Interchange Conference Transcript
I:\DIWE5NET\CLASSES\kwong01\CHAT\Violins
[Message #1 11:15:39 AM, Tuesday, March 01, 2011]
karen wong:
Note that Marlowe’s poem is about a shepherd courting a lovely lass (949), and that Raleigh’s
poem is her response (948). (a) If you are writing about Marlowe’s poem, how does the
shepherd try to entice “his love”? If you are writing about Raleigh’s poem, how does she
respond? (b) Note that a poem often has natural breaks through topical shifts. Instead of
writing about each stanza, focus each of your paragraphs on your understanding of each of
these topical shifts. Consider the specific word choices and their associations, symbolism,
metaphors, similes, allusions to other literary works, persons, places, or events, oppositions,
and/or the poem’s biographical or historical background. (c) From your interpretation, what
insights do you gain about this courtship?
[Message #2 11:39:22 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Katie Rivette:
Sir Walter Raleigh's "The Nymph's Reply to the Shepherd" is a response to the
Shepherd's love note or request to have the nymph come live with him. In the Shepherd's note
he discusses how if she would come live with him he would give her all these things and that
they would live happily ever after. However, the nymphs response to the shepherd is that she
had no need or want for the materialistic things he has to offer her, "Thy gown, thy shoes, thy
bed of roses… all these in me no means can move to come to thee and be thy love" (Raleigh
949). She does not want to be bribed in order to make her decision to come live with him. The
nymph truly believes in genuine true love as a force that should bring two people together. Her
response basically goes something along the lines of : I do not want to be with you for the
things you can give me, but because of your love for me as we grow old together as long as we
both shall live.
[Message #3 11:39:42 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Erika Medina:
First off I just want to speak a little of the title. I interpret the beautiful maiden replying
to the teacher or the one who tends to the nymph.
Honestly, I had a hard time understanding the two shepherds poems but what I
understood from the breaks of stanzas was…The author goes from saying she would live with
the men or "shepherd" if he wasn't such a liar. To complaining to him what he has done/has
happened? She starts to explain to him in seasons of change that things fall apart and get cold.
Basically that thing's get old and fall apart that as time goes by things are bound to fall apart or
die and be left alone. This all ties to the last break which goes on with her saying if youth lasted
forever she would accept his proposal. Therefore, I conclude that the "nymph" is scared. She is
scared to take a chance a leap to love. She feels that being young and in love is the rush and is
the reason to why you feel love. She is scared that as time goes by things will fall apart. Or
worse she will lose him by either loosing love for one another or death.
[Message #4 11:39:55 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Dayna Hernandez:
In Marlowe's poem, "The Passionate Shepherd to His Love," the shepherd tries to entice "his
love" by telling her to come live with him and be his love. They will have many pleasures in live
together. He goes on describing rivers and beds of roses and is being very romantic with his
words. He says he will get anything she wants for her such as, "a gown made of the finest wool,
which from our pretty lambs we pull" (950) etc. Then goes on to say, "if these delights thy mind
may move, then live with me and by my love" (950). He's saying if you like what I'm saying, then
come with me and by my love.
In Raleigh's poem, "The Nymph's Reply to the Shepherd," she says many of the same things he
does, but she says things such as "time drives the flocks from field to fold, when rivers rage and
rocks grow cold" (948). She means that sometimes love runs out and things begin to come to an
end after a while. "Flowers do fade, and wanton fields to wayward winter reckoning yields… Is
fancy's spring, but sorrow's fall" (948). More of "things will end at some point."
From my interpretation, this courtship is between a man and a woman he wants to be with.
He's trying to sweep her off her feet by telling her all kinds of sweet, romantic things for her to
take his hand in marriage.
[Message #5 11:40:09 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
karen wong:
I love the nymph's reply (Raleigh). From stanza one, she immediately questions the veracity of
his claims by presenting the conditional, "If… *there was+ truth in every shepherd's tongue (line
2). In other words, she can't assume he's speaking the truth; while he sees an idyllic life in the
country, she recognizes that it will be a life filled with hardship. That idea is reinforced in the
second part of her conditional within the first stanza, "If…all the world and love were young
(line 1). So much about the shepherd's courting is filled with images of spring, of youth, of a
youthful love, but she questions whether or not that is the actual case. If it was, she might be
moved "To live with thee and be thy love" (line 4), but since it's not, she's not buying it!
