Speaker1:
BulletproofRadio,astateofhighperformance.
Dave:
You'relisteningtoBulletproofRadiowithDaveAsprey.Today'scoolfactofthedayis
thatscientistsnowbelievethatifwetookalloftheiceandwateroutofthemoon's
interiorthatyoucouldcoverthemooninaboutanoceanofthreefeetofwater,which
iskindofcool.[inaudible00:00:30]thinktherewasnoiceonthemoon.Inadditionto
runningBulletproofRadio,I'malsoafulltimeCEOatBulletproof.We'reacoffee
company.Wemakenootropicsandthingslikethat,andoneofthethingsthatIpay
attentiontoishiring.SomethingthatI'dliketosharewithyouisifyou'rehiring,doyou
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Today'sguestisafriendandaguyyoumayhaveheardofwho'sdonesomethingsthat
I'vealwaysbeenimpressedby.HisnameisNaveenJain.NaveencametotheU.S.asan
Indianentrepreneurwith$5bucksinhispocket.HefoundedInfoSpace,oneofthe
companiesthatactuallyhelpedmegraduateformyundergraddegreebecauseIwas
doingonlineresearchwheneveryoneelsewasusingmicrofiche.Itwasanunfair
advantage,andthiswaswaypre-Google.Atonepointthiscompanywasworth$31
billionatthetimewhenIwasworkinginaninfrastructureaswell.Infact,Ithink
InfoSpacewasanAxisCommunicationscustomer,ifIrememberright.
Naveen:
Yes.
Dave:
SincethenNaveen'sgoneontoown,IthinkwithHowardSchultzyouownedoneofthe
bigsportsfranchises,theSeattleSonics.You'vestartedMoonExpress,oneofthemost
prominentastroidandmoonminingkindofcompaniesoutthere,whichisshockingand
amazing.Nowyou'vemovedinthelastcoupleyears,sincewe'vegottentoknoweach
other,intohackingthehumanbodyinareallymeaningful,interestingwayusing
researchfundingoutofLosAlamosNationalLabs.Iwanttotalkwithyoutodayabout
howyougottobewhoyouare.Iwanttotalkcertainlyalittlebitabouthackingthe
humanbodybecauseouraudienceisallabouthumanperformance,butreallyIwantto
knowhowdoyoupossiblygofrom"I'manInternetguy"to"I'mamoonminingguy"to
"I'mlookingattheRNAinsidethehumanbody"guy?
Thesearesuchdiversefieldsandyou'vebeenverysuccessfulintwoofthethree,andI
believethethirdoneiscoming.Iwanttohearyourstory.Ithinkourlistenersaregoing
tobeprofoundlyinterested.Welcometotheshow.
Naveen:
Asanentrepreneur,it'sreallyallaboutexecution.Peoplegetsofocusedontheideas.
Ideasareadimeadozen.Asanentrepreneur,allwehavetodoissimplyfocusonwhat
arethebiggestchallengesfacinghumanity?Ifyouwanttocreateabilliondollar
company,it'strivial,allyouhavetodoissolvea$10billionproblem.Aslongasyoufind
whatarethebiggestproblemsthatwecansolve,andnowthemostinterestingthing
thatIfindisthatconfluenceandconvergenceofexponentialtechnologies,youandI
andasmallgroupofpeoplearecapableofdoingthingsthatonlythelargecompaniesor
thenationstatescoulddo.
Imaginewhenwelandonthemoonthisyear,notonlywebecomethefirstprivate
companyevertodoso.Webecomethefourthsuperpower.Justthinkforasecond,we
becomethefourthsuperpowereverhavetoachievethefeatofleavingearthorbitand
landingonanyplanetwebody.Whatthatshowsisthenextsetofsuperpowersarenot
goingtobenationofstates,it'sgoingtobetheentrepreneurslikeyouandIwhoare
goingtogooutandsolvetheproblem,whetheritiscreatingtheabundanceoffresh
water,creatingtheabundanceofenergy,gettingridofthefossilfuelsandmaking
completelycleanenergy,it'sgoingtobeanentrepreneur,whetherit'stheElonMuskor
JeffBezosorRichardBransonorDaveAsprey.Itisgoingtobeoneofuswho'sgoingto
gooutandsolvethebiggestproblemsfacinghumanity,andwehavetechnologyatour
disposaltodoso.
Dave:
There'sabunchofpeople,let'ssay,I'moneoftheadvisorsforthePeterTeal20Under
20.I'vementoredsomeofthepeopleinthis.Forlisteners,thisisaprogramwherePeter
Tealactuallypaysyoutoquitcollegeandstartacompanywhenyou'reyoungandyou
don'tknowanybetterbecausethenyoudon'tevenknowwhatyou'renotsupposedto
do.You'lljustgothroughandyou'llbreakstuffthatneedsbreaking.That'stheheartof
disruption,whichmywholecareer'sbeendisruptingbigtelecomsthatdostupidthings,
likelet'smaketheInternet.You'veclearlydisruptedthingsthatareactuallyreallyhard
todisruptthough.
It'seasytositherefromapositionofaguywithalotofmoneywhocanwritebig
checksandyoucanfundyourownthingsandyou'reaprofessionalinvestorwho's
backedalotofsuccessfulcompanies.Youhavethisweightbehindyouofmomentum
andresources,soyoucansolvea$10billionproblem.Nowlet'ssayyou'reasophomore
atStanfordandyou'relike,"Okay,I'minspired.IbelieveIwanttomaketheworlda
betterplace.I'mmissiondriven.WhatdoIdo?"Whatyousaythereiskindofabig
thing.
Naveen:
What'sveryinterestingisthatjustbecauseyourvisionisbig,doesn'tmeanyouhaveto
boiltheoceanondayone.Whatyoudoisyoutakeasmallsliceoftheproblemandyou
startsolvingit.Thethingyouhavetostartwithsayingiswhenyoustartabusiness,ask
yourselfaquestion.GodforbidifIamactuallysuccessfulindoingwhatI'mgoingtodo,
canitactuallyscale,canitactuallyhelpbillionsofpeople?Isthereamarketthat'sbig
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enoughthatIcangosaturateandthengooutandproveitinaverysmallmarket?Make
sureyoutweakitandyougeteverythingworking.Onceyougeteverythingworkingthe
beautyofthethingisthecapitalisnot[inaudible00:06:43].
Capitalgoeswithaportionthatis[inaudible00:06:45].Youmaybethesophomoreat
Stanford,butguesswhat,ifyoucreatessomethingthatyouhaveproveninasmall
marketthatitworksandit'sscalable,themoneywillcometoyoubecauseeveryoneof
theguyswiththemoneyhastwothings:they'regreedyandthefearofmissingout.
Theywillcomeandgiveyouallthemoneyyouneedsoyoucangooutanddothethings
thatyoucandobecausetheywanttobepartofthesuccess.Everyonewantsto
associatethemselvesassuccess.TheadvantageyouhaveasasophomoreatStanfordor
anyothercolleges,reallysimple.Whenyou'reanon-expert,you'reabletolookatthe
problemverydifferentlyjustlikeyoumentioned.
Onceyouactuallybecomeanexpertinthefield,it'sagoodthingtosomeextent,but
you'reonlyabletoimprovethingsincrementally,maybe10percentor15percent,
whichisnotbad,butthatdoesnotcausedisruption.Ifyouwanttodisruptsomething
10Xor15X,youreallyhavetochallengethefoundationthateverythingthatpeople
havetakenforgrantedwhoareexpertsinthefieldandchallengethat.Whenyoulook
atinthehumanbody,doctorsaretaughtweareahomogenousorganism.Weconsistof
ourDNAonourgenesandthat'sallthatmatters.Untilweallstarttolookatourselves
andsayingweareanecosystem,whichisonly10percenthumanand90percent
microbial.Wehavethewholeclimateinsideofus,andwhenwedon'ttakecareofthe
climate,weallknowwhathappens.Theorganismgetssick.
ThecompanythatIstartedcalledViome,ourgoalisreallynotthatbig.Wewantto
makesicknessoptional.Wewanttomakesicknesselective.Peopleshouldneverget
sick.Theonlyreasontheygetsickistheirgutflora,thegutmicrobiomeisanimbalance,
andwhenthat'sanimbalanceyourimmunesystemgoesinimbalance.Ifyoudon'thave
aproperdiet,yournutrientsandyourbiochemistryofyourbodygoesinimbalance,and
that'showyougetsick.
Dave:
There'sreallyonlyfiveorsixenvironmentalfactorsthatcomposealloftheepigenetic
factorsforyou.It'sthetoxinexposuresortofthing.
Naveen:
And[inaudible00:09:02],diet.
Dave:
Yeah,thediet'spartofyourenvironment,right?Youbasicallyhavelight,youhave
vibration.Youhaveradiationincluding...wellthat'spartoflightsbasicallybutyouhave
electromagneticfrequenciesthatarealsopartofthewholeradiationspectrum,and
temperatureandtime.Otherthanthat,it'sallthere.Allofthoseinfluencethegut
bacteria.Theyinfluenceourcells,allthelivingsystemslisten.Whatyou'redoing
though,tellmealittlebitmoreaboutthis.OneofthereasonsthatI'mheretodayisI
justfoundoutoverthelastfewmonthsaboutwhatyou'reupto.YouknowI'vebeen
workingonHackingtheHumanBody.That'spartofmygoalwithBulletproofisgiveus
controlofourbiology,andbecausewe'rebotholdInternetguys,weknowthefirstthing
youdotogetcontrolisyouinstrument.
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Ifyoucanmeasureit,youcancontrolit.
Naveen:
Absolutely.
Dave:
YouhaveaverydifferentvibeonmeasuringthehumanbodythananybodyI'veever
talkedto.Walkmethroughwhatyou'redoing.
Naveen:
Ofcourse.Whatwe'redoingisifyoucananalyzeyourbodyatamolecularlevel,ifyou
reallythinkaboutitwemaybereallycomplex,butwe'rereally,reallysimple.Attheend
ofthedayourbodyisabiochemicalindustry.There'sthebiochemistryofourbody.That
meansifyou'reabletomeasureallofthemetabolites,thesmallmoleculesinyour
body.Thenyoufocusonallthegutmicrobiome,whichis90percentofthecellsinyour
gut.AsopposedtogettingfocusedontheDNA,yousimplyfocusonthethingsthatare
actuallyhappening,whichisRNA.BylookingattheRNA,you'reabletoseewhatis
activeandwhatthefunctionalityofthesethingsarebecauseyoucanlookatthe
enzymesandtheproteins.
Whatwedoiswelookatyourgutandwesayinagut,sinceattheendoftheday90
percentoftheimportthatyouhavereallyiscomingthroughthegut.Ifyoucanfigure
outwhatishappeninginsideyourgut,youcanessentiallyseehowhumanbodyisgoing
toreacttoit.Infact,25percentofallthemetabolitesinyourbodyareproducedonlyby
themicrobiome.Whenyoustarttoseethatwhydowehavesomanydiseasesthat
neverusedtohappenbefore,whetheryoustarttothinkaboutautoimmunediseases,
theallergies,theeczema,theAlzheimer'sdisease,theautism,thedepression,theADHD
andanxiety,theymaylookalldifferent.Thesymptomsmaybedifferent;theunderlying
costforallofthemisexactlythesame,whichisimbalanceofyourmicrobiomeandyour
immunesystemrespondstotheenvironmentthatyouarein.
Dave:
Inthenewbookthat'scomingoutinApril,thenewBulletproofbookcalledHeadstrong,
Ireadalotaboutthemitochondriainthebody.Whenweweresittingdownbeforethe
show,youweresayingbutthosearealljustbacteriaanyway.Forlisteners,the
mitochondria,thesepowerplantsinyourcells,youhavelikeathousandintheaverage
celland10,000insomeofyourmorepowerfulcellslikeyourbrain,youreyes,your
heart.They'rereallyjustbacteriathathavehighlyspecializedtoworkwithinourbody.
Doyouconsiderthemitochondriatobeapartofyourmicrobiome?
Naveen:
Itistosomeextent.Thinkaboutit,it'sanRNA,right?Whatwe'redoingis,ifyouthink
aboutinthebeginningwewereasinglecell,andaswebecamethismulticellthing,this
symbionicrelationship,mitochondriawasabacteriaandthenitbecameanorganelle
withinourowncell.NowinfactourhumanDNAonlyproduces20,000genes.Our
microbesinourgutproduce10milliongenes.Youcanseewho'scontrollingwho.What
reallyishappeningandthelatestresearchisshowingwhetherthediseaselike
Parkinson'sactuallystartsinyourgut.Theydon'tstartinyourbrain,andyou'reableto
controlwhathappensinsideofyourbodythroughyourdietandnutrition.
