Wednesday, 12/9:
3) Greek Women: What were their Expectations and Achievements? - How did these
various Greek women respond to the expectations, limits, and/or opportunities their
society imposed on them? How much did they achieve?
PENELOPE - Women - Dutiful wife – waits patiently & loyally – weaves burial
shroud for her father-in-law – deceives the suitors – not certain that Odysseus is who he
claims when he returns – accepts the sexual double standard of her society – does manage
to hold the kingdom together in her husband’s absence – raises Telemachus – then listens
as he finally asserts himself
Penelope – Women 1) - Penelope from Homer’s, Odyssey, is a very smart and strategic
character. Her cunning and persistence allows her to be a loyal woman. Odysseus had
been gone for around 20 years and many believe that he will not return. She strongly
believes in being loyal. Penelope pushes back the suitors many times. She will do what
ever it takes to wait for her husband. These expectations forced upon the Greek women
have helped Penelope wait. They have made her the strong and cunning women she is
and with these expectations have given her the ability to wait. Penelope achieves her goal
when Odysseus finally returns home. 17/20
Penelope – Women 2) - In Homer’s The Odyssey, Penelope is expected to be loyal while
Odysseus is with multiple women on his journey home. She does stay loyal and even
buys Odysseus more time when many suitors are attempting to marry her. It takes her
husband over 15 years to return home and then there is still the time he is at war, but
regardless of this, she is loyal to him. Also, everyone says he is dead and that he wont be
coming back, even her son doesn’t expect him to come back, but she is loyal. Penelope
did not achieve much, but she does manage to not marry one of the hundred suitors trying
to marry. Society imposed the expectation that she would not cheat on her husband while
he was cheating on her, but she remains loyal and obeys what people expect. 18/20
Penelope – Women 3) - Greek women were not expected to state their options, be seen
out of the house, and they were supposed to be very loyal and respectful to their husbands.
In the Odyssey, Penelope, Odysseus’ wife, did just this. She stayed very loyal and did not
cheat on Odysseus throughout his long journey, even though for all she knew, he could
have been dead. She had many chances to cheat on him with the suitors and she did not,
even though Odysseus was not loyal to Penelope multiple times. When Odysseus finally
made it home, Penelope stayed with him, despite the many women Odysseus cheated on
her with. Penelope was a great example of a Greek women, mostly how they are
supposed to stay faithful, and respectful in their relationships. 18/20 – also mention
Telemachus
Penelope – Women 4) - At this time in history, Greek women were expected to stay very
loyal to their husbands no matter what the consequences. When Penelope's husband,
Odysseus, disappeared to war she did not hear from him for twenty years. In the
meantime, suitors stayed at her house trying to steal her heart and become her husband
but she denied them all. Penelope had many opportunities to do what most people today
would do; be unfaithful. However, she kept faith that her true love would one day return
and did not let anyone take her heart. When her husband came back, she did not have to
be ashamed for cheating on him. Penelope had the upper hand and was able to question
Odysseus on what he had been up to the past twenty years. Odysseus probably felt very
shameful when he returned back to see that his wife had stayed loyal and he has cheated
on her more than once. 18/20
Penelope – Women 5) - Penelope was the ultimate of Greek housewives. After her
husband left for troy not to return for 10 years she stayed faithful until her husband
returned. Through the coming years she and her son kept Ithaca from collapsing. She
stayed strong when her husband left, and then her son. Odysseus returned with his son
and they both killed all the suitors. With intervention from the gods Ithaca was returned
to what it should be. 17/20
HELEN - Women
- Most beautiful woman in the world – she becomes a prize to be
fought over – was literally the prize Aphrodite gave Paris in the beauty contest among the
goddesses – not faithful to her husband Menelaus – goes to Troy with Paris – not clear
whether she has been kidnapped and raped – or whether she chose to run off with him –
Feels some devotion to both men – twice in The Iliad calls herself a “bitch” and blames
herself for starting the destructive war – shows a lot of scorn for the cowardice of Paris
before his fight with Menelaus – she shames him into fighting – but Aphrodite keeps her
in line – In The Odyssey she lives happily back in Sparta with Menelaus – her faithfulness
is renewed – Women as objects in Greek culture
Helen – Women 1) - Helen, the most beautiful women who roamed the earth, was stuck
between a rock and a hard place. As a housewife in Greece (Sparta)... and Troy, there
was absolutely nothing that she could do to voice her opinion or explain how she felt.
