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WA News
October 4, 2015 12:00am
TREVOR PADDENBURG PerthNow
Most cyclists were clocked above 20km/h. Photo: Alf Sorbello
90 of 150 cyclists clocked faster than 20km/h on shared paths
Currently no legally enforced cycle limit on shared paths in WA
Stirling council wants 20km/h limit on busy West Coast Drive
Calls for safer bike lanes and remodelled highways for cyclists
What do you think? Have your say and vote in our poll below
THREE in five cyclists are exceeding 20km/h on Perth’s most popular shared paths.
And the fastest cyclists are clocking more than 40km/h – a speed that could cause broken bones or serious injury for
riders and pedestrians involved in a collision.
The Sunday Times used a radar gun to speed test 150 cyclists at five popular shared path locations across Perth.
A total of 90 out of 150 riders were clocked above 20km/h.
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A further 14 riders were recorded above 30km/h, but slower riders brought the average speed down to 22km/h.
There are no legally enforceable speed limits on shared paths in WA.
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But councils say many of them are designed for a safe cycle speed of about 20km/h.
The highest speeds were recorded on the coastal shared path on West Coast Drive at Trigg, where the average speed
was 25km/h and the highest speed was 42km/h.
Cyclists also averaged 25km/h on the Kwinana Freeway shared path at Como, followed by an average of 24km/h on
Mounts Bay Road along the Swan River foreshore at Crawley, where the fastest rider was also clocked at 42km/h.
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Cyclist Wayne Hetherington said every path user needed to be aware. Not just cyclists. Photo: Alf Sorbello.
It comes after The Sunday Timesrevealed cyclists face a 20km/h speed limit enforced with fines under a radical
proposal.
City of Stirling council this month voted to call on Main Roads to install legally enforceable speed zone signs to protect
pedestrians along the West Coast Drive shared path.
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Stirling, Perth’s biggest council, wants cyclist speeds limited to the “safe design speed of 20km/h”.
Main Roads said it was waiting to hear from City of Stirling about the idea.
Transport Minister Dean Nalder has questioned how it could be enforced.
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Absolutely.
Yes, but who would regulate it?
No, a speed limit is not needed.
Cyclists should have their own paths.
Cyclists should just use the road.
Vote now!
View Results
Bicycle Transport Alliance convener Peter Bartlett called for better bike lanes on roads.
Bicycling WA chief executive Jeremey Murray said safe cycling was about riding to suit the conditions.
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“If you’re riding on a straight path at 6am with no one around, it’s quite OK to go at a decent speed” he said.
“Cyclists don’t want to risk a collision because they’ll also get knocked off the bike too. Broken bones are one thing but
there is significant chance of soft tissue damage too.”
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Matt Fulton, chief executive of state cycling umbrella group WestCycle, called for common sense and said “if
pedestrians are around, you don’t go whizzing past at a ridiculous speed”.
“The real solution though is better infrastructure so you can separate pedestrians and cyclists in high traffic scenarios,”
Mr Fulton said.
North Beach real estate agent Trish Sullivan, 52, who walks and rides along West Coast Drive regularly, said the
shared path was too busy with walkers, joggers, dogs and children for cyclists to ride at speed.
“They need to remodel the road so it has a dedicated bike lane,” she said, a call echoed by other walkers including
Danielle Smith, 41, of Sorrento, and Janelle Eagle, 40, of Padbury.
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Cyclists Danielle Smith and Janelle Eagle want roads to have dedicated bike lanes. Photo: Alf Sorbello
Greenwood father Trent Hunt, 33, said he had to be careful on the path with his one-year-old son, Hugo, because “the
odd cyclist comes through a bit quick”.
Cyclist Wayne Hetherington, 47, said riders copped a lot of criticism but pedestrians also had a responsibility.
“A lot of the time people walking take up both lanes or don’t control their dogs. It’s about everyone being aware,” he
said.
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OUR CAMERA LOCATIONS
PerthNow and The Sunday Times used a radar gun to sample the speeds of 150 cyclists at five different shared path
locations across Perth on Saturday, September 5.
Shared paths are designated for use by bicyclists and pedestrians, with bike riders urged not to exceed 20km/h.
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Trigg is one of many popular coastal routes for cyclists.