IknowyouandIaregoingtohaveabountyonourheadfromallthesepharmaceutical
companiesbecauseattheendofthedaythebiggestblockbusterdrugissomethingwe
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doeveryday,whichisthefoodweeat.Allwehavetodoistaketherightsupplements,
whicharenutrientsthatyourbodyneeds,becausewhat'sthebiochemistry?Itrequires
themolecules,itrequirestheenzymes,anditrequirestheco-factor.Ifyouknowwhat
enzymeisnotbeingproducedbyyourbodyorislessorwhatco-factorismissing,you're
abletocompletetheenergycycle.Whenyou'retired,it'snotthereissomethingwrong
withyou.
Dave:
That'snotweakness.
Naveen:
It'snottheweakness.It'sjustsimplythebiochemistryofyourbodyisnotworking
becauseyoulackcertainenzymesorco-factor.That'swhyIloveBulletproof.Ilove
BulletproofbecausehonestlyatourhomewehaveapantryfullofBulletproofsupplies.
There'snothingbetterIwoulddothantowakeupinthemorning,startwitha
BulletproofcoffeeandhaveBulletproofsupplements.Thethingthatwehavereally
donenow,whichIthinkissosynergisticisnowworkingwithViome,withBulletproof,
we'reabletorecommendexactlywhatsupplementsyouneed,andasyourbodyis
adaptingyoucankeepchanging,butbetterthanthat.Youdon'thavetohaveafate
anymorethatisthisBulletproof[inaudible00:14:20]actuallymakingyourmitochondria
betterornot.Youcanseeit.
ThepointisViomewillshowyouwhyBulletproofactuallyworks.It'snolongera
religion.It'snolongerafraid.It'sascience.Thattomeiswhatthebeautyofthethingis.
Iknewitworks.NowIhavetheproofitworks.
Dave:
Alotofushavelearnednottotrustourfeltsense.IthinkitworkedbutmaybeI'mbeing
deceivedbymyself.
Naveen:
Theplaceboeffect.
Dave:
Thebottomlineisweunderstandalotofbiochemistryandwecantalkaboutit,but
whatyou'redoingisdifferentbecausethere'svariousmitochondrialfunctiontestsand
infactoneofthesetsofresearchthatIwroteaboutinHeadstrong,48percentof
peopleunderage40havemitochondrialdysfunction.Theycallitearlyonset.Everyone
overage40hasmitochondrialdysfunction;theycallitaging.It'salwaysthere.Inmy
viewofthings,afterthisreallydeepresearch,isthatthegutbacteria,theytalktoour
bacteria,whicharetheorganellesinourcells,mitochondria.Theytalkactuallyvia
biophotons,vialight.Peoplearegoing,"What?"
Thisisnowwellestablishedinbioengineeringcircles.There'sasemiconductivething
foronefemtosecond,theselittlephotonscomeoutandweknowmitochondriaare
photoreactive.There'sachemicalmessenger...
Naveen:
Ofcourse.
Dave:
...andaveryhighspeed,justthewayweusedtobuilddatacenters.There'shighspeed
signalingandlowspeedsignaling.Hormonemaychangeorasignalingmoleculeoran
enzyme.Atthesametime,there'salmostrealtime,likefiberoptickindof
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communications.Thisiswhyyoueatsomethingand20minuteslateryoucanbelike,
"Something'snotright,"anditmaybeabloodsugardrop,butitmaybemoreofasignal
ofanenergycrisisthatcamefromthebacteriainyourguygoing,"Youjustateantibiotic
taintedmeat,sonowI'mgoingtoshiftyourenergyregulationdown."
WhatareyoudoingatViomethat'sgoingtobedifferent?Icanguessoxygen
consumption,there'sallsortsofwaystoknowifmitochondriaworks.
Naveen:
Theinterestingthingisweareactuallymeasuringeverysinglebiochemistryofyour
humanbody.Whenyou'redoingthe[inaudible00:16:24],inotherwordswe'relooking
atRNA,everysinglethingthat'sbeingexpressed.
Dave:
Ithinksomelistenerswillgetlostbythat.RNAcomesoutanditreadsDNA.YourDNAis
whereyourgenesarestored,andRNAhastounpackageneusing,bythewayyouuse
applecidervinegar,yougetacetalgroups,whichallowyoutounpackyourstuffbetter.
Sidenote,brainoctaneincreasesketones,whichmakeiteasiertounpackDNAsoRNA
canreadit.Whatyou'relookingatisnotthestuffontheharddrive.You'relookingat
thethingthatcopiesthestuffontheharddrivetoseewhatit'sdoing.
Naveen:
What'sinthememory?
Dave:
Exactly.
Naveen:
Thebeautyofthethingisjustbecauseyourgeneshaveapotentialtoexpress
something,itdoesn'tmeanthey'rebeingactuallyexpressed.Theepigenetics,the
acetylationandthemethylationoftheDNAarethegenesactuallycontrolsifthey're
goingtobeexpressed,howmuchthey'regoingtobeexpressedorthey'regoingtobe
allexpressed.Actuallythemicrobiomeactuallycontrolsthat.Whenyou'reeatingand
yousay,"I'mfeelingfullorI'mfeelinghungry,"wellyouknowwherethatsignalcomes
from?Thatcomesfromyourmicrobiome.Youlivetofeedyourmicrobiome.Whenthey
say,"Iamfull,"youknowwhathappens?Itreleasesaleptin.
YourbrainreleasesLeptinandsays,"Ohmygod,IthinkI'mfull."Whenitreleases
ghrelin,itsays,"I'mhungry."
Dave:
OneofthethingsIlearnedintheBulletproofdietresearchisthatIdon'tactuallytrust
mygutbiomebecauseit'snotactinginmybestinterests.Thebacteriainmygutbelieve
thatI'maPetriedishandthey'regoingtocontrolmelikeone.Thebacteriainsidemy
cells,themitochondria,theybelievethatI'maPetriedishandthey'regoingtocontrol
melikeone.Theirgoalsareclosertominethanmygutbacteria.There'sasymbionic
relationship,butit'skindoflikewe'regettingasignalfromthegutbacteria,andthen
ourownbacteriaaresaying,"Wellyouknowwhat,Ithinkyoushouldusethisenergyto
gooutandreproduce,sodon'twork,gooutonadateinsteadanddosomethingfun
andrunawayfromthings."
Allofourcorebasebehaviorsseemtobedrivenatacellularlevel.
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Page 6 of 34
Naveen:
Itistrue,butIdon'tthinkyourgutbacteriaactuallyisreallyaparasite.Itisasymbionic
...
Dave:
Sometimesitisright?
Naveen:
Actuallyveryrarelybecauseyourememberwhat'shappeninghere.Forexample,then
youeatfiber.OurhumanDNA,thehumanbodycannotdigestfiber.Itgoestoyourlarge
intestineandthemicrobeseatthefiber,anddoyouknowwhattheydo?Inturn,they
releasetheshort-chainfattyacids.Thatiswhatourbodyneeds.Insomesensewefeed
themandtheyfeedus.Naturewasvery,verysmart.Naturethought,"IfIhavetocreate
thiscomplexhumanbody,itisgoingtobesocomplexthatIhavetocreateamassive
amountofgeneticthinginasinglecelltodothat."Naturerealized,"Waitasec,allthese
functionsarebeingprovidedbydifferentofthesebacteria.Whatifwecanputthemall
togethertodothiscomplexthing?"That'showwebecameanecosysteminourselves.
Whenweeatprocessedfood,whenweeatthethingsthatarebadforourmicrobiome,
it'slikeputtingafossilfuelsinsideyourbodyandwatchingitjustcompletelygetting
destroyed.Whenyoutakeantibiotics,it'slikenukingtheplanet.It'snukingthebody.It
completely,itdoesn'tcare,goodorbad,itkillsallthebacteria.Guesswhathappens.
Thebacteriathatsurvives,itjusttakesover.
Dave:
Italsogetspissedoff.
Naveen:
Ohgodyes.
Dave:
OneofthethingsthatIlearnedaboutinmyowncourseofhealingfromtoxicmoldin
myhouseandjustlosingahundredpoundsandallisthatwhenyoustressabacteriaor
afungusorayeast,whatever,theymake10to100timesmoreoftheirownnatural
toxins.Likesomethingjustkilledeverything,Ibettergetaggressive.Thosetoxinsare
calledlipopolysaccharides.Theycrossthegutbarrier,andtheycausebrainfog,fatigue,
autoimmunity,leakyguy,andprettymuchtiedtoeverybaddiseaseincludingcancer
andAlzheimer'sthatyoucanname.
Naveen:
Absolutelycorrect.Thatisbythewaythecancerdoesexactlythesamething.Canceris
notthehomogenouscell.It'sheterogeneous,andit'sactuallyanorganisminitself.
Whenyoudothechemotherapyanditsurvives,firstthingwhatdoesitwanttodo?It
wantstospread.
Dave:
It'swaymoreaggressive,right.
Naveen:
Itwantstospreadbecauseitknowsit'sunderattack.Whenit'sunderattack,itwantsto
spreadalloveryourbodybecausethat'showtheorganismsurvives.Ifyoueverfight
evolution,evolutionwins.Ifyouwanttogooutandyouwanttoattackthisbacteria,not
onlydotheybecomeantibioticsforthisstrand,andthentheybecomesotoxicthatit
startstoeattheorganisms.Theotherthingthathappensiswhenyoudon'tfeedthis
microbiome,especiallyifyoudon'teatfiberinyourbody,thesebacteriastartstoeat
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Page 7 of 34
themucuslining.Whentheystarttoeatasinglecellofmucuslining,thatessentiallyis
protectingyourepithelialcellsandthey'reneeded.
Mostofyourlistenersmaynotknow70percentofourimmunesystemactuallyisinour
gut.Thereasonit'sinourgutiswemaynotrealizeit,weashumanbodyarelikea
donut.We'reholeyallthewayoutandourbodyisbuiltaroundtheseoddthings.
Dave:
We'reahollowtube.
Naveen:
We'reahollowtube.Thathollowtubeiswheremostoftheinputcomesfrom.Guess
what,theimmunesystemisrightthere.Ourmicrobesinourgutactuallytrainour
immunesystem,friendorfoe.Theyaretheonewhenyouinjectsomeparasites,guess
what,theyarethefirstlineofdefense.Theysay,"Uhoh,don'tliketheseguys.They're
goingtocometakeawaymyhome.I'mgoingtokillit."Alotoftheparasitesthat
actuallywetakeinourfoodiskilledbyourgutflorabeforeevenourimmunesystem
getstoit.
Dave:
There'saninterestingthingcalledfastinginducedadipocytefactor.Ifyoudon'teat
anything,yourlivermakesthisstuff,whichbasicallysaysburnfat,butifyoueat
somethingitsaysstorefat.Gutbacteria,theywanttomakesureyousurviveafamine,
sowhenyoufasttheyactuallyinfluencethelevelsoffastinginducedadipocytefactor,
sotheymakeyouburnextrafatwhenyoufastbecausetheydon'thaveanythingto
ferment.Thenwhenyoustorefat,theymakeyoustoreextrafattomakesuretheyhave
abackupsupply,whichisphenomenal.Yougetthesethingsamplifyingyourown
signals,andinthatcaseyoucanarguemyliverdidthatalready.Idon'twanttheseguys
hackingthesystem.Ontheotherhand,maybeit'sgoodforme,andthosesamethings
alsomakehealthybacteria,sothesymbiosisisverycomplex.
Naveen:
Thesymbiosisisextremelycomplex.AlsoIthinkwe'reconstantlylearningaboutour
humanbody.Justlastweek...imaginewehumanshaveanalyzedabody.Welookedat
adeadbody.Wehavecutitopenmultipletimes,andguesswhat.We'restillfinding
newthings.Lastweekalonewefoundaneworgan.
Dave:
Imissedthatone.
Naveen:
Yeah.Essentiallytheliningthatconnectsallthe[inaudible00:23:24]allthroughout
connectstoourbody,theythoughttherewasseparatetissue,itturnsoutit'saone
singletissue,it'saneworganthatwedefine.
Dave:
Wow.
Naveen:
imagine,weusedtothinkthatallofourimmunesystemactuallystoppedattheneck.
