Appendix #2
Compiled Public Consultation Information
(Transcripts, Survey Sheet Feedback)
French Milieu Public Forum: Summary Report
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Brandon School Division
Public Consultation #1
New Era, April 14, 2009
New Era Transcript
George Buri
Good Evening. Welcome to the first of our public Consultations on French Milieu. My name is George
Buri . I am the Chairman of the Board and would like to introduce the other Trustees to you: Bea
Jolly, Jim Murray, Vice Chair Ramona Coey, Peter Bartlette, Marty Snelling, Brian Mayes and Doug
Karnes. Dr. Ross sends her regrets as she can’t be with us this evening. We are also joined by our
Senior Administration tonight. It is great to see so many of you out here this is a really good to see a
full hall. We have been plunged into darkness at the front here but I am assured we will have the
lights turned on shortly. That just makes it harder for me to see my notes that’s all.
Thank-you for being here to listen and share your thoughts with us. I think this is a really important
process. That is what democracy is all about. It is getting your views out and that is what we are hear
for to listen to your views and opinions and get your questions. I’ll just give you a very brief
overview, very very brief. It’s basically all in your package:
On October 1, 2007 the Education Committee of the Board of Trustees requested that the French
Immersion program be scheduled for a full program review. Over the year following this request the
expectations and content of the review were explored at both the Committee and Board level. Details
of the work are outlined in the information package you received this evening. The outcome of the
program review was to establish an immersion only milieu school which would provide students
with a full and rich linguistic and cultural environment. The final recommendation was a research
based decision which identified the milieu environment as favouring the acquisition of a high degree
of proficiency in second language learning.
The second part this, the facility and timing opportunities: On October 9, 2008 the Facilities and
Transportation Committee of the Board of Trustees began discussions regarding the Division wide
Facilities Review; French Immersion facility options; the Community consultation process and how
these three issues were interrelated with consideration being given to student enrolment, facility
practical capacities, historical catchment boundaries, program characteristics, transportation
concerns, Administration recommendations, community issues and correspondence and student
mobility rates. The Board of Trustees subsequently approved 6 French Immersion facilities options
in the first steps to a Division-wide facilities review. These options are outlined in the info package
you have received and Mr. Karnes will be addressing them with you in more detail tonight. We are
here to listen to you. We are here to see what you have to say. There is a lot of information here and
there is a form to fill out at the end. At the end of the process Vice-Chairperson Ramona Coey will do
the closing remarks. Thank-you very much. I would like to turn this over to Mr. Karnes now.
Doug Karnes
Good evening everybody. I am just going to go through the power point and the handout that you
received tonight. As you see on the screen there motion 148/2008 September 22, 2008 as
recommended by the Education Committee:
“That the current Brandon School Division French Immersion K-8 program be developed into a
French milieu program to include an acculturation which would provide students with a full and rich
linguistic and cultural environment.”
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Then there was Motion 12/2009 on January 12, 2009 as recommended by the Facilities and
Transportation Committee:
“That the following options be presented for public consultation regarding the institution of a French
Milieu School in the Division:
Option 1 – Move Grade 7 and 8 French Immersion students to Neelin High School; New Era School
becomes a K-6 School; French Immersion programming and English programming remain at New
Era School but are physically separated with separate administrations, separate public address
systems, separate assemblies and separate playground time.
Option 2 – Neelin High School becomes K-12 French Immersion Milieu School therefore reducing one
English track high school. Senior Years Lifeskills students to remain at Neelin. New Era becomes a K8 school with approximately 175 students – Earl Oxford reduction of 9 grade 7 and 8 students and
King George reduction of 24 grade 7 and 8 students; establish Day Care in the lower level, transfer
storage/archives to lower level and special divisions programs.
Option 3 - New Era becomes French Milieu School only; transfer English students to Betty Gibson,
Earl Oxford and King George.
Option 4 – Island Lakes K-8 new school approximately 300 students; George Fitton reduction 114,
Harris reduction 62, Riverheights reduction 16. George Fitton K-8 French Milieu school
approximately 400 students; new gym and interior renovations. Harrison K-8 schools; from George
Fitton excluding Lifeskills 165 students; Harrison 6-8 less Lifeskills 131. (For information Island
Lake is situated about 9th and Maryland which is near the Riverview Curling Club).
Option 5 – A French Centre at École New Era School which will be physically separated from the
English programming with separate administrations, separate public address systems, separate
assemblies and separate playground time with no other changes to be made.
Option 6 - Ask the Public Schools Finance Board to build a new school for French Milieu students
only.”
And then Motion 66/2009 on March 23-09 brought forward at Regular Board Meeting by Trustee
Ross
“That the Board undertake a thorough and in depth consultation with all interested stakeholders for
the purpose of determining:
a) whether there is broad based support for the implementation of a French Milieu
Program;
b) the manner of implementation of a French Milieu Program;
c) the timing of implementation of a French Milieu Program;
d) the location for implementation of a French Milieu Program.”
So that is what we are hear for tonight - to listen to you and I would ask Dr. Michaels to moderate the
next portion of it.
Dr. Michaels
Good Evening Ladies and Gentlemen and thank-you very much for being here. The agenda this
evening provides for approximately an hour and a half of public feedback and that feedback is in
consultation to the Board of Trustees regarding the forthcoming decisions to be made. This evening
it is requested that you abide by the following guidelines with respect to public input. When you
proceed to the microphone please identify yourself and speak directly into the microphone
otherwise people cannot hear you. Each speaker has up to 10 minutes. You will be advised when
you have used 7 minutes of those 10 minutes by Sheri Bailey who will hold up a Lucky 7. If you have
questions to the Board of School Trustees, please identify your questions clearly. These will be noted
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and responses will be provided in a public bulletin prepared for the early part of May. Because of the
time requirement, it is impossible to answer all the individual questions that people may have but we
want to make sure that you get the information that you request. Each speaker will speak once and
then once we have finished with everyone speaking once then anyone who wants to speak a 2nd or
3rd time you are very welcome to do that. The feedback form is the beige coloured form you have
received with package of information. Please fill out at the end of the evening or very near the end of
the evening hand it in at the door with Sheri Bailey that would be very much appreciated. So
following those guidelines for a civil consultation process I would like to invite people to the
microphones please. Microphones 1, 2 and 3.
Speakers
Laurena (Ena) Leskiw
I appear before you this evening as an advocate for little children. I beg you to continue the English
track program at New Era School. You must not force these little children to travel the long distances
crossing heavy traffic areas to Betty Gibson or King George School when New Era is within easy
walking distance of their home. Many of these core area children have 3 strikes against them before
they even get to school at 9 AM. Their school is often the only safe, secure and stable place in their
lives.
I taught 10 of my 27 years in Brandon School Division in what you call core area schools. I finished
my career as the resource teacher for 7 years at Linden Lanes School where the parents were mainly
middle and upper income families. There is a vast difference in many of the family lifestyles of these
2 areas. Thus, I do know first hand the many difficulties and challenges that these little people have in
the core areas. Because of the greater availability of rental properties in this area we also have the
greatest number of one parent families, welfare families and lower income parents. You do not find 2
or 3 cars sitting at their front door to drive their offspring to school, to Y, to baseball or to hockey.
Yes, the community lifestyle and the neighbourhood school are very, very important to them for their
daily lives. For example, I remember so well that one of my grade 4 students was having some
difficulty with math and I offered to help her after school if she would remain for a while.
She replied, “But, Mrs. Leskiw, my mom says I have to walk my grade 3 brother and his friend home
from school every day. If we don’t watch them all the time they stop at the Auto Body Repair Shop
and sniff gas from the cars parked there. We don’t want them doing that bad thing!”
Had you ever thought of that happening to your child? What a responsibility/load for a little 10 year
old girl! We did remedy the cause by having the 2 boys play math games in the room while “Mary”
and I worked on the long division algorithm.
I served 20 years on Mathematics Committees for the Department of Education overseeing all math
related areas, new curricula, the Metric System, inservicing teachers all over the province and
insuring/advocating that all programs met the needs of rural students/schools, ie, (beyond the
Winnipeg perimeter). With the province wide testing at Grades 3, 6, 9 and 12, I was always proud of
the educational system of Brandon Schools. I also believed that the students that had gone through
the Ecole New Era Dual Track French programs did very well on those tests and that they went on to
great careers after graduating. Indeed, they had obtained a good education!
Last night Dick McIntyre, a retired well known Vincent Massey high school Math teacher, phoned to
say he regretted he was unable to attend this evening but he wanted me to advise the Board of the
importance of all students being fluent in spoken and written English in order to be successful with
mathematics. Dick also stressed the fact that a good command of the English language is also
necessary in university where English is the main language of instruction.
• Many of these little ones (and yes, even the bigger ones) are recipients of the Coats for Kids
programs. How will they survive the extra miles of walking to school in the long frigid winters?
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• Or- What happens when they sleep in and miss the bus? Teachers presently welcome them
whatever time they show up. We know their family situations and are glad they made it to school
safely regardless of time.
•
What happens to those who visit the Helping Hands Soup Kitchen for their lunches?
• Teachers know that many of these little ones entering school lack proficiency in their own
language. Yet, we expect them to immediately pick up another language even English and French
without difficulties. Is it any wonder our primary class profiles are eschewed to the left for our
English track students? The learning curve is extremely steep the first few years!
Also, as a math teacher I look at the 5 1/2 hours of daily instructional time. We subtract the 90
minutes of required English programming. This leaves 4 hours of French instruction. But, that still
leaves 18 1/2 hours each day for the parents to communicate in French. Therefore, do you really
believe that the short 15 minute recesses are really so harmful to these French students?
• Do we need French night school for parents to enable them to communicate in French with their
kids at home during the other many hours of the day?
• With the present economic stresses and our new fire hall and police station can the tax payer
afford to contribute more school taxes for this milieu school?
•
Is Brandon’s population large enough to make it a successful, economic adventure?
•
Can we afford to have 2 administrations and 2 support staffs in each school?
•
Would that money be better spent in re-instating the swimming program for Brandon students?
Swimming is really one of life’s greatest skills! Yes, right into the senior years! But, many parents can
not afford the swim program costs nor the transportation to these facilities.
Some say the Milieu Immersion School is elitist and a status symbol for parents. I can not comment
on this as I do not know enough about it. However, I do support the learning of different languages. I
also know that English grammar and spelling are very important for adulthood. Even the Microsoft
Spell Check has you select the correct spelling from 3 or 4 choices.
• The Canadian multi-cultural society is all around us. Will these milieu students be denied the
advantages of cultural exposure as they mature into adulthood? It is important for them to be
cognizant of the various cultures we have in Canada alone. I truly believe the blending of all races in
schools is a wonderful learning experience for teachers, pupils and parents.
• Would the mixing of the 2 tracks at recess have the advantage of encouraging more English
students to transfer to the French programs?
• What happens to the very successful newly implemented parent-child reading program at New
Era where parents become involved with their child’s reading program at school? This program goes
a long way to familiarize the parent with the school and makes the parent-school connection more
comfortable.
•
What happens to this program if kids are moved?
• Transportation is a problem. How will these parents get to this program or to parent interviews
with no transportation? Their lives are too complicated and stressed already. Please do not add to
their frustration and stress level.
• How is the staff dealing with all these possibilities of move and uncertainties of job security?
With all the added stresses in teaching I am sure you do not want to continue to add to their loads.
As trustees you were elected to provide the best education for all Brandon’s 7400 students. You must
not initiate new programs for one group that will be to the detriment of any other group of students.
Thus, in closing, I beg you to consider all the points I have presented here tonight.
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Please do not force these little New Era students to be moved to another school.
Katherine Giesbrecht
I am a Canadian. I am a parent of a Canadian. I believe in equality - that the French speaking
students and the English speaking students should be treated equally. I read we’re going displace
100, 200 or 300 English students because our French students are more important. I see that English
student will lose his friend because he went to another school and now he has to walk and extra 20
minutes to walk to school and he is going to be saying “Stupid French, stupid French, stupid French”
and to me I see it breaking up Canada. Canada should be bilingual and have both students. The
English students should not be displaced to accommodate any French students. There has to be
another alternative. Thank-you.
Howard Hoy
I would like to thank the Brandon School Division Trustees for providing the Citizens of Brandon this
opportunity to come before you to express our view and opinions regarding your proposal to
develop a French Milieu school in the Brandon School Division. Over the past months I have followed
the Board’s proposal for the establishment of a French Milieu school with interest and with some
concern. My name is Howard Hoy and this evening I am hear to express some of my views about the
process you as a Board have followed as you discuss the development of a French Milieu School.
As you know I am a retired teacher and I taught in the Brandon School Division for most of my career.
As you also know I sat on the Board of Trustees during the last term. When one enters your Board
Room one can see the Code of Ethics displayed on the Board Room Wall. This Code of Ethics makes 8
statements and one of the statements says and I quote:
“Refrain from using the position of Trustee for personal gain or the pursuit of personal interest and
avoid any situation(s) which might suggest a conflict of interest or the appearance of impropriety in
the performance of responsibilities as a trustee.”
It is important to note the words “avoid any situations which might suggest a conflict of interest”.
What exactly is a conflict of interest? I must confess as a Board member I personally found the
concept of a conflict of interest, to say the least, most confusing. To remind myself I googled the
question “What is a conflict of interest?” on my computer and the first site that popped up had the
following definition:
A conflict of interest is a situation in which a public official’s decisions are influenced by the official’s
personal interest;
A conflict of interest is a situation in which someone in a position of trust has competing professional
or personal interests;
A conflict of interest is any relationship that is or appears to be not in the best interest to the
organization. It would prejudice the individual’s ability to perform his or her duties and
responsibilities objectively; and lastly
A conflict of interest occurs when there is a conflict between the private interests and public
obligations of a person in an official position.
Chris McDonald in the Journal of Business Ethics states:
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“We can define a conflict of interest as a situation in which a person has a private or personal interest
sufficient to appear to influence the objective exercise of his/her official duties as say a public official,
employee, or professional”.
Once again it is important to note the words “appear to influence the objective exercise of his/her
official duties.”
During my term of office, Trustees who sat on the Board were from time to time confronted with
having a conflict of interest when debating at the Board Table. At those times Trustees often declared
their conflict of interest and excused themselves from the debate. At times during my term as a
Trustee when I believe I found myself in a conflict of interest I acknowledged my conflict and
withdrew from the discussion. On occasion I was reminded by members of the Board that there was
a potential for conflict of interest and, after careful consideration of my fellow Trustees reasoning, I
withdrew myself from the debate. On some issues, when I believed there was no conflict, I did not
declare a conflict of interest, even though some members of the Board had suggested perhaps I
should.
During my term of office as a school trustee when the possibility of a conflict of interest was unclear
the Board met with its solicitors on a number of occasions to obtain their legal opinion to determine
if there would be a conflict of interest during certain debates and discussions. There were also times
when I personally was uncertain as to whether I was in a conflict of interest. At those times I met
with the division solicitor to seek clarification and direction. In many of these instances the word
that kept coming out was the word “perceived”. As I said the concept of conflict of interest is
confusing. However, if I remember correctly, it was the opinion of the Division’s solicitors that it
was important that the perception be considered when making a decision as to whether one should
declare a conflict of interest or not. It was also the opinion of the Division's solicitors that as
Trustees we should always err on the side of perception and declare a conflict of interest when we
weren’t certain if there was one or not. As Trustees it was suggested that we remember that one’s
conflict of interest may not be a real but if it has the potential of being perceived as being real by
members of the public than one should declare oneself to be in conflict and withdraw from the
debate. During the Board's discussions about the formation of the French Milieu School, the
potential of a conflict of interest has arisen. One of the members of the Board of Trustees, Mrs. Coey,
has children who are enrolled in the French Immersion program at New Era school. When attending
school board meetings and watching broadcasts of your meetings on Channel 12, it is evident that
Mrs. Coey is a strong advocate for the formation of a French Milieu school. I commend you for your
passion and your support of this concept. I would like to suggest however that there is the potential
that Mrs. Coey may be in a conflict of interest when discussing the development of a French Milieu
school. By having children who are presently enrolled in the French Immersion program and who, I
assume, will enrol in the French Milieu school if it is established, one must look at the perception of
there being a conflict when she is discussing and when she is voting on matters dealing with a French
Milieu program. This perception is not mine alone, over the past number of months the question
about the potential of Mrs. Coey being in a conflict of interest has arisen in Letters to the Editor in
the Brandon Sun. When I read the comments and discussions on the web site ebrandon.ca, the
potential of Mrs. Coey being in a conflict of interest is being questioned and discussed by members
of our community. If you have not yet done so I would recommend that members this Board visit
the web site to read the views of what many of the members of our community are in regards to the
French Milieu school. I am not here to personally attack Mrs. Coey. I am here however to attempt to
make certain that the process this Board follows when discussing a French Milieu school is not
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Brandon School Division
clouded with misunderstandings and misconceptions. I only wish to have the potential of their
being a conflict of interest reviewed so that the Citizens of Brandon can be confident that no conflict
exists. I am not here this evening to judge Mrs. Coey, if Mrs. Coey has a conflict of interest with the
French Milieu school being discussed. I am a however here to ask the Board this, like the Board
before you contact the Division solicitors to discuss the potential of their being a conflict. My
question is: Does having children presently enrolled in the French Immersion program and who may
enroll in the French Milieu school constitute a conflict of interest for Mrs. Coey? If it is the opinion of
your solicitors that there is no conflict of interest the question that many members of our community
have will be answered. If it is the opinion of your solicitors that there is a conflict of interest then
according to The Public Schools Act Mrs. Coey should declare the conflict of interest, withdraw
from any meetings in which there are discussions about the French Milieu school without voting
or participating in the discussions and refrain from attempting to influence the matter. To
make certain that your solicitors’ legal obligation is understood by all, I would also ask that their
decisions and reasoning behind their decision been made public in a visible and transparent
manner so that everyone in our community understands the Board’s position on conflict of
interest as it relates to the French Milieu school. To not make the solicitors’ opinion and the
reasoning behind their opinion public, will only add to the public's confusion that exists at this
time. Once again thank you for giving me the opportunity to express my views.
Joanne Villienuve
Spoke in French first.
Good evening. My name is Joanne Villienuve, the reason I am here this evening is to hopefully
convince people that it is possible to grow up and go to school in a French environment and be
completely bilingual. We live in a bilingual country. We have two official languages. In Europe they
do not speak one or two languages, they speak more. I was just in Mexico, the Mexican people I met
did not just speak Mexican or Spanish Mexican. The spoke Mayan; they spoke English; they spoke
German; they spoke French and some Italian. So what does that make us look like? Unlike like the
previous speaker I commend Ms. Coey for having brought this up because I want the best education
for my two children. They don't care where they go to school, they just want to be able to speak
French. And guess what, the minute they leave the school they are going to get plenty of English in
their ears. The whole concept of immersion is just that, immerse them in French during the day. It is
their other official language. We should be proud to be Canadian and we should be proud to have
this opportunity. I know we are in the middle of the prairies and I am not from here so perhaps I
don’t understand the thinking, but I think it is narrow minded that so many people are scared of le
Milieu. It makes a lot of sense. If you are an Anglophone and you don’t have much French guess what
your kids will get the best French Immersion education because all day they will be speaking French;
they will be addressed in French. Quality vs. all these other concerns. Quality of education, not just
for the Francophone kids, no just for the immersion kids. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want to
dismiss the other problems that are here. But this school since my oldest child has been here, I have
seen a lot of socio-economic problems on one side and the school and not so many on the other side
of the school. The principal has had to deal with so many issues that are not related because it is two
different balls of wax. Wherever this Milieu school goes is irrelevant to me. I don’t care if I have to
drive to the opposite side of town. I mean, I live six blocks away. We can walk right now, but I could
care less. I think the Division needs to make that decision. Leaving it up to the public is just opening
up a can of worms that you'll never be able to resolve and make everybody happy. I think a firm
stand on your part needs to support the Milieu idea which is the best way to teach immersion
because the way we were going about it now from what I understand is the least effective way. I can
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tell that with my Grade three child who doesn’t understand half of the things that I say to him in
French.
So, I would also like you to think about the opportunities for these kids’ future. I not only write for
the Brandon Sun, so evidently my French education did not harm me. I am fluent in English, I’m
fluent in French. I am a published translator and writer in both languages. That’s the path I chose. I
also teach French and some of my students are here tonight. Thank-you. I have also taught at
Brandon University and some of those kids in my class have gone through French Immersion. And
guess what? They could not speak French that well. They had gone all the way through. I don’t want
that for my kids. I want something better. I want just as good things for the families that decide to
stay at the English track. But whether it is at this school or not it is irrelevant.
What we need to focus on is that people who chose to send their kids for French Immersion get the
best French Immersion. I was very fortunate I lived in a community where both French and English
were available and my family and I took advantage of that. I studied at university in both languages.
This has helped me. I have friends across the country because I can speak both languages. I have had
all kinds of very interesting jobs because I can speak and write both languages. I want my children to
at least have those opportunities whether they chose to take them or not. Let’s not kid ourselves, not
every child who goes to French Immersion is going to stay in Brandon. If they go to Toronto, Ottawa,
Montreal, Vancouver, Paris, Washington D.C., wherever. French will always be there to help them
whether they use it or not because it develops something in their brains that a language and a second
language can only do. I have taught military guides who have learned English grammar because I
was teaching them French grammar. So don’t worry about the English side of things. They are going
to learn it. They learn it the minute the walk outside that door at 3:30. The minute they go to the
corner store. To the Sportsplex. To their friends and their neighborhood. We need to focus on the
9:00 to 3:30 and bring the best French Immersion to the City. I think we deserve it. I think our
children deserve it. And yes, please whatever you need to do for the English track, please do it as
well. This whole fighting about schools and whatnot - Let’s think about the kids and what’s best for
them. Thank-you very much.
Kevin Klassen
My name is Kevin Klassen and had my son is in the English program at New Era. I would like to start
by thanking the Board members for taking the time to hear the concerns of parents and community
regarding the establishment of a Milieu school. I've worked at the Brandon University for nearly ten
years now and I've seen the many difficulties that come with serving on committees and especially
when they're sitting in the public eye.
I appreciate just how important it is that your decisions be based on research by well informed
individuals. I have too often seen the damage that comes from decisions that were improperly
researched. I would like to relay my appreciation to the Board that has made tough decisions based
on the needs of students even when those decisions were unpopular. Like the current budget that has
been passed. In my experience these are far better met by sound decisions then by popular ones.
Given the importance of sound decisions, the one to establish a Milieu school concerns me greatly. It
concerns me because the decision was made without any consideration for the costs of
implementing one. I know this because my wife gave a presentation to the Board concerning the cost
of relocating the English students of New Era. Her presentation was in October after the September
22nd decision had already been made. Before that presentation was given, we were clearly told the
Board was not yet ready to discuss possible locations and that our concerns would be taken into
consideration later. I must also emphasize that this was after the decision had already been made to
establish a Milieu school. Similarly, the New Era Parent Council was given a presentation on the
Milieu decision last October by Mr. Buri. And we were again told then no consideration of New Era
as a possible site had been made yet at that point. In fact I've been told this enough times since that
there's no doubt the decision to establish a Milieu School was made without consideration of those
costs. I feel that I must now say it very bluntly that the Board must reconsider its decision to
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establish a Milieu school on not only the basis of the benefits, but of all the real costs as well. The
Board must not hold on to the current decision based on allusion that it has been a well informed and
researched decision. I ask what kind of an informed and research decision does not include the costs
of implementing that decision?
Now when the Board originally considered establishing a Milieu school, they separated the process
out for fear of the politics that would come up. Just today those fears have been shown to be all too
well founded. Today, for the first time the public is able to see the projected financial costs of the six
Milieu proposals. That the timing can be dismissed as a coincidence and not politics, the contents
remove much doubt. Are we honestly expected to believe that relocating 70 French Immersion
Grade 7 and 8 students to Neelin will cost over $2 million? And yet relocating twice as many K-6
English students to Betty Gibson, Earl Oxford and King George will cost less than $20,000. Who
would have guessed it would be a hundred times more expensive to relocate half as many French
Immersion students. That such a blatant ploy would be released on such short notice before the
consultation only adds insult to injury. I have only had a very short time to look at this but Option 1
clearly has a $700,000 new gym here at New Era if the 7 and 8’s are moved out. But if the English
students are moved out we don’t spend that $700,000 on a new gym. The difference of 60 students
and it makes a $700,000 difference on the price tag? That just seems very weird!
I would not ask that the Board change its direction from public pressure alone. I’ve witnessed that
that is a very bad way for the decision process to be made. What I must advise though is that the
Board please consider the reasons behind people's concerns. I’m sure you'll be hearing many
questions that come in the form of “Has the Board thought of this cost or that cost?” Regarding the
establishment of the Milieu school the Board has to answer no to virtually all these queries. Only
after already deciding to establish a Milieu school has the Board given consideration to those costs. I
must emphasize my belief that the Board’s concern should not be public opinion. It should be
concerned that the public has very good reasons to be upset about how this decision came about. I
feel it is necessary to specifically illustrate the problems that come from failure to consider these
costs. The option with the least change is to establish a Milieu school here in New Era with a
separate administration and no moving of students. Even this most basic option though leaves the
question as to what is best for students. Extra teachers and E.A.’s? Or just a second administration
here at New Era? Is it not clear that it is impossible to judge the value of establishing a Milieu school
without considering the costs? The option with the highest cost, contrary to this, is removing all the
English students here from New Era. These costs go far beyond financial and even beyond the
academic costs.
New Era’s English program serves the area of Brandon with the lowest socioeconomic index. The
Caucasian students in my son’s class are the minority. More than one of his classmates is learning to
speak English as their second language in his classroom. I know that ethnic, social and economic
considerations were not considered as part of the decision to establish a Milieu School, but that’s not
good enough. Ethnic, social and economic factors must be taken into consideration. Ignoring those
costs still results in people being disadvantaged on social, ethnic and economic basis. New Era’s
English program has some of the Division’s lowest EDI scores and the French Immersion program
has the highest. It is obvious that benefiting the students with the least needs at the cost of those
with the greatest is unacceptable. The Board’s original decision did not consider this. The CSPI
program here at New Era cannot keep up with the demand for winter clothes it provides for the
families who need them. Making Kindergarten students who have trouble getting winter clothing
walk further to school is a huge cost. Again, the Board’s original decision did not consider this. Last
September Helping Hands served 200 lunches to New Era students. That's just one month! They
don’t have numbers from other schools because it is just too far to walk there. Again I must repeat
that the Board’s original decision did not consider this cost. This is just a small sampling of the cost
of operation for the students from the English program at New Era. I could go way over my time to
list more.
What I do believe is that it the Board who is best suited to study and evaluate all these costs. I
simply fear that because of the process in place that will not do so. I must insist that these costs be
considered and have the question asked “Are the benefits worth the costs?” Unless the Board is
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willing to reconsider its original decision to establish a Milieu school with full consideration of the
real costs involved, it will not only face an angry public but a public that is angry with good reason. I
would ask each member of the Board to please look at the six options and consider are the costs
really worth the benefits that a Milieu school can provide? Thank-you.
Dwayne Durand
Mr. Chairman, Madam Co-Chair and Members of the Board of Trustees, my name is Dwayne Durand
and I thank you for the opportunity to speak here tonight. As you can tell from my disorganized
notes I did not come prepared to speak but some of the previous speakers led to a bit of frustration
so I will add comments after all. I will start with a bit of history. We have been in Brandon for five
years now. Our children, three boys, attended a francophone school division prior to moving to
Brandon. One of our concerns about the Brandon School Division is that there would not be an
adequate French program where our kids would be considered functionally bilingual - mastering the
language. And by mastering the language - not just being able to read and write, but being confident
in speaking in it in public in any form. So when we moved to Brandon our oldest son entered Grade 6
at New Era. After the first week of attending New Era, I thought his comments coming home would
be how weak the French programming was compared to what he was used to. In reality, his first
comment was about how weak the English programming was. So when people talk about the cost of
an education, the way I see it, the only thing more expensive than a real good education, is a real poor
one. We are headed that path right now! We speak a lot about the inadequacy of the core area. How
we can’t provide. How we can’t give adequate class time. How the school is not providing what it
needs to in the way of education and safety. Are we talking about things that the Brandon School
Division needs to correct here? Absolutely! But not under this motion! That's the reality that you
need to face, aside from tonight’s motion. So the question I would have for those who are challenging
whether or not the French Milieu would improve programming and your rebuttal is that there is too
many other problems - Well if you could improve those problems wouldn’t you? If you could
strengthen the core area schools wouldn’t you? If you could strength the entire programming of the
Brandon School Division would you not consider it? We are not just talking about New Era here.
Neelin is not a strong immersion program as it stands right now either. And this is the pipeline
school that feeds Neelin - A high school where you're looking to graduate those bilingual children; or
at least adequately comfortable in both languages. Madam Villeneuve is the only one who has really
spoke of the programming and its benefits here tonight. Everybody else has worried about cost. In
reality yes our instruction time is too short in our schools for the cost. That’s why programming
needs to be accelerated, because we are wasting time. The gentleman who challenged the conflict of
interest –its funny that he used advocate and conflict in the same presentation, because advocates, is
that not what we need? Is that not what you were elected to be? Make these decisions based on
research as the gentleman said. The cost comes after. First find out what you are going to do, then
pay for it. There were other comments about can we afford this or can we afford that. I am not sure
why swimming came into that. But the question I have is “Can we afford not too?” The comments
about the Microsoft spell check as a way to get on with the French language - if anyone has used it
that knows any French at all, you'll know that it does not translate properly. So that was a very poor
analogy. So when you are considering the changes obviously you need to consider the impact. So
therefore the way I see it, if you consider all the factors required to meet the critical to quality factors
in offering French Milieu with little disruption then obviously Options 3, 5 and 6 are the only three
that need to be considered further because obviously the other three cause disruption. And if we are
allowed to speak by proxy, which one did speaking for another teacher, and another gentlemen
mentioned comments on e-brandon, so let me speak by proxy for the over 7,000 Immersion parents
of the province of Manitoba and the 3,500 francophone parents of Manitoba in the francophone
school division that will support the comment that inundated learning or being immersed in a
language is the only way to learn. We're not here talking about how weak the English programming
is. We're talking about the opportunity to strengthen the francophone programming and the only
way to do that is by a French Milieu. Consider the impact to Neelin. We’ve seen the enrolment
numbers. The reason kids that leave New Era after Grade 8 are not increasing the numbers at Neelin
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is because they feel ill-prepared, lacking confidence to continue in the French programming, because
it is not meeting the standards. Regardless of what the basic skills test show – it is not! Thank-you,
very much.
Megan King
Hi, I am Megan King and I used to go to this school. I’m not saying this French Milieu thing is a bad
thing, I’m just saying choice number 3 is a bad one because sending the English kids to other schools
and then walking across the traffic - it's very dangerous. Especially for the early years student.
They probably won’t see many cars coming and you never know what's happening in traffic these
days. Sometimes it gets emotionally upsetting when you pull a student out of a school they have been
in since Kindergarten, Grade 1 or Grade 2 and send them to a different school. Then they have two
years or however many years to settle in that school and then they are put into a high school. And
sometimes they feel really left out and like they don’t belong. So, yeah, I don’t think it’s a really bad
idea. I think it is a good thing if the French kids learn what they need to learn, but let the English
students also learn what they need to learn too. Cause we are all equal. No one is better.
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Andy Schroeder
I didn’t write a speech so I shouldn’t be too long. My name is Andy Schroeder. Some of you may
know that I have written a couple of letters about this issue to the Brandon Sun and I have said a lot,
even maybe most of what I wanted to say in those letters.
As a parent, we have two children in the French Milieu. One is now at Neelin, having come through
New Era, and the other who is still here. We initially got into the idea, and I still think that it is a good
idea, to learn a second language. I think that it does help your development over all. I have nothing
against French Milieu.
I just have some concerns and doubts that going further, going deeper, going perhaps over your head
into French is being advocated by a certain select few. I do not know. Maybe the survey you are
collecting tonight (which I thank you for doing) will better let us know how many people actually did
support the idea of a full French Immersion school. Milieu – pardon me.
I didn’t make any notes and I didn’t write a speech, so I just have a couple of thoughts. I'm concerned
about the way we seem to want to shuffle children all over town to pull together one school. If
anything, I think building a new school would be a better solution than doing some of moves that are
described in some of the other options. I have concerns that I wish to share about if we do move
children, with them crossing streets and so forth. I agree there are people who can afford to drive all
over town to come to French Immersion. I don't necessarily agree that there are people in this area
who have come to this school and sent their children to attend this school who would be able to drive
their children 1/2 way across town to another school. I have concerns for the children who would be
moved and possibly moved away from teachers that they like, students who they friends with and so
on. I don't know that much has been said about anything like that. And I don't think anything has
been really paid attention to as regards to what the students think.
I don’t mean to sell the Board short. I know that at the start the whole intention is what's best for
children. I have no doubt about that. I just have concerns that we are going a little overboard in
trying to do that. I won’t go on much longer.
I do see a lot of costs here and other information. One of my complaints to the Brandon Sun in the
past has been I wanted this information. I think we all deserved this information months ago. I do
appreciate the fact that we do have it now. But I can't help feeling a little upset that, you know, here
at a meeting now, supposed to be all about this thing, a decision already having been made, the public
is now getting some numbers on money and on various other things. So that is my complaint and
rather than writing a Letter to the Editor again, I thought I would say that out there.
I don’t really have anything else to say. As a family, my children and myself are not at present in
favor of a French Milieu school. This decision appears to have already been made. I am not quite
clear on the why we are even considering this, unless the school board will actually contemplate
changing its mind. I don’t find that very often organizations do that without very good reasons. My
feelings on the matter and public opinion aren’t always considered to be very good reasons. So I
remain kind of patiently waiting to see what further developments will happen and I hope we will do
the right thing especially for the benefit of our children. Thank-you.
Debby Netsel (?)
Good afternoon. My name is Debby Netsel. I don’t have anything written up but I have notes that I
kind of made for myself. My biggest concern is counseling for children who need counseling while
attending, either for low attendance or any kind of counseling. I find this very, very important and
very strong in this school. That is very important to my child. And to many single parents and
parents who need that right now. I think that is very strong in this school. And without that many
parents, being a single parent myself in a core area, is very strong. Like it can be not only for your
child but for yourself as a parent. And when you include the parent as well as a child, the child
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would get the help that the parent can give them. That doesn’t always come for yourself, being a
single parent. I live on the saying it takes a community to raise a child. A single parent cannot do that
alone. We need the strong counseling in this school. A parent can grasp this concept and pass them
on to their child.
And being a single parent, the ability to work and transfer your school to another school – What
about when its winter and it's dark outside? Or crossing to King George? Or its early in the morning?
You don’t have the ability to go to school. To know your child is going to get to school safe. You’ve
got to be a single parent and stay at home. You would rather work, but you’ve gotta stay home for
your child. And make sure your child gets to school safe, when it’s dark outside, or is crossing a busy
intersection. That’s not safe. A lot of pedophiles and stuff like that outside, that is a major concern
for me.
Being a single parent and sending lunch to your child, say at King George or any other school on a
limited budget when you are already stretched to the limit, that is another concern. Where is that
money going to come from? When your child can come home for lunch, you can stretch your dollar
instead of sending it with her. And you have to buy special stuff that she will eat. Groceries are going
up. Our money coming in on a limited budget is not going up. Where’s that income that’s gonna
stretch that dollar. Every time I go to the store, something else is going up. Where is that extra dollar
going to come from? Yes, we can go to the soup kitchen and that, but your daughter gets sick of that
and she wants to come home. I understand that my daughter will have to transfer to another school
eventually and that is a big concern for me being on a single limited budget.
You want to work, but your ability to work is limited because you want your child to get there
safely. So your child goes to another school and is not bussed. How are you going to get them there
and make sure you get them there safe? You go to school early. There is no guarantee that your child
will go. Or get there safe. How can you concentrate on work, when you are worried? There may be a
lot of single parents and low income in this core area.
I have a lot of counselling in this school and I feel it is very, very strong. I would like to see that if that
does go through, can we be guaranteed that our kids will get there safe? That is a big concern, and a
big cost, not only for the parent, but for the taxpayer and the core area. That is a big thing. We are
already stretched to the limit. Every time we go to the store, something is going up. We are already
stretched. Maybe your daughter has something going on a school – you can’t attend. I’m just kind of
worried about how this is going to go, because my daughter doesn’t really want a French one, she
wants English and she has been having problems with attendance and I have sought the counselling
of this school and the school has been able to work with me. Maybe other parents from this area
could draw from the counselling, which is very strong. They reach out to the parents. And if you are
in another school, you can’t draw from that. How you gonna be able to concentrate on your work
build your life for your family? How are you gonna get them a better life? And I hope many of the
concerns will be addressed and you will pay attention to these concerns and I thank-you for your
attention. Thank-you.
Marcia Hamm-Wiebe
My name is Marcia Hamm-Wiebe and I too am very thankful that I could have the opportunity to
participate in this public consultation. From the very beginning of the conversations I've been a part
of, I have been waiting for this, so I am thankful to have this time. Although it feels like I’m at the
dentist. I’m not really enjoying myself, although it is good for me to be here. I’m sure it will feel better
when I'm done.
Our family is very happy with our involvement with our children's education at New Era School. Our
son is in Grade 5 at New Era School and our daughter has attended the Y at New Era Early Learning
Centre for over a year now. Our daughter is currently enrolled to start kindergarten in French
Immersion starting in September.
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There are two reasons we chose New Era as the school for our children's education. Our family
supports learning a second language at an early age, so we're glad to have the opportunity to have
our children educated in a bilingual program. We chose New Era as well because we are aware of the
diverse cultures that are represented in the school population. We want our children to experience
other cultures in our community particularly aboriginal cultures. These two reasons are both
important. We support diversity in the school community and also want our children to learn to be
bilingual. I think New Era School meets these goals very well.
The most important issue facing the school at this time is the lack of space. These are my suggestions
as to the use of space in New Era School - place portable classrooms to house students until the space
issues have been resolved. Would it be possible to cap the enrollment in French Immersion
kindergarten until space issues have been resolved? That is a specific question for which I will wait
for answer in early May. It could be in the written material that I haven't had a chance to read yet.
Have the Grade 7 and 8’s French Immersion students attend Neelin High School until space issues
have been resolved. There may be many other solutions possible and I urge the trustees to deal with
the issue of space for students at New Era separately from the French Milieu proposal.
As parents we are not in favor of the French Milieu proposal. As previously stated we enjoyed the
multicultural environment currently at New Era and see no need for change except that the school is
overcrowded. Historically schools in our city have been connected to their neighbourhoods and the
families that live nearby. By moving toward the establishment of a French Milieu program, the
school board is proposing a change that will affect every family in out city. Is it in the best interests
of our community that we have one catchment area in Brandon devoted exclusively to the learning
of the French language? I believe that removing the school from its community will be detrimental to
the surrounding neighbourhood and the families that live there. The Community schools program at
New Era is showing how important cultural programs are to community members of all ages and
culture groups. If a school is not available and the neighbourhood is no longer the home for the
families, than what holds the neighbourhood together? I think that the volunteers who are struggling
to keep our neighbourhood community centers alive would tell us that it is very important that
neighbours have places to meet each other. Children need places to play in their neighbourhoods, to
play and learn. Schools are vital to their neighbourhood relationships. If the school board decides to
establish a new educational program such as the French Milieu program then that program removes
itself from its neighbourhood because it excludes other languages so that it can be what it says – a
Milieu. I'm not sure that's what our community wants!
In addition, our city is welcoming more and more families from many cultures, many languages.
These families want to learn English. I'm not sure that the trustees have been able to address the
increasing need to teach English as an additional language. This is a growing concern in families
where learning English should be the priority, rather than establishing a new version of an already
successful French Immersion program.