1. TRIGG
Location: West Coast Drive near Lynn Street
Number of cyclists speed tested: 30
Number of cyclists above 20km/h: 24
Highest speed: 42km/h
Lowest speed: 18km/h
Average speed: 25km/h
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Cyclists and joggers share the path in North Beach.
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2. NORTH BEACH
Location: West Coast Drive and Malcolm Street
Number of cyclists speed tested: 30
Number of cyclists above 20km/h: 17
Highest speed: 32km/h
Lowest speed: 13km/h
Average speed: 22km/h
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Cyclists on the path in Crawley.
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3. CRAWLEY
Location: Mounts Bay Road
Number of cyclists speed tested: 30
Number of cyclists above 20km/h: 21
Highest speed: 42km/h
Lowest speed: 10km/h
Average speed: 24km/h
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A cyclist slows down in Applecross.
4. APPLECROSS
Location: Canning Beach Road and Moreau Road
Number of cyclists speed tested: 30
Number of cyclists above 20km/h: 6
Highest speed: 35km/h
Lowest speed: 14km/h
Average speed: 18km/h
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A cyclist clocked in Como.
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5. COMO
Location: Kwinana Freeway
Number of cyclists speed tested: 30
Number of cyclists above 20km/h: 22
Highest speed: 35km/h
Lowest speed: 17km/h
Average speed: 25km/h
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TOTAL
Number of cyclists speed tested: 150
Number of cyclists above 20km/h: 90
Average speed: 22km/h
WHAT MAINS ROADS SAYS ABOUT RIDING ON A SHARED PATH
Shared paths have no recommended cycle speed limit but Main Roads says cyclists must:
not ride recklessly or without due care and attention.
give way to a pedestrian who is on, or is crossing, a separated footpath or shared path.
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What do you think of Perth’s cycle paths?
CYCLEWAYS FAIL OPINION POLL TEST
SATISFACTION with cycleways and footpaths has slumped to a three-year low.
The latest Main Roads annual report shows 76 per cent of cyclists and pedestrians were satisfied, 14 per cent below
the target and a drop of 17 per cent on the year before.
Eight cyclists and 17 pedestrians died in 2014-15, accounting for 13 per cent of road fatalities.
Serious pedestrian and cyclist incidents were described as a “growing concern”.
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WestCycle chief executive Matt Fulton said better traffic infrastructure which puts bike riders “at the front of thinking
was needed.
“Even in today’s day and age there are roadworks being undertaken right now that are going to make cycling a higher
risk alternative,” he said.
“Putting islands in the middle of roads are one of the most dangerous thing for a cyclists as cars try to squeeze past at
speed and we too often see the devastating results.
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“The fear of individual safety is the number one reason why people don’t ride a bike.”
Mr Fulton called for separated bike lanes, legislative changes and harsher penalties for road users.
A trial of pedestrian countdown traffic signals in Perth CBD — which tell pedestrians how long they have to cross —
were a success. No crashes were recorded and 95 per cent of the public approved.
Interactive Gallery: Top 10 bike rides in WA
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Newest | Oldest | Top Comments
B
2 hours ago
Cyclists reckon they own the road and cars must give way to them. OK
They do not own the footpaths they must give way to pedestrians even if they dont like it
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They think they own the footpaths as well. On a footpath slow down
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Rob
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22 minutes ago
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@B "They" don't think they own anything, just happy to be given enough space to make use of roads or
paths, and most if not all extend the same courtesy to pedestrians on shared paths. there are a few bad
apples in every demographic, but it's not bad pedestrians or bad cyclists who kill approximately 1000
Australians per year.
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Wes
Reply
5 hours ago
"Currently, more than 60 per cent of children are driven to school – contributing to about 17 per cent of peak traffic
and childhood obesity.
In monetary terms, the cost of traffic congestion – delays, harmful emissions and stress that results from being stuck
at a standstill – was estimated at $13.7 billion in 2005.
That was predicted to skyrocket to $53.3 billion by 2031"
- Australian Council of Learned Academies, 06/10/15.
Motorists are stuffing the place up, literally the air and the roads. Where is my tax rebate for easing this by making
the sacrifice of commuting on my 10kg love handle burning pushbike in 3oC winter mornings?
