Interchange Conference Transcript
I:\DIWE5NET\CLASSES\kwong03\CHAT\BreakTrad
[Message #1 09:28:53 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
karen wong:
First number each of the stanzas. Then going stanza by stanza, and perhaps even line by line, provide a
“narrative” of your understanding of the poem, much like I did in class on Monday. Start with the title,
and as you continue, consider word connotations (i.e., flake vs. free spirit-- what you may associate with
certain terms), symbolism, metaphors, similes, allusions to other literary works, persons, places, or
events, and/or oppositions. To wrap up your analysis, write a one-to-two sentence summation of what
the poem is “about,” and also identify one other poem that connects thematically with yours, as well as
what that theme is
[Message #2 11:43:56 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Ariana Bickham:
1.
The narrator says her daughter tries to be everything she's not and is caught up in music, smoke
and telephones. Something her mother never allowed.
2.
She wants to tell her daughter that they are similar in more ways than she knows .
3.
She keeps referring to a waiting room and maybe the waiting room is a certain age where
women feel or don't know their belonging because of family traditions
4.
The narrator denied she was like her mother because her mother followed a strict tradition
(defiance, quiet? Obeyed the rules that her family set for her
5.
"confined"- kept together, silent. "like a fetus"- carried so much guilt around that is was
pressure on her. The guilt her mother carried passed onto her and her daughter and she wants the
tradition to stop and for women to able to do what they want or express how they feel.
6.
Her mother told her that women were small and powerless, they were to follow tradition. She
now realizes that those were all lies, women are able to stand up tall for what they believe in.
7.
She wants her daughter to know that she's able to live her life the way she wants and that she
knows the feeling that her daughter is feeling.
[Message #3 11:44:01 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
sharma subha:
Title:
Making something of yourself
Stanza 1:
The mom and the daughter don't have an understanding of each other. The relationship isn't that great.
Stanza 2:
Stanza two talks about being a women. What being a women is like and how she is trapped with all this
stuff in a small room. No space to breath.
Stanza 3:
Stanza three is about the how the daughter is not like her mother. Her mother kept things to herself.
She was the traditional type. She took sacrifices. She grew with the sacrifices - referring to the fetus.
Stanza 4:
The daughter does not want to be like her mother. She wants to be free . She wants to unlock the room
to let all the secrets and lies out. She wants to do things her way.
Stanza 5:
She wants to tell her own daughter of the room that she once broke away from.
Stanza 6:
Just as the speaker broke away from tradition, her own daughter is doing the same. The tradition of
breaking away.
[Message #4 11:44:48 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Belle Asuncion:
Breaking Traditions
I feel the author, Janice Mirikitani is the narrator. She is talking about her experience and
memories about being a woman who lived through strict traditions. In line 15-23, she expressed what
those traditions where and she wants to break from them. Maybe being Japanese too, that she had to
live under strict traditions and not just because she was a woman.
She disliked being so quiet and by that maybe she meant not having a voice because she was a woman.
And maybe because the old traditions called for women being passive and giving to what others need
and she wanted to break from that tradition. And like most Asian cultures she wanted to break from the
guilt the generations pass on from one to the other. I believe that small room, that empty room was her
mind or her inner self. I get the feeling that she feels being a women is a burden because in line 11 she
uses the word,, "bedridden". But I think she feels happy that her daughter is rebelling a breaking the
tradition of what women used to be. Her daughter smokes, listen to loud music, communicates openly
using the telephone to anybody, wearing what she wants to wear.
[Message #5 11:47:45 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Bogdan Kurpita:
Breaking Tradition: breaking the tradition of her family; Japanese tradition. Who is breaking the
tradition, the mother or the daughter?
Stanza 1 (lines 1-4): the daughter is breaking the tradition in her own way, by not wanting to associate
with her mother or her ancestry.
Stanza 2 (lines 5-9): the mother has been breaking tradition in her own way but not as much as her
daughter who has been assimilated into the American culture. Locked in a room = unable to speak up.
Fungus= spreads unnoticed - her whispers are unnoticed, her concerns and worries are just as
unnoticed.
Stanza 3 (lines 10-14): talks about the issues of being a Japanese woman: small breasts, perhaps being
jealous of other women for their better, sexier looks. All that Japanese/Oriental women are good for is
hospital or kitchen work. Basically she stereotypes the main jobs of Asian women. Hands are compared
to 'useless clams'.
Stanza 4 (lines 15-19): She does not want to be like her mother, so she is the one that is breaking her
Japanese tradition.
Stanza 5 (lines 20-24): her mother wasn't happy either but she put her happiness aside (sacrificed it) in
order to not break tradition. The author is saying that she wants to put an end to this misery.
Stanza 6 (lines 25-29): possibilities compared to small pears. Significance is that women have great value
and potential but they are suppressed and hidden away; never playing the main role, always part of the
scenery. Silent beauties.
Stanza 7 (lines 30-34): She wants to communicate her past and her present state/struggle to her
daughter. Mother wants to pass on the tradition to her daughter but in a different method. Different
approach, not the one that her mother used which was basically silence, solitude, unexpressed
emotions.
Stanza 8 (lines 35-39):She wants her daughter to still hold on to her history or at least be familiar with it.
Stanza 9 (lines 40-47): her daughter is an American teenager who is completely into all the things that
are typical for her years.
Breaking tradition: the mother wants to break it but realizes that she has been living her life following
tradition for too long. She sees herself in her daughter who is actually the one breaking tradition. In a
sense, the mother is proud and/or even jealous of her daughter's freedom and ability to express herself.
[Message #6 11:49:17 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Raya Mesias:
Raya:
Stanza 1:
"My daughter denies she is like me… smoke and telephones…"
--Focusing on this particular line in Stanza 1: "She reveals the hatreds of womanhood/ already VEILED
behind music and smoke and telephones…" there is definitely a correlation between the words: REVEAL
and VEILED in that the mother is describing the HIDDEN feelings that her daughter OPENLY shows in that
because of their age differences and of course their roles as a mother and daughter that both at times
do not understand one another.
Stanza 2:
"I want to tell her about the empty room…ironing boards to make them useful…"
--In this particular stanza, as opposed to stanza 1 which presents an opposition, stanza 2 presents a
similarity instead of a duality that both mother and daughter share-in which both are women. And in
further analyzing this similarity and the imagery that the mother presents to the audience: "I want to tell
her about the EMPTY room of MYSELF/ this room that WE lock OURSELVES in…giggles about small
breasts and cellulites (in referring to the opposition of young and old women's physical concerns) …
bedridden by menstruation…plugs and ironing boards to make them useful" this shows that in being
woman, both mother and daughter have to endure and experience the stereotypes against women.
Especially, keeping in mind, that they are Japanese, and in connecting to the Japanese culture-or even
Asian culture, in fact, women are supposed to be submissive.
