Energy Exhibits Meeting Notes
Monday, March 30th
Attendance: Jack Knoll, Jim Gray, Art Carlson, Vance Vesey, Ryan Caya, Courtney Stoltz, Charlie Bullinger,
Brian Rosin, Bill Gefroh, Beth Demke, DeVane Webster, and Chris Dorfschmidt
Art started off the meeting with introductions. He then described the purpose of the meeting and how
he wanted to proceed. The group would first talk about the messages of the Energy exhibition and then
would go through the Energy production exhibits (pg. 25) in the idea file.
Messages:
DeVane: They need to get kids excited! Kids need to get excited science and pursue STEM careers.
Jim: I like the idea of teaching basic scientific concepts. Energy lends itself to a great discussion on the
laws of thermal dynamics.
Ryan: Ohm’s Law should be represented. Is there anything in the gallery now or the idea file that
showcases Ohm’s law?
Chris: No, but we could look into that.
Ryan: I think that we should look into that.
Ohm's law states that the current through a conductor between two points is directly
proportional to the potential difference across the two points. Introducing the constant of
proportionality, the resistance,[1] one arrives at the usual mathematical equation that
describes this relationship:[2]
where I is the current through the conductor in units of amperes, V is the potential
difference measured across the conductor in units of volts, and R is the resistance of the
conductor in units of ohms. More specifically, Ohm's law states that the R in this relation
is constant, independent of the current.[3]
Charlie: I think that we need to look at Fossil Energy. Art had the Steam Engine at SMM going and that
is one way to show that concept. I hate to continue to harp on it, but we need to focus on emissions. It
is one of the biggest parts of the story and it is often not told. If it is told then it usually comes in the
form of negative news. There are solutions and they are not shared. I don’t know how you would do it
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and make it hands on, but it would be great to show how emissions are handled. Get kids involved in
the solutions. Frank could take kids in the lab and neutralize some acid. I just don’t know how you
would make scrubbers and bag houses interesting for kids.
Art: Chris has some ideas about that.
Chris: I have lots of ideas. One of the nano demos that we do in the gallery right now uses a cup full of
balls and different layers of wire mesh. As you pour it in, the balls are separated by size. Something like
that could work.
DeVane: You could use a fan with a tube and some balloons. It would only take a little bit of energy to
give them a charge and have them pulled out of the tube.
Charlie: I don’t know. Something like that could work, but will it hook the kids in. That I don’t know.
How do you hook them in? I didn’t mean to start a tangent, but it is passion of mine.
Art: I think one of the questions that Chris and I have been discussing is do we focus on the energy
sources here in ND Coal, Steam, Hydro, some solar? Or do we want to look at a larger picture and cover
energy in the nation?
Jim: I think a world or nation break down would be great. It would allow visitors to see different
options. Find a way to depict the pros & cons of the different fuel sources. We were just talking
emissions, which would be a cleaner way to power your house energy from a coal power plant or a
wood burning stove. It might surprise some people.
Charlie: That could be something. At SMM they used Peanut Butter jars to show the different weights
on the different planets. Maybe something similar that shows energy density. 1lb. of coal vs 1lb. of
wood vs. 1lb of oil.
Jim: I think that it would be good to educate people about what is in emissions. Where we live we are
close to the refinery. We have a great view of it. When it is winter so many people think that there is
pollution coming out of the stack, but it’s just water vapor. Most people don’t know about that.
Ryan: We could easily look at opacity. Maybe even looking at a wet scrubber in comparison to a dry
one. It could lead to a conversation about taking a worry and impacting another industry. Maybe
something on the life of a piece of coal.
Charlie: Using a scrubber allows for seeding clouds. There are many byproducts in the production of
energy and we don’t realize just how much stuff comes from the production of energy.
Chris: As I was looking through the idea file, I was trying to determine what the oil refinery exhibit
pictured is. I was not the one to collect this one and it is in Arabic. One of the things that it could show
is all the different things produced from oil. It is just a thought.
Brian: I think that it would be interesting to look at the economics of energy. People complain about
gas prices, but have no idea all of the costs that go into it.
DeVane: There is a lot of talk about the demand for green energy, but most people do not know the
costs of maintenance.
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Charlie: It is the old question of what do you do on a clear, calm, cold night. Besides wind turbines are a
powersink. When it drops to -20 they have to heat the gear box. So now they are using electricity to
power a heater.
Art: Plus there problems with static discharge. They end up replacing the gearbox every few years or
the static will wear out the mechanical parts.
Jim: I think we should try and show how we use energy to do work. I think it would be great across
disciplines. How many calories does it take to do a job yourself vs the calories in electricity to use tools?
Art: Chris thought we could do something like that using the electric bike that is in the idea file a few
pages later. Show different amounts of power use. Maybe that is not exactly what you are getting at.
Jim: Kind of.
Charlie: Maybe using multiple sources to power something. You could then see which one does it best.
Messages at the end of this conversation:
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While there are problems in energy there are also solutions.
So much is being done to reduce emissions. Environmental Success stories.