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Rob
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4 hours ago
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And the excuse most parents give for not walking or riding to school with their kids? It's too dangerous
because there is too much traffic! Talk about a self fulfilling prophecy.
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Stephen
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1 day ago
Bike paths are provided alongside most roads,,,,if cyclists want dedicated bike lanes on the roads then I suggest that
there needs to be some form of licence fee for each and every bicycle on the road.
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Richard
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1 day ago
@Stephen why?
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Ricky
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Reply
1 day ago
@Stephen "Bike paths are provided alongside most roads"
No they are not. The 'path' alongside most roads is not a bike path. Plus as a moving vehicle, how'd you
like it if you had to stop at every junction, driveway or other obstacle to give way to or check for traffic?
My 30km commute would take 3hrs.
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Rob
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23 hours ago
Bike paths are rarely provided along any roads, there are a few nice shared paths and a few bikes
stencilled into a narrow shoulder. If and when vehicle registration starts paying for road building and
maintenance then you have a point, but it doesn't.
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Cycleops70
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13 hours ago
"Licence fees" do not pay for road infrastructure. Taxes do.
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Rego, is the cost associated with regulation of a dangerous vehicle.
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Wes
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1 day ago
This fine piece of journalism will undoubtedly provide further justification in the minds of some more implusive, less
evolved motorists, that if there's a car V cyclist accident, the cyclist probably deserved it.
So i'd strongly recommend cyclists get themselves front and rear cameras. Very important in the unfortunate
circumstance u get hit by a car and end up with major medical bills etc. As can be seen by comments made here,
plenty of motorists have furtive imaginations. You dont want to be caught up in yr word vs theirs scenario, assuming
they dont just drive off after hitting u - as is their want here.
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Phil
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1 day ago
@Wes Then stay off of the road.
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Clay
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21 hours ago
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@Phil @Wes Then stay out of the car.
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dan
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21 hours ago
@Phil @Wes Wonder what your attitude might be Phil if your child or grandchild was run down by an a
motorist? Would you be standing up delivering the eulogy saying "they should have stayed off the road"?
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Ricky
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20 hours ago
@Phil I just don't understand the motoring mentality. It's almost like if you prefer riding to driving, there is
something wrong with you and you should probably have been sterilised at birth to avoid potentially
spreading the disease. We're all humans; some just prefer a different mode of transport/recreation.
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Kenny
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1 day ago
Well done catching these speeders at a bottom of a hill...
Champagne journalism as usual Perth now.
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Wes
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1 day ago
Seeing as the surveys say more people would like to ride bikes but are too scared to ride on perth roads because of
angry or distracted motorists, aussies are getting fatter and sicker due to being inactive, bigger overseas cities are
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having car restrictions due to smog problems, and perth now has proven cyclists should not be on cycleways, the
one lane of the freeway should be segregated off for only cyclists.
Brilliant!!
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Stephen
Reply
2 days ago
The issue is not speed,,,,either cyclists or motorists,,,the issue is the lack of respect a lot of people have for others
these days. Its all about the "I" and not about the "us"
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julia
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2 days ago
I wouldn't have a problem with cyclists using shared roads if they actually used their bells to warn me of their
approach. I can't count the amount of times I have walked on shared paths and a cyclist has flown past me.
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Rob
Reply
2 days ago
@julia have a glance through the comments, there are several complaining about people using bells and
several complaining about not using bells. Honestly I don't think you can win. For me I try to judge each
situation on its own merits and don't always use my bell.
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Kevin
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2 days ago
I don't know who made up this 20 kph speed as a meaningful goal.
Maybe it came from the KPI put against transport planners in some European cities.
They are pushing to get door to door average speeds by bicycle up from 16 kph to 20 kph across the whole cycling
community. Good cycle paths are part of this picture.
But a 20 kph door to door average requires riding speeds of 25 to 30 kph.
The aim of this transport goal is to remove or minimise stoppage and slowing points for cyclists, with the goal of
making cycle commuting faster and more efficient than private car.
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Rob
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2 days ago
@Kevin 20kmh might be a quite reasonable limit in some cases, but not sure why it should be blanket
limit to all paths as all paths are not equal. It's like saying 40kmh is a reasonable road speed limit in some
places so all roads should have a 40kmh limit.