Stanza 3:
"I deny I am like my mother…Guilt passed on in our bones…"
--In stanza 3, the mother reflects on the past and reminisces about the relationship that she with her
mother. This particular stanza connects with the historical background of the poem in which JapaneseAmericans, during WWII, were uprooted from the homes in particularly California and Hawaii (the west
coast) and put in concentration camps in Middle America. The U.S. government justified these actions
in claiming that Japanese-Americans were dangerous due to the probability that because of their
Japanese ancestry that they could actually turn against the U.S. (traitors). Especially in comparison to
her mother, she describes her mother's feelings in her mother's actions in that: "She (the mother) kept
her room neat with SILENCE/ DEFIANCE smothered in requirements to be otonashi (quiet, serene) /the
weight of her SACRIFICE … GUILT PASSED in OUR (women) bones"-meaning that because of the
experience and pressure that the US and WWII were having in effect towards Japanese Americans-this is
probably how the Japanese-Americans felt.
Stanza 4:
"I want to break tradition-unlock this room…Break Tradition…"
--In stanza 4, the narrator describes the hidden secrets that her mother told her in that "the lies that we
are small and powerless/….possibilities must be compressed to the size of pearls…" -describing the way
those women are treated. Especially in regarding the words: pearls, chokers, and charms-that these are
objects that women usually wear and being that these are OBJECTS-women in this poem are not seen as
people but as objects-something that is to be owned or collected.
I think this poem is about the feelings and thoughts of Japanese-Americans during WWII and the way
women are seen in the Japanese culture. I think the narrator shouts out loud that she wants to be free
of all the ties (stereotypes) that are pulling her down and wants to "break tradition". \
Another poem that connects with Mirikitani's poem "Breaking Tradition" is "We Wear the Mask" by Paul
Laurence Dunbar, in that in Dunbar's poem he speaks of wearing a mask-a façade, or a fallacy, that is
presented in hiding one's feelings, and in concealing oneself feels that he/she must hide away -and in
doing so must feel pressure and isolation due to external pressures-like stereotypes, like that of in
Mirikitani's poem.
[Message #7 11:50:43 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Belle Asuncion:
Ariana, I really like number 3, I would have never guessed and also number 4.
[Message #8 11:52:34 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Belle Asuncion:
Sharma, I didn't realize the sacrifices but now that you mentioned it you're right.
[Message #9 11:52:49 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
karen wong:
To build on Ariana's message #2, idea 3, what did you make of the metaphor of "hands" as "useless,
dead speechless clamps"?
[Message #10 11:54:32 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
karen wong:
Are any of the other poems about breaking tradition, or trying to do things differently than the previous
generation?
[Message #11 11:55:18 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Ariana Bickham:
Refering to Karen's message #9:Theirs hands are only good for when they have work around the house
to do or when they are needed to take care of others
[Message #12 11:55:19 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Bogdan Kurpita:
to everyone in my group: great insight into the poem . Lot's of good analysis.
[Message #13 11:55:35 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Raya Mesias:
@ Bogdon-- I liked how you explored with the word "fungus" and related it to how "her WHISPERS"
were being unnoticed in that like a fungus, her whispers grew and multiplied without being noticed. And
I think, in connecting, with everyone's interpretation of the locked room (filled with the secrets and lies
that her mother told her), which I think was very on point, is that because of these unnoticed,
multiplying concerns about being Japanese and about being a woman, that she desired, so desperately
to "break tradition".
[Message #14 11:56:19 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
karen wong:
ah, another interesting theme is that of silence vs. having a voice. belle, you gave me that idea. which
other poems also address that theme?
[Message #15 11:57:47 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
sharma subha:
maybe Suicide Note
[Message #16 11:58:33 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Belle Asuncion:
On Ariana's #2 and #3, maybe she yearns for that mother/daughter relationship that's not really normal
in an asian family. And she wants to connect to her daughter but can't. And that age that she is in now
might be preventing her because she has lived a quite, obedient life that talking to her daughter about a
subject would go against everything her mother taught her.
[Message #17 11:59:19 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Ariana Bickham:
i agree with you Belle
[Message #18 11:59:20 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Bogdan Kurpita:
Sharma: I agree about the Suicide note....
Except this poem does not take it soo far. Suicide note would be an interesting contrast betweeen
Japanes and Chinese cultures and about what is expected from each one and the expectations that are
place on women or the lack thereof.
[Message #19 12:00:47 PM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Belle Asuncion:
@ Sharma and Bogdan, oh yes. I was thinking maybe Legal Alien because you don't have a voice in both
worlds but Suicide by far, relates to not having a voice
[Message #20 12:01:00 PM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Raya Mesias:
@Subha:
I definitely agree with you that "Suicide Note" also by Janice Mirikitani--addresses the theme of silence
vs. having a voice, in that in connection with Ariana's insight about the metaphor of "hands" as "useless,
dead speechless clamps" that maybe these hands are clamps in that they restrict these women from
speaking, or expressing themselves.
Interchange Conference Transcript
I:\DIWE5NET\CLASSES\kwong03\CHAT\Freeway280
[Message #2 11:42:25 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Kile Boele:
Freeway 280-Kile's interpretation
Stanza #1
The community's view was destroyed by innovation /construction of the freeway.
Why was plant life mentioned?
And I compared the meaning behind the words when the Freeway is described as a raised scar.
Stanza#2
Fake wind sounds was a comparison to nature and when it says "the abandoned lots below, new grass
sprout" I took that as a sign of hope or new life.
When it speaks about "Old" I took that as the old know and remember and they teach the new. They are
the sentinels to new growth. And it also brings up the concept of History.
Stanza#3
The scramble over the wire fence described to me something youthful and overcoming obstacles.
And when it says that would have kept me out. Once, I wanted out. I take that as it used to keep them in
now it's used to keep them out (changing of the times). And the question came up of why would the
narrator want out?
The next 2 lines referred to the freeway being wanted but after it was attained it was not wanted
anymore. And the final 2 lines made me think they worked in restaurant or a cannery.
Final Stanza
This stanza made me think "hopeful" and that it was a new type of garden. When it says "mow under "I
think of left behind, and when it says "like a corpse" I think of an end/a door closing/ a chapter ending.
The last line made me think of a new beginning because a loose seed can take root and grow.
[Message #3 11:43:19 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
William Lumbi:
FREEWAY 280
Stanza 5: Seems as if in the opening stanza the writer is trying to draw us a picture. Basically a new built
freeway was build over what used to be her neighborhood where little houses, flowers, and geraniums
used to be.
Stanza 10: Under the freeway what used to be her hometown or neighborhood is abandoned and all
the trees and gardens are "come back stronger", as if they look better than before, even though the
freeway was built above it. Everything there grows nicely since old ladies come and gather greens.
Stanza 15: "once, I wanted out…take me to a place without sun", seems like they wanted to accept the
freeway and wanted to forget what was originally there. Writer wanted to forget the memories left
there and move on.
Stanza 20: In Spanish the writer says " maybe its here in the weird fields of this city". This stanza leads
me to think that the writer feels lost, unwanted, or just confused about where he/she belongs.
Something about her or something she is yet to find out is missing and she's looking for a answer or
looking for that place. Seems like the writer singles themselves out or maybe singled out by others.
Freeway? Maybe society or people? She's definitely missing something and she's trying to either find it
or get it back.