However, since the proposal is in front of the Board and may very well proceed into the
establishment of a French Milieu program I will give my following suggestions:
In regard to broad based support - I strongly urge that this be defined as an overwhelming majority
in favour. That would be like 60 – 75% of people saying yes we want this and that would be in part a
poll of current French Immersion parents. I see the survey which I will fill out. It has been frustrating
for me to see the education of my children discussed at this level of the board with no consultation of
the parents other than a few who somehow became involved in the discussion at the Education
Committee level.
As to implementation - the establishment of a French Milieu program should not occur until after the
catchment areas in Brandon are adjusted to deal with current developments in our city and to look at
the enrolment numbers that are changing. The school board's priority should be preparing our
schools to teach English - not trying to find a way to teach more French to children who are already
served very well by the French Immersion program as it exists. Also the EDI results points too many
needs in our community that will not be addressed by a French Milieu program. In fact the students
who scored the highest on the EDI will receive the benefit of a French Milieu program which is a
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subtle change. It may have a lot more impact then I am aware of – I haven’t read all of my homework.
However the students who scored lowest will suffer the greatest disruption in their school
community. This is unacceptable and I am unwilling to support any movement towards a French
Milieu program while it will cause other students undue disruption in their education and
neighbourhood relationships.
As the timing and location - there's no compelling need for a French Milieu program. Rather it
appears that the need for space in New Era School has given the perception that changes should be
made quickly. There is nothing to be gained by moving forward if we don't know where we are
going. There to many questions about the cost of options, however, I have not read my homework.
The options for location appear to be complicated and will likely cause a great deal of disruption in
our school division. I would not support any of the options in the near future. With current plans to
raise taxes, I think that the school trustees need to reprioritize and put this proposal back to the
community. If overwhelming and broad based support exists, move forward slowly and with a great
deal of consultation. Thank you for consideration of my presentation.
Chris Tufts
My name is Chris Tufts and I have two children currently in French Immersion in Brandon. One is in
Grade 9 at Neelin and one is in Grade 5 at New Era. I have to say that I have been very happy with the
quality of education they have received from both schools, for the most part.
I do not have a formal prepared speech I simply wanted to say that I am in favour of the Board
proceeding with the Milieu program. I do feel that it is of benefit. And I have anecdotal evidence to
support that: The last school year – the 07/08 school year, we had a French exchange student from
France live with us for a year. She attended Massey in Grade 11. She was actually quite impressed
with the ability of my son and daughter to be able to speak French in their school subjects. And she
thought the work that they were taking, was quite good. It wasn’t up to the standards of a French
education, according to her. But she felt that they could not hold a simple conversation in French
however, and that is the kind of a situation that I feel the Milieu will overcome. Because then the
children will be expected to hold simple conversations all day long, in French - something that
doesn't happen to them now. And they currently do not have the French vocabulary to be hold a
simple conversation. So that's something I fully support.
I agree with a lot of things that the previous speaker right before me said. I don't agree with her
about the Milieu environment and I think that the research does show that it is the best method of
providing an immersion program.
I am not going to get into the argument about the schools, and whatnot. I do feel that capping the
French immersion program and not allowing admission into Kindergarten is not an option that the
Board should be looking at. The current program is growing. The numbers are going up every year we're having to find new classroom space for them. And that is, like she said, is one of the main
issues before the Board right now and I think you have to not confuse that issue with the issue of the
development of the Milieu school. Thank-you.
Jim Forsyth
Good Evening Ladies and Gentlemen. My name is Jim Forsyth. I have a student – son – in Grade 3
French Immersion.
I believe the following things to be fact:
•
New Era is at or passed its capacity;
•
the Brandon School Division has so much spare capacity that a new school or addition to
existing school is unlikely;
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•
some of the children currently attending New Era are going to be displaced regardless of
what is done or said here tonight;
•
French Immersion is according to numerous studies a beneficial, even a better form, of
education.
Of the several types of immersion programs or options the Milieu, or center, has been established as
the most beneficial according to a study done for the Ottawa/Carlton Board of Education comparing
Milieu, or what they refer to as an Immersion centre, dual track and regular English Grade 5 students.
The test results indicate superior achievement on the part of the Milieu center students in several
aspects of French and English language skills. The questionnaire data provides information on the
possible reasons for these differences. The overall implication of the study for planning immersion
programs is to provide a school environment which encourages the maximum use of French. The
study found no greater use of French by immersion center students outside the classroom whether
on school property or at home -pointing to the use of French inside the school by teachers and
administrators and staff as the determining factor. The Province of Manitoba’s own educational
website refers to dual track immersion option as “challenging”.
I did not wish to disadvantage any other child's educational opportunities. But to me the choice of
French immersion for my son was a no brainer. The Milieu option is merely an upgrade from
Immersion – Lite to Immersion – Regular. Good to better. From a purely educational standpoint I
can't really see a downside. If as a parent you opted for French immersion because you thought it
was a good idea for your kid to learn a second language - why settle for the second best option?
Some of the options presented this evening require some expenditure, some substantial budget and
tax implications.
But does anyone truly believe that any provincial government would find
additional capacity and new capital cost to a Division with significant unused classroom spaces? You
would think that splitting the French Immersion program between two places would be cheaper?
How much does it cost to have announcements, sports days and school assemblies in French? Aren’t
the faculty and administration at New Era already fluent in French? What is the exact amount of
additional funds that someone talked about as being millions of dollars required to implement this
program?
Whether you believe the figures or not that we were given tonight, it certainly indicates that Option
#3 is the least expensive option. When a student population outgrows the capacity of the school to
house them and there's no money for new schools or additions - what is the logical alternative that
best serves the needs of all those students? Would this issue have been as contentious if it did not
involve the word “French”? Does anyone think that New Era with its current 90 catchment area
students that are not bussed be a viable program if French Immersion was removed? In the fall of
2009, and please correct me if I am wrong, there will be four French Immersion kindergarten classes
at New Era School. There are two students currently registered for non-immersion Kindergarten at
New Era School for the fall of 2009. This a space allocation issue! It is that simple! And it is that
difficult! Doing nothing is not an option! Thank-you very much.
Joy Hamilton
Good Evening. Thank-you for having this tonight. I really appreciate it. My name is Joy Hamilton. I
have taught – I’m in my 17th year of teaching here at New Era School. It really flew. I teach on the
English side. In my time here I’ve seen New Era evolving into a more open and welcoming
community based school.
When I first started here I had many parents who felt uneasy about coming into the school. School
had not been a positive place for them in the past. As a result, many would not show up at meetings
or events. Now there are parents in the school for all kinds of events including attending conferences
alongside teachers, helping out in classrooms and cooking for fundraisers and school events. They
are bringing their children to open gym nights, movie nights, meetings, just to name a few. Often, I
will pop into our community room to see parents visiting, doing laundry, or just sitting reading the
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newspaper. This is a huge change! This is huge! When parents have a comfort level with their
community school, they often become more involved in their children’s education. This helps make
students more successful in their school academically, emotionally and socially. So getting the
parents involved and belonging is a big thing.
The proposal that I am deeply concerned about is the transfer of the children, in the English program
to other schools in order to accommodate a French Milieu school. I am speaking on behalf of those
parents who do not feel comfortable speaking in public and the large number who are new to
Canada and are still learning to speak English. I’m speaking for them.
I’ve had years of a very high transient rate with my students with several years at 100% turnover.
This year I have had only two children move out and five move in. That’s huge! The Community
Schools program is a huge reason why. Having a caring and constant staff is another. It takes years
to build trust and relationships where home and school together raise a child. We all know it is not
just the teachers and parents that have impact on a child. Peers have a huge impact on them as well.
As an example, my students are learning from each other in an amazing way. Due to the many
cultures and languages spoken in my room, we are learning pieces of each other’s languages, Cree,
Ojibway, Spanish, Vietnamese, French, Danish and Sign Language are all being played with. This not
only makes it fun to learn, but it teaches them to respect each other in a big way. We have a very
global atmosphere. All of the English classes have similar stories I’m sure. I’m just speaking
personally from mine.
If these families have to move their children to a location further away, you have heard many reasons
already that would make it difficult for them. Parents would not be able to get to the school as easily.
Students who miss the school bus have been known to walk with their parents from a very long
distance, even in freezing weather. How are they going to get them to school on those occasions
when the school is even further away? Remember it is not just the children who will be affected - it’s
the parents too. Not all parents do have vehicles. This is a neighbourhood school – and my numbers
are a little off maybe with getting new students - of about 158 students in this program with more
coming every year. Their parents did not choose to transport them to a school further across town as
do the French Immersion parents. This is their neighbourhood! We need to be very careful that
whatever plan is put into place it is in the best interest of all the children, not just those in one
program. All children deserve to be taught in the best environment possible to strengthen and
accelerate their learning.
In my opinion the best learning environment for these children is right here in the neighbourhood
school. As a school funded in a dual track school, part of that funding is for an English speaking
inner-city school. I don't see how an inner-city school can be taken out of the inner-city. Thank-you.
Kristen Phillips
My name is Kristen Phillips. A gentleman commented that there are many French Immersion Grade
8’s who do not attend Neelin High School because they are not competent in their French skills. As a
New Era and Neelin High School graduate, I would argue that those students are not continuing in
the French Immersion program and choosing to attend Crocus Plains or Vincent Massey , because of
the opportunity to take a vocational course or other courses not offered at Neelin High School.
Thank-you.
Chris Simard
Hello. My name is Chris Simard. I live in Kemnay and have two boys attending the New Era French
immersion program – Grades 1 and 3 and another one in two more years. We sent the kids here to
learn a second language and have always trusted that the French immersion program is the best
environment possible. The teachers have done an excellent job with our kids and we hope that their
education continues with the same quality as we expect from a French immersion program.
If we continue to cram too many kids into New Era and lose the art room, science lab, music room
and even daily phys. ed. programs to accommodate the growing numbers of families all our
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children's education will suffer - English and French immersion. Space is the problem, so let's deal
with it whatever the cost. Whatever decision is made, let’s have faith that the Trustees will make the
best decision possible without losing any quality of English or French immersion education. Thanks.
Haley Walters
Mine will be about two minutes long. My name is Haley Walters, I have two children here in the
English program. No laughing. Alright – I have just put on question here - Why do we need a French
Milieu school if it means displacing children in the English track program? French Immersion has
been working great in New Era School sharing the space with English children. Why should this
setting be fixed if it is not broken? Yes, space is an issue and should be dealt with as a different topic.
If French parents want their child to be completely submerged in French, why do they not do this in
other ways – French television, French magazines, etc. Who can guarantee those children who are in
the French Milieu School will not talk English at recess? In times of recession and financial
insecurity, why would the Brandon School Division want to take on another financial project instead
of focusing on the here and now and the fact that there’s already going to be approximately $1.3
million short and considering cutting teachers already? This just doesn’t make sense to me. Why
should the public tax money go towards not the most essential need in our community? After all the
work that's been done already at New Era School. Transferring our children in core area would only
lead to bigger problems. If there is a hike in taxes is should be going towards more programming
that is vital for the core area instead of an extra hour of French a day. Has there been any letters sent
home directly to the French families at New Era School to even ask what their thoughts of the French
Milieu School would mean to them? To my understanding, there has not been a letter sent home
and I am curious as to why this did this not happen?
As two concerned parents, my other half went home, with two children that go to New Era School –
English program - we have no objections to the French Milieu School itself, as long as it is not funded
with our hard earned dollars. So our question is - what is this going to cost financially and
emotionally for the children – our children – the families and the community involved? Thank-you.
Ian Carkner
Good Evening, Dr. Michaels, Trustees and assorted guests. Unfortunately I come to you with the
experience of having done this twice now. Sorry, my name is Ian Calkner. I was a Grade 4 student in
my community school which was Riverview School in the East end of Brandon. We weren’t exactly
wealthy but we weren’t exactly on the lower end of that school. And you can ask Ms. Pickard, I was
actually at that school at that time.
The decision was made that the costs of having two French Immersion programs, one at Riverview
and one at Riverheights School; was excessive and the decision was made centralize the programs
here, in a central location which was accessible to the entire City of Brandon. New Era was also
chosen because of its large size. There was room for growth in this building. The school at that time
was home to a K – 9 English program. Probably no one here can remember that there actually was 7
– 9’s going to this school in English. Those students now leave here attending King George, Earl
Oxford and I'm not sure if any of them end up at Kirkcaldy now or not. So this was a 7 – 9 program.
A change was made and there was some anger felt about that change. It is long past.
The second opportunity, if you can call it an opportunity, that I had to deal with this, was a
professional just a few years ago working at Fleming School when the decision was made to close
Fleming and move our student body down the street to Earl Oxford School. Now most of you can
probably remember the anger that was felt over all of that. We’ve dealt with that and moved on. Our
school functions well. Students are happy. Yes, we still have some security concerns once in awhile
with crossing streets. The Board has come to our aid with that and for the first couple of years of
transition we had a crossing guard. We now have lights established to help our students get across
the street.
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I understand many of those concerns of local community. You're not sure. You're uncertain. We
went through that. It's been dealt with. Our children are happy except, the ones in my class I guess. I
have always told them that if you are not prepared to speak out about something that you can’t
criticize it later. So that is why I am here tonight.
The true issue and the unfortunate issue that keeps getting lost in all the debate about Milieu and the
Francophobe issues seem to come up when we talk about French things and again I grew up speaking
French in a primarily English culture. I was called a frog a lot even though I have not a single French
person in my background. My parents chose to send me to this program so that I could advance
beyond what they accomplished in their lives. The true issue here at this school is size. My son is six.
Anybody in this room with a six year old knows they tend to have a lot of energy. When my son
comes to this gym for phys. ed. he attends with over 40 children. I have concerns for his safety but I
have more concerns for the other kids’ safety knowing how he plays. This is a space and size issue.
We have kindergarten kids being taught out of a handbag because you don't have enough room in
the building for a separate music room because we have more slots to be filled then we actually have
spaces.
Coming in the next two years, we'll have more students to teach phys. ed. to than we have phys. ed.
slots. I really can't see the phys. ed. teachers being keen on going outside in January to teach because
the gym if full. Next year, as has already been alluded to we’ve got four French Immersion
kindergartens, plus an English. That's five kindergartens. We have four kindergartens moving to
Grade 1 next year. That puts us at – plus an English – that’s ten classrooms from K to 1. Add in the
next steps. The Grade 1’s this year - there are presently three classes. So we are up to thirteen
classes and we haven't even left the early years programming. We’re out of space.
So the issue that has to be addressed is what are we going to do for room next year not waiting for a
school to be built in five years, if that ever happens. We've been down that road before. Are we
prepared, as in some jurisdictions to enact a cap on French immersion? Are we prepared to enact a
lottery – where only certain people’s names are drawn and you are allowed into the program? Or are
we prepared to go back to what happened when I was in French Immersion? It was not a K program.
It was a begin in Grade 4 program. I lost over half the students I went to school with because they
didn't make the grade. That's not fair. Anybody who wants to improve themselves whether by
learning a second language should have the opportunity to do so. This school was chosen for that
reason. You are the people we have elected to make the decisions for us. I am pleased that you have
asked for our feedback and opportunity. Hopefully you can see a way to making a correct choice.
We have to give the kids who want the chance to succeed the same chances my parents gave me.
Thank-you.
Denise Cox
This waiting is a killer. My name is Denise Cox. I am here as a parent. My child is in kindergarten in
French Immersion. I am also here as a professional. I am an Occupational Therapist and I work in
mental health.
I’m sorry I’m a little disorganized. I am not against the Milieu School in principle. I’m so excited that
my children have a chance to be in French Immersion. I did core French in Minnedosa and I did
French Immersion for the summer after I did Grade 12 and I was hooked. I'd really enjoyed speaking
French and I learned more than I did in twelve years of school. And then I was lucky enough to be in
Katimavik so I was able to speak French a little bit more again.
But as a health care professional I've always abided by the tenants of “Do No Harm”. I’m against the
options that have been presented I guess. I am not against the Milieu idea, I’m just against the
options we have been given.
I feel that the harm far outweighs the benefits especially for the
catchment area children.
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My other concern is the cost. It just doesn’t seem practical to have two administrations in one school.
I’m satisfied with the dual track program as much as I've experienced so far. It's better than what I
got going to school.
One option that I haven’t heard proposed would be to build a new school for the catchment area
children in the core area and allow New Era to be Milieu School because, there's a much larger group
of students. And this is a large school and it’s a smaller group of children for the catchment area. I
believe this would be more fiscally responsible as the school would not have to be as large and can be
built to suit the needs of the catchment area children and their families. The School Division has
managed to make an alternative high school downtown and perhaps they should also consider
establishing a similar elementary school that would be built to suit the needs of the at risk children
that might be living in the core area. And then we could have our Milieu program with a clear
conscience .
There is a great concern about space at New Era and of course as a parent I have two more children
coming up. So, you know, this is going to become a growing concern. I think that the Millieu School
requirement limits our ability to be creative in finding solutions to the problem space. I am not
totally opposed to the Grades 7s and 8s moving to Neelin for a short time until perhaps maybe a new
school for middle years that is a Milieu program could be established, if that would work.
I think there are many options we haven't explored yet, so I don't think we should be moving quickly.
I think we should be taking our time and considering as many options as possible that will suit, you
know, the majority of the children the best. I didn’t really make a finale so I guess that is all I have to
say. Thank-you for giving me a chance to speak.
Sara King
Hello, my name is Sara King and I go to Betty Gibson School. I think it is wrong to change New Era
into a French Milieu school because it is not fair to the other kids cause you know 50% of the school
is aboriginal and only 10% is French and you want to change a little bit of French into a big school. I
think it’s wrong. Thank-you.
Tim Bone
(Opened in aboriginal)
What I said was “Hello – I’m Blue Turtleman”. My name is Tim Bone. I’m a youth worker for the
Brandon Aboriginal Activity Youth Centre.
For the change of the school and also the aboriginal kids that come – I’m also Metis – I’m half
Aboriginal and half White – so I know the diversity and part of it is French. I know a little bit of
French as well. But what the aboriginal program that they have here and also the French aspect of
the program and also the English aspect of the program is great. It’s great to keep those things here.
I’m also a community member for New Era School . We sing here on Wednesdays with Mrs. Kejick.
She has us come in. Our drum group is called “Sweet Grass Ojibway”. To bring in a full French school
is a big mistake. I don't think you guys are using your minds, your hearts and your spirits as one. I
think you are using your mind too much more than your heart. Think about these kids. I get a lot of
kids that come from this school to my youth program. I am nervous – sorry – excuse me. I am a
single person and I have a about 80 kids and most of them - half of them are about six to twelve
years old and the other half are thirteen to twenty-nine. I have a lot of them that come, aboriginal
and non-aboriginal. Oriental background, Asian background, Spanish, Mexican, I have a lot of them
that come into our Youth Centre that utilize our program. To turn this into an all-speaking French
school would be a really big mistake. It would be something that you would, I don’t know, I don’t
know how to say it, that would be unbelievable because the kids that come here are sacred no
matter what nationality they are and what they speak.
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Brandon School Division
With that I would like to say thank-you for listening and also I have a gift. And this gift that I have is
sweet grass and I would like to give it to the Trustees. And if they want to know how to use it or what
it is for, they can tell me afterwards. I’ll wait around and I can so them or whatever and we can talk
more about it.
Glen Simard
I would like to maybe ask permission to face the crowd from your spot, because I want to face the
Trustees as well. They are my boss and I don’t’ want to turn my back on them.
Both my wife and I teach here and we’re going to be - my name is Glen Simard and my wife is Lori
Simard - we both teach here, fell in love here – blah, blah blah. We have alot invested here and next
year we are we know we're putting our most precious investment - our children – here. And I guess
if that's a conflict of interest, based on Mr. Hoy’s filibuster, as a teacher, I’m speaking as a parent
today, I guess I have no choice.
This upcoming school year, 2009-2010 and for the foreseeable future Ecole New Era School is living
with the following realities. They are real. We can talk about them, but next year they will show up.
As things stand both programs - Can both programs thrive and grow as they stand today?
Not having enough physical space is a major factor. There are not enough gym slots to teach daily
quality physical education to all students. There’s no art room and science lab in this building. The K
- 8 French Immersion program alone constitutes one of, if not the largest populations amongst K-8
schools in the Brandon School Division. Currently with about 130 students the largest population
within the Immersion program is in Kindergarten and Grade 1. Alone these two levels almost eclipse
the entire English student body. The numbers in next year's registered Kindergarten classes already
warrants three classes and more than likely a fourth.
Based on BSD statistics, French immersion students represent one of the lease transit populations in
school division, as this shows that students in the Immersion program stick it out. Future enrolment
has been predicted to be very large for many years to come.
In a recent graduate study of the BSD 100% of French immersion students who chose this for high
school graduated. The Brandon School Division would desperately love to raise graduation rates
and give more students a chance of success. Thus the potential for growth at a single track
immersion school designed to hold a larger number of students can be nothing but beneficial.
As well the Federal government provides financial supplements to divisions offering French
Immersion programs and the more students enrolled would also mean more funding. Since there's a
possibility to provide superior programming for my sons and space is truly an imminent and
pressing factor I believe the BSD should give serious thought to this item and move forward. If not
the question is how will the division ensure to work towards providing superior learning experiences
for the immersion students - is “good enough” what we accept? If there were a school located across
the street that could house the capacity of either displaced group would this conversation even be
happening? Based on the anecdotes played out in the media, board presentations, I can reasonably
assume that the answer is no.
You can't say I'm for it in principle and be against it in principle. Whether it is immersion or
catchment, the focus should be on finding a home for a population that the building cannot
reasonably accommodate. If the answer is no, the problem is not with the programming. The
problem is with the displacement of one of the student bodies. Let us turn our attention away from
vilifying French immersion parents who place their trust in the Board to provide excellence in
education an example of what the Milieu is. Keep in mind that these are the very same parents who
as a result of sending their kids to New Era have kept the current location viable for so many years.
Without French immersion in Brandon in this school as an old elementary school may have been
closed decades ago.
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In closing, I had that planned earlier, can any population, other than a high school or French
immersion population maintain a student body that would be able to sustain a 520 capacity school
initially designed way back in 1908 and expanded in 1963 to be a high school? They had it right back
then. Recent residential developments have put Brandon School Division in a precarious position
where certain schools are overflowing, while others are emptying. Whatever the decision taken as a
result of these consultations these larger questions remain. In the end parents who have chosen New
Era for the French language education have proven that they will send their kids to whatever
location the Board deems appropriate. Thank-you.
Jo-Anna Boyd
My name is Jo-Anna Boyd and I am here as the parent of two children and a future French Immersion
student and as a staff member at Neelin High School in the Life Skills suit.
My concerns are kind of maybe different then a lot here tonight. I'm concerned about sending my
young children to a high school with 17, 18, 19 year old adults. And that is coming from someone
who attended a K-12 school. And to be perfectly honest I would consider pulling my kids out of
French immersion before sending them to a K – 12 school. Also, Neelin is not set up for little kids.
I’m also concerned about the life skills kids. We worked for years to include them in the student
body and if that student body is speaking French our inclusion is down the drain.
I also just wanted to say to the French Immersion teachers you have done a great job. My kids love
school. They love speaking another language. My ten year old wants to learn Spanish. How great is
that?
For option one, and this is an actual question, I'm wondering if the 7 and 8’s moved from here to
Neelin would the English track students still be there? I’ll be looking for that answer in May. Thankyou.
Garnet Boyd
Thank-you. My name is Garnet Boyd. I have heard a lot of great presentations here tonight and a lot
of views on both sides. So I won’t try to speak again on different topics that have already been
touched on. But just a few that I have- that really haven’t, I feel, been touched on.
I’m very familiar with Notre Dame D’Lourde. Friends of mine that I spent a lot of time with grew up
in that area and they went through the same process. They spent three years being sure they had it
established. Not going through then all of a sudden at one school board meeting it is bought to
attention and all of a sudden this is what we are enacting.
The other one going back with that, is the fact that, going into a Milieu school, you are required now
that everything is in French. It is not just 9:00 to 3:00 of 3:30, as I have heard going through here.
Your homework will be in French that you are taking home with you. The other process that is also
with it is that any interviews being held - parent teacher interviews - all reports, everything is going
home in French. If that is what a true Milieu school is. I need to know if that is what we are speaking
about. If that’s true, then the parents are going to have to be bilingual themselves or they are not
going to be able to help the students; they are not going to be able to sit in at parent teacher
interviews; go through their reports and help them. That is a true Milieu school and that is the way
it was set up in Notre Dame D’Lourdes.
Now I am not sure if that is what we are speaking of. I keep hearing that transition here that we are
French Immersion or Milieu. If its Milieu, its French – that’s it! And that’s one I know that a lot of
people have concerns with. Maybe someone could answer that right now? The French Immersion
today that we have you can hold those parent teacher interviews in English, but if it is a true Milieu
school, everything, as you were mentioning - administration, everything at the school, is in French
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Brandon School Division
and that can limit a lot of people that are going? And those students that involved in that, of those
students going home and parents are not bilingual themselves. There is going to be a problem there.
Other things that they found going through Notre Dame D’Lourdes is that students that finish that
and are brought up in a French community as well, everything is in French. Very little English. Now
when they move from that, and it was brought up here tonight - the majority of postsecondary
education is in English. And they can lose some of that transition going through there – of
processing it in French, then going to English to translate it. They do have some problems in post
secondary education. Some are being restricted to St. Boniface College and some others so that is one
thing you need to look at - is possible restrictions. I think it is something that really needs to be
looked at on how we are processing this.
Someone mentioned that there may be good funding. There is funding through Federal Government
but that is one that needs to be put out to the general public, the taxpayer, that’s going through on
this.
What area the costs on this? That is something we hadn’t seen until tonight. I was very concerned
with the issues that we brought out when this was originally adopted. We had six options. There
was never one that went out to the public as to whether we should have one or not. There never was
a number seven – a No. That should have been an option that was there. It should be with
everything. Are we actually going to go through with this? The decision that I see from this is that
the Board had made a decision. We are going ahead with this, but what six options are you going
with? So that’s what I would like to leave you with that one.
The French Immersion we have today works. It seems the biggest issue we have is space. And if that
can work – to go with the Milieu School as well – to establish that space and I was involved as well in
Fleming and I still have concerns over that one – as we are going through with an issue there today
where we are using a school today that was supposedly condemned for the students that were in
there. I thank-you for your time.
Dr. Michaels
Ladies and Gentlemen – it is 9:00. So if you are interested in speaking would you just move to the
microphones. So I could know it. I am taking you at the order in which you appeared at the
microphones. Please proceed.
Sharon Bergman (?)
Hi my name is Sharon Bergman. My daughter is in Grade 6 in French Immersion. I speak not one
word of French. I can’t count in French. I don’t know my alphabet in French. The teachers at New
Era are amazing. Every parent teacher interview I have been to, I tell them I don’t speak any French,
which has been fine. They help with homework. I have no issues. My daughter is very fluent in
French. She has her friends over. They all sit around in talk in French and I have not a clue what’s
going on. But that’s okay.
I totally support the Milieu School. I don't support option #1, largely because my daughter is going
to Grade 7 and I don’t want her to go to Neelin. She's twelve and I have my own concerns. I know
that this is a really tough decision for you guys. But I think that there are lots of options to consider.
I don’t want you to move the little kindergarten kids to another school either. I don't want my child
to walk and I don’t want anyone else’s child to walk. I certainly wouldn’t want your job. All I want
you to know is that I do support the Milieu school and I think the teachers at New Era deserve lots.
Thank-you very much.
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Jay Duncan
My name is Jay Duncan. I was born and raised here in Brandon. In fact I was born on the boarders.
Which means I was originally moved to Park School and then it was to full and I was moved to
Alexander (NOTE: I believe he means Alexandra School but continues to use the word Alexander)
and then I got moved back to Park and then they were tearing Park down so I moved to Alexander.
Then previous Boards of Trustees closed Alexander and I was moved to McLaren which is I think
where all of you meet. I’m old enough now that I don’t remember the trauma, if there was much.
And I would say that I think it is possible in this City, although it is growing, it isn’t that much bigger
than when I was growing up here. I lived on 12th Street in the 500 block which isn’t that far from
here. At that time Alexander was just two blocks away and Park was maybe five blocks away. And
McLaren was the furthest. I ended up crossing streets, Victoria, then tenth and sixth. As you get
older it gets safer to do right. I’ve heard concerns about the safety of children and certainly in my
field I think that's paramount to consider.
If can use the Chinese proverb that translates into English “You have to forget the doubts and fears
that are creeping into your hearts” because some you do have to make a decision here as a Board.
You've got a space issue. I think there is a need to support French immersion. I certainly support it,
I think it is Option #3 that is – looks most viable. I realize that means displacement. But I found it
really interesting to hear the historical perspective of why New Era is the French Immersion school. I
thought that was really important because some people are saying well – you know - the people in
the west end, the north end, the south end, they could drive there kids to school. But really, frankly, I
would rather not. This is just the way it is for us. My kids walk by a school, get picked up at a school
and then are bussed past four or five schools before they get here. That not ideal but it's the way it
is. They have adapted.
And as I said at the beginning I adapted to the change and continued through school and even though
one of my most favourite teachers told me in Grade 12 that I would never make it in University if I
kept doing what I was doing. And he was right. I got through that to. So I would suggest that you
have got to realize that it is a space issue and when I hear the numbers I think it is wonderful that we
have that many people interested in French Immersion in the city. I wish I had had that opportunity
when I was growing up as in my work now I have been down to Ottawa and I have had to deal with
people who are bilingual. And I have to say that it’s a disadvantage not to have that second language.
So I trust you will do the good work you have been elected to do. Thank-you very much.
Corrine Bullee
Hi I’m Corrine Bullee. I find it very hard to be up here and talk about the French Milieu. As I look
around here there are a lot of people who I know on the English side as well as the French side. So I
find it very difficult. It has become such a heated debate. I only come up here as a parent to answer
the question – Do I want French Milieu? If I want better programming for my child, do I want it? I
think the answer would be yes. Why wouldn’t I want a better program? If I was standing up here as
an English parent and watching and being in the English program and wanting the best for my kids –
I would be standing up here saying I want the best English program for my kids. However I stand up
here and I want the best for all of the kids. All of them.
I hear so much about - you know - what about the empathy on the other side. I look at the stats in
front of me and I hate to split it. But there are 135 French Immersion kids that walk to school here.
There are 90 English kids that walk to school here. Now I hope everyone has the same empathetic
response to the French Immersion students who walk through the snow and who only have one way
to get here – that way. Versus having only empathy for the other 90 as people are saying for the
other 90 that come to school. So that is a fact I wanted to put out there as well.
There are only, we have a total of 540 kids at our school and we are really only housed for 520. And
I do have concerns and my issues would be about the space and where it is going. How are we going
to house everybody? From both side of the programs what is the beneficial aspect, for both sides of
the program, when we are losing all areas of our school which have been mentioned throughout. Our
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art room, we have lost our science labs, etc. I don’t want to repeat myself. The issues I had in a
speech and then I listened to some of the facts that were put out there.
I like facts. I base myself on facts. The first thing is a milieu school – what is it? Well, I looked up
milieu – what does it mean? The environmental conditions, the surroundings, the social and cultural
environment in which a person or thing exists. A person’s social setting or environment. So it is
really for everybody to try and understand what would French Milieu mean – what does that look
like? We’ve put it out there, I’ve read stuff in the papers, on ebrandon. We have had tons of facts out
there that have been not real facts. Just currently, when we are asking for a French Milieu school,
right here in your handout:
“ What is a French Milieu School?”
“In a milieu setting, the French Immersion program is the only program in the school and 75% of it is
in French” - which means the EAL program is in English.
I’m not French, my kids can still come to a French Milieu school without me being French. No the
interviews are not done in French. I’m still choosing to send my child to a French Immersion school
to give them the opportunity to learn another language and hopefully - I have a child in Grade 5 and
a child in Grade 9 – currently my other child is learning Spanish and because of the French
Immersion program and is making it easier for her to pick up another language. When we travel or
have opportunities, I am ashamed to think that I don’t speak other languages. And that other people
can speak many languages.
I have read many, many things, and everyone is entitled to their opinion in the paper, but a lot of
narrow minded thinking has happened to think that we can’t even support our second language.
Let’s talk about kids going “those stupid French kids”. In a home, I hope that we all try to promote
diversity in cultures in our home, because it starts in our homes. That’s where it starts.
So therefore, I came to this school because I wanted our kids to have French Immersion I want to
have a better program – stats prove it. If you look on www.statscan. There was another comment
about it being an elitist program, well in four provinces Quebec, Manitoba, Saskatchewan and British
Columbia, there really are no difference in the family backgrounds. That’s www.statscan if you want
to look up that information. Are we an elitist program? I never once read that this was an inclusion
program where you could not send your kids to an immersion program. We are not that either. That
is another thing that gets out there, that we are elitist.
We were handed out a nice thing within our school, if you looked at all the stats, you can see where
the kids are coming from in all the catchment areas. And one of the things was that New Era is 11%
and Betty Gibson is 10% of the catchment areas. Apparently from a lot of people they all come from
the west end. While if I listed the schools they are only 4 or 5% so that the averages are not high in
that area. Those are a lot of the misconceptions out there. So if we want the best interests for our
kids we need to look at the stats. We need to look at the information.
Never once do I want to have us or the English students to be displaced. It’s horrible thing obviously.
We know that. We’ve seen it happen when we had to make that decision over at Earl Oxford. I look
at all your options. I find them interesting. The only one that does seem viable is Option #3, which is
unfortunate to me. I think we need to look at these options again and try to do better if we can.
Because when it comes down to money and I am looking at the schools here that are empty. We need
to look at some more options.
My last thing is that when I asked my kids what they thought – they don’t want to go to a K-12 French
Immersion school. They want to change. “I don’t want to go to the same school for 12 years of my
life” – my daughter said in Grade 9. “I loved and couldn’t wait to make the change”. I asked them if it
would be different to have French Immersion or French Milieu and my daughter in Grade 5 said it’s
easy to speak English when someone speaks English to you but then I get demerit points. Or I get
points taken off. Of course it is easy to speak English, because it is there.
So what I want you to do, is to look at the information, look at the facts. I don’t like pitting side to
side I find it very hard and very draining on a lot of people. What I am saying is no matter how we
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look at it all students are going to be either displaced or not displaced. It just depends on how you
are going to do it and how it is going to be done. That’s the answer and I want the best for all
students. Thank-you.
Christy Klassen
Good Evening members of the Trustee Board and members of the public. My name is Christy
Klassen. I am the parent on one student in the English program. My daughter attends the Y Early
Learning Centre here and is registered for Kindergarten in the fall. And as a side note I do want to
address that because she is one of the two that are registered. Our principal when he gave that
report said that that was the exact same position we were in the following school year yet we have a
kindergarten class of twenty students. They just happen to come in, not as a big mad rush at the
start, but they do come in a little bit later and longer.
My presentation this evening relates to the cost of the proposals laid before us. I do thank you are
preparing the financial costs for each of the proposals here this evening. My one question is where
are these funds? Which budget line are they gonna come from in the division budgets? I do have
some concerns that the amounts listed for Option #3 is not fully complete. Is there going to be no
cost for bussing students the extra distance? Is there going to be no costs for renovations into the
three new schools? Is there no additional cost for moving around teachers? Other teachers and their
supplies and their necessary things to do their job for our students? My other question perhaps will
be harder to answer - What will be the cost to the students in the division primarily academically as
well as socially and emotionally? I ask this question in relation to those proposals that look at
displacing any of the English track schools to create a Milieu environment.
Of significant importance to me is my son's school right here at New Era. This is two fold because it
is his school and my daughter's school to be and it is the catchment school for the downtown core
area. Are there any studies and I ask this question for May – are there any studies to indicate the
academic costs of displacing students to different schools especially when the division is already
struggling with numbers in some of those schools? ie- was there a notable impact when Earl Oxford
and Fleming were merged? Both in the students academics and the social tone of the school. When
the Division is already struggling to maintain optimal level of resource teachers, support staff and
educational assistants to name a few - How much more will this be stressed in the time of upheaval to
implement these program changes? How will our students education be affected in this time of
upheaval? I have concerns that we will notice we don’t have ideal staff teacher ratios in these crucial
areas due to the programming tracks been displaced and merged and moved around. In the time it
takes to make adjustments our children will have lost out on valuable time to utilize these resources
to improve their education. This cannot be retrieved or replaced and may set me some students
back irrevocably. After all many of these staff are in place to aid students who are struggling
academically due to speech or to development issues or learning differences etc. We already have
waiting lists for resource and support program and staff in various schools. Some of those included
in the proposed options to help our children. How much more will this demand increase with
merged schools? Do we risk that students are going to miss out on a needed and very important
aspect of their basic right to education? I am aware that the division is doing the best job possible
despite a lack of funding support from the province. However, I'm very concerned about the impact
on students academics and in the English programming tracks.
The option that removes the English track from New Era causes me great concern. Our school is so
vital necessary to our neighborhood. It has developed many partnerships with other community
organizations to aid our children and enhance their education. Yet we face losing this school as a
catchment area school for our English track. We face losing these important and invaluable
partnerships. This option splits our children into three different schools. How is this in their best
interests? How does this best serve their educational needs? Not only do they lose their
neighborhood school, they would split apart from the classmates and the support structures, both
with staff, and the additional programming we have managed to bring in and partner in the school. I
noted with great interest Mr. Lehman’s comments to the Trustees of the Board last night in the
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course of his school presentation he noted that a student’s comfortablity impacts their ability to learn
academically. I believe that directly relates to the concerns I’m voicing to you as a Board. We have
and continue to implement that weaving of social support and programming into strengthening our
student academic and classroom options for our English track students. Please do not remove that
ability from us.
Now then, I must ask this question – If the Milieu proposal is to strengthen the French immersion
program why must it happen in such a way that it may negatively impact those students in the
English track in other schools in the Division as well as this one. You are looking at a program
enhancement for approximately 10 to 15% of the Division population that will in the turn, impact
50% or more of the students in the English track programming. The French immersion program is
excellent and it’s students are scoring in the top 10% of the Division. Compare this to students in the
English track of New Era being the 4th lowest of early development instrument scores of the Division.
Where is the greatest need for improvement? Where is the best place for the division to focus
programming improvements in support? It is the right of every child to have the best education
possible no matter what their needs, learning abilities or circumstances. It is for all of our children's
education that we're all here tonight. This is the reason I believe why you as are trying so hard to
bring in more EA’s, resource staff, and other needed educational instruments to assist our students
achieve their best. So then I must ask how is this in the best interest of English track students to be
moved out of schools and into another school and possibly overcrowding in those situations when
this is not the most optimal learning environment. When you are a Board are looking at ways to
enhance the education of the students – how can you sacrifice any one group for another?
I do not begrudge a program enhancement so long as it does not negatively impact my children or
any other student in the division as a result. Currently the majority of these options would setback
the English programming in the division forcing it to play catch-up or to just keep up with the needs
of students rather than excelling in the education of our students. There is no way that it is fair or
right for one program to continue to excel on the backs of programming that the division is already
search for ways to improve in the tight budget constraints and a weaker economy with marginal
provincial support funding given to them. All of our children in the division deserve the best
education possible and these first five options do not provide that for the students in the English
programming of the entire Brandon School Division. Thank-you for your time.
Wendy Boyd
Good evening my name is Wendy Boyd. Just so there is no confusion, there are actually two Wendy
Boyd’s in Brandon and I am the one that is NOT married to Garnett. This is the first year in the last
sixteen that I haven't had the privilege of having a child at New Era School. I have one child still in
the Brandon School Division. He is in grade nine at Neelin.
I think I would like to say at the outset that because of the reading I have done, the information I've
seen, I support the Milieu program. I think that it is an advancement and that we should be trying to
provide the best education for all of our children here in Brandon. And for French immersion to me
that is the Milieu program. What concerns me though, alot. Is what I hear is kind of a polarization as if somehow opting or endorsing the Milieu programming is being framed as if we are grabbing
New Era away from the catchment area with total disregard for the Native programming and
community basis of the school. One of the really excellent things for my family in the last sixteen
years when we had kids her, was the base in the community and the fabulous work that the staff
here has done in terms of -you know - providing for big demographics changes; immigrant
populations; aboriginal people; poverty, they are all trying to deal with these issues. That is
important to people who have their kids here in French Immersion. It’s not that we don't care about
what's going on for the English language program here.