Theyfoundtheimmunesystemisallthewaytothebrain,soguesswhat'shappening.
Theyfoundtheimmunesystemwashidinginourbrainthatwedidnotknow.Now
whenwetalkabouthavingAlzheimer's,suddenlywerealizeit'sactuallytheinfection
andourimmunesystemistheonethatcornerstheinflammation,triestocapturethis
infection,andthat'swhatcausesthethings.What'shappeningisthatwhenyour
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microbiomeisimbalanced,itcleanstheimmunesystemwrong.Theimmunesystem
startstogetactive,andthatactiveimmunesystemistheonethatcausesautoimmune
diseases,orwhenyouhavealeakygutyoustarttogetallkindsoffoodallergies.
Whenyourimmunesystemistooactive,itstartstoeatourcells,whichisautoimmune
thing,butsometimesasyoustarttoage,ourbloodbrainbarrieractuallygetsweakand
that'showyoustarttogetinfectioninthebrainandtheimmunesysteminthebrain
startstoinflameanditstartstokilltheneurons.Someofthetoxinremoverthingsare
notworking.Ithinkyouhavebeenreallygoodaboutimprovingthebrainthing.Imagine
you'reabletotakeablinkinglightat40yardsandsuddenlyitjuststartstomeltaway
thebetaamyloid.YouhavebeenapioneerDaveintermsofunderstandinghowthe
humanbrainworks,andgettingpeopletofeelsogoodaboutthemselvessimplyby
usingyourdeviceasoptical.It'snotlikeyou'regoingoutanddrillingaholeinthebrain.
Simplythroughdietandsimplythroughlighttobeabletoactivatethebrainfunctions
sonotonlyyoufeelgood,youactuallyarebetter.
Dave:
It'sthatdifferencewhereIusedtojustthinkIwasweak.I'msittinghere,Imade$6
million,I'm26.WellstillwhenIwas28.I'msittingthere,I'mlike,"I'msotired,Ican't
focusandit'sbecauseI'mnottryinghardenough.It'sbecauseI'mnotstrongenough,
I'mnotsmartenough.I'mnotfastenough."Allthatwascompletelywrong.Itwas
becausetherewasabiologicalhardwareproblem.Everyonelistening,whenitstops
beingamoralfailingandjustbecomesaconfigurationissue,it'ssomucheasierthat
way.
Naveen:
Exactly.Thenwecantuneit,becausethepointiswestarttoblamethenature.It'smy
genes.Uh-uh.
Dave:
Screwyourgenes.
Naveen:
It'snotyourgenes,it'syourdiet.Itisthenutritionthat'slacking.Ifyoucancontroland
imagineyourdietandnutritionisthebestblockbusterdrugyou'regoingtoeverhave.
Dave:
Thathasbeenmyexperience.Hereweare.We'retwoInternetgeeksfrom[inaudible
00:26:17],successfulentrepreneurandwe'retalkingaboutthisstuff.Iimaginepeople
listening,wehavealotoffunctionalmedicine,antiagingpeopleandalotofjust
interestedpeoplecommutingorworkingrightnow.They'lllistentothisgoing,"Allright,
thisguymusthaveanewpooptest,becausehe'stalkingaboutmicrobiome."That'snot
whatyou'redoingatall.
Naveen:
Wedoactuallyhave,notthemicrobiometest,butwedoapooptest.
Dave:
Ohyoudo?Okay.
Naveen:
Thatisactuallyoneofthebestwaystounderstandwhatishappeninginsideyourbody,
thetwoplaces.Yoururinetestandyourpooptestissopowerfulbecausewejustdon't
lookat...Today'smicrobiomereallyhasbecomeabadthing,becausemostmicrobiome
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testingtodaywhenyougotothecompaniesthey'lldosomethingcalled16S,whichisa
genuslevelthing.Whichisreallyasuselessasnotdoingit.
Dave:
It'slikepercentageofmenandwomeninAsiansversusAfricanAmericansorwhatever.
Naveen:
That'sallitis.IfyoulookatAmerica,thewholeofUnitedStates,they'llsaywellthere
aresomeblacksandtherearesomewhitesandtherearesomebrownpeople,andby
thewaysomeofthemarenamedSmithandsomeofthemnamedJonesandthat'sit.
That'swhatAmericaisallabout.WhenyouandIlookatthatthingandsay,"Wellgee,
theyaredoctors,they'reanengineer,they'replumbers.Theyallhaveverydifferent
function."Whatwedoiswelookateverythingthat'sgoingoninsideyourbodyby
analyzingyourpoop.Whathappensisnotonlyweseeeverysinglescreenofbacteria,
notjustaspecies.Everyscreen,welookateveryvirus,welookateveryphage.Welook
atthehumanRNA.
Dave:
Yousaidsomethingthere,phage.Mostlistenershaveneverheardofaphageeven
thoughyoushouldhave,excepttheydon'tteachyouthisinbiologyandintheWestwe
prettymuchignoredthem.TheRussianspioneeredphageresearch.Theyjustbasically
controlviruses,whichcancontrolproteins,ifIrememberright.
Naveen:
Basicallyphagesactuallyattackthebacteria.Whathappensifphagesdon'timpact
humansbuttheyimpactotherbacteria,sotheystarttoattackthegoodbacteria.
Phagesareimportant,tosomeextenttheycouldalsobeusedforattackingspecifictype
ofbacteria,soinsteadoftakingantibioticsyoushouldbetakingphagesforspecific
bacteria.
Dave:
Phagesliveinthesoil,unlessyouspraythesoilwithRound-Upandyousterilizeit,which
we'vegottostopdoingthatbecausetheseareactuallymoreimportantthanantibiotics
incontrollingunhealthybacteria.
Naveen:
Absolutelycorrect.Ithinkalotofcounterintuitivething.Imaginewhythefirstworldor
thedevelopingcountrieshassomanyofthesediseases.Numberone,thechildrenare
borntocaesareansection.Bad,bad,bad,bad,bad.
Dave:
Thankyouforsayingthat.TheU.S.istheleaderinceasareansection.
Naveen:
Interestingthingisthenatureworksextremelywell,duringlaboryourgutfloraactually
startstomovetowardthevaginalcanal.Whenthebaby'sbornitactuallyflowsandgets
thefirstintroductionofthemicrobiomeinthebody.Thefirstsevendays,withthe
breastfedmilk,itisnottofeedthebaby.Itissimplytofeedthemicrobiomesothey
starttogrowandtheystarttodigestthefoodbecausealotofthedigestionhappens
throughthesemicrobiome.
Dave:
Ihaveanalternatetheoryhere.
Naveen:
Tellme.
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Dave:
Anyparentofasmallchildknowsthathalfthesmallchild'scaloriesareabsorbedright
throughtheirface,whichiswhytheysmearthefoodallovertheirface.Isthattrue?
Naveen:
I'veneverheardofthat.
Dave:
I'mjustkidding.We'rebothparents,sowe'vebothseenit.Theremustbeareasonthey
dothat.
Naveen:
Thesecondthingreallyhappensisweactuallydon'tallowourchildrentoplayinthedirt
anymore.Firstofall,wehavetostopputtingalltheRound-Upandallthetoxinandall
thefertilizersandallthecrapintothething,butgoodoldfarmsoilisabsolutely
wonderfulbecausethat'showthehumansbecameonewithnature.Aswestarttolive
inurbanareas,weinfactarenotbeingexposedtoallthethingsthatusedtobe
exposedtowhenwewerelivingonthefarm.Peoplearenowsellingthefarmair,
becauseyoureallyneedallthethingsthatyouusedtogetfromallthefarms,because
youwanttogetallthosemicrobessoyoudon'tgetallergicreactionsoyourimmune
systemistrainedproperly.
Dave:
Peoplewonder,"Dave,whydidyoumoveawayfromSiliconValley?"WellIhavetwo
youngkidsandweliveonanoperatingorganicfarmandtheygooutinthedirtevery
singleday,andIdidthatformykids.
Naveen:
Letthemeatthedirt.
Dave:
Theydo.
Naveen:
It'sareallygoodthing.Don'twashyourhandwithPurellallthetimebecauseyou're
essentiallymakingthesebacteriaresistant.Ithinkthatsomeofthethingsthathappenis
wehavebecometoohygienic.Ireallythinkashumanswe'resupposedtolivewith
natureandalittlebitofthethingthatwe'vebecomepartofitiswhattrainsour
immunesystem.Ithinkweshouldtalkaboutsomeofthecoolstuffaboutgoingtothe
moonnext.
Dave:
Yeah,okay,let'sgettothemoonstuff,butIhaveacouplemorequestionsforyou,the
newworkyou'redoingaroundRNAanalysis.
Naveen:
Gutinflammation.
Dave:
You'redoinggutinflammationbutyou'redoingapooptestandyou'redoingablood
test.You'relookingatthebloodbiome.Thetwothingshavegotmereallyexcited
about,let'sactuallyjustdoaninterviewinsteadofjustchatting.Oneofthemisthat
whenyou'relookingatpoop,insteadofjustbacteria,you'relookingatveryspecific
typesbutyou'realsolookingatphages,virusesandveryimportantlyyou'relookingat
thefungalbiome,whichnoonedoes,andit'satleastascomplexasthebacteria.
Naveen:
Regardless,we'relookingatparasites.We'relookingathumanRNAthatshowsyouhow
yourgutinflammationisdoing,andwe'relookingatthemetabolitesthatthemicrobes
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areproducing,andthebloodvolumewhichnobodyhaseverdone.Onceyou'reableto
dothat,sinceweareabletolookatalltheRNAs,we'relookingatthemitochondrial
function.We'reabletoseethebacteria,phagesandvirusesinthebloodthatnoonehas
everlookedat.ThatIthinkisgoingtobesophenomenalthatwe'llbeabletofindthe
predictivebiomarkersofthediseasessoweareabletocurethethingsbeforeyoueven
seethesymptomsofit.
Dave:
That'showit'ssupposedtobe.Everyonelisteningbynow,ifthey'veheardmorethan
threeshowsandtheyknowthatmitochondrialareattheverycoreofperformingwell.
Ifyoucan'tmakeenoughelectricityinyourbody,itdoesn'tmatterhowhardyouwant
todosomething,youwon'tdoit.Howcantheygetaccesstoamitochondrialtest?By
theway,Idon'thavearecommendedoneyet.
Naveen:
EveryoneofyourlistenersshouldreallysignupforViomeservicesandforthelisteners
ofBulletproofwe'regoingtoactuallyhaveaspecialquoteforthemtoputthemahead
ofthequeue,becauseasopposedtowaitingfortensofthousandsofpeoplewho
alreadysignedup,everyBulletprooflistenerisgoingtogetaheadofthequeueand
they'regoingtobethefirstonetobeabletogettheservice.
Dave:
That'sawesome.Wedidn'tevenplanthat.Wetalkedaboutdoingsomesortofthing.
Here'sthedeal.Youknowhowimportantallofthebiomestuffis.You'veheardmany
differentpodcastswherewe'vetalkedwithJeffBlandandMarkHymanandallthese
variousdifferentpeople,butIcouldn'tfindawaytogetareliablemitochondrialtest
thatdidn'trequireanoxygenmaskandalaboratory,whichiswhatIdo.Beingableto
getthisforyouisreallypowerful.Youwanttobefirstinline.Thecodeisgoingtobe
Bulletproof.What'stheURL.
Naveen:
Bulletproof.GotoViome.com,VasinVictor,I-O-M-E,dotcom.
Dave:
V-I-O-M-Edotcom,andwhatisit?It's$100amonth?
Naveen:
$99amonth.
Dave:
Cool.Yougetfourtestsayear?
Naveen:
Fourtestsayear.
Dave:
Thesearefourpooptestsandfourbloodtests?
Naveen:
Yes.
Dave:
Okay,cool.Ifyoucomparethattowhatyouwouldspendfornormallabtestingthat
doesn'tgetyoumitochondrial,itdoesn'tgetyoualotofthatstuff...Doyoudo
telomeresatallinthat?
Naveen:
Telomeresistotallyseparate.
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Dave:
It'stotallyseparate,allright,cool.That'sstillnotasmallamountofmoney,butit'salso
averygooddealforfourlabteststotrackhowyou'redoingonaregularbasis.It's
actuallyoneofthemostaffordable,comprehensivethingslikethisI'vebeenableto
find,whichiswhyI'msuperstokedonit.Viome.com/Bulletproof,andjustsoyouguys
knowIgetasmallcommissiononthat,butatthesametime...