[Message #4 11:43:25 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Gloria Keane:
1-5 Little homes near the gray cannery really made me wonder what a cannery was. A cannery is a place
where food is held. Homes near food is held. Why was that part said in Spanish? Maybe this person is
Hispanic? Then it is explained that there are climbing roses and geraniums (which I assumbed were a
different kind of flower) but those are all now gone because of a freeway that was built over it. I also
placed that it could possibly be someone recollecting this, maybe they lived near these homes or in
these homes. The tone seemed sort of sad, maybe because of sentimental value to where he use to live.
6-13 Though there is a freeway that has taken over this place there is still new grasses that sprout.
Maybe still recollecting the times when there were homes there and the memory of them with "new
grasses sprout." Connecting the part that says "come back stronger than they were" ( 4th) to maybe his
home or the houses in that area before the freeway. Maybe because he left, he became a stronger
person? Lines 10 & 12 were a little confusing, I thought this person might be taking about veggies
because they said that old ladies ( which was also written in Spanish, why?) came to this area where the
freeway use to be to gather greens
14-15 These 2 lines really shifted me because I began to get confused. Maybe, I miss read the whole
poem and the freeway didn't take over the area that they lived at but were just passed where they lived.
Because now they climb over the fence that kept this person out.
16-19 This person wanted the "rigid lanes", to take them away from where they were which they
described.
20-25 Then I realized that I when I began, I totally misread the beginning of the poem by not
understanding the one line "The freeway conceals it all beneath a raised scar." Here in this part the
person states that their in foreign land where they need to find a part of themselves that they maybe
have lost during the change.
This poem was very hard for me to understand, completly but I hope I can grab some of what you guys
thought to help me understand!
[Message #5 11:45:12 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
tamara abualhsan:
Prompt: First number each of the stanzas. Then going stanza by stanza, and perhaps even line by line,
provide a "narrative" of your understanding of the poem, much like I did in class on Monday. Start with
the title, and as you continue, consider word connotations (i.e., flake vs. free spirit-- what you may
associate with certain terms), symbolism, metaphors, similes, allusions to other literary works, persons,
places, or events, and/or oppositions. To wrap up your analysis, write a one-to-two sentence summation
of what the poem is "about," and also identify one other poem that connects thematically with yours, as
well as what that theme is.
1.
So the narrator is Latin from the use of word Spanish words las casitas his/ her home is near a
grey cannery I wasn't sure what a cannery was? I looked it up and it said "a food canning
factory"…abrazo?? … so I think where the narrator had lived had been full of roses and now was
replaced with a freeway…to which he describes as a raised scar…"a scar used as something that is ugly
and can never go away"
2.
So in this stand I guess the narrator is having visualization of what was where this freeway was
now put …it seems to be a garden with grass and tomatoes and it was a place where many came to pick
their vegetables.
3.
But then it seems like there is two different worlds behind a wire fence??.....a place where there
was a garden full of his/her loved ones and now it became a freeway which destroyed what they saw as
beauty and is left with a scared freeway.
I think this poem is about immigrants…..comparing his life to somewhere he lived where there was
family and a garden full of greens and roses ….and on the other side of the fence there was a freeway
where he/she can be free from all of it.
[Message #6 11:46:14 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Kile Boele:
i totally missed the first line when it says he lives near the cannery
[Message #7 11:48:17 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Kile Boele:
i agree and believe that this poem is showing the parallels between the 2 different lifestyles/cultures
and how they mesh together
[Message #8 11:53:20 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Kile Boele:
i was agreeing with tamara when she said this poem was about immigrants
[Message #9 11:53:40 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
tamara abualhsan:
do you think he is changing his original lifestyle?
[Message #10 11:53:59 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
tamara abualhsan:
and moving to a new place?
[Message #11 11:55:52 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Kile Boele:
i think hes learning to adapt to a new lifestyle and traveling between the 2 new places
[Message #12 11:56:21 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Katrina Recinto:
Starting with the title, Freeway 280, we can predict that the poem might have something to do with
freedom of freewill. But as we read the poem it is more about how the new replaces the old.
1st stanza: "Las casitas near the gray cannery nestled amid wild abrazos of climbing roses and man-high
red geraniums are gone now. The free way conceals it all beneath a raised car." I think that the poet is
speaking about her childhood. In these lines we can tell that she is describing the place where she grew
up. She looks back on her past and the place that is no longer there, because the "freeway conceals it."
2nd Stanza: "But under the fake windsounds of the open lanes in the abandoned lots below, new
grasses sprout wild mustard old gardens come back stonger than they were…" In this stanza we can tell
that the author realizes that all she has left are memories, memories of what used to be there. This
place used to be her home where she spent her childhood. She describes how things have changed
overtime and the things that used to be or the old becomes new. She also incorporated Spanish words,
which tells us that she is embracing her culture&heritage.
3rd Stanze: the author tells us "i wanted out, wanted the rigid lanes to take me to a place without a sub,
without the smell of tomatoes burning..." the lines are a little unclear to me. If she is describing her
childhood and the place where she used to live then why would she out?
Final Stanza: It seems as if she continues her search for this place that used to be there. She has hope
that "maybe its here."
[Message #13 11:57:06 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
tamara abualhsan:
but in stanza 15 he says once he goes over the wired fence he is over for good?
[Message #14 11:57:47 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Kile Boele:
i didnt read it to thouroghly so i ma yhave missed that lol
[Message #15 11:58:00 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
tamara abualhsan:
lol
[Message #16 11:58:22 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
tamara abualhsan:
i was a little confused about the poem
[Message #17 11:58:26 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
William Lumbi:
Writer hoped the border
[Message #18 11:58:30 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Kile Boele:
i like how we are the only 2 people posting things
[Message #19 11:59:00 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
tamara abualhsan:
i know lol
[Message #20 11:59:42 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Gloria Keane:
sorry, i'm reading. i just wasn't too sure if the writer was taking about the freeway taking over his place
or him hopping the border because 280is not on a border. ha, i really am not sure about this one. sorry,
again
[Message #21 11:59:47 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Kile Boele:
he probably did hop the border like most of the people coming into the us have done in the past few
years
[Message #22 12:00:17 PM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
karen wong:
i thought of the wire fence as a metaphor, literally and figuratively, in that uprooting people can cause
loss of community and identity.
[Message #23 12:00:34 PM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Katrina Recinto:
whats the impotantance of incorporating spanish words in this poem? what do you guys think?
[Message #24 12:00:49 PM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
tamara abualhsan:
yea that was my interpetation of the poem to he said if he goes over he will never go back
[Message #25 12:00:57 PM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
William Lumbi:
Maybe the 280 was the last freeway they rode on before they reached theyre new home
Interchange Conference Transcript
I:\DIWE5NET\CLASSES\kwong03\CHAT\LegalAlien
[Message #2 11:42:48 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
karen wong:
The title, "Legal Alien," seems contradictory. How can one have legal status yet be considered an "alien,"
the term for undocumented people? Yet "alien" also suggests something different from the norm, so
then who in the poem is considered different., and why is she considered different?
