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Santa Clara Law Digital Commons
Rosetta Stone v. Google ( Joint Appendix)
Research Projects and Empirical Data
2-23-2010
Vol. IX, Tab 47 - Ex. 36 - Deposition of Nino Ninov
(Rosetta Stone Vice President - Strategic Research
and Analysis)
Nino Ninov
Rosetta Stone
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Automated Citation
Ninov, Nino, "Vol. IX, Tab 47 - Ex. 36 - Deposition of Nino Ninov (Rosetta Stone Vice President - Strategic Research and Analysis)"
(2010). Rosetta Stone v. Google (Joint Appendix). Paper 102.
http://digitalcommons.law.scu.edu/appendix/102
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ORIGINAL
D~STRICT
1
I N TBB UNITED STATES
2
FOR THE EAST-ERN DrST-R ICT OF VIRGINIA_
3
4
COURT
Alexandria Division
~--- - - - ---- ----- - - ---- -- - - - - x
ROSETTA STONE LTD,.
5
Plaint i ff,
6
Civil Action No. : 1:09CV136 _
GBL/JFA
v.
7
GOOGLE,
INC.
I
_8
Defendant.
9
----~-----~-~ - -------------~x
10
depos~t-i::ln
The 30(b) (6)
11
of ROSETTA STONE
12
by NINO G .
NINOV was - held on Tuesday,
13
February 23 ,
14
Offices of Sk.adden,
15
LLP, -1440 New York Avenue,
16
before Amy-E.
17
Notary Public for the District o f
2010, commencing at 9:11 a.m . at the
~_rps·,
Sikora,
Slate, "Meagher
Wash~~gton( .
&
Flom,
D.C."
RPR, CRR, CSR-NY, CLR,
Columbia.
18
19
20
21
22
REPORTED BY :
Amy E.
Sikora,
RPR,-
CRR ,
CSP.- NY,
CLR
23
24
25
Jcb No.
CS242161
Veritext Corporate Services
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....
•
i
to
2
briefly · start ing. >lith col.le·ge:.
\-l h y do n 't He just review your educati.on
My first degree is in
Sure .
A.
3
4
sociology,
5
Un i ;,Tersi ty .of Sofia.·
~bcicl~gy
master's in
My- -
6
Q.
When did you
7
.A.
198.9.
8
degr·ees kir;d of,
9
a
l~ttle
less,
from the
I ha.ve
gradua~e
tHO·
from there?
othe.r associate:
they're not exactly b.achelor ' s,
o n e in financial management,
10
another · one in accDuntirig ,
11
b~siness
12
adm.inistration from the Darden School of
.i-'
Busi::H!SS ,
Q.
14
,-".
.degree,
UV.A,
n;·aster ' s
afid then I have a
in business
Universi·ty of Virginia.
And what year did you get the MBA?
2003 .
Q.
16
17
Wh a t
about the .associate ' s deg r ees
and financial degrees?
18
A.
That
\-{a~
19
Q.
Wh i t
schools wer e those from?
A.
They were from the Un i versity of
20
194 ,
'95
sorn~where .
I
21
j t~o·rld Economy, Wo·rld Economics_
I don ' t
remember
22
the exact neme r ·. but that ' s
23
university specializing in economics , business,
24
ii·nance.
25
Q.
Is
that whe r e
the biggest Bu l ga r ian
you grew up?
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2.
Q.
Ri.g ht.
4
A.
Yes.
5
Q.
How long ' have you lived here?
6
A.
I
T
Q.
How l ong have you been >l i th
S
Rosetta ' Stone?
9
A.
five y'ea~sr sin~e 2004.
10
Q.
'Wha't
3
,
grew up- in Bulgaria.
1
I
But you speak English very
I<ell.
I
hope s'o .
I
v'e lived here for 11
r
s
the name of your
ye-ars now.
. j
.employe~?
i
!!
i
\
I
11
Is it Rosetta stone or is there a different
12
of the' entity?
13
A.
It "s .Rosetta Stone.
14
Q.
Okay.
nam~
,
.'
15
16
Befo-re joini 'ng ' Rosetta Stone.
where were you employed?
A.
Well,
befo r e Roset ta Stone I worked
17
for t.h'e Marine Corps,
18
Se r vices,
19
r e ,s ea:rch analyst. ,
20
s chool,
Q.
l'1arine Corps Comr.nini ty
at Quan t 'icc.
I was their senior
And before that I was in the
business school, 'fo r two yea!s .
Okay.
your first job
So work i ng at Quantico was
a~te~
A.
Yes .
Q.
-- ' busine~s
A.
First job after the business school .
school?
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11
.
-.
I
Q.