So, I think while I support the Milieu program, what I would like to stress to the Board is that it is
your responsibility to maintain the kind of programs that New Era has made possible as a community
based school. Personally, we live out in the west end. My kids have had to come on the bus to New
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Era. If it’s a question of who has to be displaced. My perception is there would be less disruption if
the French Immersion kids had to be displaced because many of them are being bussed here in the
first place. I guess what I am really trying to say is I’m trying to understand and I think the Board
should be trying to understand - what's been said here by people who have children in the English
language program. So its not an either or situation, I think both French immersion parents have the
right to hope that their children can use, have access that is deemed to be superior in the Milieu
program, but not at the expense of the English language program here in the core. Thank-you.
Evan Yassie
Good evening. My name is Evan – Evan Yassie. I have two boys enrolled at New Era. Having just
moved to Brandon about a year and a half ago, and just settling in and getting children acquainted
with the Brandon area and with the different people in Brandon.
I kind of find it ironic and interesting to see the school board take on this package in terms of what
do you call it – a certain – just one culture – or however you want to put it. I find it ironic that this
political process, because that it what it is – it is an elected body – doing what they are supposed to
do according to their policies and regulations and what have you – and to, you know – push an
interest group in terms of meeting their needs. And yet disrupting the overall general public in terms
of meeting everyone’s needs.
I just – I have been listening all evening with all the interesting points that have come up for the
Board – I would stress what some people have said – defer this matter to another time, another place
and review all the necessary details that you need to review in order to make this project work for
you as a school board. Whether you get elected again for your next term or whatever, at least you are
setting the foundations and establishing the road to assert you ideas that you are pushing forward
right now. That is, I think, the most legitimate road to pursue at this moment. Because to disrupt
what’s currently in place is totally wrong and it’s against the children’s need.
I don't have anything against the French people. I don’t have anything against the English people. As
a matter of fact, I enjoy everybody’s company because we are in a community where according to the
Mission and Vision statements of the school board you are enhancing the Community. You are
bringing the Community together so that everybody is looked after in order for them to feel a part of
the Community. With this political process that is taking place I think it is kinda going against your
Mission and Vision statements. I haven't gone through the website about what the school board is
about. I think maybe you should review some of your rules and regulations and your policies and
mandates and maybe think about all the comments that have been made this evening and for the
next three other days of consultation. Like I said defer it to another time, another place and all the
aspects, the money, the enrollment and the facilities that are going to be required and the
transportation that is going to be involved and what the community feels.
You know – perhaps maybe the French parents with better consultation down the road and with
better understanding of this whole process maybe they do want their own school. You know – that’s
an option that you guys could consider.
But the other option is – you know – is to think about the space. The parents are expressing their
concern about the space that is – you know – hindering some of the teaching capacity of the teachers
because there are just too many students in certain classes. So I believe that space is an issue that
you guys should look at. Really review what you are doing as a school board and really consider
deferring this matter to another time and another place. Go about it with full consultation on all
aspects I just mentioned and what everyone else has mentioned. That way as an aboriginal person
just moving into Brandon with a multicultural background moving into the community, I don’t have
to feel like I am fighting again for my rights, for my children’s rights because the French and English
are arguing again. That’s how I see it. That’s not what I want my kids to grow up and look at or
proceed to understand that this is the way that society runs. And its not, because what New Era is
offering my children right now is diverse community with all kinds of different cultures that are
coming together to celebrate. I have taken part in some of the school programs here and I have
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shared some of my culture with the children and the teachers. Nobody is upset about it. They
welcome me to participate more with the programs that are currently being offered by New Era and
all the other schools for that matter. Thank-you very much.
Tracey Mears
(Spoke in many languages)
My girls both got up and spoke, sorry - my name is Tracey Mears. One got up and said she goes to
Earl Oxford. One got up and said she goes to Betty Gibson. We moved out of the catchment area and
we moved back. When we moved out, I couldn’t get both of them into Earl Oxford, I was told they
were at capacity. They both can’t go there. The one that goes to Betty Gibson, there is a two year
waiting list for them to go into the lunch program. So we got to haul her home for lunch. When she
did come home for lunch, she had to cross Victoria – yes there’s lights. It’s still an insane traffic
situation and getting worse.
I come to New Era School as a parent, grandparent, and as a community elder. I don’t see in your
figures, the cost of replacing all the books upstairs in the library. Every one that has English to it if
you are going to go French milieu and have everything French. I don’t see the cost of replacing
textbooks. I don’t see the cost of replacing curriculum, resource books and that.
Right now it is a space issue more than a totally French or totally English program. My kids and I
include all the kids that come on Wednesday night for Pow Wow night – they come to this school,
they feel included. When Megan went to Earl Oxford it wasn’t “Oh that’s the French Immersion
school – it was that’s the native school” and the sterotypes went with it. When Sara went to Betty
Gibson school the same sterotype followed. I would like to see both programs improved. I would
like to see the space improved.
And if you travelled with any of the sports teams the options to improve the gyms in any one of the
schools in Brandon needs to be looked at not just as an option to displace one or the other or to get a
Milieu school going.
Forcing it in a year's time I think would be irresponsible mistake. It’s not enough time for transition.
It’s not enough time to smooth over ruffled feathers so to speak. And it is not enough time to realize
the impact. One gentlemen got up and said there were 200 kids who go to the Helping Hands
Kitchen. That’s in a month. If you have ever had to use Samaritan House hamper program, you know
how many kids wander in and out of that building. If you have ever had to use the Helping Hands
Soup Kitchen you know there is more than 200 kids wandering in and out in a month.
I decided that when I moved home to Brandon, this is where my kids are going to school because
they are inclusive. It isn’t you need to do this or you need to do that. I can come any day of the week
to this school, sit in the community school’s room and have French kids come and talk to me,
aboriginal kids come and talk to me, Spanish kids come and talk to me. And as a Community Elder I
would hate to see that taken away. I have a nephew who went here to New Era school, he felt
included, he felt part of a family. He now goes to Valleyview and gets bombarded on a daily basis to
join gangs, to misbehave. There are other kids that started here in New Era, went to Valleyview and
their behavior has gone downhill. So, if there is anyway to back up for alittle bit, take a bigger look
and realize what is going to be lost. As well as take a look at your space issue first, that would be
great. Thank-you.
Christy Chorney
Thank-you. My name is Christy Chorney. I have a child that is in Grade 6. When we were initially
deciding where we were going to send our daughter to school we did probably what most of you did
- we weighed the pros and cons. And at that time the con in our mind was the location of the school
and the risk it presented. While in hindsight, this was the best decision we have made. This school
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has a multicultural focus that is second to none. So if we’re looking at French Milieu to enhance the
culture of the students I wouldn't exactly say that that's the only option.
The teachers here are excellent! Thank-you - there is a lot of them in the room – for all you have
done for my daughter. I appreciate it. I just had to get that out there. And many of them have gone
through the French immersion program that was similar to what we're experiencing right now. So
that should tell you something about the quality of the program.
I went through again the pros and cons of all the six options. There are probably a few options that I
would not consider. I do want to continue with the immersion in some form. I am not against Milieu
but there are a couple of options on the list that I would probably reconsider and contemplate
withdrawing my daughter from the Immersion program.
My question – suggestion – comment for the Board is what information are you basing the need for
this decision on? I’ve read in the paper that there has been research. So what is that research? I’m
like somebody else who mentioned the like to make decisions based on facts. It seems pretty closed
lip to me. I would like to know what are we actually dealing with here? What is the evidence so that I
can make a truly informed decision.
If it is about space I don’t understand why Option #5 is in the mix. Anyway, New Era is a great
school. I look forward to your answers. Thank-you.
Delvina Kejick
I have been listening and participating at meetings – oh I’m sorry, my name is Delvina Kejick and I
work here at New Era School. My daughters actually went through the French Immersion program
here at New Era School. There was some real good things about it but there were some struggles for
it also. And it's not so much in the area of the language.
The reason I chose French Immersion was because there was no other option for a second language
within our Division. My personal preference would be to have a First Nations language immersion
within our Division. And I would hope that our Division is headed that way. I’m not convinced that it
is right now – but I believe in the programming and the amount of community organization,
community people, community parents, statistics, which everybody seems to love in regards to the
importance of identity and what are the things that affect our kids and our community identity would
all support something like that happening. I believe with our community schools grant, I believe
with our BSAP, I believe that that is possible. Those are programs we have had running at New Era
here for a number of years already and there has been some growth in the involvement of parents
and the involvement of community members, and the involvement of businesses and organizations
on a consistent level. And I believe that that consistency of involvement in the growing of that gives
root to the basis of a different kind of school - that meets some of the new needs that are coming to
our community.
My kids have traveled numerous places with me. With the advantage of having French, we went to
Rawanda a year and a half ago. My daughters interpreted and did very well. But we shared from our
First Nations story of our experience in Canada and colonization and everything else, including our
dancing. Including, the loss of language. But including of those things coming back and being birthed
again. One of the things that I always say and I made a presentation to our school board is that North
America is “browning up” and I believe that our schools and the programs that we have need to start
showing that in an academic level, at a community based level and that it would show itself in the
classroom.
One of the things that I will say very adamantly is that I am against removing the English program
from this area. I know that there is a numbers issue and that we are well outnumbered. And that is a
hard thing. Tonight most of the families that are from our English program left because they don't
understand what's going on. I’m questioning why there is not interpreters here when we have a
mandate? We got some interpreters but it is very difficult for them to keep up. That is something
that we are working on in our community schools. It is something like two steps forward one step
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back - three steps forward and four steps back. This decision to remove our English program and I
say remove because that is what you are doing.
This is where the people live. This is their home school. There is lots of opportunity for after school,
for evenings, for weekends that will end up being lost. The relationships that we have built with our
community members based on the programs I believe will be lost. Those are things that have taken
years to grow and not just English but our French population of our school also. Our school has a
very good reputation and I am very proud from both sides of it. Because, even though we aren’t often
called and I have heard it from many many many people’s groups - the Indian School. Yes the larger
population is the French school, but to me I’m proud I am able to say that. Because to me that shows
acceptance. That shows a willingness for us to grow and I really, really want to be able to sit down. I
want some of those questions to be able to be asked to our new immigrant families, to our First
Nations, to our core area people, to those single parents.
I am a single parent of seven kids and they all went through this school division. Some really well,
some not so well. But I believe if there was more of a diverse programming that was available for my
kids I would have had higher success for each of my kids. We don’t have that huge amount of
diversity in our programming and I believe that the core area, New Era, the programs and the
location of our school is something that is going to benefit that. I would love to have the English
program - there's lots of things that are going on that I can’t even talk about and some of them are
good and some of them are not so good and some of them have failed. But some of them, I believe, are
growing and growing because we have been very consistent in what we area trying to accomplish. So
that I guess that is just what I am wanting to say that by removing our English programming I believe
you are removing a larger hope. I believe you are removing root that has been growing here. The
numbers are still the issue. But by doing that, I believe you area removing a root and something
really hopeful that can be very, very good for as a template for the whole school division. Thank-you.
Pearl Smith
My name is Pearl Smith and I thank you for this opportunity to speak.
I have a couple of questions directly for the board today I would like to see answers for. One
question is – Why is there not an option to go with no Milieu school? Where are the options for the
space if there is no Milieu school? What are those options looking like? Or is that decision already
made? Because according to this form its just a motion, the same as the other options. Just a motion.
We don’t need a Milieu school. We don’t know the results. All of them said the French immersion
program is working wonderfully. Why are you trying to fix something that is working so well? It’s
not what we need. We don’t need separatism. And that’s what that comes to. It comes to separatism.
It comes to bigotry. It comes to prejudice. We want inclusiveness. We want diversity. We want
multiculturalism. That’s what we want in our City. All over our City – for everyone.
Where is the option to take the grade 7 and 8’s so there is more space here for French Immersion and
make another French Immersion school. How come that is not an option? I want to see options for
no milieu to address the space. Thank-you.
Holly Dewitt
Hi, my name is Holly Dewitt. I’ve got a Grade 3 boy in the English program and my daughter should
be starting next fall I believe it is she should start. I would like to see you guys put French into all the
schools. If you take all the French and put them in one single school you are just saying “Look French
is different, French is better”. If you have French in all of the schools, then maybe more of the kids
will go into French. You want French to be through the whole school system, put it in all the schools.
They’ve got drumming. They’ve got all sorts of things. They have a class for the adults at night to
learn English. Or they may not have that quite yet. But they are working on it. We’ve got so many
different cultures moving into Brandon right now. Why not diversify all of them. Spread the kids
out to where they need to be. Maybe open up Fleming again. Well you’ve already got people in
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Fleming. But open up another school and keep it all equal so all the kids can go to school in their
area and don’t have to be bussed to any where.
That’s where this whole thing is going. You want to take all the French kids and put them in one
school and have them immersed in French. What does that tell them? It tells them – yeah here is
French. You have a choice French or English. If you go to English you will probably learn a whole lot
of other languages too. If you stick them in French do you honestly think those kids are going to
learn Spanish, Ojibway, Cree, and all the other languages they have been learning right now? The
kids are learning French, Ojibway, Cree, English all in one English classroom. And in the French
classrooms, if they don’t quite hear it, they hear it from other kids in the hallways. They hear all sorts
of different languages.
Get a grip! It’s 2009! We don’t need just one other language. We need like 20! You guys are trying to
separate us into French and English. I’m sorry it’s not just French and English anymore. Yes French
is an awesome language. It’s our second language and I can’t speak a lick of it. My one brother is
fluent in French. He went to Neelin High School and we never had any Milieu school. He plodded
through all that in O’Kelly and into Neelin and he can still speak both languages – very well actually.
And my other brother can speak two.
I chose to go the other way. I can’t speak a lick of it. I considered putting my son into French
Immersion but then I thought “Gee, how am I going to help him with his homework”. If you do all the
Milieu stuff it will all be in French. I have seen the Grade - the stuff the kids bring home from French
class. I look at my friend’s parents and ask them how do you help them with their homework? “I
don’t!” They can’t help them with their homework sometimes because it is all in French. I’m sorry
but I mean we want equality. Treat us all equal. You guys made this decision for a French school on
your own. I’m an English parent at this school and I didn’t hear about it until after it already sounded
like – “Oh my gosh – I’m going to have to move my kid from this school!” I live half a block away. You
guys stick my kid on a bus, I won’t be able to get my kid to school in the morning. Thank-you.
Berne Joyal
My name is Berne Joyal I am a teacher here at New Era School – Ecole New Era. Just a few
clarifications I would like to mention some people mentioned tonight. First of all, some of the terms
that are used – “French Parents” – most of the parents I'd say 90% of the parents are English and
have chosen French immersion. Therefore yes they do not communicate in French when they have
to see me. I will talk to them in English. I will accommodate and help the parents of course - it's my
job also.
Also the interviews – I think one the gentlemen got mixed up with the Milieu Immersion school and
the DSFM which is the Division Scolaire Francophone Manitobain school division. That’s not to be
confused with Milieu Immersion school. There is a paragraph here that says “ this environment
results from the use of French as the language of administration and internal communication as well
as the language of communication between teachers and students. We do not talk about parents here
and we don't say no we can’t have the interviews with the parents. It goes against what immersion
is.
We understand that the parents do not - on the majority – do not understand French. We will speak
to them in English.
One last thing I would just like to say and this is a personal note – sometimes I feel it is a lose, lose,
lose situation. No matter what happens – if you ask - well okay – we’ll move to a different school – to
Neelin. Well we’re moving the Neelin students out. If we’re building a new school for the French
immersion students - how come the French immersion students get it? Unfortunately, I find there is
a lot of negativity. It's frustrating abit. I’ve lived thru this many a time being French and living in
French towns and an area of Winnipeg. This is not new for me. I still find it frustrating and was
hoping that English is the majority language in this city - we understand that I believe there is about
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18 schools in Brandon. It would be nice to accommodate some students to use the French Immersion
as a possibility. Thank-you very much.
Darryl Ramage
Hello, my name is Darryl Ramage. I have a child going to Kindergarten and one in Grade 5 and there
have been a lot of Grade 5 parents up her and Ramona is one of them. I came here with an open mind
and wanted to listen to alot things. And I feel like I'm even more confused than I was before.
Milieu may well be a good idea for the French students and maybe they would do better. But right
now my Grade 5 daughter does very well in French. We went to the Lt. Governor’s Winter Festival –
we walked into the French Canadian one. One of the hosts started to talking in French to her, he
turned to me and started talking in French to me. I said “Whoa, whoa, whoa – I don’t speak French”.
He said “Really, well your daughter speaks very well – her accent is perfect”. We're in the Health
Science Center in Winnipeg and there was a little girl playing on the floor – Kera started playing with
her and talking to her and her family in French. She is doing very well.
My older daughter also went here quite a few years ago when they were really strict about speaking
French at recess and in the hallways and it seemed to create a real animosity between the English
and the French students. I would hate to see that happen because I really like this school. This is an
awesome school the way it is. The family fun nights, the drumming that my little guy enjoys, the
whole mix of this school is really, really wonderful.
I also have some questions about the budget. Not that I want to go into it that deep, but as a question
to the Board – Where did the budget dollars come from? I work in the construction industry and
we often see the reality of buildings costs surpass some preliminary budgets to an extreme
sometimes. Budgets are budgets.
With the space issue if we can possibly make this work the way it is now – to me that would be ideal.
I don’t know if that would work or not. My kids are bussed to school right now – they can bus
anywhere. The core area kids – I realize there is not enough kids to fill this school if there was only
them and that is a real problem - but I would hate to see them move. Like I said my kids are being
bussed so they can go anywhere. That’s really all I had to say I just wanted to say those few things.
Thank-you.
Eddie Hudson
I’m Eddie Hudson. I’m a Brandon university student. And looking for summer jobs over the course of
a summer, the first thing that makes the deciding factor on whether you get the job or not is “are you
bilingual?” It’s a simple as that. If you want a job that pays minimum wage don’t be bilingual. If you
want a job that pays $13.00 an hour without a university education be bilingual. And I think that's
like a great idea for future. Like we have been talking about the right here and now. And when it
comes to education, my opinion, being a student, we are not - education has nothing to do with here
and now – it’s about the future. So if you are having trouble with money at the moment – wouldn’t
you want your child not to have trouble with money – ever? I’m just curious. That is just one issue I
wanted to bring up.
The other thing that came to mine is the distance in walking to school. I've heard the story million
times from my parents and from my grandparents, I’m just curious, how many of you guys have
heard the story – raise your hands – like “when I was your age I walked to school five miles, in three
feet of snow, in my grandfather’s pj’s”. Now raise your hands and tell me if you have heard this story
with any regret at all? None of them. They love that story! I love that story! I walked a long ways
and my parents made me walk that every day – in 50 below weather. I don’t mind. I have an
education. I’m at Brandon University now and I’m going to be a teacher. So if you don’t want me
teaching you student just make sure you look. So that’s my point and have a nice night.
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Ramona Coey
Thank-you Eddie and Happy Birthday.
Tonight was the first of four community consultations the Board of Trustees will be engaging. As
well as two staff consultations. The Board’s role this evening was not to debate or defend our
decision to this point but to seek advice and collect information. The goals of the consultation
process are first to involve our community in this decision making process by maximizing your voice
through your opportunity to be heard. Second, to maximize the responsibility of the Board to attend
to community concerns. And third and most importantly to maximize the educational opportunity of
our children by educating ourselves on every aspect of this subject.
Thank-you for becoming involved in this important community concern. Our responsibilities as
Trustees is now to give serious consideration to the points you have raised here this evening. We
must apply our intimate level of knowledge our divisional characteristics and educational benefits to
what we have learned. We must recognize unsubstantiated claims for what they are. Embrace the
work, new information and options presented. And work through to a solution that will maximize
student achievement. If you have presented a question here tonight that was unanswered - we will
be formulating a formal response and communicating that publicly through a bulletin at a future
Board meeting. Please take the time to complete the questionnaire you receive this evening and
leave it with Mrs. Bailey. Following the completion of the consultation process all data will be in
assembled into a final consultation report. This report with all at the relevant information will be
presented to the Board through the Facilities and Transportation Committee this spring for
consideration. Thank-you to the New Era staff and students as well as Sheri Bailey for organizing this
event. Thank-you to Look Music and Eddie for providing our sound system. And thank-you for being
her this evening listening to and sharing your thoughts. We are here to give consideration to these
issues and we appreciate your participation. Thank-you.
Present: G. Buri, P. Bartlette, R. Coey, B. Jolly, D. Karnes, B. Mayes, J. Murray, M. Snelling.
Regrets: L. Ross
Attendance: Approximately 160-175 people
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New Era Survey Sheets: Feedback
I believe the English track is detrimental to the progress of true French "immersion" and milieu is the
best way to go. I have put my children in French learning for a reason and feel that having dual
tracks removes opportunity for their progression.
I strongly disagree with our English children being booted out of their school and transferred to
other schools. This whole situation is steam rolling our children and it's just not right!! Maybe think
of how you are affecting all children, not just the French children.
I strongly disagree with our public school Board and our tax payer dollars financing any French
milieu school. The costing summary presented has raised a few questions for me as I know that the
figures are incorrect. The best way to save money and our tax money is to not have a French milieu
school at all!
First and foremost, New Era is full and that should be addressed first. Once addressed, then French
milieu should be considered. Transporting English students to other schools would ensure they get
safely there! Breakfast and lunch programs could be set up at these schools. Decisions need to be
made in a fiscally responsible manner! Elementary students should not be with high school students.
See attached document.
New Era is a CORE AREA school. Many nations under one roof, facilitating ALL cultures not just
French and English. The proposal to do this at New Era will cause a generation of hurt instead of
healing the wounds that are already dividing the whole city.
The development of a French milieu program within the BSD is a great thing for those who will
utilize it. However the proposed implementation of the program systemically discriminates our
communities most vulnerable population. As a community member grown-up and living in Rosser
ward, I have physically seen the great things that this community school has done for the families in
this neighbourhood.
Could you not fix up Fleming School and use it for French? Leave the school systems as they are. We
don't need a separate school for French. If already building a new school, use it for the French
students.
No French milieu school in catchment area schools.
As a parent of a French Immersion, I would like to remind the school trustees that "you are entrusted
with providing the best education for all Brandon School Division students" (a quote from one of the
speakers). Life is not static, life is about growth and change. Unfortunately that also can involve
challenges and difficult decisions. There is a reasonable option that is financially feasible that solves
the space and milieu issue at New Era. The funds saved choosing this option could go to supporting
the students and programs that may potentially be moved. (Personal pick-up for students needing to
walk extra blocks, as example.) New Era is beyond its capacity - how will music and gym teachers
meet curriculum guidelines next year? I feel that this issue has been mishandled by the school
trustees. There were better ways to work out this challenge then letting it turn into the media circus
it became.
In these economically challenging times, rushing through this project is not necessarily a priority. I
think French Immersion at New Era is working - overcrowding is an issue to examine. (Perhaps four
French Immersion Kindergarten classes is unrealistic, yet I'm not sure how to deal with that).
Enrichment programs other than French Immersion? i.e. sports based school where math is from
sports page, science - water freezing on a hockey rink. Who won the Stanley Cup when Pearson was
PM? Music - Earl Oxford using music ed. students from Brandon U. Geek - computer based; math
into spreadsheets; art - flash animations? English focus - extraordinary library; reading assistance;
origins of English words. Canadian equal rights for both French and English students.
As you know 50% of New Era is Aboriginal, and only 10% is French. So why change New Era into a
French school when there is only 10% of the population?
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There is a reason why that anyone at New Era School should have to leave or be relocated to a new
school. They're jobs and long time friendships at stake.
I think things are just fine the way they are - after all we are not a French speaking community. If we
are going into a recession how much more do you plan on raising our taxes? 7% is too much now.
You put the cart before the horse. What great need is there for this milieu? Have you thought of the
English stream students being totally disrupted? What about their rich and cultural environment?
Will you in the future consider a Chinese milieu and Spanish milieu school? The present system has
worked well for many years. Please consider other students besides those who will further become
elite - are all students not equal?
The small children moving out of their community is my biggest concern. I was impressed with the
speakers who brought out the idea of how N.B. it was for the parents as well. Please leave as is. Cost
is another N.B. point.
I have no problem with milieu but…take an older building that is empty now in the core area and
transform it into an English school (ex. Church on 11th and Lorne is empty has a gym and a kitchen).
Or add onto New Era. When ACC is empty move New Era there or Crocus (put New Era in Crocus)
will still be cheaper than a brand new building. 70-80% of French Immersion parents, DO NOT know
French most New Era students are now bussed - does it matter where they get bussed to?
What kind of people are we to teach segregation to our children and to say French is better than
English or other languages? My child is in French Immersion to learn a second language not to be
taught that one type of person is better than another. This is expensive and not thought out. The
options are not sensible.
My concern is not with the Immersion program but rather the space concerns with the growing
enrolment at New Era. I am pleased with the education being provided at New Era but worry that
the real issues are being confused. New Era's main problem is the growing numbers not it's quality.
My concern is space. I like the dual track program but space is a problem - this needs to be fixed. We
enjoy the multicultural programs. Find a way to make more space - portable classrooms for 7 and 8?
As I am against the proposed French milieu program, I haven't answered the other questions.
I support the milieu because it will give our students a greater opportunity to succeed.
I believe that the current French Immersion program is excellent and does not need change. I also
feel that the dual track English/French is very positive for the community and catchment area. I
think more time needs to be taken before displacing children and the ramifications of such an action.
The plan is ill-considered and poorly justified. It should be rescinded.
Idea #1 - bus the 40 English kids to another school. #2 - Change English to K-4 or K-5 and bus older
siblings. This school is very crowded, space is needed ASAP within 1-2 years. Gym classes are tripled
with no air conditioning cramped 100 year old classrooms. Space is my utmost concern, not the
milieu. There are more French Immersion (walking kids) in the core area than English.
Staffing/recruitment is another concern - very difficult to find teachers in French Immersion now.
The first concern must be QUALITY of education for both the small English population and the
growing French Immersion population. As well, the misinformation about MILIEU must be
corrected. This issue is dividing the community. Multiculturalism must be maintained in the milieu
school. As well, the teacher MUST be of the highest caliber re: spoken French. This is not always the
case! (Especially at Neelin.)
We're talking milieu but look at the space concerns here at New Era - 3 classrooms in the gym at
once?! There are not enough French teachers. These are the real concerns - or should be - can't find
French teachers to hire!
Language is an investment no matter what language - it could be French or English. The more
language our students know the better they can serve their community in the future.
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Brandon School Division
The French program is growing and needs a larger building. Do whatever you need to make it so.
Space - French program - needs more. Grandfather the English out. Half of the English kids transfer
out yearly anyway.
Space! Kids can cope if we can teach them how. Our grandparents wanted to walk long distances to
get to school.
Options 1 and 2 - I do not want my young child attending the same school as 17, 18, 19 year old
young adults. Inclusion for Life Skills students - non existent if Neelin becomes French milieu. I
would consider removing my children from the French Immersion/milieu program if they are moved
to Neelin. I have to weigh the safety of my children versus the influence of much older young adults.
I can't separate the two as they are equally influencing on any decision I make. Someone suggested a
7th option of building a community school for the English track students. It is an excellent option and
you should consider it.
The programming at New Era and Neelin are currently adequate at best. By strengthening the
Immersion program via French milieu, you reduce the risk of a watered down program. At a diverse
population of 50,000 in Brandon and area, French milieu program should be expected. Any new
migration of residents would expect it.
There exists too large a gap between Francophone programming and immersion in Manitoba. The
DSFM will not soften their programming so we must strengthen ours.
Do not enhance French Immersion. It is not a need in our division. The students have great success
already. However, EDI scores in English are some of the lowest in the division! Not to mention
separating core area kids from the environment, teachers, friends and services!
As a Francophone parent, I am concerned that the current Immersion program may not be sufficient
to help me instil a love of French Canadian language, cultural and heritage in my two children. I fully
support a French milieu school because it will ensure fullest immersion/quality/success possible. As
a taxpayer and compassionate person, I suggest that Option 2 and 3 are best. Please do not give up
on the milieu school initiative and the parents who are trying to counteract as simulation in a
minority situation. The same milieu concept exists in Quebec (for English), NB and ON. It would be a
shame not to reciprocate. One French school out of Brandon's dozen or so schools should not be an
unrealistic expectation for citizens.
We are planning to send our children to French Immersion - my oldest son will attend Kindergarten
in two years. I am concerned because it is imperative to have a good start in school. It is necessary to
resolve this issue quickly as the current situation (space) is hurting both sides (French, music, gym).
Unfortunately, the quick solution is making New Era a French milieu school and moving the English
program. I am empathetic to those families and the issue of a community school, but Option 3 seems
to be the only viable option. If there was a place for the French milieu school to move immediately I
would fully support that solution.
I also really strongly agree with building a new school for the English catchment students so that they
are not displaced but not on the same site as New Era. This would be a mistake because it would
diminish the yard space at New Era.
Could we not grandfather the existing English students?
New Era has only 130 English students - not enough to keep it open just for the English students.
This has unfortunately become a socio-economic issue - it needs to be about our kids and their
education.
Placing grade 7-8 students at Neelin, an adult environment, is ridiculous.
I am for global connecting not segregation. You are going backwards not forwards. You are
promoting racism. New Era needs to become a K-6 bilingual (English and French) school.
Please don't rush!! Carefully consider the time and costs.
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Separation??? It is 2009.
Merge all cultures. Do not separate. "Look" at what our Reserve system did!
I do not want to see a new school built when we have so much space in our current schools. I believe
that a French milieu school is a great opportunity to improve and strengthen the French Immersion
program in Brandon School Division. Do not cap French Immersion kindergarten entry.
My biggest concern is the removal of core area students. They need to remain in their area where
they have access to their community! I support New Era becoming a full-fledge community school
with inclusion of many services for core area residents.
Moving the community schools program to another school would strengthen the English program in
that school. Research in brain development supports a French milieu as being the best method of
providing an Immersion program. Please don't lose sight of this. Growth of Immersion program lack of space. Please remember that Immersion children also have to walk to attend if they lie within
1.6 or 2.4 kms. Some must walk from past 18th Street.
We are concerned about academic success of our students in English programming. My concerns are
my son's education will suffer to be moved from his catchment area and possible loss of resource
time that he currently utilizes. I don't believe a child should ever have such a loss as education is the
foundation for life.
Segregation is not the answer! Are you promoting racism? Embrace all cultures!
Option 7 - Leave as is. We value the interaction with other non-French speaking staff and students.
Where does the extra money come from to pay for two separate administrators? Milieu school will
isolate kids for exposure to other cultures, physical and mental abilities (and mostly other color and
race). My child learns tolerance and acceptance every day at New Era as it is now. Add portable
trailers to increase space until permanent additions and renovations can be made to existing school.
My overall impression of tonight's discussion was to look at space issues on this school, but leave it
basically as it is. Most parents of French Immersion kids are not French speaking, but are very
satisfied with their kids development in French.
Lease the "empty" Convergys building for K-6 English, creating a partnership with YMCA for use of
gym space and programming. Alternate high school program could also be located here. EAL
programming could also be centered here. The school is full and Option 3 is cost effective and
benefits the greatest number of students of all classes (because there are all classes in French
Immersion).
Follow up conflict of interest re: Ramona Coey and publish the information. Immersion program is
working - why change with the added proposed monies attached.? Tax payers are not willing to pay
more tax dollars at this economic time.
Presenting this volume of information at the time of Consultation makes it impossible to familiarize
oneself with the materials. Milieu at one time requires 1 of 2 fluent parents, if this is still the case
many present students won't qualify. Also many English and French students are barley capable of
speaking English well, the levels of English are so low BU and other universities have had to drop the
English proficiency exam as too many could not pass it. If we are unable to do one well why would
we think trying two will go well?
Fact 1 - New Era is beyond capacity. Solution to over population would be to celebrate the growing
French Immersion program and develop a milieu to allow these students to continue to grow and be
allowed the best programming available. The English program at New Era has the highest student
ability rate - if the catchment area were to change wouldn't that help the 134 children from changing
schools throughout the year have more stability and benefits?
This is a space issue that needs to be addressed promptly because both programs are suffering. I
believe a population needs to move. The most practical is Option 3. New Era is the only facility able
to house the current French Immersion population and the most fiscally responsible. I do support
the milieu program.
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Brandon School Division
Research shows that language development is enhanced in a milieu setting. Please do not separate
the English-French Immersion students within the building - it will only foster resentment and an "us
vs. them" mentality. Putting K-12 in one school will greatly reduce the number of students who
continue in the French Immersion program due to reduced options. It is also not a great solution for
the Life Skills program - further marginalizing these students.
I fully support a French Immersion milieu school because research shows students language
acquisition is much stronger in a milieu setting vs. a dual-track environment.
This survey should have been more detailed. There should have been questions asking who is in
support of the milieu program period. How many parents will pull their children from the French
program because of the change? What about the children who have difficulties with school/learning.
How can you determine if the problem is a French / English issue? If French is determined the
problem, then you must not only pull that child from French but send them to another school, which
can be very traumatized.
Milieu - single track. Excellence is the priority. Changes must be made, make them.
Could have printed cost projections along with the options in the newspaper. People cannot make an
informed decision without being able to study these projections. Why weren't new gyms, science
rooms, computer room renovations, etc. included? You are being dishonest in your information to us
- incomplete. Strongly feel that French Immersion parents are better able to move than the largely
immigrant and single parent English stream. Think the multiculturalism here has been great. If went
to choice of older French Immersion students going to Neelin would need separate recess and lunch
times for safety.
Displacing core area students will not be as bad as people think. Let's bus them if them walking is an
issue.
Build a new English school in the New Era catchment area. Could this be an option?
I don't oppose milieu, I support the research and I support the idea. However, I do not support it if a
catchment area school is at risk of being displaced. I am strongly opposed to displacing the English
population - perhaps a new English school? I see a new French school proposed - where is the
alternative for a new English speaking school? Since the population is smaller, smaller equals
cheaper. God forbid the English population get a new school....but the French might???!
I feel it is difficult to make some of the choices presented as I believe that there may be other
unexplored options that could be considered in order to provide the best education opportunities for
all students. We do support the philosophy and idea of a milieu program for our children. We want
what is the best possible French education for my children. Option 3 would definitely provide a
solution to the population concern as well, so it seems to be the most feasible option at this time. I do
hope that whatever decision is made that all children are considered and accommodations made to
provide the best education - English or French.
I support the establishment of a French milieu program as it would provide my children with the best
possible French education. I believe that the space issue needs to be resolved first before
implementing the milieu program.
This is a space issue, not a French issue. An immersion school is a better option instead of
segregating students. The current six options are not good enough. Not every angle has been
considered but with everything on this decision there is a short sightedness and act instantly without
any future thought involved.
I have a child in each program. Option 1 leaves me having to explain why they are not allowed to
speak to each other during school hours. If Option 3 comes into play, my English child will be sent to
another school and I will regretfully have to take my FI child out of the program and he will be sent
with him. There is already one school in the core area with restrictions (St. Augustine's) do we really
need two schools unavailable to the children in the catchment area?
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You have a very difficult decision ahead of you that I am very glad I don't have to make - that is why I
vote and elected you. Please consider the strides New Era has made in its community and what
impacts this may have on already "disadvantaged" children. However I also want the best for my FI
child and think a milieu is a wonderful educational opportunity I would take advantage of.
I would like to be convinced that my child's education is somehow of less quality because she hears
English during the day before I will support this treat of the week. I wish that I had more explanation
of what exactly "milieu" means for my children instead of asking me where I want it located.
Keep milieu program (K-8) at New Era. Re-locate English program to Convergys (old library). Would
keep re-location distance to a minimum and lots would be kept lower because a building for a school
already exists.
The Board has deemed a milieu school the best way to teach French Immersion and we want the best
education for our children.
If a group of students must be displaced, I believe it makes sense to displace the least number of
students - in today's society (whether we like it or not) it all comes down to numbers and dollars. I
trust that the Trustees will make the most sensible decision and I will support whatever it may be.
I do not believe that anything is broken at New Era. Space is the issue. I do not like any of the six
options. My FI children have received a good education at New Era and Neelin. Staffing is a continual
issue. There are not enough qualified French teachers in MB and many do not want to work in
Brandon. What we lose in French academics, we are currently gaining in our multi-cultural building.
As a FI parent, we "choose" to bus our children. I do not believe the Board should displace
community school students. I want my children to be the best human social beings they can be; their
language skills can always be improved as needed. Please study this carefully - it is creating divisions
among city of Brandon residents. Don't rush!
No students should be displaced from any school to accommodate one program.
Note: English track students don't always have proper clothing to walk long distances. Children in
existing schools must not be displaced to other schools in order to accommodate the Immersion
students. Please deal with the space issue in the best way possible. Perhaps put French milieu on the
"back burner". Take it slow and steady to do it right.
Please consider a third option - leave "as is"!!
Proceed with Option 3 - improved French education, cost effective, equitable, necessary, market the
benefits of French Immersion to the community (local).
It's too bad that the understanding of most people is that the decision for a French milieu program is
already made. It needs to be made clear that this is not true. French Immersion, as it is, works very
well as stated by many immersion parents and students. I am a strong supporter of French
Immersion. If it needs to be strengthened that can happen within the present format. The space
issue is paramount. There is no need to be other options sought and presented. What about using
some of the empty buildings downtown if we need more space? I don't want to see separatism or
prejudice supported. I want diversity and multi-culturalism.
I am 11 and I find that most kids in my grade love the culture (Métis, etc.). I started a random survey,
French milieu or keep as is and 18/18 want to keep it as it is. I think the students of New Era should
have a say in the design. Merci/thanks
The "Community School" and BSSAP programming should be moved to another English school so
that more core area students can benefit from this wonderful concept. I have seen the positive it has
brought the community, but Brandon is not that big! Betty Gibson is not that far away, for example.
The space issue must be dealt with as it is detrimental to all students at the moment. French milieu is
what I want to see the French Immersion program move toward.
Dealing with the space problem at New Era is the biggest issue but still considering both the French
and English programs. Construction of a new, smaller English school in the core area would be the
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Brandon School Division
best solution in considering everyone's interests. Option 6 would be great but probably leave New
Era under utilized given the number of English students currently enrolled. Option 3 - good for
milieu program but not fair to displace English students from their catchment area.
Maybe house a school in catchment area other than New Era i.e. Convergys building. What about
grandfathering English kids so that they have option to more progress there. Look at other school
divisions to see how i.e. Dauphin 30 years ago. Do not penalize children in French Immersion
because we live where we live either. The best options is what we want - we want milieu for our
children. FI is open to all. Space is an issue now - use as an opportunity for positive change as
difficult decisions need to be made now regarding space anyway make it positive.
I support the French milieu program. I am a strong advocate for the opportunity to learn a second
language and if there is an opportunity for the current program to be better I want that for my four
children. The fact that children are going to be displaced is unfortunate but a reality and not
something anyone would want for children - any children. This is a spacing issue and should be a
separate issue.
Strongly feel that it will hurt all persons involved. It is sad that a Trustee can bring their own
personal agenda and get as far as they have without being asked to step aside as a Trustee. Be honest
on why the French milieu is being presented.
K-4 at New Era, 5-8 elsewhere and 9-12 at Neelin. These students are far more mobile and can adapt
more easily. This school is a gem that can not be restarted elsewhere easily.
Taking a community school out of a community destroys the community!
Where does New Era "fit into" Option 4? It is not listed. Option 4 is the best option if funding already
approved. Communicate, communicate, communicate!
Continue with present situation but reduce size of student body by transferring Grade 7 and 8. Space
seems to be the largest problem. The costs must be a high priority. This school division has had huge
increases in their budgets over the past 10 years or so. You must listen to the parents and the tax
payers.