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Phil
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2 days ago
@Rob @Kevin Because you don't pay rego that has 3rd party covered, so if you hit someone the
medical bills aren't covered by the government if you were travelling over 20kmph
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Rob
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2 days ago
@Phil @Rob @Kevin I have insurance (3rd party) on my contents insurance. Many cyclists are
members of the state org or local racing club, that has insurance built in. Others choose to purchase
specific cycling insurance.
If there was such a big burden of costs resulting from uninsured cyclists maiming and killing people do you
honestly think the governments would not be the 1st to implement mandatory insurance, they love a new
revenue scheme. however there simply isn't actually a problem that needs solving.
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And as the notional 20kph limit doesn't actually exist, I'm not sure why the bills wouldn't be covered. I
think that the no fault insurance scheme in WA is extended to cycling now anyway, but I may be wrong
that
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Phil
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2 days ago
@Rob @Phil @Kevin No fault only applies to accidents involving a registered vehicle. Either way I
concede that the majority of bike riders are normal, moral people who are just out enjoying a leisurely ride,
but the minority (usually people either trying to get somewhere OR a battalion of lycra) assume superiority
and are a nuisance to everyone else be they on foot or machine alike.
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Rob
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2 days ago
@Phil @Rob @Kevin there is always a problem minority in anything involving people. But in the case of
cyclists, whilst they might be a nuisance, they aren't injuring and killing people, so whilst their behaviour
should be discouraged, should we really be pursuing ideas that discourage all cyclists and put more
people back into cars on the already congested roads?
Or should we invest in better education and better infrastructure for all?
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Kevin
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2 days ago
@Phil @Rob @Kevin I use the paths every day to commute to and from work, and I am surrounded by
large numbers of like-minded people, all riding at a comfortable 25 to 30kph.
The main hazards come from people who use the paths for jogging, walking the dog etc during rush hour
(7 to 9am, 4 to 6pm) .
I like jogging, walking etc but I would consider myself a fool to use cycle paths at this time when there are
much more attractive alternatives.
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By 2020 when we have ten times as many commuting cyclists we may need to consider cycling
"Clearways" with restrictions on use in order to make them safer for commuting cyclists who will be
recognised as the heroes of the transport space!
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B
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39 minutes ago
@Kevin @Phil @Rob well Hero you either share the path with walkers who you have to give way too or
get coathangered
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Rob
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26 minutes ago
@B @Kevin @Phil @Rob we do, no-one on here, or anywhere in the beat up article suggests cyclists
don't or won't give way to pedestrians. most paths are fine at more than 20kmh, if there is a pedestrian
and the way to pass is not clear there in plenty of room to slows to walking pace.
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John
Reply
2 days ago
Whilst I do have a speedometer on my bike the great majority of riders, especially the casual cyclists do not, so how
are they supposed to judge whether are travelling at 20km/h or higher? If I ride with my daughter with her tagalong
bike behind me on the weekends I struggle to stay below 20km/h (which isn't fast) so not sure how a person without
a speedo would have any idea what speed they are doing.
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Stephen
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2 days ago
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I ride to work on a daily basis from Como along the freeway cycle path and the Mounts Bay cycle path and then
through Kings Park. I ride between 28 and 33 km/h and will ring my bell many times to warn pedestrians and cyc
alike that I am approaching. There are a good many cyclists who for some reason have expensive bikes but for t
sake of their aerodynamics choose not to have a bell and give little or nor warning of their impending approach. I
know that they are going in excess of 40 km/h. Also there are sections where there is a continuous white line and
cyclists continue to overtake when unsafe to do so, a bit like driving a car, only overtake when safe to do so
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Colin
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2 days ago
Cyclists are the rudest and least tolerant of road users that I have ever witnessed. Have you ever been walking or
running along a shared pedestrian/bike path?
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Paul
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2 days ago
@Colin you are absolutely correct @Colin. Everything single one of us are born straight from the devil
himself. Never have I met a good one but I tell you what, everything single car driver I have come across
is safe, courteous, polite and really good at driving. Ill put my hand up right now to some of my own
cycling actions, keeping left, ringing a bell, slowing down for walkers, saying "Good morning" god forbid
what a person. I even say "Thank you" when someone politely makes room!!!!