1
(Discussion off. the record.)
2
Q.
3
4.
Who did you report to as the senior
research an:al yst?
5
P••
I was
~eporting
to one of the
6
directors at the t"larine Corps Commun i ty Service.
7
_ just 'can't recall her
Q.
B
9
Q.
right now.
What types of analysis
actua~ l y
market research .
Was t.hat .y o,ur first exp.erience doing
market research?
A.
13
14
That's okay .
Well~ ' itfs
11
1,2
na~e
did YGU do there?
. 10
)
All right .
No.
Ilve done market research
befo:t:Ci.
15
Q.
Te+l me ab.out tr.e o.ther time.'
16
A.
Wefl,
when I
graducted in sociology
17
from the University of Sofia,
18
1ittl... later after this I
e little'-- just a
started doing market
19 ' research for a Bulgarian company that was founded
29
by some' of ,m.y colleagues,
They invited me to
21
22
and I was a partner with
. 23
whi l e.
24
rna :c ket
25
actuall}'_
thi~
~ork.
with
them~
company for a
So that was my first t ime, and I did
r:;search .
Q.
What was the
nam~
of th2t company?
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2
Q.
Could you sr:>el l that, please?
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1"-
N-O C, E- l~ - A
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Q.
Ho\\~
5 ,. NOE1~A
1'1arket 'J:est?
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.\
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~
....
. Market
Test .
many years were you with
f'~ell,
mean.~ .
I
str i ctly working for
7
the company ,
8
that and ' after -- before I really start with them
9
full time and after t hi s on project basis,
10
basica.lly.
11.
thr~~
.12
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Harket Test.
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about a year, ' b-.1t more time before
So a total,
years,
maybe more.,
Q _
trJere you, .emp loye~ b'y another company
a l i t t le more.
after you -worked there?
I
startep my own business.
14
A.
No.
15
Q.
Okay.
16
A,
Until I
17
would say, of .at. least
!
carne to the U·.S.,
r ",'as
doing my own stuff.
18
Q.
All right.
19
A.
Well,
What .. was your business?
it was seve r al different
One of t.hem "'as a wholesa'le trade ' \yi th
20
things.
21
'confectionery
22
production , manufacturing of
23
call it here is cheese puffs.
1
cand y .
The
othe~
~~
one was
I think what you
24
Q.
Okay.
. 25
A.
So I was making this and I was
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s. ell~ng
it in the country tl:ere.
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us,
if they
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record .
wan~
MR. ETTINGER:
A.
,
I
I
Wall,
11
my -- I've done a
12
overlap,
so
che~se
busin~ss?
pu.ff manufacturing
10
Welcome ".
And how long were you in this
Q.
8
.'
I -am Eman Sojoodi of
SOJOODI:
Quinn Emanual for " GO"Qgle.
7
9
And someonets jOined
identify themselves for the
~o
I'1R.
5
6
ETTINGER :
about
fiv~
And some of
years.
SQm~
lot of things.
I've been tiQ i ng two,
'of them
ihree things at
13 "the same time.
i t around 1998
~hat
stopped in .1998,
yes,
14
Q ..
Was
15
A.
I
16
Q.
Okay . .. What was the name of the
17
you
business?
1.8
A.
Well, ' it's lng ,
19
Q.
After firrishing with I-N-G,
20
A.
lng.
21
Q.
-- lng,
22
A.
I
23
Q.
Were you
24
flo
Yes
25
several jobs.
c~me
I
My
what
I-N-G.
Ing
you did do .after that?
to the U. S.
em~loYEd
when you got here?
I Has employed .
Engl~sh
~as
I changed
real bad;
I mean,
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the record,
2
ques.tions the ;way they' r.e >lorded, 'you should,
3
if
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-inform"at'ion in your .question or some"thing that ·
7
- Can
. A.
10
.'
(
':-~)
~ake
.:..
cp'n
I .
Bu t . Vie· do want to
sure you can answer the question she's
as.ked .
That's right .
Q.
I ' ll ask a different
question.
Earlier you referenced that i t often
13
more than one visit
14
tak~s
15
Rosett~
16
that corrEct? -
17
A.
Yes.
18
Q.
Do
19
repeat the question?
MR. ETTINGER:
11
12
y~ u
I ' l l do my best.
try.
8
9
and
can"' t, .you should tell ' her· yo.u need mere
'}'OU
6
and so if you .can . answer 'her
fo~
a visitor to
Stone to decide to make a purchase; . is
)tOU have
an
u"nders tanding of how
many visits i t typically takes?
20
A.
Not exactly_
21
Q.
Generally, .do you?
22
A.
Generally '.
ItT's not about visits.
