Glenn,
Robin asked me to give you my thoughts about the flag.
Until now, I had not noticed or had any awareness of the flag in or out of the sanctuary. So clearly to me,
the flag is not my focus in a worship experience. That being said, I would not leave if it was there unless
it's presence was displayed in a way that required me to make it a part of my worship.
The flag and its representation of our freedom and the sacrifices of others to allow us to be here in a
free society is worthy of respect and pause in sharing the knowledge of those who gave their lives for
this country.
But when I worship Jesus, I am on a level way above my country. When my soul meets the afterlife, I
have no thought that people from the USA will have a pre- check line! Too many people believe that by
believing in and following God's law will bestow material success and benefits in return. This same
thoughts process leads people to say our Country is blessed and thereforeGod's favor is given to us and
thus the flag in worship is a symbol that we are special in God's view as a Country. The next step is if we
are special, then our country is justified in our actions. Considering the history of the most dedicated
Christians with brave faith way past mine, their exit from this life does not support the religion of
material and physical success. So faith is bigger than that.
A child in the Sudan or China has a soul that is just as important to God as a child in Davidson. The
country you live in has no bearing on the value of your soul in God's eyes. So what is the point or value
of having the flag in worship to God?
Another point to consider is the separation of Church and State. Most Christians agree that the
Government should not dictate what, when, or how we worship but we are more than happy to use the
Government to help us as long as the actions benefit our particular faith which we believe is the "right"
one. So what we believe is Government in our religious affairs as long as we like it. We do not get to
choose. Accepting some government involvement while arguing against others is a door once entered,
may not be a path we would want to take. Sometimes I want to ask "what part of the word separation
do you not understand?" So in those terms symbols of the power of the State has no place in our house
of worship. It should be reserved for symbols of the power of God. In a similar way, I would not insist
that the cross of Jesus be required in a courtroom. Or the 10 commandments in a public park.
So I like it just like it is with no flag in the sanctuary. If it was in gathering or fellowship hall, that is less
of a concern for me.
Lea Burt
Hi Glenn,
Just some thoughts on the flag situation.
1. The Church is not a democracy. There should be no vote or debate. The issue of the flag is not new.
The decision should be that of our Senior Pastor. I am disappointed it has gone this route.
2. "The Administrative Council is the policy-making board of the United Methodist Church. Under
the United Methodist Book of Discipline, the Administrative Council is formed to represent the ministry
areas of the local church and make local decisions"
The flag issue is not an area of ministry, therefore the council has no business hearing arguments or
making any decisions in this matter. A congregational vote only gets the votes of those who actually
attend church, not the whole of the congregation. The silent majority will not be heard!
3. I have always thought of The Church as a Safe Sanctuary. A place where anyone, regardless of
religious affiliation, race, nationality, or citizenship could come for help. To me, the flag would make the
marginalized feel unwelcome. We already have that issue at DUMC, why make it worse?
4. The Church is Gods' house. He doesn't care about national or political affiliations. He cares only
about our relationship with Him.
5. The flag would be a distraction from worship. Who/what am I worshiping? God, the flag, both?!
It could be seen as idol worship.
6. I feel strongly that placing the American flag inside the church building at this time would be a
political statement, as the flag is symbolic of national borders.
7. In my 56 years of church-going, I have never seen any flag inside a church (except for military
funerals), let alone the sanctuary. I've only been in one synagogue, and there was not one there either.
8. As an alternative, I suggest placing the flag in the education building.
I'd rather have the preschoolers learn "The Pledge of Allegiance", (they may already do this, I honestly
do not know), than have a flag in our sanctuary which would distract from worship.
Now that this request has been made public, regardless of the decision, I anticipate you will see a
further decline in attendance, if not membership.
Don't get me wrong, I love my country. I just believe in God first. He is more than worthy of a sacred
space without borders. .
Thank you for your time and consideration.
Joyfully,
Laurie Peckham
Hello Pastor Glenn, I have been a member of this church for 6 years now. I firmly believe that putting a
flag in the sanctuary sends a very poor message. The sanctuary is a place where people of all nations,
races, and ethnicities are united by faith, not by a country. Due to the current political rift our country is
having, putting a flag up now may be even more inflammatory. A flag can be placed in the fellowship
hall or the library, but the sanctuary should be left alone.
Best wishes, Nathan McMullen
Glenn:
Seldom do I get involved in discussions of this nature but I guess I am having trouble trying to totally
understand why we are even having it. Why would we as American citizens need to form committees,
have meetings and request input on whether or not we can display the flag of our country in our own
Church? Seems to me that we live in this country and that most of us are proud of our church and our
flag. I'm happy I do not live in Iran, Irag, North Korea or China. Sometimes it takes a bit of thought to
understand the differences in many areas.
Sad that this is an issue. That's my two cents worth. Not happy that we need to go through this in the
Methodist Church.
Thanks for listening.
Steve Bynum
Dear Glenn,
As active members of DUMC for over 20 years, we feel we should weigh in on the current flag debate.