While her husband (Paris) and ex-husband (Menelaus) were out at war fighting one
another, all Helen could do was remain locked up in her chambers waiting for her
husband to return home. When her husband returned from war, she was expected to do
whatever he wanted to do with her. She had one job, do any and everything her husband
wanted; whoever that may be. For Helen, there was no public protesting, or voicing her
opinion (but she certainly did so in private – until Aphrodite told her to shut up and deal
with it!). Although Helen's life might have been bland and, for lack of better words,
lifeless. She was the reason for there being a Trojan War in the first place. She
presumably took some blame for that all the while knowing that there was nothing that
she could do. No one saw anything wrong with the way she was being treated (Actually
Priam was very sympathetic to her) because that is how all women like her were treated.
Helen was treated as a prize possession, or something that should be won. Instead of
treating her like a true human being that should be respected. 19/20
Helen – Women 2) - Helen, the most beautiful mortal on Earth, suffered brutal
consequences as a result of her hypnotizing looks. As many people claim her to be the
cause of the Trojan War, like all women in this ancient time period, Helen had no say in
the decisions made in her life. Her role in society was to remain charming and to please
all that Menelaus demanded from her. It was not until the helpless woman was captured
by the Trojan prince, Paris, that she was given a purpose, and that was the motivation for
soldiers to fight. The incalculable amount of pain and death that resulted in the war, left
Helen ruined with guilt. She witnessed man after man brutally killed and felt responsible
for the innocent people who perished at the cost of her living. Citizens from both the
Greeks and Trojans developed a burning hatred for Helen, as people lost children,
spouses and relatives to the chaos. Despite the popular blame on Helen, the Trojan War
was a result of conflict between men, and as usual, women were dragged in and suffered
the consequences. Though she achieved little to nothing in her lifetime, Helen is a model
to the helplessness of women and the sad titles which they were given. 20/20
Helen – Women 3) - Helen is the most beautiful woman on Earth and is the wife of
Menelaus before the Trojan war. She is expected to be a good wife like other Greek
women. However, her look makes her the cause of the drawn-out Trojan war and all the
incalculable pain. She actually has no choice about her fate as the gods have already
decided it all and mortals are only their playthings. She is the victim of the conflict
between the three goddess, and it is in fact their jealousy towards each other causes the
war. Helen blames herself when she witnesses the deaths on both sides. Even though
Priam tells her it is not her fault, but the goddess’ , she calls herself a bitch. Her
extraordinary beauty does not bring her a better life, but makes her an obvious object to
blame on. 18/20
Helen – Women 4) - Helen, the former wife of Menelaus and the fairest mortal woman
there is, is tormented throughout this entire long going struggle for her love between
Menalaus and Paris. of course not only is it bad enough that there was a war started over
her, but it is being overlooked by the Gods. Helen is trapped in the little game of the
Gods. Like all women in her time, Helen has no say in her fate. She either allows the
Gods and everyone to fight over her and toss her around or she kills herself. Even though
she was such a high class citizen, being the woman that she was, she still had no right in
anything about her life. It was almost as if she was cursed with being born into the family
she was while being a woman because so many died just for her against her own will. In
general, women of that time period were treated like garbage in the sense that they had no
rights at all. They were almost like slaves. 17/20 (mention her relationship to Menelaus
and Paris – and Priam)
Helen – Women 5) - Helen, she is victim of the goddess, Aphrodite. She does not have
to choice to choose her fate. She is a puppet of the gods, and she marries Paris at the
command of the gods. During the Trojan War, Paris loses the fight against Helen's former
husband, Menelaus. Since then, Helen thinks that Paris is a coward who does not deserve
her love. At this point, we could see that the women back in the time of Trojan War love
men who have good skills in the battle. When the Troy falls at the army of Greece, Helen
goes back home with her former husband, Menelaus. For Helen, she does not really have
to choice to choose her fate, and she sometimes blames the gods. However, none of this
will help because Helen is a woman. Back in that time, women are supposed to do
whatever men told them to do. They could not speak up their minds, and their thought. I
think that is what the Iliad and Odyssey are referring in the character of Helen. 19/20
SPARTAN WOMEN - Women
- Responsibility to produce healthy warriors for the
state – must be willing to give up sons at birth (unhealthy babies thrown off the apothetai),
at age seven (as they go to train at the agoge), or for battle. Must instill and uphold the
courage of their sons and husbands – they honor the brave and shame the cowards –
Enjoyed much more freedom than in other societies – sexually and politically – could
take on lovers outside of marriage in order to produce offspring – could speak publicly
and engage in business – received physical and intellectual education – lived separately
from their husbands for most of their marriage
Spartan Women 1) - Spartan women, one of the first women allowed to participate in
public life, contribute to the city, and having an education, played a major role in Spartan
society. They were seen everywhere and took part in physical activities like Spartan men
would. Although they did have unusual marriage rituals, the men and women lived
separate lives. The Spartan women contributed to the city by working many different
occupations. They were treated as equals, unlike the Athenians, and were educated like
the men. Many people saw Sparta as unusual and out of the norm for women in most
countries were never seen and stuck to their duties of cleaning the house and pleasing the
men. Spartan women proved these expectations right in competing against the men and
acting like they were equals to the men while achieving a lot for the women of Sparta.