The poem's first line zeroes in on the theme of cultural identity, "bi" suggesting two, and as the poem
evolves, the "bilingual" is English and Spanish, the "bicultural" suggesting America and those countries
whose first language is Spanish. Listing both at the same time seems to suggest that you can't have one
without the other, that an understanding of the language makes one more attuned to the culture, and
vice versa. So it was interesting to note in subsequent lines that the narrator shifts back and forth in
Spanish and English, yet also provides a context, in this case an office and a restaurant. I did find it
interesting that the quote in Spanish means "They're driving me crazy." Does that admission mean that
the narrator feels that she can't be herself in a predominantly American setting such as an office?
"American but hyphenated"-why? I remember having this debate in college about the differences
between Chinese American , Chinese-American, and American of Chinese descent. (On a related note,
the narrator uses the hyphens in the first line.) Does the hyphenation suggest a positive or negative
distinction? If positive, it acknowledges all of the different cultures that are present in the US (the salad
bowl analogy). If negative, it seems to demarcate what people associate with America (generally white)
and those deemed different (all of the non-white).
The subsequent examples seem to illustrate the negative aspects of hyphenation, that she is seen as an
outsider by Americans for not being white or for speaking another language besides English, and that
she is seen as an outsider by Mexicans who see her as American. Knowing the language is not enough to
make her authentic in their eyes, as evidenced from "…their eyes say 'You may speak Spanish but you're
not like me'".
I don't understand the metaphor of a "token." It has two sides, and this is how the narrator conceives
herself. And she is "sliding back and forth between the fringes of both worlds." The "fringes" is on the
margins, so she's not completely grounded in either.
"Masking the discomfort" was fascinating. She feels the need to hide her feelings about "being prejudged bilaterally." "Bilaterally" is usually a term used in warfare-in this case, is it a war on her psyche?
She's asked to take sides, as in war, to stake her claims as American or Mexican. But she can't because
she identifies with both.
This poem is about a person of color in the US who identifies with both of her cultures.
There's a connection with Dunbar's "We Wear the Mask"-both narrators feel the need to hide their
actual feelings as they contend with a racist world.
[Message #3 11:43:16 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Arielle Bronson:
Prompt: First number each of the stanzas. Then going stanza by stanza, and perhaps even line by line,
provide a "narrative" of your understanding of the poem, much like I did in class on Monday. Start with
the title, and as you continue, consider word connotations (i.e., flake vs. free spirit-- what you may
associate with certain terms), symbolism, metaphors, similes, allusions to other literary works, persons,
places, or events, and/or oppositions. To wrap up your analysis, write a one-to-two sentence summation
of what the poem is "about," and also identify one other poem that connects thematically with yours, as
well as what that theme is.
Beginning:
I interrupted the first stanza as an intro to what the main idea of Mora's poem would be
about…comparison between American and Mexican, English and Spanish. With the first line "Bi-lingual,
Bi-cultural" I immediately knew the writer would be comparing or discussing two or more topics in
reference to "bi" meaning more than one. Then towards the middle of the poem you see its about
American and Mexican.
I also got the sense that the character see America as a less comforting/ family type culture in reference
to the quote "paneled office, drafting memos" I got the sense that the character sees America as a
culture all about work and nothing else, in comparison to when the character refers to Mexico he or she
refers to "a Mexican restaurant" and when I think of a Mexican restaurant what immediately comes to
mind is the thought of belonging, and family.
"volviendo loca" means going crazy
Middle:
The poem begins to unravel and I get that the main idea of the poem is that here is a Mexican
background character who now lives and perhaps has even assimilated into American culture and yet
finds him or herself unable to feel excepted by either. "American but hyphenated" I took the word
"hyphenated" to mean the character is American but not "quite". The character in this poem is unsure
of which culture he or she belongs to and feels no 100% connection to either. "American to Mexicans,
Mexican to Americans"
End:
In the end of the poem I interrupted it as the character in a way accepting the situation because
he or she sees some upsides to being tied to both cultures "a handy token sliding back and forth" but
then when all is said and done he or she still wants to feel the sense of security with a culture if not
both. The character feels the only way to get by is to act American when around Americans and Mexican
when around Mexicans "sliding back and forth between the fringes of both worlds, by smiling, by
masking the discomfort of being pre-judged"
[Message #4 11:43:49 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Genevieve Katoa:
Title: "Legal Alien" - In America, illegal immigrants are often referred to as aliens. Though she is an
American citizen, she feels like an alien because to Americans she is a minority. She is still different in
some sense. To Mexicans, she is viewed as Americanized, and therefore, not truly Mexican.
Line 1: She describes who she is, what the poem is going to be about.
Lines 2 and 3: She can communicate her thoughts in English and Spanish. This sounds like a good thing,
because she can communicate to her thoughts to a wider audience.
Lines 4 through 6: Her bi-lingual skills allow her to do her job more efficiently. It's a benefit to her,
another positive.
Lines 7 through 10: Though she is Mexican, she cannot feel "at home" with the culture because she is
also American. Americans will view Mexican food as different and likewise, she feels she too will be
viewed as different because she is bi-cultural, "Viewed by Anglos as perhaps exotic, perhaps inferior,
definitely different."
Lines 11 through 13: In the eyes of a Mexican, she is also viewed as an alien, because she does not fully
belong to their culture, "viewed by Mexicans as alien (their eyes say, "You may speak Spanish but you're
not like me")."
Lines 14 and 15: Summarization of lines 7 through 13.
Line 16 and 17: She is referring to herself as a "token sliding back and forth between fringes of both
worlds" because she cannot stay put in one culture. In order to get through life day by day, she must
encompass both cultures.
Lines 18 and 20: She hides her discomfort of being a token by keeping a smile on her face though she is
uncomfortable with being judged, "by masking the discomfort".
Line 21: "Bi-laterally" - contrasts the first lines because it's a word that is related with opposites and
being located on opposite sides. She is trying to say that her two cultures do not work and mix well
together, but rather remain in different "worlds." Therefore, being bi-cultural, she is torn.
[Message #5 11:45:10 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Riana Mesias:
Title:
Title is contradictory, accepted but not accepted at the same time. This may relate to people that have
emigrated from another country and became a citizen here in the United States.
Stanza 1:
Line 1: the person may belong to two cultures because s/he can speak both languages and possesses
both. This can also mean a struggle between the two within the self as indicated by the hyphen in the
two words. In addition, usually people identity with one sole culture instead of many because identifying
one's culture indicates belonging, perhaps s/he cannot find a true relation to both, or maybe it can be
the exact opposite.
Lines 2 and 3: the change from "How's life?" can be a simple question such as "How was your day?" then
saddening in Spanish, the writer says, "Me'stan volviendo loca" meaning "They're driving me crazy". The
change from English to Spanish may represent struggle between the two worlds for the writer. Perhaps
by saying it in English first, and then giving this surprising response in Spanish, suggests that the writer
has hidden feelings about the two cultures.