Naveen:
It'snotaboutthecommission.YouandIbothknowthis.
Dave:
No,it'snot.Iwanttobefulldisclosuresopeopleknow.Idon'twantanybodytofeellike
I'msneakingsomethingin.Also,weareworkingongettingBulletproofsupplementsso
thatwhenyouknowwhat'sgoingon,thatViomecanrecommendBulletproof
supplements.We'rejusthelpingeachotherouthere.Youguysshouldknowthat,but
moreimportantly,I'vebeenwantingthisstuffforlike10yearsandnowI'mgoingtoget
it.Ithinkalotofyouwillbeinterestedasastandardhealthtrackingservice,the$99a
monthisactuallyaveryreasonablethingandit'sactuallylessthanIgiveasabonus.It's
acompensation.AlloftheemployeesatBulletproofgetmorethan$100amonthof
discountedBulletproofstuffbecauseithelpsthembehealthier.
TheabilitytospendevenlessthanI'mdoingthatwayinordertogetthedatasoyou
knowyou'renotwastingmoneyonsupplements,that'shuge.
Naveen:
Thatisthebig.Plusmorethanjustnotwastingmoney,thereasonpeoplecontinuewith
somethingisbecausetheyknowit'sworking.Ifyoucan'tmeasureit,youcan'timprove
it.Thisshowsyouit'sworkingsoyoucontinuetakingitbecauseit'sworking.Idon't
know.
Dave:
Exactly.There'sallkindsofstuffoutthere.Learningtotrustthatsenseversusjustto
deceiveyourselfissotough.WetalkedaboutHackingtheHumanBody,andifyou're
listeningtothisgoing,"Whattheheck?"WeareInternetentrepreneurs,engineering
systemsthinkinggeeks.Neitheroneofushasamedicaldegree.
Naveen:
Nomedicaldegree.
Dave:
Unlicensedbiohacker.Thisgoesbacktowhatyousaidearlieraboutbeingan
entrepreneur.Yougoforsomethingyoudon'tknow,you'relike,"Wellwhyaren'tthey
doingthis?"
Naveen:
Exactlymypoint.
Dave:
SinceIdon'tknowthereasons,I'mjustgoingtodoit.Allpeoplecomeupthrougha
certainindustryseetheboxbecausethat'swhattheygrewin,butyoudidn'tseethis
box.
Naveen:
Actuallywesawthebox,butIappliedthethinkingofmyengineeringboxintothisbox
thatnobodyhaseverapplied.Iwantlistenerstoknowsomethingthat'sreally
interestinghereisthistechnologywasdevelopedatanationallab.Theyspentbillionsof
dollarsdevelopingthistechnologyandittookthem10years.Whatyou'rereallyseeing
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is10yearsofhardworkandbillionsofdollarsthatwerespentbythegovernmentto
reallyforanationalsecurity.Nowthatworkcanactuallybeappliedforthebenefitof
humanity.YouandIarebenefitingbecauseourtaxdollarsarealreadyspentonthis.
Dave:
That'ssomethingreallycool.There'salotofinnovationthatactuallyhasbeenfundedby
nationallaboratories.Bytheway,myfatherspenthisentirecareersincecollegeata
nationallaboratoryinAlbuquerque,theonethat'sInternalCombustionResearchSandia
NationalLaboratories.Igrewupinalaboratoryfamily,andmuchofthatresearch,they
discoveritandmaybeitendsupinthe...
Naveen:
Itsitsontheshelf.
Dave:
...spaceprogramorsomething,butit'snotused.Whatyoudidisyou'reanexecution
orientedentrepreneur,youhadabigproblem.Youhadyourownhealthissues,family
healthissuesjustlikeallhumanshave.You'relike,"Wait,I'manengineer.There'sall
thesesolutions.MaybeIjustneedtomatchthemup,"butthenyouexecuted.Before
wegetintothespacethough,howdidyouexecuteonmatching,howdidyouget
somethingfromthegovernmentandthenmakeaprivatecompanyoutofit?
Naveen:
ActuallyIstartedacompanycalledBlueDot.ThepurposeofBlueDotwasexactly,isto
lookatsomeofthespacetechnologiescomingoutofNASAorsomeofthetechnologies
comingoutofnationallabsorattheDODLabs,andtryingtoseehowyoucanapplythe
technologyforsomethingthatissomethingtotallydifferent.Forexample,wealsoare
workingwithNASAatJPLwheretheyhadatechnologythattheydesignedforHubble
Telescope.ThinkaboutwhatHubbleTelescopedoes.HubbleTelescopeisabletodetect
avery,veryfaintlightfromavery,verydistendedstar.Nowmostpeoplelookatastar
andsay,"Cool."
Istartlookingatthatandthing,"Wow."Imagine,Ithoughteverybacteriahasauto
fluorescence.YouputaUVlightonabacteria,ithasveryfaintautofluorescence.Light
bulb.Isaid,"Ahha.CanwetakethisUVsenseandputasmallcameraandyouspit
whenyou'resick,andyouseefluorescence."Yousay,"Holyshit,Ineedtotake
antibiotics.Igotabacteriainfection."
Dave:
That'ssocool.
Naveen:
Nowyouhaveasimpletestforvirus,viral[inaudible00:38:52]bacteriainfectionfor
somethingthatwasdonewaybackwhenforHubbleTelescope.Nowweareableto
applythatforsomethingthatistotallydifferentandwillchangethetrajectoryofhow
humanitylivesbyjustsimpleadapting.That'swhatyouandIdobest.
Dave:
Whenyoucrossover,stuffhappens.Ihadcoffeeawhilebackwithaguywhoholdsthe
firstpatenteverfor[inaudible00:39:17]to11B.ThisisinMountainView,California.I
said,"Whatareyouworkingon?"Hesaid,"WellIknowyou'redoingthisantiagingstuff
Dave."Hesaid,"Itookthereallysensitivesignaldetectorsweusetotroubleshootour
radiosandIpointedthematmyownbody,andohmygod,there'sahugesignalcoming
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offofmybody,"andheshowedmeallthedata.It'slike,"Thisissocool."He'snota
doctor,hehasnoidea,buthe'slike,"I'mprettysureIcangetdiagnosticcriteria."
What'shappeningisthefieldsofengineeringandbiologyarebecomingbioengineering,
andbioengineeringisanewspecialty.There'safewpeopleeducatedinit,butmostof
thethem...
Naveen:
Bioinformatics.
Dave:
That'sawholething.Mostofthetimeyou'regettingengineerswhoarecomingintobio,
youdon'tgetalotofdoctorsthatbecomeengineers,butitdoeshappen.There's
engineerswhodon'tbecomedoctorsbutthey'relike,"I'mtiredofmykneeshurting,so
I'mgoingtodosomethingwacky,"butitworks.
Naveen:
Theinterestingthingisactuallythedoctorsbecomingengineersarevery,verydifferent
becausetheycomefromverydifferentmindset.Engineersareactuallyreallycoolkind
ofpeople.Theysimplylookatthedata.Tothem,itdoesn'tmatterwhetherdataisa
sensordata,it'scomingfrombiochemistrydata,it'scomingfromblood,it'scoming
frompoop.Theydon'tcare.Here'sthedataandIcanapplythesoftwareandthepatter,
themachinelearning,andguesswhat,Ifindthepattern.That'swhatengineersdo.They
actuallyarejustdatajunky.Weallareinformationjunkyandbylookingatinformation,
weareabletodeducethingsthatpeoplewhoaretaughtamedicaldegreehavenever
evenlookedat.
Thebeautyofthethingisthehumanshaveneverhadthetechnologythatcouldlookat
thehumanbodyinsuchadetail.UntiltheHubbleTelescopewasinvented,wethought
therearefewstarshereandthere,andsuddenlywhenwepointedtheHubble
Telescopeinaonesquareinchofarea,wesawtherearebillionsandbillionsofgalaxies
inthatarea.ImagineturningthatHubbleTelescopeinsideyourbodyandsuddenlywe
say,"Ohmygod,lookattheclimateofourbody.Whathavewedonetoourselves?"
Dave:
Exactly.
Naveen:
Thattechnologyhasgottensoaffordable,justlikelandingonthemoon.Thefirsttime
welandedonthemoonitcostus$25billion.Themissionthatwehadthat'sgoingout
thisyearisgoingtobeunder$10million.
Dave:
Thisunmanned,right?Justrobots?
Naveen:
Unmannedmission.
Dave:
Whydoyouneedpeopleonthere?
Naveen:
Whydoweneedpeoplethere?Becauseyoucanactuallygeteverythingthen
robotically.Asyoumentioned,I'mgoingtogobackandstepbackforasecond.
Dave:
Ilovethemoonstuff.Bytheway,Ihaveananalysisstickonmylaptop.I'mahugefan.
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Naveen:
Maybeweshouldmeetupseparately,anotherpart[inaudible00:41:49].
Dave:
Wecould.I'dbeupforthat.Guys,leaveussomecomments.We'lltalkaboutsome
moonstuffhere,butifyouwanttohearalotmoreaboutcreatingacompanythatcan
gotothemoonandallthat,wecandoawholeotherepisodeonthat.It'sabitdifferent
thanthehumanperformancething,butaslongaswetieitbacktotheentrepreneurial,
thecognitiveandemotionalsideofthings.
Naveen:
Here'saveryinterestingthingistome,thegoingtothemoonisnotaboutjustgoingto
themoon.Itissimplyaboutaproofandtheshowcaseofwhatentrepreneursare
capableofdoing.Whenwelandonthemoon,Iwanteveryentrepreneurtobeableto
sayiftheycanlandonthemoon,whatismymoonshot?Mymoonshouldcouldbecure
thecancer,curetheAlzheimer's,understandmyhumanbodyandmakeitcompletely
highperformance.Whateveryourmoonshotis,nowyouhavethetechnologyatyour
disposaltosolveit.Tome,weweretalkingaboutasanentrepreneurthinking,they're
reallysimple.Dreamsobigthatpeoplethinkyou'reabsolutelycrazy.Whenpeopletell
youwhatisthatyou'redoingandyoutellthemwhatyou'redoing,andiftheydon't
thinkit'scrazyyou'renotthinkingbigenough.
Thinkbigandneverbeafraidtofail.Asanentrepreneur,youonlyfailwhenyougiveup.
Everythingelseisjustapivot.Thatmeansifthethingsarenotworking,youchange,you
adaptandyoupivot,andthenuntilyougiveup,youhavenotfailed.Everyideathat
doesnotworkissimplyasteppingstonetoabiggersuccess.Nowtome,asyoubecome
successfulinlife,alwaysremember,stayhumble.Thesuresignofsuccessinlifeisthe
humility.Ifyouhavetotellsomeonehowrichyouare,thenyouhavenotachieved
success.SuccesscomeswhenyousayIamstilllearning.Thehumancuriosity,thebest
parentingadvice...we'rebothparents.Icangiveyouthebestparentingadvice,tome,
isreallyismakethechildrenintellectuallycurious.
Asaparent,I'veseentheparentswhosay,"WellIcanonlytakethehorsetothewater,
Ican'tmakehimdrink."Ikeepthinkingwhydoyouthinkyouneedtotakethemtothe
waterormakethemdrink.Whatifyoujustmakethemthirsty?
Dave:
Thereyougo.
Naveen:
Ifyoumakethemthirsty,whatwillhappen?Theywillfindtheirownwaterandtheywill
gooutanddrink.Ourjobasparentistosimplymakethemthirsty.Asanentrepreneur,
ourjobisnottogetboggledbywhatitis,butfocusonwhatitcanbe.Whenpeopletalk
aboutistheglasshalfemptyoristheglasshalffull,andmyquestionalwaysisdoIwant
tofilltheglass?IfIwanttofilltheglass,doesitreallymatterifit'shalfemptyorhalf
full?
Dave:
Ilikethat.That'sactuallyagreatanalogy.What'sinit?Thatwouldmatter.Howdidyour
parentsmakeyoucurious?You'vehadaninterestingpath.
Naveen:
Ithinkinterestinglywegrewupinvery,veryhumblebeginnings.WegrewupinIndia.
Thereweretimeswhenwedidn'thavefoodtoeat.Wemovedfromvillagetovillage.I
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cametotheUnitedStates35yearsagowith$5inmypocket.Godhasbeenamazingly
kindtous.Whatmyparentstaughtuswasit'saboutlearning.It'saboutbeingcurious,
aboutabletogooutanddothings.Eventhoughmymothercouldread,shesatme
downandshewouldpointandsay,"Tellmetheanswertothisproblem."Iwouldsay,
"Mom,theanswerisseven."Shewouldsay,"Don'tmakemelook.Doitagain."I'lldoit
again,andI'dsay,"Mom,Ithinktheanswerisseven."Shesaid,"Good,nowgotothe
nextone."
