re OK and My Mother/My Self, all that. MICHELLE: I love it. RUPAUL: That explosion. So that vernacular, I’d started early on. Because I was such an outsider, I wanted to find those answers to what is going on. I remember the first time I saw Woody Allen’s Annie Hall, and his character – I think his name is Alby – he stops people on the street and goes, “You know, I’m feeling like this,” and then the other person says – and these are strangers – “You know, Alby, the problem is you think that she’s your mother, and she’s not your mother. You’ve got to get” – and that sort of dialogue, that open dialogue. I always wanted that with people. I was looking for my tribe of people who thought the way I did. I never felt like other people were onto the hoax, the matrix. I felt like the Anastasia – MICHELLE: Anesthesia. RUPAUL: Anesthesia didn’t work on me. It’s like, “Umm, I felt that. Excuse me?” But I felt everyone else was asleep. I wanted those answers, so I started reading those books, and I never stopped. So when I found A Return to Love, and then later Eckhart Tolle – actually, the real turning point for me – MICHELLE: There’s a whole bunch of time in between there. RUPAUL: There’s a whole bunch of time, but the real big turning point for me was the Joseph Campbell series with Bill Moyers on PBS. MICHELLE: Cosmos by Carl Sagan? RUPAUL: No, that was a different thing. Similar, but different. But people, if you Google “Joseph Campbell.” MICHELLE: I know what it is, and you’ve seen it a million times. RUPAUL: A million times, yeah. But that was a real turning point for me there. And it was also a time in my life – when that came on, I was about 28, something like that, when I was really willing to change and to really look at myself. Because you know Saturn returns; every 7 years are these benchmarks in a person’s life: 7, 14, 21, 28, and so on and so forth. MICHELLE: But I feel like, knowing you in some of those years, that there was still a few years of you weren’t quite ready. RUPAUL: No, no, listen, I found solace in drugs and alcohol, too, and that’s where a lot of sweet, sensitive people – the road goes – I love it in Wizard of Oz, she gets lost in the poppy field, and it is the perfect trajectory for the sweet, sensitive souls. In fact, my friend calls us “sensitivos.” If you’re a sensitivo, the road, the journey less traveled will stop off in the poppy field. MICHELLE: Yes. Yes, it’s very true. I met you in your poppy field phase. RUPAUL: Listen, I was in the poppy field for about a good – MICHELLE: You spent some time in the poppy field. RUPAUL: I smoked my first joint, I was 10 years old. MICHELLE: Shut up. RUPAUL: Ten years old. MICHELLE: Who gave it to you? RUPAUL: It was my friend Alvin who lived across the street; he stole it from his brother June Bug. Out of June Bug’s pocket. And we went up to the new houses that were being built – we called them new houses – and we sat on this power surge box, whatever, and we smoked. And we giggled, we laughed, and we were buckled over. MICHELLE: You smoked it right? You knew how to do it? RUPAUL: Oh yeah, oh yeah. MICHELLE: Weren’t you scared that Meemus [sp] Charles was going to find out? RUPAUL: No, Meemus [sp] Charles, my mother was – after the divorce, she basically went into hibernation for about two and a half years, with lithium and valium. MICHELLE: Sounds like a party. RUPAUL: Yeah, it was a party. Well, for her. But she was gone. She was gone. She reemerged a few years later, but during this time, I was running wild. And I knew how to smoke it because my mother, who smoked Tareyton cigarettes, she would say “Ru, go light my cigarette on the stove!” MICHELLE: Shut up. So this little boy is putting his little tiny face next to this gas-­‐lit stove. RUPAUL: Yeah, because she’d be in her room. She didn’t want to leave her room. MICHELLE: Mother of the year. RUPAUL: Yes, mother of the year. She didn’t want to leave her room, so she’d say “Here, Ru, go light me a cigarette.” So I’m probably six, seven. MICHELLE: Stop it. RUPAUL: Michelle, this is before children were precious. This is the ’60s. MICHELLE: Oh my God. RUPAUL: Children were not precious in the ’60s. They were just bit players, unpaid extras. MICHELLE: Oh my gosh, but even that is like… really? RUPAUL: Right. So I knew how to inhale. MICHELLE: “Make me some coffee,” okay. “Light my cigarette”? Not so good, I’m just thinking. Because I didn’t smoke my first cigarette until I was like 13 or 14. But that wasn’t