In the next stanza, she sets up a contrast between the shepherd's perspective and her own, his
an infinite youth while hers is of limited time and aging, and his an idyllic springtime while hers
is of winter. After all, they're not living in a tropical paradise; instead, they'l l likely be
confronted by extreme conditions during the other seasons, whether that be the heat of
summer or the cold (and likely shortage of food) in the winter. She remarks, "Time drives the
flocks from field to fold,/ When rivers rage and rocks grow old" (lines 5-6). In contrast to his
image, which is all about hanging out in the fields watching the flocks while birds sing, she
points out the inclement weather, as noted in the need to bring in the flocks, and the churning
river that is likely due to lots of rain. They're hardly the "shallow rivers" that the shepherd
invisions(Marlowe line 7).
[Message #6 11:41:58 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Dayna Hernandez:
Soooo... These two poems are probably my favorites along side "The Unknown Citizen," but I
really didn't know what to even say about them. For me, it says everything. I hardly have any
annotations because i didn't know what to say.
[Message #7 11:42:31 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Dayna Hernandez:
I just think they're really sweet. =]
[Message #8 11:42:37 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
karen wong:
Start off with any associations you have with references they make, Dayna. Or cite lines that
appealed to you: why do they appeal to you?
[Message #9 11:42:50 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Kayla Aung:
There is a hint of sarcasm in Raleigh's poem. "If all the world and love were young, truth in
every shepherd's tongue" saying if only they were all real then she would run to him. Words
such as "youth" and "every" kind of send out an idea of impossibilities. In reality, time is going
to change things and "when rivers rage and rocks grow cold," all the promises will be lost in the
complaints. Nothing is eternal. Just as the flowers fading, the beauty of her will fade away one
day and by then there will only be sorrow left. All the promises and romantic things that he
offers will look witty by then. If only love could grow and youth can last, she will love to be with
him.
[Message #10 11:43:52 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
karen wong:
Dayna, you've got lots of good points in message #4. He does offer to secure her all of these
things-- anything signficant about what he says he's going to get her? What are they made of?
[Message #11 11:45:12 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
karen wong:
Keep going, Dayna and Kayla. We get a good sense of what the shepherd is offering, but how
does the nymph respond in kind? What oppositions are present?
[Message #12 11:45:44 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Erika Medina:
Now, i just want to share what interpreted from lines..
"thy gowms thy shoes"... reminds be of a wedding until the end where she says, "soon break,
soon wither," so she shows and describes happiness but end is with oh by the way its going to
end sooner ot later
[Message #13 11:47:08 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Katie Rivette:
All of the things he says he is going to give her are rich and lavish things. Things that
steriotypically all women want, "Gowns, Shoes of gold, beds of roses."
[Message #14 11:48:10 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Katie Rivette:
but she doesnt want these things cause she knows they do not last forever, instead she wants a
love that lasts forever.
[Message #15 11:49:47 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Dayna Hernandez:
He says he's going to get her, "a gown made of the finest wool... fair lined slippers... with
buckles of the purest gold, a belt of straw and ivy buds, with coral clasps and amber studs"
(950). They're all valuable things in those days.
What oppositions are present? ... The nymph is saying, "thy gowns, thy shoes, thy beds of roses,
thy cap, thy kirtle, and thy posies, soon break, soon wither, soon forgotten- in folly ripe, in
reason rotton" (949).
[Message #16 11:50:12 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Erika Medina:
an i feel its kind of ironic how at the Beginning she says yeah if what you are saying is true and if
there was truth behind everything you said then i might consider you proposaland these "pretty
pleasures you speak of" followinf up with but everything falls everthing break everything
withers and get old to imagning a wedding to destroying it to saying well if only..
[Message #17 11:51:08 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Katie Rivette:
" But could youth last and love still breed....Then these delights my mind might move to live
with thee and be thy love," meaning if your love is truly genuine and breaks all the rules about
it fadding with time then yes i will be your love.
[Message #18 11:52:19 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Kayla Aung:
@Erika..............she says if only there were young, ......so she was saying if only they were true,
then i will be with u
Interchange Conference Transcript
I:\DIWE5NET\CLASSES\kwong01\CHAT\Ukeleles
[Message #2 11:39:21 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Collette Yee:
The Nymph's Reply to the Shepherd, is a title that immediately gave me some meaning to the
poem. It is obviously a reply to the offer of love from the shepherd, but the word nymph makes
me think of a luring promiscuous woman. The way it starts with, "If all the world and love was
young, and truth in every shepherd's tongue," it sets up conditions, like she is not just accepting
the offer but saying if everything he said is true and what she adds on then she will be his love.