17/20
Spartan Women 2) - Spartan Women, although they were unaware of it at the time,
were true pioneers on the subject of female equality and achievement. They were the only
female members of any ancient society who were treated equally with men. The Spartan
society expected a lot of its women, presenting them with both opportunities and limits.
Like their male peers, Spartan women were expected to maintain physical prowess, and
their education included much more than just the usual lessons in cooking and cleaning,
although marriage and childbirth were considered important parts of their lives. Spartan
women were presented with the opportunity to participate in the city’s social and political
dynamic; Sparta was the only place in the world where women were not scrutinized for
speaking their minds. Unlike any other civilization of the time, Sparta allowed women
the opportunity to go out in public and function independently without a husband or other
male figure. Women in Sparta flourished under their uniquely free lifestyle, responding to
their opportunities with accomplishment and to their limits with a typical Spartan
hostility. 18/20 – good, but discuss responsibilities to the state – had to produce warriors
and keep them brave!
Spartan Women 3) - Spartan women had “freedom.” Although we may not see it as
freedom, it was as much freedom as you could get as a woman in the Greek world.
Spartan women were able to wed whoever they wanted, and they were not demanded to
stay in the house at all times. The women were also expected to do household chores (no
– slaves did chores for them). The women of Sparta had a voice in the general assembly
and they had the ability to vote (not literally – they could speak up on political topics but
were not voters or direct participants in the Assembly). Spartan women were of the first
women in ancient Greece to have the ability to vote. In Sparta the women actually had
more freedom and less responsibilities (but discuss the responsibility to bear and to raise
sons to be warriors) than the men. Spartan women were given opportunities to have a life
of their own. 15/20
Spartan Women 4) - Spartan women played an important role in their society as a birth
giver and an educator. Since Sparta prioritized the army’s strength and power, they
needed women to be a supporter for their son and husband. This increased women’s
social status and they were expected to participate in different things. They learned
wrestling, javelin, singing and dancing as they grew up. They were also taught how to
speak in public, since they needed to learn how to speak in front of others as an educator.
Also, they were allowed to have freedom of choice unlike most of the women at that
time. They could choose whether to marry or not (yes, but they did not have a choice
about whether bear children), and whom to marry. 18/20
Spartan Women 5) - Spartan Women were like no other in ancient Greece. Overall, they
had more power than the men. Sparta was one of the first civilizations that allowed
women to speak and participate in public and to receive an education. These women were
the complete opposite of Athenian women who were rarely let out of the house. Spartan
women were very athletic and kept very healthy. Sparta was a city that was mainly
focused on war and having the best state and the best warriors. Women in Sparta were
treated very well because the society was always looking for the next great generation of
warriors. Women birth babies, and they wanted those babies to be as healthy as possible.
Another unique aspect of the city was that there were women and girls everywhere.
Because of the city’s training system for boys and men, they were mostly all off training
and fighting. It was a female dominated society, and that was such a unique and
significant thing at the time. 19/20
Spartan Women 6) - Spartan women was one of the first women who had freedom of
choice. They were able to be married at the appropriate age of 21 and they weren’t forced
to be at home at all times. Of course they had to clean, cook, and raise the children (no –
they had slaves to do that for them!); but they were able to go out to the market or go to
the theatre. Most importantly they were counted as a voice at the general assembly. Their
idea had formed the powerful nation of Sparta. Helen (she is from an earlier age – and
lived a life very different from women after Lycurgus’s reforms), the wife of Menelaus,
and Cynisca, the fearless chariot rider, was both a strong and brave Spartan women.