pot. RUPAUL: No, that sounds right. That sounds right. That’s about right. About 14 is when people start smoking. MICHELLE: Right, but 10 years old – like, I was scared to smoke pot. I was so scared. RUPAUL: Really? MICHELLE: I was scared to death because it was a drug. My kids are so scared. RUPAUL: You’re kidding. Really? MICHELLE: So scared, and I tell them, “Look, if you’re going to do anything, that’s the only one I want you to try. If you’re going to try” – and they’re like, “No!” Scared to death. And that was me. I was scared to death, and when I finally did it, it was like all I wanted to do was eat. And being bulimic at the time, I was like “This is not going to mesh at all, because I’m going to just puke more. It’s not working.” RUPAUL: How old were you when you smoked your first joint? MICHELLE: I was probably in high school. So I had to be junior or senior. I was so scared of it, really. Because I remember being high – I was a pompom girl, and I remember being on the field, and the pompoms were sitting on my lap, and I had done the show – my shoe flew off in the middle of the show. I remember sitting, there was like one string of the pompom kept going in front of my face, and I kept waving at it, just sitting there waving at it, but staring out into the field. My girlfriend next to me was like, “What are you doing?” I’m like, “There’s a thing.” She’s like, “It’s your frigging pompom. Put it on the floor.” I’m sitting there just kind of grasping at the air, and I was like… and then all I wanted were Bavarian cream-­‐filled donuts. That’s all I wanted. RUPAUL: Oh my God, that sounds like an after school special. MICHELLE: It’s true. Starring Scott Baio and me. And my pompoms. A big fat blunt. RUPAUL: Yeah, I had no problem with all that stuff. MICHELLE: So how long did you spend in the poppy fields? RUPAUL: I was in the poppy field for 29 years. MICHELLE: What? RUPAUL: Yeah, 29 years. MICHELLE: And what made you finally go “enough is enough, Donna Summers”? With an “s.” RUPAUL: You know what, actually, 20 years into it, I knew the jig was up. I wasn’t having any more fun with it; it wasn’t interesting or exciting. But I did it because I didn’t have another way to process my feelings. That’s what this is really about. When people use drugs or any addiction, it’s because the addiction is a symptom of a much deeper problem. It’s a deeper issue. And usually that deeper issue, in my case, had to do with not being able to process my feelings. I didn’t know what to do. I had all these feelings, I didn’t know what to do. I didn’t have anybody to turn to. Luckily, probably around 21, I found my tribe of people. I found the people who thought the way I did, outside the box, thought things that were funny. Before that, my only sanctuary was television, and it was like Monty Python and PBS. MICHELLE: Amazing. I mean, if you’re going to watch something… RUPAUL: Yes. MICHELLE: You’d better watch Monty Python. RUPAUL: It was so weird to find – MICHELLE: And trippy. RUPAUL: Trippy, and it was exactly the way I think. It’s like, “Oh my God, I found my people.” And this is probably about 1971, ’72 on PBS. MICHELLE: I was still watching Sesame Street. RUPAUL: Well, you know. And that’s kind of subversive. MICHELLE: I have a problem with the fact that all these Parent League people today with their anti-­‐
watching TV – because TV was my teacher. If it weren’t for TV, I wouldn’t be half the person that I am today. And I stand by that statement. I’m a mother, and I do limit my kids’ TV-­‐watching, but they are definitely – like Madonna doesn’t have TVs in her house. TV made me who I am. I’m not kidding. RUPAUL: I agree. I feel the same way. I feel the exact same way. You know, I read books, I watched TV. I was not good in school. I was not good in school. MICHELLE: That was a focus thing, though. That was simply a focus thing. RUPAUL: Probably. MICHELLE: They’re boring as hell. Not all teachers. When you meet a good teacher, it’s amazing how it clicks. And being a mother of two, I can tell you, I know when they have a good teacher. My older daughter’s teacher, the teacher refuses to teach them because they’re too noisy, and they’re too out of control. I had to go to the principal and say “Your teacher has told my daughter ‘I’m not teaching you all today because of your behavior.’” RUPAUL: The class, or your daughter specifically? MICHELLE: The entire class. My daughter is actually very well-­‐behaved, believe it or not. She