Then she makes it sound as if she could never be his love. Because of the fact that the world
and love can never be young, she explains examples of time passing and ageing. The second
stanza is about night and the birds changing their actions. Then you get an image of death
where she says, "The flowers do fade, and wanton fields to wayward winter reckoning yields,"
showing the flowers which first symbolized his love, dying over time. All of the offerings she say
will, "soon break, soon wither, soon forgotten," again displaying time ruining their love. She
sets up this theme of time with the season, spring being flourishing and winter being death. The
reply also says, "All these in me no means can move to come to thee and be thy love," and
although a little tough to interpret the way this author writes, it sounds like she is saying: all the
gifts and luxuries do not mean anything to her and does not convince her to be with him. Then
it ends with, "but could youth last and love still breed, had joys no date nor age no need," says
that, if love didn't have and end and if her dream of forever happiness existing was true, then
she would except his love and live with him. That all that he offered would appeal to her. But
since it doesn't, she cannot accept. It seems very negative and a downer to the beautiful poem,
The Passionate Shepherd to His Love.
[Message #3 11:39:40 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Mabel Ye:
She basically rejected him. She doubts that he can keep all that he promises. For everything
that the shepherd says, she pretty much has a comeback. The Shepherd sees the world as a
pretty place with flowers (maybe meaning they will have a beautiful life, careless life).. but she
sees things more realistically. He says that they can sit on rocks and watch shepherds feed their
flocks.. but she said that eventually, time will make the flocks leave and that the rocks will be
cold and the tide will come in. He speaks of making a bed full of roses, but she turns that down
by saying all flowers eventually die. I think in this poem, she is looking at the bigger picture.
The shepherd is blinded by love and he thinks everything will be all good. She knows better. In
the last stanza, she talks about youth lasting and "no date nor age".. then she might be with
him.This sounds like it is saying if she doesn't get old.. and don't have things to worry about,
she may be with him.
[Message #4 11:40:03 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
karen wong:
I love the nymph's reply (Raleigh). From stanza one, she immediately questions the veracity of
his claims by presenting the conditional, "If… *there was+ truth in every shepherd's tongue (line
2). In other words, she can't assume he's speaking the truth; while he sees an idyllic life in the
country, she recognizes that it will be a life filled with hardship. That idea is reinforced in the
second part of her conditional within the first stanza, "If…all the world and love were young
(line 1). So much about the shepherd's courting is filled with images of spring, of youth, of a
youthful love, but she questions whether or not that is the actual case. If it was, she might be
moved "To live with thee and be thy love" (line 4), but since it's not, she's not buying it!
In the next stanza, she sets up a contrast between the shepherd's perspective and her own, his
an infinite youth while hers is of limited time and aging, and his an idyllic springtime while hers
is of winter. After all, they're not living in a tropical paradise; instead, they'l l likely be
confronted by extreme conditions during the other seasons, whether that be the heat of
summer or the cold (and likely shortage of food) in the winter. She remarks, "Time drives the
flocks from field to fold,/ When rivers rage and rocks grow old" (lines 5-6). In contrast to his
image, which is all about hanging out in the fields watching the flocks while birds sing, she
points out the inclement weather, as noted in the need to bring in the flocks, and the churning
river that is likely due to lots of rain. They're hardly the "shallow rivers" that the shepherd
invisions(Marlowe line 7).
[Message #5 11:40:35 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Marvin Lampa:
The shepherd tries to "entice" his love by sweet talking and basically putting it all out on the
table how he wants to take her hand in marriage and court her. He explains the pleasure of
being in love with him. The way he described things is as if they would be in paradise when they
are together; in a valley, on the hills, etc. He makes it sound so relaxing and perfect. Makes it
sounds so romantic when he say he will make the bed of flowers, also makes it sound as if they
will be rich by saying the "buckles of purest gold." The marriage that is being put out to her is
almost as if it was too good to be true. After saying all of these things, he finally says, "If these
delights thy mind may move, Then live with me and be my love. He put everything out, and
after saying all these things, he is saying if you have these images of wjhat he described in her
head, come with me. The lady was probably so dazzled and amazed but what this man can do,
that it's almost impossible for her to say no. He uses a tactic of making everything seem so
perfect, but in reality, it may not actually be like that, it could be all talk to get the girl that he
wants, and it might suggest to me that he Is bribing her with all these materialistic things which
may lead to her falling in love with his wealth not himself.
[Message #6 11:42:02 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Thomas Pham:
He tries to entice his love by saying that he will make his love a skirt made out of flowers and
wool. He will make her a belt out of "straw and ivy buds, With coral claps and amber studs"
(950)
This line is repeated a few times throughout the poem. "…live with me and be my love," (949950). The setting seems to take place in the 1600's. The time period that poetry, Literature and
plays were becoming more and more popular.
From my interpretation from this poem's courtship this story is about being love struck and will
do anything to please your future lover. The shepherd will do anything just to get his girl to love
him no matter what the cost.