Spartan women was the only kind who was encouraged to get married and have a sexual
life with another man. Spartan women had much freedom and was able to speak out their
opinions. 15/20
ATHENIAN WOMEN - Women
- second class citizens – lived very restricted lives
– considered the property of their fathers and husbands – educated only for domestic
chores and responsibilities – were married off to an older man at a young age – could
rarely leave the home – only for occasional religious festivals or duties – were expected
to be loyal and faithful (while men enjoyed a double standard) – Pericles said women
should be “least talked about” – responsibility to produce and raise offspring – similar to
Spartans with the important distinction that they were not celebrated or rewarded for this
contribution – it was just expected and demanded
Athenian Women 1) - Athenian women had a function similar to house slaves to their
husband. They were expected to be seen and not heard. Their duties were to wait on her
husband and his guests and to do all the household chores. They couldn't leave the house
without their husband's approval. The women were also oppressed politically, as they
could not be in the assembly and had no say otherwise in political matters. They were
shamed if the sought out an education. They never spoke out for themselves, for fear of
severe humiliation or punishment. They could never enjoy any of the freedoms that
Spartan women took for granted. To be mentioned in public was the worst disgrace.
Athenian women could never expect to live more than a slightly elevated servant's life.
19/20
Athenian Women 2) – If you are women, you would definitely not want to be Athenian
women. They received no respect nor freedom, and their lives were just tragic. They were
expected to be not seen nor heard in public and they were given as little education as
possible. Greeks thought that it was worthless to educate women. Also, Athenian women
did not have roles in public life for they were excluded in the society. They were not
allow to participate nor contribute to any political and cultural events. Athenian women
did not really get to enjoy the freedom like Spartan women did. 17/20
Athenian Women 3) - For Athenian women, there expectations were to have a shadowed
lifestyle. Furthermore, the women were not expected to be seen nor heard. It would be
shameful if any of the women were mentioned in public. The Athenian women weren’t
allowed to leave their house unless they had to attend to domestic matters, go a religious
ceremony, or an occasional sortie outside. The women’s role was to do chores, clean the
house, grind corn, wash, or bake bread. The richer Athenian women who had slaves to
take care of the drudgery would spin and sew. 18/20
Athenian Women 4) - Athenian women were not expected to do much, besides stay in
the house and clean up for the family. They were treated a lot like slaves, but with a
family. Shameful if they were mentioned in public they only went outside of their house
for special occasions, such as religious ceremonies. The education opportunities for
Athenian women are very slim. Teaching women was thought to be almost like giving
venom to a dangerous snake. Athenian women were not given a choice in their love lives,
but were assigned a man and married of as young as twelve years old. 18/20
Athenian Women 5) - Woman were thought very little of in Athens They were said to be
“demons” and had no right to vote. In Athens women where raised sheltered and
excepted to be neither seen nor heard. These women were married off as young as 12 to
much older men. They were very restricted and had no say in how they lived. Most
women would spend their days doing household chores. Athenian democracy did not
change how they lived because they still had no say. In Pericles funeral oration he
mentions the woman by saying the greatest glory for them was to be least talked about by
men. 18/20
Athenian Women 6) - Athenian expectations for women were conservative even
comparing to other states of its own times. In Athens, women were neither expected to
seen nor to be heard. They were given little opportunities as they were given as little
education as possible and could be led away by a man as young as twelve. For them, it
was a shame even to be mentioned in public. They were almost excluded from politics. In
that society, women had no say. In a sense, they seemed to accept these social norms for
which they led a very sheltered existence and their achievements are consisted primarily
of playing their part of dutiful, shadowy life. 17/20
ANTIGONE - Women
- A strong woman who asserted herself as much as her
society (Thebes) would allow – willing to defy authority in order to honor her family and
the gods – had obligation to perform religious rituals – followed expectations
conventionally in that regard – but was unconventional in challenging Creon’s decree –
put God’s law above the law of the state – willing to die for her beliefs – spoke our
forcefully and proudly – shamed her sister for not acting in the same way – was a “holy
outlaw” – but did not challenge the penalties imposed – was a victom of a horrible family
curse, but lived nobly nonetheless
Antigone – Women 1) - Antigone was a holy outlaw. According to Creon she was a
disobedient little girl that he was forced to look out for. But this girl was strong willed
and did want to neglect the gods. She thought that it was more important to please them
than to please a king that had inherited the throne. She risked her life to burry her brother
who had betrayed his family. Antigone responded negatively to the laws of the state. She
broke the kings very first law. It is easy to look back at Antigone’s life and say that she
didn’t achieve anything, but honestly she lived a life full of honor and truth. 17/20
Antigone – Women 2) - Antigone is a strong woman. She does what she believes is right,
regardless of other people’s opinions. Antigone is a holy outlaw by going against the law
in order to do what she believed was right. Antigone did not let limits stop her. She
buried her brother, who was not to be buried, knowing that she would be stoned to death.