Thepointwasshecared.Shewantedtoreallyshowthattheonlywaytogetoutofthe
povertyistoreallylearn,tobecurious.ShewascompletelyokaywhenIwouldtake
anythingthatIfoundinthehouseandopenitup.Mydadwouldgetsoangry,"Lookat
whatyoursondidnow.Hejustbrokethisthing."Shewouldsay,"Hewillfixit.Don't
worryaboutit."IwassocuriousthatIwaswillingtogooutandtrythings,andmymom
encouragedit.Shesaid,"It'sokayifwecan'tfixit.Youknowwhat,we'llputitback,and
ifyoucan'tputitback,sobeit."Thepointwasthatcuriosityiswhatallowedmetobe
whoIamtoday,thatIdon'treallycarewhattheproblemisbecauseIknowIcanopenit
upandtakecomplexproblem,breakitdownintosimpler,simpler,simplerproblem,it's
smallmodulesthatyoucanexecuteandyoustartdoingsmall,smallslices.Nextthing
youknow,you'reboilingtheocean.
Dave:
Theideaofbreakingdownintoasmallproblem,thattiesintowhatClaytonChristensen,
theguywhocoinedthetermdisruptiveinnovation.YouprobablymetClayton.
Naveen:
OfcourseI'vemetClayton.
Dave:
I'veworkedwithhisconsultingfirm,butI'veneveractuallyinteractedwithhimlikeona
phonecall.
Naveen:
He'sawonderfulhumanbeing.Asahumanbeing,Ihavemorerespectforhimthan
mostoftheprofessorsIhaveevermet.
Dave:
Hesavedmycareeralot,andprobablydoesn'tknowit.
Naveen:
Haveyoureadhisbook?
Dave:
Yeah.InfactDisruptiveTechnologywas...
Naveen:
No,notthatone.HowWillYouMeasureYourLife?
Dave:
Thatoneisthelatestone.
Naveen:
Ittouchedmyheart.
Dave:
It'saprofoundbookfromsomeonewho'sspenthiswholetimelookingatthis.What
you'resayingmatcheswhatClaytondid.Claytonanalyzedhowdothesesmallannoying
startupssuddenlytopplebigindustries?Hisseminalworkwasontheharddriveindustry
whereyouhavethesecompaniesdoingseveralbillionayearinrevenue,andthentwo
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yearslaterthesesmallwebstartupsarebuyingthembecauseofthiscrazydisruptive
thingthat'shappening.Whatyou'resayingisyoustartsmall,yousolveoneproblem,
andit'snotbigenoughtobeathreat.Thenallofasudden,itjustgrowsandgrows.By
thetimethebigguysnotice,it'stoolate.Theytryandbuyyouandessentiallythe
industry'sbroken.ThetelecomsgotbrokenbytheInternetthisway.Frankly,lostcost
serversbrokemainframesthisway.We'vejustbeendoingthisforever.
Naveen:
Actuallyit'sbetternow.
Dave:
ohit'smuchbetter.
Naveen:
What'sreallyhappeningiswiththeconvergenceofexponentialtechnologies,itdoesn't
matterwhatlifecycleyou'reon.Everyfiveto10years,whateverisbeingdoneis
becomingobsolete.YouandIandeveryonelisteningtoit,we'relivinginthemost
amazingtimeinthehumanhistory.Next10yearsthere'sgoingtobemorechanges
thanhappenedinhumanhistory.
Dave:
Amen.Everythingischangingrapidly.
Naveen:
Hereisthething.Inthenext10to15years,halfofthefortune500companieswillgo
bankrupt.Here'sthebeautyofit:whentheoldguarddies,whathappens?YouandIand
everyonehasanopportunitynowtobethenewking.Everytechnologythatexiststoday
willbeobsoleteinfiveto10years.Whatthatmeansisyoucanbetheguywhodisrupts
thecurrentindustry.Itdoesn'tmatterwhatitis.Letmegiveyouacoupleofgood
exampleshereforyourlistenershere.It'snotaboutthetechnologythatyoulookat
whatit'sdoing.It'sthesecondaryandtertiaryinbackofthetechnologythatmost
entrepreneursmissouton,butthat'swhereactuallytheopportunitiesare.
Forexample,everyoneknowsaboutaself-drivingcar.Youwillsay,"Wellthat'sgoingto
haveamassiveimpactontheautomobileindustrybecauseyounolongerneedtoown
thecar.Youcanbeondemand,andbytheway,ifI'mgoingoutonadateIcanordera
Ferrari.IfI'mgoingoutlongdistance,IcanorderaPrius.Idon'tneedtoownthecar
anymore."Nowimagineifyoueverstartdrivingcar,whathappenstotheparkinglots?
Youdon'tneedtheparkinglots.Couldtheybecometheaffordablehousingnow?What
happenstoalltheparkinglots?Couldtheybecometheparks?Couldtheybecomethe
housing?
Secondly,ifthesecarsarecommunicatingwitheachother,wedon'tneedtobuildas
manyroads.ThatmeanswhathappenstotheCaterpillarsoftheworld?Ifthesecarsare
notgoingintoanaccident,whathappenstotheautomobileinsurance?Whathappens
tothelifeinsurance?Morethanthat,whathappenstotherealestatepricesinthe
urbanareasbecausenowyoucanliveinthesuburbsandyourcarbecomesyouroffice.
Holographicimages,youaresittingthere.Itdoesn'tmatterwhereyouare,your
location'sshiftednow.Therealestateisimpacted,theinsuranceisimpacted.The
insurancecompaniesareimpacted,andsuddenlyyouhaveabundanceofhousing.
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Dave:
It'shappening,forsure.IliveonVancouverIslandinthesunniestpartofCanada,andin
thelastfiveyearstheshift,there'stonsofsuccessfulentrepreneursmovingthere
becausetheywantcleanairandbecauseitdoesn'treallymatterwhereyou'reliving.
Naveen:
Itdoesn'tmatterwhereyouliveanymore.Theotherthingisunderstandingwhenyou're
lookingatsolvingaproblem,areyousolvingthesymptomoftheproblem?Areyou
actuallysolvingtherealproblem?Letmegiveyouanexample.Let'sassumeyou'rean
entrepreneurandyousay,"Look,Iwanttosolvethefreshwaterproblembecause
peopledon'thaveenoughfreshwater."Yougooutandstarttobuilda[inaudible
00:50:55]technologyandeverythingelse.Untilyourealizewhydowehaveashortage
offreshwaterandyourealizemajorityofthefreshwaterisusedforagriculture,andit's
ahha.WhatifIcanuseaquaponicsoraeroponicsandsuddenlyIdon'tneedthiswater.
ThatmeansnowIcansolvethefreshwaterproblemsimplyagricultureproblem.
Thenwhileyouarethinking,"Ohmygod,Igotit,"someotherentrepreneurcomes
alongandsays,"Waitasec,themajorityoftheagricultureisusedforcattle.AllIhaveto
doisinsteadofraisingthecattle,whatifI'mabletotakeastemcellofacowandcreate
thebiofactoriesandonlycreatemuscletissuethanbeef."I'mnotthemoraljusttotell
peopletheyshouldn'teatbeef,butIdon'tneedtohaveacattletopeelofthisliving
animal.Icanhavethebeefsimplygrowupinabiofactory.
Dave:
Thatwasinterestingbecauseweweretalkingaboutthehumanbody,it'sthiscomplex
systemandit'sabouttheenvironmentthey'rein.Idonotseeafuturewherewecan
growlaboratorymeatwithanenvironmentthatcreatestheequivalentofwhatcomes
outofanimalsbecausethey'llendupmakingitliketofurky.I'malittleconcernedabout
thatonetobehonest,butIlikethevisionthatsaysifwecanmakeanequivalenthealth
productwithallofthesmall[crosstalk00:52:20].
Naveen:
Bytheway,noantibiotics.What'shappeningistoliveandyoueatbeef,you'renot
eatingbeef.Whatyou'reeatingissomuchofantibioticsthathasbeenputintothecow.
Dave:
Ieatthecowsthateatthegrassthatgrowinthefrontquarterofmyfarms.I'mgetting
realcow,butoneinahundredpeopleordergrassfedmeatthatway.
Naveen:
Very,veryfewpeoplegetthat.MypointiswhatIwasstartingtosaywasthatsuddenly
thefreshwaterproblemactuallybecomesasyntheticbiologicproblem,andthat'sthe
pointIwastryingtomake.
Dave:
Igotit.
Naveen:
Itisreallyunderstandingtherootcause.Yes,bytheway,ifyoucareaboutthe
environment,thebiggestdamagetotheenvironmentisdonebythecows.Thecattle.
Dave:
Youdon'tthinkit'sthepigfarms?I'velookedintothisalot.
Naveen:
Thecattleandthepigs.
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Dave:
Thepigsarealotworse.
Naveen:
Thepigsarealotworse,butmypointis...
Dave:
They'redelicious.
Naveen:
Cattleandthepigs,buthere'sthebestpart.Ifyoucareabouttheenvironment,allyou
havetodoiseatlessofthatoneday.Don'teatmeatoneday,youwilldomoreforthe
environmentthandrivingaTesla.
Dave:
Iwouldagreewithyouifyou'retalkingaboutindustrialmeat,butifyoucareaboutsoil
integrity,youwouldwanttoeatgrassfedcowssothey'llpooponthesoiltomake
healthymaterialinthesoil.
Naveen:
Actuallyifyoureallycareabouttheenvironment,thenextbigthingisgoingtobethe
microbiomeofthesoil.
Dave:
That'sexactlyright.
Naveen:
Ifyou'reabletoadjustthesoilmicrobiome,youcanincreasetheyieldofacrop100
percentto500percent.Suddenlyyou'reabletofeednotjustsevenbillionpeoplebut
30billionpeoplebecauseyou'veadjustedtheyieldofthecropbysimplychangingthe
microbiomeofthesoil.
Dave:
That'sreal.Thatstuffhappens,andyoudon'thavetomakeGMOcrops,youdon'thave
to[crosstalk00:54:07]poison.
Naveen:
No,notatall.
Dave:
There'ssomuchsimplersolutions.
Naveen:
Somuchsimplerissimplyunderstandtheecosystemofhowthisplantgrows.
Dave:
Ihaveaquestion,andyoumayhaveevenseendealslikethis.Ihaven'tcomeacross
any.Iwanttostopsprayingantibioticsonoursoilbecauselivingsoilmakeslivingbiome
andyourgutmakeslivinghumans.Wearebasedonsoil.Itseemslikewithrobotic
technologywehavetoday,youcanhavefreeroamingrobotswithvisualrecognition
stuffthataresolarpowered.Everytimetheyseeaweedgrowing,theyjusttakeametal
rodandstickintothesoilwheretheweedis.Whydoyouneedtospraypoisononsoil
tostopweeds?
Naveen:
Therearemany,manywaysofkillingthethingsthatwedon'twant,especiallythe
weeds.Youcouldlasertodeath.
Dave:
I'mjustlookingatpower.Youcanlaserthem,there'sallsortsofthings,butthenumber
onethingyoudon'thavetodoispourtoxicstuffonthem.
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Naveen:
Whyisthat?Becauseitgoesbackintoyourbody.
Dave:
Haveyoufundedsomethinglikethat?Thisissuchanobviousproblem.Peoplelistening,
dothis.
Naveen:
Thereyougo.Mypointiswheneveryonecomesacrossaproblem,thequestion
shouldn'tbewhydidn'tsomeonedosomethingaboutit,thequestionshouldbewhat
canIdoaboutit?Anyonewho'slistening,youjustgotanideafromDavehere.
Dave:
Thereyougo.
Naveen:
Gooutandsolvetheproblemfortheweedwithoutputtinganytoxininthesoil.
Dave:
Giveusrobots,eventopickoffinsects.It'snotthathard.It'swellwithinourcapability.
I'mserious,ifyouactuallydothatIwilltalkaboutwhatyou'redoing.I'llgiveyoualeg
up.I'llintroduceyoutoinvestors,whateverittakesbecauseIactuallywanttoseethat.
