MINUTES
Public Session
Washington State Bar Association
BOARD OF GOVERNORS
Spokane, WA
April 24, 2015
The Public Session of the Board of Governors of the Washington State Bar Association (WSBA)
was called to order by President Anthony Gipe on Friday, April 24, 2015, at 1:20 p.m., at The
Davenport in Spokane, Washington. Governors in attendance were:
Paul A. Bastine
Keith M. Black
Phil Brady
Mario M. Cava
Ann Danieli
Elijah M. Forde
Robin L. Haynes
Andrea S. Jarmon
Jill A. Karmy
Ken Masters
Jerry Moberg
Barb Rhoads-Weaver
Karen Denise Wilson
Also in attendance were President-elect Bill Hyslop, Immediate Past-President Patrick Palace,
Executive Director Paula Littlewood, General Counsel/Chief Regulatory Counsel Jean McElroy,
and Executive Assistant Margaret Shane. Governor Brad Furlong was not present for the
meeting.
LIAISONS, GUESTS, AND STAFF IN ATTENDANCE:
Geoff Revelle
Access to Justice Board, Liaison
Dainen Penta
Asian Bar Association of Washington
Lisa Dickinson
Asian Bar Association of Washington
Lynn M. Mounsey
Assistant Attorney General
Joseph Carroll
Attorney at Law
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April 24, 2015
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Penelope Rundle
Attorney at Law
Terry D. Gobel
Attorney at Law
Amina Fields
Attorney at Law, Amina Fields Law Office
Jerry D. Gobel
Attorney at Law, Gobel Law Office
Meng Li Che
Board of Industrial Insurance Appeals, Assistant Chief Judge
Vern Harkins
BOG Governance Work Group, Chair
Brooks Holland
Council on Public Defense, Chair
Bryan Russell
Court of Appeals
Emily Nelson
Court of Appeals
Robert Scanlon
Dellwo Roberts & Scanlon PS
Eowen Rosentrater
Eowen Rosentrater Attorneys
Kelsy Kittleson
Eowen Rosentrater Attorneys
Jean Cotton
Family Law Section Executive Committee
John Zeimantz
Feltman Gebhardt Greer & Zeimantz
Ashley Weyerts
Gonzaga University Law Student
Christina E. Clark
Guest
Alison Scott
Guest of Susan King
Daniel Ophardt
Guest of Susan King
Denise Southwell
Guest of Susan King
Katherine Fowler
Guest of Susan King
Laurie Wellington
Guest of Susan King
Marcy Chicks
Guest of Susan King
Rosey Thurman
Guest of Susan King
Dan Rey-Bear
Indian Law Section, Chair
Eileen Farley (phone)
Northwest Advocates for Justice
Jaquelyn High-Edward
Northwest Justice Project
Paul Dec
Northwest Legal Services
Rebecca Glasgow
Office of the Attorney General
Breean Beggs
Paukert & Troppmann PLLC
April Anderson
Real Property, Probate and Trust Executive Committee
Jody M. McCormick
Real Property, Probate and Trust Section, Real Property Council Director
Ketema Ross
Scott Law Group
Penny Youde
Spokane County Bar Association
Angel M. Base
Spokane County Bar Association, Solo and Small Practice Section, Chair
Jim Kaufman
Spokane County Senior Deputy Prosecutor
Jacob Brennan
Spokane County Young Lawyers Division, President
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Jennifer A. Gellner
Taxation Section and Solo & Small Practice Section
Sarah Cuellar
The Whipple Law Group
John Rodgers
U.S. Magistrate Judge - Spokane
Judy Massong
Washington State Bar Foundation, President
Nicole Angus
Washington State Bar Foundation, Donor and Community Partnerships Specialist
Favian Valenica
Washington Young Lawyers Committee
Helen Ling
Washington Young Lawyers Committee
Jeff Johnson
Washington Young Lawyers Committee
Kailin James
Washington Young Lawyers Committee
Megan Rue
Washington Young Lawyers Committee
Omar Nur
Washington Young Lawyers Committee
Paul Webber
Washington Young Lawyers Committee