We feel that the American flag DOESN’T BELONG in our sanctuary for the following reasons:
-We enter the sanctuary at DUMC to worship God, not our country. Every thing in the sanctuary is
designed to be there to help worship God and has significance for our faith. A flag of a country has no
such significance for worship.
-As Christians we are called to be brothers and sisters in Christ and are called into a global family that
transends country borders and ethnicity.
-Placing a flag in the sanctuary dishonors both God and our country at the same time. The flag is to be
given a place of honor, but can’t because God is the ultimate authority. However, in honoring the flag,
we dishonor God in His own house.
If we have to compromise, then place it somewhere else in the building, but not the sanctuary.
As the Senior Pastor, it is our understanding that Sally gets to decide what is ulitmately in our worship
space. We hope everyone realizes how gracious she is being by allowing debate on this issue and not
just making the decision herself. She is to be admired for doing so.
Respectfully submitted,
Grey and Debbie Shutt
Rev. Glenn,
First, I am sorry this issue is causing controversy in the church. I thank you, Sally, and other clergy for
your patience and expertise as the church works through this issue.
Second, I am open to returning the US flag to the sanctuary, along with the State of NC flag, and the
Christian flag. I seem to recall all three flags being displayed at Pineville UMC when I was s child.
Having these flags in the Chapel will be fine, too...
Anne McIntosh
Glenn,
Of course we should have the American Flag in the sanctuary. The church I grew
up in had both the American flag and the Christian flag in the sanctuary.
I realize that this is a different age and many people think the the United States
is the focus of evil in the world and the flag symbolizes that.
Of course that is nonsense, as this country has done more good in the world than
any country in history!
Thanks,
James Hall
____________________________________________________________________________________
Dr. Kinken,
I understand that there is a discussion within the DUMC regarding the placing of the U.S. flag in the
sanctuary.
I will be unable to attend the meeting on the 26th of February, but wanted to place my opinion in the
public.
First, I guess we need to know what precipitated this action. Was there a sudden groundswell of
patriotism or some other reason? Do we suddenly love America more today than we did during the 8
year presidency of Barack Obama? If so, what does that say about us as a congregation?
Secondly, as a veteran I have served to protect the rights all American hold dearly. People I knew died
for this country. Saying that, I feel honoring the flag of the country can be done in ways that maintain
the separation of church and state that our founding fathers specifically included within our
constitution.
Thirdly, an alternative might be to place the U.S. flag, the State of North Carolina flag, and the flag of the
United Methodist Church in a place of honor in the gathering room of DUMC.
Politicians on both sides of the aisle had too often wrapped themselves in the flag and extoled the
virtues of Christianity. All to often they fail on both counts and we are all left diminished.
Reverend Langford reminded us today (February 12th) in her sermon that we are a divided country.
Divisions should be left at the door to the sanctuary.
It is not a simple matter to discuss because everyone has their own personal response to the great flag
of the United States.
Mine is that is a symbol of the history of a nation that has gone through growing pains and continues to
grow. America has grown to be what it is today, even though the start consisted of the ideas of white
men who were mostly slave owners.
My vote is for the alternate proposal of honoring the flag and America outside the holy sanctuary of the
Davidson United Methodist Church.
Sincerely,
Del Zogg
Thank you for the opportunity to address this initiative.
As a boy, I remember displays of both the Christian flag and the American flag in churches I attended.
This included churches of the Evangelical United Brethern, later the United Methodist and my Boy Scout
troop's sponsor, the local Lutheran Church. The United States flag was displayed prominently when I
attended the United States Air Force Academy Chapel services and certainly in the numerous military
churches I had the opportunity to attend during my six years of service in the Air Force, both at home
and abroad. I am sure that the American flag and the Christian flag were prominent in nearly every
church I have attended I'm my life. In fact, the absence of the U.S. flag at Davidson United Methodist
was noted by me in the beginning of my family's twenty-five year membership here.
Now, we members are embroiled in a conflict about the absence of the American flag at DUMC. If it has
been an issue prior to the present, I have not been privy to that information, despite serving both on the
Pastor-Parish committee, the Long Range Planning committee and two equity raising endeavors.
Likewise, no one has mentioned it to me during my recent parking lot ministry endeavor. I see several
issues which involve both my unassailable patriotism and my involvement with DUMC.
The American flag is part and parcel of my existence. I was a Boy Scout. I took the oath and served this
country in both the military and law enforcement. My Christian life is not quite as apparent but,
nevertheless, should be the driving force in all our lives. I mentioned the the lack of an American flag
was quite noticeable to me in the old sanctuary when Cindy and I first joined DUMC. That feeling of
absence diminished and disappeared over the years. Did that also diminish my love for this country and
its freedom protecting institutions? Certainly not. That freedom of worship is part and parcel of the of
the only icon which any of us should need in the sanctuary of our Church, which is the Cross upon which
our Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, died. Implicit in that symbol are the freedoms we enjoy in this country
and that is sufficient. Certainly, in our sanctuary, which I believe is the entire church grounds, the
inclusion of other symbols other than the Cross, diminish Its prominence. Indeed, the introduction of
patriotic symbols, such as the flag, makes any attempt a trite statement which diminishes the American
symbol and its meaning. It is out of place In our Church, but not in our hearts and psyche. We know the
freedom that we enjoy in worship is backed up by those values we hold dear. That should be patriotic
enough.
