.
'
120
l
.2
Cutler,
Craig felt merited some sort of discussion·.
3
The reason that--no,
5
times.
MR.
9
SCHANZER:
.
THE WITNESS:
rec oll e cti on ,
Not to my, recollection.
To my
they were all new background investigations to
and th ere was a
10
which we had received in the office,
11
qu e s tion of something or an issue that needed to be brought
12
to the attenti9n of Counsel's' Office.
BY MR.
13
Q
15
..
HIRS LAND:
Do you remember specific individuals t ha t Mr.
Livingstone would take their files?
16
A
Yes.
17
Q
And those particular individuals--
lB
MR.
19
BY MR.
HIRSHLAND:
Excuse
me.
20
21
Q
S
ZER:
Those individuals that you recall
carryovers, '. they were new
22
A
Specifically,
23
Q
Do
24
were t aken?
25
A
you rec all
Mu.El' llE'OlmffG CO., IHC.
Yes.
We're not meaning individuals.
,
spec:i,.fically were not
...
..... . ,._ ,.,.,..
Would these have ever been"files
from Project Update?
8
507 C Street, N.E.
don't remember a ny log
being kept simply because they were in his custody at all
7.
Wuhinr<an. D.C. 20002
I
4
6
(
.
.
if there :was an issue that merited d i s 9 ussi'on . or
employees?
yes.
the reasons why
pecif ically they
121
Q
Would you tell us?
A
No.
MR.
SRERE:
I.don't want her to get into
No.
anybody's personal background info
open her up to any potential violation of
MR.
HIRSHLAND:
Well,
I don't want to
ation.
the
Privacy Act.
just so you know,
Privacy Act does not apply to Congress.
the
So she would not be
violating the Privacy Act.
MR.
SCHANZER:
You're giving her legal advice on
what the Privacy Act does and"does not apply to?
I mean,
that's ridiculous.
MR.
HIRSHL!illD:
Excuse me,
Mr.
Schanzer,
but I
resent your commentary here.
MR.
SCHANZER:
MR.
HIRSHLAND:
I don't care what you resent.
That is evident,
your
unprofessional manner throµghout this investigation.
MR.
SCHANZER:
I thought the idea of this
investigation was to determine w4at happened to the e files
and.why they were chosen,
not specific priv te information
'
about why people's files might have been reviewed by
somebody in the White House Counsel's office.
MR. HIRSHLAND:
MR.
SCHANZER:
Well,
So
obviously--
'm·making clear that we're
disassociating ourselves to any extent with this. line of
.
\
25
Ml.all
Q CO., INC.
107 C Sc=i.'t'J.E
. 'Wuh.lnrton, 0.C.
.
. ..
... .
l000 2
inquiry,
and I'll put it on the record that.I think your
122
1
line of questioning in
2
inappropriate.
MR. H I RSHLAND:
3
4
· s
SRERE:
7
MR.
H IRSHLAND:
Mr.
Schanzer,
I. think we can,
unless Mr.
Schanzer would care to add more commentary;
legal analysis,
perhaps.
MR.
SCHANZER:
11
MR.
HIRSHLAND:
12
BY MR. HIRSHLAND:
Q
No.
Political analysio,
Can you tell us how often Mr.
perhaps?.
Kennedy would
--·-·
14
15
·16
17
18
19
actually visit the Office of Personnel Security?
A
No .
. His main contact was in,
a
he would
come down to the office.
Q
The weekly meeting you referred to,
would that
occur-Kennedy ' s offi c e .
A
In Mr.
21
Q
Okay.
22
A
And then when Mr.
Kennedy was no l onge.r doing it,
.
.
it occurred with Beth Nolan who took over his duties.
And Beth never came to the office,
24
2.5
I would say,
w e ekly meeting with Craig I . "and every now and then I
20
23
that
I do
:z::ernember.
-
ll9'0fl'TIHQ co., lo!C.
507 C Sri=. N.E.
Wuhinrcaa, 0.C. 20002
.. .. . .. ....
I'm
Can we move on?
10
13
·
frankly,
questioning that I 'm asking.