23 " That's why I
~ahnot
24
Q.
.Ii 1 1" ri ght. "
25
A.
Itls about overall research that you
answer your questio n.
Veritext Corporate Services
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973-410-4040
6417
96
i
d0 .
2
weeks to make a.
3
produc t,
4
wi thin the first three do.ys .
5
p erce ntag e that do it within t h e first hour.
6
'I' h'e y do. ~t like this
7
do
a
sou rces 4
3
can g::> do some sear"ch aro und.
I
know that on average
t~i ST
dec~sion
to -bu y a langu a ge
that 25 percent of
~he
( i ndicating).
websi · t~,
.,
But they can
from different
the other websites.
So thatls why the
:0·
people do it-
There are certain
col·lect in for mation,
th e
takes two to four
j,t
They·
is not
qu~stion
exc.c ;:.ly --
Q.
:3
Right.
I understand now.
That 'Vias
h elpful.
,
Do you have
~n
understanding' of
_S
what - - what custqrners are thinking of that
!6
drives their decision to purchase,
th~y
:3
that", someti mes
can do i t in an hour and sometimes,they want
Lo . spend two to thr ee weeks?
.3
IL
. Yes,
I
do .
I have understanding .
exp~ain
Q.
Can you
A.
It's partly " personality.
1
p~cple
3
:t's othe r
Some
are just good at making quick decisions.
th~ngs
related to income and how
Expensive the pro duct i?r
~eople
that to me?
price.
It's alse some
like doing mo re resea"rch.
Ve.ritext Corporate Services
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In gene,ral,
1
2
it's ,the cqmplexity of
the l'anguage-.learning products.
It's' fairly·
' 3. difficult to understand whether a " product ' works,
4
and especially for you,
or maybe doesn't.
;
5
Q.
R~gh
6
A..
So' that ·' ·s VihYr
,,
t
: l '.,
'-'I
-
t.
usually the buying
7
decision r
8
not ·t hat .c heap·
not. that expensive ,
9
want to ·know that
you'~e
even though some of these products are
10
\-lith something,
11
little
but you
not wasting your ' time
and tn2:t·'
di~ficult
Q.
12
..
5
Hhy the decision is a
in general.
..
_
Do you have an understanding of what
13
types of information t he consumer looks for
14
before m'a king a purchase decision?
.i
)
A.
15
16
Yes.
It may not be exhaustive,
what
I knoH --
17
Q.
Sure.
18
A.
-- but if I
19
mean,
20
yes.
that's the short ·
~nderstandr
y.es.
I
to your question,
anS~ve =
.:..
21
22
23
24
25
Q.
Okay.
What is your understanding
based on?
A.
Oh,
itls based
research that I -have ' done in
Q.
Okay.
~nd
0:1
the years of
th~
.a rea.
wh at is your
Veritext Corporate Services
800-567-8658
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6419
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98
1
understanding ' of what factors you look at? ."
A-. _
2
.So the . first and most important
is t~e product effective.
People
3
fact6r is,
4.
needs to answer this question ..
5
goin.g to teach me,
6
not .
7
been the number one criterion that people use to
8
ma~e
am I
Is this thing
going to learn with it or
Then -- in all of our studies, that -has
their
d~ci~ions.
Then it's a lot and -- it's a very
9
10
difficult decision to make,
11
decide whether a product is effective or nQt i ,f
12
you canno t
i3
of the making this decision· basically is do you
14
trust this company or you don't,
15
becomes a huge thing here.
17
So a big, big -- a big pa£t
use it.
I mean ;
16
because how do you
Th e brand tells - -
so t"he brand "
the brand conveys trus t .
the brand is a shortcut to
18 ' a n SHe r all these question s .! basica'lly.
going to learn l"fith '
!o9
effective r
20
i t .
2~
t.rusts . t his brand:
People use it.
Dep artment uses i t I
et cetera, et cetera.
Well,
is i t good_
Is it
Am I
everybody knows this brand, everybody
The State
So the brand is a center
--
...
cent erpiece here in answer,ing this question,
•
:"h a t! s wh y building the bra'nd equity and th e
•
and
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brand is so important for any company but
2
espec~a l 'ly
for a c.ompa ny in our area.
Q. .
. .3
Are, ttrere
othe~
'4 ·consumers ·look to ·to'make a
,i .
,.
,
(
!
"5
effectiveness?
6
.A . .
·7
.-
l ook
--
tl)..ings t hat
deterrn i n~ tio n
they may look at
-We l l f
as to
t;hey do
yes, . the·y do .
8
Q.
What are thos e things?·
9
A_
The other things that they may look
10
'at is reviews·,
11
"amazon . .com or other place.s '.