said the kids were just so loud and obnoxious that she just says “I’m not teaching you today, so do whatever you want.” RUPAUL: What a diva, wow. MICHELLE: Can you imagine? So enough parents complained, and it was like – this is a big, big problem, and I’m not going to get too serious about it, but the point is, if you have exciting teachers and teachers that teach like they do on Electric Company and Sesame Street and Between the Lions, kids are going to learn and they’re going to want to learn and they’re going to get excited about it. RUPAUL: Between the Lions? MICHELLE: That’s another PBS show, like when kids were young and they learned about reading. Reading Rainbow with LeVar Burton. Whatever it is, if you make it exciting, the kids are going to learn. And I’ve learned that all along. So for parents to get out there and say TV ruins kids’ minds is a bunch of crap. Because it doesn’t. It can be the best teacher. It’s up to you to decide. You’re not going to put them in front of frigging CSI, but there are good shows out there that you can learn from. RUPAUL: I agree. MICHELLE: So it’s fantastic. There you have it. That’s our lesson: get out of the poppy field, surround yourself with good people, and watch Between the Lions. RUPAUL: When discussing education, the new hotbed issue is understanding the way that we as individuals most efficiently process information and then fall in love with learning. Personally, I found it easier for me to remember things I hear. That’s why I’m a big proponent of audio books, and I’m a member of Audible. Audible is the world’s leading provider of audio books, with over 150,000 titles on their site. That includes some of my favorites, such as Eckhart Tolle’s A New Earth and The Power of Now. It has everything. You can even listen to your favorite audio book on any device, including your computer, tablet, Android, or iPhone. What’s also great about Audible is they have a new technology called Whispersync that lets you switch devices and save your bookmarks. You can even switch between reading your Kindle and listening to an audio book without losing your place. Audible is so friendly that even if you order a title from them and decide early on that it’s not for you, you can call them up and tell them swap it out for another book, free of charge. For a free audio book and a 30-­‐day free trial, go to audiblepodcast.com/rupaul. That’s audiblepodcast.com/rupaul. By signing up for Audible, you’ll be saving money and helping to keep this podcast free. Thanks again to Audible. All right, I see you’re putting your nails on with superglue. Is there a certain type of superglue that you use? MICHELLE: Well, I’m not putting my nails on. It lifted because my one nail – I keep nails 24/7. I started doing it when I was like – RUPAUL: You know what I’m thinking of. I’m thinking of the cover – MICHELLE: Don’t do it. RUPAUL: I’m thinking of the cover of the album – Michelle was in a group called SOUL SYSTEM, and they sang a song on the Bodyguard soundtrack, and the single for it, which is “It’s Gonna Be A Lovely Day,” is the nape of Michelle’s back with her hands at the top of her buns, and she’s got these dragon nails on. You know, like you see the sisters with the nails that curl around? MICHELLE: Yes, I used to do nail shows. Yes. RUPAUL: Wait a minute, you used to do nail shows? MICHELLE: Yes, girl. It took me 6 years to grow – those were my nails. It took me 6 years. RUPAUL: Come on – those were your nails? MICHELLE: My nails. RUPAUL: Did you take those gelatin pills or something? MICHELLE: I didn’t take nothing. You just don’t cut them. You just keep getting them filled, keep getting them filled, they keep going and going and going. I cut mine back because I can’t – that was crazy. RUPAUL: How did you wipe your bum? MICHELLE: People ask that all the time, and this is what I liken it to: you have long hair. You decide you want a pixie, and you cut it all off. Then it starts to grow back. At every length, you have to learn how to adjust to doing your hair. So every length of your nails – if you just put them on that long, you’re going to have a problem. But since they grow with you, every step, you accommodate and you learn how. I didn’t have kids back then; they were just my nails, and I wanted to have the long sister nails, so I used to go to the shows, and the sisters be like “Girl, I love your nails.” RUPAUL: Why did you do it? MICHELLE: I just wanted it – I was a singer, and I wanted it to