Interview with Helen Liskov, by B. Thompson, for the Bridgeport Public Library
Oral History Project, Bridgeport Working: Voices from the 20th Century,
November 21, 1997.
Part 1:
Early Experiences as Student
Part 2:
Why I Wanted to Become a Teacher: Teacher Training
Part 3:
Helping Disadvantaged Students Succeed
HELEN LISKOV
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Interview with Helen Liskov, by B. Thompson, for the Bridgeport Public Library
Oral History Project, Bridgeport Working: Voices from the 20th Century,
November 21, 1997.
I:
I want to start off by asking you a few questions about when you were
younger and how you individually worked hard in the public schools
here in Bridgeport and if you could compare the way that you were
personally taught when you were in school to the way that you think
that you then actually taught other students when you became a
teacher.
HL:
I taught in the high schools so therefore I shall compare my high
school experience as a student and what happened when I taught. I
was very impressed with the dedication, the thoroughness that some
of these teachers presented. For example, my math teachers,
arithmetic teachers because one of the courses I took in those days
was commercial arithmetic. Gave us a drill every single day in
addition for about five minutes. She would write a number on the
board and then we would have to repeat that number and the other
and add those and then add the two last numbers until we got ten
numbers. That was a test of our ability that was quick and really kept
us sharp along those lines.
My history teacher was a very wonderful person in that she
made history live for us. She made us feel as if we were part of that
time and it was so different from the type of history I had had up to
that time. It was when I was a senior and in those days, U.S. history
was required. So those are the things that I recall. How important it
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is to personalize, make each person feel how important the subject is
and the relationship of the subject to the student.
I: Do you feel that there were attempts to kind of Americanize these
students while you were going to school? To really focus just on
speaking English as opposed to other languages?
HL: No. I didn't have -- . When I was teaching, when I was a counselor I
became very involved with students who had just come in and at that
time there were no classes for English as a second language and it
was my job to try to get these students to feel comfortable in a setting
and I would try to arrange periods when other students would be free
who were taking the same classes and who could participate in that
experience.
I: So, what about when you were a student yourself? When you were in
high school or elementary or middle school, did you really witness
any real concerted attempts by the teachers to discourage students in
their own ethnicity in terms of maybe changing their names or
shortening them or -- ?
HL: No, no, no, no. There was a real feeling of understanding and I never
felt that there was anything different. As a matter of fact, when I was
going to elementary school, I was the only Jewish student, maybe a
few, not too many, in the school. We always stayed out for the high
holy days and that made me feel different. Not that anybody made me
feel different, but I realized that there was something that I was doing
that was not the thing that had been done or was being done by
others.
I: But there was understanding --?
HELEN LISKOV
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HL: No, there was no time that I felt that anyone had projected that kind of
feeling on me.
I: That's good. At what point in your life did you decide that you
wanted to be a teacher?
HL: I think when I was in kindergarten. To me, being a teacher was a
lofty position and I had a cousin who was a teacher who taught in
New York and whenever she came I just felt as if it were an angel
who had come down from heaven. I remember how happy I was
when she came. When she left, I cried because she was going. But I
always had wanted to be a teacher. I had, as I was growing up,
concocted a classroom situation that I created. It wasn't real people. I
had a roll book and I had played school with myself so I loved it. To
me it was really a beautiful thing to aspire to.
I: I think so, too. You attended the Bridgeport Normal School.
HL: Oh, no. I graduated from high school in February. In those days they
had mid-year graduation. It was the time that the University of
Bridgeport had opened and I was in the first class. They needed
someone to help the Secretary, who was really the most important
person. She was the only one in the office. She was the Secretary to
the President and she needed someone to help her. They were
looking for someone who would be willing to come in and work and
receive tuition in payment. Now, they needed money as much as I did
and so that was the arrangement that was made. So, I became the
stenographer, if you please. That's where my shorthand and typing
came in very handy. I helped her and occasionally I would take
dictation from the President of the college. At that time, the
HELEN LISKOV
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University opened in February and for the people in the first class, we
would be attending for a year and a half and completing our two year
program. (Aside from Sam Liskov: It wasn't the University of
Bridgeport then. It was the Junior College of Connecticut, you're
right.)
HL: And, at that time, it was the only Junior College in all of New
England. It was an unheard of kind of an event. Dr. Cortwright, who
had been Superintendent of Schools in Bridgeport, then taught at New
York University, decided he would come to Bridgeport and organize
a Junior College, so ours was the first one and I was a member of the
very first class that graduated. There were thirteen students who
graduated from the University of Bridgeport –oh, from the Junior
College, excuse me.
I: Were they all studying education as well?
HL: No, no, no, as a matter of fact, they went into dentistry, they went into
law and one or two went into business, I think. Obviously, went into
teaching, yes.
I: What was your training for being teaching like at this school? What
kind of classes do you take?
HL: At the Junior College I took all business and commerce courses,
English and that was it. Then I transferred to New York University to
the School of Education there. That's where I got my education
courses.
I: And what were those education courses like at this time?
HL: Well, I will tell you. It was a lot of book learning that had very little
practicality and again, at that time, business teachers were very hard
HELEN LISKOV
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to find. All the people who had majored in academic subjects were
just brought up to do business work. There were no openings. New
York City --to become a teacher in New York City was a very tedious
and compounded process. I happened to be able to do substituting
when I went to NYU and at one school where I substituted, I had a
whole week to cover the class while the teacher was out. She left a
lesson plan for me and I took the lesson plan and used it. I gave tests
every day and graded them and left them for her. Well, evidently it
was something that nobody else had done, but remember, I was still
playing school and here was an opportunity for me to really be a
teacher. So she called attention to the fact that this had been done to
the head of the department and there was, what they called, a
sabbatical leave of the term that was given to the teacher and when a
teacher went on sabbatical to replace her. They called on me and I
taught for a whole term. That was the richest educational experience
I had in all my years of teaching. The head of the department would
come in and visit every single month for a period. Then he would
write a report; call me in and he would give me a critique that was so
valuable and really, I felt that was the best I had in my total
experience.