I'llputitinmygardentoo.Itwouldsavemetimeanditwouldbereallycool.NotthatI
actuallypickmyownweeds.I'lladmit,Ihaveagardenerhelpmewiththat.Wetalkeda
littlebit,yougotsometechnologyfromthegovernmentforViome,andyourmoonshot
stuffthough,youactuallydon'twantgovernmenttechnologybecausethestufftheyuse
isfromthe1980sbecauseit'sradiationhardenedandit'seasierjusttoput10android
phoneswithducttapeandsendthattospaceessentially,right?
Naveen:
Actuallyonamoon[inaudible00:56:06]whatwe'redoingiswe'retakingadvantageof
allofthelatestexponentialtechnologies.We'reableto3Dprinttherocket,we'reable
to3Dprintourlander.We'reabletousethehydrogenperoxideforourfuel.
Dave:
Whichisnontoxic.
Naveen:
Nontoxic,andbytheway,allyougetoutofitiswatervapor.Thereasonwe'reusing
hydrogenperoxide,becausewecanbuildthatonthemoonbecauseitrequiresH2O
too,whichiswateronthemoon.
Dave:
Oneofthethingsthatwasactuallyreallyjustahugemindshiftformewaswhenwe
firstmet,waswithPeterDiamandisandIwenttothe10thanniversaryoftheAnsariX
Prize.WewereattheSpaceXfabrication,andIwatchedthem3Dprintingarocket
engine.Itwasthecoolestthing.Wegottohavedinnerandtalk.IfIrememberright,we
weremakinglittlelunarlandingstationsoutoflegosasacontest.Justtoseethelevelof
thesetechnologiesthataremostlyhidden.Wehearaboutself-drivingcarsandallthat,
butevenifyou'rerelativelywellread,youhavenoideawhat'shappeningintermsof
thespeedofchangein50differentfields,andthat'swhat'scomingtogether.You're
sayingit'sgoingtocost$10milliontogetarobotonthemoon.Aretheygoingtobring
stuffbackfromthemoontoo?
Naveen:
Yes.Theinterestingthingismypredictioniswithin10yearswe'regoingtohaveaboots
onthemoonforunder$10,000.Imaginethatfor$10,000you'llbeabletogotothe
moonandcomeback,whichisreallyafirstclassticketcheaper...ImeanIthinkitcosts
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moretogoonafirstclassfromheretoDubai.Mypointisthecostsarecomingdownso
much,andthereasonisonceyoustarttogetareusablerocket,thecostreallybecomes
thecostofthefuel.Whatifyoudon'thavetotakeallthefuelfromearth,because93
percentoftheweightoftherocketisthefuel.Whatifwecanre-fuelontheway?We
actuallytakethewater,hydrogenandoxygen,rocketfuelandthefuelforhumanity,
andyouputthemintoearthorbit,youputtheminthemoonorbitsoyou'reabletorefuelyourselfasyou'regoingupinsteadofgettingallthefuelyourself.
Imagineonedayweareabletoliveonthemoon.IunderstandthatElonwantstogoto
Mars,butmoonisonlythreedaysaway.You'dratherbealunaticthreedaysawaythan
tobeamartiansixmonthsaway.
Dave:
Ihavebiologicalquestionsabouttheviabilityofbothofthose.
Naveen:
I'lltellyou[inaudible00:58:28].
Dave:
Ourmitochondriaarenotwelladaptedforthat.
Naveen:
Ahha.
Dave:
Wecanhackthat,butthehumanbody'sgoingtorequiresomeupgradesandsome
environmentalchangesinspacehabitats.
Naveen:
Itis.Thebeautyofthethingisgobacktothenature.Whatwefoundisthatnaturehas
alreadydonethis.Youfindthattherearebacteriawhicharenotonlysurviving,theyare
actuallythrivinginradioactivewasteinthehighradiation.[inaudible00:58:55]andthe
radioactivewaste,thebacteriahasevolvedtonotonlysurvivebutthriveusingthe
radiation.Nowimagineifyoucantakethegeneticmaterialfromthesebacteria,usethe
CRISPRtechnology,soCRISPR-Cas9orCRISPR-Cas3,CRISPR-Cas1orCFCF,C1C1,you're
abletonowmodifyallhumangenessothatwebecameradiationresistant,butbetter
thanthat,insteadofeatingpizza,we'llbesaying,"Baby,givemesomemoreradiation."
Dave:
Justhaveuraniumtabletsforbreakfastandyou'llbegoodtogo.Nowthat'sapretty
darntranshumanvision.Alotofpeoplelisteningtothis...
Naveen:
It'sgoingtohappen.
Dave:
Itis,unquestionably.Alotofpeoplelisteningtothisareprobablyalittlebitwiggedout
bythat.Atwhatpointdoyouseeadifferencebetweensaychangingourgenessothat
wecanliveinenvironmentswherewewanttoliveversusreplacingyourselfwithrobot
parts.
Naveen:
Todaywhenyougetyourhipreplacement,what'shappening?
Dave:
Yougotarobotpart.
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Naveen:
Right.Yougetyourkneereplacement,yougetyourheartreplacement.Nowtheonly
differentisinsteadofusingabigheart,you'reactuallymaybegrowingyourownheart.
Youcantakeyourskin,theskincanworkthemintoIPScellsandcanworkthemback
intothethings,andgrowa3Dprintedliverora3Dprintedkidneyora3Dprintedheart.
Nowimagineifyouhavethenanobotsinyourbodythatarenotonlycleaningupyour
bodyandrepairingtheDNA,repairingyourmitochondria,re-feedingyourmitochondria,
butsuddenlyarealsoprovidingoxygen.Theystayput,theydon'tdoanything.Let's
assumeyourheartstopsworking.Youdon'tdie.Yournanobotskickin.Theystartto
supplytheoxygen.Youpickupaphone,youcallyourdoctorandsay,"Heydoc,Ithink
myheartstopped.I'llbetherein30minutes.Canyouprintmeanewheart?I'llbe
there."
Dave:
Igotameetingatseven.
Naveen:
Youcallyourdoctor,yougodrivethecar.Hegivesyouanewheart,youputitbackin
andyou'regoodtogo.Thepointisitreallyisfreakytothinkaboutaugmentation,butit
happenedslowlyenoughthatpeopledon'trealizeit.Forexample,whenyouandIwere
youngwhatwedid,wemetsomeoneweremembertheirphonenumber.Nowallof
thathasbeenaugmentedwiththeiPhone.
Dave:
Wejustswiperight.
Naveen:
Nowit'saugmented.Nowourmemoryisnowoncellphones.Wedon'trememberthe
factsanymore,werememberthekeywordsfortheGoogletofindtheinformation.We
nowhaveourcellphonethat'saugmentingourbrain.Imagineslowly,slowlywe're
goingtostartdoingmoreandmoreaugmentation.Nowimagineifyoucanhaveabrain
computerinterfacewhereourbrainisconstantlyconnectedtotheInternetwhereall
theinformationisbeingfed.Ournanobotsinourbrainarecommunicating.Whoisthis
guy?Whatdidwediscusslasttime?Alltheinformationiscomingbacktoyou.Ithink
whathappensiswhenpeopleareworriedaboutself-drivingcars,theydon'trealizethat
planesareself-drivingforalongtime.Peoplegetsoworriedabout"I'mnotgoingto
havearobotinmyhouse."Yourdishwasherisarobot.
Thepointiswhenthingsstarttohappen,asPetersaysallthetime,thedaybeforethe
breakthroughisacrazyideaandthedayafterthebreakthroughis[inaudible01:02:27].
Dave:
Thenitbecomesself-obviousandallthepeoplewhosaidyouwerecrazysuddenlysaid
itwastheirideainthefirstplace?
Naveen:
Wellbeingrentedinthefirstplace.
Dave:
Yougottolovethat.Itiswhathappensonaveryregularbasis.Ibelieveallthethings
you'resayinghere,andwe'vetalkedaboutthisstuff.CertainlyI'minthatcamp.For
peoplewhoarelisteningandaresayingIdon'twanttolosemyhumanity,whatdoyou
havetosaytothat?
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Naveen:
Thepointiswhatisitaboutlosinghumanity?Let'stalkaboutwhatmakesushuman.If
wesay,"Idon'twanttoliveforever,"whatisthatIthatwetalkabout?IfIisyourbody,
yourbodyactuallyneverlivesforanydaybecauseyourbody'sconstantlychanging.
Rememberwhenyouwereatinybabyandnowyou'rethisadult?It'snotthesame
body.Ifyousayit'smyDNA,yourDNAarepropagatedthroughyourchildren.Atthe
endoftheday,irrespectiveofhowproudweareofourselves,we'resimplyacontainer.
Abeautifulcontainerforparasitesiswhoweare.WhatdifferentiatesbetweenDaveand
Naveenisourmemoriesandourexperiences.That'sreallywhatseparatesthetwoofus
isthattheexperiencewehavehad,thememorieswehavehad,allthatiswhowereally
are.
Ifwecantakethatmemoriesandexperiences,nowlet'sassumepeopleareabletodo
theheadtransplant.
Dave:
Right.Someone'sgoingtotryit.
Naveen:
Alreadythey'realreadydoingitinChina.They'reabletodoadogtransplant.
Dave:
Wow,theydidadogheadtransplant?
Naveen:
Dogheadtransplant.
Dave:
That'screepy.
Naveen:
Howcreepythisthingwillbe,youseesomeoneworkingoutandyousay,"Wow,that's
reallynicebody."That'screepy,right?Imagine,suddenlydoesthebodyreallyneedto
bebiochemicalbodyanymore.
Dave:
Thesearerealquestions.Thethingis,Iwastalkingaboutlivingto180plusasmy
personalgoal.
Naveen:
Whynot300?
Dave:
That'swhythere'saplusonthere.180istheworstcase.Ilookat...
Naveen:
Whatdoeslivingreallymean?
Dave:
That'saquestion.IfyouuploadyourselftotheInternet,areyoustillalive.Ithinkthere
willbedebatesaboutthatevenaftersomeonesucceedsinallegedlydoingthat.The
natureof[inaudible01:04:51]isdowehaveasoul,allthatkindofstuff.Idothink
thoughifyou,likeyousaid,youlookbacktowhatwedidwhenwewerekidsoryou
lookback30yearsago,howdidwedoresearch?Itwasonopticalmicroficheina
catalog.Youcouldspendtwoweekstofindonefact.ThenyoulaunchedInfoSpace,and
whatwouldhavetakenmeweeksatthelibrarytogetmydegreetookmelike20
minutesandthenIcouldgooutandhavepizza.Itchangedeverythingfromaresearch
perspective.
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Youlookatthecellphonesthatwehavenow,andyouriPhoneisthesumoftheworld's
computepowerin1960andallofthat.Iwouldjustencouragelisteners,youliveinthe
future,youseethefuture.Idothesamesortofthing.Noneofthisiscrazybecauseit's
allhappeningwithinourlifetimes.
Naveen:
Here'sthething.Notonlyinourlifetime,inthenext10yearsthere'snodoubtinmy
mindwe'llbeabletounderstandthehumanbiology,arecellsgoodenough.Aswesaid,
thesicknesswillbecomeoptional.Whatiftheaging,asweallknow,isoneother
disease?Whatiftheagingbecomesoptional?
Dave:
Itwill.Absolutely.
Naveen:
That'smypoint.Whydoweage?It'sreallysimple.It'sbecausesomehowourcellsare
nolongerabletokeepupbecauseeithernutrientsarelacking,ourDNArepairmachine
isbrokenorthemitochondriaisnotfunctioningproperly,butallthosethingswillget
fixedup.Whentheygetfixedup...Peoplesay,"Idon'twanttoliveupto100"because
intheirmind,100isafragileoldman.Canbarelywalk,inawalker.No.Thinkabout
whenyouwere30yearold,andifyoucouldactuallybelikethatforthenext300years,
whowouldn'twanttobe?
Dave:
Idon'tunderstandthat.I'vemetalotofpeoplewhosay,"IthinkI'dgetbored."Idon't
understandboredom.There'salwayssomethinginteresting.
Naveen:
Youknowwhat,ifyouareactuallybelieveyou'regoingtogetbored,youneedanew
life.
Dave:
Heyman.
Naveen:
MypointisIcan'tfindenoughhoursinaday.Ionlysleepfourhoursadaybecause
there'ssomuchtodo.Iwakeupinthemorning,IjumpoutofthebedbecauseI'm
thinking,"Ohmygod,there'ssomuchhappening."I'mjustsoexcitedaboutlife.Ilove
life.Ilovelearning.Whereistheboredom?Thedayyoustoplearningisthedayyou
actuallyhavedied.Mostpeoplewhoareboredareactuallyalreadydead,soIdon't
knowwhythey'rejustnot...