Her brother was not to be buried because he had attacked his own city. Antigone insists
on burying him so he can have entrance to the underworld. Her sister, Ismene, tries to
stop her by telling her not to burry him. Antigone refuses to listen to her sister because
she wants to do what is right. Antigone achieves her goal by burying her brother and
standing up what was right. When Creon angrily questions her about burying him, she
tells the truth and is proud about her actions. This is significant because it reflects
Antigone’s strong character, and it shows what it means to be a holy outlaw. This slightly
relates to Penelope in the Odyssey, because Penelope refuses to marry any of the suitors
and does what is right instead. Antigone refuses to do as she is told because she wants to
do what is right as well. 19/20
Antigone – Women 3) - Antigone was a strong woman. In the play Oedipus (no –
Antigone), by Sophocles they was a law not to bury Antigone's brother. Antigone a holy
outlaw goes against the law to do what she believes is right. She would be facing certain
death and she realized it. This shows the strength of Antigone's character, she puts her
life on the line knowing the result. Antigone did not have a joyful life and death to her
seemed like a better choice. Antigone isn´t afraid of Creon, but her sister Ismene was.
Ismene showed a weak character while Antigone showed the qualities of a strong woman.
Even though Antigone suffered a tragic end her life was not meaningless. She honored
her brother and made his afterlife better. By honoring her brother she probably made her
journey to the next world better as well. Antigone achieved all of this by doing what she
wanted to, and not submitting to others of higher power. 17/20
Antigone – Women 4) - Antigone was a women with a strong heart. As a women back in
that time, she was expected to play the common roles of a women. Instead, she spoke
against the current ruler (Creon) and disobeyed him to do what was right. She stood up
for what was right with nobody by her side. She was the only one who believed that it
was right to burry her brother. Creon strongly disagreed and told he not too, but she
denied him and did it anyway. She had called her self a 'Holy Outlaw" due to her being
an outlaw to the state, but doing what would pleas the gods and people of the under world.
Creon soon began to regret denying his burial. It had came back to him and hurt him, he
no longer felt strong. Antigone represented a model of bravery and strength. He being an
unlikely figure to do such a thing surprise many and made many strive to be like her.
18/20
Antigone – Women 5) - Antigone was a model of power in the play Antigone by
Sophocles. She was a woman who rose above Creon's remarks of not conforming to
anyone who were female. She stood up against Creon and instead she fought for what she
believed in: burying her brother. She called herself a “Holy Outlaw” which meant that
she disregarded a lower power’s rules for the rules of someone or something else in
higher power. She followed her gods and did what she thought was right not one, but two
times. When Creon demanded that Antigone’s brother not be buried, he made a mistake
that came around to effect himself negatively. 17/20
Antigone – Women 6) - Antigone as a Greek (Theban) woman was expected to stay
silent and never argue with men. She was expected to stay in her house and do womanly
duties and never be spoken of. But Antigone spoke out against the king and acted against
him by burying her brother twice. As a woman this was an unforgivable crime. Not only
did she go against the man’s law twice but she argued about it with him, insulting him.
She had done something no other woman had done. The citizens of Thebes felt sorry for
her and started agreeing that she had the right to do what she did since it was simply
following god’s laws. Creon did not care if the citizens were on her side though, he
valued state laws of god’s laws and sent her to die in a cave. She achieved a lot by getting
people to agree with her and doing what she thought was right no matter her limits.
18/20