[Message #7 11:44:30 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Marvin Lampa:
It's funny how this still goes on today
[Message #8 11:45:19 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Marvin Lampa:
Everyone flashes there money and wealth but for what? To showoff and get the attention so
that people will like them, but in actuality they like there wealth and all that
[Message #9 11:45:24 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Collette Yee:
The reply almost makes the shepherd almost sound ignorant, because of the fact that he sees
all this beauty and she sees the truth that everthing has an end
[Message #10 11:45:31 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Marvin Lampa:
I don't know if that actually counts for anythin haha
[Message #11 11:45:58 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
karen wong:
Good points, Thomas, about how he woos her, one being the things he'll provide her. All, what
type of life does the shepherd promise her?
[Message #12 11:46:56 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Thomas Pham:
He promises a life of luxury and riches that he does not have.
[Message #13 11:47:17 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Collette Yee:
Maybel: you pretty much had the same interpretation as me, that he is being rejected
[Message #14 11:47:19 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Mabel Ye:
He promises her a carefree positive lifestyle. He is very optimistic and doesn't think things can
go wrong
[Message #15 11:47:23 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
karen wong:
Whoops, I didn't see Marvin's message #5. This rural, simple paradise is referred to as "the
pastoral"-- what about his description makes it so relaxing, all?
[Message #16 11:48:05 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Collette Yee:
The life that the shepherd promises is carefree and luxurious when in reality life isnt always like
that
[Message #17 11:48:08 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Marvin Lampa:
He says "The shepherd's swains shall dance and sing" for example, it technically cannot actually
happen, so he makes it sound like a cinderella story
[Message #18 11:48:10 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Thomas Pham:
Do you think he is being phony just to please her or he just talking big to think he richey rich?
[Message #19 11:48:23 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
karen wong:
Good points, Mabel-- which lines led you to those retorts?
[Message #20 11:48:25 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Marvin Lampa:
Which obivously is fictional
[Message #21 11:49:22 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Thomas Pham:
He is like in denial and is blinded by "fake" love.
[Message #22 11:50:09 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Collette Yee:
Thomas: In the reply, she thinks that he is being phony, that if there was truth in what he was
saying then she could be with him.
[Message #23 11:50:41 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Thomas Pham:
Money can buy you anything but a possible girlfreind i do not think so. What do you guys think?
[Message #24 11:51:20 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Marvin Lampa:
All these materialistic things decsribed just push her away she want TRUE REAL love. For
example, what is more meaningful, "Fair lined slippers fot the cold," or being next to eachother
being eachothers warmth?
[Message #25 11:51:51 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Thomas Pham:
Do you really think money can buy you a girlfriend?
[Message #26 11:52:13 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Marvin Lampa:
If he described it that way with more compassion and effort that is being put it, as opposed to
the money that is being spent and put in, I think there is a better chance of him being with her
[Message #27 11:52:57 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Thomas Pham:
It seems like according to the shepherd's "lover" she is accausing him of being a big fat lier.
[Message #28 11:53:30 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Collette Yee:
its not the money that she is concerned about, there is nothing that shows her being motivated
by wealth, i think the theme is more about time which is why they talk about the passing
seasons
[Message #29 11:53:48 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Mabel Ye:
I don't think she is accusing him of lying, I think she just doubts that it is possible
[Message #30 11:54:27 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Mabel Ye:
yeah I agree with collette, she is sayin how time changes things and that everything will not
always stay the same
[Message #31 11:55:11 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Marvin Lampa:
Yeah that is true. Like things can only stay perfect fpor so long, and when things go bad, then
what?
[Message #32 11:55:12 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Thomas Pham:
The Nymph is wondering if she does leave with him. Will she be satifsied with the living
conditons as the seasons pass. I agree with Collette also.
[Message #33 11:58:34 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Collette Yee:
She makes it sound impossible for her to love him because she sets up these conditions that
can never happen.
[Message #34 11:58:47 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Thomas Pham:
She is also wondering will their love last long enough and have children also? Will she be
forever young as in immortal as well if this love is possible?
[Message #35 11:59:31 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Mabel Ye:
She sounds pretty pessimistic
[Message #36 11:59:51 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Marvin Lampa:
Possible because he has previously been hurt?
[Message #37 12:00:02 PM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Mabel Ye:
Especially since they use they word "nymph"
[Message #38 12:00:11 PM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Thomas Pham:
She did say this "But could youth last love still breed,"(949)
[Message #39 12:00:29 PM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Thomas Pham:
Man out of time!!
[Message #40 12:00:54 PM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Thomas Pham:
:(
[Message #41 12:01:13 PM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Thomas Pham:
cya everyone.