Dave:
Getoutoftheway.
Naveen:
They'rezombies.Theyliterallyarezombiesnow.Theminuteyourbrainisnolonger
growing,youhavebecomeaparasiteonsociety.
Dave:
Wow,thatispowerfulandIagree.Ifyou'renotheretodosomething,it'sokaytoget
outoftheway.Yousaidsomethingthat'sinterestingthere.Iwentthroughaperiod
whenIwasanewdad,IwasworkingasaVPatabigtechcompany,headofGlobal
Evangelismsoflyingaroundalot,andIstartedBulletproof.I'msleepingfivehoursmax
anight,IdiditfortwoyearsandoftenI'ddowasthreeorfourhoursnight.Ilostweight.
AllthebiomarkersIhadwerefine.Idon'tthinkitwasnecessarilygoodforme.Itmight
haveshortenedsometelomeresandIsleepactuallysixhours,notsixhours,it'ssix
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hoursandfourminutesforthelastthreeandahalfyearsaccordingtomydatastuff.
LastnightwasfourandahalfandI'mfinetoday.Peoplecan'tseeus.
You'regettingaboutfourhoursanight,butyou'realsorunningnowahealthcompany,
andthere'sprettygooddatayoushouldbegettingsixhours.Whatdoyousaytothat?
Naveen:
Ithinktheanswerabsolutelytrue.There'snodoubtinmymindIprobablyneedanother
twohours.Itwillprobablywillhappen,butI'mjustsoexcited.I'msoexcitedaboutwhat
I'mdoing.Ithinktosomeextentwhenyougettoourage...
Dave:
Howoldareyou?
Naveen:
57.
Dave:
Okay,cool.God,youdon'tlook57.
Naveen:
Ohthanks.MypointiseverydayIthink,"Ohmygod,there'ssomuchtobedone."Ijust
getsoexcitedaboutdoingthings,butI'mgoingtomakeitapointtoactuallystart
gettingadditionaltwohours,andIdowanttogettoasixhourtimebecauseIknowit's
goodforme.
Dave:
Doyoumonitoryourhumangrowthhormone,yourtestosterone,allyourbiomarkers?
Naveen:
Inallhonesty,Idon'tbutIshould.
Dave:
ImonitormyRNAexpressiontoseeifmymitochondriawork,butIdon'tlookatmy
humangrowthhormone.That'scool.That'sfunny.
Naveen:
It'soneofthosethings,it'slikeIfeelgood.
Dave:
Also,assomeonewho'sworkedwithalotofpeopleincludingpeoplewithchronic
fatigueandpeoplewhodon't,youhavetheeyesandtheskinofsomeoneyoungerthan
youare.Thoseareveryobviousgiveawaythings.Yourenergylevelis,Idon'tknow,
you'reprobablynotonAdderall,buteverytimeI'veevertalkedwithyou,I'veever
interactedwithyou,you'realwaysjustpassionateandfullofenergy,whichareprobably
betterindicatorsthanalabvalue.Youcantell.You'renotsubstantiallyoverweightor
underweightandallthat.Ibelieveinveryheavilytrackingwhatyou'rehacking.Youcan
spendallyourtimetrackingeveryfiveminuteseverything,thatyou'renevergoingto
change.Whocares?That'snotusefuldata.
Naveen:
Ithinkthat'swhathappens.Peoplegetsocaughtupinthedatathattheyfirstofall
can'tchange.Forexample,lookingataDNA.WhybotherlookingatDNA?Youcan't
changeitanyway.
Dave:
Orforthatmatter,let'slookatcholesterolbecauseit'seasytomeasureeventhoughit's
aterribleindicatorofhealth.
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Naveen:
Cholesterolisgoodforyou.
Dave:
Oops.
Naveen:
Natureisnotthatstupid.Toomuchofeverythingisbad,butcholesterolinitselfisnota
badthing.Likefat.Oneofthethingsthatpeoplejustdon'trealize,fatisnottheenemy.
Yourenemyistheglucose,yourenemyisthesugar.
Dave:
Orjustdamagedfat.Transfatsandthingslikethat.It'soneofthosethingswhereIthink
guyslikeMarkHymanandDavidLudwig,whoI'vebecomefriendswith,Dr.Perlmutter,
theycallitthefatsoutofthebaginsteadofthecat'soutofthebag.Ithinkit's
becomingincreasinglyhardforthe1970sphysicianswho'vebeenrecommendingthese
lowfatdietsforalongtime.Peoplejustdon'tlistenbecauseit'snotcredibleanymore.
Naveen:
Firstofall,ithasneverbeencredible.Second,personallyIbelieverthere'snoonedietis
goodforeveryone.Evenashumans,wehave90percentcommonDNAbetweenusand
aplant.
Dave:
Andpoliticiansareactually98percent.
Naveen:
They'reprobably98percentwiththeparasites.Mypointiswhatmakesusreally
differentisourmicrobiome.Ifourmicrobiomebetweentwoindividuals,lessthan10
percentofourmicrobiomewehaveincommoneventhough99percentofourDNAis
thesame.Mypointisthesamedietthatisgoodforyoumaynotbegoodforme.That's
reallywhatIbelievethenextbigplanisgoingtobethedietthat'sbasedonthetest.
Thatmeanspersonalizeddietbasedonyourmicrobiome,basedonyourmetabolome.
You'rereallylookingatyourmetabolitesandadjustingyournutrientsanddietbasedon
thosetwothings,yourmetabolomeandmicrobiomeandgutinflammation.Reallythe
keytointermsofhowyou'regoingtoadjustyourdiet,andnotwodietsaregoingtobe
alike.
Dave:
Whataboutfecaltransplants?I'velookedatthat.TheFDAsomehowthinksthatpoopis
adrugnow,whichkindofmakesmelaugh.
Naveen:
Ihatetosayit,butIreallythinkthebestwaytoactuallyrepopulateandre-wireyour
microbiomeisreallyafecalmattertransplant.FMTisthebestwaytodothat,probiotic.
Whenyoutakeprobiotic,it'stransient.Ittunestheimmunesystembutitdoesnotstay
there.Youhavetoconstantlykeeptakingitbecauseyoudotraintheimmunesystem,
butmostofthemactuallydieinyourstomachanyway.
Dave:
Couldn'tyoujustputtheprobioticsintheotherend?
Naveen:
Theanswerwouldbe[inaudible01:12:59].Basicallyyourpoopisnothingbutessentially
amicrobiomere-transplant.
Dave:
Yeah,it'shumancompost.
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Naveen:
Ireallythinktosomeextentthatisthekey.Ithinkwhatalotoftheresearchisshowing
isthatthey'reabletofindtheobesity.Autoimmunediseases,allthosethings,youtakea
fatmiceandtakeapoopfromafatmice,giveittothethinmice,thethinmicebecomes
fat.
Dave:
ThatwasintheBulletproofDiet.Youreadaboutthatstudy.
Naveen:
Thinmice,youtakeamicrobiome,thepoopandputtheminafatmice,thefacemice
becomesthin.
Dave:
DoesthatmeanareyougoingtobeabletobuyMichaelPhelpspooponeBay?Howdo
youknowwheretogetthisstuff?You'redoingmicrobiometestingasapartofViome,
andIabsolutelylovedoingonceeverythreemonthssoyoucanseewhatchanged.It
changesin48hourswhenyoueatpizza.
Naveen:
Itdoes.
Dave:
Allthebadonescomeupthatmakethecancercausingthings.It'sprettyfast.
Naveen:
Itis.
Dave:
Whataboutthis?Wheredopeoplegetthat?What'syourthough?
Naveen:
Ithinkthatattheendoftheday,youneedto,insteadofjuststoringyourstemcells,
youshouldalsobestoringyourpoop.Whenyou'rehealthyyouhaveyourpoopand
whenyouactuallygetsickandGodforbidyouhavetotakeantibioticsandyou'regoing
toessentiallycarpetbombyourgutflora,youneedtogobackandre-populatewith
yourownhealthymicrobiome.
Dave:
Doallthosebacteriaandphagesandallthat,dotheysurvive[inaudible01:14:29]?
Naveen:
Theyabsolutelysurvive.
Dave:
Interesting.There'sactuallyarealbusinessopportunitythere.Iwoulddothat.Infact,
oneofmykidshasneverhadanyantibiotics.Theotheronehadoneforarapidly
spreadinginfectionthatwasnecessary.
Naveen:
That'smypoint.Iftheyhadapoop,theycouldtheyhavere-plantedthat.
Dave:
Ihaveasevenyearold'sperfectlyhealthypoop,butIknowitwon'tlastinmyfreezer,
butIhaveliquidnitrogenathomebecauseofacryotherapychamber.Icouldwork
somethingout.Weneedabankforthat.
Naveen:
Youneedapoopbank.Ireallythinkthepoopbankandstemcellbankarereallythekey.
Dave:
That'ssuchacoolidea.Somebodystartthat.I'llmakeadeposit.
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Naveen:
Actuallytheinterestingthingisthesametypeofthingisthatyoutalkaboutlivinglong
andlivinghealthy.Anotherthingyoucoulddoistheresearchshowsthatwhenthey're
abletotakebloodfromayoungperson,ayoungmicetoanoldmice,itactually
reversedaging.
Dave:
I'velookedatthefeasibilityofjusthiringacollegestudentwhodoesn'tdoalotofbad
drugsandthingslikethatthataregoingtomessthemupandjustbelike,"Here'sthe
deal.Here'sasizeablecheckwhichistoencourageyoutoliveahealthylifeandtopay
foryourqualityfoodandallthatstuff.Sincegivingbloodeverysixweeksisgoodforyou
anyway,itdoesn'tharmyouinanyway,whydon'twejustdothat?"IknowPeterTeal,
peoplearelike,"He'savampire."Whothehellcares?Thisseemslikeagreatwayfora
youngpersontohelpsupplementtheirschoolingorsomething,andwhywouldn'tyou?
Naveen:
Theinterestingthingisyoudon'thavetodothatanymorebecauseyoushouldbeable
totakeyourownbloodwhenyou'reyoung,achild,storeit,andtakethestemcells
fromthebloodandactuallymultiplythem.Nowyoucanmultiplythestemcellsoutside
yourbody.
Dave:
Youwoulddobloodstemcellsorfatstemcells?
Naveen:
Whatdoyoumean?
Dave:
I'vehadmystemcellstakenoutofmyfat.
Naveen:
No,butyouwoulddofromtheblood.
Dave:
Interesting.Blooddoesn'thavetonsofstemcellsinit.
Naveen:
Theplasma.
Dave:
Theplatelet,plasmakindofstuff.Okay,cool.
Naveen:
Mypointisyou'reabletoinfacttakethestemcellsfromyourfatfromyourskinand
abletogrowthem.
Dave:
I'vedonethat.Ihavemybanked.Ihave25dosesbanked.
Naveen:
Morethanjustbank.I'msayingyoucanactuallymultiplythem.
Dave:
Yeah,wetookonedoseandgrewitto25.
Naveen:
Youcanamplifythemandre-injectyourstemcellseverynowandthen.
Dave:
Idoiteverysixmonths.
Naveen:
Thereyougo.Thatactuallywillkeepyourbodyhealthyandcontinuouslyrepaired.
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Dave:
You'renotdoingthisyet?
Naveen:
I'mnotdoingityet,butI'mstilllookingyoung.
Dave:
Youare,butyoushouldstorethemnowbecausetheydoage.I'vegotahookupforyou
inSeattleifyouwant.It'sabouta20minutedrivefromourofficeswherewecanjust
makeithappen.
Naveen:
Imightjustdothat.
Dave:
Evenifyoudon'thavethemre-injected,justtogetthemharvestedandstored.When
you're90,youwant50to70yearoldstemcells,not90yearoldstemcells.
Naveen:
Thatiscorrect.
Dave:
Youowethattoyourself.Thatandyourextratwohoursofsleepmightbeagood
[crosstalk01:17:09].
Naveen:
Thereyougo.Thatrarity.
Dave:
Awesome.Naveen,it'sbeenafantasticconversation.WetalkedaboutMoonExpress,
wetalkedaboutViome.Wetalkedaboutjustyourbackgroundasanentrepreneur,how
muchsleepyouget.Ifsomeonecametoyoutomorrowandtheysaid,"Look,Iwantto
performbetterateverythingIdoinmylife,whatarethethreemostimportantpiecesof
adviceyouhaveforme,"whatwouldyouhavetoofferthem?