be part of my image. I wanted to be different, because everybody out there was so commonplace. Madonna was my ultimate role model, and still is in the music industry; I just think everything she does – nowadays, not so much. But she always took risks. But she never did anything crazy like that, so I wanted to do – and I’m from the hood, so it was kind of something – RUPAUL: Wait a minute, South Plainfield, New Jersey is the hood? MICHELLE: Plainfield’s the hood, where I really lived. But I went to South Plainfield High School because I wouldn’t have survived if I went to Plainfield High School. So for me – and look, I hung out with the kids, I hung out in the black clubs, I hung out in Newark, I dated the brothers. So I was always around the sisters, and they always had the nails. To this day, wherever I go, if I’m at a store, it’s always a sister that’s like “Girl, I like those nails.” It ain’t no stupid white girl walking up and being like, “Hi, where’d you get your nails done?” RUPAUL: Right, because now you have an action length. They’re still very long – MICHELLE: But for me, it’s an active length. RUPAUL: They’re an active length, yeah. How long are those? MICHELLE: They’re probably, from tip to – probably a little over an inch from top to bottom. Complete nail, not just the tip that comes over your finger. But for me, this is a good length, and this is what I have when I’m on the show also. Normally, I’ll take the acrylics off and let my nail beds breathe, because they do get really soft. RUPAUL: For how long? MICHELLE: Couple months. But only when we’re not shooting, but the thing is – RUPAUL: I don’t think I’ve ever seen you without them. MICHELLE: Well, now we’re on tour, so I can’t – when I take pictures, I can’t have little nubbins. I look like a tree frog. RUPAUL: You could wear gloves. MICHELLE: I don’t have the cutest hands. I do wear gloves, but I cut the tips off. Just the tip. So I use Krazy Glue. I don’t mess around with no nail glue. RUPAUL: Is Krazy Glue stronger than nail glue? MICHELLE: Yes. So I know that this nail is lifting bad, and I have an issue with the nail bed, so I know that I have to lock that nail down. I’m getting them done tomorrow, so until I can get to them – I go everywhere with Krazy Glue. Everywhere. Can’t live without it. And I fear for myself when I go to places – like I’m going to Europe for three weeks in May; what’s going to happen? I’m going to have to trust somebody I don’t know, and it never ends right. RUPAUL: So you go everywhere with glue. You know there’s a 12 step program for that. MICHELLE: I don’t care. I have no need to quit my addiction to Krazy Glue. I am fine. Don’t judge me. RUPAUL: Is there another company other than Krazy Glue? Are they just the gold standard? MICHELLE: For me – and queens as well, you’ll see queens – I don’t know how they do this or why they still do it, but they Krazy Glue earrings to their ears. RUPAUL: Yes, I’ve seen that. MICHELLE: You can always tell a drag queen – that’s a good thing. If you’re wondering if anybody’s a drag queen, look at their earlobes, and they’re shredded. They’re like cauliflower earlobes from Krazy Glue. I’m not kidding. RUPAUL: Those girls, they’re wearing those really heavy, jeweled – and they’re performing, they’re showgirls, and they don’t want the earrings to fall off. MICHELLE: I feel like there’s a better way. RUPAUL: I think there’s got to be a better way. Because a lot of their ears are pierced already, but a lot of those pageant earrings are not pierced earrings. They’re usually clips. MICHELLE: No, those are too heavy. RUPAUL: They’re too heavy. MICHELLE: I have some of them that I can’t even wear as earrings. I put them in my hair and use them for hair gems. RUPAUL: I use them as the ornament for my car, actually. MICHELLE: You actually can. She’s not even exaggerating. And they’re really heavy, and they’re gorgeous, like the dragqueensforjewels.com [sp]. They’re gorgeous. So they Krazy Glue them, and they also do the nails, because just like Ru said, they’re doing all sorts of crazy antics and drag, and they’re taking their money, and they don’t want to pop in somebody’s face. RUPAUL: Well, that’s the interesting thing, because when you’re doing drag or female impersonation – I’ve never called myself a female impersonator; I just do drag. But if you want an angle, if you want to cover all the bases, you’re going to shave your brows, you’re going to get your teeth bonded, you’re going to get your