There are two issues at play here - an overcrowding issue and a programming issue. The frustrations
stem from the Board's constant waffling on which solution solve which problems. Option 7 - why not
keep FI at New Era and create the French milieu school at Island Labes if it's so important to a select
few parents? If the current program is substandard - why year after year do parent information
nights for kindergarten parents emphasize the success of New Era's current program? Why are
parents of two year olds calling the school saying "how do we get our kids in come three years'
time?" I did not choose a culture for my children. I chose a program that would slow down two
exceedingly bright children who will not likely skip a grade in this day and age, but if left in a singlelanguage program, are likely to languish in later years due to lack of interest or adequate challenge.
If there is such strong support for both programs, keep FI as a dual-track program at New Era - create
a milieu at a west or south end school. As other parents have suggested, figure out the costs later.
I don't think it is effective to promote "separation" in the school ground. This is where we are now. If
we are looking at making a change for the better then we should focus total immersion.
Option 6 at this point is the only viable and far-reaching option! (seeing into the future) I believe we
need to understand what a truly educational and holistic school experience should and can be. Is it
based on language experience only? Is it based on what we can learn from each other, teach other
(acceptance, tolerance, sharing, culture, etc.) New Era exists as a template to what we can achieve this school needs to continue growing in the community school it is meant to be. The space issue is
the number one issue of importance that needs to be dealt with but not at the expense of losing the
cultural programming that currently exists and not at the expense of expanding classroom sizes at
the other schools! Please stop the madness!!
I prefer Option 3 with one modification - English students transferred to a new school in the
downtown area for example in the Convergys building (with extensive renovations and possibly use
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the YMCA gym for physical education programming). A new school for the English kids that has
special programming for at risk kids for EAL students would be cheaper than a new school for the
French Immersion population.
I'm not yet convinced that a switch to a milieu type school is the way to go. So far, I am happy with
the French instruction and exposure that my child is receiving. I like the idea of interaction of
children from different cultures and socio economic backgrounds. I wish there was more interaction
between the English and FI students. I want my child to learn as much French and gain as much
fluency in French as possible, so if I was convinced milieu would be the way to go, I'd vote for it. But
not a K-12 school and not at the expense of core area catchment students.
Remain status quo!
Would like the school to remain as is.
I agree that Brandon would benefit from having a French only school. But I don't agree in uprooting
students from an already existing school. Leave New Era an English school. It's the only core area
school.
Don't think any changes should be made, the school has been very successful in the way it has
operated since the beginning.
New Era continues to offer French for K-8 but not separating them from the English students. Or
have New Era completely French adding 9-12 senior years.
Completely disagree with French School/program.
Add on to school so there is no need to move kids.
Add on to school. Don't move kids!
I don't want the school to change to French because I have friends in French and English class.
My brother, sister and I go to New Era School. We don't want to be split up into different school. And
we like it the way it is there goes to be more option then the ones you have listed.
New Era should stay the way it is, or make another school for French Immersion program.
Or spend money and fix up Fleming for French milieu. The families of Brandon who call New Era
home for school and community/summer activities need their "community" to stay together. Thank
you.
There are a lot of different languages within the city limits, are there going to be schools built for
each language?
My kids have gone to at least six other schools and out of all of them New Era has proven to be the
best, family oriented school. Great curriculums and awesome T.A.'s to help my kids in their studies;
which has proved to help a tremendous amount in the way of my kids are learning and
understanding their school work. They have been there three too many changes. I want my kids to
remain at New Era English.
To take away the English program would be devastating to the core area of Brandon. The kids
depend on programs put on by New Era. If this becomes a milieu school you would have to build a
new school in a couple of years anyway. Then what would be done with this wonderful school? Also
can you guarantee me that my children would be put into the same school?
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New Era - become preschool (ELC) to grade 8 - French K-4 remain. Grades 5-8 be bussed to Fleming.
Neelin - remain the same.
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Additional Comments on Survey Sheets
Don't want this school
Taxpayer and a voter. I am on the Community Schools Board.
Option 4 - not enough room - current French immersion is greater than 400 students.
I am a Community Elder/Grandparent/Parent
Option 1 - French Grade 9 will have advantage over English. Option 2 - Five year olds with 18 year
olds? No! What happens to IB program at Neelin? Option 3 - Displace English students because
French students are more important? Option 4 - Displace English students because French students
are more important? Option 5 - Growth? 90 students wanted French 2008. Option 6 - too many
taxes.
Option 1 - why separate? Option 5 - why separate?
Leave things alone!
Option 5 - this would be horrible.
Option 6 - as a long term solution possibly.
Option 6 - This is not a viable option at this time but possibly in the future.
This has been handled badly and backward!
Option 4 - I do not understand this option. Option 6 - Is this honestly even an option?
Timing depends on solution ASAP with planning and delegation. Option 1 - not conducive to positive
educational environment. Option 4 - too confusing and not likely or timely enough. Option 5 - not
conducive to positive educational atmosphere. Option 6 - not likely but ideal!! Not timely enough.
Timing - this really depends if the spacing issue is resolved. Option 6 - if this is a practical and viable
option!
French milieu to my understanding is contrary to dual track.
Option 1 - I would withdraw from French Immersion program. Option 2 - I would consider
withdrawing my child from FI program. Option 4 - New Era? Option 5 - We need to model
integration not segregation to reflect the world we live in. Option 6 - This is not fiscally responsible
option.
Timing - budget must be considered before any implementation of costly changes. During this
economic recession is not the time to implement any costly changes.
I am strongly in favor of a French milieu school and it does not matter where it is located. Over!
Timing - where ever is available. I will leave it up to the Board. Option 2 - not optimal to mix a 12
year old with an 18 or 19 year old.
Option 1 - don't want tow administrators and physical separation like apartheid and total waste of
money. Option 5 - there isn't enough space for this.
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Public Consultation #2
Neelin April 16, 2009
Neelin Transcript
George Buri
Welcome and Opening Remarks including purpose and outcomes of meetings.
Doug Karnes
Overview Presentation of Proposed School – boundary and catchment changes.
Dr. D. Michaels
Overview of rules and etiquette public will follow for open mike.
Speakers
Nicole Olson
I thank-you in advance for listening to my opinions and giving me the opportunity to speak.
On a starting note, I would just like to say I am very satisfied with New Era as a dual track French
Immersion school. My daughter is excited about learning French and amazes us with what she has
learned thus far. She also has the opportunity to learn about other cultures at New Era and not just
the French one. I would be disappointed to see that opportunity leave.
After careful consideration my husband and I do not feel that we would support a change to a French
Milieu school. Saying this, we know that space is an issue whether or not there is a change and
decision regarding the location. There will still likely need to be made some changes made sometime
soon.
It seems as though its sometimes easier to find fault then praise. I appreciate the time and effort that
went into creating these options and know this is not an easy process. However when I read through
the six options listed I do have some concerns. The inclusion that options one and five, the children
in English and French programs have separate recess times does not sit well with me. It comes
across as those English students and French students playing together at recess would have a
negative consequence of learning the French language. As a parent I would have a hard time
accepting this as we teach our children to be open to all new friendships no matter what differences
are apparent or what languages are spoken.
My greatest concern is option three in which English students would be transferred to Betty Gibson,
Earl Oxford and King George. As a teacher I know the importance of community involvement in
schools. As someone who has worked and volunteered at New Era School I feel it offers many great
opportunities for all students, families and the community. I’m strongly against any displacement of
the English track students. I’ve seen over the years how New Era has worked at becoming a
community school with numerous programs open to the community. I also believe it to be the only
school in Brandon to be part of the community schools partnership initiative. I would hate to see all
that hard work and the community programs dissipate because the community is separated.
I know when it comes down to decision-making time the numbers are going to play an important
role. It may seem mathematically logical so say that by moving the 130 English students rather than
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the 400 French students you are affecting less lives. I can't speak for all French immersion parents
but I believe the majority of us make the decision to drive our children to school or get them to the
nearest bus stop. If we couldn’t do this we probably wouldn't send our children to New Era. We will
still do this no matter where the French immersion program is located. Some catchment area families
however don't have this option and there isn’t a choice to drive their children to school. I worry if
the community kids are displaced to other schools that after school programs and sports may not be
as acceptable. I'm deeply concerned about the amount of children that may not have access to a
lunch that the soup kitchen has been providing for them because it is too far away. I would feel
guilty taking away a neighbourhood school that a child can easily walk to and from. In my opinion
one child not getting to school because they physically couldn't get there but could when their school
was in their neighbourhood is a breakdown in the public system.
We have heard there are only two students enrolled in English kindergarten class for next year and
three possibly for French immersion kindergarten classes. As someone who has worked in the school
system we know that enrolment changes many times throughout the year. It is far to early to give an
accurate account of English Kindergarten Enrolment. Please don’t let these numbers influence you.
As I read through the projected cost for transferring out the English students it may come across as
the most economical choice. But you can't put a price on the effect this option will have on the
students, their family and community. I urge you to consider this greatly. In terms of other ideas for
location and to address this I have two direct questions:
1. Is there a possibility of adding on to New Era?
2. Is there a possibility of building a separate English school within the same catchment
area or school grounds?
I'm sure that there are other ideas that some of us haven’t even thought of that may be the best
option. Please listen and consider these at decision-making time. Overall this is not an easy
decision. I applaud the use of the public Consultation to ensure that everyone’s views and opinions
can be heard. I urge everyone involved to make sure that within the final decision that no one gets
lost in the shuffle. Thank you again for your time.
Mattie Brayden
My name is Mattie Brayden and I teach here as a special allocation resource teacher in the Neelin Life
Skills program. It is a program for students with intellectual and developmental disabilities.
I am here to comment on option #2 which is making Neelin a K-12 French Milieu school and leaving
the Life Skills here. Our program already has 48 registered students for the 2009/2010 school year.
That is accompanied by 28 support staff along with four teachers. We are not small by any mean.
I'm here to advocate for my students and their families. I have already written the Board of Trustees
a letter expressing my opinions and feelings towards Neelin becoming a K-12 French Milieu. I
appreciate those that responded and even further Mr. Mayes who chose to have a tour of the
program. To refresh your memory and to paraphrase my letter for others - I'm frustrated! After
working for years towards inclusion with the efforts of family and staff for the Board to imagine
leaving our program to swim amongst a sea of students and staff that will not administrate, teach,
communicate or interact with out students in a language that they speak is inconsiderate and
unimaginable.
The Life Skills suite is a state of the arts facility and would be costly to relocate elsewhere in the
division. It is dynamic and contemporary in its programming. It is full of energetic bright young
adults who appreciate every day they come to Neelin. If you have any concept of how difficult it is for
them and the stigma they experience every day, you would want to foster inclusion and acceptance in
their most valued environment. Our relationships with Neelin’s staff and students are invaluable. It
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helps prepare my students for positive relationships in the community. A large part of this
relationship building process is language development and communication skills - something not
possible in a completely French environment.
I’m angry that the Board did not consider our program when creating the options for the French
Milieu debate. Board members have assured me that yes all programming was taken into
consideration and I do not believe that. I will be truly disappointed and disheartened as a special
education teacher in this Division if our Board believed that taking a divisional program for special
needs students and socially, linguistically and culturally segregating it from the rest of the school
population seemed like an ethically and educationally sound decision. Thank-you.
___________ Caswell
Good evening. My name is ____ Caswell and my husband and I presently have two children attending
the French Immersion program at Ecole New Era School and one at home that will be entering
Kindergarten in 2010.
First of all I would like to extend my thanks to those of you who believe that public consultation plays
an important role in approaching the matters that concern New Era School in a fair way. I believe
that by doing so you are sending a message to our community that our input is important, our
concerns are valid and that you have faith that we as a community may collectively have some
legitimate ideas and solutions. Thank-you. This isn’t an easy process.
For some background, I spent two years teaching a variety of early years programs in Norway House,
Manitoba. I have spent two summers working in British Columbia at a summer camp for children
with learning disabilities. Most recently, before children, I was a teacher with the Brandon School
Division. And to my good fortune I spent two of these years teaching various English programs at
New Era School.
Since my children started school at New Era two years ago, I have helped run an Early Years Math
Program for the English students. The reason I am bothering with these details is that I want you to
know this English program has a big heart and it has certainly won mine. I have seen the struggles
faced by so many and know they can be mountains to overcome without some hope and support
from others around them and their community.
For the record, my family and I are quite happy with Ecole New Era being a dual track school. I like
the diversity and the exposure to the variety of different cultures. I think we are incredibly
fortunate to have such a strong aboriginal culture program in place here. This is Manitoban culture!
I don’t oppose the French Milieu proposal. I tend to agree with the research that supports it. Of
course I want the best for my child! Do I think French Immersion is the be all and end all? Of course
not! But I think it helps them to learn to think globally. Look at the world as a bigger place and look
beyond the themselves and think outside the box. I'm not sure that we're modeling that in this
particular case with these particular options. And that is my purpose here today.
I’m extremely concerned about the well being of the English population should they be forced to
locate elsewhere. That I do oppose! I feel fortunate and thankful that every day of my life that my
children have enough to eat, a house to live in, clothes on their back and a safe comfortable place in
which to grow
and learn and develop into what I hope will be productive and compassionate
people. I’m fortunate that education has been and continues to be a priority in my family. I’m well
aware that there are many families that are not so fortunate. I think the building that houses New
Era school is a great facility. One that I would be sorry to leave. I feel it is imperative that this
building remain intact and a catchment area school. I'm fortunate I can drive my kids anywhere in
this City.
We’ve got to look after those who need this building in close proximity to increase the odds that they
will continue to see education as an integral part of their lives, an essential piece. We need to ensure
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that catchment area students have easy access to school as for many getting to school is often a
challenge in itself. We need them to know that this is their community school. They have ownership
of their education. It is a natural part of who they are and that the community supports their growth.
We cannot displace these children and expect them to flourish. We can’t increase the chance that
they will not come to school consistently. This would most certainly happen if they had to bus or had
to walk a long way to another school. What about the breakfast program? What about the notion of
a school being a community?
Historically we have seen the effects of displacement - Tragic effects that we are dealing with as a
society today. And we will continue to do so for a very long time. Have we learned anything from
this? Are we going to move forwards or backwards? Although the logical solution, given the
numbers, may be to disperse the English students to other schools, the right decision would be to
keep New Era school as a catchment school.
Too much space you say. I say it is an opportunity for growth. Why not challenge ourselves to create
a new exemplary level of community school? Why not be the forerunner in how to stimulate and
grow a core area school? Given the downtown revitalization and housing efforts this catchment area
is going to grow. Host adult education classes, run a daycare, have babysitting services so parents
may volunteer. Become the English language centre. The possibilities for the community are endless
and exciting. Dollars and cents this may not be the most feasible but I strongly urge you to take into
consideration the needs of the English speaking population when making a location decision. Not
only will your decision impact our children in the immediate future, it will impact future generations
. Let’s not kid ourselves. Not only will the results of your decisions impact the catchment area it will
impact the entire community of Brandon. We must not displace these children.
So please don’t rush this decision. Yes a solution to the space problem is needed. We have plenty of
creative thinkers in Brandon. Let’s ask for any and all proposals, even the ones that area seen as a
pipe dream. I had the crazy idea on the way here that you could through a contest , offer a cash prize
and see who could come up with the most sound solution to all this because there are lots of good
problem solvers here. If you should still chose to solve this space problem by displacing the English
students, you had better make sure that you have an impermeable plan to ensure their success. Not
what you think will work in theory but what will feasibly work. And who better to ask but the people
who live and work here. Thank-you for your time.
James Forsyth
Good Evening. My name is James Forsyth. I spoke on Tuesday night at New Era. I appreciate the
opportunity to speak to you for the second time and I appreciate the process. I think some very good
points came out. I think it's interesting that so many parents seem to be in favor of the best
education for their children. I think you can make a case that the French Milieu program would be the
best way of delivering French immersion. I think you can make a case that a catchment area school
needs to be the New Era site.
Regardless of what is said and done here tonight and in the future some students are leaving New Era
school - that's a fact. New Era is already beyond capacity. Whether there are three or four French
immersion kindergartens and one or two English track kindergartens - there are too many students
in New Era school. At some point in time someone's gonna have to go. So whether the 7 and 8’s
come here, whether the English students go to Betty Gibson, which by the way, and correct me if I’m
wrong – you could take the entire English track of New Era school plunk it down in Betty Gibson and
Betty Gibson would still not be at capacity. Something is going to have to happen.
New Era is a wonderful school but there's nothing in the water. The teachers, the programs, the
wonderful things that happen, are going to move wherever the people move. The lunch programs,
the breakfast programs, the community aspects, these are things that community does, that teachers
do, that the students do, that the parents do. They are not going anywhere. They will follow their
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students wherever they go. Moves have happened in the past. Moves can be accommodated. Moves
can be overcome. Moves can be a cause of renewal and change. Moves don’t necessarily have to be
feared. But regardless of how we feel about – somebody’s going to move.
The Brandon School Division has so much spare capacity that a new school or addition to existing
school is unlikely. French Immersion education which is almost to my mind, after listening on
Tuesday night and again to the earlier speakers tonight, is beside the point. Whether it's a milieu
school or a dual track school - somebody's gonna have to move.
Is French immersion the best way of teaching French - yes! Is the Milieu center idea the best way to
deliver French immersion – yes! There was a study done at the Ottawa/Carlton Board of Education
where they compared grade 5 students in French Milieu centers, dual track education, and English
language only. They gave them a series of tests and they balanced for both IQ and social economic
background. The Milieu center students scored better than French and English language schools
than all of the students who took that exam. If you think as a parent that its a good idea to learn
about other cultures and to learn another language - why would anyone settle for the second best
methodology of teaching that language? A gentlemen on Tuesday night said, “if you had a chance
having learned computers on a Commodore 64 to suddenly be given a Mac wouldn’t you take it?”
Somebody’s gonna have to move regardless of whether we take the Mac or stay on the Commodore
64.
I don’t wish to disadvantage any particular group or individuals. I also have a difficult time speaking
for anybody but me. I don’t want to speak for another community. I wish they would speak for
themselves. French immersion was an obvious choice for me. It is quality education. New Era is a
wonderful school. To make that better, seems again to me to be a no-brainer. If there are problems social economic, cultural, inside that area there is only so much the school board is responsible for
correcting. It there are problems, they need to be solved. This is just a question of what are we
going to do with soon to be 500, more than 500, French immersion students. Where are they going
to go?
Does anyone actually think that the Provincial Government is going to fund a new school? How long
does it take to build a new school and what do we do now between now and then? As was pointed
out be a teacher on Tuesday night, that if you take kindergarten and grade one French immersion you
are very quickly almost approaching the entire population of the English track in New Era. Just with
K and one and two. We’re not even out of the primary grades. That’s a stunning figure.
The idea of separateness is not a positive thought and it has ramifications in Canada that go beyond
the New Era French Milieu kind of issue. But the fact remains that the French Milieu center forces
the children that enrol in it to speak French from the time the walk in the door, to the time they leave.
They are not going to speak French at Taekwondo, they are not going to speak French at soccer and
they are not necessarily going to speak French at baseball. But research has proven that they learn
French better if they do that. It’s a simple thing! Sports, assemblies, announcements, it's just a
better way to deliver the program.
When a student population outgrows the capacity of a school to house them and there is no money
for new schools and additions – and there isn’t. What’s the logical alternative that best serves the
needs of all those students? So if you take away the whole idea of “Gee I don’t know if this idea of
separateness is a good thing”. We have too many students in too small a space. So these people have
a decision to make. Let’s not cloud it with emotion or the idea that something should be done, or it
would be nice if something could be done. If we remove the French immersion students from New
Era – how many people here think that New Era will as an English language school in two years.
There are 90 students that walk to New Era in the English program – 90. There are more than 90
empty spaces in Betty Gibson. It doesn’t make any sense. Something is going to be done. It's
terrible. It's unfortunate. By something’s going to be done. I think that you have to understand that
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the idea of people saying that I know it’s a space issue but that’s not important. Or I know it’s a space
issue but I would like it to stay just the way it is. It's just impossible.
No matter how you feel about the French language, no matter how you feel about the delivery of a
language in terms of how its taught, there are too many students in New Era. Who’s going to leave?
Where are they going to go? What makes the most sense? Thank-you.
Kathy Boyd.
Hi, my name is Kathy Boyd. I’m currently a school bus driver for the Brandon School Division. My
history is I spent several years working with pre-schools, I have spent a year in Quebec learning a
second language being French. I am a strong supporter of anybody learning two languages and I
don't care what two languages they are. It’s good for your brain. I am a stronger supporter of
creating a whole child. I think it's more important to give our children the full experience with many
cultures, many languages. Truthfully not many of the kids grow up here going into French Milieu or
any other French program is going to function very largely at all in French. It's more important for
them to be community - to seen inclusion - to see how to be part of differences.
I have a few issues with some of the suggestions. For those 90 to 100 children who walk to New Era
in the English language program - I spent a lot of time working with people with limited financial
resources. It costs a lot of money to send lunches with your children. And when you can’t use peanut
butter that really cuts down on options for families that can only afford a big jug of no name peanut
butter and cheap white bread for their kids’ lunch. That is a very realistic thing for many, many
people, particularly in the core area or the north end of Brandon. I think those things have to be
considered. It’s easy to say “somebody's gotta move”. Honestly somebody is going to have to
because of the size of the school. But please consider the people that are living downtown that are
walking. They can’t afford to drive there kids to join in sports that are not in their area. Their kids
can’t run to the school and play with their schoolmates if their schoolmates are not in their area. It's
different when you have a car, when you have the resources to put your children in different events
and those are important things.
I would also like to address the issue of special needs life skills program here. I have been working
with children in life skills since this whole program initiated in Brandon back in 1972. I was one of
the first volunteers in the program when the first class was a Linden Lanes School. And I have
worked the special needs kids ever since then and currently blessed with one of my own, who is in
the program here and Neelin. For the first time my child does not try and make himself throw up so
that he is too sick to come to school. That’s huge! My child is now in a position where he is not
entirely terrified to walk out of the classroom. They are trying hard to accommodate his learning
methods. Everybody in this life skills program is a person. They have desires, they have goals, they
want to make friends, they want to fit in. More than anything they want to fit in. If you take the most
needy children and young adults and tell them - “You're not worth moving – oh, I know your
isolated but sorry you won't be able to talk to anybody in the school either. Sorry. Well, no there's
no sporting events for you to go to either. No you can’t go to assembly – Sorry but you don't speak
French”.
If you want to change Neelin then you move the life skills class. That’s the only fair thing to do. And
if you want to talk about not effecting lives, when your child is the one comes home crying, because
they just don’t fit in at school. It is unfathomable that anyone who is blessed as 95% of our students
would consider it's OK to dump on them again. None of us want our kids to grow up and be
dependent on the taxpayer. We want them to be as well adjusted and as capable as possible so they
can go and get a job. They are not going to do it, if they don’t know how to fit in. It’s hard not to be
emotional and kudos for the staff here for trying, and they do a pretty darn good job with these kids.
But more than anything, I think all children need to understand differences, community,
participation and helping out. I’m not saying don’t do something for the French Milieu idea, just
remember that the people that are gonna get hurt the most in this are the people that need the most.
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Deveryn Ross
Deveryn Ross. Actually I didn’t plan on speaking and I'm only going to be I think two minutes
because, I intend to speak at Harrison. But I have heard some things tonight that are both heartwarming and disturbing. I just want to take two minutes to respond to them because I think they be
responded to now.
I wasn’t prepared to speak tonight, but the comments of these four ladies, I don’t know if there is
anything more I could on top need to
of the wonderful things they have said. They, I don’t believe any of them live in my community but
they certainly spoke for my community and for the children that live there. Those kids appreciate
that.
But for the comments made by Mr. Forsyth, I have to respond. Would you if given the choice and you
had a Commodore 64 wouldn’t you take a Mac? Well I wouldn't take a Mac if it meant destroying the
lives of 100 kids. I would be happy with my Commodore 64. If it meant telling those kids they can’t
have breakfast and I can’t go to school that is close to the soup kitchen where they get their lunch,
and the can’t go to school that is the center of their life, that is the one safe place in their life - I
wouldn't take that Mac. The English population of New Era is so small that we can disregard these
children and displace them and take all of that away from them.
Let’s acknowledge some facts. There is already a Grade 7 and 8 student population that has been
displaced and could come back. It was displaced because the overcrowding. It could come back now.
Let’s also acknowledge, and it's common knowledge, that there's a massive amount of social housing
being built right now for low income families in that area - specifically because there's a school
there. These are kids who are the neediest kids in our community. Most of them have trouble
speaking English! They are going to need all the support they can get. They don’t have the money to
walk to Betty Gibson. They can’t get there. It’s over a mile. We know what this winter was like. This
community is going to change. You can’t make a decision based on the population today because we
all know that it’s going to be significantly different two years from now.
So how will New Era continue to exist two years from now? It will be just fine as an English School
because there are going to be a lot more kids there. Mrs. Caswell had fabulous ideas and I am sure
there are more out there. This school could be so much more. It already is so much more!. A
speaker on Monday night talk about Hillary Clinton’s comment that it takes a Community to raise a
child. Let me tell you something, that Community is raising those children. There are parents in
that school. They are going there for breakfast. They are going there for lunch. The preschool
programs - they count on that school for everything positive in their life - and we can’t take it away
from them.
I just want to finish on one point because I said I wasn’t keen to talk tonight. But I want to remind
you that 40 years ago there was a son of a divorced single mother who was living on food stamps that their entire world gave him a chance to succeed and where would we be right now without
Barrack Obama? Think about that! One of these kids, if given the chance could cure cancer. They
deserve the same opportunity as every other kid in this city. We must be aware of them at New Era.
We must be aware of the needs of the children here at Neelin. Special needs are accomplishing great
things. These are kids who would be lost without the program here. They cannot - they have enough
burdens to carry. We cannot impose another one on them if we can avoid it. So let’s not do that. So
those are my comments tonight.
Catherine Giesbrecht
Good Evening, I’m Catherine Giesbrecht. I used two minutes on Tuesday so I’ll be very brief. I just
have to make a couple of – first rebuttal and a comment that New Era - that the dual track program
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is not making her daughter fluent enough in French to hold a conversation. My anecdotal was there
was a teenager – recent graduate from New Era – was gathering with a group of teenagers in a quasi
public area. I can’t go into details without embarrassing her. There was a gentleman associated with
this public area that was walking towards them not really upset so she said “Oh I recognize that guy,
he's the father of one my classmates.” So she took a couple of steps away from the group of teenagers
and greeted the gentlemen and explained what event the teenagers were gathering for, why they
were there and asked how the daughter was enjoying the summer break and finished off the
conversation quite nicely. Turned back to the teenagers and went to continue the conversation. And
they were just kind of like “What did you say to him? What did you say to him?” And she had to
consciously think about it because she had just automatically switched to French because she knew
this gentleman had been born in Quebec. That French is his primary language and he was more
comfortable speaking French. He is “bilingual” but she just – being the courteous bilingual Canadian
– she automatically switched to French. Speak English – speak French. That is what has graduated
from the New Era program. She has confidence to approach – like yes she knew him – but only as a
classmates father, she had never been to their house, never really gotten to know him but just
through recognition. She approached basically a stranger, had a five minute conversation in French
no problem. Then switched back to English. For those that think it may have been her home life –
that further developed her French program, her French abilities. Her father is German and antiFrench and very upset that she's in a French program. Her mother took, I believe back in Grades 4, 5
and 6, there was fifteen minutes when the TV was rolled into the classroom and we pretended to
watch TV. That was the extent of the mother’s French programming – abilities. So obviously, it
wasn’t at home. That conversation was solely the result of the dual track program at New Era. I
would love to thank all the teachers for producing a kind, confident, bilingual, Canadian from New
Era.
The second point - we talk about three or four kindergarten classes last year and again this year. In
the near future this is going to be, by my calculations, close to 700 French Immersion in the K-8
program. I tried to go through all these numbers. I can't find any one school that will house 700 800 K-8 students. Interesting comment that Betty Gibson has room for 100 students. Why don’t we
take – split off – 100 French Immersion students - start an almost Milieu program at Betty Gibson.
They can use a side door. They start a half hour early. The have recess a half hour earlier. They are
in and out for lunch hour before the English. You know do everything a half hour off and basically a
K-4. The next year would be K-5. Start building a Milieu and encouraging Betty Gibson catchment
area school to go elsewhere. But those already in 4, 5 and 6 – be allowed to finish their Grade 6 at
Betty Gibson as a second French Program starts to takeover that school.
In the mean time, to encourage them to go elsewhere rather than “get out of my way, I have French
students who are more important.” Why don’t we have any other enrichment program so that they
can go to so rather than going to Betty Gibson – okay walk a little bit further and go to Earl Oxford
because there is a performing arts program there where they get the music going, they get the dance
going, they get recorders – why wait until Grade 5, some musically inclined kids could start in Grade
2 by Grade 5 they could be on trumpets and clarinets. We can create a school choir at Earl Oxford.
We could use the music education students from Brandon university. Build a school choir that will
wipe Saint James Raben Court (I think she means – St. John’s Ravenscourt) off of the festival of arts
podium. Maybe there’s another school, King George has a sports program using the east end
community center hockey rinks. Get sports into everything because there are some kids that would
love to go to school if it was sports. Give them a reason to go to school outside of the Betty Gibson
catchment area.
Also regarding Option #2 at Neelin – and this is a direct question I would like one of the written
replies from – if you chose option #2 and make Neelin a K-12 French Milieu – what happens to the
International Baccalaureate accreditation that the school division just spent thousands to finally get
accreditation? Last June, July great announcement in the paper - we had three graduates that scored
very high. We are finally an internationally recognized school. What are the plans for International
Baccalaureate program here at Neelin?
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Thank you.
Gisele Perreaux
Thank-you for the opportunity. I’m Gisele Perreaux. I’m a Grade 3 teacher at New Era school. I am
here to talk to you about my feelings regarding a Milieu and explain to you why I support it. I am a
teacher at New Era, I began my teaching career there twenty years ago. I left six years to pursue
other interests, Reading Recovery, English teaching lit support at O’Kelly, Green Acres, Meadows,
Betty Gibson. I enjoyed these schools immensely but now I feel like I am home again.
I'm also parent of two children at New Era. New Era is facing a huge problem of space. We have too
many children in a school that is quickly getting too small to accommodate us all. Changes have to be
made. I look upon the Milieu as a solution. I have heard many times in the last few months “Why do
we need to change the Immersion program? Why do we need the Milieu?” I am now studying healthy
living at the theme in my class. We are studying food labels - checking ingredients, wearing
pedometers, completing food diaries, logging hours spent exercising. If I had followed the health
curriculum as it is written, I wouldn't have done any of the things. But I want better for my students
so I look to improve my lessons. I presume all of my classroom parents will support me on this. I
certainly don't expect any of them to show up at my door and say “Madame Perreaux, the curriculum
was adequate - stick to it please.” This is how I view the milieu. It takes the Immersion program and
improves it.
I recently heard a Brandon School Division colleague say “the immersion program at New Era is
adequate”. I don't want that for my children and for my students. I want to be - I don't want to be an
adequate mother, have an adequate marriage or be an adequate teacher. I want the best for my
children and my students. A Milieu will give me the opportunity to offer the best French program I
can.
There has been so much misinformation about the Milieu that I would like to address. On Tuesday
we heard comments if we would like to have - we would have to have all communications with
parents in French. Not so! We would speak to parents in English and if we had EAL students we
would arrange for an interpreter just like all Brandon School Division teachers do now.
Some people also have the impression that New Era staff, English and French must not get along that
they feud constantly. Again, not so! I was at an in-service yesterday with a colleague from the
English program. We have known each other twenty years. We sat together, laughed a lot, talked
openly about - with others at our table about our situation. We are supportive of one another. She
understands why I want to improve the French program and I understand her passion to keep New
Era’s at risk children safe and secure at their community school.
I understand Neelin staff and support staff are very concerned about staff not talking to students in
Life Skills. I want to assure them that good manners will prevail. Our students are taught and
expected to be good citizens. Having said that, I do not want to have our Grade 7 and 8’s at Neelin. It
opens only three classrooms at New Era and brings up serious concerns. The challenges faced by
high school students, drugs, gangs, peer pressure that are very real. It takes a certain level of
maturity and resilience to deal with these issues that eleven and twelve year olds simply don't have.
I feel then that we put them in potentially dangerous situations and their education would certainly
be compromised. I also believe parents will remove their children from French Immersion for these
reasons.
So what do we do? The original problem of space has become a matter of politics rather than one of
education. I am very proud to be an Immersion teacher and parent, but it takes thick skin. Public
perception is that we, immersion staff, student body and parents, are elitist, rich and separatist. How
can we take over a school? How can we ask catchment area children to move? How can we go into a
high school and ask everyone to speak French? How can we expect a new school in these economic
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times? I truly believe that if there was an empty Brandon School Division school large enough to
accommodate 500 – 600 – 700 students, the immersion population would be there. Sadly there is
not! Whether we stay or go to another catchment we will have to face negative backlash. The
growing pains will be painful. I only hope they be short lived. I recognize there's no easy solution to
this. I know that whatever decision is made will leave some feeling angry and resentful. I ask all of
you to consider this when you address the public or talk amongst yourselves. Ultimately, the words
you chose affect us directly. Thank-you.
Ray Sitter
Good evening. My name is Ray Sitter and I am pleased that you have given me the opportunity to
speak here. First of all, I am a little amazed that the Board is apparently not aware of all of these
issues that have been passed here with respect to the Neelin students, with respect to the students at
New Era and the catchment area students. Because they weren’t addressed in here. All I saw was
dollars and cents - numbers. We could put 90 here, we could put 60 there, we could move this, we
could move that. No recognition at all of how we would accommodate as a school division - what
would be in the best interests of all those kids.
Now I agree with a lot of the speakers here tonight. In respect to New Era – catchment trumps
French. The reason that people here aren’t very many people from the catchment area here – I’ll get
into that in a few moments. But you'll find that there's very few of those happening anywhere except
perhaps at New Era - within their own area.
Let me clear about something to start off with – I am in favour of the best education for the students
in this Division – that we can afford. I think we really have to be careful. You upped the taxes 7.5%
this year – the City has 5% - on a continuing basis that 12% will cause real estate tax to double in six
years. That affects rent. That affects houses. It affects everybody. There are people right across
the age spectrum who are going to be affected by that. They're going to be affected because they are
not going to be able to put out as much money as you think they can put out just because you say go
ahead – do it. Some of those people aren’t going to be here tonight. One of those reasons that they
are not going to be here tonight is that.
If you take a look at what you are going to do with the Milieu students - go ahead and do it – but
don’t for heavens sake add a bunch of money on top of what you are spending now. It does not make
any sense to a lot of people. I mean for salaried people you can negotiate and up your wages. For the
professional people, they up their fees to charge more. I’m paying $2.00 for a cup of coffee in many
places right now. That used to be $1.00 - 80¢ not that long ago. And all of the costs are going up in
the same way. Nobody in this town gets 12.5% increase. And yet you have to recognize there are a
lot of people sitting right on that edge - right on the bubble and are going to go down because of it.
And so upping the taxes is not the way to go. So if you can find an answer to it - bravo! But don’t go
ahead and spend as if the best was going to be something that you have to have. I mean in my
family, if times were toughs the kids didn't get everything we wanted them to have. We did not
cause them to lose out on anything. And I do not think the dual track system is causing them to lose
out on anything.
We are in a more difficult time then we were before. And so if we end up having to go ahead and
spend just because we want that extra step up – then I think we have to also consider all other
options. Milieu. In Shilo there is a Milieu school. It’s not part of the Brandon School Division. But
have you looked into having students here who want to go to a Milieu school take the bus out?
Students take the bus in. Take the bus out. It’s an idea. I don’t know what the cost would be, but it
needs to be considered. So from a wide variety of people - I would suggest that the important think
is take into consideration what it is that you are hearing from the people. If you already didn’t know
it. And don’t add onto your 7.5% I guess is what I would say. Thank – you.
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Pearl Smith
Hi. My name is Pearl Smith. I was at the meeting on Tuesday night and I did speak. First of all, I
would like to apologize because on Tuesday night I hadn’t had a chance to read the handouts. And I
have had a chance to read the handout now.
I didn’t realize that the motion to create a Milieu program had been carried by the Board. It’s already
done. There had been a motion to rescind that motion. And that has been defeated by the Board 4
to 4. So I take it from that information that you have given us here the decision is already made. I
understand that if circumstances say that the majority over 50% and you're convinced that the
majority of the public is not willing to go that way that you may change your mind on it. But I still say
that’s too bad.
The cost is overwhelming. But that’s not what concerns me. What concerns me is that we already
have a program that parents of French immersion students have already said over in over again, is
wonderful - works great - produces wonderful children. Myself, I have three children grown up.
Two of them were in the French immersion program, their choice. And with my encouragement,
one decided to stop at grade 6 and the other decided to go all the way through high school. Their
choice. And they have done very well for themselves. All of them whether they were English or
French. I think we need to think about that choice that we leave for our students. If we put a student
in complete French culture language with no English around, no other languages around – what
choice do they have when they get to Grade 6? Can they then join an English school if they feel like it?
Not very easily. Their writing skills, their speaking skills I’m sure would be fine – but their writing
skills, their comprehension skills would not be up to par.
Originally, in October, '07 according to this information, the Board had stated that they needed to
have a French immersion school program review. Which is fine. And on April 14th, 2008 the Board
decided that they would need an external consultant for that process. That motion to have an
external consultant was defeated. Perhaps you should have had the external consultant because this
is certainly not a very good way to go. It’s put a lot of people upset. There is a lot of concern about
where to put the French Milieu because you've already decided that you are going to have one. In
my mind to have a French immersion school expand to other schools to relieve the space problem
would be the best , lease expensive route to take.
In your cost, everywhere that you want to put a French Milieu school you are saying that you have to
put a separate gym for the French students. Why? The gym doesn't care whether the students are
French or English. You just allocate it separately. It’s way to much expense.
One of the reasons for the increased enrolment in French Immersion kindergarten in New Era school
is because there is a cap on English enrolment. One of the speakers on Tuesday night suggested
maybe we should put a cap on the French enrolment and another speaker was outraged by that. Of
course, I don’t think there should be a cap on any enrolment for kindergarten students. But when a
catchment area student comes to New Era school and wants to enrol in English and is told that the
class is full here and if he wants to enrol here he has to go in French Immersion – guess what
happens? He goes in French Immersion. Cause he is a catchment area student, but he doesn’t get to
go in his own language. How does that work? That’s despicable! There needs to be a lot more
consultation – if you are going to consult with the public about one thing you need to consult about
the other thing first. Thank-you
Tracy Thompson
Hello, my name is Tracy Thompson. My husband and I have a son in grade seven at New Era French
Immersion and a daughter here at Neelin in grade 10 in the French Immersion, and I just quickly
have an opinion and a concern. Regardless of what is decided we would keep our children with the
French program because it is what we want for children. But a personal opinion, I myself, as a child
was in both a dual tract school, French and English and a completely French environment school, and
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I have never felt that it made a difference one way or the other as far as my knowledge of the
language, or my use of the language, or of the culture. And also I heard someone say at one point that
a French Milieu School, therefore they'll have everything in French, they’ll have the assemblies in
French, they’ll have the announcements in French, they’ll speak French on the playground. They
don’t speak French on the playground. I know myself in the all French school, we had that rule too.
They had disciplinary action if we were caught speaking English but if there was no teacher in sight
they do not ever speak French if they don't have to. One way or the other, I think they still learn the
French language. Our children are bilingual. We have family Quebec. We were there last year. They
had no problem jumping right in, understanding things, speaking and using the language, so that's
just my personal opinion from my own experience, as well as our children’s. A concern I have, if
option two was to be chosen making Neelin K to 12 French. My father is a teacher in a small town in
Manitoba and therefore they have K to 12 and what happens when there's only one or two classes
per grade in secondary school, in secondary level, is that options start disappearing for those
children because there isn’t enough interest. There’s maybe two kids that are interested in this
course, two kids interested in that, so with our children being the ages they are our question and our
concern would be if that was the option chosen, what would happen to the options that our children
would have in their course selections in high school. Thank you.