[Message #42 12:02:24 PM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Thomas Pham:
He tries to entice his love by saying that he will make his love a skirt made out of flowers and
wool. He will make her a belt out of "straw and ivy buds, With coral claps and amber studs"
(950)
Interchange Conference Transcript
I:\DIWE5NET\CLASSES\kwong01\CHAT\Mandolins
[Message #2 11:39:09 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Evelyn Ibanez:
The shepherd tries to entice his love by asking her to come live with him and share with him all
the pleasures that await in the hill, mountains etc…He is basically beckoning her to live a
carefree life with him, I think that all the references to the flowers would be because it's spring
time, usually spring is associated with love, the Bambi movie pops into my mind.
I saw it when my kids were little and in that movie in the spring all the flowers are blooming
and the animals are falling in love and looking for a mate
When he mentions the gowns made of the finest wools and the lined slippers he is using these
things to tell if she goes with him she will be well off, he will make sure she is taken care of
financially. He will also keep her entertained, she won't be bored, he says how the shepherds'
swains shall dance and sing for her each morning, even though I'm kinda confused about what
the shepherds' swains means, I looked up swain and it means an admirer. Does that mean that
his admirers, other girls that are after him will keep her entertained?
They are both young, will live a carefree life, loving each other, living in comfortably well off.
He says come live with me, I don't know if that implies he wants to marry her because he is not
proposing, just asking her to come live with him. Does he just want a little fling with her?
Nothing long lasting? If that's the case sounds a little bold for the time. All the pleasures prove,
what pleasures is he refering to?
[Message #3 11:39:58 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
karen wong:
I love the nymph's reply (Raleigh). From stanza one, she immediately questions the veracity of
his claims by presenting the conditional, "If… *there was+ truth in every shepherd's tongue (line
2). In other words, she can't assume he's speaking the truth; while he sees an idyllic life in the
country, she recognizes that it will be a life filled with hardship. That idea is reinforced in the
second part of her conditional within the first stanza, "If…all the world and love were young
(line 1). So much about the shepherd's courting is filled with images of spring, of youth, of a
youthful love, but she questions whether or not that is the actual case. If it was, she might be
moved "To live with thee and be thy love" (line 4), but since it's not, she's not buying it!
In the next stanza, she sets up a contrast between the shepherd's perspective and her own, his
an infinite youth while hers is of limited time and aging, and his an idyllic springtime while hers
is of winter. After all, they're not living in a tropical paradise; instead, they'l l likely be
confronted by extreme conditions during the other seasons, whether that be the heat of
summer or the cold (and likely shortage of food) in the winter. She remarks, "Time drives the
flocks from field to fold,/ When rivers rage and rocks grow old" (lines 5-6). In contrast to his
image, which is all about hanging out in the fields watching the flocks while birds sing, she
points out the inclement weather, as noted in the need to bring in the flocks, and the churning
river that is likely due to lots of rain. They're hardly the "shallow rivers" that the shepherd
invisions(Marlowe line 7).
[Message #4 11:40:17 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Nayeli Molina:
Raleigh's response to Marlowe's poem in my opinion states how the couple will be happy and
so in love when they first start dating that they won't really have a care in the world but that it
will all eventually fade and they will be faced with reality. When they mention the flowers that
fade I thought it symbolized how love is like a flower and at first it's pretty and fresh but it will
eventually wither. She also says that the gowns and shoes and everything else will soon break
and be forgotten. Again it shows how their love will die out. In the end I think it means how if
they could all be young forever then everything that was mentioned in Marlowe's poem would
convince her to actually date him.
[Message #5 11:40:40 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
nhi to:
The poem begins with the nymph questioned the love that proposed by the Shepherd.
Although moves by his proposal she wants him to reassure her that his love will last through
time. There is a hint of distrust in her tone about why should she believes him as in "and truth
in every shepherd's tongue" as she acknowledge the constant evolve of time in this world
including physical and feeling. Time and beauty in this poem can be seen in the change of
season and nature, such as: flowers do fade, winter reckoning yields
[Message #6 11:41:17 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
gabriela gerson:
Marlowe
To entice his love, the shepherd describes and offers her all the wonderful things of the world.
He describes the pleasures of the world. The shepherd goes on and on about the things they
will do "and we will sit upon the rocks, seeing the shepherds feed their flocks, by shallow rivers
to whose falls melodious bird sing madrigals."(lines5-8) The singing birds mirror his passion.
The shepherd only offers her the pleasures of the world. He only offers her grand gestures. " A
belt of straw and ivy buds, with coral clasps and amber studs: and if these pleasures may thee
move, come live with me, and be my love." (17-20) He offers her no contrast none of the "bad
stuff", the tension , that makes life more interesting.
[Message #7 11:43:42 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Crystal Lam:
The title of the poem is about the girl's response to the invitation the shepherd gives her to be
his love. In the poem she responds by saying that his promises can't be made because time
changes time. She tells him the reality about his assumption about how love and lovers don't
remain young. There's a lot of literary devices in this poem alliteration- ex: "flocks from field to
fold"
repetition of initial consonant sounds- ex: "flowers" and "fade", "wayward" and "winter",
"spring" and "sorrow", "fancy" and "fall". The girl's tone changes to wishful in stanza 6. She
wishes the world was immortal. She saying that if they did remain young forever then she
would go live with him and be his love.