Lines 4-7: reveals that the writer works in an office. The word "paneled" may suggest that the writer
feels trapped, but by what? Then says, "Able to order", meaning that s/he is able to do something,
whereas with a "paneled" office you can't. The difference between working, "drafting memos"
associated with English, and "order…at a Mexican restaurant" gives the idea of conflict in which s/he
feels trapped in one, as the suggestion of working, and free in the other because s/he is "able to order."
The worlds "fluent" and "smooth" reminded me of moving place to place, perhaps suggesting that s/he
is able to move from Spanish to English and vice versa, but what does that mean to him/her?
Lines: 8-11: "American but hyphenated" can be associated with people who have emigrated to the U.S.
from other countries. In addition, by pointing this out the writer signifies separation between the two.
Perhaps the hidden conflict that the writer is hiding within the self. The writer further explains the
separation by providing perhaps of what s/he thinks that each side is viewed by the other, "viewed by
Anglos as perhaps exotic, perhaps inferior, perhaps different, viewed by Mexicans as alien." Here, the
writer uses the word "perhaps" in order to tell that s/he may not know what Anglos and Mexicans think
about him/her, but what s/he thinks that they think of her/him. In addition, the sense of no belonging is
suggested here because the views that are provided are negative.
Lines 12-15: the impact of the eyes suggests that the writer really feels strongly about this conflict of
culture that resides inside of her/him because without saying a single world, the writer can interpret of
what other Mexicans may think of her/him. The sense of no belonging is repeated in, "You may speak
Spanish, but you're not like me." The use of "An American to Mexicans" and "A Mexican to Americans"
repeats the idea of no belonging and emphasizes the "one against all" idea as evidenced by what's plural
and not.
Lines 16-18: "A handy token" suggests that the writer is working; working in America, that's probably
why s/he went there to seek opportunity as with most people that immigrate here to America, and the
word "sliding" suggests that he can never stay in one "world" but has to repeatedly switch; there is no
rest and no sense of belonging to one culture.
Lines 19-22: Admits that s/he is always being judged by both groups of people, "Anglos and Mexicans"
and always has to hide true feelings.
[Message #6 11:46:19 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Mathwe Han:
The title "Legal Alien" refers that the narrator is immigrated from another country, and she is a legal
immigrant. In the beginning, the writer says Bi-lingual, Bi-cultures; I think the writer is trying to
emphasizes that she has not only difficulties with language but also the cultures of the country. The
world "able" reflects that she was able to learn another language besides her native language. The
looking at "drafting memos", "paneled English", we can speculate that her job is a secretary position.
"Smooth English" reflects that she has no problem with English and her first language is English. The
word " fluent" is used to evaluate the circumstances of the one's second language. Mexican restaurant
implies that she is still bonded with Mexican cultures and values. "Viewed by Anglos as perhaps exotic" ,
implies that she is not an English, and she is viewed as a foreign everywhere. "exotic" connotes both
positive and negatives feelings that whites people have on her. But she is not sure. Whites may consider
that their race subordinates than theirs. But she instantly knows that she is treated differently than
others. But she might
[Message #7 11:47:39 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
MARIE HOM:
Legal Alien-The title means that she is legally a citizen, but she is treated like an alien in both of her
cultures.
"Bi-lingual, Bi-Cultural"- shows that she can speak Spanish and English and that she understands both
the way her Mexican culture works and her American culture.
"able to slip from "Hows life?" to "Me'stan volviendo loca," "able to sit in a paneled office drafting
memos in smooth English, able to order in fluent Spanish at a Mexican restaurant," - shows she can
switch between speaking Spanish to English and vise versa smoothly.
"American but hyphenated." - Represents when people refer to her as a Mexican-American with the
hyphen between the two words showing that she is categorized as a different kind of American because
she is Mexican.
"Viewed by Anglos as perhaps exotic, perhaps inferior, definitely different, viewed as Mexicans as alien,
(their eyes say, "You may speak Spanish but you're not like me") - She feels that in America she is viewed
as an exotic person and that she in inferior to them because she is Mexican. Even her Mexican peers
view her differently because she is Americanized, that although she may speak Spanish fluently she is
still different because she is American.
"A handy token"- it is a handy token because she can switch between cultures and languages smoothly.
"sliding back and forth between the fringes of both worlds by smiling by masking the discomfort of being
pre-judged" - she pretends to be comfortable in both cultures. In reality she is uncomfortable because
she knows she is being pre-judged by both cultures.
The poem is expresses how she cannot fit into both cultures without being judged. In the end she learns
to accept things the way they are because no matter what she will always be viewed as a MexicanAmerican.
[Message #8 11:47:45 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Genevieve Katoa:
Arielle: I agree with your idea of the narrator viewing the American culture as more on the "all work, no
play" side and the Mexican culture as more family-oriented. In American she can express aloud her
professional thoughts,"How's life?" and in Spanish, her real, down-to-earth thoughts,"They're driving me
crazy!"
[Message #9 11:50:28 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Riana Mesias:
Ariana, that's interesting that you interpreted the "paneled office, drafting memos" to how America is
and "a Mexican restaurant" to belonging and family. I never saw it that way, but I did in a similar way. I
said that the writer feels trapped as provided by the "paneled office", but feels free because s/he is
"able to order" whereas when working s/he is trapped. Good interpretation!
[Message #10 11:52:16 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Genevieve Katoa:
I didn't analyze her word choices as much as you two did, and I am learning to focus in more on words
rather than lines. You had a good interpretation, too Riana! :)
[Message #11 11:55:34 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Arielle Bronson:
i can see we all have a pretty clear agreement on the meaning of the poem
[Message #12 11:55:47 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Riana Mesias:
I think that Ariana's End can relate to Karen's idea of a war, in which s/he has to take to take one side.
But I think s/he is more like taking both sides and hiding it.
[Message #13 11:56:05 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Riana Mesias:
Me too, I think that we're all in agreement.
[Message #14 11:56:56 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Genevieve Katoa:
Mathwe, I like your analysis on the word "exotic" and how it can have positive and negative
associations. Throughout the poem, we can see that she is very torn and enjoys the positives/benefits of
both cultures, but hides the negativity she feels of not fully belonging to either.
[Message #15 11:57:40 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Arielle Bronson:
i dont so much think that she feels she has to take one side over the other, but more so of just wanting
to feel accepted by one
[Message #16 11:58:22 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Riana Mesias:
What do you guys think about the "handy token" I was kind of confused on that part. Any
interpretations?
[Message #17 11:58:36 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Genevieve Katoa:
I agree with you Arielle, which brings us back to the title "Legal Alien"
[Message #18 11:58:50 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Arielle Bronson:
i think the handy token just refers to what a few people brought up before...
[Message #19 11:59:13 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Mathwe Han:
yeah . me, too. i am kinda of confued when she uses the metaphor " a handy token"
[Message #20 11:59:23 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Arielle Bronson:
"handy token" meaning some benefits of being able to go back and forth between both culltures
s
[Message #21 11:59:34 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Riana Mesias:
I totally agree with Arielle, I feel that wants to belong, but specially with both cultures.