Whitny Norton
Washington Young Lawyers Committee
Vincent Humphrey
Washington Young Lawyers Committee
Hollie J. Westly
Witherspoon Kelley
William M. Symmes
Witherspoon Kelley
Brian Rekofke
Witherspoon Kelley
Angela M. Hayes
WSBA 2015-2018 Governor 5th District Candidate
Gloria Ochoa
WSBA 2015-2018 Governor 5th District Candidate
Mark Kamitomo
WSBA 2015-2016 President-elect Candidate
Debra Carnes
WSBA Chief Communications Officer
Doug Ende
WSBA Chief Disciplinary Counsel
Megan McNally
WSBA Director of Advancement/Chief Development Officer
Frances Dujon-Reynolds
WSBA Director of Human Resources
Joy Williams
WSBA Diversity Program Manager
Robin Nussbaum
WSBA Diversity Specialist
Jean McElroy
WSBA General Counsel / Chief Regulatory Services Counsel
Sue Strachan
WSBA Legal Community Outreach Specialist
Stacy Holmes
WSBA Mentoring and Peer Networks Program Manager
Paris Eriksen
WSBA New Lawyer Support Specialist
Michael Heatherly
WSBA NWLawyer, Editor
Asmahan Akam
WSBA Seminar Developer, New Lawyer Education and Public Service Portfolio
Kiley Thornton
WSBA Senior Section Leaders Liaison
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WELCOME AND INTRODUCTIONS
Officers, Governors, liaisons, guests, and staff introduced themselves. President Gipe welcomed
the Board and everyone in attendance to The Davenport, in Spokane, Washington.
REPORT ON EXECUTIVE SESSION
President Gipe reported that the Board had Diversity Inclusion training, voted on
recommendations from the WSBA Awards Committee, and heard the Discipline Report, the
Litigation Report, the President’s Report, and the Executive Director’s Report.
CONSIDERATION OF CONSENT CALENDAR
Governor Rhoads-Weaver pulled item 6b. Admissions Work Group Recommendations from the
Consent Calendar in order to allow a guest to speak on the topic. President Gipe advised that
this item would be moved just prior to the Governance generative discussion.
CONSENT CALENDAR
a. March 19, 2015, Public Session Minutes
b. Admission Work Group Recommendations (pulled – moved prior to Governance discussion)
NEW: APPROVE PRESIDENT-ELECT OP-ED PIECE FOR THE SPOKESMAN REVIEW
Governor Brady moved to approve the use of “President-elect” in the Op-Ed Piece that
President-elect Hyslop wrote for the Spokesman Review. Motion passed unanimously.
WSBA President Gipe announced the Board meeting was recessed and handed the gavel to
WSBF President Massong.
WASHINGTON STATE BAR FOUNDATION (WSBF) APPOINTMENT – Judy Massong, President;
Megan McNally, Director of Advancement/Chief Development Officer; and Nicole Angus,
Foundation Donor and Community Partnerships Specialist
WSBF President Massong called the Foundation meeting to order. She thanked the staff and
Board who attended the Foundation’s donor reception the previous evening and expressed her
gratitude for their commitment and ambassadorship. She reminded the Board that it is the sole
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membership of the Foundation. She then referred the Board to the information contained in
the meeting materials and explained that the requested appointment would fill an open
position on the Foundation Board and that the person being recommended is a WSBA
Moderate Means Program student. WSBA President Gipe moved to approve the
recommendation. Motion passed unanimously. Governor Brady moved to close the WSBF
meeting. Motion passed unanimously. WSBF President Massong handed the gavel back to
WSBA President Gipe and the Board meeting reconvened.