There are many different sources of energy and there are pros and cons to all of them.
How we use energy to do work
Improvements in technology within the energy field.
The economics of energy. The costs and benefits from different types of energy. How to
balance our energy needs and create a balanced energy system.
At the half way point we gained Beth and Courtney. The conversation switched to talking about ideas
within the idea file. To help with knowing about which ones the group is talking about I numbered them
on the page starting at the top left corner and working across then moving on to the next line.
1234
5678
Pg25
#1
Jack: I am assuming that it will be bigger than what we currently have in the gallery?
Chris: Much bigger.
DeVane: I think that this pump jack and oil derrick looks great. It would be good if we could show the
layers of the earth’s surface. Most people do not realize just how far down we are drilling. It would be
good if there was a way to demonstrate Fracking.
Ryan: Maybe having a map of Bismarck and showing that the pipe streatches from point A to point B.
That could help give people some understanding of just how far down we are drilling.
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Brian: There is the possibility of using some wall space to show depth. Could be a good way to both
decorate and be educational. Maybe it is even in the eating area. Something that the kids could look at
while they eat lunch.
Beth: That is all going to be windows.
Brian: It is all going to be window? Well there is always the ceiling.
Charlie: When we were down in Houston they had an exhibit on energy.
Beth: It was not as hands on as I would of liked.
Charlie: True. But they had one that gave the impression of going down into the earth’s surface. It
would shake and make you feel like you were going down. Like the spinning lab from the Space exhibit.
Beth: It was called the Geovator. They are working on a new one. Maybe we should talk to them about
building us one?
Charlie: It was not that good. I would rather see them choose which bit and do something with it
instead of just look at a drill bit.
Somebody: What if we looked at something like the drilling simulator? It looks like it could be a great
way to show layers.
#6
Beth: It would be could if it had more choices. Where to drill? How far down? From these choices you
could measure output.
Jim: How much energy can you get out of the ground? How much energy to get that energy?
DeVane: You could choose your own drill bit. You could decide if you frack or not. I think that it would
work well combining it, but it has got to be quick. If an exhibit takes too much time, people won’t do it.
#2
Jim: Is there any liability concerns that we need to think about with a zipline?
Beth: More than likely. We would have our lawyers look into it.
Jim: I think that it would be a great example of potential to kinetic energy.
Ryan: It would take up a lot of floor space.
Vance: Depends on the angle and how far it goes. It could be done pretty safe and small.
#3
Art: SMM had one of these. I thought that it was great how you could try different blades and get
different results, but it would be good if you could measure how much power you generated.
Beth: What is the difference between numbers 3 and 7?
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Chris: Number 3 is just about trying different blade configurations. 7 you are controlling and aiming the
wind and measuring power generated.
Beth: I think that they should both be combined to form one exhibit.
All: General agreement to this.
Courtney: I think the voltmeter is good, but I think for younger kids it would be better if there was some
sort of visual result. Lightbulbs turn on or it turns on something else. Little kids won’t care about a
voltmeter.
Chris: We have one on Light up your life and nobody watches it.
#4
Art: Solar types?
Chris: This one is just a place holder. The idea is to create some sort of solar power exhibit, but not sure
what.
Beth: I think we could use the solar car to show light power better. Allow kids to make their own car.
How many solar panels do you need? Does it add too much weight to the car? Maybe it is a long track
with LED lights?
Courtney: The one in the picture looks too static. Having a track will get kids up and moving and trying
different things.
Bill & Jack: Being able to race your family and friends could make it a return exhibit.
Ryan: This could also allow for a math connection. You would have to weigh your vehicle and then make
sure that you can get enough speed.
Brian: There are other challenges that could be added. Such as being able to store enough energy to
get through an area that is not well lit.
Charlie: It would be a good simulation of night driving or going through a tunnel.
Chris: The only other idea that I have seen and really liked was the solar panel exhibit from SMM’s
Space exhibit. But it might be better used with a different concept since the solar powered car exhibit
looks favorable.
#5
Art: This is one we need to think about. There really is not a lot of geothermal energy in North Dakota.
Do we spend time on it.
Brian: I like the idea of heat or cool exchanger. There are ways to demonstrate it, but how do you make
it hands on plus something that kids are going to like.
Charlie: The reason that we do not have it here is that we would have to dig too deep. There are some
places that have them and use them, but not many.
DeVane: I think that with the limited floor space that we spend the funds on something else.
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Bill: Could it work to do some sort of cost comparison between the different types of energy. You could
see which one is more efficient like lightbulbs. People see a demonstration on how little energy is used
to turn on an LED light and they tend to go out and buy them. Maybe placing a wind mill and a solar
panel outside one of the windows and allow them to how much energy each one is producing.
Charlie: Density was brought up earlier. This could work with that.
Courtney: It is a hard one to find hands on activities for. You could have an exhibit where you have to
find the hotspot. It might take up a bit too much floor space. But when I think about geothermal, I tend
to think of plate tectonics.
#8
All: General agreement that hydro power was being covered in the water exhibit.