But seriously whilst we are stereotyping, every single Colin I have met is boring, ignorant and makes
general sweeping statements with no factual backing.
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Richard
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1 day ago
Incorrect and salacious nonsense.
Get a life
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Phil
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2 days ago
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Speed limits for bikes all the way, this snot about riding for the conditions is bull, road users have been saying that for
years, but we still have speed limits, and we atleast pay taxes, bikes use valuable infrastructure and generate costs
on coffers but input nothing.
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Rob
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2 days ago
@Phil cyclists pay the same taxes, not sure how you think roads are funded?
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Phil
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2 days ago
@Rob @Phil Roads are funded by car licenses and registrations, not sure what taxes cyclists pay?
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Kevin
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2 days ago
@Phil @Rob Car licenses and rego do not even cover the cost of collecting them, just an administrative
issue.
None of this goes towards roads which are funded by Federal and state taxes also local council rates.
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Phil
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2 days ago
@Kevin @Phil @Rob We do however pay for the right to use the roads, and further more we have to
pay for each type of vehicle and each individual vehicle used on said roads. Where does any of that
cross over to cyclists?
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Rob
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2 days ago
@Phil @Kevin @Rob no you don't. you pay to register a motor vehicle. Only registered motor vehicles
may use the road. Why should that apply to bikes, if none of that funding is actually directed towards the
infrastructure. The roads, as a public good, are free at the point of use.
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Phil
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2 days ago
@Rob @Phil @Kevin If bikes want to use the road then why shouldn't they have to register? By your
logic, I shouldn't have to pay the majority of my taxes because they are going towards services and
infrastructure that I will never use.
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Rob
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2 days ago
@Phil @Rob @Kevin Because vehicle (motor vehicle) registration is to register the complex, powerful
and dangerous machines that are allowed on the network. which have to be operated by licenced
operators and have the potential to kill many people and damage a lot of property if not operated within
the rules.
My logic is that we all pay taxes, that get used on a huge number of things that we never use, for the
general good of society. I accept this and don't mistakenly believe that Rego is a tax or that it funds roads.
The registration scheme is only in operation because vehicles are big, heavy, dangerous machines. It only
really pays for itself and the insurance needed because of the damage and costs incurred when they are
operated incorrectly.
Neither of us get to pick and chose where our taxes go, beyond voting for the party who you think will
spend them best for you.
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Kevin
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2 days ago
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@Phil @Kevin @Rob There are no "Rights" when it comes to use of roads. The need for licenses for
both car and driver is in recognition that they constitute a "deadly force".
Car drivers are extremely privileged to be allowed to conduct their deadly weapon on a public
thoroughfare. It is allowed only under strict conditions and rules.
I am not smiling when I write this - try riding in Perth traffic and you will agree.
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Phil
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2 days ago
@Kevin @Phil @Rob I accept that a motor vehicle is a powerful and dangerous machine capable of
inflicting great damage and/or death if misused, equally a cyclist can potentially kill a pedestrian if they
collide with them at any speed but the faster that they are travelling the higher the chance, hence the
speed limit and if you break it then you should be fined. The argument about how you want to avoid that
because you could hurt yourself is irrelevant as motorbike riders have the same problem, then what about
'bikes' that have the cyclists seated and they pedal with their legs in a much more efficient position
allowing them even greater speed.
Furthermore, on roads cars don't have to contend with pedestrians in as much of a capacity as cyclists do
therefore the likelihood of a collision is far greater, also you don't have children on roads.
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Rob
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2 days ago
@Phil @Kevin @Rob a cyclist "can" kill a pedestrian, the potential is there, but the actual events aren't
happening to support the need complex and costly legislation to solve a problem that isn't happening.
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Motorbikes are a bit different as they can be a combine few hundred kilos and travel in excess of 100k
As a rule motorbikes will seek self preservation, but at speed when they do get it wrong the conseque
are far greater for themselves and others.
If there was a spate of cyclists killing and maiming hundreds of pedestrians and each other each year
then I would be beside you, arguing that bikes should be registed as they are clearly dangerous. But they
aren't, they are simple machines and relatively safe. Of course if they can be separated from cars and
pedestrians it would be great, but they can safely coexist with either with a bit of leeway on both sides.