[Message #22 11:59:35 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Genevieve Katoa:
I thought she was referring to herself as a token, sort of like a coin. A coin is a form of currency and is
always travelling from here to there. Much like herself, she is constantly moving between the two
worlds of her culture.
[Message #23 11:59:53 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Arielle Bronson:
she can oder fluently at a mexican resturant and also draft up a smooth english writen memo
[Message #24 12:00:13 PM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Arielle Bronson:
kaota i agree
[Message #25 12:00:33 PM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Arielle Bronson:
and in addition to a coin there are two sides as in the story there are two cultures
[Message #26 12:00:41 PM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Riana Mesias:
I think of a token as like a token you can use to get access to something, but also the idea of being
"used" over and over again. Perhaps s/he is tired of it?
[Message #27 12:01:02 PM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Genevieve Katoa:
I think the "handy" part refers to her usefulness at her job because she can use her Spanish to order and
her English to communicate the order to her job.
[Message #28 12:01:06 PM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Riana Mesias:
Good point Arielle! I didn't get that.
[Message #29 12:01:13 PM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Mathwe Han:
i interpret the token as having both sides. is she trying to say that she has two identities and cultures
and she can interchange both
[Message #30 12:01:41 PM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Riana Mesias:
mathwe, that's a good point too, Arielle interpreted that also.
[Message #31 12:02:10 PM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Genevieve Katoa:
Yes, Riana. A token plays the role of a middle-man. They are "used" to get information across, for
example at her job.
[Message #32 12:02:30 PM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Riana Mesias:
That's a good point I never saw that! The middle man.
Interchange Conference Transcript
I:\DIWE5NET\CLASSES\kwong03\CHAT\PapaWaltz
[Message #2 11:43:06 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Kira Ostapenko:
Title:
Possibly father's dance, how it is similar or different to the actual waltz
Stanza 1:
The boy is saying his father's breath is very strong from alcohol and can make a kid dizzy from it
so that he himself is not walking straight. The boy tried hard to not fall possibly. "such waltzing was not
easy" is true because a waltz is a very structured dance that is taken seriously so the boy is having
difficulty with his father.
Stanza 2:
Pans are falling from shelves probably because the kid is being thrown against them violently,
and the mother feels helpless and useless because she can't prevent this violence against the child
because she herself is probably also abused and is scared to do anything because she will be abused
further.
Stanza 3:
Knuckle is battered because he might have thrown a punch at either the boy or the mother or
possible self inflicted, which is less likely. This shows that he's an angry drunk. The father is probably
holding the boy so every time the father missed a step physically because he's drunk, the boy would get
hurt because he would get hit against a buckle, or probably less literally, against the floor.
Stanza 4:
This is probably showing literally how the kid was beaten by a dirty hand and at the end of the
night is carried off to bed, still gripping on for his life.
I think this poem is about a father that when he is drunk, abuses his family. This poem is related to
"Daddy" in that both authors' are not pleased with their fathers. In "Daddy" we said that the narrator
might have been abused in some way by her father, which is related to this poem.
[Message #3 11:43:11 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Patricia Stillman:
My Papa's Waltz, Papa is a very endearing word, so much more than just Dad. The signifies that no one
else's waltz is anything like the narrator's Papa's waltz. The whiskey on your breath, I understand a lot of
people take this a line very much to heart that it signifies a drunken alcoholic man. However I do not see
it this way, alcohol has a very strong sent and to a small boy it can be and over whelming smell. As this is
expressed in the second line, could make a small boy dizzy. But I hung on like death, the word death has
such a negative connotation especially if you pair it with a word like whiskey. However in taking whiskey
as a non-negative word death is not nearly as potent and then signifies the ultimate type of grip as the
boy hangs on to his dad. Such waltzing was not easy, the man is not the best dancer and maybe a little
buzzed from the whiskey but just the same the boy was still hanging on. We romped until the pans/ Slid
from the kitchen shelf; they are not so much as doing as serious dance but play housing. My mother's
countenance Could not unfrown itself, the mother is upset but perhaps it's because her is house is being
destroyed.
[Message #4 11:43:13 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Emma Quadra:
Stanza 1-2: the father is probably an alcoholic for the boy to get dizzy over his breath
Stanza 3: the boy hung on "like death" could be a simile for not wanting to let go
Stanza4: not only is a waltz not easy, but holding on to someone who is drunk is not easy too because
they are basically in another world
Stanza 5-6: I think this suggests that maybe the dad could be heavy since the pans would fall off the
shelf and that also they were dancing sort of recklessly which coincides with his drunkenness.
Stanza 7-8: The boy was probably standing on his dad's feet as they danced that's why his ear would
brush against the father's
Stanza 9: I'm not sure what this means, "You beat time on my head," maybe the times that he was drunk
took away time he could have spent sober with his son?
Stanza 10: since it says, "with a palm caked hard by dirt," I thought it could mean that the father works
hard. Usually if a man's hands are rough or dirty it could suggest hard labor or working with his hands.
Stanza 11-12: the waltzing put the child to sleep and he is still holding on tight since he was "still clinging
to your shirt." Or he would waltz him off to bed, but the child did not want to let go yet because then
the father would leave could explain the "clinging."
I think this poem is about an alcoholic father who doesn't spend much time with his child and what little
time he spends with him, the child does not want to let go completely when the time spent is done.
[Message #5 11:43:16 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Orion Smith:
In the first stanza the poet is describing his childhood and his relationship with his father during this
period. He describes his father as smelling like whiskey; in the second line this is taken even further
giving the impression that his father was a heavy drinker. At the end of the stanza he describes his
emotions as a young child with an alcoholic dad, in that he still clung to and loved his father although it
was tough to do.
In the second stanza the poet describes how his father would play with him, he uses the word romped
which describes this sort of playing as out of control and crazy. He also describes the sadness that was
constantly on his mother's face.
In the third stanza he is further describing his dad this time with a battered knuckle, which could be
understood as marks from beating the mother or from falling because of his drunkenness. He also talks
more about his father's drunkenness as he describes that every drunken stumble that his father made,
his dad's belt buckle would scrape his ear, as he was still young and only up to his father's waist.
In the last stanza the poet uses a metaphor of beating time on his head, which means that he had to
grow up fast as a little kid in order to deal with the problems that his father was causing at home. Then
he describes how even after all these things his father had done he still clung to him as any normal son
would have done.
In summation this poem is about a young boy and his alcoholic dad. Although his dad does everything
wrong, the boy still can't let go of him.
[Message #6 11:43:38 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Patricia Stillman:
Sorry it's not complete. I had some computer troubles.
[Message #7 11:44:22 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Daniel Detrinidad:
My Papa Waltz's
Stanza 1 The whiskey on your breath
Could make a small boy dizzy
But I hung on like death
Such waltzing was not easy.
Stanza 2 We romped until the pans
Slid from the kitchen shelf;
My mother 's countenance
Could not unfrown itself.
Stanza 3 The hand that held my wrist
Was battered on one knuckle;
At every step you missed
My right ear scraped a buckle.