PROPOSED AMENDMENTS TO COUNCIL ON PUBLIC DEFENSE (CPD) CHARTER – Brooks
Holland, Chair, and Megan McNally, Director of Advancement/Chief Development Officer
Chair Holland referred the Board to the information contained in the meeting materials and
explained that the proposal reflects several months of discussion by the CPD and an effort by
the CPD to balance two interests that have been identified: create the opportunity for including
more diverse perspectives and viewpoints on the CPD; and ensure important continuity, which
is especially significant with the turnover on the CPD due to term limits. He advised that the
CPD is recommending the Charter be revised to allow the CPD to make the three prosecutor
recommendations since the Washington Association of Prosecuting Attorneys (WAPA), who
previously made the recommendation, had withdrawn from the CPD; increase the number of
at-large positions to create greater flexibility in the nomination process; and create emeritus
positions in order to maintain continuity and historical knowledge, and to act as mentors and
advisors to new members. Discussion ensued regarding WAPA’s reasons for withdrawing from
the CPD; potential conflict of interest in prosecuting attorneys having input in how the
criminate defense industry is built; options if no prosecutors volunteer to fill the seats; whether
WSBA is the optimal place to house the CPD if the prosecutors do not participate or are not
actively represented; and the unnecessary precedent that would be set by creating emeritus
positions since many of the outgoing members who are heavily invested and will likely continue
to participate in the meetings regardless.
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PROPOSED BYLAW AMENDMENT RE NWLAWYER EDITOR – Michael Heatherly, Editor, and
Debra Carnes, Chief Communications Officer
Chief Operations Officer Carnes referred the Board to the information contained in the meeting
materials and explained the proposed Bylaw amendments. She noted that the Editor model has
evolved over the years and that the proposed amendments would allow WSBA to hire an inhouse Editor as a part-time staff person, which would result in a more effective and efficient
process for publication. She advised that an objective, independent voice would be maintained
by the Editorial Advisory Committee (EAC) Chair who would serve as an ombudsman in any
applicable situations. Editor Heatherly advised that he has been the NWLawyer Editor for eight
years and was not intending to renew his contract with WSBA beyond this year. He stated that
he agrees with the proposed amendments since the majority of the work the Editor does could
be done more efficiently by staff, but that there is a need to have a voice in the editorial
process who is not an employee of WSBA. Concern was expressed that the outside voice was
not well-defined in the proposed amendments.
ADMISSIONS WORK GROUP RECOMMENDATIONS – Jean McElroy, General Counsel/Chief
Regulatory Counsel
This item was pulled from the Consent Calendar by Governor Rhoads-Weaver and discussed at
this time. General Counsel McElroy noted that this item has been discussed at several Board
meetings and explained the background and process of deliberations by the Work Group. She
referred the Board to the information contained in the meeting materials and explained the
differences in the proposed amendments since the last Board meeting. She noted that the
amendments currently being proposed have the unanimous support of the Work Group.
Christine Clark spoke on behalf of the recommendations. Governor Karmy moved to approve
the suggested amendments to APR 20-25 relating to the character and fitness of applicants for
admission to the practice of law in Washington, and to approve the related changes to the
questions on the admissions application. Motion passed unanimously.
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CONTINUED DISCUSSIONS OF WSBA GOVERNANCE STRUCTURE – Vern Harkins, BOG
Governance Work Group, Chair
Chair Harkins referred the Board to the information contained in the meeting materials and
reviewed each of the Task Force recommendations discussed at the previous Board meeting.
President Gipe stated that it was the consensus of the Board that it approves the responses
contained in the meeting materials. He then opened the floor for questions on any of the
Governance items in the materials to date. Discussion ensued regarding the selection and
criteria for the proposed public members on the Board, and the relationship between the
Executive Director, the WSBA, and the Supreme Court. It was noted that some of these items
are being handled with the Court through amendments to GR 12.2.
WASHINGTON NEW AND YOUNG LAWYERS – Vincent Humphrey, Chair; Governor Robin
Haynes, Liaison; and Paris Eriksen, New Lawyer Support Specialist
New Lawyer Support Specialist Eriksen iterated the context and background for this discussion,
and explained the composition of the planning team. She noted that two issues have been
brought into focus for discussion: debt load and unemployment; and the objective is to listen to
what the new lawyers have to say on these issues and what role they envision the WSBA can
play in addressing these issues. President Gipe reminded the group that there is a wealth of
staff present at the meeting who are subject matter experts on this topic. Chair Humphrey
explained that a survey was done and robust discussion held in preparation for this discussion.
Governor Haynes referred the Board to the information in the meeting materials regarding law
school costs, average debt incurred, and rates of employment.