MR.
9
Well,
delighted to have you disassociat d from the line of
6
.8
c·
this regard is entirely
1 013215
123
t
1
Q
That she did.
2
A
Never came.
3
Q
You have no recollection that she ever came?
4
A
That's correct.
5
Q
But you do have a recollection that she had weekly
meetings with
A
·a
Kennedy did.
9
Q
Do you recall whether they had weekly meetings?
10
A
That was the same fashion that Mr.
11.
Q
So,
A
I think I stated that.earlier.
Q
Did you ever have a conversation with Craig
13
Livingstone about how he got hired as director of th
15
of Perfilonnel Security?
.
....
---
.Office
A
No.
17
Q
Do you have any knowledge about how he got hired?
-18
A
No.
19
Q
Did Mr.
Livingstone ever discuss with you any
desire to head the White House 'Military Of'fice?
21
A
Yes.
22
Q
And can you tell us when this was?
23
A
Specifically,
no.
I remember that he said that he
That it made sense since they all filed
24
would like to.
25
through us anyway.
But I ,
specifically as to when he
INC.
Wuhinrton, D.C:. 20002
.. .
yes.
16
(
llE'OfmKQ CO.,
C Sll'ttl, N.E.
·-
your answer is,
Kennedy had.
14
20
107
She carried on in.the same fashion that Mr.
7
12
Ill
raig?
.
1 013 2.16
124
1
started saying that he would l i ke to,
2
3
4
.
Did he ever discuss with you any prior commitments
. or promises that had been made to him rega rding his salary
as di rector of the Office of Personnel Security?
Vaguely,
I remember that.
5
A
Yes.
6·
Q
Do you remember what he
7
9
10
iscu sed with you?
I 'm .
not asking for the particular numbers but j st the general--
8
A
I remember that he discussed what the . pr evious
direc t or ' s salary was and what his was in comparison
a nd
wha t he had been promised and what the actual offering was.
11
c · ··
Q
no.
Q
Mr.
Livingsto ne at one p oint wrote
·
a handwritten
Quinn r g a rding his,
12
letter to Mr.
13
salary situation.
14
so?
vidently r egarding his
Do you have any recollection of him doing
15
A
No.
l6
Q
He has indicated. to us that he presented to Mr.
17
Quinn a printout of what prior individ als who held the same
18
position he had;
19
had obtained such c;i. printout?
20
21
22
A
had been paid.
Other than,
as I previously stated, he knew what
the prior director's sal ary was,
Q
Were you ever aware .that he
no.
· I'm t alki ng about a specific printout.
You have no recollection?
23
,.
\
24
A
No.
25
Q
Did Craig Livingstone ever tell you that anyone in
.
lilt.UJI' ll90lmHG CO., INC.
507 C St:ttt, N.E.
Wuhiall!Ott. D.C. 20001
1 013217
125
1
his family was' friends with the President and the £irst Lady
2
or the Vice President?
3
A
No.
4
Q
Do you know if he ever told anyone e lse t hat
S
6
A
7
real ly
8
Q
9
(
I have no knowl edge of what he told anybo y else, ·
.
So,
you have no partic lar knowledge ·that he told
anyone else that anyone in his family was friends with
either the President and the First Lady or the Vice
11
President?
12
13
A
No.
The o nly kno +edge that I have t ha t h is
were that they were Republican .
parents were anything
.
Q
While you were at the Office of Personnel
recal l
15
Sec urity,
16
personally cal ling him to
do you
Craig ever discussing the President
andle any advance work?
1.7
A
No.
18
Q
Did the President ever ·personally call Cr aig
1.9
i
\'
i:li'O&blnl'lll\, D.C.
his family was fri.ends --
10
J.4
507 CSu.-ci.N.E.
anyone in
Livingstone?
20
A
Not to my knowledge.
21
Q
Did the First Lady ever call Craig Livingstone?
22
A
Not to my knowledge.
23
Q
The Vice President?
24
A
Not to my knowledge.
25
Q
Do you know if Craig Livingstone ever p e rformed
C::O INC.
1 013 218- :.
:ZOOOI