Considering cars don't have to contend with pedestrians and children, there are hugely more pedestrians
and children killed and injured by cars than by bikes.
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Phil
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2 days ago
@Rob @Phil @Kevin I would be happy if cyclists were segregated from pedestrians and cars
completely, I agree that as a general rule injuries are few and far between. The majority of times that
there are deaths and injuries to cyclists are when they are on roads, most of these problems occurs
because the majority of cyclists don't adhere to the rules of the road, the rest are usually road rage
against cyclists because of the pain to road users they generally are. Keep bikes off of roads, let bikes
have a dedicated bike path OFF the road, pedestrians can have a normal footpath. Everyone's happy.
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Rob
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2 days ago
@Phil @Rob @Kevin I'd be all for segregated infrastructure, but it won't happen overnight.
Re. the stats on road injuries and fatalities, the poor cyclist behaviour (such as red light running) actually
causes very few. The majority of serious injuries and fatalities are caused when struck from behind when
riding to the far left by a vehicle which misjudges a gap or doesn't see the cyclist. second is cutting off a
cyclist when immediately beside them or just after passing, and then when pulling out into the path of a
cyclist.
The main source of cyclist caused incident seems to be undertaking a left turning vehicle, normally a truck
or bus, which cannot see the cyclist alongside.
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Road rage incidents are common, but rarely lead to actual contact or injury, but nevertheless, however
annoying you find someone, getting so worked up so as to use your vehicle as a weapon is unforgivable.
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Kim
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1 day ago
@Phil @Rob @Kevin I'm not sure where you get your claims on cyclists from, but the majority of cyclists
killed on WA roads are killed by drivers who strike the cyclist from behind or in a head-on collision when
the driver has gone to the wrong side of the road. Last year, two cyclists who were killed were killed a) by
a drunk driver (paralytically drunk) who subsequently crashed his car; and b) by a driver on her mobile
phone. These are 2 cases I can quote you off the top of my head. There are many others - for example,
the cyclist killed in Cottesloe by boy racers.
Before making sweeping, unsubstantiated claims, review actual cases. You'll find those killed were doing
the right thing, while the drivers were not.
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Kevin
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1 day ago
@Rob @Phil @Kevin You are right, a cyclist can kill a pedestrian, just as a pedestrian can "kill" a cyclist..
Victoria is the only state with 150 years of good statistics on this issue.
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In 2012 they reached 200 deaths in accidental cyclist/pedestrian incidents 198 dead cyclists and 2
pedestrians. True!
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Ricky
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2 days ago
@Phil @Rob "...not sure what taxes cyclists pay?"
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Seriously? Are we from another planet? I think you're confusing us with illegal immigrants, cash
contractors and low income earners. I pay just as much tax as any other law abiding citizen. In fact my
Notice of Assessment from last year says that of the income tax I paid, 2.3% went on transport.
Admittedly that doesn't sound like much but considering 36.8% went on welfare (that I don't benefit from)
and another 3.7% went on interest on government debt (due to the government's own incompetence), I'd
say that's quite high for someone who doesn't chew through the roads in his killing machine.
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Phil
Reply
1 day ago
@Ricky @Phil @Rob The taxes you talking about a taxes that everyone pays, irrespective of what they
do. My question was what taxes do cyclists pay? But I'll rephrase for the pedantic among us. What
forms of tax and/or fees does a cyclist and only a cyclist pay that contributes to the society as a whole in
the same way as only road users pay licencing and registration fees or gun owners pay licences
registration fees?
Like
Rob
Reply
1 day ago
@Phil @Ricky @Rob you've answered your own question, whilst ignoring the answers provided
previously - a road users licence and rego fees are not taxes and do not contribute to the benefit of
society as a whole by means of revenue. So it is irrelevant that cyclists don't pay rego and licence fees as
there is no loss to the tax system as a result.
Taxes are paid, generally, by everyone, except point of sale taxes such as GST. I guess you could say
cyclists only pay GST on bikes and cycle equipment and clothing?
As long as you continue to confuse rego and licence fees with taxes you will continue to misunderstand
the issue.