I: I wanted to talk to you now about how, in Bridgeport, after World
War II, and especially after 1965, there was a change from mainly
Irish. Italian and Hungarian immigration to the city to a lot of African
American and Hispanic immigration and how you think that this
change really manifested itself in the school system.
HELEN LISKOV
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HL: I wasn't teaching in Bridgeport then. Then, I was teaching in
Stratford and there, there were black students, but at that time, the
curriculum was not what it is today. They had the college
preparatory, the scientific, the business and the general course. Most
of the people who were in the minority groups were taking general
courses. And usually at a low level.
I had a very interesting experience. One of my boys -- at that
time I was in guidance -- it was a history teacher who called my
attention to the fact that this boy who was in the lowest level was
unusual in his ability to relate, to absorb facts and so forth. She
thought that he should be upgraded. That was interesting. So I
started to do some research on him, called him in and he said that he
just loved to read and he would read and he would read the history
book and go back and find whatever he could. He was transferred to
an upper level. His English teacher thought that maybe he should be
raised there, too. It turned out that he became the student who was
given the honor of relating the history of the school at graduation. So
that was unusual.
Again, the black students who had any potential at all, were
being sought by prestigious colleges. I remember that the
representative of the University of Connecticut came to me and he
said, "Where are your black students? How come we're not getting
them?" And I said, "I will tell you something. The black students
who can do the work are going to Harvard and to other schools of that
kind." I had several who went to Harvard. "You make the mistake by
not going to the teachers in the primary grades because by the time
HELEN LISKOV
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these kids got to third grade, either they felt that they were unable to
cope and were lost." The good ones whom the rest of the classes
concentrated on. They wanted to elevate them. They became
showpieces. And that was one of the tragedies that happened so far
as our minority people are concerned. I feel that it must be in the
elementary grades, from kindergarten up, with parent involvement, if
possible. Now, as a matter of fact, we go to Chautauqua every year.
Chautauqua is one of the great learning centers that exists in the
United States. We go every summer. President Clinton, who at that
time, was not president, he was the principle speaker. Introducing the
president was Dukakis, who was going to run for president. Well, the
thing was that Clinton started to talk and he talked so long that time
that people just gave up. He came to Chautauqua that summer, the
end of the summer, and I remember his joking about it. He said,
"Well, I learned one thing. I learned that I have to be short in order to
keep people's attention." But, he went on to explain what he has done
in his state.1 Once a month, parents must go to school during the day.
They must be excused from work. There must be that kind of parent
involvement. He said, "I got that idea from Israel. There must be a
total child in the picture -- parent, school, child." And that, I think, is
something that we should be doing if we want our minority students
to really achieve their potential.
I: I wanted to ask you, you mentioned before about how you were one
of the first people to start an English as a second language or --?
1
Bill Clinton was 40th and 42nd Governor of Arkansas, 1983-1992
HELEN LISKOV
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HL: No, I didn't start an English--. I just --students who came in and I did
this very informally. We didn't have too many students who came in.
Some of them did very well. Some of them went to Fairfield
University at the time they graduated. And some of them had really
completed their education and had taken math that was much more
advanced than what they had been made to. English was the only
thing that was their problem. But, there were very few and they did
very well.
I: So, overall, you really didn't see kind of the ethnic or racial mix at
school change?
HL: No, not at Stratford.
I: But you also taught at Bridgeport, didn't you?
HL: I taught at Bridgeport but also a very short time. I taught at
Bridgeport and then I went on to Stratford as a counselor, yes. And
then I, yes.
I: Okay. So it was really mainly at [unclear].
HL: Yes, right.
I: Now I need to ask you a couple of questions that Mary [Mary
Witkowsi, Head, Bridgeport History Center] wanted me to. Were you
ever involved in the teachers' union at any time?
HL: Yes, I was.
I: And how was that organized?
HL: It was organized by four or five members of the Teachers'
Association. The union was sort of the fly that bit the association to
get them going. The person who was the president of it, later became
the principal of Warren Harding High School, Frank [unclear]. We
HELEN LISKOV
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were very involved. We would attend board meetings and we really
thought we had a function, but as time went on and as the people
aspired to higher positions, the union no longer meant as much to
them and to all of us, we just folded.
I: Did you ever have any strikes, or --?
HL: Oh, yes. The Teachers' Association had a strike. As a matter of fact,
the teachers' Association had a strike and teachers were sent to jail
because they were striking. Oh, yes. They had quite a time in jail.
We did have one. Don't ask me when.
I: Do you feel that you ever experienced any personal discrimination
against you, being a woman, or being Jewish?
HL: No, not in --, no.
I: This is –those are really all the questions I had to ask you [unclear].
HL: Well, that's wonderful. I tell you, I didn't know what you were going
to ask, but -- .
I: Oh, I'm sorry. I could have given you some more idea if that would
have made it easier.
HL: No, no, it was just very sweet to answer those questions that gave me
the chance to remember things and people that I hadn't thought of in a
long time.
(Aside from Sam Liskov: Some of it I never heard before either. And
we were there in the beginning. We met at the Junior College of
Connecticut and Helen graduated in 1929. I graduated in '30. I was
in the second class. And then, several years later, I went to law
school. They accepted my Junior College work in New York at
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NYU. In those days you didn't need a degree to go to graduate
school.)
HL: Well, that's very good. I'm glad that it fulfilled your mission.
I: Yes.
HL: Very good.
End of Interview