Stanza 4 You beat time on my head
With a palm caked hard by dirt,
Then waltzed me off to bed
Still clinging to your shirt.
The term "papa" in My Papa Waltz title is a childhood saying about a how a child felt secured and loved
by their father. In stanza one we see the boy's father as an extremely hard alcoholic who loved to drink
whiskey and the boy felt disgusted by the way his dad smelled and acted and that he could not leave his
father. In Stanza 2 the boy goes into his father abusive behavior and how his mother tried to defend her
son. In Stanza 3 and 4 the boy describes his abused and constanly he tried to hold on for dear life. This
poem is about a boys struggle to have a relationship with his father but can't due to this cycle of
violence caused by his father and also this poem relates to the poem "daddy"
[Message #8 11:46:54 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Daniel Detrinidad:
I think that the term waltzing in the poem relates to the title and fathers name n waltzing was another
term for beating
[Message #9 11:47:11 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Zena Tarasena:
Theodore Roethke (1908-1963)
My Papa's Waltz 1948
Stanza 1
Whiskey on your breath means alcoholism. The fumes so strong shows how soaked his father was.
Make a small boy dizzy. He felt like he would go insane. (Roethke was bipolar)
I hung on like death. He loved his father because his father worked hard for him, but life was not easy
due to the abuse he suffered from his alcoholic father.
Such waltzing is a metaphor for life.
Stanza 2
Romped is a metaphor for fight. Father is beating the child in the kitchen.
Mother can do nothing, only watch helplessly.
Stanza 3
Father grabbed him by the wrist
The boy noticed his father had smashed a knuckle as he threw punches, but missed, probably hitting a
shelf.
Father may have used his belt, catching the child's ear with the buckle.
Stanza 4
You beat time on my head. Means that the child remembers the hard slaps to the head with the palm
caked with dirt from hard labor on a farm.
Waltzed me off to bed - Threw him aside.
Still clinging to your shirt. Although the child hates his father for his drunken abuse he still loves his
father.
[Message #10 11:48:39 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Patricia Stillman:
Beating time, as in a beat or rythm of the waltz. Tap, tap tap with his finger or hand.
[Message #11 11:49:35 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Daniel Detrinidad:
@ zena i agree with you that the boy wants a relationship with his father but can't cause his father is
very abusive to him which relates to the poem "daddy"
[Message #12 11:49:49 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Daniel Detrinidad:
beating as in being abusive
[Message #13 11:50:44 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Kira Ostapenko:
it could be that he's holding on kind of hoping that the father he knows will return soon or something
[Message #14 11:50:46 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Zena Tarasena:
I think this poem is similar to Daddy in that both authors write about a love hate relationship with their
fathers. Both suffered abuse, Roethke physical and Plath mental abuse.
[Message #15 11:50:46 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Patricia Stillman:
Taken out of the poem I find the last two lines to be romanic, waltzed me off to bed/ still clinging to your
shirt.
[Message #16 11:50:57 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Emma Quadra:
I agree too that he wants a relationship therefore he clings to him at the end
[Message #17 11:52:13 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Kira Ostapenko:
i don't get why the mother didn't do anything. liek if my kid was being hit i'd try to defend them even if
it meant i'd get hurt
[Message #18 11:52:24 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Daniel Detrinidad:
maybe he wants to help out his father and get him help because he knows that he can't hate his father
because thats his father
[Message #19 11:53:04 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Daniel Detrinidad:
maybe the mother was scared she could have been abused to and she might of have no one to go to
[Message #20 11:53:06 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Kira Ostapenko:
you can't really hate/love someone you don't have a relationship with
[Message #21 11:56:46 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Kira Ostapenko:
it's interesting how both Daddy and My Papa's Waltz use nice words for dad, like both of them don't
really liek their fathers or know them yet they say dad in a nicer way as if there is a relationship
[Message #22 11:57:32 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Emma Quadra:
maybe it gives them a sense of closure?
[Message #23 11:57:36 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Orion Smith:
maybe becasue they want relationships with them
[Message #24 11:57:43 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
karen wong:
I wonder why the dance was a waltz. What characterizes a waltz, and how does it give us insight about
this father/child relationship?
[Message #25 11:58:54 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Daniel Detrinidad:
yea it's just proves that their hypocrits and how bad their relationships with thier dads were bad ones
[Message #26 11:59:43 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Kira Ostapenko:
waltz is done in partners and is structured and i feel the pairs move across the whole dancefloor so in
this case u got a pair (father and son) and the father takes the son throughout the whole house probably
throwing him everywhere and hitting him
[Message #27 12:00:44 PM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Daniel Detrinidad:
Waltz probably defines how hard their relationship was the waltz is hard dance to do n the boy
symbolizes waltzing as a relationship with his father
Interchange Conference Transcript
I:\DIWE5NET\CLASSES\kwong03\CHAT\WearMask
[Message #2 11:43:53 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Jeianne Victoria:
I think the title We Wear the Mask means that the people talked about in the poem show different
expressions then what they really feel, as if they are trying to hide something. In Stanza 1, the line "We
wear the mask that grins and lies" shows that they wear a mask or show different facial expressions, like
a smile, to lie about their true feelings. "It hides our cheeks and shades our eyes - This debt we pay to
human guile;" shows that they are seen happy but deep down inside they really aren't. "With torn and
bleeding hearts we smile, and mouth with myriad subtleties" they are covering up the pain with smiles.
The question that I asked in this stanza is what is the reason for wearing the mask? Why are they
unhappy and why can't they just show it? In Stanza 2, the question "Why should the world be over-wise,
in counting all our tears and sighs?" I'm not sure who the question is directed to, but I think it is to the
people who surrounds the one's with the mask on, or the people who hurt them. "Nay, let them only
see us, while We wear the mask" they only want to be seen happy and not sad or in tears. In stanza 3
"We smile, but, O great Christ, our cries…" I think the author referred to Christ because in religious
beliefs he's the one people turn to when they are down. They smile but deep down, they still cry.
"Beneath our feet, and long the mile; but let the world dream otherwise; We wear the mask!" they wear
the masks to cover up but what is the purpose of hiding?
[Message #3 11:44:43 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Justin Narayan:
We Wear the Mask, gave me the impression that this poem will be about hiding ones appearance or
emotions. In the first stanza, I got that the author was trying portray an image of using a mask to put a
front. In the second line, "it hides our cheeks and shades our eyes", can be metaphoric for the mask to
be hiding the truth or covering what's real. Line five, "and mouth with myriad subtleties", really stuck
out to me because it could have a variety of meanings by the way the author phrased it. From that line I
got that a person has the ability to use their mouth in many ways, but I believe the author is trying to
say that many people use their mouth to lie or deceive others. In the last two lines of the second stanza,
"nay, let them only see us, while we wear the mask", the author is saying that people are afraid to
express themselves in fear of what others may think, so they hide behind a mask and pretend all is well.
The people are avoiding their true self by wearing a mask.