Janet Shaw-Russell
My name is Janet Shaw-Russell and my husband is Craig Russell. I come to offer our perspective on
the proposed French Milieu program. We are former French Immersion and New Era catchment area
parents. For twenty years we have lived, worked and been part of the community in downtown
Brandon. We live one block from New Era School. Both our children graduated with French
Immersion diplomas from Neelin, and having been in the French Immersion program from Grade l to
grade 12. They graduated in 2004 and 2007. As French Immersion parents of students from the
dual track system, we would ask the Brandon School Board and those that proposed the Milieu
program to consider the following. The proposed changes from dual track to Milieu is perhaps
driven by the question - Are the dual track French Immersion students getting a good education in
French? I can offer our experience. We are very thankful to the many teachers in both French and
English that taught our children at both New Era School and Neelin High School. We feel our children
received an excellent education. Our daughter chose to follow, high school with a four year French
degree from Brandon University. Upon graduation from University, she was awarded the Silver
Medal in French, the Gold Medal in Arts and the Governor General’s Medal. We mention these
awards because we want the Board and others in favour of the Milieu Program to know that the
grounding received in the dual track system does provide an excellent basis for future French studies
and the use of French skills in society. The reasons we chose the French Immersion Program were
that we wanted our children to learn a second language, be exposed to another culture and have the
advantage of knowing a second language to improve their options in life. We did not have an option
between a Milieu and a dual track system. However having had the experience of a dual track
system, we would choose the dual track. Our children, and we as parents, learned so much from
being involved with a school that had both French and English programs. The biggest advantage was
that our kids met students outside their French Immersion group. They met students from our
immediate neighbourhood, students from other parts of the city, students of different cultural
backgrounds and students of different economic backgrounds. It was wonderful to see them know
and make friends with students from the English program. And when they became involved in high
school choir and drama productions they got to know Life Skills students. Much would be lost from
the choir, drama and sports if there was not a mix of students from French, English and Life Skills
Programs. Brandon has become increasingly multicultural. The segregation of French and English
programs mentioned in several of these options will only serve to increase the perceived elitism of
the French program and its students.
The physical separation of students with separate
administration, separate public address systems, separate assemblies and separate playground time
would be, from our perspective, an unfortunate choice. A dual track system without this separation
offers the chance to be well educated in a second language and allows for the mixing of students from
a variety of cultural backgrounds in French, English and Life Skills programs. For this reason we
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think the Board should reconsider the Milieu option. Lastly we don't agree with the options that
remove core area students from their neighbourhood school to other parts of the city. To have a
sense of community and connections, students and parents from the core area need access to a local
school for education and any after school activities within walking distance. There is more affordable
housing for lower income families in the core. Also within walking distance there is access to the Y,
the Brandon Public Library, the Art Gallery, the Elspeth Ried Family Resource Centre, grocery stores,
banks etc. to name a few facilities. If you remove schooling from the core, you also remove families
and a sense of community. In the twenty years we have lived in the core we have seen many
improvements. One of our goals as a city should be to improve our core area by including a mix of
residential and commercial functions, single family dwellings, townhouses, condos, apartments,
including low income housing and access to education, cultural and sports facilities for families in the
core. Our conclusions - As overcrowding is one of the issues, we would propose two revised options
based on option one. Option 1A would be where grade 7 and 8 of the French Immersion are moved
to Neelin. However, like one of the previous speakers, I do have some concerns about that. Having
the 7’s and 8’s moved to a high school, but that New Era would become a K to 6 school with both
French Immersion and English programs but without the physical separation of students, separate
administrations, address systems, assemblies or playground times. Option B in our opinion would be
to add to New Era School so that grade 7 and 8 French Immersion students can remain at New Era.
New Era would continue to operate as a dual track school with a K to 6 English program and a K to 8
French program, but again without the physical separation of students, the administration, address
systems, assemblies and playground times. Thank you very much for the opportunity to express our
views.
Anita Sylvester
Hello, my name is Anita and my children attend New Era School. I want to say that I don't feel that
this is an English verses French issue as many people are making it out to be. This is a space issue. I
think that if both programs are to succeed then a division needs to be made because there's
absolutely no more room at New Era to house both programs. Someone offered an idea that is not
one of the options listed on the sheet. It was questioned whether Brandon School Division would
consider building a school for the students in the core area so no other schools or students would be
affected. What a great new idea. Is there even an empty building in that area that could be
transformed into a school? I would like to address option one - transferring grades 7and 8 students
to Neelin. I don't feel that that would be a successful or safe option. I don't think it's fair to send
younger students to a high school where they would be in contact with young adults. These children
are vulnerable, impressionable and don't need the added pressure or stress of attending a high
school at such a young age. We understand that Neelin has reservations about having New Era come
here. But has anyone even thought that maybe we may have the same reservations. The Immersion
program at New Era is a great program and the quality of the program will not change even though
the name may change to Milieu. We just need a place to continue implementing it. Which building is
large enough to accommodate the current and ever continuing increases of enrolment? Personally I
don't care where the program gets placed as long as the students all transfer together. I’ll travel
wherever I need to, but please, keep the grades K to 8 together. Do you think we would be having
this public Consultation if the demand was for another language? Probably not. But because
Brandon School Division offers parents an option for the children to be educated in a second
language everyone seems to be in an uproar over it. It is not just French families wanting the Milieu
it is all families. There is a demand for the Immersion program. Let’s not cap registration numbers or
choose who can enrol. Lets keep it open so everyone can have the opportunity to attend a Milieu
school if they so choose to. I'm asking the members of the board to please act quickly as our
children's education is at stake. Thank you.
Keith Harpelle
My name is Keith Harpelle and my daughter is a grade 9 student here at Neelin. She is not in the
French Immersion program here in Neelin, she comes as an English speaking student only. I would
like to speak about her experience at Neelin as a grade 9 student. Neelin offers so much to a student,
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with the IB program, with their arts and music programs as well as their academics. Now, on the
upside, she has been exposed to the students of the French Immersion class. She has been exposed to
a different culture in a lot of areas that she has never experienced. We’re asking - room – yes, space,
classroom size is a huge issue in this city. Our population is expanding. We must find a solution.
You will have no argument from there. The only statement I will make is that segregation has never
been a solution in the history of this world, so why would segregation be a solution in Brandon,
Manitoba?
Samuel Ankeman
Hello, I am Samuel Ankeman. I am currently attending Neelin and, I realize the problems with money
about the poorer children attending New Era School in the English portion. I actually agree with
option number three – transfer the English students to Betty Gibson, but if it’s a problem of actually
having them go there – arrange for them to take the bus. Have them meet at a certain area and let
them have the bus. And for like option number two - that would be involving moving many more
students from here in Neelin which would be a bigger problem than option three. I know I may not
be the most serious source considering I'm not even out of high school, but I have come from all the
different regions. My dad works for, as the homeless coordinator for about a year in BNRC and we’ve
had many discussions about the money that here in Brandon, Manitoba, but everything else seems
kind of strange for me. Thank you.
Jody Carkner
My name is Jody Carkner. I am a teacher at New Era School. I have two children that attend New Era
School. I am a former graduate of New Era School and Neelin High School’s French Immersion
Program. Hopefully I’ll do a better job today than I did the last time. I spoke to the Board when they
met at the school and didn’t do such a great job there. I just wanted to address a couple of things that
have come up this evening – a few misconceptions. Since the board will not be addressing them, I
would like to address them myself and come up with some other things. As a parent and a teacher at
New Era School nobody wants to see anybody, displaced because of our program. Unfortunately
because of the space issue, like Jim Forsythe said, something is going to have to happen and whether
or not the board had proposed a Milieu option a year ago we would still be having these discussions
right now because of the population issue and something will have to be done whether or not we go
through. There are many parents that are satisfied with the dual track program, and that's great. I'm
very glad, being a teacher, that you’re satisfied with your child's education but the fact of the matter
is we can’t all stay there and we need to come up with some options and as Giselle Perot said, if there
was a school that would fit us right now we would all gladly leave and go to another spot and have an
option. Unfortunately there isn’t. I'm not happy with the options that have been presented so I’m
asking the board to think outside the box a little bit more and maybe come up with some other
options. I had mentioned the idea of the Convergys Building to the Board. It is a building that is
empty as of right now. It has been leased and paid for until 2014 and possibly that is a partnership
that could be done with Brandon. There would be room for a playground. There's also the Y gym
right there or there probably would be a lot of space there for a gym because it's a very large
building. There's also the fact of the matter that Fleming is being leased too right now, by Sioux
Valley. Why not take the money, if it’s not an option to use that building that Sioux Valley is being
used, is paying Brandon School Division and use that money to lease another building downtown for
space? What about even the town center – there’s a lot of empty spots in the town center - is there a
spot there that could house enough space for 8 classrooms and a gym. Possibly, I don't know but I
think that we need to maybe start looking outside the box and maybe we don't need to go on
elsewhere to get the money. Maybe it could come from the Sioux Valley money. I just want to talk to
you a minute as well about separate programming within New Era School. When I first came to New
Era – just a little history of the French Immersion. French Immersion started out with a program at
Riverview School and a program at Riverheights School. When I started, I started at Riverheights in
grade 4. The following year, due to many issues there was a fact of trying to find teachers for two
different schools, the fact that French resources are unfortunately, a lot more expensive than English
resources so they combined the school – the two programs together in a central location that would
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be accessible to everybody in the community and that’s why New Era was chosen. It also had the
space to grow and we are growing. When I first came to New Era, we were separate programs. We
had the French Immersion on one side of the building and we had the English on the other side of the
building. We had recess together but pretty well everything else was done separately. Because of
that there were many problems, so I do not agree with any of the options that proposed us having a
school within a school as a French program. English muffins came to mind, French frogs came to
mind, lots of fighting in the change room. So eventually after a few years of this, the administration
decided, we better mix these programs together and get them working together and we are at a point
where things are really good between the two programs for and – could we all stay together, that
would be great. If we weren’t growing, maybe we wouldn’t have this problem right now but we do
and even if Milieu wasn’t on the table there would still have to be some options presented for all of
us, so I guess what I'm asking the board is maybe you can think outside of the box, maybe there is
another option that is available. I would just like to say to the Milieu idea that as a teacher and as a
graduate, I would support the idea. I would just like to say I, being a teacher where French is my
second language, I'm constantly learning as well, and for me to be immersed in a completely French
environment would probably increase my French a lot. One of the ways that I learn a lot more
French is through speaking with my colleagues. Unfortunately a lot of the spoken French right now is
done in English. Meetings are done in English, assemblies are done in English, staffroom
conversations are done in English. If that staffroom conversation was done in French I would be
using my French a lot more every day and would be increasing my French skills as well, not only the
students. And when my French skills benefit, my students benefit as well. Everybody’s saying we’ll
keep it as is. That would be great and so then what, do we cap the program? Do we do a lottery? In
BC I think that's how they run things. They have to do a lottery to have French Immersion. I don't
agree with those options either because I think that everyone should have a chance to take French
Immersion - every background. I just wanted to talk to a couple of points that were made tonight just
to clarify a few things. Not everybody can go to the school in Shilo. The French school is for parents
and students with French background. My kids probably could go there because I do speak French.
There, in the DSFM, which is another school division not Brandon School Division you have to do
French report cards and interviews in French whereas Brandon School Division the French
Immersion programs are not like that and even if it goes to a Milieu school we will still have
interviews in English, we will still have report cards in English. Writing skills, somebody said that if
they left the program in grade 6 they wouldn’t be up to par, while French Immersion skills may lag up
to grade 3 they take off and go beyond these skills and if you're to look at the data from Brandon
School Division you would see the achievement scores in English and in French of French Immersion
graduates. As for the additional gym – somebody was saying that we need a separate gym for French
students – no - the fact the matter is that there would be that many more students, that much more
gym time, so as a result you need more gym which is where we're at, at New Era again. We don't
have enough gym time for all the students the next year or two. Students at New Era that have been
denied, coming to the English program, or school of choice students, and that again is probably down
to the numbers and not from catchment area. They were denying school of choice which means
these students are coming from a different catchment area and wanting to attend New Era’s English
program. I do also want to say that having attended Neelin High School that I think there's a need in
Brandon for a small high school and I think that you can see that through your little program. I’m not
sure that the downtown that you have, that not everybody is comfortable in such a large huge setting.
I myself quite enjoyed the small school atmosphere that I had here at Neelin and I don’t know if I
would've been quite as comfortable going to Crocus or Vincent Massy. I like the home and the family
feeling that I had here. Thank you very much.
Andrea Plante
Hi, my name is Andrea Plante. I have three children in the French Immersion program here in
Brandon - two at New Era and one at Neelin. I have made a presentation previously to the board in
support of the establishment of a Milieu school. In that presentation I spoke about the wonders of
free speech. At New Era on Tuesday many people took advantage of that. Some of the things I heard
there all relate back to one word and that word is fear. Fear is a very powerful emotion and can have
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a very positive or very negative effect on what is happening. For instance fear of getting hit by a bus
is a good tool for teaching us to look both ways before we cross the street. It’s not, however, so
effective when the fear is based on the lack of information or simply misinformation and one of the
biggest fears we have seen here is simply the fear of change. On Tuesday night many people
expressed fears about losing programs that are currently running in the English program if New Era
was chosen as the location for a Milieu school. We heard so many wonderful things about those
programs - the counselling available to families at the school, the BSEP Program, the community
room, the breakfast program and drumming groups who use the school - just to name a few. If the
English programs are amalgamated couldn't these programs be established at other locations in
other schools? And for that matter, with the English enrolment at New Era only being around 140 or
so couldn’t those programs be expanded to reach hundreds of more students and families if they
were at a school with a higher enrolment. Some people were also afraid that some of the children
currently attending the English program at New Era would have difficulty getting to school if the
catchment area lines were changed and had to walk farther than they do now. Maybe that fear exists
because people don't realize that no K to 6 student in the Brandon School Division has to walk if they
live more than 1.6 kilometres from the school. As a matter of fact approximately 45 kids or almost
35% of students who attend the English program at New Era already take the bus to school as do
hundreds of other students in the Division. There was also a lot of fearful statements made about
students in the English program not being able to adapt if they were required to move. With the
exception of option number five – creating a French centre at New Era but keeping the English
program there too, a group of students, ranging from a few grades to an entire school will have to
move and someone will have to move regardless of what happens with the Milieu decision because
New Era is busting at the seams. The practical capacity of New Era school is 520 students and our
current enrolment is at about 540. Under these conditions neither the English program nor the
French Immersion program can be maintained let alone thrive. Student mobility should be looked at
here too. The new English program has the highest student mobility rate in the Dvision no matter
how you look at it. The three year weighted relative mobility rate for the program is almost 40%
higher than the Divisional average and from September 2007 to June 2008 the mobility rate in the
English program at New Era School was just over 62% - by far the highest in the division. In
contrast, the French Immersion program at New Era had as little as 5% mobility rate over the same
time period. Some other misinformation we heard on Tuesday was about the Milieu program itself.
For instance some people choose to ignore what has been provided or didn’t get a chance to read the
information and made comments about having to replace all the books in New Era’s library and all
the text books in the New Era classrooms if it was a Milieu school. Some people suggested that
parents of French Immersion students who do not speak French which I happen to be one of those
parents would not be able to attend their child's parent teacher interview because it would now have
to be conducted in French because that's what a Milieu school is. Neither of these statements are
true. Despite information being provided on what exactly a Milieu school is you can’t reach
everybody so I’m saying it once again for those here tonight who may not have heard it before. The
in class instruction in a single track French Immersion Milieu school does not change. No library
books have to be replaced and no new textbooks have to be purchased and interviews will definitely
still being conducted in English for those of us who would have no clue what was being said in the
French conversation. Conversation – that’s another word I’d like to speak about. In our current dual
track system French Immersion students hear and speak the French language in the classroom but
their conversations are almost limited to those centering around what is happening in the classroom.
A friend of mine was telling me about how her son had been learning about Terry Fox. They had
spent much time in class learning about his journey, struggles and achievements - in French. This
classroom unit was culminated by a school assembly and other activities. Because of the dual track
system at New Era however, these final activities were all conducted in English because the entire
school was participating. Can you imagine spending hours learning about something and then
having the final wind up conducted in a different language than you learned it in. A Milieu school
creates an environment where French conversations in the hallways, on the playgrounds and at
assemblies are not only encouraged but expected. They take what they have learned in the
classroom and turn it into practical applications within the school. It is not just about test scores and
the acquisition of educational facts in another language it's about creating bilingual citizens. A Milieu
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school is a proven effective tool. An environment way do this. One last comment. In my
presentation to the Board last month I also talked about the School Division’s responsibilities of the
French Immersion program and students in Brandon. When looking at the three year relative
rollover rate for the Division when speaking about mobility, basically means the movement of
students in and out schools. The Divisional average is at about 29%. From 2005 to 2008 the student
movement in the French Immersion program had by far the lowest rate in the Division and was
almost 25% lower than the average. That shows great commitment to the program. This Board has
the responsibility to show the same level of commitment to strengthening the program. Not
elevating the current French Immersion program to the next level should not be an option. A Milieu
school should be established. Thank you.
Debbie Clisby
I’m probably one of the oldest parents here. My grandson’s in grade 10 at Neelin and all I’ve heard is
about French and the Life Skills which is great at Neelin. But what about the rest of the English
speaking Neelin students? I, as a parent did not want him to even come to Neelin. I wanted him to
go to Crocus because he was doing the trades and he does do a dual at Crocus and at Neelin but he’d
give anything to stay at Neelin full time. This is a great school! I’m in here probably, I hardly see any
parents but I bet you I’m in the school once a week, through the school and all the kids are just
fantastic. No wonder the life skills teacher wants to stay here with Neelin children because they are
the nicest kids. Most of the time I walk down the hallway they stop and say hello. They are great and
I think as a group you need to look at the taxpayers and the cost of all this. I grew up and French was
taught in the room. You went to French and three quarters of Brandon is run by business people
that did not have a French immersion program and we seem to be functioning fine. French is good
but it's not for everybody. My grandson could not survive in French. He’s having a hard enough time
in the English let alone doing a French program, and I think you guys need to look at everybody.
There’s been a lot of good comments here and about the taxpayers. We’ve been dinged a lot of years,
taxes going up, going up, that you should look at doing something that's reasonable. If you bring all
the kids over here to Neelin, what about the bathrooms? When you switched the kids from Fleming
to New Era, you had to change all the bathrooms. What are you going to do here? I did not see that in
the cost proposal there. That is another thing. There is more hidden costs that are not put in that
that I think need to be addressed and I’d like to know where the English students are going to go. Are
they going to have a choice what school, this school’s been here a long time, it’s got a great football
program. That is one reason Tyler decided to go to here was the football program and you look on
those football field - I've been there every game, hardly missed a game and you look at the Crocus
team, you look at the Vincent Massey team, they’re huge. Our kids get to play, and he’s not the best
player, but he enjoys it. He’s a social butterfly and I graduated two kids and neither one of them
came from Neelin. This is my grandson, he lives with me, and he’s going to Neelin. I have a Vincent
Massey daughter doing very well and she graduated and French was offered in the classroom
through those years. So this is great having the French Immersion, but I think we need to think about
our taxpayer money, where it should be spent. Trades, we’re needing trades all the time. Crocus has
a fantastic trade program, maybe we need to spend more money on trades. Maybe we need to spend
more money on Life Skills. There’s a lot of needy children needed in English that I think you should
sit down and look at what is the cheapest way and the best way and there’s been a lot of good
suggestions here but bringing all French over with Life Skills does not make sense to me at all. You
want a total French school. How can it be French with the Life Skills here. That’s what I’d like to
know, and I think the taxpayers, we’re voting for you, and believe me, I know who to vote for! And
last time I did dealings with Meadows and Fleming at the same time, I seen how the board acted and
had a lot of dealings - Jim Murray – you’re the best! I have complete faith in you but there’s some
here just for – yeh, I’m embarrassed(??) – I don’t know him at all but I really respect his opinions and
like you guys need to listen to some of these opinions and just because you may have kids in French
that may not be the best for everybody else and obviously there’s a lot opinions here tonight so I
hope you take into consideration a lot of these opinions, and thank you.
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Irene Philips
My name is Irene Philips, I am the canteen lady here and I feed Mrs. Clisby’s grandson every day. He
eats well. Lots has been said. I’m also the parent of three French Immersion graduates of New Era
and Neelin. One is student teaching at New Era right now, one worked and lived in Montreal for a
year, functioning in French and my third daughter worked in Rumuski (?) Quebec for the summer on
a French work experience program where no one in her office (Natural Resources Quebec) spoke
French. So our current dual track French program certainly is supreme. They can function in Quebec,
not just in Manitoba, in Quebec, in French.
I might also add that two of my three children are
Governor General Award winners from Neelin High School. The other one was in the top three in her
class. They graduated in 2000, 2002 and 2004. I have many eye opening things happen here
tonight, Mr. Ross mentioned about the Commodore. I agree. My children were at the top of their
class but I would not sacrifice another child's education for their education because you know what,
the kids that are in French Immersion are getters, do-gooders, they will do, they will find a way, they
don’t need the extra support that the downtown kids need. I had a friend when I went to high school,
I went to school in Rivers and she lived at one end of Rivers and the high school was at the other end
so maybe ten to twelve blocks. She froze her ears so badly that they were three times the size they
should have been, they split and they bled and that's a high school student walking twelve blocks.
Can you imagine what would happen to a kindergarten kid who maybe might miss the bus? My son,
when my kids started at New Era, it was elitist, because there was no bussing for French Immersion.
Unless you were a stay at home mom or had a flexible enough job that you could drive your kids to
school they didn't get to go. So everybody believed that unless your child, you know you were a
doctor or a lawyer, your kid couldn’t go to French Immersion. We worked really hard as a school
back then, to eliminate that perception, to make French Immersion available to everyone. That’s why
we now have bussing. It's been talked about that our French immersion population is growing. But
how many of those kids were like, Mrs. Shaw, sorry, Janet, whose kids are/were French Immersion
but lived in the catchment area. Like how many of our catchment area kids are taking French
Immersion now because it's available to them because they can walk there. Those kids would not be
in French Immersion if it were somewhere else. Now some other lady whose name I’m sorry I’ve
forgotten, mentioned that, this lady over here, that maybe we should be starting French Immersion in
a second school. Maybe we should be. It used to be in two schools, why not start again? That would
answer our problems, because there is not a building in this school except for maybe Crocus Plains,
that’s big enough to hold 1000 kids. And that would be the answer. And segregation is not the
answer we know that. How many riots have there been because of segregation. We don't wanna go
there. We would not be where we are. I could not feed the children here without Life Skills. They do
so much! And they are such a big part of the school. I had a, he’s now a professor at B.U., and I
shouldn’t drop his name, but he worked/was a teacher here, and he told me, like he wrote his
masters on Neelin and how inclusive we are, how multicultural we are. What New Era is almost the
same so why would we want to deprive the city and our children of that. I had numerous other notes
going back to the cost and all that sort of stuff too, but they really don't matter. One of the options
was mentioned that Neelin become a K-12 School. Well, we had parents expressing concerns about
having 7 - 8 in the same school as 9 – 12. Why would you want Kindergarten kids in that class, in that
same school so that option to me is a no-brainer in the first place. But as far as the milieu goes, it's
just too elitist. We’re going backwards, we’re going back to twenty some years ago when my 27 year
old started school. Like why would we want that. We have to be thinking about cost effectiveness as
well as what's best . And I will take the Commodore 64 if it means that everybody gets an education.
Thanks for the opportunity to talk.
Walter Slominany
My name is Walter Slominany. At the last Trustee Meeting my wife made a presentation. We are
both in favour of the milieu program, no matter where it is. It seems ah, I was at the meeting on
Tuesday night at New Era School and listened to a lot of presentations and there's a lot of causes
coming up. There’s taxpayer's issues, there’s the lack of room at New Era School coming up, we have
the, no one wants to supplant the core area kids, and all these are good issues, I mean, speaking to
the last person who spoke at this microphone, it was all about the tax dollars, while the cheapest
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proposal was number three to move the kids, the core area kids from New Era. I don’t think a lot of
people want to see that option. Jodie Carkener made a good point, I actually wrote it in on our
survey, our ballot if you will, to look into the Convergys building, that’s downtown, for the English
students. It's two blocks to the north I suppose, and if something could, if we could find a building to
house those kids in that area I think it would be great, great for them, great for the core area. It
would make a lot of people happy, probably except for the taxpayers are so concerned about
children’s educations, I mean, we’re hearing about $2.00 cups of coffee, and you know, well, don’t
drink a cup of coffee every day but, anyway, I’m going to keep it short and I’d like to thank Mrs. Coey,
you’re taking a lot of slack in the last little while, and I’m a voter and I know who I will and won’t be
voting for so, thank you.
Marla Sommersall
Thank you. I feel that a large part of what I need to say tonight is “ditto”. (asked to give her name –
I’m sorry, Marla Sommersall) There are a lot of people who have identified some of the issues that I
feel are very important in this discussion. And working for a not-for-profit organization, I know how
hard it is to stretch limited resources and try to make everybody happy with the few resources that
are available. And I think that you don’t have an enviable task as a Board to try to come up with a
decision. But I would like to share my point of view, primarily as a parent of two children who are in
French Immersion. I am incredibly impressed with the education that they have received.
Sometimes in spite of their best efforts and certainly appreciate the teachers that they have had.
What I see in the New Era program is not just a French immersion program and not just an education
in French. I see an education about the world and about the kind of community that I would like my
children to be a part of and to take responsibility to grow up in. They have had experiences with
many different cultures. They’ve had experiences with not just French, but many languages and
that’s a very enriching part of their education. And I’ve heard comments this evening about Neelin
being similar and that to me as a very positive thing to know that my children will come to school
where they’re going to have that kind of opportunity continue. Those are very important things to
me as a parent and to me as a part of a community that is changing rapidly and that we need to be
able to respond to. There have been lots of ideas thrown around about different options and I would
hope that the board to take a minute to look, over a long minute, to look at some of those different
options and look at other venues and look at the possibility of two schools and look at the kinds of
options that would not harm the education of other children in order to provide for their benefits to
children who already have a lot of benefits. There is no question that there needs to be a change.
There is no question that the school is full and at capacity and needs to have a change very very
shortly. But can there be a change that is not going to negatively impact one group of students? Can
there be a change that’s going to be positive for everyone in the community so that we all can move
forward together? Because one way or the other, as a Board of Directors, you’re going to have the
responsibility to deal with the healing process out of this, to have the opportunity to encourage
everyone who has been a part of it and everyone who has had difficult things said about them, to
them and to others as well about dealing with this issue. There are going to be a lot of hard feelings
no matter who ends up where and I think that that's the responsibility that the Board needs to take
on for the whole community. They can’t solve the problems for anyone, I recognize that, but there
needs to be a healing process coming out of this. A couple of questions that I have that I would like
an answer to is as a parent who is happy with the current system, am I going to have choices once
this decision is made? If I like the double track program do I have a choice in the future or am I going
to be forced to decide whether to move my children to the English program or out of the school
division? Is there going to be an opportunity for further programming if the choice is made to
move the English program. Is there going to be an opportunity for the community to work with BSAP
and with the community school to be created elsewhere that hasn't been discussed and I know there
are many parents who are part of those programs who really are not prepared to start over again. It
took them a long time to trust, it took them a long time to choose to come to the school and
participate. Is there going to be a process in place to help parents if that’s the decision that you make.
And I think that’s a very important part of it. The other thing that I’d like to know is whether not as
French Immersion parents are we going to have the opportunity for our kids to participate in any of
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those activities ever again. Or is the programming going to be strictly related to French, French
culture and not addressing the other areas that have been very valuable to us as parents of this
school. I have a couple of other questions that I just want to find here. One of the other things I had
wondered was given that there is, with English program if the BSAP program had the opportunity to
expand within that school, would there be a possibility for it to be as large as the French Immersion
program and is that something we can take a look at where currently there are two programs and
that's cool but are specialized and they’re providing specific resources to kids who need specific
services. Is there a possibility to offer the space in that school to create a true community school with
community programs, with all kinds of new ideas and centrally located opportunities for not just
children's education but family and growth and is that something that the school system would
consider since the Community School Program is only three years old it hasn't had the opportunity to
grow in a way that the French Immersion has and maybe it’s an opportunity for you to take a look at
that. So I thank you again, I don’t envy you the decision that you have to make and I look forward to
your responses to the questions. Thank you.
David Nelson
I just have one quick thing to say. My name is David Nelson. As far as I can tell reading over all your
projected costs and enrolments and future enrolments, it seems that you haven’t taken into account
the two to three, the three to five year growth of your French Immersion Program. All of your
options seem to fall short of the projected amount of students you’re gonna have. By the looks of it,
all the schools that you’re looking at now, New Era, Neelin, they all seem to be lacking in space. Say
you do keep your dual track program at New Era, okay, you're gonna be out of space. Say you move
everybody to Neelin and in three years you’re at eight or nine hundred French Immersion students
where the projected capacity is only 650. Then what, where do you put those people? Even your
new school that you estimated the cost for is only projected at about a 500 capacity and they're
saying that that now. Then what? You just spent $20 million. I just seem to think that maybe you
should look a little more closely at your options, look at the cost and look at the projected amount of
growth because everything seems to fall short right now. Thank you.
Kathy Boyd
Finally somebody shut me up, no. Two comments: One, speaking from experience, the best way to
learn another language is to be immersed in it, really and truly is, when you're living somewhere
where you can’t talk to anybody, you learn quickly. But my question would be, what's wrong with a
cap? We cap school attendance, we cap program attendants. Students can’t even get into the classes
they want because, oh guess what, numbers are capped. What is so different about this program that
it can't be capped when that is a standard operating procedure within the Division. If we can't afford
a specific school for the whole French Milieu that's going to be big enough to accommodate the
expansion, does the entire School Division have to give over to this? Why can’t we cap it? Thank you.
Anita Lemaire
My name is Anita Lemaire. I have a friend in Neelin’s Life Skills Program and New Era. We do not
agree with the changes being suggested. It is unfair for the French Immersion children because some
of their friends are in the English Program. It is unfair to the teenagers in the Life Skills Program
because everything would be in French. This would make it hard for them to understand or make
new friends. It would be complicated. Not once did the schools or School Board speak directly to any
of those students involved in these options. Why is it that we are supposed to be taught to have and
make choices but when it comes down to it, no one ever asked us.
Catherine Giesbrecht
Just one quick comment and I’m debating if I want a written answer. The reason my daughter is in
French Immersion is that it was the only enriched program in the city at the time of kindergarten.
Yes, I do want an answer. Are there any enriched programs for advanced, oh yeh, everyone’s child
is a genius I know, but are there any enriched programs? My example is I accidentally taught her
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how to read, she was reading at least grade one level books prior to entering grade one, for entering
kindergarten.
And from my experience of being boarded school, I didn't want her in a
normal/regular English Program, she would be bored. They would not advance place her directly
into you know, testing event place her, where else could I have put my daughter that she would be
challenged to learn and grow. French Immersion was the only option, Are there any other options
available in the Brandon School Division for those students that exceed the "normal level”. Thank
you.
Candice Sparks
I’ll try to make it short. sorry. My name is Candice Sparks. I have a child in the French Immersion
and I also have a niece in Life Skills Program, I also know a lot of the children here at Neelin. I love
both programs. The Life Skills Program is amazing and the same with the French Immersion. The
Life Skills Program at Neelin, it’s one of the best ones around, to support the needs of those children.
I'm going to guess that basically, decisions have already been made but we’re getting to pick one of
the lesser evils of all the options. There should have been other options that were never suggested.
If space is the true issue, then maybe that should be the factor that we're looking or focusing more on
than separating people and allowing segregation regards to the French language. We fight daily for
people with disabilities to be included in society, not excluded. And if the change comes to Neelin
High School, it's hard enough for these Life Skills children to speak and understand English, let alone
French, to understand or to learn that language. And also the focus has been on the children but also
that the teachers in the Life Skills Program, if everything is going to be in French, that excludes them
too. And I don't believe they signed up for that. Some of these kids also take mainstream classes.
I'm just wondering how are you going to support their education and upgrading if it goes all to
French. Then, would they lose those classes and how are you going to support them? I’m just
wondering if the damage made to help one situation can actually destroy another. I do not believe
any of this was truly thought out. Other programs are being cut all the time, yet it seems that,
financially you want to support these changes when I think there's other ones that are needing and
are greatly lacking. So, thank you for your time.
Ramona Coey
Wrap-up
Present: G. Buri, P. Bartlette (LATE), R. Coey, B. Jolly, D. Karnes, B. Mayes, J. Murray, M. Snelling.
Regrets: L. Ross
Attendance: Approximately 80 people
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Neelin Survey Sheets: Feedback
I am opposed to Grade 7-8 coming to Neelin if it is only Immersion kids as I think they would be
isolated. A dual track 7-12 milieu school would work if numbers warranted - but they don't. A new
school seems like a solution but I think our money is FAR better spent elsewhere. Keep the milieu at
New Era for K-8 and move the English kids out - it is the most efficient solution with the least
negative impact for students, families and staff.
To begin I do not oppose the improvements to the French programming in the BSD. I am opposed to
the disbursement of our English students. As a person of Aboriginal decent I understand how
language and culture can enrich your life. Also it is with great hope and trust in this elected BSD
Board that segregation in any of the options be disregarded as a non-option. Please, I urge you to
consider the message you send to ALL students. We as a community would take a huge step back
socially.
Other suggestion - add on to New Era School.
Option 3 - I feel this option is acceptable for the following reasons: more students could benefit from
Community School programming, many of the English students transition in and out moving into BG,
KG or EO would become their community school from K-8.
The loss of any catchment area school is appalling. Why are we even looking at this issue? The
Francophone school in Shilo will welcome French heritage students - go there. Given the increased
enrolment in BSD due to immigration - why not a Spanish school? We do not have space in the
system to accommodate the changes.
I enjoy going to school at Neelin and don't want to move to another high school. Where are you going
to put us? Both Crocus and Vincent Massey are big schools but both are heavily populated. How are
you going to fit us extra students in?
Currently satisfied with dual track French Immersion program as is; strongly opposed to moving
English program students out of New Era.
Would we be in this current situation if students had to be transferred from one English school to
another English school due to one school having surpassed its physical capacity? (I believe this has
previously occurred.) It's simply taking the opportunity of a school reaching its capacity and using it
to improve an educational program.
I strongly believe that the school board is getting ahead of themselves and not focusing on the real
issue at hand. We DO NOT NEED a new milieu school. We need to fix the problem of the capacity
issue before anything else is done. Also the point that we are a proud multicultural community which
also involves Spanish, Chinese, and others. What about them and learning a language that is not
already open as French is at New Era.
We will support whatever decision is made as we want our children in the French program no matter
what or where it is. Our concern is for the secondary level if Neelin becomes K-12 French. What
would happen to the options available to them in course selections if they went down to one or two
classes per grade?
Where are the staffing for French school going to come from, cleaners, etc.? Where are the English
Neelin students going to? Look at the cost. Move them to Green Acres School since you talked about
closing it fix the roof. We need three high schools in Brandon.
I really don't think a change is necessary. I like the "explore New Era" idea.
No need for milieu program. It is already successful. Tax dollars would be better spent on disabled
children and other priorities. There is no need to fix a program that is clearly not broken. French
Immersion is the most successful BSD program.
I believe that these options are all irresponsible choices. The French Immersion program needs to
stay at New Era and remain a dual track school. Population and growth concerns need to be
addressed by expanding New Era to accommodate ALL of its programs.
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Student enrolment in next five years will justify expansion. Expand the dual stream project.
Exclusionary polices are wrong and do not reflect the values and culture of the community of
Brandon. To put Lifeskills and downtown core children at a disadvantage in order to have a milieu
school is wrong.
Leave as is. If it ain't broke don't fix it. Dual track school - okay diverse - don't change. Great
neighbourhood - neighbourhood school more important than a program enhancement.
To Betty Gibson French Immersion 2009 Fall 50 (25 full time) Kindergarten 2010 Fall 50; 2009 - 50
Grade 1 - 2 classes 2010 - 50; 2009 - 25 Grade 2 - 1 class 2010 - 50; 2009 - 25 Grade 3 - 1 class - 2010
- 25; total 125 full-time students fall 2009 and 200 full time students fall 2010.
I would be okay with expanding New Era but with the same program. Please leave other schools
alone.
I am not against change as it can be good, but all pieces have to be considered before decisions are
made. What will happen to all involved? Are these options thought out?
Additional Comments
Option 1 - separation send message of segregation. Separate administration is an unnecessary cost.
High school students better prepares them for post secondary education. Option 2 - inefficient use of
a large school like New Era. Increased capacity due to increased enrolment in French Immersion is
not taken into account in this option. Option 3 - most fiscally responsible and logical. Option 4 insufficient capacity. Why reduce enrolment of schools which have the capacity for more students?
Option 5 - sends the message of segregation. Additional administrative costs not financially viable.
Doesn't address capacity issue. Option 6 - unrealistic.
Timing - needed to address space issue ASAP. Option 1 - not acceptable to separate (if this option
was chosen keep New Era as dual track.) Option 4 - will take time to build. Not big enough for
French Immersion students. Option 6 - great idea but will take too long.
Consider the costs and needs of all students.
Canadian for equal and fair treatment of all students.
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Brandon School Division
Public Consultation #3
Betty Gibson, April 22, 2009
Betty Gibson Transcript
Ramona Coey
Welcome and Opening Remarks including purpose and outcomes of meetings.
Doug Karnes
Overview Presentation of Proposed School – boundary and catchment changes.
Dr. D. Michaels
Overview of rules and etiquette public will follow for open mike.
Speakers
Susan Chyzyk
Good evening Dr. Michaels and members of the Board. My name is Susan Chyszk and I teach at New
Era School, Grades 1 and 2, in the English track. There are many parents of students from the English
track at New Era who would’ve liked to speak to the proposed options, however language is a barrier
for communication and many of our parents are uncomfortable in speaking in a public Consultation,
so thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak freely with regard to the options. I know that as
caring people you want to do what is best for everyone. And in a perfect world you would give us all
what we want and wish for. Unfortunately, it is not a perfect world and you are the people forced to
attend to the constraints of a budget. That awful word! Heart and passion for issues I realize must
sometimes be put aside for some financial planning. But first of all, I need to mention the one single
positive constant that I have heard throughout this entire debate and this is - New Era school is
awesome! The teachers at New Era school are awesome! I have been told on numerous occasions
that our school has a warm, friendly, vibrant atmosphere and our distinctly multicultural
environment is visible proof that all cultures can successfully work together. So why change it?
On that note I ask that you make every attempt to keep our school a dual track school and a
community school. I do realize you need to address the space issue and the continuing popularity
and growth of the French immersion program. I would like to draw your attention to the possibility
of perhaps making New Era school a K-5 primary International Baccalaureate school. I do realize
that many parents in the Immersion track do not want their children, who are presently in Grades 6 –
8, to go to Neelin High School. However, many Manitobans have received a very good education in
just this type of learning centre. Why did I chose those specific grades – K to 5? Well, I will tell you - I
was one of six teachers from New Era who was fortunate enough to be trained in Level One at the
Primary Years International Baccalaureate program. The IB directors designed this program for
Grades K to 5. If this program is to be implemented within the division, and I believe that is the
intention at some point, than a primary IB school would be an ideal learning center for both tracks. I
believe it is difficult for Early Years teachers and students to speak French only all day simply
because they need to make themselves understood in language common to both at some point
throughout the day at school. By the times the students reach the sixth grade they would have
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adequate comprehension of the French language and a Milieu program would be most beneficial at
that point in time. I would like to wrap up by reading a portion of the IB mission statement:
“The International Baccalaureate Organization aims to develop inquiring, knowledgeable and caring
young people who help to create a better and more peaceful world through intercultural
understanding and respect. To encourage students across the world to become active, compassionate
and lifelong learners who understand that other people with their differences can also be right.”