[Message #8 11:44:12 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Evelyn Ibanez:
I think that the fact that he is not proposing and just listing all the positives is because what he
wants is just to hook up, no real commitment, he is not thinking of the future just enjoying the
moment, she is more practical. He is thinking ahead and how they won't be young forever.
[Message #9 11:45:19 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Evelyn Ibanez:
I meant she is thinking ahead and how they won't be young forever. She is looking at his
proposal as something more than what it appears to be.
[Message #10 11:45:21 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
nhi to:
Yes, I do see that Nayeli. Physical material will fade in time as the ever changing in season, will
the love that the sherpherd inticing withstand the test of time?
[Message #11 11:47:48 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Crystal Lam:
@ Evelyn I think that the way the shepherd thinks is like fantasty. He sees everything so perfect.
The girl is more into realtity. She is telling him that they won't be young forever and that things
will die and fade away.
[Message #12 11:48:24 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Nayeli Molina:
i agree with what evelyn said about how he's not really looking for a commitment. the girl is
more realistic.
[Message #13 11:48:33 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Evelyn Ibanez:
The shepherd seems to be a bit immature, still playing the field not ready to settle down.
[Message #14 11:49:57 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
karen wong:
interesting points about the flowers fading as a reflection of their love also fading (Nayeli's
comment #4)
[Message #15 11:50:39 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
karen wong:
One important observation is the spring versus winter imagery-- which lines illustrate those
oppositions? what inferences can we make from those lines?
[Message #16 11:51:25 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Evelyn Ibanez:
@cyrstal: You are right, he is not being at all practical, the shepherd is living in the moment, he
is young and care free, only thinking about having fun. She is looking ahead.
[Message #17 11:55:54 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Nayeli Molina:
when i think of spring i think of sunny weather, flowers everywhere, bright colors, overall spring
represents happy to me. winter on the other hand is gloomy and cold and overall sadness. the
seasons naturally change throughout the year so i think the spring vs winter symbolizes how
they will be happy but as time progresses they will be less and less happy.
[Message #18 11:56:11 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Evelyn Ibanez:
The spring is referenced throughout the shepherds poem with the sing of birds, many
references to flowers, like the bed of roses and the fragrant posies, cap of flowers, etc...In the
response she refers to the rivers raging, signifying storms, wind rain, the rocks will get cold,
flowers fading and withering, winter reckoning fields,
[Message #19 11:58:15 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Crystal Lam:
"To wayward winter reckoning yields; A honey tongue, a heart of gall, Is Fancy's spring, but
sorrow's fall." She telling him that there relationship will be like spring nice like flowers in the
beginning and then it'll eventually be like winter. Everything will soon start to fade away.
[Message #20 12:00:13 PM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Evelyn Ibanez:
She wants him to think about the future and about whether he will still feel the same way, feel
the same love when it's not spring time anymore and day to day reality sets in and they deal
with all the problems and complications of life.
Interchange Conference Transcript
I:\DIWE5NET\CLASSES\kwong01\CHAT\Guitars
[Message #3 11:35:48 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Joe Tecson:
Just looking at the title, it's referring Nymph as a god or a deity or just a female figure and a
shepherd to one of its believers/followers. A shepherd is to care for the land and its
environment to be able to attract one's attention, such as the nymph's. Poem implies that love
is old and that everyone lies, so she has no reason to believe in what the shepherd's
perspective about love. The shepherd sees love in a way where the nymph doesn't agree. All
the flowers and birds will not influence the nymph to fall in love with him - "all these in me no
means can move to come to thee and be thy love" (949). It basically says that the nymph
refuses and says no to love the shepherd, in any condition or circumstance. If the shepherd can
prove to the nymph that love will last and continue with no end, then maybe, just maybe, she
will fall in love with him.
[Message #4 11:39:41 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Russell Hanssen:
The nymphs reply to the Shepherd is repeated back in the same rhyme scheme and cadence as
the initially proposed question but using antithetical concepts. The shepherd proposes that he
will give her material things and keep her comfortable while the nymph replies asking for
assurances of intangibles.
The nymph begins by questioning the truthfulness of the shepherd's claims in the first stanza.
"If all the world and love were young, and truth in every shepherds tongue." Then she says that
if these things were true what he promised might be enough.
The imagery in the second through fourth stanza shifts to that of time passing and things that
were once beautiful withering away. "The flowers do fade, and wanton fields To wayward
winter reckoning yields" using winter and autumn ideas, such as withering and growing cold, to
oppose the spring and summer vernacular that the shepherd uses.