Naveen:
Firstofallwouldbetostartdreamingbig.Reallystarttothinkaboutwhatarethe
biggestproblems.Don'tbeafraidthatIknownothingaboutit.Ifyoulookatthemost
successfulentrepreneurs,theyarenottheexpertsintheirfield.Theyallstartedbecause
theysawabigproblem.Whenyouseeabigproblem,youessentiallystarttotakea
small,smallslice,thenstartexecutingonthem.Thethingthatyoushouldbedoingis
thatwhenyoumeetasuccessfulperson,tostartfollowingtheirhabits,whichisoneof
thebadthingsIhearconstantly.
Dave:
Ilovethis.
Naveen:
Peoplesay,"Sevenhabitsofsuccessfulpeople."Actuallyitmakesnodifference.
Followingpeopleshabitisnotwhatyouwant.Followingthepartprocessiswhatyou
want.Howtheythinkabouttheproblem,howtheythinkaboutlife,howtheythink
aboutwhatisgoingon.Followtheirpartprocess,don'tfollowtheirhabits.Yes,love
TonyRobbins,lovehim,butjustbecausehegoesoutandtakesabatheverydaydoesn't
meanifyoutakeanicebathyou'regoingtobecomeTonyRobbins.
Dave:
Yeah,Tony'saspecialguywithouttheicebath.
Naveen:
Exactlymypoint.He'sjustaspecialguy.
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Dave:
Itworksforhim.
Naveen:
Ifhedidn'ttakeanicebath,hewouldbegreatTonyRobbinswithouttheicebath.
Dave:
Ihearyou.Idoallsortsofweirdbiohackingstuffthatmakesadifferenceforme,but
maybesomeonewantstotryit,I'maprofessionalguineapig.Ihearyouthere.Oneof
thereasonsIdon'tdisclosemyentirelistofsupplements,Idon'twantpeopledoing
whatIdo.I'maguywithautoimmuneissueswhousedtobeobesewho's44anddoes
allsortsofweirdstuff.Godforbidthatyoucopyme.Dowhat'srightforyou.That'swhy
Italkaboutwhatsomethingsdo.Thankyouforsayingthat.You'retheonlyguestin355
guestswhoseeversaidthat.
Naveen:
Thankyou.
Dave:
Ilovethatanswer.Thatwasone.Learnhowtothink,nothabits.
Naveen:
Numbertwowouldbedreamingbigandnotbeafraidtofail.Thenumberthreewould
beconstantlystayintellectuallycurious.Thedayyoustopdreaming,stopbeing
intellectuallycurious,youhaveactuallydiedatthattime.You'vebecomeazombie.To
me,remainingintellectuallycuriousisoneofthemostimportantthingsyoudo.Ithink
evenpeopletalkaboutplayinggolf.Ifyouhavesomuchtimeinyourlifethatyoucan
spendeighthoursonagolfcourse,Ithinkyoushouldgivesomebody,saying,"Hey,you
havearighttoshootmethatmylifeissuchawastethatIcanspendeighthoursofmy
lifeonagolfcourse.Mylifeisnotworthlivinganymore."
Dave:
Igottoconfess.Iknowsomeofthegolfersarehorrifiedrightnow.WhenIgraduated
fromWharton,abunchofmyfriendsandIwerelike,"Weshouldlearntogolf.That's
whatsuccessfulpeopledo."Allofusandwe'reinPaloAlto,wegotothegolfcourseand
wetakesixweeksofgolflessonsonaSaturdaymorning.AttheendofsixweeksIthink
nineoutof10ofuslookedaround,we'relike,"Thistakesincredibleamountsoftime.
Screwthisnoise,"andweneverwentback.Theotheronesarelike,"Thisisgood
sunshine."Idon'tknowwhytheywent.I'mwithyouthere.
Naveen:
Mypointisthey'rereallyfocusedonwhatyoucareabout.Findsomethingthatactually
movestheneedle.Tome,peopletalkabouthavingapassion,talkabout,"Iwanttodo
whatI'mpassionateabout."Myfeelingisnotactuallyaboutthingsthatyouare
passionateabout.It'ssomethingyouneedtobeobsessedabout.Itissomethingthat
youcan'tsleepbecauseyoujustareobsessedaboutwhatisgoingon.Thattome,and
peoplesay"HowdoIeverfindwhatmypassionis?"IthinkwhatIfoundisthebestway
tofindwhatyourtruepassionis,imagineifyouhaveeverythingthatyouwantinlife,
youhave$1billion,youhavewonderfulfamily,youhaveeverythingthatyoualways
wanted.Whatisitthatyouwoulddothen?
Ifyoudothatnow,youwouldgeteverythingthatyouwant.Thatmeansyourtrue
passionissomethingyou'regoingtodowhenyouhaveeverythinginyourlife.Thatis
yourtruepassion.Ifyoudothat,youwillgeteverythingyouwant.Makingmoneyis
nevershouldbethegoal.Makingmoneyisthebyproductofdoingthingsthatyou
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actuallycareabout.Makingmoneyislikehavinganorgasm.Ifyoufocusonit,you're
nevergoingtogetit.Ifyouenjoytheprocess,youwillgetthat.That'smypointisifyou
focusonmakingmoney,youwillnevermakeit.Ifyoufocusonsolvingaproblem,you'll
makemoneyasabyproduct.
Dave:
Igottodoubledownonthatone.IwasextremelyfocusedonmakingmoneyuntilIwas
about30,butitwaslikethat'sallthatmatters.
Naveen:
Bytheway,younevermadeit.
Dave:
Youcan'tkeepit,andyou'remiserableallthetime.It'sahorriblelife.It'sabsolutelyjust
asshittyaslifecouldeverbe.I'mhappyyouofferedthattolistenersaswellbecauseit's
true.It'sthemeaningandtheexperiencesthatmatter.
Naveen:
OnceyoustartedBulletproofandyoustarteddoingthingsthatyoucaredabout...
Dave:
It'seasier.
Naveen:
...guesswhat,nowyouaremakingmoneythateventhoughyou'vebeenwanting,you
didn'tfocusonit.
Dave:
Itwasn'twhenIstartedthecompany.Ialreadyhadasalaryandstockoptionsandstuff.
Naveen:
Thereyougo.
Dave:
Itwastheretodosomethinggood.Ifpeopletooknothingelseawayfromthiswhole
thing,thatonepieceofadvice,focusonvaluecreationnotonmoney,themoney
happensevenifitdoesn'tfeellikeit'sgoingto.
Naveen:
That'sright.Onceyoubecomesuccessfulanywayit'snotaboutlivingalifeofsuccess,
it'slivingalifeofsignificanceiswhatmatters.OtherthingthatIwouldsayprobablyat
leastIalwaysfollowandIprobablyshouldoffertoeveryoneelseissurroundyourself
withpeoplethatarepositive.Walkawayfromanyonewholaughsatyourambition.
Walkawayfrompeoplewhoarenegative.Youdon'twantanegativeenergyaround
you.
Dave:
It'sokaytofireyourfriendsifthey'renotdoingit.
Naveen:
That'sright.Theminuteyoufindpeoplewhoarenegative,whetherthey'reyour
employeesornot,soItelleverysinglepersonwhoworkswithmeinmycompany,my
simpleadviceisyourtotalcontributiontothiscompanyisyourproductivitytimesyour
attitude.Ifyourattitudeisnegative,Idon'treallycarehowproductiveyouare,you'rea
negativecontributiontothecompany.You'vegottogo.
Dave:
It'saveryhealthywaytokeepyourcultureclean.I'mveryfortunateatBulletproof
becauseofourmissionIthinkweattractthepositivepeople.Allittakesisacoupleof
peoplewithabadattitudeanditspreads.
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Naveen:
Badapple,rottenapples.Ithinkthatrightthingasanentrepreneur,whichreallyisto
cleanthatculture.That'sasubtledifferencebetweenacultleaderandanentrepreneur.
Acultleaderwantstokeeptheloyaltyofpeopletothemselves,andagreat
entrepreneurtakestheloyaltyandmakesitthecauseofthecompany.Thatactually
survivesandthrivesbeyondtheentrepreneur.Peoplewhoareworking,theydon'twork
forDave,theyworkforBulletproof.ThecauseofBulletproofistheircause.Theircause
isnottomakeDaveAsprey.
Dave:
Thankgoodness.
Naveen:
That'swhatIlove.
Dave:
Itmakesmekindofmadreally.Whatdoyouwant?What'sbestforeveryone,that's
whatIwant.MaybeIdon'tevenknow.
Naveen:
ThethingthatIloveaboutyouDaveiswehavespentsomuchtimetogether,isthat
yourenergy,yourpassionandtheproductthatyoubuildtheyactuallywork.You'renot
sellingthesnakeoil.Inthisindustry,Ihavetoaddtherearetoomanypeoplewhojust
sellsnakeoil.ThethingthatIloveaboutBulletproofiseveryproductissomethingyou
havetested,somethingyouknowscientificallyworks.WhenIbuyBulletproof,Iam
buyingthecredibilityofDavebecauseIknowDavewouldnotsellitunlessitactually
worked.Thatisthekindofcredibilitythateveryentrepreneurneedstohavethatevery
companyyoustart,youputyournameonit.Everyoneknowsthatit'smycompanyand
ifIdosomethingwrong,yougettotaketheblame.
Iknowwhenyouputyournametoit,Iknowthatproductworks.Ihopeallofyour
listenersknowthatitdoesn'tmatterwhatproductyouintroduce,they'rebuyingit
becauseofyouandyourcredibility,yourscienceisreallysomethingthathasreallybuilt
whatBulletproofis.
Dave:
Thanksforsayingthat.That'sgreatpraise.Iappreciatethatyoutalkaboutthefactthat
youuseit.That'sreallycoolandI'mgrateful.Aswewindupthisshow,earlierwe
mentionedpeoplewhowanttogetfirstinlifefortrackingtheirdatausingthismonthly
modelthatworksreallywellforme.Insteadofhavingtogetblooddrawn,it'safinger
stickhome.Youcandoitallathome.
Naveen:
Allathome.
Dave:
Withoutanyannoyingness.
Naveen:
Bytheway,there'snoshippingintheicecontainer.
Dave:
Noneofthat,okay.
Naveen:
There'snobodycomingtoyourhousedoingtheintravenousblooddraw.Noneofthat
stuff.
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Dave:
It'scompletelydisruptivetothewayyou'reusedtogettingthisdata.
Naveen:
That'sright.
Dave:
You'regettingdatathat'sactuallynotavailableinnormallabtests,likeyour
mitochondrialfunction.
Naveen:
Bytheway,we'renotalab,sowe'reactuallyaservice.It'sa[inaudible01:26:42]
service.YouhaveaniPhoneappandanandroidapp,andyou'reabletoessentiallysee
whatisgoingon.You'llbeabletounderstandwhatyouneedtobedoing,andit'syour
constantcompanion.
Dave:
Itprovidesgoodadviceanditgivesyouthedata.I'mreallyexcitedaboutthis.That's
Viome,V-I-O-M-E,dotcom,andthenthecodeisBulletproof,whichwillputyouatthe
frontoftheline.
Naveen:
That'sright.
Dave:
Whichisprettycool.Guys,rememberthat,andifthat'sinteresttoyou,pleasedoit.If
it'sinterestingtosomeoneelse,sendittothem.Ifit'snotinterestingatall,don'tgo
there.Justknowthatwearedisruptingwhatwasoncesomethingthattookadoctor's
noteandsomestickingveinsinyourarmandrefrigeratedbloodshipping.Iusedtoruna
labtestingcompanyabout10yearsago.It'shorriblebusiness.You'redisruptingallthat
justsopeoplehavecleandataabouthowthingsarechangingovertime,andthat'sa
holygrailforme.
Naveen:
Actuallymorethanthat.Youcouldn'tgetthismuchdata10yearsago.Itdidn'tmatter
whatyoudid.
Dave:
Itried.Icouldnotgetit.
Naveen:
That'sthepoint.Todaywehaveaccesstokindofinformationthatwasneveravailable
before,andthatkindofdisruptioniswhatwillchangewhoweare,howweliveand
makesicknessoptional.
Dave:
Exactly.Naveen,thanksforbeingonBulletproof.
Naveen:
ThankyouDave.Whatapleasure.
Dave:
Itwasgreatfun.
Naveen:
Thankyou.
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