I’m not saying that this philosophy isn’t in part already addressed in the French Immersion
classroom and English classroom and I'm certain it would be considered just as important in the
proposed Milieu program. However the IB program deliberately integrates the philosophy into all
curriculum outcomes by way of the inquiry process. New Era would be the ideal multicultural
environment to implement this primary years program for the French Immersion students, first
nation students and the EAL students. Thank-you.
Karen Forsythe
My name is Karen Forsythe. I am a parent of a student in Grade 3 in the French Immersion program
at New Era School. I stand here today to say that I support the French Milieu program option. The
Brandon School Division has just hosted an Excellence in Education Day at the Westman Auditorium.
Studies have shown that the Milieu setting provides the best education to children enrolled in a
French Immersion program. Why settle for the second best if we are promoting and striving for
excellence? No matter what program my child was enrolled in, if I was told there was a better way of
educating him, I would still be standing here and saying that I support the best educational program
available to my child. What parent wouldn't? Please base your decision regarding better French
Immersion education on fact.
The decision to improve the French Immersion learning experience is complicated by the fact that
there is a space issue at the school. The building is at or beyond capacity for next year. With space
available in other schools, it is not likely that a new facility or addition will receive government
funding. In all likelihood some students currently attending New Era we'll have to go to a different
school, regardless of the Milieu question. How would the issue of space be dealt with if New Era was
a single language school? Much of the criticism of the options presented by the Board of Trustees at
the previous Consultations imply a direct connection between the betterment of one program and
the cost of another. That somehow what would benefit one student , would disadvantage another.
To help ease public concern if a move of students is agreed upon, then I think it would be worthwhile
for the school Trustees to address issues regarding student transportation to possible new schools
and potential allocation of teaching and support resources to those schools. Parents need
reassurance that a move to another school does not mean diminished access to quality educational
opportunities and resources. The issue is not about the building called New Era, it is about striking
for better education.
I would like to remind the Board of Trustees that they are entrusted with providing the best
educational opportunities for all Brandon School Division students. Every child deserves the
opportunity to let their light shine brightly, without regard to race, socio-economic status or program
choice. Thank-you.
POINT OF PRIVILEGE:
Trustee Mayes:
We would encourage anyone to come up who wants to present, even if you have presented at
previous meetings, or if you are a staff member. We have heard from a number of staff members.
One of the staff members who has spoken tonight indicated some concern about some of the parents
at New Era. We are certainly conscious that this school actually has a greater aboriginal enrolment
than New Era in raw numbers and is close to 50%. That's one of the reasons we've actually put
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some more resources into some targeted programs in our last budget. So, if people are worried that
certain parents are not being heard at New Era, I think we are very conscious as well that that is not
the only school in the division that has aboriginal enrolment. Certainly the numbers are higher at
George Fitton and the raw numbers are higher here. Thank-you.
Patricia ________
Hi. I am Patricia ______ from Earl Oxford School and I would like to thank the Trustees for allowing
us to have a part in this.
I believe that living with diversity is a big part of education. I think that having a mixture of people in
a school is a great part of all students’ education. However, I think that if we were playing “Sim City”
we would click a button and there would be a new school for all the French kids with all the
amenities. That would be wonderful. But it can’t happen that way.
I don’t support the French Milieu. I don't understand it. I don't know - I don't believe that it is even
the issue. I think that the issue is entirely of space. I know there are four kindergarten classes this
year in the French Immersion program. There are eight other elementary schools. That means that
one-third of Brandon families are choosing to put their children in French Immersion. If this
continues, there is just not enough space. At some point maybe you will have to look at what part of
the City these people are coming from and maybe chose another school and you will have to have a
second French school.
I can't say what will happen in the future if things keep going the way they are. But for now , it seems
to me that if you did move the French 's kids out of New Era that it would only leave a small
number of English speaking people at that school and the school wouldn’t be viable. So it seems that
it is inevitable that the English students would have to move out. That is very sad!
But a primary concern would be the safety and well being of all those families that have to move. We
know from Fleming School about moving schools and we would ask that you don’t move our kids
again. We have done that already. I know it could be an idea that the bussed kids are transferred to
Alexander or wherever and I don’t want to see that happen.
Jane McCannell
Thank-you for allowing us to share our concerns with you. I am Jane McCannell.
I come to you first of all as a parent of five graduates of the Brandon School Division. My children
loved the years spent in the schools they have attended and they have often recalled great memories
of those years. We feel our children received a very good education and had wonderful experiences.
Two of our children graduated with a French Immersion certificate and consider themselves
bilingual. A few years ago they spent some time in France and were very grateful for acquiring the
language because this helped them enjoy France all the more. Last month, while visiting Honduas,
one of them found French helpful in understanding some of the Spanish.
I also come to you as a school guidance counselor at New Era school. There will be children who can
attest to this that I Love My Job! as I say it all the time. I love working with the students and helping
them with their feelings. I love New Era School just the way it is. I know there is a space issue. But
right now it is like a mini-Canada. So much diversity! It is so culturally enriched.
I am not opposed to a French Milieu school. But I think the students who would be attending such a
school would be missing out big time. Missing the cultural flavour! Our world has always been
changing. It seems to be changing even faster these times. Having a French Milieu School seems to be
going backwards – almost old-fashioned. Not embracing the vastness and wealth of diversity we
have right here in Brandon as Canadians.
My opposition comes in displacing our catchment area students. I fell this is almost morally wrong
because this is their school. For some of our students this is their safe place. New Era needs to
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continue and grow as a designated community school filling it with services provided to the families
in our area. Please, I ask you, do not give consideration to Option #3! Thank-you.
Jill Simmons
Hello, my name is Jill Simmons and I come here tonight as a parent of two children in Earl Oxford
School and as the Chair of the Earl Oxford Parent Council.
My primary cause for comment tonight is on Option #3. I don't feel like I am entitled to have a
particularly strong opinion as to whether the Milieu School is the best way to go for children in the
French immersion program currently, because that's not the path we have chosen.
So I do want to comment about Option #3, because certainly we can see presented with the financial
and the timeline data on the different options that it seems to me that Option #3 would be favoured
from a financial and timeline perspective because we are looking at lower costs and a faster timeline.
However, I have definite reservations that I just wanted to share tonight. I just had a quick look here
at the implementation costs and I see that the two items listed there are for moving expenses and
furniture and miscellaneous supplies. And what I don't see on there is any transportation that would
be offered for the children the currently live in the New Era catchment area who would now be asked
to attend these three other schools.
As Earl Oxford is a K-8 school that is on the corner of 18th Street and Victoria Avenue and as we all
saw in the Brandon Sun in the last couple of months that is considered to be the second most
dangerous corner in Brandon as far as the number of traffic accidents that occur at that spot. I think
unfortunately, it's a matter of probability that at some point in the future a student will be involved in
one of those traffic accidents. My great concern is that the more students we have that we require to
cross both Victoria and 18th Street (if they are coming from the New Era catchment area) the higher
that probability will be of an accident involving a student. Of course the younger that we ask those
children to transport themselves to school across those two busy thoroughfares again I feel that
increases the probability of an accident that would involve a student. So that would be my primary
concern with Option #3.
My secondary concern I guess about Option #3 is just as a parent of children who are in Earl Oxford
and originally started at a closer neighbourhood school, which was Fleming, and then moved over to
Earl Oxford which is personally less favourable for us. And as a taxpayer and property owner, north
of Victoria Avenue and between, I believe it is 30th Street that Valleyview is on, and First Street it is
my great concern to imagine the Brandon of five or ten years from now that does not have a
neighbourhood school - a neighbourhood school that is offering English programming for families
that live between, First Street and 26th Street on to 30th Street north of Victoria. It is just my
concern about demographics of that area; about the property values in that area, and about what the
City would look like in future years if that were an option. I think it's certainly very reasonable to
expect that families would like to live in a neighbourhood where there is a neighbourhood school
that the children could attend. And of course, it is also my concern that currently we know that the
New Era catchment area is one of the areas of the City that has lower property values and is thus
more affordable to people who may not have all the money in the world. So it is my concern that
we're asking people who are already somewhat challenged socio-economically to make another
consideration in terms of transportation, that may or may not be safe to a neighbourhood school
that’s farther away than I personally would feel comfortable with my children walking to and from
school in early years. Thank-you.
Devryn Ross
Devryn Ross and I have a very short comment just to correct the information that the previous
speaker conveyed. If New Era was to close an English language school, I think we all know that in
fact there would be no English language educational opportunity from Riverview School to the East,
which is significantly further than First Street. Valleyview is on Clement Drive, which is further West
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than 30th Street. From Victoria North all the way to Kirkcaldy Drive, where Kirkcaldy School is, there
is a massive black hole in the middle of Brandon. I know it's not part of your mandate to consider
planning issues or the impact of the lack of a school on property values but in terms of the growth of
the City and downtown revitalization - that is a huge issue.
Giselle Perreaux
Hello Again. My name is Giselle Perreaux and I have spoken to you before when teachers met at New
Era and then again last week. I just want to make one clarification, I started a New Era then went
on to O’Kelly, Green Acres, Meadows, Betty Gibson for one ½ year and then on back again at New
Era. What I have noticed at every school - every school has its own flavor - its own culture within
the school that you celebrate over and over again. And yes, you would never hear me say that New
Era doesn’t have a fantastic culture as it is now. It is to be celebrated just as it is in every school.
I was at Meadows for nine years and I saw wonderful things happening with all our EAL students.
Last year we had a huge assembly celebrating Filipino dancers, EL Salvadoran guitarists,
Taekwondo. We saw just a huge variety of dances and drums - people brought their instruments.
When I was at Betty Gibson we had this wonderful feast because we were celebrating French and
that was because we had Shelia ___ in here and she was a fantastic cook. So whoever is here, the staff,
the students, the parents, make it so.
So we will celebrate a culture wherever we are. I don’t want people to get the impression we are a
Milieu School so therefore we only celebrate what is known as the French culture. We are more than
that.
Eddie Hudson
Hi. How’s it going? I’m Eddie Hudson. I spoke on the first night of this awhile ago. I am going to
make a point on it again, one I haven’t heard very much of. I’m currently a student at Brandon
University, in my fourth year. One thing I noticed in the job market - a deciding factor of most
employers – it says right on the application: Are you bilingual? I really believe that if I spoke French
my chances of having a better paying job for the summer or even as a career, would probably
improve.
A lot of the issues that have been discussed over the past few days have been not having a lot of
money to send your child somewhere and I completely understand and am very sympathetic.
However, in the same breath, if you were having money troubles would you not want your child to
learn French to the best their ability so that in the future they would have a high paying job and
they would never have any kind of problems with money. It just makes sense to me!
A lot of statistics have said that the Milieu is by far the best way to educate your children.
Statistically this is proven. It was proven that they have higher test scores in all areas, including
English. It just makes sense! So I am completely in support of Milieu. I think that it would be great
for the economy if we had people who held higher paying jobs. Who would have money and then
go out and spend their money. And then all of a sudden our economy looks a little bit better. It just
makes sense! Thanks.
Ray Brunka
I am somewhat reluctant to get up and speak. My name is Ray Brunka and I have a granddaughter
who is at New Era school. Now, you said we can ask questions, but that you won’t be answering
them. Is there any specific reason why, if it is a simple question, that we can’t get an answer? That is
a question too.
(Dr. Michaels)
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Mr. Brunka the thinking behind not answering questions tonight was that if we have a large crowd of
people and we have a number of questions some of them might be repetitive. But if your question is
pretty direct I'm sure that the trustees might entertain answering it tonight, but I will ask them their
views on that.
O.K. One question for example, if you have the French Immersion and you go right through until you
graduate, would you be considered to be bilingual, or would you have to go through a Milieu
education?
(Dr. Michaels) If you graduated from the French Immersion program with good levels of competence
in spoken and written French in high levels by the end of Grade 12, you would be considered to be
bilingual. What a Milieu program does is that it strengthens the use of the language because the
language is the language of discourse on a daily basis. Does that answer your question Sir?
Partially. Yeah - because there are going to be a lot of students in French Immersion right now
where the parents don't speak French, even though they may have taken it years ago in high school
for two or three years. I know I took it. I can tell you how to open the door and close the window
but I can’t even order a beer in French, but I can do it in Spanish. But we are always told that we got
to take care of our kids. The more time you spend with your kids you find out what they are doing;
where they play; their education. Get involved with them. If you don't speak French, how are you
supposed to get involved with the child in the Milieu school with their homework. It's impossible! So
now the child is going to suffer there.
I haven't heard anyone speak here tonight, and this is the first meeting that I have been at, that has
been down on the Milieu school. But I what I want to see is that Option #3 – I would like to know
what happens to the children who don’t take French at a Milieu school. Does that mean they have to
leave? And if that is the case, and they want to take French through the French Immersion where do
they go? - If they're in the junior grades.
The other question that I have is on Option #5 which is basically what you got at New Era now, the
only difference would be is that you need a new PA system. You got a split down the middle and
basically you segregate the French students from the rest of them and there is a big multicultural
group in there. So I don't see anything good coming out of there. It is like you are trying to fix
something that isn’t broken. I am surprised that this has come up in the first place.
If the Milieu school was that important to the Board and some parents out there, and there are many
out there, then why haven’t you sat down and tried to determine where you can get a school, not
necessarily today, I'm sure the French Immersion would be able to carry those children until such a
time that you have a proper facility, rather than pulling kids out from here and sending them over
there. I can tell you that my granddaughter in all probability if New Era goes French Milieu she's not
going to be taking French and that's a crime. That’s a crime in itself. The reasons that we started her
down there is so that eventually she would be bilingual.
I went for a Government job once and the guy asked me if I was bilingual. Not thinking I said “yeah”.
So he starts talking to me in French and I said “No, sorry I don’t speak French”. And he said “Well,
you said you were bilingual.” I said “No I am Polish and English”. Now if you say bilingual yes its
been drummed into our heads over the years. Yeah I’m sorry I didn’t spend more time in those
classes – I could have at least ordered the beer. But I don't wanna see my granddaughter have to go
through that because I wanna see her get a good education. I want to see her get a bilingual
education and I want to see her be the best that she can be. But in the same token I'm not gonna be
around, I’m getting to old now, I most likely won’t be around when she's going to be graduating. But
if my daughter doesn't speak French, she won’t be able to help her along the way. That is going to be
the hardest part for the kids. It's the kids that we got to start thinking about not the parents and not
anybody else. Their safety and their education - this is what it is all about. Thank-you.
Ian Calkner
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Good evening, Dr. Michaels. My name is Ian Calkner. I have two children in French Immersion. I
guess I'm more speaking to Mr. Brunka. I went to New Era School. My parents sent me to French
Immersion. My father is probably one of the biggest “unFrench” people you could ever meet. One of
my greatest joys - I was of coming home in about my third month of French Immersion having
learned the words “Grand Crapaud” . I see we have people who know French. My Dad did not! So
every time he kind of angered me I would just say, with a nice smiling face - I would just say “Daddy,
Tu est un Grand Crapaud!” He thought I was just the smartest kid ever. Two years later my sister
started French Immersion and revealed to him that I had been calling him a large toad. Yes, I still
have trouble sitting when I have that memory.
I went through French Immersion all the way sir. My dad could not help me except for the fact that
math - 2 plus 2 looks - the same in French and English. So my math was not a problem. W hen it
came down to the English reading which is 25% of the curriculum still, he didn’t have a problem.
Although his reading is still a challenge for himself.
As far as the French language went there wasn’t a lot of French language homework. In the early
grades from Kdgn. to Grade 3 there is very little that is sent home in French. The interviews are not
conducted in French. Written material is all written for English people. After that, yes, you do start
to get some dictee work in French. It’s 10 words. My daughter’s in Grade 3 right now, she gets ten
words every couple weeks that she has to learn. She bounces them off of me. It’s fine. I get the
French. But I did the same thing to my father. He couldn't say much, but he was at least there for me.
My teachers are the ones that would help me along with that. My father eventually got to the point
that on nights like tonight he could actually watch the Montreal Canadiens play on one channel and
flip back to the Maple Leafs on another. And he would know that there was a goal because he would
ask doesn’t that “Il _____” mean a goal. Yes Dad. So he actually learned from me. So having your
children in French and being an Anglophone should not be a scary proposition.
French Immersion has been in Brandon now since the mid seventies. It originally started in
Riverview School which, if you look at the demographics, there's no francophone population there.
The French Milieu shouldn’t be a scary thing either. Really all it is eliminating the announcements in
English in the morning; O’Canada is played in French; the principal comes on and speaks to the
students in French; the teachers talk to each other in the hallways and greet each other in French;
the students on the playground are encouraged to use French. That’s all the Milieu is really about.
And again, to the Board I had to explain that to my father because he was trying to chew my head off.
“I don’t know what this Milieu word – blah, blah, blah” So I have been trying to encourage him that
“Dad it is just French Immersion in a larger scale.” Thank-you.
Joy Hamilton
My name is Joy Hamilton. I have taught at New Era School for a long time. I spoke on the first night
and wasn’t going to speak tonight, but I just have a couple of – well one main question that parents
have asked about. Parents who do have many children in New Era school, more than a couple, are
asking me - What happens to those children should choice number three be chosen? Do their
children all go to separate schools? Are their children split up and sent to separate schools or
are they all in one school? Many parents, you have heard this before – don’t have vehicles and if
they do maybe only one drives. Parents can’t get to that school if the other parent is at work with the
car. So anyway, that is a big issue for many of the parents. There is quite a few EAL parents that have
been here for a while - for a few years and have bought homes right in close to New Era School. And
just to remind you again, a lot of parents - French Milieu is fine – their big thing is again their
community and how they going to get themselves to their child’s school. So that’s the one question will they be going to different schools? Thank-you.
Unidentified Female
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I’m a New Era parent. My oldest started here in Grade 2 and our other children started here in
Kindergarten. (Dr. Michaels – Your name please) I chose to keep it to myself. Our oldest attended a
very, very small rural school with a population of less than 50 at Kindergarten. Grade 1 at Winnipeg
in what was called a small school there, at about 150 French Immersion and since then they have
been here at New Era.
I think it's good that the School Division has undertaken this review – whether required or chosen - I
think that's good. It’s a little disappointing in looking at this that the status quo is not one of your
options. I wonder if the wider picture has been looked at. You are in close proximity - you are a
small geographic area - the Brandon School Division. You are in close proximity to a lot of school
divisions. In particular you have a French School Division school that isn't that far away. And a
number of students that my children had started with have now chosen that option. Or is that any
possibility under this review process? My husband and I are English speakers so that maybe doesn’t
work for us.
I also think yes probably what's best for an individual student in Immersion is one way to go but it
does take a community to raise a child and to support a family. And the diversity at New Era, I think
isn't bad. Some of the things that come home around our supper table, have been very interesting
over the years. But I guess our perspective on it is it's been good to be able to have open and
complete and honest discussions about what has come off the playground or out of the hallway or off
the school bus while our children are still young enough that we know something. Because we're
slowly approaching the year - the stage - our oldest leaves the program this year where we're not
going to know too much for a few years. And I just wonder in passing if our kids had not had access
to what is here, if we would not have had the learning that comes from a mixed community and a
wide diversity of cultures, of languages, of socio-economic background. We made the effort to put
them there which is a lot more work for us. And into a couple of other things that's a lot more work
and expense for us. But hopefully they will come to be good community citizens from that to. So, you
know, I guess I would recommend to you to consider the status quo and to consider the French
School Division as part of this process. Because if those hard questions don't come home while the
kids are brave enough to ask them, it might be a little to late in middle years and high school years.
Angel Brunka
Hi. My name’ s Angel Brunka and my daughter is at New Era in the French Immersion program. I
hear a lot of people talking that the New Era program is just that - it’s all French. The big issue I think
that we are missing - that if we become a Milieu we are going to be displacing children and moving
them from their environment that they're used to. I don't think that the ramifications of them
moving, either be psychological, because we do know that children sometimes have emotional
issues when they are being displaced and moving and having to go from New Era to another school.
I know for myself that is the biggest issue that I have with being a one track French.
I don’t have an issue with the Milieu school but maybe not at the New Era location. Maybe look at
possibly the number six version or maybe even looking at a new school. Possible look at how many
other kids are taking French Immersion in the other school division and maybe combining them
together and see if possibly you could maybe work with the other school out in Shilo. See if there is
something that could come together so you could build a bigger school and actually have children in
there who could facilitate it - so that the whole cultural thing will be there, through the Westman area
as well as the Brandon area. I know for myself that is the most upsetting thing because I know there
is a lot of cultures that go to New Era and that was one of the things that I found was really
impressive and I really liked the fact that my daughter would be able to interact with people who
spoke Spanish and aboriginal people and a wide variety of people. I really think that we have to look
at the ramifications of these things and what is going to be in the best interest of all the children. The
English speaking that are going to be moved and the ramifications. As well as the one track French.
Thank-you.
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R. Coey
Wrap-up, next steps and thanks.
Present: P. Bartlette, R. Coey, B. Jolly, D. Karnes, B. Mayes, J. Murray, M. Snelling.
Regrets: B. Buri, L. Ross
Attendance: Approximately 30 people
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Betty Gibson Survey Sheets: Feedback
Other options? Safety concerns re: displacing kids across busy roadways. Demographic concerns re: no
English program offered north of Victoria from Riverview to Valleyview.
Disruption of students is not the best for their mental health and studies. Change is not the best answer.
Build a milieu school and keep the French immersion going. Don't allow students to drop French.
I strongly disagree with the whole idea - it promotes segregation, student hierarchy, favouritism to one
specific group. Why is a very small segment of the population being catered to? We have more
Aboriginal, Spanish and other ethnic speaking people than we do French. Are we going to build a new
school for each of them? I reject using my tax dollars to fund the project in any form.
I feel all options need to be worked out with a reasonable time frame. If new buildings need to be built
then there should be no changes until all things are finished and ready for occupancy. No child should be
displaced.
Decide on the value of the programming. Strive for excellence in all areas of education. Look at the facts.
All children deserve the best education that can be made available to them.
Don't understand enough to vote. Have 3 kids French Immersion, one in Grade 9 will quit if made to leave
Neelin. Money is always a problem, space is always a problem. Where is it coming from now. Many kids,
not just French Immersion will be displaced from what they know. English is still majority subject, should
be focusing on French?
I'm afraid that this motion was done in the interest of a very few select students in Brandon. There are
many issues and problems with the quality of education being provided in the English system that should
be addressed. First taxes are taking a huge increase so your timing on suggesting this type of expenditure
is very poor - recession. There is a French only school at Shilo so you can bus these people who are
expecting special treatment to that school.
How about a seventh option - keep things as they are. Why does change have to be made? I do not
support any of the six options listed because I do not understand why the change is being made.
Would New Era continue its French Immersion even with Option 6? Is Brandon big enough to support a
French milieu and current French Immersion? Will Island Lakes School be built regardless the option
chosen?
Leave as is. Neighbourhood school - great need - leave it alone. Very diverse school. Why fix it if it is not
broken?
Option seven - status quo. Option 8 - review options with French School Division.
I see no need for a French milieu school.
It's been several years that we are here, coming from Mexico. Since this time, my three children are at
New Era School. We do not agree that my children are separated to different schools. We live near the
school, put my children in a school far from my house would be walking on more street very dangerous
and that is not safe.
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Public Consultation #4
Harrison, April 23, 2009
Harrison Transcript
Ramona Coey, Vice Chair, Board of Trustees
Welcome and Opening Remarks including purpose and outcomes of meetings.
Board of Trustees Present:
Mr. Doug Karnes, Bea Jolly, Jim Murray, Brian Mayes, Marty Snelling, and Dr. Linda Ross sends her
regrets.
Senior Administration Present:
Dr. Donna Michaels, Mr. Greg Malazdrewicz, Mr. Gerald Barnes
Speakers
Sandra Kock Gensoriak
Good evening. My name is Sandra Kock Gensoriak and I have a child in Harrison school here. I
would like to take this opportunity to thank you all for allowing the parents, and the general public to
have an opportunity to present our opinions not only on the options for implementing the French
new school within the Brandon School Division but to be able to raise their concerns regarding the
issue itself. It is unfortunate that the board put the cart before the horse in this instance. I give
credit to those Trustees who are willing to admit to this error in judgment and agree to backtrack
and open these consultations to more than just speaking on the options themselves.
In reading through the chronology of events as posted on your Division website, a number of red
flags went off from you regarding the process but the past is the past and we have to move forward.
Personally, I’m not against the implementation of a French Milieu School and I fully agree that if
someone is totally immersed in a language, and that’s any language, learning it in this manner,
they’re better able to learn it. And that should also include the opportunity to learn about the specific
culture itself. I just don’t want to see the French Milieu Program brought in at the expense of other
individuals. That's why I'm having some difficulty with the options you’ve put forth.
I also don’t understand what the rush is in making your decision. I’m wondering if it’s the prospect
of an upcoming election and the fear that the issue might die with the new Board. I also wonder why
at the Facilities Committee meeting on January 8, 2009, they agreed to direct Senior Administration
to work with New Era Administrators in developing a facility usage plan for the fall of 2009.
Requesting the report include: rear entrance (??) classroom usage, moving students from the north
end between the tracks and the river to another school and moving the New Era grades 7 and 8’s to
Neelin High School. And they require this report for this April. (??) Pardon me for my sense of
mistrust but these scenarios are vaguely similar to the options presented for the implementation of
the French Milieu School. I can’t help wondering if you've already made up your minds and this is an
exercise in futility, or is it an honest approach to dealing with the overcrowding issues in the
Division.
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Anyway, for Option One, as a parent, I wouldn’t want my 12 year old grade 7 child attending a high
school setting. And I also question that with the number of students presently at Neelin, which is
about 717, do they really have the space to accommodate this.
For Option Two, I don't understand that with 1015 students in Crocus, 890 in Vincent Massey and
717 in Neelin, how can you eliminate one high school? Where are those 717 students going to be
placed? Our high schools are already difficult to get into due to numbers. And then what happens to
the Life Skills students? Are they immersed in the French Milieu Program or do they receive their
own P.A. system, their own principal and their own clerical staff to maintain their programming as a
separate entity?
For Option Three, if you move the English speaking students out of New Era, will there not be a need
for more bussing and some of the children then might fall outside the 1.8 km. range, and that requires
that. Also, would you guarantee that you will add the Pow Wow and Drumming Program
opportunities to Betty Gibson, Earl Oxford and King George so these students don’t lose their
opportunity to learn about their own heritage, or do they lose out at the expense of others. I’m also
concerned about seeing an increase in absenteeism amongst the displaced students during the
winter months. To be honest, if I didn't have the luxury of owning a vehicle so I could drive my son to
school, once the weather turned -27 or lower, I wouldn’t send him.
For Option Four, sorry, go back to Option Three - Also the school's capacity I understand is 550
students and if you have 427 K - 8 students for French Milieu plus 129 9 - 12 students, you’ve got 549
students. Now if there was an increase in enrolment which I’ve heard amongst the Kindergarten
class for next year there is, you’d already have an overcrowding issue. of shops and forest they get
real. (???) Do you really believe that the Public Schools Finance Board will ever give you funding for a
new school in Island Lake or anywhere else. It would be great! I’d have a school in my backyard but
with the costs of the new school plus the renovations proposed to George Fitton is this fiscally
responsible? You weren’t able to get the 1.5 million to repair Fleming or funds to build a new school
on that side a few years ago, so how could there be funds for a new school now with the recession?
Also does George Fitton have a space to accommodate 400 students. They have 292 students this
year and there were about 362 last year and due to space concerns are only a K – 5 school. The grade
six students attend Harrison. Also which should still continue to accommodate the 3-4-5 Nursery
School students at George Fitton and how would they fit into the French Milieu Program.
For Option Five, that’s one I might be able to live with, but I do worry about totally separating two
groups of students within the same school. Would you not be asking for the development of an “us
and them” mentality within the school. And also for the school, it’s already having issues with
overcrowding so how does that solve the problem?
And Option Six, since the majority of the French Immersion students are already bussed, meaning
they're not attending school in their own catchment area anyway, but rather school of choice, it
should not be much different to bus them to a school of their own. To me this would be the only way
to provide a true program with the least amount of disruption for all students. But again, the
problem is getting funding from the Public Schools Finance for it, and that’s highly unlikely. So let me
give you some thoughts and questions for consideration.
If you're looking at funding to do renovations, no matter what option you choose, what about the
library building downtown as a school or what about a portion of ACC.? There’s already even an
available gym and would likely need very little renovations. Now if the fire college were to move into
ACC, what about their building. Would there be some Federal funding assistance for building a new
French Milieu School or to renovate an existing building since you’re offering the opportunity for
future leaders of our country to get the best possible education in our second national language. I
would suggest you go back to the drawing board and revisit all of your options plus some new ones.
You’ll likely need to extend your timeline but what’s the rush? It would be great if you would form a
specific committee comprised of a representative from the Board in general, a representative from
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Brandon School Division
the Facilities Committee, someone from Senior Administration, and parent representatives from both
the English and French streams at New Era. The committee could take a look at all avenues and the
pros and cons to ensure that they would be thoroughly explored as well as long term considerations
such as available programming to all students and the Division-wide overcrowding issue. I’m sure
these are all planned for. Then a decision to implement the French new school could be put in place
with least disruption to all. This way the new program or school, once it’s fully operational, you can
look at it and say, here's our French Milieu School and it’s one of the best in the province.
What do we all want for our children, well, just don’t forget, this time, please put the horse in front of
the cart.
Jean Valcourt
Hello, my name is Jean Valcourt and I’m the Life Skills teacher at George Fitton School. I’m a teacher
in the Primary Life Skills program. Should George Fitton become the Milieu School, the Life Skills
Program was to remain at George Fitton. For many reasons, integration is an integral part of
programming, as much to the benefit of typical students as to those in program. In this evening’s
presentation I have heard the word “separate” six times. In view of the Provincial and Divisional
commitment to integration, I’m concerned that there will no longer be opportunities to facilitate this.
How will George Fitton meet the needs of those for inclusion?
Pat Bowslaugh
Bonswa, shama pow, (Sp.? – French) Pat Bowslaugh. Shame, francaise, very much, mei, That is the
end of my French. I mean to share with you two main points but I have to wind them in. As a student
in the public school system, I was exposed to French and passed French every year from grades 7 to
grade 12 and today my competency is less than an average in reading French, conjugating verbs,
translating French into English or English into French, but I do get by. However, I would never ever
ever say that I was competent in French.
I want to dwell for a moment on my years experience at George Fitton School. I initially taught at
George Fitton School for five years at the onset of my career. And, eighteen years later, exactly, I
returned to George Fitton in an administrative position and remained there for seven years. During
those seven years I came to really love, appreciate and feel really proud of George Fitton School. It
was in the opinion of many, a landmark school. The children were excellent, the staff was supportive
and forward thinking, the parents were exemplary and supporting the school and the needs of the
children were being met because at that time there were government grants that were available to
address the needs of the students.
And many of the students had changed in their needs
dramatically from when I had been there eighteen years before. I know that as a board member you
deal with those kinds of challenges constantly but through the extra grants we were able to establish
many innovative programs. And so I want to make the point that an innovative program is not out of
my purview and support. However, the children at George Fitton School, as I knew them when I left,
were children with a variety of intense needs that could not be ignored or swept under the carpet.
And even though it is now fifteen years later since I left that school, I would assume that the students
are in a similar position. And much like what Jean just said in terms of the special needs, that was a
component that was near and dear to my heart and highly supported with the integrative model so
that the children who did not have those physical and learning challenges were integrated with the
children who could be role models to them. And vice versa, the children who were in the regular
stream were very enriched by their interaction with the students who did have learning challenges
and were therefore in the Life Skills Program.
At the end of seven years I was called to the office, with trepidation I might add, and that trepidation
centered around “what was I being called to the office” because even as an adult, you kind of shake in
your boots. So the superintendents of the day said “Well Pat, why do you think that you're here at
the office?” and I said well, indeed, when I got the phone call a few minutes ago, I did have a few
trepidations and I thought it through and I thought why I haven’t messed up lately so I shouldn’t get
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an admonishment and therefore I won’t be getting a pink slip and it was this time of year so I guess,
when I didn't ask for transfer I can't imagine what it would be. And they said, “Ah, well the last one
is the one we're talking about. We want you to go to O’Kelly”. Now for most of you here, you know
that O’Kelly is outside the city limits and so I did a mental take on what I knew about O’Kelly School. I
might add that I had students from O’Kelly School in some of the special programs that were already
in place at George Fitton School. And almost simultaneously I said to the superintendents of the day
and this was not in any way intended to reflect negatively on them, I said, I'm not qualified. And they
said, what do you mean you're not qualified? Well, it’s as simple as this: I do not speak French. I am
not bilingual. That school is a dual track school. And they said, “Well”, and this is where I’m getting
on kind of soft ground, they said “We’re more interested in a principal that can look after that school
and get it to become a Brandon school than we are worried about the French program right now.”
And I'm going to use a really nasty word but my philosophy had always been that I did not want
French bastardized in any school where I was the principal. That meant that I felt very strongly that
if there was a French program you had to have competent, competent people to teach that program. I
knew that I was not competent and I was in a stress mode when I did accept the position. But
fortunately at the time Carol Harvey was the French Consultant and I had a very good friend in the
person of Sylvia Taggart, who was at the time, the principal of New Era and between the two of them
I said “Teach me some phrases so I can communicate with these children so they at least understand
that I support them being in the dual track French Immersion Program”. So we sort of got through
that component. But the second component that arose and I actually as I walked in I saw one of the
candidates from this next situation, we didn't always have a full component of teachers so we needed
French teachers.
You've all heard of the needle in the haystack and that is the concern that I bring to you tonight.
Because if we were hiring a person for the regular program, we had literally stacks of applicants to
choose from. Now, O’Kelly is only twenty minutes away and I know that it became a challenge for
people wanting to go outside the city, but in reality when I was needing a French teacher, the
pickings were slim to zero. You literally had to go out and beat the bushes to find someone who was
competent in speaking and reading and writing French. The point that I want to make is that it's one
thing to find a person who can speak and read and write French satisfactorily but you want a person
that can just do that, you want a master teacher who knows the pedagogy of teaching, who knows the
curriculum, knows how to implement the curriculum, deliver lessons, assess the students,
communicate to the students and the parents and to run a reasonable ship where the behaviour is
respectful and a positive learning environment. And finding those kinds of people, it's a real tough
challenge. I am going to take the liberty of saying that in speaking with other principals who have
been in a dual track situation, this has been a challenge for them as well.
So my bottom line is be careful what you wish for because you might get it. But getting it is one thing,
implementing it in a very excellent manner is the real real challenge and I don't know, I haven't been
able to be at other hearings to see or hear if other people have brought this up but it is from firsthand
experience that I give fair warning and worry a lot about the job ahead of you in getting competent
staff, competent support staff in custodial, in secretarial and competent people as parent volunteers
because the schools that I’ve been at have run to the betterment of all when their parent volunteers
that are on base. So thank you very much.
Bev Warren
My name is Bev Warren. I was a support worker here in Brandon and now I’m a community liaison. I
go into many, many homes and I’m very concerned about the core area and the families in there.
Because times are tough, the buck don’t go as far as it used to and sometimes there’s not even a buck
in the house. So my concern is the transportation of the children. Whose cost is that going to be?
And the lunch program, if they have to pay for that and if they can't, how is that going to affect their
kids school? Thank you.
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Debbie English
Good evening. My name is Debbie English. I don't speak French but I wish I did and I did understand
you Pat. My second language is music and as a classically trained violinist, I believe this language is
universal. We know and understand and in education the arts increases comprehension and
literacy. This is a truth. We also know learning a second language increases comprehension and
literacy as well.
There are other truths that we know or we should know, but some choose to disregard these truths
because of their own agendas. The best education in the world cannot simply cannot replace
compassion, caring and a sense of community. To enhance the French Immersion Program at the
expense of the English speaking children is simply wrong. Many special needs have been identified
in the core area, an example would be the Breakfast Program. This program which benefits many
children who would not otherwise get breakfast would be lost if they are bussed to other schools in
more affluent parts of the community.
If space is one of the issues, the French Immersion kids are already been bussed from other areas to
attend New Era. I believe it would be wiser to relocate the French Immersion program to a less
sensitive area. With this in mind I see the solution as being simple. It is far more important that the
next generation of Canadians be tolerant, accept diversity and put behind them the prejudice of their
own generation.
Whatever choice the Board makes in regard to New Era school, it must be one of inclusion, not
exclusion. Do not interfere with the neighbourhood school that offers the many supports both
school based and community supports available to the catchment area for both parents and students.
Your decision must be based on respect for all people. I thank you very much for listening.
Glen Kruk
Thank you for holding these public hearings on this very important issue my name is Glen Kruk. I am
the Regional Manager of the Canadian Mental Health Association, Westman Region. Through the
Canadian Mental Health Association I was serving , I’ve served for ten years on the city of Brandon
Poverty Committee. I was serving on the Poverty Committee when the issue of removing the nonFrench speaking students from New Era school was placed on the agenda. Although the Poverty
Committee could not formally voice their concerns as a committee because they are a committee of
city council, I wish to inform the Brandon School Division that hundred percent of the
representatives at that Poverty Committee spoke out in support of having the New Era School
continue as a neighbourhood school. Why? Because we all felt that it be a big step in the wrong
direction to close New Era School to the neighbourhood children. When you take away a
neighbourhood school from the children of that neighbourhood, you are making the journey to
acquiring an education even longer and harder than it already is. As you are well aware, students
who do not get a high school education are limited frequently to a life of poverty.
Carmel Olson supports New Era School continuing as a neighbourhood school. Carmel is the Chief
Executive Officer of the Brandon Regional Health Authority. She spoke to you about a population
health approach several months ago. Because the closing of New Era as a neighbourhood school can
have an effect on health. I also wish to draw your attention to a population health approach.
A population health approach lists a number of key health determinants which have a significant
impact on health. One key determinant is education and literacy. Naturally the Brandon School
Division plays a major role in this area. By shutting down a neighbourhood school for
neighbourhood children you would be negatively affecting this key determinant of health. Instead of
walking a few blocks, many children, with their small legs, would have to walk an additional nine to
eleven blocks to school in the morning which means getting up earlier and more time needed to
reach school. It means some children may not be able to make it home for lunch, it means attendance
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during colder or icy days may drop off due to the greater distance travelled as a previous speaker had
mentioned. It means young children would need to cross either the busy provincial highway of
either First Street or Victoria Avenue, which raises safety concerns. All these are added burdens
especially on low income families who would be unable to drive their children to school.
A second health determinant is income and social status. If a child’s education is detrimentally
affected in the early years it may negatively impact their future success at higher grades. If they do
not succeed in school, it is almost a guarantee they will face a life of poverty. In 2004, the University
of Manitoba Faculty of Medicine proved that income levels and mental illness is correlated, and that’s
this manual right here. That is not to say that anyone in this room, regardless of income, can be
affected by a mental illness because it can strike anyone. But the prevalence of mental illness is
greater in lower income levels. Hence the shutting down of New Era as a neighbourhood school can
have a detrimental effect on these children’s overall health if they do not succeed in school which
they could also increase in the likelihood of developing a future illness.
The last determinant of health that I will address is physical environments such as housing. Good,
safe housing has a large impact on a person's health. In the area of New Era School there a sizable
number of good Manitoba Housing apartments. Many more good housing units are coming onto the
market. The Canadian Mental Health Association in partnership with Brandon Habitat for Humanity
and the Brandon Friendship Centre are building 58 housing units right on 6th Street. It was always
the intent for the future families who were going to be inhabiting these units to have their children
attend New Era School which is so close to them. If you close New Era as a neighbourhood school it
will make it much more difficult for those families.
In closing, I would like to say that we as a society hold neighbourhood schools as one of our strongest
values. That is why in any new development anywhere in the city a developer most pay for or set
aside the land for the development of the neighbourhood school. They must do that in any area of
the city. If the Brandon School Division shuts down New Era School as a neighbourhood school, you
would be going against a strong value of our society and from a population health approach, it will
most likely affect many of those displaced students and the impact of that school closure will be felt
by we as a society as well. Therefore on behalf of a hundred percent of the Board of Directors of the
Canadian Mental Health Association we request that you keep New Era School open as a
neighbourhood school. Thank you.