12
may
~ook ' at
commen t s
that Q·ther people make on
_~ndf
of course,
th.ey
other pzoducts, go to other websites.
13
The interesting thing is when we do
14
this re,search is that the Rosetta stone brand is
15
so dominant that for 95
' 16
are in the process l
~ercent
of
t~e
people who
it's the dominant brand.
17
ItTs the number one brand in their consideration
18
se.t,
19
only brand .·
and f o r
a huge number of peop le ',
20
Q.
21
effecti~ene s s,
22
eqlli~y,
All right.
the
So in determining
the t rus t, . as you --
lL
Uh-huh.
24
Q-
,- -
~described
about the product,
(
I
consumers will consider the bra ~ d
23
25
it s
it; 1,ook at comments
comments abo ut 'other products,
Verite:a Corporate Services
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and go to other produ c ts'
2
A.
Yes .
3
Q.
-- 'and look at them.
Are there a I'ly other things th'at
4
5
)
"lebsi tes --
awa re: of consumers doing to --
youl~e
6
A.
Yes.
7
Q.
Okay.
8
A.
They're --, they can test drive the
9
product.
v~hat
are tbose?
10
Q ·0
HoW do they do that?
11
A.
Res.etta Stone has a demo .
Ther:e ' is
There is- a demo on a CD
12
a demo on the website .
13
that people can request,
l~
see what
15
learning and actual usage of the product in order
16
to decide that it ' s the .rLght thing . for them.
1-7
and they can actually
the product is about,
Q. ,
do a little bit of
Any other ways that they determine
18
effectiveness?
1"9
A.
Well,
now'they do because w~ have
20
cO,nducted effectiveness studies by third - p:arty
21
independent studies .
22
webs i te so anybody can go and see and decide for
23
t hemselves .
24
25
- Q,
~e
publish them on our
Are there ,any other things you can
think of a consumer might do to help determine
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effEctiveness of a product before purchase?
A.
2
Oh,
I
~e3n,
3
mouth .
4
web, 'at cetera,
5
with friends:
6
here.
definitely the direct word of
.r
mentioned the reviews on the
but face - to - face,
family,' cQl~eagues plays a big' role
7
Q.
l>.nyth ing else?
8
A.
l'1ell,
s~idf
9
word "cf mouth
they -- I
I mean,. as I
people dl'
mean,
res~arch
itfs ' about the
10
process that. they go t hrough.
I mean /
11
the 'Neb.
~hey
12
results of these searches ,
13
one way in which they --
,14
informa t ion the r~
They do searches and
~
15
",
tr-ey go on
look at the
of cours?,
~hey c~n get
and tha .t
f
s
to
~
mean,
~
search about·
16
Rosett~
17
links that -- I mean,
if you1xe t horou'gh,
18
through all of them.
You see whai they say ·about
19
Rosetta Stone.
20
reviews.
21
companies that compare themselves to us.
22
0
f
Stone,
y~u
if you do
hit hund r eds and thousands of
There 'are articles.
There are comments.
The"J::e -are
:rhe,re are other
Plenty
information.
23
Q.
Right.
.24
A.
And unfort-un'ately,
p~ople
25
you go
that pretend theyfre , us,
the'Ie are some
but theyfre not.
Veritext Corporate Services
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102
i
Q.
lOU
had identified effectiveness as
2
the number one concer:1 th:=.t pu·rchasers have - -
3
potential purcna,sers ha.ve ~
What other concerns do they have in
4
5
making .a decision to purchase a language product?
So
A.
6
t h~y
rook at also things like
7
spee d of learning,
8
product .
9
convenient is that for me .
10 ' price,
how fast I can learn with the
They look at convenience, how.
They look in
of
t~rms
how exp=nsive is this.
They look at the . flexibilit y that
L
:2
th.e product gi ·,es them in terms ·of determining.
13
kind of
~<
what
eK~ctly
:5
p~ck
things.
16
curricul um
-~
So these are factors_
:S
.S
deci . d.~ng
--
their own pace and aleo deci ding
sornetirns~ .
They don't want to go through the
d es~gned
I
some people want to
by the
expe~ts
step by step.
The ability - - tQ what extent the
proQuc "C provides. ·the opportun,ities f o r
2~
conv ersatio nal practice,
2:
: 0 = yo u tD kind of check your right pronuncia t ion
22
or
3
dif feren t
'f iords.
speaking and the ability
Thatls a big thing,
too .
Sometimes people pay a lot of
C· aLtentio n to things like
inncvativ~ness.
They
"=.nt. to kno\v if your product. is innov:ativ2.
If
Verite>:.t Corporate. Services
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6424