Discussion ensued regarding WSBA’s role and responsibility, if any, in the debate regarding
student loan debt. Suggestions included: invite law schools to engage in conversations around
lower tuitions; reduce debt load in exchange for working in clinics; loan repayment assistance
vehicles; lobby Congress to lower interest rates on student loans; offer credit for pro bono
work; expand Washington state law clerk program and provide other opportunities for
education outside of law school; institute a requirement that Washington law schools must be
accredited by Washington state and must meet certain criteria, including affordability; provide
a forum for law schools to discuss solutions; provide debt clinics, debt counseling, loan debt
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calculator on the WSBA website, and partnerships with debt counseling companies; and focus
on community building, support, resource building, and networking.
The time between graduating law school and taking the bar exam was noted as an additional
expense burden and suggestions included doing away with the Bar exam if it is felt the law
schools are doing their job; allow the Bar exam to be further out from graduation or allow it to
be at the end of the 2L year; reduce the exam fee, license fee, and application fee; and increase
what the Bar is providing through New Lawyer Education.
Executive Director Littlewood explained that WSBA previously had a Loan Repayment
Assistance Program (LRAP) that was handled through the Foundation, but it had to be
terminated due to lack of funds when the major donor, Sallie Mae, was no longer able to
contribute. She noted that fundraising related to new lawyer debt load is difficult because the
issue does not resonate with people who have the capacity to donate since they sometimes
feel current students are being irresponsible in taking on such large debt loads. She advised
that there are currently good federal LRAPs and all three Washington law schools have LRAPs;
she suggested a webpage on the WSBA website be created containing this type of information.
She advised that after the ABA Task Force on the Future of Legal Education, the ABA has formed
a new task force that is currently looking at financing law school and their report is expected to
be finalized in August 2015. She stated that the job of law schools is to make students ready to
learn in practice, not make them practice ready, and the WSBA formulated the New Lawyer
Education (NLE) program to fill this need by giving new lawyers free and low-cost information
related to practice.
General Counsel McElroy noted that there are numerous steps the WSBA has taken to address
the needs of new lawyers, including: the NLE program; reduced-fee CLE programs designed for
new lawyers; Legal Lunchbox free CLE programs; reduced license fees for year of admission plus
two full years thereafter; extended reporting period for new lawyers’ first MCLE requirements,
with all reporting due at the end of the time period; one free section membership to help new
lawyers find a section that can assist them in their practices; the Law Office Management
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Assistance Program (LOMAP), which provides many resources for new lawyers whether they
are moving into existing practices or setting up their own new practices; debt counseling and a
job search group through the Lawyers Assistance Program (LAP); a payment plan for license
fees, if requested; and a one-time hardship license fee waiver if the member qualifies based on
income. She advised that staff is working to disseminate other information. She concluded by
noting that the ABA-approved law schools, including the three Washington law schools, are
now permitted to offer Bar exam prep courses to their students as part of their curriculum.
Discussion then ensued regarding WSBA’s role and responsibility, if any, to unemployed and
underemployed new attorneys. In response to an inquiry regarding tracking employment of
new lawyers, General Counsel McElroy advised that WSBA does not track the employment of its
members and does not require any of its members to provide employment information, nor
should it because, if it were mandatory, members who did not comply would have to be
suspended. Suggestions included a survey of participants on the New Lawyer listserv; the WSBA
doing a survey of all members since employment information is necessary in order to focus on
retention; creating law firms that bring in unemployed new lawyers to work with experienced
lawyers willing to supervise them in order to help those in the middle class who cannot afford a
lawyer; funding New Lawyer Education to its full potential; adding more employment-related
information to the WSBA website; and making existing information easier to find. Executive
Director Littlewood noted that JobTarget, a site where lawyers can post their resume and
employers pay to view the information, and now containes a place to sell and buy practices,
was implemented on the WSBA website three years ago. Chair Humphrey urged the Board to
make time for an additional generative discussion on this topic in the near future.
President Gipe noted that the debt issues currently being dealt with by new lawyers will affect
the health of the profession for years to come and thanked the participants for being an active
new lawyer group.
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ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business, the Public Session portion of the meeting was adjourned at
4:45 p.m. on Thursday, April 24, 2015.
Respectfully submitted,
Paula C. Littlewood
WSBA Executive Director & Secretary
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