Kerri Lynn Gudz
My name is Kerri Lynn Gudz and I'm here is the parent of a child currently enrolled in French
Immersion Kindergarten at New Era as well as two preschoolers and as a concerned tax payer in
Brandon. Throughout the ongoing discussions I have listened and followed with keen interest. I took
the opportunity to speak at the March 23 School Board Meeting and feel compelled to do so again. I
want to reiterate some of what I have already stated but also want to raise a few more points.
The Brandon School Division strives to enable each student to achieve maximum intellectual,
emotional, social and physical growth. We accomplish this through the provision of programs and
services which facilitate the development of students as healthy, contributing members of society.
This is the School Division’s mission statement. With a vision to "be a factor of educational
excellence built on community partnerships, effective leadership, and exemplary practices”. The
goal statement directing programs and services is to "to enable our educational system to provide
the best possible learning outcome for each child. We will strive to see that no child falls through the
cracks. The system will respond to the growing diversity of ability, circumstance and learning styles
of our student population based on best practice research. The Board will support innovative
change that focuses on improving and increasing student achievement for all students". These are
objectives which you have agreed to govern by.
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Brandon School Division
As you have heard previously, numbers are a real concern for all of our students at New Era.
Because these are issues that need to be dealt with immediately. The reality is some New Era
students are going to be displaced. There's not enough room for enrolment of the students my
understanding, past next year. The current French Immersion kindergarten and grade one classes
exceed the entire English enrolment at New Era. This is reality. Take this time when change is
already necessary to make it a positive change and provide students with an opportunity to have an
improved French Immersion program. In all probability without the French Immersion Program to
have sustained the operation of the building over the past number of years, New Era would've been
closed long ago.
There is much substantiated information outlining the benefits of learning a second language.
Number one: adopting new perspectives. There is one common conceptual system in the brain that
manages language learning. When learning a second language this permits bilingual students to
understand each language and its sub systems separately, allowing them to recognize existing
concepts and form new ones in their own thought process. Number two: mental flexibility. Better
performance by bilinguals and monolinguals on tasks that require mental manipulation and
reorganization of visual patterns. They more freely answer open-ended questions and express
originality and verbal expression with an ability to provide a variety of answers to questions.
Number three: they have an increased sensitivity to others. They have a heightened awareness and
receptivity and language appreciation. There are many more benefits but these are some that appeal
to me as a parent. I believe that when we know better, we do better. Please do better for the
students of Brandon School Division and provide them with an opportunity to expand their French
Immersion education with a French Milieu Program.
I have mentioned at the School Board Meeting before that I am a student that was grandfathered
through my community school in Dauphin to allow for French Milieu Program to be established 30
years ago. I have three younger siblings who fall in the French Milieu Program there. I find it
interesting that this is done in the community a quarter of the size of Brandon over 30 years ago. A
community that has the fourth lowest average individual income out of 308 constituencies in Canada.
I have been told that for next year there's already 30 kids or so registered for French Immersion
there. There is also Ukrainian bilingual program there which has been around for over 25 years.
Immersion programs are available for all students. Contrary to many public perceptions and how
some of this discussion has played out in the media. I hear the concerns of the English students’
parents and I do empathize. I also commend you for advocating for your children the way that I am.
I truly wish that there were an easy answer that would work for all of us. Maybe a pot of gold, or a
ridiculously wealthy benefactor. You cannot please all of the people all of the time in making
decisions. This is a long term opportunity for all of Brandon’s children, current and future students.
Decisions need to be based on the educational needs of children. This is a chance to have "innovative
change that focuses on improving and increasing student achievement for all students”.
As an aside, I would like you consider how much weight you put into the questionnaires provided at
these public Consultations? I know at their first meeting in New Era which is the one that I attended
prior to this, that throughout these public meetings they have been available to all but they've also
been left unattended throughout the meetings free for the taking . I’m not saying that this is how it
has played out. I really truly hope not but please be wary. I think that people have become very
impassioned about this. Some have based their opinions on fact and reality and others have not. I
understand why you held these meetings as Consultations for information gathering and not for
public debate but maybe it would've been um, sorry, but I would rather see them facilitated maybe
with someone who can, with related knowledge to correct the false information that has sometimes
been presented as well as to keep others on task. The Education Committee made an educational
decision to establish a French Milieu Program in Brandon. Please keep sight of this. Thank you.
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Debbie Clisby
My name is Debbie Clisby and I’m here to speak on behalf of all the students of Brandon. I think we
all want fair, fairness to all our students whether its French, English or Life Skills. Right now when
everybody's registering for school and when you hit grade 9, 10, 11 and 12 you are given choices
between three schools. You pick number one, number two, number three. You don't necessarily
get into the school you wanna get into because it might be too full or there’s no space or whatever
reason you have to pick one, two, three. When it comes to courses you also have to choose each year,
choose more than what you want to take. You have your normal basic classes that you have to take
and then you have many options to choose from. There again please choose extra options because
you may not get into this class. How fair is that to the English students? Should we not be able to
take what we want? Every course whether its French, English, whatever it's offered I don't think is is
that it's very good to take whatever, learn something!
I am a firm believer in whatever you want to learn, whatever class you wanna take, it's not a waste of
time or money. What I'd like to see is fairness. Why can’t our English students take what they want?
The dream would be for all French students to have a Milieu School and have everybody speaking
French. But as Pat pointed out, where are you going to get all the secretaries, the cleaning staff, that
speak French too. This will be a big problem because you do need good staff to teach.
I also wanted to find out about the numbers at New Era in the past few years. I contacted the
Superintendents’ office and talk to the lady and she said, they did not have the numbers of enrolment.
If I wanted to go back quite a few years and just check what the enrolment has been at New Era and
she said she didn't have the numbers but I could phone New Era. Then she asked me what it was for
and I said for the French and she said well, just a minute. She goes, comes back on the phone, she
says I’m sorry you can't, I cannot give you these numbers, you need to make a formal letter to Greg so
I thought, oh, oh, I’m not going to be able to have this done in time. I went online to Manitoba
Education and got the numbers off of that. In 2006 there was only 441 students in New Era and it's
gone up and down. I’ve got the records here from 2000, 2008 and I would have liked to even gone
back even farther. How do you know that in two more years or three years or four years you’re
gonna have less? Maybe next year it's gonna be crowded, maybe two years down the road it's not.
Like I say, in 2006 there's only 441 students, 2,000 to 493 there is a classroom, two classrooms, so
how do you justify, how do you know?
We all know. In my own neighbourhood things are changing. People are retiring, there’s new
families moving in. All the schools, every school in Brandon, the enrolment goes up and down, up
and down. There’s quite a few statistics on the web site that will show there’s a decrease in Brandon
enrolment in some years, some years it’s up. So how do you know, so how do you justify, oh we’ll
send the poor English kids someplace else and then three years you've got five empty classrooms,
two empty classrooms. Just how full are you? It is a big concern created (??) that you're moving
students out. It is stressful – Brandon School Division did that to myself personally and I was
devastated when I had to switch school 'cause of overcrowding. I’ll never forget that, that first day in
grade eight, sitting in a different school. Thank goodness I had a fantastic teacher 'cause I don't know
how I would've made it through that year. Some kids it will not bother as much as other kids but
believe me it will bother some. Like I say that’s my one big memory of all my years going to school
was that first day, going all the way back from being, I started in that school, they built a new school,
a block and a half away, grade eight, they sent me back, blocks away, it was devastating and that will
happen to some of these students too and I know that personally and I'll never forget that. Also you
see BU and ACC are promoting trade programs, our health programs, beefing up their programs.
They’re not beefing up French. They’re trying, our Province wants students trained in trades and
that, maybe we could spend some money in some extra programs in the trade division.
Things are working at New Era, let's wait and see what the enrolment is in the next few years. I’ve
got records here and I’d like to go back even further if I’d had time to go back and find I would have
liked to seen. My husband went there, graduated from there when it was a high school. Course I
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don’t think he’d remembered as a grade 12 student how many attended school at that time. That’d
be not on his wishing list, it was down at the bar. Also I would like to know, just what the cost of all
this is to the taxpayers to put on all this when I think things are working fine and a lot of people are
upset. But, like I say, I think you need to look back over some of the history of the numbers and I
hope you're listening that there is English students out there that would like to take some courses or
go to the school of their choice too and not be penalized. And the Life Skills too, like there's more
than just the French students, there’s a small number, there’s the Life Skills, there’s a lot of English
students that would like to take courses that they can’t get into ‘cause it’s too full Thank you for your
time.
Pam Pople
Hi, my name’s Pam Pople. I like to laugh so I’ll be up here talking and hopefully there’ll be a smile on
some people’s faces instead of us looking so solemn about what we’re talking about. I think a little bit
of positivity might go a long way. We have to look back at the French Immersion Program and look at
where it started and where it is today. How absolutely wonderful that we are standing here and
debating where are we going to put all these students because there’s too many of them. Isn’t that
awful? We have to I think, and I’m not like, the decision to have to move students to another school,
French or English or whatever make anybody have to move. What a horrible thing! But it's gonna
have to be done isn’t it? New Era has no science labs because they’re classrooms, they have no art
rooms because they’re classrooms, they, I think, are down to one music room, their gym is
overpopulated. There is not enough time in the day to have every classroom have a gym time slot.
It's full, it’s packed. That is the honest truth, we are not making it up. So they, these elected people in
front of us have to make a decision and it's gonna be damn hard.
My daughter went to New Era from kindergarten to grade eight last year. She is a tolerant,
wonderful fourteen year old. Her opinion of this is what do you think you're doing, Mom, trying to
toss those English kids out of my school. That's what she thinks! That's what she thinks. And she’s
fully French Immersion! She had to write an editorial I imagine that the English teacher kind of got
the gist about what's going on in the community, an editorial for her English class and she chose this
topic. And of course I read it and she had a sentence in that editorial that I hadn't even thought of
that will put me to shame I guess but makes me really proud of her. Every student French or English,
deserves the opportunity to have the experiences of using an uncrowded gym, science labs, art
rooms, and a music room and that’s because in grade eight they used and performed one science
experiment in the classroom, that was it. This year she's taking science at Neelin, I guess they're
doing more and she realizes that had they had more space, as any student, the English students
aren’t getting it either.
So, compassionate for the children that have to walk, I think there's 90 English students walking,
there’s 135 French students walking. There's 40, or going to be over 40 students, English students,
bused to New Era. I don’t know how many French we’re bussing right now. There are English
students that are in the catchment of Betty Gibson and King George that come to New Era. So there
are a whole lot of challenges to be met by the Trustees sitting in front of us and the decision that they
make are going to hurt somebody but I think when it’s done we are all going to have to become
satisfied with what they've done and think positively of it because of the fact that we have grown
such an incredible strength field (??) French Immersion Program. It's something to be proud of in
Brandon. It's on the city website that it's here. People who are moving to Brandon look at that and
you know, decide whether they want to moved here or not. All of our schools deserve and all of our
children deserve the science labs and the art rooms and the music rooms. And I hope that we don't
let this rip us apart, it shouldn't. Our goal should be for the kids and you guys really, really, really,
have a big decision to make. Thank you.
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Kevin Klassen
My name is Kevin Klassen and I’m here speaking on behalf of the English Program at New Era. I’d
also like to thank the Board for your patience in listening what must be many hours now of very
diverse opinions.
Before I begin I just want to set one thing to rest and that’s defending the Division’s English program
doesn’t have anything to do with any prejudices against the French language or program, we’ve
unfortunately heard that occasionally. And French is very important to me and my family. My wife’s
parents were both born and raised in Quebec. They went on to be school teachers there before they
moved out here to Manitoba to start a family. Of course we’re going to unfortunately find there’s
people on the fringes who are going to say something like we don’t need a French school. But, I
would urge people not to listen to people who would say that’s the source of the opposition against
the milieu proposal. I’m afraid we can find people on the fringes who are going to say even things as
bad as Aboriginal students are bad influences or immigrant families shouldn’t be catered with the
EAL program. But those kinds of prejudiced comments are self refuting and they warrant no further
consideration or discussion.
My question for the Board, that I would like to see answered, is if the Board is considering the issue
of space at New Era apart from the issue of a milieu school. As I said before, I have been frequently
told that space and location were not a part of the original consideration to establish a milieu school.
I think it is also clear that the biggest problem facing New Era is space, and not the lack of a new
environment. If the Board is not already considering the issue of space at New Era separately, I must
urge it to also do that. We cannot expect the milieu options to address the issue of lack of space at
New Era. A milieu program provides absolutely no new options or solutions to the problems of space
at New Era. What's worse, it makes a great many of the solutions more expensive. Solutions for the
space issue must be considered on their own and not just as part of a milieu package. I’ve heard
several presenters speak in favour before of going forward with Option 3. This has been defended on
the basis of the desperate need for space and the fact that the French Immersion Program is still
growing. Thus, New Era is the only place that can hold those students right now. The Board, though,
has stated that the consideration of a milieu school is part of long term planning. If the Immersion
Program is still growing, it will soon no longer have room at New Era either. With over 400 students
already enrolled, the Program can only grow by 25% before even New Era is not going to fit those
students.
I would urge the Board to consider future growth and seriously consider that splitting the French
Immersion Program may well become inevitable. I fear that some will already see this and are using
the milieu issue to try and delay that. If the Board doesn’t consider the possibility of splitting the
Immersion Program, it may discover in five years time, that New Era’s English Program was
sacrificed for nothing. There is one last idea that has been presented that I must speak on too. That
is the notion that a forward-looking Board must choose one of the six options and go forwards. The
idea suggests those asking for different options are just holding things back or have an aversion to
change. Since I’ve been involved in the English Program at New Era, I’ve heard a lot about people’s
vision for it’s future.
Imagine for a moment if we could put together a school designed specifically to meet the needs of
those in our core area and the students there with the greatest needs. It could have an in-school
subsidized day care, it could have a no-cost breakfast program for the kids that need it, and ideally
would be within walking distance of the soup kitchen as well. It could have a program for
distributing winter clothing that was donated to kids that need it and in school laundry facilities to
both help out families and encourage them to interact with school staff. The school could have
special programs partnering with the community to present Aboriginal languages and culture, maybe
even holding Pow Wows in the evenings after school in the gym. It also have small enough numbers
in each grade that students would recognize and know, not just their teacher, but the teachers they
would have in years to come, giving them confidence and continuity, which these students
desperately need. Now image if the Division could have this fully implemented for next September
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with no costs. This is easy to imagine because I know that it is the English Program at New Era right
now, today. I urge the Board to consider that Option 3 will move New Era students to schools that do
not meet all these needs nor do its cost estimates provide any additional funds for moving any of
those programs. They will simply be lost. I think some people have the idea that moving these
students from New Era to three other schools that will have all the same needs met. New Era has
been built for a long time and specially meets needs that those other schools cannot meet. That
needs to be understood that there are programs that those kids need that will be lost if they are
moved. I do not see Option 3 as the Division moving forwards. I see it as losing more than it gains.
It is important that none of this to detract from the Immersion Program.
When I was looking where to send my kids to the school the consistent message I heard was that the
French Immersion Program was the best in the Division. I’d been told how excellent the staff were.
With my son Mal (??) in New Era, Albi (??) in the English Program, I have seen just how excellent the
staff are in both programs. The French Immersion and English teachers at New Era deserve huge
appreciation from everyone for doing the remarkable jobs that they do. More still, the involvement
of New Era’s Parent Council and the volunteers that they manage to bring out combine and make one
of the best programs in the city. I would urge the Board to work on solving the space issues that the
programs are facing. I’ve heard many presentations discussing how much negative impacts space is
having on staff and students and about how much more needs to be done to improve the quality of
the French Immersion Program and language. You’ve heard appeals based on the current
overcrowded dual track program at New Era saying it’s not good enough and the Division must move
forward with Option 3. I would make the more modest statement that closing New Era’s English
Program is not good enough and the Division must not consider Option 3. Thank you.
Deb Asham
Hi, my name is Debra Asham. I’m the Child Care Director for the Brandon YMCA and one of the
projects I oversee is the YMCA/New Era Early Learning Centre that is located right inside New Era
School. And to give you a brief history because this project was a long time in the making and I think
it was before a few of the Trustees’ times. In December of 2005, Susan Park was the Community
School Coordinator, she was working out of New Era School at the time, and she made the initial
application to Family Services and Housing to open an early learning nursery program in the New
Era school to complement the present kindergarten program. In February of 2006 a child care needs
survey was sent home with all children attending New Era School, English and French, with an
overwhelming positive response. In April 2006 there were parent-led discussions were held at the
school and the general consensus was that it was beneficial for the preschoolers to come to that
program, that it to be located in the school beside the kindergarten room. It would be mostly four
year olds and five year olds and that they would have access to all the amenities. In September of
2006 the operating license for this nursery school was transferred over to the YMCA where I took
over that. That same month we received a written letter of support dated September 28, 2006
welcoming us to the school from Dr. Donna Michaels. And throughout the remainder of 2006 and
2007 the YMCA spent $9,000.00 renovating a classroom on the second floor as well as over $5,000.00
in equipment and we opened our doors in September of 2007. Since then we have operated a
successful enhanced nursery school program with 60 percent of our students being catchment area
kindergarten children and the remaining 40 percent being bussed French Immersion students so we
do service both the French and English children in the school. We operate this nursery school with
the understanding that strong partnerships between schools and early learning and child care
centers are important in promoting early childhood development as per the Manitoba Education
Citizenship and Youth and Family Services and Housing’s early learning and child care in schools
policy. So my question to the Board is no matter what your decision is, ‘cause it is a tough decision
and I'm glad I am on this side of the table, we just want to remember for you guys to keep some space
for the YMCA's Early Learning Program. I know the school is crowded and I know that you guys
would like that room back but we really like that room and we really like where we are. And as well
no matter what your decision is, if you could remember to keep room for the YMCA's Before and
After School Program which also operates out of New Era School. It has historically been the most
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well attended before and after school program in the Brandon School Division. We have over 40
children attend the morning and the afternoon sessions. That's my question, please don't kick us
out.
Andrea Plante
My name is Andrea Plante. Good evening everyone. How are you guys doing tonight? I don’t know
about you guys, but I'm tired, I've three kids in soccer and it starts next week or the week after that
depending on the flooding so I mean I’d be tired anyway but to be honest this whole consultation
process has just exhausted me. I’ve spent a lot of time explaining to people that yes, they could in fact
attend their children's parent teacher interviews in a milieu school because they would be conducted
in English if they so wished. I can't count the number of times I found myself telling and reminding
people that Option #3 will actually cost the taxpayers the least amount of money. Never mind the
time spent debating the fact that maintaining the status quo isn’t really even an option due to the
limited space and empty seats elsewhere in surrounding schools. Not to mention the fact that this
would bring a much higher cost to taxpayers to do this. It's discouraging to hear that people who
think that milieu is a great idea and definitely the way the program should go have lost confidence in
saying so publicly because other people are using the word like segregation. When you hear that
word you automatically think of Rosa Parks or Martin Luther King. There are many definitions of
segregation and in this case, creating a French Milieu School in Brandon is no different than having
the Life Skills Program at Neelin or the vocational programs at Crocus. We are offering specialized
program at one location. That does not fit my definition of segregation. But what is most exhausting
is defending myself and other parents like me who have been called elitists and separatists, imagine.
All we have done is chosen French Immersion for our families and only want the best delivery
program so that our children receive the best education possible. We're asking for no more than any
other parents in this Division or in any other division. We are simply asking that the program which
we have chosen for our families is improved and raised to the level which will give our children the
opportunity to receive the best education. I have decided that what's happening here is somewhat
like one of those reality shows so prevalent on TV networks these days. Like most of the series, the
TV shows, there are challenges, or there’ll be the drama and ultimately, a tough decision that is
made after presentations and deliberations of some kind. We could call it Survivor B. S. D. or the
Trustee like Donald Trump's, The Apprentice. Okay team, here's your challenge. You are running a
highly successful program and participation in the program is growing. You have done your
research and found that there is a better way to deliver the program. Supporters of the program
agree with your research and want the new delivery method instituted. A suitable facility must be
found as the current facility which houses this program and another program is overcapacity.
However you are receiving opposition to moving one of the programs to another location by
advocates of the smaller program. Change must happen and you have to decide how to successfully
deliver both programs. Oh, and there's a catch. You have little or no budget to do this. I’m not sure
the idea’s ready to pitch to NBC yet but I’ll keep you posted. Much can be learned from this. So many
people have been saying that giving something to one program ultimately results in taking something
away from another. I don’t see that way. Challenge and opportunity often go hand in hand. What
we have here is an opportunity to develop two programs. I won’t even bother with reiterating the
obvious proven benefits to milieu as you have heard them over and over again from this Consultation
and from your own committees’ research and work. However, what about the opportunities for the
English program if New Era is chosen location for the milieus school. Here's a thought. Maybe part
of the success of the French Immersion Program is the low transient scene mobility rate. This rate is
obviously helped by the fact that the education they receive is offered in the same location no matter
where the student lives within the Division. Why not apply this same principle to the programs in
the Division where high mobility rates negatively affect the quality of education which a student
receives. What if families experiencing high mobility could be identified and their children could be
bussed to the same school for their entire early and middle years’ education. This would help the
staff with educational plans for their school and individual students knowing that these students
would be there longer and their enrolment would be more consistent. This would help the students
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because it would mean that no matter what other changes are happening in their life, their school
would remain the same, no matter where they lived within the city. Long term relationships could
be better established with teachers and classmates which would ultimately result in creating a stable,
safe and trusting environment for these students to grow. All of the wonderful programs currently
offered to English students at New Era could be delivered at these locations and would run more
efficiently because participation would be consistent. I don’t know why people are so convinced that
things like the breakfast program couldn’t continue. Transportation, either by foot or by bus would
not cause undue hardship for these kids. They would not be forced to travel any further than any
other child currently does in the Division. This does not have to be a negative experience for anyone.
Sure, there will be an adjustment period. There always is with change. But people, especially kids,
can adapt and with the right guidance and support from adults involved, everyone can come out a
winner. It really boils down to this, you’ve done the research, you have the facts. These things must
be considered. Increasing the quality of an educational program must be a priority. The cost to the
taxpayers needs to be considered. The practicality of students and seats within the Division. There
are programs already in place at other locations to meet the needs of incoming students as well as
provide benefits which will provide stability in the long run. There are many supports already in
place and more can be added to help with any transition. As much as I referred to it earlier, this isn’t
a TV show, this is reality and the reality is that this is an opportunity to strengthen not one, but two
programs. I urge you to capture this opportunity and make a decision that will be beneficial to all
students. Thank you.
Diane Grainger
Hello everybody. I'm Diane Grainger and I'm a product of French milieu before it had a name
actually, in French Immersion. I was living in a very small town where there was no school after
grade eight and when it came time for me to go to grade nine, it was decided that I would go to a
town that was about sixteen miles away and I boarded with French people. I went to a French
school, I was taught by French, the nuns and the catholic school taught and the first part of the lesson
was in English and the rest of that was in French. Most of the students in the school were French
speaking mother tongue. And so for three years I had a crash course in French Immersion. I
wouldn't trade that time in my life for anything in the world. It was both broadening emotionally
and mentally and the result of it was is that when I when I left there in grade eleven, the larger
school divisions came in and I was able to stay at home and I was bused to another school in grade
twelve, but when I left there I thought in French, I was so bilingual. However, I have to say that while
there's been quite a few years since that has happened, living in an English community again, I have
unfortunately lost most of my French. I can read it, I probably wouldn’t attempt speaking it too
much, but, so while I commend and I support French Immersion, I was very upset when my own
children could not attend French Immersion classes because I felt it was very important. But I feel
compelled to speak on this subject because of the fact that, you have to look at the long term of what
you're doing. I think that having the experience of learning another language, whatever it might be, I
think that we in Manitoba and in Canada are probably negligent in not learning more languages and
so I'm certainly not against a French Immersion program. However, I feel also very strongly about
moving a community, moving the children that are at need around New Era, and having them go to
other schools. I believe that the community and there's been many very eloquent speakers about the
programs at New Era and how they benefit the community and the people, the students that attend
that school. And I think that if they were having to go to another school and they were split up and
being bussed I think this would really cause hardship and I think it really would be a difficult thing
for them to maintain their attendance and their focus at the school level. I think it's very important
that that remain a community school. And so I won't repeat all of the good things that people have
said about New Era School. I think it's really important that these things are said but I just wanted to
go on record that this is an important thing I believe very strongly in. But I also believe very strongly
in the French Immersion Program and I understand if you need more space but I don't think it should
be more space for the French Immersion Program at the expense of the New Era community
programs. And, I guess with that I just wanted to establish that I wasn’t against French Immersion at
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all, as I say, I was a part of it before it had a name. Anyway, thank you very much for your time and
attention and good luck in your deliberations.
Marla Sommersall
My name is Marla Sommersall. I've had an opportunity to speak to the Board to before but there was
a couple other questions that I would like to ask. One thing in particular that's important for me is
the consideration of the milieu program is not something that I have heard the English parents in the
school state that they are against. What they're against is not having the opportunity to have their
programming as well. I think that's a very important thing that I would like to make clear. The two
questions that I have, one is in relation to staffing, and I know that question has come up this evening.
But a specific question in terms of how does the Division plan to staff the milieu school and the
French Immersion Program in general whether it's the high school or the elementary level. In grade
four my daughter’s classmates counted sixteen different substitutes when their teacher took ill. Not
all of them even spoke French. This year her teacher took a maternity leave and before the spring
break we received a letter from the principal of the school stating they were hoping that they would
find someone to replace for. So my question is what is the plan for staffing? The larger part of that
same question for me is if there is no cap on French Immersion, and I don't believe that there should
be, because it is our country second language, it's important that children have the opportunity to
learn it if they choose to do that. But if we're going to have four classes each year coming into that
school, how do we plan to staff the growing French Immersion Program and secondly, what is the
space issue going to be five years down the road? Will there be a requirement for a second school?
Will there be a requirement for additional programming? Will the school (New Era) or another
school have the capacity for that programming or are we going to be looking at this question again
down the road. So rather than planning for what's the space issue right now and let’s tie the milieu to
that, let's look at the space issue now and then let's take a very careful look at what is the long term
planning for the French Milieu Program or the French Immersion Program or dual track program and
take the time to really study that and make sure that we're doing the right thing for those kids.
What's important to me in that process is that the English children have the opportunity to maintain
their programming, have the opportunity to maintain the relationships that they have built in the
school with an incredible staff and in a very rich environment. Those things can be lost in order to
create another program so there has to be a balance between those two things. Thank you.
Denis Mulaire
My name is Denis Mulaire. I want to thank you first of all for the opportunity for allowing parents to
voice their opinion on this motion. I am a teacher that has taught in two different French schools, an
immersion school and presently I teach Basic French in an English school. I am Metis and I am also
first language French. I am the father of seven children, two graduated from Crocus, one graduated
from Christian Heritage, one graduated from the French Immersion Program at Neelin, one will
graduate this year from the Immersion Program at Neelin. Two were at New Era until last year when
my wife and I decided to enroll them into a collegsau (SP.??) at Shilo. It was not an easy decision, we
lived two blocks from New Era in the substandard lower core area I guess, that’s what people refer to
it as. The children came home anyways for lunch. The option of sending them to collegsau (??)
including putting them on a bus for one hour a day for the rest of the school year as well as not seeing
them for several hours during that day. It has always been important to us that our children learn at
least a second language. Not only because it's my first language but also to give our children as many
opportunities as possible including better opportunities for employment as well as opening wider
doors when traveling. The main reason we moved them was their lack of functionality in the French
language. But the language being only spoken in the class setting, the students are only exposed to
that subject’s content language and specific units. However, in the hallways and during break time,
the students speak about their weekends, movies they’ve seen, friends they’ve met, in short, their
lives. They are talking about their lives. That’s when the language is being internalized and
fossilized. They are talking about what really interests them. This is when language acquisition is
really taking place. They are becoming peer tutors and mentors. It’s at this point they are becoming
both teachers and students of the language. In short if New Era would have been a milieu school, our
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children would still be there very likely because that's what the milieu offers. A few months ago I
was in conversation with some of my students. I mentioned to them how pleased I was to listen to
the Olympics in China and how the winners were announced in English, French and of course,
Chinese, the language of the host country. I asked them why French was used. There were different
answers, including because Canada is bilingual and because of Quebec and etc., etc. I asked them
seriously, if the Chinese, a country of 1.3 billion people, really cared about Canada being the official
languages of two. I informed them that French actually is an official language of the International
Olympic Committee. French is also an official language in the United Nations and other international
entities. We are educating global citizens. Students need at least two languages today more than
ever. I believe Eddie, our sound man yesterday alluded to that. He’s part of that generation right
now that’s looking at things and if anyone is in the loop, it’s a guy like that who has just finished
school and sees what is and wishes for what could have been. In my classroom I’ve had a German
student who spoke at least three languages, which is not uncommon for that country. I’ve had a
Brazilian student who spoke at least three languages and he was in the process of learning the fourth.
I have friends from Egypt, French is taught in their school because it is spoken there along with
Aramaic and English. French is spoken in Vietnam and many other African countries. We have
parents and children who have vested interest making sure their children benefit from as many
educational trump cards as possible. One is a second language. Anyone can learn a second language.
No one is genetically predisposed to learn one language over another. Our environment, our
upbringing, our ages, our time, our biases will all help in dictating what and how many languages we
can and will learn. All things being equal, any parent wants to make sure their children get the best
education possible. In essence, this would prepare them that much more to meet a very competitive
job market that is now a global job market. I have attended each presentation and I guess I would
like to address some points that have been raised by a number of individuals, although they have
already been addressed somehow tonight some way or another. Anyways, I would like to say that I
do not envy your position Board of Trustees. I want to honor you in what you’re doing. I heard a
few people threatening theirof lack of support if you opted to move English from New Era and all
that. That’s disappointing because it should never be an issue like that. You have many criterions to
consider, least of which is the budget, overcrowding of New Era, let alone the deep feelings of so
many parents, children, staff of different schools as well as programs within those schools. We live in
a democratic society, however many times it is impossible to satisfy all the people involved. Our
governments pass law, make policy adjustments and follow up on decisions where all people are
affected in different ways as such is going to be the case with this situation. The thing is, though, as
that as mentioned at more than one occasion, we have a dual track school that has too many students
in it. There were comments about street crossing if K – 6 were transferred to another school. The
point is that J.R. Reid is on the corner of 26th and Park with boundaries extending from 18th to 34th.
Oxford is on the corner of Vic and 18th. Betty Gibson catchment extends from Pacific to Richmond
with boundaries of 10th and 18th, George Fitton catchment area includes railway tracks to Patricia
Avenue of all places, from 1st to 10th street. The School Division is not required to transport any
students. Right now there are 135 students in the core area and 135 that walk French Immersion
and there are 90 that walk at the English track school. Another concern raised was a lack of support
the parents can give because their children are learning to operate in a different language. A school
should have programs in place for the students who need that help. As a teacher, as an educator
myself we make every effort possible at any given situation to help not only the parents but also the
students, for that matter I’m in Parent Teacher Interviews right now, I should be there. Mr. Carkener
alluded to last night about something to that effect. The issue of hot lunches was also mentioned. I
believe there was something about 200 meals per month was the number. New Era has a lunch
program, why do the students have to go downtown when it’s busy with traffic? I do not know of
many schools in this day and age, actually they do not have a lunch program or at least a breakfast
program. For that matter, many programs are offered and they are being probably processed in
every school right now to help these students. At the Neelin presentation, it was conveyed right
there about socio-economic background or immigrant status in that whole area. I don’t want to raise
that question too, too much actually but I know so many immigrants right there. Chinese, I mean
there, I was talking to a Chinese interpreter from Maple Leaf and he was saying right there that the
most frugal Chinese puts aside $10,000 in six months. I can go on and on about how immigrants can
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actually show us how to manage money. I don’t want to go there because it’s -- anyways, I don’t want
to go there. I just had written a bunch of stuff down and I don’t want to go there. It is important to
keep the French Immersion Program going.
Mr. Forsyth, who did a New Era presentation,
mentioned statistics from Carlton University about the learning abilities of French Immersion
students. These studies show that students with at least two languages from a milieu setting far
exceeded their counterparts in both French and English. I strongly believe that a city the size of
Brandon needs a French Milieu School. I do not think the status quo is good enough. I believe the
parents and one of the figures that was tossed out is that ninety percent of the parents of French
Immersion students are English, that’s your friends, your neighbours, relatives -- they're English
parents, I mean they are not French students they are English students taking a French Immersion.
So, anyways, so that’s the (??) report in short order. My only concern is with the Board of Trustees,
what is your commitment to the French Immersion program in this city, not only for today, not only
for this year and that’s been alluded to already, but also for the next few years. Thank you.
Heather Duncan
Thank you. Good evening Dr. Michaels, School Trustees and fellow audience members. My name
Heather Duncan and I have three children who currently attend French Immersion in grades five and
seven at Ecole New Era School. I've been following this issue with interest since the fall and I thank
you for the opportunity to share my thoughts. The first is that we have seen in unprecedented
increase,( sorry), as I see it that there are few issues emerging simultaneously at our school. The first
is that we have seen an unprecedented increase in kindergarten enrolment in French Immersion
Program for the past three years. This is a very positive trend indicating that more and more
parents are recognizing the multitude of benefits that come with acquiring a second language. In the
past I have been puzzled as to why more parents would not choose to offer their children the chance
to learn an additional language while still learning the very same things students in an English track
school are learning. After listening to many of the presentations at the public consultations last
week I feel I have part of my answer. So much of what has been said against not just the milieu
concept, but French Immersion in general, leads me to the conclusion that myths and
misunderstandings about the program abound in the general public. Somehow we in the French
Immersion Program need to do a better job of clarifying those misconceptions. So we have an
increase in French
Immersion enrolment at the same time that we are seeing some real successes with the community
school concept at our school, where the school is seen as the neighbourhood hub for running all
kinds of programs to enhance the lives of people in the New Era catchment area. It's great to see the
school humming with activity after school hours. Encouraging parents who may been reluctant
before this community school project started, to enter through those school doors to participate in
positive life changes. Thirdly, there is a will by some to make improvements to the French
Immersion program by offering a French Milieu. This concept offers more opportunities for students
to have French conversations during the school day. As linguistic experts tell us early childhood is
the best time for language acquisition. Between birth and adolescence the brain is hardwired to
acquire language naturally. As a child approaches puberty the nature of language learning and
storage changes, become less flexible. According to the 2002 document entitled French Immersion
in Manitoba, time, practice and exposure have direct correlation to learning a language.
Unfortunately it is the introduction of this milieu concept that has people throwing around terms
such as separatist, racist, elitist, segregationist in a very hurtful, damaging and unproductive manner.
The fact that enrollment in French Immersion in the early years has jumped significantly has created
an overcrowding issue. This has been the one fact that almost everyone who has shared their views
with you has acknowledged. The overcrowding of our school jeopardizes everyone's quality of
education and it does need to be addressed as soon as possible. The fact that the community schools
concept is beginning to make positive change in the lives of families is something to celebrate and I
think to build upon. Community development research tells us that this concept works and I would
encourage the School Board to make the community school model available to even more families, by
moving it to other core area schools as well. If as is one option, students from New Era, English
students, must be moved to other schools in the vicinity, I trust that the good programs like to BSAP
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program, the FAST program and the Community School Project would be moved with them, would
be strengthened even. For example, perhaps a transport van or bus could be used within the
community schools program to make it possible for families without their own transport to attend
extracurricular events at school. Brandon Friendship Center and Elspeth Reid Family Resource
Center use passenger vans to pick up families who need a ride to participate in the programs with
great success. We heard other speakers say that students from New Era were eating lunch at Helping
Hands on a regular basis. I would venture to say that hunger and food security issues are not only
experienced by New Era students but by students at many other schools in the city. To me, this
speaks to a need to provide a lunch program at school for the students who have the need. This was
tried on a trial basis very successfully at our school in the past. Surely there must be a way to build
partnerships to find the resources, both human and financial to address this issue. Also if there are
other facilities such as the Convergys Building in the New Era catchment area that would work as a
school, I would definitely support looking at that as a viable option. Do I support the French Milieu
concept, at the peril of being labelled with terms that I don't believe describe me, yes I do. My
children work hard and do well at school and yet the consistent comment on their report cards is
that they must endeavour to speak more French. The French Milieu concept would enable them to
naturally have more French conversations, more opportunities to use their second language outside
of the classroom, but inside of the school. Again, the document entitled French Immersion in
Manitoba 2002 states: The achievement of a second language proficiency is directly related to the
amount and intensity of time the students spend learning and using the language. Will a French
Milieu mean that they will lose their exposure to multiculturalism, that they will somehow not
celebrate the diversity of the human family? No, it does not. They will learn about other cultures,
other parts of the world, they will celebrate diversity just like the English track schools do, except
that they will be acquiring the knowledge and experiences in a language other than English. This
research tells us, will make it easier for them to acquire a third or even a fourth language, to
communicate and welcome newcomers from other countries that we see moving to our city in
increasing numbers. I do not feel that French Immersion Milieu Program has to be housed at New
Era. However, given the number of students we have, I'm not sure that we really have other viable
affordable options at this time. Does the fact that I think a French Milieu is a good idea for the
French Immersion Program in our Division mean that I’m somehow an enemy or an opponent of
those students in our school who attend the English track? Emphatically no. It does not. I care very
much what happens and I trust that the School Board will make every effort to see that their learning
environment consists of the best quality programming given the resources available. In closing, I
would like to extend a sincere thank you to the School Trustees for striving for quality education for
all of our students. You have asked for public input, but ultimately you are left to make the difficult
decisions. Making a change, understandably, causes motions to erupt. I would ask that as you make
those decisions, you let evidence based research and facts be your guide. Thank you.
Cheryl Brown
Good evening. My name is Cheryl Brown. I’m a former E.A. with the Brandon School Division and a
parent of two children at New Era school in grade four and seven in French Immersion as well as one
adolescent at Neelin, French Immersion, grade eleven. I believe that it is important to consider how
such a program will affect the other levels of French language instruction and must be based on
research and success of already existing programs. Continuous quality improvement at every level
of instruction within the Brand School Division, both English and French tracks, is essential to help
our kids prepare for their futures. In the absence of total immersion, for example, living in Quebec,
many parents and students have chosen to enrol in the French Immersion Program. Consideration
of a milieu program must be viewed not in isolation for the early or middle years programs only, but
must include consideration of the high school French Immersion Program at Neelin. This includes
the availability of qualified French language teachers and staff to provide the necessary support,
continuity in learning and opportunities for growth for our students. In speaking with students and
other parents, the gaps in the current French language program at the high school level must also be
addressed in order to provide a solid steppingstone for the middle years students to move onto.
Thank you.
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Delvina Kejick
Hi, my name is Delvina Kejick and I work at New Era School. I’ve been there ongoing eighteen years,
delivering different projects. I was their Community Liaison, doing home visits, over 200 home visits
on a yearly basis up until a year and a half ago. And I guess I’m going to come and I just want to
share, I have things written, but I’m more of a heart person and I’m going to share some of these
things because I also, my mind is kinds of going right now and also it’s the directions. Some of the
things I’m going to say right now are fairly bold because they come out of what I believe. In
participating in the School Board Meetings, in participating and looking at the different mandates
across the city. Also in trying to get other people involved, some of the politicians, some of our city
officials and asking specific questions amongst them. And I guess, I’ve got a list of everything that
has happened or been publicized over this year. The French Milieu question I believe, and this is
myself, maybe it's no longer question. Sadly I believe that it possibly, possibly has been decided.