Pg. 26
#1
Art: This gets my vote. I like the idea of steam power. I enjoyed the one at SMM, but it was honestly
using compressed air and not really using steam. Plus the maintenance on it could make it difficult.
Chris and I have been talking about this and he has some ideas on how we could simulate a furnace
while using black foam to represent coal.
Chris: I see this to be similar to the solar panel exhibit from Space. You use a simulator of a dragline to
scoop up material. Conveyor belts take it to the powerplant. Then you have some controls like space
that give you some variables in energy production.
Charlie: You know that Draglines don’t just scoop up coal?
Chris: Sorry I skipped a step. There could easily be a sorter station. Where they they eve to separate
the dirt from the coal. Maybe there is a penalty if you get too much dirt into the process.
Beth: I like this idea. I think that it does a good job reinforcing teamwork.
#2
Beth: There should be a way to combine exhibits to show them better.
Somebody: It looks like just another marble run.
Beth: Marble runs are ok, but the marbles end up on the floor
and then we have to worry about somebody tripping on them.
Chris: I am finding more and more that I hate marbles. As
soon as they hit the floor, nobody wants to pick them up. I
also feel like the picture they chose does not do it justice. This
picture shows it better. It shows that they cover a several
different types of energy and that you can try and get it to all
of the different places. Some of the rungs look like power
cables.
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Courtney: What if they completed a circuit. What if you added the different pieces to complete the
circuit between the power source and a home?
Chris: My biggest fear with that is that we end up with another electricity bench. Too many components
and it is too complicated for most kids. Many of them struggle with building a simple circuit with just a
wire, lightbulb and switch.
Jack: Would it work to put the balls in tubes. Maybe use air to push it around.
Art: I think there a lot of questions about this exhibit and what could be done.
Brian: I think the logistics of trying to combine all of the exhibits could be a challenge
Beth: Maybe with bigger balls.
Overall the group was lukewarm to this exhibit idea.
#3
DeVane: This could maybe be our density exhibit.
Ryan: I think that it is trying to show conservation. How much you use during your day and trying to
balance that out.
Jack: I think that it would go over most of their heads.
Chris: Its not my favorite.
Ryan: I think most kids would find it boring.
#4 & #5
Chris: This is what I was thinking when you were talking about comparing energy with Geothermal. The
idea behind these two exhibits is as a group working to power a city. I think that you could allow a
group to make choices as to how to power a city.
Beth: I think that this offers a better sense of balance. If we are going to have a city, then it should be
Bismarck. It should also show rural areas.
Charlie: It should allow them to balance emissions and the cost of energy as well. There might be other
variables to have them look at. I would worry about it being too complex.
Courtney: I think that you could maybe adjust the level so it could be as easy or complex as needed.
#6
DeVane: The problem with the idea of an oil refinery exhibit is how do you make it interactive. We have
a model that of the refinery and it walks you through different parts of the process, but it is not hands
on. Plus the process gets complex really quick and it is by no means easy.
Ryan: Showing the distilling process could be pretty easy.
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DeVane: Yes. You could do a 3 minute demonstration and turn oil into gasoline or diesel. Again the
process gets complex so quick. You could try video interactions. I think that they would be so boring
that nobody would care to watch them. This is a tough concept to build and show.
Beth: Maybe it is a model and some sort of interactive video?
Brian: Depending on the level of complexity there are ways that you could show it.
DeVane: True. You could take a big jar full of crude and and one of gasoline or similar properties as it
and show the different viscosity.
Charlie: We could show a video of the process in the theater.
Beth: That is a possibility.
Brian: Maybe you could use those weighted PB jars to show the different weights?
Art: Maybe we could do three levels with Diesal, Gasoline, and ?
Brian: You could maybe have a wind tunnel with different weights of balls and they could all be poured
in together and then separated.
Beth: Maybe using different hoppers? But how do you explain it.
Chris: I think when you pour in your container of crud oil(different size balls all together) the exhibit
plays a short video explaining that part of the process. Then as it sorts the balls you can follow the tubes
to different stations on each product.
Beth: Maybe different colors to different ideas.
#7
Beth: I think we are already looking to incorporate this sort of graphic into the donor wall.
DeVane: You could also show flares.
Charlie: Pipelines and emissions
#8
Beth: Looks like a good exhibit.
Chris: The graphic is a nice clean image.
Art: This seems like it is already part of oil derrick
Pg. 27 – Only a few items were discussed as the group felt that this felt more like transportation.
#4
DeVane: Kids love cut away engines. Most people don’t know how an engine works and being able to
see the insides could help.
Charlie: I think that it is great as long as it moves.
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#3
Chris: I spent more time with this exhibit during our visit. I was not as impressed with it the 2nd time
around. It felt really straight forward and a bit too much like the press the button and observe exhibits
that have dominated our current space.
Charlie: I liked the hydraulics lab better. It felt like it encouraged exploration more.
#2
Chris: This one is similar to what we just proposed for the solar car. It just uses magnets instead of light.
I don’t think we have room for both.
There was general agreement to this statement.
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