nails did. You’re going to do all of the things. And actually, living here in Hollywood – that’s where we are right now – the Hollywood people are that way all the time. MICHELLE: Yeah, and I feel like I’ve been doing drag since I was a little baby because of that. Frosting my hair, lashes, nails. And for me, the nails started because I used to bite them, and I always wanted fabulous nails, so when I moved to New York City when I was 17 to go to college, I didn’t have money, but my mother said “Look, you can get a manicure and try it once.” I got silk wraps, and I was like “Oh, my nails are hard.” RUPAUL: You were addicted from then on. MICHELLE: I couldn’t stop. And they didn’t do acrylics back then. They did in Long Island, they did in Jersey; they didn’t do it in New York City. Nobody did acrylics. RUPAUL: Why not? Was it against the law? MICHELLE: No, I just don’t know – I really don’t know why, but nobody did it. All the Korean nail places, they didn’t do it. They just did silk wrap, so I used silk wraps. Even when I was in Seduction, my nails were long. They were silk wraps. RUPAUL: Do they still do silk wraps today? MICHELLE: I’m sure they can. I’m sure you can get them done, but they’ve come so far with this gel crap. Which I’m still an acrylic girl. I’m from New Jersey; I wear my nails long, square, and acrylic. Don’t try to convert me. It ain’t happening. RUPAUL: Have you done the pointy ones, the claws that people are doing? MICHELLE: I did it on Season 4. They weren’t quite stiletto; they’re called almond. They’re just a little bit more of a round stiletto, and they looked handsome and beautiful with them, but they just aren’t me. They just aren’t me. So anybody out there that’s a nail person, just straight up Krazy Glue. Don’t mess with the gel. Just go to straight up Krazy Glue. Dollar store, a dollar a thing. It’s in my rider [sp] now, and people make fun of me, because when I do the gigs, literally I have a $9 rider [sp]. I just ask for Penta Water, or alkaline water, and everybody’s like “Alcohol and deli platters,” and I’m like, “I just want my alkaline water and Krazy Glue and Neutrogena makeup remover wipes.” That’s all I want. I’m a simple drag queen. It’s really easy. And everybody’s like “What’s alkaline water? Where do I find alkaline water?” I’m like “There’s a Whole Foods or a health food store in every city.” RUPAUL: Penta, right. MICHELLE: Would you rather get me a bottle of vodka? You know what I mean? RUPAUL: Actually, they probably would. MICHELLE: It would be a lot easier. So yeah, always do Krazy Glue. And Alaska said it best; she wrote a song called “Nails,” and she said, “If you’re not wearing nails, you’re not doing drag.” And I have to tell you, just polishing your nails, kids, will make a difference. You don’t have to wear claws. You don’t have to be Alyssa Edwards. You don’t have to do all this. But… RUPAUL: Alyssa Edwards wears the – MICHELLE: She wears dragons. You know, she likes to go… I’m doing her face right now. She likes to do all that madness, and she comes for my nail game every time she sees me. RUPAUL: She loves it. MICHELLE: She’s dying to see what’s on my hands. You don’t have to do that if that’s not your character, but a coat of nail polish – Alaska says even clear; I disagree. I’d like to see some sort of a color. It just completes the fantasy for me. RUPAUL: You’re right. When I’m in drag, I do paint my nails. MICHELLE: Yes, you do. You have never worn nails. RUPAUL: But you know, I did do some dragon nails for a record cover. MICHELLE: That doesn’t count, bitch. RUPAUL: No, but we did – they were very long, too. And then I remember one summer in Atlanta, I was hanging out with this girl named Kitten – MICHELLE: Oh my God, what are you going back to, like 1924? RUPAUL: Yeah. MICHELLE: “I remember this one summer, me and Kitten wore nails. It was scandalous.” Girl, you’re reaching. You are reaching right now. RUPAUL: it’s true. But I did it that one summer, and it was fun. MICHELLE: You’re more comfortable for you just to not wear them. RUPAUL: I’ve got to tell you, even in my everyday life, I have got to have these things cut down. If I have a little bit of a nail, it drives me crazy. And I do, I get my nails down, I put my clear on, I do my thing, but I have to have those things cut down to nothing. If I have a little something, it’s all I can think about. MICHELLE: You guys, it’s the funniest when Ru comes – after she does the runway walk, she’ll come to the