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Phil
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1 day ago
@Rob @Phil @Ricky I don't misunderstand the issue, you are trying to ride around it. As a cyclist you
pay nothing at all for the right to have infrastructure and regulation built to suit your purposes whilst in
control of a vehicle. That's right it is still a vehicle, and as such you can still be booked for drink driving on
a push bike, you can still technically be booked for dangerous driving on a bike (but I think you'd have to
actually try to do that). You can argue whether it should be a tax or a fee or a charge or a whatever, but
truth is that you still pay no government body any form of revenue. Also I didn't answer my own question,
I left enough vagueness in the wording to allow for what ever you want to call it.
Like
Kim
Reply
1 day ago
@Phil @Rob @Ricky Do you intentionally obfuscate issues or are you just unable to comprehend? Our
roads are paid for out of state and federal taxes. It's not hard to understand. If you work and pay taxes,
your taxes are going, in part, to pay for the infrastructure. Vehicle registration pays for administration and
third-party insurance.
Moreover, the vast majority of cyclists own cars for which they pay registration. The fact that they
commute by bike actually reduces traffic congestion. You just need to look at the congestion on the
freeway on a wet day compared to a sunny day to realise how fantastic it is when people are out cycling
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because the roads are less crowded.
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This comment has been deleted
Rob
1 day ago
You still don't get it. Rego you pay covers the costs. No rego, not cost administrate it. Your hypothetical
example is ridiculous and does not support you idea at all. Not all vehicles require rego, only motor
vehicles, it's not difficult to comprehend. None of your rego funds find heir way to the roads budget so
even if cyclists did pay rego, they still wouldn't be paying for the roads.
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You find it funny that cyclists are killed? Sounds sociopathic.
Cyclists don't cause congestion on roads, traffic does. Cyclists are happy to use paths and happy to share
them.same with the roads. I did both this morning, didn't hold up any cars, didn't hit any pedestrians, didn't
swear at anyone or wish them dead.
Like
Ricky
Reply
23 hours ago
@Phil "Roads are for all to use and 100% of all accrued funds from registration and licencing covers goes
to their admin etc. Hypothetically, tomorrow all drivers decide to stop driving, hand in their plates and ride
from now on, everyone irrespective of the distance. So now there is no more money coming in to cover
3rd party, maintenance costs not to mention all the wasted room."
Why would you need revenue to cover rego (no cars), admin (no scheme) and 3rd party (no vehicle
accidents) if there were no cars? The admin you refer to above is not admin of keeping roads in line; it is
for keeping track of your car. I have 3rd party insurance on my bike(s). It is a cost I pay that you do not.
Should I be arguing that you pay 3rd party for cyclists in the unfortunate event that you hit one, laugh your
a*s off then get hit with all the medical bills?
It's hard to believe there are imbeciles on earth with your attitude that think you own the road because you
drive a car. The road is not yours.
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Rob
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23 hours ago
Phil, just to further starve oxygen from your hypothetical argument, if there are no cars using the road,
paying no rego, the available revenue from general taxes, gst and rates would be the same, but the
required budget would be near zero, no new roads would be needed and the maintenance requirement
would drop off almost completely. You still, wrongly, claim that rego funds maintenance of the roads. It
doesn't.
Like
Rob
A
Reply
1 day ago
Phil, as a driver, you also do not pay anything for the right to have infrastructure and regulation built to suit
your purpose. There is no revenue in rego, it pays for the scheme, the admin, the paperwork, the
database, the staff and the insurance. It is completely independent from the rights to use the roads and
completely independent from paying for the roads.
I know my bike is classified as a vehicle and I understand the responsibility that places on me when using
the roads and that I can be stopped and fined. I have never disputed it and I am comfortable with it.
You completely misunderstand what rego is and what it is used for. You also misunderstand that it gives a
greater right to the use of the road than any other vehicle recognised in the traffic act. You keep claiming
you pay revenue to the government for tw right to use the road. You don't. Roads are a public good and
free at the point of use.
2
Georgina
Like
Reply
1 day ago
@Rob @Phil I pay taxes and I don't drive a car at all. So I'd like my share of the taxes that go towards
making roads for cars, their danger and wear and tear back please, and I'll happily pay a much smaller
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amount proportionate to what my cycling costs the country. See how silly that sounds?
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