I should address the display of the flag during Scouting events. Indeed, Scouts need an American flag
during their meetings. Even a sectarian meeting using the sanctuary involving Scouts, might need a flag.
This is not an endorsement for permanent display of the American flag anywhere on church grounds.
Thank you for permitting church members input on this important topic.
Keith Farmer
Glenn,
If I had a vote, I would not vote for putting the Flag in the Sanctuary.
I would not be offended by that, but I feel The Cross should be the centerpiece
of our faith. I would like to consider myself loyal and respectful of the Stars and Stripes as any patriot.
But our church is Universal.
Maybe there is somewhere else in the church that the flag can be placed.
Thank You
Roger Brown
Glen,
Jayne and I are very much in favor of displaying our country's flag in the sanctuary. We have previously
been members of other churches which have all been proud to show our national symbol.
Ed Braxton
Glenn,
If you will remember, I first contacted you on June 23 last year via email with the question, "Why has
our church removed the American Flag from the sanctuary? The question had nothing to do with
politics, and the presidential election was still a long way off. Our great flag has nothing to do with
politics! It represents the Greatest Country on our planet. God led us to this place and gave us the
ability to do great good for all mankind. There is no place or country on earth that can match our
ingenuity, and the determination of the American People to accomplish the goals we set for ourselves.
Does anyone, for one moment; think they would have the freedom in another country to worship the
way that we do here in America? Do you think you can criticize that country like you do here? Do you
think you can belittle the leadership of that country without some type of reprisal? Ours is the greatest
country of all, and we need to show our pride any time we can. Yes, even in church where God reins
above all.
In a couple of months, I will be 78 years old and during that time, I have lived through WWII, The Korean
Conflict, Viet Nam War, the two Great Desert Wars along with many smaller conflicts in between. My
parents raised me to believe that I owed a debt to my country for the privilege of being born in
America. I try to repay that debt every day by being a good citizen.. Yes, I did serve my country from
1962 to 1965 and I can honestly say I am very proud of my service. Some people would say their debt to
our country ended there. but a good American is always ready to stand up for freedom and the
American Way.
WE SHOULD ALL BE THANKFUL TO ALMIGHTY GOD FOR THE PRIVILEGE OF BEING BORN FREE, IN THE
UNITED STATES, AND UNDER THE AMERICAN FLAG! LET'S BRING BACK THE FLAG TO THE SANCTUARY.
Respectfully submitted,
John Davis
Dear Glenn,
I am writing to strongly oppose the installation of a US flag in our sanctuary.
The word sanctuary comes from the Latin word sanctus, which means "holy." Our sanctuary is a holy
place, meant only for worship of the Lord. The centerpiece of our sanctuary is the magnificent stainedglass window with Jesus on the Cross. He is the focus of our worship, and we sing about this often. "Turn
your eyes upon Jesus, look full in His wonderful face. And the things of this earth will grow strangely
dim, in the light of His glory and grace."
The flag is a thing of this earth, a secular symbol. It has its own very important place in our society,
flying atop government buildings, being displayed in classrooms and public events, being flown proudly
by individual citizens, etc. It is also a symbol of exclusivity, a symbol of America. This is certainly not a
negative-on the contrary, our flag is something that we as Americans can and should take pride in.
However, we must remember that the US flag represents all Americans, not only our Christian brothers
and sisters, but our brothers and sisters of different faiths, and indeed, even our brothers and sisters of
no religious faith at all.
The first amendment of the constitution separates our government, symbolized by our flag, from
religious institutions. Jesus himself declared that we should "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and
unto God what is God's." As Methodists, we enter into a baptismal covenant, which we re-affirm when
we join the church, which states that the church is open to people of all ages, NATIONS and RACES. Our
church welcomes everyone-citizen or foreigner, resident or refugee. Displaying a US flag in a sanctuary,
a holy place, sends a message, however unintended, of exclusivity, not inclusiveness.
Respectfully,
Donna McMullen
Although I did not wear the uniform, my ancestors (lineal and collateral) have fought, bled and died in
service to our great country as far back as the American Revolution- our war for independence. You
could call me old school but I consider myself patriotic with a deep respect to our flag. In my opinion,
the American flag and religious freedom are inextricably linked. This country was founded on Judeo
Christian beliefs and offered freedom from religious persecution in the "old" country. Some people use
the phrase "separation of church and state" but the interpretation continues to be debatable and
opinions on what it does mean will perhaps always vary. My thoughts are that any government, federal
or state, will not tell the people how to worship but the people will make that decision of their own free
will. The separation is not keeping religion out of the government but in keeping government out of
religion.
America is the city on a hill, a beacon of hope for many here at home and around the world. Since
World War 1, we fight evil thousands of miles away (and sadly here at home) to liberate not to
dominate. And the flag has always been there wherever we go, flying proudly as a symbol of hope and
inspiration.
I fully support the decision to display the American flag in our sanctuary. Thank you for giving me the
opportunity for my voice to be heard.
Dwight Little