judges’ panel, and her nails are always painted, but she’ll always do it as she’s running out the door going on the runway, so it’s always like sticky marks and smudges. RUPAUL: It’s the last thing we do, because we’ve been back there for hours. MICHELLE: Just talking. RUPAUL: Just talking, and we have a little food, and he’ll do the hair on me, and we’ll say “Oh, this hair works well with this thing.” Six hours later, we’re ready to make the walk down the runway. MICHELLE: And then you’re like “Oh God, nails!” RUPAUL: “Nails, nails.” Natasha, who helps me out, she’s painting the nails as I’m walking out. MICHELLE: And it shows. But it doesn’t show on the camera. RUPAUL: Right, doesn’t show on camera. MICHELLE: But when he sits down, I’m like, “Girl!” Like lollipop stick stuck in them, there’s even some dead animals, I think. It’s so funny. It’s like “Ru…” But they look gorgeous on camera. RUPAUL: Now we’re going to close this out, but I want you to – what are the top three things people should know who want to start wearing acrylic nails or do the kinds of nails that you do? Are there things that you look out for when you’re in another town and you – say even a shop that does the nails. Are there no-­‐nos? They don’t have – like the restaurants have Grade A, Grade B, Grade C… MICHELLE: I’m sure they do; I just don’t know about it. For me, my saving grace is Yelp, and I swear to God, I do everything with Yelp when it comes to nails and anything of the like. Because I don’t really trust anybody with my hair, so I’d rather put it in a bun and dye it myself. So for me, for nails, you get in those predicaments where it’s an emergency and you’ve got to get them down. Yelp is always your best friend. Download the app on your phone, on your iPad, whatever you’ve got, and Yelp a place. Put in “nail art,” put “acrylic nails,” whatever you need to do, wherever you are. For me, I do acrylics because it’s the strongest, even stronger than gels for me. That’s why I do acrylics. If you want to do them long, I suggest starting them with shorter and letting them grow with you so you get used to it. For drag queens, I say go long, go big, go home. Get some Krazy Glue, slap that shit on, and do a show. But some of the queens, like Jinkx and Detox and Vicky Vox, some queens wear them all the time. So you have to know what length works for you. If you’re committing to acrylics, they’re going to screw your nail beds up, and you have to know that it’s a commitment. RUPAUL: How often do you have them done? MICHELLE: Every other week. RUPAUL: Every other week? MICHELLE: Yeah, every two weeks. RUPAUL: And how much, on average, how much does it cost? MICHELLE: I go to the hood, because those are the girls that do the acrylics the best. I go in Reseda. When it’s just a fill and I don’t do any nail art, it’s as cheap as $25 bucks. But at the most, if I go crazy, it’s like $45. But you go to esNAIL L.A., where Kelly Osbourne and all the fancy rich people go – and I love me some Kelly, but they’ve got money, let’s be honest – you’re talking $110 for a manicure with art, and I think that’s ridiculous, and not fair, and it’s bleeding these kids dry. And the work is average. It’s nothing fantastic. It’s good, but it’s not like “Oh my God,” where some of these nail artists are outrageous around the world in Spain and the Ukraine. If you look on Facebook, some nail art – and these nail artists from nail art shows – mind-­‐blowing. I couldn’t be more excited about the fact that nail art is back in vogue. Because I never left it; just I’m tacky, and that’s the way it is. But it’s back in, so if you’re going to do it, just research it. RUPAUL: I think there’s a reality show there somewhere. MICHELLE: There is. There’s been attempts; it just hasn’t been done right. RUPAUL: Well there you have it, kids. Our little beauty segment. I think those are some great tips. I’ll know what to do. I’ll go to Yelp and figure out how I’m going to get my nail art done. MICHELLE: That’s it. RUPAUL: $25 for a fill, $45 for… MICHELLE: Like the full thing with art and everything. Every nail getting done, not just like your ring fingers. I like to go big or go home, as we know. You know what I mean? RUPAUL: All right, kids. That’s the Tee. If you can’t love yourself, how in the hell you going to love somebody else? (Music lyrics) Can I get an amen? Can I get an amen? If you can’t love yourself, how in the hell you going to love somebody else? Don’t forget to subscribe on iTunes.