Otherwise I really question why on the feedback sheets there is the option of no French Milieu. And I
realize that there is an option of others. But I also believe that the people out there, not everybody,
reads well, not everybody understands the terminology of things that are written. And to me if these
public consultations had happened, had really been thought about, how they needed to do and how
they needed to address everybody, they probably wouldn’t be happening at this time. Everything, I
guess, why was that question not there? Our French Immersion Program definitely is expanding. I
guess I believe if there was huge issues arising on a regular basis about the poor delivery of this
program or about the inadequacy, would it be growing as it is? Everything around us can be better,
it can be improved but again referring to the program that delivers the highest IEP’s within the
Division versus the one that doesn't. Is this question even fair? This to me, this whole process and
this whole school year has been an eye opening experience for me and I believe for everybody else.
The reality of this issue is huge and it is rippling in its effect. I believe way beyond what anyone can
really speak about right now. Regardless of that, it still pours(?) for us. Dr. Michaels, you yourself
advised at a Board Meeting that it would be better that this become two areas, one a French Milieu
and one a space. And the responses that I got from some of our Trustees was that that was a wise
move on your part. Another comment that came was that we have to be careful in this all. It has
potential to become a political issue that we cannot handle. And I know that all our School Board
Meetings are publicized and they are recorded for people to have access to so that people can look at
them and that's a good thing. This was because prior to that even though the space was mentioned it
was not the original question presentation bought through. I have come across countless
conversations where people have said why don’t they see that it is a space issue. That comment
concerns me a lot because maybe space is being used to negate or make other things such as
removing people from the core area school or other concerns to win this argument and to silence our
opinions but yet you have your public Consultations here that are part of that. Do these statements
mean because space is an issue that we have to sit back and not give our opinions, not be emotional
about the affects of it and not reveal how it truly is going to affect the daily lives of our core area
families. The largest effect is hugely negative for our core area families that attend New Era school,
and I don’t care what reason anybody gives me. It is negative. It will make things harder for them
and none of us can attest right now and say what those things will be. That those things, will be a
reality whether people believe it or not, not voting in favour of cultural diversity and in a dual track
school in fact will negatively affect all students. And I also mean our immersion program also. The
first night of these consultations and second were huge in attendance of actual parents and staff
because this issue affects those two scools and their families more than anyone else in this Division.
I am not surprised about the amount of parents or staff at Betty Gibson and that their numbers were
low and that the numbers still were higher in the New Era staff and parents and also French
Immersion ones. It's not their fault. I believe that it is the fault of the School Division. Last night we
had our Pow Wow, our weekly Pow Wow . We cut our Pow Wow night short because we understood
that the doors were open, up until 9:30 for us to put our public opinions forth and when we arrived,
when I arrived, they were already closed down. And I question why for such an important decision,
not everybody can be here at 7:00, because we have a busy life; we have other programs and things
to deliver. There were 40 people last night and they all agreed to come, and at my own home, I had
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nine phone calls afterwards questioning, okay, we got over there eventually, we didn’t exactly know
where it was. Some people carpooled and they weren’t able to share their opinion at the night when
they wanted to. Other factors that do play into the reasons that people do and not do or do not attend
these consultations or giving their feedback concerning it. I believe that many of our parents and
our families from our New Era School do not attend for various reasons, some of the it being because
they don't understand everything that's happened, there’s a language barrier, some of it being
because they carry shame and they have never been heard about important things in my life before.
And there's an economic part, many of our families that don't have cars and it affects them. And
there’s another belief out there that they have, this decision probably has been made. In the last two
weeks I've had three parents come to me and ask me to help them because they need to find housing
somewhere else because they believe that this is already been decided. And I guess one of the things
I want a say in regards to our BSAP (?) project and our community schools and the value of it is that
that is to, encourage parent involvement in the education lives of their children. One of the things
that we have the saying around is – walk a mile in my shoes. And that’s not about having the same
life experiences, I have walked a mile in the majority of your shoes, all my life. I was in a white foster
home, I attended a church with white people, all my life. I have attended education systems that have
been built and mandated by 99.9% Anglo European people and thinking. And you know what I’m
going to say, I love you people, I hold nothing against you personally, I loved my parents and I had a
good life. But you know what, it’s not enough, it's not enough for my kids. My kids, I wanted them to
speak my language. I put them in French and some of that was a good experience but it was not
enough. We always say that French is the second language of this country. What about the first
languages that were here? What about the first teachings that were here? And you know what, we
are outnumbered. We have lived with that all our lives. And now we continue to say at this level that
when you come here OK yes, you know what we’re going to do this and we’re going to do and we
have all these mandates that are wonderful. But how will we walk them out? Are you going to walk
a mile in my shoes so that you can take my shoes and be a mile away from me? No. I want you to
walk a mile in my shoes so that we can walk hand in hand together and make this place a better place
for my children, for our immigrant families and I believe that the majority of these things need to
happen first and foremost in the core area of our city. Reality is that we all need safety, we all need
love, we all need food and clothing, but you know what, there is a life gap between us and other
people. There is a life gap which is a reality between all of us, and that influences our thinking and
our decisions. I would encourage you to think about that realistically, educationally, languages,
culture, diversity, inclusiveness and is that in this decision going to happen?
Deveryn Ross
My name is Deveryn Ross. My interest in this matter has four components. First of all I’m a Neelin
parent of a current Neelin student and one who hopes to be a Neelin student. I’m a resident of the
Rosser ward which obviously includes New Era School. I’m a former student of Park School and a
resident of the neighbourhood that feels still the adverse effects of closure and demolition of my
elementary school. I don’t want you to repeat the mistake that was made by School Trustees more
than 30 years ago because we're still feeling the harm from it. Finally I’ve worked and lived with
economically disadvantaged First Nation's youth for more than two decades. They obviously have a
huge stake in the outcome of this issue.
But I want to turn to the heart of the matter and I’ve asked Mr. Malazdrewicz if he could put the
March 23 resolution back on the screen. Because in my mind it controls everything we're doing here
and everything we should be talking about. At the March 23 meeting the Board passed a motion
which says the following: That the Board undertake a thorough and in-depth consultation with all
interested stakeholders for the purpose of determining a) whether there is broad base support for
the implementation of a French Milieu Program b) the manner of implementation of a French Milieu
Programs c) the timing of implementation of a French Milieu Program d) the location for
implementation of French Milieu Program. In my view this is the motion that we must focus on as it
makes the January 12th motion which listed the six options irrelevant.
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If I could digress for just a moment I think that this points to a serious problem that we’ve seen at
each of these four meetings. It seems that a number of its presenters have assumed that this Milieu
School is a done deal. We’ve heard two comments tonight, we’ve heard it at other meetings, people
who think the decision has already been made. They think they’re being asked to choose one of the
six options set out on the January 12th motion and you recall a speaker at the Neelin meeting, a mom
named Mrs. Sparks said that she had the impression that your minds were already made up and that
you were merely choosing the lesser of six evils. I think Delvina just said the same thing and the first
speaker tonight said the same thing. So we’re hearing a lot of that.
But the March 23 motion changed everything. Point a) of that motion makes clear that the
establishment of a Milieu school is now conditional on a showing of broad support for such a
program. Points b) through d) of that motion which relate to the manner, timing and location of a
French Milieu Program significantly broaden the issue, by freeing Board to consider options beyond
the six identified in your January 12th motion.
The six options listed in that motion are just that; six of probably dozens of viable options available to
you. Although you recently published an information bulletin regarding the public consultation on
the French Milieu School, it did not clear up the ambiguity, and I think it is obvious that the vast
majority of citizens who have spoken at the four meetings appear to be completely unaware of the
existence or at least the impact of this motion. They clearly thought that the six options were the
only options on the table and the comments made by Mrs. Sparks, by Delvina, and the first speaker
tonight whose name I didn't get, are a good example of that confusion. I also think that the comments
made at the beginning and the end of each of these four meetings, have contributed to the confusion
as too great an emphasis has been placed on the six options that are no longer relevant and too little
emphasis has been placed on the impact and meaning of the motion on the screen. Having dealt with
that, it seems to me that the March 23 motion really envisions a two stage consultation. First, point
a) Requires that the Board be satisfied that there is broad base support for the implementation of a
French Milieu Program. That requirement creates a fork in the road. If you conclude that there is no
broad base support for such a program, this process comes was complete stop, and the status quo
remains. That’s your decision. It’s already been made. And that’s the basis on which we’re
proceeding here tonight. I think it would be unfair to change the rules after these meetings. If you
conclude, however, that there is broad based support within the community for a French Milieu
Program, you may then pursue in fact you must then proceed to consider the issues listed points b)
through d) the manner, timing and location of the implementation of such a program. But I must
emphasize this, point a) makes it clear that you can only do that if you are first satisfied that there is
broad base support for the program. That makes sense because there is no point in wasting your
time and our time, and tax dollars addressing issues such as a manner, timing and location of the
implementation of a program the community doesn't want. So here's the question that needs to be
answered and which we should have been focusing on for the last four meetings.
Do the
presentations made over the past four nights cause you to conclude that there is broad base support
for the implementation of French Milieu Program? Before we can answer that question we have to
determine the meaning of the phrase broad base support. Thankfully you’ve already answered that
question. The Minutes of your March 23 meeting indicate that you voted for the motion based on the
understanding that broad base support is defined as the support of at least 50 percent of the
community. That’s in your minutes. That's the basis on which you voted. Using the 50 percent
threshold that you have established, it is abundantly clear that the answer to the question posed by
point a) of your March 23 motion is no . As the presentations have shown, there is no broad base
support for the French Milieu Program at this time. The question posed by point a) can be
approached from a number of angles but they all lead to the same negative answer. For example,
you have not heard a single presenter encourage you to raise school taxes or divert funds from other
areas of your budget in order to pay for a Milieu Program. To the contrary, you have heard a very
persuasive presentation at Neelin from a gentleman who is extremely concerned about the ongoing
escalation of school taxes. He pointed out, quite correctly, that if you continue your current trend of
tax increases school taxes will have doubled in seven years. You can safely conclude that there is no
broad base support in the community for tax increases or program cuts in order to pay for a Milieu
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Program. It doesn't exist. Another way of measuring support for the Milieu proposal is to assess the
level of concern with the quality of the existing French Immersion Program. On that issue opinions
are virtually unanimous. The existing French Immersion Program is one of the most successful
programs of the entire School Division. French Immersion students are consistently among the
highest performers on standardized tests. Another sign of the success of the program is the very fact
that it is exploding in growth at a time when the Division is experiencing declining enrolment in
other areas. If it was unsuccessful would that growth be occurring? No. Although two parents have
now expressed concerns about the quality of the existing French Immersion Program, many more
French Immersion parents and students have talked about how successfully the program equipped
them or their children for French language communication in their careers. Recall the submissions
made by Mrs. McCannell last night, who indicated that two of her children, both French Immersion
graduates, consider themselves to be bilingual and have spent considerable time in France with no
linguist difficulties. Her comments echo the comments you have heard from many French Immersion
graduates and their parents. The French Immersion Program is a great program. It's a success
story, it is not broken, it does not require fixing. Approaching the question from yet another angle, is
there broad support for escalating or transforming the already successful French Immersion
Program into a Milieu Program? In other words, we know it’s successful but how much support is
there to make it actually even better. Well, I think we’ve all been surprised, particularly at the New
Era meeting but even tonight, by the lack of widespread support for French Milieu Program even
among French Immersion parents and the complete absence of any support in the broader
community for the proposal. By my count, approximately twenty French Immersion parents have
now spoken in favor of a Milieu school proposal, in many cases husband and wife of the same,
obviously parents of the same students. Most of those parents and Mr. and Mrs. Forsyth are a good
example of this, see the Milieu School Proposal as an upgrade of the existing already successful
French Immersion Program. What has really surprised me and I suspect many of you, is the number
of current and former French Immersion parents and students who question the need for French
Milieu Program. A number of French Immersion parents have asked if their child could opt out of a
Milieu Program and remain in the existing French Immersion program if you decide to proceed.
Several French Immersion parents have talked about the social benefits their children have received
by going to a school that also had an English language program composed of children from a myriad
of cultures. They talked about the benefits of tolerance and multicultural diversity that their children
have gained at New Era and expressed a concern that their children would lose that positive
experience if you chose to proceed with the Milieu proposal at New Era. It’s a concern to them.
Other parents have spoken about concerns about segregation, that word. But it’s a word that people
have used. One speaker in particular, pointed out that segregation was outlawed in the U.S. long ago
and has never been a positive influence in any society. He raised a valid point, how do we balance the
small linguistic benefits that might be derived from isolating French Milieu students from other
students who speak other languages against a broader social and financial cost of doing so. That
leads to the most significant basis for the public’s rejection of this proposal and that’s cost. You’ve
circulated estimates of the cost of the six options originally considered by the Board. A number of
presenters have questioned the accuracy if not the credibility of those estimates. I believe that
certain questionable costs have been included in some of the options that may or may not be
necessary while costs have been left out of Option three. I can expand on this later but that’s the
position right now. To close, in addition to concerns about the fiscal costs of the Milieu proposal
many of the presenters have spoken passionately about the social cost of displacing the English
language students from New Era. Others have addressed the adverse impact that converting Neelin
to a Milieu school would have on Neelin’s Life Skills students. The vast majority of presenters at
every meeting including numerous French Immersion parents have told you that they will not
support a decision that results in the displacement of New Era’s English Language students. The
comments of Glen Kruk tonight need to be taken seriously. I can only repeat what he says. The
comments made by Glen reflect the comments made by dozens of people. I’m not going to repeat
them because of that. But I know that if we choose the Milieu Proposal it will make it even more
difficult for some of our most challenged students to attend school and doesn’t logic dictate that it
will result in an even higher drop out rate? I’m about to run out of time. In my view, the answer to
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the question posed by the Board is there is no broad based support in this community for the Milieu
Program and based upon that, we should not proceed.
Jenny Slominany
My name is Jenny Slomiany. I have one child in New Era School in the French Immersion Program
and I have two preschoolers at home that I hope will also go into the French Immersion Program. I
wasn't planning on sharing personal background information about the Immersion Program and my
experiences but following the last speaker I would like to do that at this time. I am a product of the
French Immersion Program. I started in Winnipeg and then my family moved to Brandon when I was
half way through grade seven and I attended New Era School. I went on to Neelin High School where
I did finish and graduated with my diploma. And at that time as you’re well aware, many parents
here who have children at Neelin, quite often you have to take all the courses to get your diploma, at
the time I went through, that was the case. I’m hoping, I did notice in the package it appears there’s a
few more available. I think that’s fantastic! I'm very excited that our program has grown
significantly since I was a student. I went on after high school to the college (Sp.?) where I attended
the university there and it is a French university so apparently my French was, you know, good
enough to be accepted into this university. I wanted to share the part about the Milieu because what
it would have given me, when I went on to the college (sp.?) as a student, so very much more
confidence, walking into a school where everything was in French. The biggest challenges for me
were registration time, going to the library and having to talk and interact with the librarian, the
other students, in French. I didn’t have that comfort level to speaking socially with people and that's
my understanding that a milieu would give our children that experience. And so that is why I share
that little bit of history for myself. I also then came back to Brandon and got an education degree
and became a teacher and because of the French I was awarded a job at a couple of other divisions
before getting a job with Brandon School Division and even when I was first in Brandon School
Division I applied for a French Immersion position. I thought, isn’t this great! I can come back and
give back and I will be honest that at that time I was actually told “Well, I don’t know really if your
French is just really that great,” which I found very surprising coming from the product of this School
Division. Now as it turned out I was then evaluated and they discovered that yes, my French was
certainly of a high enough standard to teach within Division and I did teach for a number of years in
the Immersion here in Brandon School Division. Now I will carry back onto what I had previously
planned to say. I did make a presentation to the Board on March 23 and showed my support for the
French Milieu and just would like to take this opportunity to again voice that support. I believe that
all students deserve the best educational opportunities and I know that you the Board of Trustees
has researched and educated yourselves about the best ways to teach the secondary language. And
our Board, then you informed us, the public and parents, that a French Milieu School is the best way
to teach French Immersion and I hope that you will base your decision regarding this topic on the
facts and the research. As a whole you've already agreed that the cultural setting enhances
secondary language learning and it is my hope that you will follow through and provide our students
with this opportunity. Tonight I am an advocate for my children and I want them to have the best
education. I like to see them have the opportunity to learn French Immersion in a French Milieu
setting, Thank you for your time.
James Chambers
Good evening. My name is James Chambers but I’ve been called a lot worse. I’ve spoken before at
previous sessions as well as presented to the Board. I think a lot of people have a good idea of where
I stand on things, well, so I wanted to give some background as to my beliefs as to who would benefit
from a French Milieu School and a stronger immersion program in the city of Brandon. First of all, I
come from a home that's not dissimilar to what's being discussed in the core area of Brandon. I’m
from a single income family, I lived with my mom most of my life into my teenage years. I had an
absentee father who when later in life, ended up succumbing to depression and paranoia, took his
life. I moved sixteen times before I got into grade eleven and I attended six different schools in that
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period. So I'm not fuzzy on the challenges of balance in our economy and what it means for students
who live with these challenges. At the same time I am also proud to say that I am a graduate of the
French Immersion Program. I do think that there are a number of things that have been said that are
being taken out of context and, for example, I appreciate this opportunity for input from the
community. And there are a number of people that have spoken on both sides, who are very
passionate about their friends, their families, their children most certainly, and the community
school that they are part of, What we don't have as parents, though, and as members of the
community at large, is access to the wealth of information, nor the position available to access that
information that you folks have. The question of broad based support comes up and what I would
like to point out is that perhaps in a way, the community has spoken. 90 percent of kids that are
enrolled in K – 8 right now are not in French Immersion so I think at a very high level it would be
very easy to take the position, “yeh, of course the community does not support French Immersion in
a broad based fashion.” However, if we look at what we currently have for French Immersion and
we look at enrolment trends in our Division and how they grow, but then take a step back and look
not only provincially but federally at the levels at which French Immersion enrolments are at in our
country, 5.4 percent of students in K – 8 in Canada are enrolled in French Immersion. Ten percent
of kids in Brandon are enrolled in French Immersion, that is an 85 percent higher enrolment rates in
our community. I think that that speaks volumes to the support that French Immersion has in this
community and I don't think that if you asked any of those parents that if they would like that
program improved, they would say no. So then we go to a matter of a comment that was made by a
previous speaker that along the lines that these children would be sacrificed. No one is pouring
kerosene on anyone here. We don’t have torches and no one's being chased with pitchforks, there’s
no sacrifice that's going on. What I do want to make sure that everyone understands though is that
there has to be compassion in our community for kids on both sides of the fence. Yes, we have 90
walking English students that would be displaced, on the other side of things we have 135 kids from
that same community who are enrolled in French Immersion who might be displaced. So this has to
be handled very delicately whichever way that you guys roll this. There was another comment made
about minor linguist benefits. I think that those comments are stemmed in false knowledge and
spoken with false pretense. If anyone speaks to people from other countries, as has been alluded to
already, if you go to any of the European countries, to countries all over the world, outside of Canada
and the United States, there is a strong trend and a strong history of teaching multiple languages and
as a result, Canada and the United States don’t even rank hardly in the top fifteen worldwide for
education among the First World Countries. So we have a number of things we need to address.
Sadly, we’re not at a point fiscally where we can broaden this conversation and include other world
languages at all of our schools, giving all of our students opportunity to learn languages. I think it’s
terribly unfortunate that for example in the core area of the school especially, that we don’t teach
Cree and other Aboriginal languages, that we don’t have those in the school. However, we have had
some things that are misspoken and I think that I’ll turn now to direct questions that I have. Bea
Jolly, you have from the start , sorry to single you out here, from the start you voted against French
Immersion, French Milieu as an option. In support of French Milieu and when we spoke previously
you had mentioned that you weren’t sure that you saw the significant benefits of it. In the March 23
meeting you said that while you had heard a number of people speaking in favour of it, that you
didn't see anyone talking about the benefits of a milieu program so I would like to just turn that and
ask for some clarification from the Board as to what research suggests that a milieu environment
would have a negative impact on the students. Thank you. That said, again I know I’m running out
of time here, I do have concerns about the way that the options were presented. I don't agree with
the six options as they were presented. I think that's a failing of the Facilities Board and I’ve said
that before. I think that's something like this, especially in an area where it will have the impact that
it will have in our city that coming forward with one year on knee jerk solutions to this, is not the
right way to approach this. And I don't think that anyone in the community, I think that as you’ve
heard, supports displacements of kids on either side of the fence. However, what I haven’t heard,
much support for either, or much word of either, is why you guys haven’t approached this from a
grandfathering perspective, where whether kids become right now that are enrolled in the English
Program can continue their studies at New Era as it exists. At which point it becomes, it’s still
community school, and I think that at that point it’s a choice for kids, whether or not they attend or
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not. Personally, I don't really, I’m not attached to a facility, and if you guys can come up with
another facility option, I think that’s great, but I do support French Milieu and I do ask that you take
care of all the kids in our community and that you continue this conversation forward, that you don't
stop this, that you recognize the support that is here in the community by 85 percent higher than the
national average. Thank you very much.
Stacy Poirier
Hi, I’m Stacy Poirier. I have two children in the French Immersion program at this time and all I
wanna say is I do support the implementation of the milieu. And I think the program is good but is
that all we’re striving for for these kids? Why can’t we have an excellent program that will give the
best possible learning experience?
Maureen Razzaghi
Hello, my name is Maureen Razzaghi. I am a French Immersion teacher at New Era School. I'm also
former milieu teacher. I taught in two milieu schools in Winnipeg and I just wanna say that, you
know, French Milieu is really the way to go. If we want our children to learn French, let's do it the
right way. We want the best for our kids, I know all parents, I know every parent here wants the
best for their children. I am a parent of two former children of New Era School and two children that
went to Neelin. And in grade eight, my daughter won the speech competition at New Era and was
invited to go to St. Boniface College to give her speech. And when we went, I was dumbfounded
because there were francophone students giving their speeches, there were French Milieu students
giving their speeches, there were dual track immersion students giving their speeches, and there
were basic French students giving their speeches. And the milieu students were way, far beyond the
dual track students. So if we want the best for our kids, we need to really think about that. Thank
you.
Ramona Coey
Wrap-up
Present: R. Coey, B. Jolly, D. Karnes, J. Murray, B. Mayes, M. Snelling
Regrets: P. Bartlettte, G. Buri, L. Ross
Attendance: Approximately 50 people.
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Harrison Survey Sheets: Feedback
Good luck, I know you have a tough decision ahead of you. Be firm, the decision is yours as elected
officials. But I appreciate that you listen. All will pass, people move on.
I strongly suggest your choice takes into respect the inclusion of the community without the
exclusion of some Education, cannot be focused on segregation. French Immersion program is vitally
important to some and should be realized.
My thoughts are that if the French milieu program is to be realized - they need to look at moving into
the private school sector and seek private funding. We need to all work together and live together in
the same community - why the need to segregate? If it needs to be in the public stream bus the
French students to another location.
Why change something that is working well? Your treating French Immersion like special needs kids.
This idea is very racist - why are we looking into separating instead of joining. New Era has so much
to offer multi-culturally - why jeopardize this? Equal opportunity for all. Are there enough French
Immersion substitute teachers? If many teachers are away, if they want a milieu school, English subs
should not be present in their school. Why not bus French Immersion students to O'Kelly and fill the
French program there? Many French students are bused - it is their choice to go into this program why overfill one school? Spread the French students within the two immersion schools we have
within our Division now. If a school is full, how can it still accept new students? We have yet to see
or hear any research showing the milieu school increases. Strongly oppose a French Immersion
parent not recognizing conflict of interest! It makes many tax payers wonder about holding this
position for the benefit of her own agenda. This is putting parents against parents, teachers against
teachers - is this what the Board wants? New Era is not a school of choice for the English students.
Neelin is the Immersion high school - they don't even have a French administrator - go from milieu to
no French Immersion?
The BSD touts itself as an inclusive Division. We are welcoming immigrants into our system and
bending over backwards to help them ease into our schools, city and country. Yet - we are not
funding and supporting the needs of our Aboriginal, poor and learning disabled children. These are
basics - money should not be spent to separate students to further one language unless all students'
basic needs are being met. A separate school at no cost to the BSD is the only option.
Do not separate the French from the English, it is wrong to separate these two cultures. Do not
remove the community schools program from the neighbourhood. We all need to work together to
resolve the space issue that is growing in the neighbourhood. Stop telling catchment area parents
that they aren't able to enrol in English because it is too full! How will the milieu program celebrate
cultural diversity? What are the impacts of implementing segregation as a way of increasing
student/community education? In the milieu proposed option there is a great deal of sacrifice to be
felt, what will those who so desperately need this program what will they sacrifice?
You have a difficult decision to make but please don't make life more difficult for students living in
poverty by moving them out of their community area school.
I believe there must be another option that will be cost effective and allow for the milieu program to
become a reality.
I have no negative feeling toward French milieu school, but I am truly worried about what might
happen to the English speaking students. I don't feel that Neelin should be closed as a high school.
Develop a committee comprised of a representative from the Board in general a representative from
the facilities committee, someone from Senior Administration and a parent representative from both
the English and French side of New Era to revisit the issue, review all options plus consider new ones
then make an informed decision that benefits the majority and provides the least disruption.
The option of alienating children within the community around New Era is unacceptable given that
schools are very centered to the fabric of the community. As the majority of current French
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Immersion are outside the catchment area it appears to make clear sense to establish a separate
building for French milieu.
The Divisional Futures and Liaison Committee is speaking to various groups regarding sustainability
in education without compromising the education of future generations. In addressing the issue of
French milieu and New Era school and the future of students in the core area - I hope the Board will
consider the question of sustainability and the effect their decision on this matter will have for the
education of future generations and Brandon's downtown.
I am a French Canadian mother of two. I grew up in a small French and Catholic town. My roots were
installed at a very young age, not only through my parents but through the community, nuns,
relatives and resources. I love Brandon and what it has to offer to my children. They have the choice
to do many different activities. I am so proud that Brandon offers a French program and look
forward to an enhanced French program. To be fully immersed I believe in French milieu. Best of
luck with the huge decision you're faced with, you have my full support. Thank you.
The programs available at this time should be sufficient in meeting the needs of those students who
wish to seek education in French language. If it’s not broke why fix it? Be creative - expand the
existing, not at the expense of others. We have French Immersion/Dual Track - why do we need
milieu? As a parent and taxpayer I have been appalled at the process and this is why I cannot
support any of the proposed options. The public consultation should have happened prior to any
options being set forth! Unacceptable, inappropriate. I offer no solutions, and leave with a bad taste
in my mouth.
Treat all children equally. There are 135 kids in the French immersion that walk to New Era, there
are 90 English students that walk. Treat both populations equally. Milieu is the strongest program
for learning French - it would be nice for Brandon to adopt the strongest model for learning French
and strive for excellence in the French Immersion program.
I am strongly opposed to a French milieu school.
Why was the Convergys building that sits empty not considered to be expropriated as it would house
the French milieu program? Is the Board prepared to expand the lunch program so all schools have
room for their students needing to stay for lunch?
No new school. No tax increase. Leave core kids at New Era.
No school tax increase. Do not move the core area children. No new school. Conflict of interest?
Possibility of Convergys to a French milieu school?
Additional Comments
Option 2 - YMCA would love to assist! Option 6 - would be great, but money is not there.
Configuration - the multiculturalism of New Era is beneficial (great opportunity) for all students.
Option 1 - we are in the year 2009 - I am embarrassed to know we have a Board representing us that
would even think of this suggestion. Option 3 - separates friends. Option 5 - even some French
teachers (at least one) went to school when this was like this before - was not a solution or it
wouldn't have changed.
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Online Surveys
FEEDBACK
I believe the English track is detrimental to the progress of true French "immersion" and milieu is the
best way to go. I have put my children in French learning for a reason and feel that having dual
tracks removes opportunity for their progression.
Our French Immersion graduates have received an excellent education in both French and English.
My own children went through the French Immersion program from Kindergarten to Grade 12. They
both were extremely successful in school and on the Grade 12 provincial assessments in
Mathématiques and English Language Arts. My son mentioned the other day that, while he no longer
speaks French on a regular basis, he can still read and understand the language. My daughter, who
currently works for the federal government, uses French on a daily basis, both orally and in written
form.
Having taught in the Immersion program, I believe that the greatest threat to the improvement of
students' language skills is their personal reluctance to speak the language!!! This is a concern in
français schools, as well.
I feel that before attending the consultation last night, I have been kept completely in the dark about
the issues with the current FI program and the space issues at New Era. If asked if I would be
interested in improving my children's education I would have been behind the idea immediately.
But, to be told that the FI program is going to be changed to a Milieu program and my input is
requested on where it will be located. First of all what is French Milieu, second of all, what is wrong
with the education my child is currently getting? To describe the benefit as a strong French cultural
environment is misleading. I am not French, I do not care if my child learns Quebec culture, as it has
nothing to do with our heritage, if that is something I wanted for our family I would move to Quebec.
The ONE AND ONLY reason my children are in FI is to learn the FRENCH LANGUAGE. If there is a
better way to do this, then I support it, but please do not keep us in the dark, give us information
before decisions are made, convince us that this is best for our children. I feel that the handling of
this by the school board is unacceptable. I agree that Ramona Coey does have a conflict of interest in
this matter, as it appears from the literature provided last night, she is the driving force behind the
whole Milieu idea. I believe that the conflict may cause a problem because to push for the betterment
of the FI program for her children and mine at the expense of the English track children is going to
end up haunting the board of trustees and diminish trust in you in the future. Thank you for the
opportunity to get more information what I felt was a terrifying grey cloud over my daughters'
education and clarifying exactly what problems the teachers at New Era face on a daily basis. Thank
you for allowing us all to comment, and provide you with our opinions.
My main concern is with Option #2. We currently have a daughter who has attended Neelin High
School since Grade 9 and will be graduating in 2010. We have a younger daughter who will be
attending Neelin in the fall of 2009 entering into Grade 9. We chose Neelin because of the smaller
student base as we did not want our children attending the larger high schools. They have more
access to making the sports teams, more personable and family oriented where you are considered
more than a number and are not lost in the big scheme of things. We would be very upset if the
decision is made to convert Neelin to a full French immersion program forcing the English speaking
students to attend Vincent Massey or Crocus Plains. With our older daughter graduating next year, it
would be devastating to her to have to graduate from a different high school and leave a place that
has been a very positive experience for her in so many ways. My recommendation would be to
convert the existing ACC location to a full French Immersion school for K-12 and leave all other
schools out of it.
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Space is an issue and needs to be addressed very quickly, thus having this school at New Era is the
easiest solution. There are over 135 FI students walking to French Immersion there right now, which
makes that the greater population of downtown core area children choosing FI over the English
program (90 walking students) in the area. This means that the FI program is also like a core-area
community school as well. These kids should not be overlooked. I feel that we should look at the
statistics and use them to help in the decision-making, rather than going with an emotional response.
Please reconsider the decision to create a French milieu program. The French immersion program
now in place is wonderful and can be improved as it is to be even better without segregation. Deal
with the space issue by creating another immersion school for the middle years. Use empty buildings
in the city core if more space is needed in this area.
Bottom line, please do not displace the kids who live in the New Era catchment area who attend the
English-track program. If space is truly the issue then I feel options, that are not currently part of
options 1-6, may be (I) an addition to New Era without changes in programming or (ii) more than
one school should offer the French immersion program. The only option presented I partially agree
with is French students should move to a new school, but I don't believe it should be Milieu and I'm
concerned about the cost implications. As a researcher myself, I'm interested in any research
comparing milieu and French-track programs but really do not see anything conclusive published.
Anecdotally , I do not see any advantage to French Milieu over French Immersion and in fact, I think
there are some negative aspects to the Milieu program (e.g. a sense of elitism, loss of opportunity to
experience the many cultures present in our city).
As our nations' other official language those of us who have chosen to give our children their best
chance for success deserve a program that is dedicated to their success. I feel dual track and other
tracks such as aboriginal only programs are detrimental to that progress not to mention
unnecessarily administration heavy. Not to mention keeping New Era as an English school simply to
not inconvenience families living in the area teaches children that life is easy and everything will be
handed to them - we need to show our children that sometimes they need to work a little harder to
earn what they get in life - if that involves learning how to use public transit - then so be it. Either
way - BG school is NOT so far away that it would be an inconvenience to kids.
I see a huge need for a new school sooner then the board anticipated and should be considered now.
With more population this is seen in the hospital now as there is no room. A ne school in the SE area
should be happening now not later nothing is going to help without leasing the stress on other
schools. A French centre could remain in New Era as I do not believe the majority of the population
wants a all French Milieu school. We are not in Quebec yet are we?
As a parent of a grade 3 student I find it very frustrating that there was not enough funding to have
two grade three classes even though the class size was over 33 students. We as parents had to go to
administration and the board many times before this was addressed. Before Xmas the class was split
into two classes. It has been hard on some kids in that the separation of classes felt like punishment.
They did not understand that it was only to ensure better learning not create a rivalry where one
class is smarter than the other. I can not imagine what separating kids who have been in the same
school or even dividing English or French speaking students would do to their self esteem and social
development. It would create a hostile learning environment for some. Also how can you justify
cutting jobs of teachers and support staff based on what language they speak. And where would the
money come from to pay for separate admin.??? In my child's school there needs to be more E.A.s as
well more full time teachers. I would rather my tax dollars went to helping the schools that need it
not to change programs that are already working and to be honest to help my child's learning
environment, and have more funding for the music programs, not to a French Milieu school that
would not benefit my family in any way. We do not support a French Milieu school in any shape or
form.
Milieu is the best delivery method for the French Immersion program and the students enrolled in
the program should not have to settle for 2nd or 3rd best. New Era is the ideal location as far as
facility is concerned – it’s centrally located and has enough gym space and classrooms for the French
Immersion program to grow. English students attending New Era are the most transient in the
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division and taking New Era out of the number of schools they may attend during their education in
the BSD may provide that much more stability in their lives by having one less school to move to.
There are so many empty seats in the division that a new school or additions to existing schools can’t
be justified.
It's my understanding that a French Milieu program is the most effective way to ensure our students
receive the optimum quality bi-lingual education. Why would we opt for anything less? Moving into
this format will present the challenges that any change presents and I expect all students, English and
French, will adjust just fine provided they aren't coached into problems by adults-parents, teachers,
community, and board members- with their own axes to grind. Children want to learn and to do so in
safe, peaceful, and challenging/stimulating environments. (I couldn't find a way to undo the K-12
configuration).
I feel strongly that French should be offered to all / as many students as possible, through as many
grade levels as possible, without segregation or creating an "elitist" program.
Is this really necessary? The money this would cost could be better spent helping special needs
children in the school board. Providing them with appropriate services and help. I am FI parent and
think the program at New Era as it stands is just fine.
We don't need one its a waste of time and money!!!!!!!!!
There is absolutely no need for a French Milieu school in Brandon MB. There is a French Immersion
program that should provide adequate 2nd language programming. We have many nationalities now
in the city. As a taxpayer, we pay enough in school taxes. We can not afford a FM school. Money is
better spent teaching kids the three R's. As an employer, we have MANY high school and high school
graduates that can neither read, nor write legibly, nor take direction. Our new immigrant citizens are
bringing their families here, will pay taxes here and should be entitled to have their children learn
and upgrade their English while learning. That would be money well spent - not satisfying a few
select families with FM schooling. To separate the FM schooling is pure segregation...
One option --- Neelin for the milieu school but letting all current Grade tens work through the school
but not allowing any new grade ten classes not to start. Yes there will be the last two years where the
school would be fairly empty but that would allow time/space for renovations. The current
immersion students can continue in New Era and Immersion would not be ever shut down as a
majority would not move over to the new Milieu anyways. Neelin can be set up so the grade 9-12 are
separated from the Youngsters!
Your approach was all wrong....do what you said you were going to do...follow your own agenda...get
a definite number of people committed to this program...then worry about what to do and where to
do it. You are ahead of yourselves. Oh...and you may want to appear a little more interested and
enthusiastic in the future...one nameless trustee could not have appeared less interested...twirling his
feet, doodling on his paper...and another was applying lipstick as a concern was being presented.
How embarrassing for our school board.
Start a second French Immersion school that can grow with the population of Brandon. The trend
appears to be a growing interest in this program with 800 students being a realistic outcome within
four or five years. New Era can not accommodate that many even if the English students are
removed. Therefore, keep the dual track as it is in New Era and start a second location in a school
where there is room for the growing overflow of French students. Let the French Milieu program
evolve at this location and give the parents the option of what they think would be best for their
child.
The idea of moving the 7 and 8 from New to Neelin is a great idea. And since the French immersion
students have to be speaking French at all times it would keep them closer together. Maybe the
change from grade 8 to 9 won't be as enormous to some kids then as it is now. But will something be
done about a French milieu for grade 9-12 as well???
I will not support a milieu program that causes harm to the English students at New Era. My children
graduated from the FI program and consider themselves bilingual. There is nothing wrong with the
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existing FI program that would justify the expense and harm that would be caused to the New Era
English students. Unless you can come up with a proposal that will do no harm to those students, I
will continue to oppose the milieu program. For that reason, I do not regard any of the options listed
as viable.
This is an utter waste of our tax dollars for a relatively small segment of the population. We did not
ask for this nor was it an issue at the last election. Leave it alone, let it be decided at the next election.
Get back to the basics required by everyone in order to be a constructive member of society. Let
those who wish to add special privileges for their children pay for it themselves, don't make us all
pay at the expense of the majority.
let it go
How could a person as racist as (trustee) be on this school board! This is a direct disadvantage to
already disadvantaged children to take them from New Era. Some of these kids only get one meal a
day and it is from the New Era breakfast program.
I don't understand why the French Immersion and the school board are trying to change a program
that has absolutely nothing wrong with it. The French speaking students are no higher in intellect
than the English speaking so why is it that they are going to be treated differently. I am a strong
Aboriginal parent and so if my daughter and other status children wanted their own school to learn
strictly Aboriginal culture and teachings this could be done? As well as with all other languages
present. I don't see the school division building Spanish speaking or Chinese speaking schools, so
why the difference with the French?
With the information provided it seems that option #3 would be most logical. It also seems clear that
our city is showing great support for the program in its enrolment numbers...approximately 70
students. We must also agree that New Era is beyond practical capacity currently (540 students with
a practical capacity of 520). Therefore a population must move. New Era also seems to be the only
facility able to house the current French immersion population and all of the other facilities look to
be under capacity (Betty Gibson, Earl Oxford, and King George). The preliminary cost projections
show option #3 to be the most financially responsible. Basing this on the information provided I
think Occam's Razor is a relevant principal- all things being what they are, select the hypothesis with
the fewest assumptions and postulates the fewest entities (Option #3). How we address the
population concerns will answer the milieu debate. I look forward toward your decision.
I would like to keep the programming the same as it is now. I like the fact my children can communicate
with their friends in their first language (English). If we spoke French at home I might think differently. I
suggest moving grade 7 and 8 to Neelin and leave the school a dual track immersion program.
I have two children that attend Meadows. I feel that the dual track system is working fine and should stay
that way. I do not want Neelin High School to be taken away from the English program and turned into a
milieu school. The other two high schools are busting at the seams and this is not the correct thing to do! I
attended Neelin and a lot of my friends attended New Era. I want my children to have the same
opportunities and attend Neelin. Out of all my friends that attended New Era, only one is using her French
Immersion skills, and the rest speak and write English. Kids are struggling with English in all of the
schools - we have many EAL students in the Division and that will only increase each year. We as parents
need to make sure that our children can speak and write English as our first language. If our French
Immersion students want to continue their studies they can in Winnipeg. My brother did and works in
Toronto. Right now in our city what are the opportunities for French milieu program other than teaching?
We don't have any French communities in Brandon i.e. stores, businesses, etc. like other towns or cities in
Manitoba. I don't want my tax dollars being used for something that only a small portion want, and
especially being used to change Neelin High School to a milieu program. We have enough issues with
many other items in schools that should be looked after first ex.. Meadows is busting at the seams with
students and no air conditioning, kids are fainting because of the extreme heat all because the school was
built as an open room school and now we have a bunch of closed rooms with no circulation. Maybe one
should review that. Thank you for your time. Please keep Neelin as an English high school. - Angie
Williamson
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