The final section revisits the first in that the nymph recalls that the concepts that the shepherd
uses to entice her are fleeting, but that were love and age eternal that she might consider him,
effectively shunning him since fleeting concepts such as youth are by definition impermanent .
[Message #5 11:39:50 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
karen wong:
I love the nymph's reply (Raleigh). From stanza one, she immediately questions the veracity of
his claims by presenting the conditional, "If… *there was+ truth in every shepherd's tongue (line
2). In other words, she can't assume he's speaking the truth; while he sees an idyllic life in the
country, she recognizes that it will be a life filled with hardship. That idea is reinforced in the
second part of her conditional within the first stanza, "If…all the world and love were young
(line 1). So much about the shepherd's courting is filled with images of spring, of youth, of a
youthful love, but she questions whether or not that is the actual case. If it was, she might be
moved "To live with thee and be thy love" (line 4), but since it's not, she's not buying it!
In the next stanza, she sets up a contrast between the shepherd's perspective and her own, his
an infinite youth while hers is of limited time and aging, and his an idyllic springtime while hers
is of winter. After all, they're not living in a tropical paradise; instead, they'l l likely be
confronted by extreme conditions during the other seasons, whether that be the heat of
summer or the cold (and likely shortage of food) in the winter. She remarks, "Time drives the
flocks from field to fold,/ When rivers rage and rocks grow old" (lines 5-6). In contrast to his
image, which is all about hanging out in the fields watching the flocks while birds sing, she
points out the inclement weather, as noted in the need to bring in the flocks, and the churning
river that is likely due to lots of rain. They're hardly the "shallow rivers" that the shepherd
invisions(Marlowe line 7).
[Message #6 11:40:50 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Crystal Plascencia:
Marlowe'S Poem
In The Passaionate Shephard To His Love, in the first stanza the Shepherd invites his love to
come with him. The Shephard pleads with an unidentified woman that if she will come and live
with him, then all pleasures will be theirs for the taking. He tries to convince the women to go
with him and that he will give her everything. " And I will make thee beds of roses and a
thousand fragrant posies, a cap of flowers and a kirtle" the shepherd invites his beloved to
experience the joys of nature. In each stanza the shepherd promises the women different
things. The setting of the poem plays a major part in my understanding of the poem the setting
is in a rural setting and gives the reader the idea of innocent and romantic love. The poem is
static in time, with no history or clearly defined future in the poem Only the present matters.
We never hear the response of the women in this poem
[Message #7 11:41:10 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Joe Tecson:
i like how you viewed the opposition of the seasons, russel
[Message #8 11:43:55 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Russell Hanssen:
It seemed to me that the diametric oposition of the seasons was what was really playing out.
the spring and summer wanting to last forever but fall and winter coming along to push them
out.
[Message #9 11:44:52 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Russell Hanssen:
Having a nymph act as the one doing the rejecting was interesting though since nymph
generally conotes wanton of flighty
[Message #10 11:45:07 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Regina Solleza:
In "The Passionate Shepherd to His Love" by Christopher Marlowe he courts a woman by asking
her to come live with him. He tells her all of the positive outcomes that she will get out of living
with him and marrying him. If she says yes to his proposal, he lets her know that she will not be
disappointed with all of the things that he offers her.
The shepherd tries to persuade her to come with him by offering her things that he thinks will
swoon her. "A gown made of the finest wool which from our pretty lambs we pull; fair lined
slippers for the cold, with buckles of the purest gold..." (950). He tries to bribe her with
material things to make assure her that he can provide her with the finest things. In the last
stanza he basically says that if she likes all that he offers and accepts his proposal, he will be so
happy that he gets the woman that he loves.
[Message #11 11:45:36 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Joe Tecson:
Reg: we doin the Raleigh's nymph story lol
[Message #12 11:46:04 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Russell Hanssen:
joe everyone got a different one
[Message #13 11:46:05 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Regina Solleza:
Joe: I was assigned Marlowe's poem hah
[Message #14 11:46:08 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Joe Tecson:
oh, never mind
[Message #15 11:46:19 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Joe Tecson:
shoot.. ok.. MODED
[Message #16 11:46:22 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Crystal Plascencia:
some of us got the other one
[Message #17 11:47:04 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Joe Tecson:
ok so anyways, i notice that the nymph describes all the good things about the shepherds love
and environment but she still refuses him
[Message #18 11:47:46 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Russell Hanssen:
she is just saying that what he has is nice and all, but not good enough for her
[Message #19 11:48:03 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Joe Tecson:
i was just bout to say that.. i agree
[Message #20 11:48:26 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Crystal Plascencia:
he promises many things to her that seem romantic but why doesnt she accept it?