[Message #4 11:44:49 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
john stoller:
"We wear the mask" to me is a poem about a man just going through the motions of life. It
seems like he's pretending that he's happy but he's really miserable ."This debt we pay to human guile;
with torn and bleeding hearts we smile" (Dunbar 594). Why dosen't this man want to conform or go
with society? Why would he keep pretending? "why should the world be over-wise, In counting all our
tears and sighs?"( Dunbar 595). It sounds like someone knows he's faking it and wants to him to break
out of his old routine and tell somebody what's going on with him but he is so stuck on wearing that
mask that he won't let anybody in. I can relate to that in my own life. In school sometimes I sit and
pretend that I know whats going on but im really lost. It would be way easier in the long run to just raise
my hand and ask for help but its hard to ask for help. Im used to being in my own and just wearing the
mask myself. This story was about a lost soul trying to become free in this harsh world" let the world
dream otherwise, We wear the mask!" (Dumbar 595).
[Message #5 11:46:00 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Matthew Juan:
Prompt: First number each of the stanzas. Then going stanza by stanza, and perhaps even line by line,
provide a "narrative" of your understanding of the poem, much like I did in class on Monday. Start with
the title, and as you continue, consider word connotations (i.e., flake vs. free spirit-- what you may
associate with certain terms), symbolism, metaphors, similes, allusions to other literary works, persons,
places, or events, and/or oppositions. To wrap up your analysis, write a one-to-two sentence summation
of what the poem is "about," and also identify one other poem that connects thematically with yours, as
well as what that theme is.
Title: We Wear the Mask seems like a cover up from showing who we really are as a person.
Stanza 1 by line
We wear the mask that grins and lies- it is like our alter ego .It hides our cheeks and shades our eyes- the
mask covers and shades who we really are. This debt we pay to human guile- we owe for our being
deceptive to other by wearing this mask. With torn and bleeding hearts we smile- even if we are hurting
on the inside this mask covers our weakness. And mouth with myriad subtleties- so myriad means great
number.
Stanza 2
Why should the world be over-wise, In counting all our tears and sighs?- Why should the world see our
weakness and judge us .Nay, let them only see us, while We wear the mask. -We shall only show the
world what we wish we wish to show. Hide our weakness or imperfections.
Stanza 3
We smile, but, O great Christ, our cries- like putting up a front of how we feel but deep inside we are
hurting for our difference. In thee from tortured souls arise.- Deep inside we are hurt by the hurtful
words so we have the mask. We sing, but oh the clay is vile- It says that our real self is unpleasant and
not good enough. Beneath our feet, and long the mile- the obstacle of dealing with hurtful things. But
let the world dream otherwise, we wear the mask.- Let others think they know who we are but they only
see the mask( our outside appearance) and not who we really are behind the mask.
The theme of this poem would be about hiding our imperfections from others and wearing ask to cover
who we really are as a person. We feel that we will be judged and receive hurtful remarks about our
flaws and imperfections. So we wear a mask to cover the flaws of our look or personality.
[Message #6 11:46:07 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Melanie Martin:
Stanza 1 - 2: The mask they wear is full of fake features. Their grin isn't a real smile; they are concealing
their real features that may show tearful emotions. They wear the mask to hide their tears.
Stanza 3 - 5: I think the "debt" that they are paying is for the being black. They are wearing the mask to
hide their pain and act as if everything is ok when it really isn't. Instead of speaking of their pain they
speak of "myriad subtleties" or a lot about everything being fine.
Stanza 6 - 9: I think they're saying, why should the world care about them and all the torture they are
going through? Then in the last two stanzas they're saying "nay" or no, the world can't see them unless
they are wearing the mask.
Stanza 10 - 11: They are crying out to Christ for help and mercy. They're smiling but dying inside and
need help.
Stanza 12 - 15: "We sing" reminds me how slaves use to sing of their escape. I think when they talk
about the clay being vile, they're talking about the place that they are in is unpleasant and wretched.
"Long the mile" also reminds me of slaves and how far they have left to go to be free. And the last two
stanzas I think they're talking about the American or white society, like until the "world" sees that how
they are treating the slaves is wrong, they'll continue to wear the mask.
[Message #7 11:48:41 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
karen wong:
Good points about the person feeling that they need to hide something. Given that the poem is under
"Culture and Identity," what more can we infer about the context of the poem?
[Message #8 11:49:47 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Val Tosheff:
The poem "We wear the Mask" reveals two sides of our personality. One side is the real personal selfconcept, the way we feel ourselves, versus our self-impression that we imply in other people's
perceptions, which is represented by "the mask". According to the author the mask "hides our cheeks
and shades our eyes", the face feature that most prominently express mood, because we want to cover
our realness, so we could not become victims of "human guile" (Dunbar 594). A smile created by
"mouth with myriad subtleties" is what we show to the world, but this smile is our conscious effort to
hide our "torn and bleeding hearts" (Dunbar 594).
The "over-wise" world is too Judgmental and it seems to count " all our tears and sighs" much more than
our real smiles of happiness, so we become more afraid from rejection, and it builds in us resentment
from expressing our negative emotions. But wearing this mask is an extra burden, and sometimes
feel8ing weak unable to put the mask on, it easier to isolate our selves because we "let (people) only see
us, while wearing the mask". "We smile" "from tortured soul" which arises our pain.
[Message #9 11:50:06 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
karen wong:
Great connection with your own life, John (message #4). We also gain more insight about "this debt we
pay to human guile," in this case not really understanding what was taught unless we ask.
[Message #10 11:51:41 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Justin Narayan:
jeianna - great points, never looked at how the mask could symbolize the different expressions people
may feel. You have great quotes to support your ideas. Also, I like your thought of why the author
referenced Christ into his poem. I didn't understand why he did when reading the poem, but it makes
sence now after reading your freewrite.
[Message #11 11:56:33 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Justin Narayan:
John - I had the same thoughts of this poems you did. I also think its about someone who puts on a mask
to show others that he is well, when actually he is really feeling miserable.
[Message #12 11:56:39 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Matthew Juan:
Melanie- I liked your outlook on it and how it has to deal with the slaves and the struggles they are
facing. Because it is under culture and identity it gives more meaning behind the poem
[Message #13 11:57:53 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
john stoller:
i think everybody did great. i noticed alot of us had some of the same quotes. has anybody seen the
movie The Mask with Jim Carry? he put on this magic mask and turns into this funny guy that can do
anything he wants but in real life he was a nobody. thats like this poem
[Message #14 11:58:54 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Jeianne Victoria:
justin- thanks. i didnt realize it to be that way either until i reread it. i think you got a good point when
you mentioned that the person has the ability to use their mouth in many ways as to, to lie or deceive
other.
john- its cool how you related it to yourself, and thinking about, i could relate to your same situation
where in class i hide and dont ask question even tho it would be easier for me.
matthew- i agree when you say that grins and lies are like our alter ego.
melanie- i like how you referred to "we sing" as how slaves use to sing of their escape.
val- i agree when you say that the title reveals two sides of our persnality
[Message #15 11:59:30 AM, Wednesday, February 24, 2010]
Matthew Juan:
John- when i was reading this poem thats exactly what i thought of the movie The mask. Jim Carey
seems to have more confidence in himself after having this mask.