[Message #21 11:48:38 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Russell Hanssen:
she also infers that she thinks that he is B.S.ing
[Message #22 11:49:05 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Russell Hanssen:
she want's something eternal not temporal.
[Message #23 11:49:10 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Regina Solleza:
Because she doesn't want to be bribed into marrying him. She wants more?
[Message #24 11:49:17 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Joe Tecson:
towards the end, the last stanza implies that the love is not good enough for her. She knows
that love ends somewhere down the road, but if she is proven that it will last and keep going,
then she'll stay
[Message #25 11:49:32 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
vincent ho:
Dang, I messed up. I accidently read the wrong poem online (I don't have my Reader with me). I
was supposed to be working on Marlowe's poem, and from what I can tell, he wants to entice
his interest with gifts of pleasures to have her experience joy and a life filled with jubilance.
[Message #26 11:50:16 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Joe Tecson:
so, hes not ready for a commitment i assume?
[Message #27 11:50:23 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Russell Hanssen:
she kind of says that love would be goodenough IF it lasted forever
[Message #28 11:50:37 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Joe Tecson:
shes down for a long term, but she knows that its not what he can give her
[Message #29 11:50:52 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Russell Hanssen:
exactly
[Message #30 11:50:59 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Crystal Plascencia:
i think that since the shepherd is forced to continue with a more promises, the the shepherd’s
initial offer was not well received.
[Message #31 11:51:05 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
vincent ho:
weak, then his attempts love is ruined
[Message #32 11:51:15 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
karen wong:
Good point, Joe, in #28-- which lines illustrate her doubt?
[Message #33 11:51:27 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Joe Tecson:
like she says at the end "had joys no date nor age no need"
she wants something that doesnt "expire"
[Message #34 11:52:19 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
vincent ho:
and what will that be?
[Message #35 11:52:31 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
karen wong:
How does the shepherd's conception of their lives together differ from the nymph's? Which
lines led you to those conclusions?
[Message #36 11:52:35 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Russell Hanssen:
" thy cap, thy kirtle, and thy posies Soon break, soon wither, soon forgotten"
[Message #37 11:53:54 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
vincent ho:
Its going to be hard to comprehend if one hasn't read the other poem
[Message #38 11:54:20 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Joe Tecson:
lines 13 to 16 shows that she sees that "thy beds of roses, etc... soon break, soon wither, soon
forgotten"
[Message #39 11:54:33 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Joe Tecson:
oh haha russell just saw that
[Message #40 11:55:31 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Crystal Plascencia:
" and if these pleasures may thee move, come live with me and be my love"
[Message #41 11:56:27 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Russell Hanssen:
the shepard tries to convince the nymph with material goods and promisses of happiness. "And
ifthese pleasuresmay thee move...be my love"
and she replies with " All these in me no means can move"
[Message #42 11:56:29 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Joe Tecson:
5th stanza shows that no matter how young these things can be, it will end and die off later on,
so it doesnt mean anything to her... age is nothing to her.. its just a number..
[Message #43 11:56:31 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
vincent ho:
i would say that the shepherd's perception is delusionally living like a dreamer. He entices her
using the fantasies as an end to his means
[Message #44 11:57:16 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Russell Hanssen:
I think that the shepherd honestly thinks it's gonna be good times forever. the nymph just
knows better.
[Message #45 11:57:49 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Joe Tecson:
so, the nymph is not a fool
[Message #46 11:58:02 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Joe Tecson:
in basic terms, shes a woman who knows better than men..
[Message #47 11:58:17 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Crystal Plascencia:
yes i agree
[Message #48 11:58:18 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
vincent ho:
and because of his delusions and fantasies, he fails how to do things realistically in reality
[Message #49 11:58:37 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Joe Tecson:
kind of goes back to the poem about "MEMO".. how women should not be allowed to fall for
the man's foolishness
[Message #50 11:58:46 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Russell Hanssen:
Joe: if we're taking the poem to mean an actual nymph then she would be semi immortal and
have seen others come and go
[Message #51 11:59:02 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
vincent ho:
like a goddess?
[Message #52 11:59:04 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Crystal Plascencia:
yea most of the things the shephard say are fantacy and the nymph sees the reality of things
[Message #53 11:59:26 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Joe Tecson:
yeah.. a nymph literally is a goddess/deity
[Message #54 11:59:38 AM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Joe Tecson:
so she does see the truth of all things.. knows better than him
[Message #55 12:00:00 PM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
vincent ho:
he cant deal with his situation if he goes on dreaming of his goal
[Message #56 12:00:06 PM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Regina Solleza:
and he thinks that bribing her would work
[Message #58 12:00:23 PM, Wednesday, March 02, 2011]
Joe Tecson:
good talk