The Institute of Fundraising
Payroll Giving Special Interest Group
Minutes of a Meeting held on
6 November 2014
British Heart Foundation, Greater London House,
180 Hampstead Road, London NW1 7AW
Page 1 of 7
1. Welcome and Introduction by the Deputy Chair – Stephen Noble, Barnardos
Stephen introduced himself and welcomed everyone to the meeting.
He asked for a show of hands of people who were new to payroll giving (PG) and around 50% of people attending
raised their hands. He then explained that as this area of fundraising abounds with acronyms, he would reward with
sweets anyone asking for an explanation of an acronym. Stephen then spoke about the upcoming Payroll Giving
Excellence Awards and finished by asking for support at the AGM later in the day to recognise those resigning from
the committee for their hard work.
2. Corporate Case Study – Checkatrade.com. Winner of ‘The Best SME Campaign’ at the National Payroll Giving
Excellence Awards 2013. Claire Hossell, Head of Finance.
Checkatrade is based in Selsey and in 1998 a tornado hit the town leaving its residents in need of substantial house
repairs. The incoming repairers were not always of a good standard and sometimes the traders disappeared with the
money without carrying out the repairs. Current owner of Checkatrade, Kevin Byrne, felt that a register of traders
was needed and Checkatrade was born. They have 16,000 members listed and community is close to their heart.
Following a charity visit to Nepal by Mr Byrne, and the showing of a video, staff wanted to donate monthly to that
charity and initially, monies were collected in cash and passed on to the charity. They discovered PG and although
the take up was not good at the beginning, an innovative and humorous promotion themed around cheese
increased take up dramatically and exceeded their sign up target of 25%. This year’s promotion will be built around a
sports day theme.
See presentation for further information: http://www.institute-of-fundraising.org.uk/library/pg-sig-checkatrade/
Q and A
Q. How many charities benefitted?
A. 16 to 17 of all types from Cancer Research UK to a local church.
Q. Did your staff choose to give to the Nepal charity?
A. Yes some also dress down Friday.
Q. Do you provide matched funds?
A. Not on PG donations but we do pay the admin; yes on specific charity events.
Q. Is it hard to change charities?
A. No there is an online link, employee can change amount etc.
Q. Did you publicise your success to your suppliers?
A. Yes and a print company are now interested in PG.
The Institute of Fundraising
Payroll Giving Special Interest Group
Minutes of a Meeting held on
6 November 2014
British Heart Foundation, Greater London House,
180 Hampstead Road, London NW1 7AW
Page 2 of 7
3. Institute of Fundraising Update. The progress of the Payroll Giving Recommendations with particular
emphasis on the Memorandum of Understanding and the website - Daniel Fluskey, the Institute of
Fundraising.
Daniel thanked the attendees for coming and acknowledged the work of the committee and stated that the IOF
wouldn’t work without volunteers.
The IOF have been working with the Her Majesty’s Treasury who look after tax policy around improvements to PG.
The HMRC are responsible for collecting tax. There will be no Treasury person attending today as there is a new
Minister and the timetable has been put back around 6 weeks.
So changes are not happening right now but are imminent. The following are not definitive but are agreed in general
terms:
The agreement between Payroll Giving Agencies (PGA) and charities will be a Memorandum of Understanding
(MOU) and not a Service Level Agreement (SLA) as it is not mean to be legally binding, more a building of a
partnership or relationship. It is assumed that charities will not be asked to sign the MOU but PGA’s will. The autumn
statement put out by the Treasury may mention the MOU and it will be in place hopefully by the end of the year.
Jane Banks mentioned the proposal for PGA’s to also publish uniform reporting annually as at present sometimes
they do not show, for example, the admin fee, address or name of PFO. Also that there is some ambiguity over
spontaneous donors.
See presentation:
Q and A
Q. Will the new style report show gross donation? It is easier to write to the donor if you know the gross donation.
A. Probably yes as this has been broadly agreed.
Q. Will CAF etc. be updated re the next steps?
A. the Minister needs to sign off then PGA’s will be contacted.
Q. Will reports capture tax rates?
A. No as the PGA’s are not aware of tax rates. Also donors might not be comfortable with that and it can change
during the lifetime of a donation.
Q. Is spontaneous donor info available?
A. No one would know. Theoretically PGA’s would know as they have forms but does not form part of the current
agreement. The wish list is extensive but not reasonable or practical to include all requests. Maybe in time PGA’s
might be able to show this.
Also most payroll listings are electronic and PGA’s are not interested in whether donation is a one off or a regular
gift. It is unrealistic to ask PGA’s to provide data that they do not have.
The Institute of Fundraising
Payroll Giving Special Interest Group
Minutes of a Meeting held on
6 November 2014
British Heart Foundation, Greater London House,
180 Hampstead Road, London NW1 7AW
Page 3 of 7
Q. How many PGA’s are there and do they operate in the same way?
A. 17 are on the government website but there may be a few more. In reality only 4 operate with (potentially all)
charities
Q. Why is there not one place to download information?
A. It was part of the consultation but no one has the funding to set this up.
Q. Can you clarity the situation regarding the Payroll Giving Centre?
A. It is a site funded by the Office for Civil Society with information about payroll giving and the awards.
Q. What is next?
A. Getting more employers involved and more employers re-engaged. WE need good ideas to come from the SIG as
to how to do that as the government is very limited.
Q. Will the whole Payroll Giving Centre go?
A. Some bits will go and some will be retained. Some will go possibly to the IOF website and some to the .gov.uk
website. The transition may start to happen in the next month.
4. Charity Accounts – How do they fit into the Payroll Giving options for individuals and companies? - Heather
Vasco, Charities Trust.
Most PGA’s have giving accounts and this session is designed to be generic about these accounts.
See presentation: http://www.institute-of-fundraising.org.uk/library/pg-sig-charities-trust/
Q and A
Q. Is there a minimum of £10 per month?
A. Depends on the PGA, if it’s one donation per year that is acceptable.
Q. What is the charge?
A. It varies from 25p but not very much.
Q. Are voucher donations shown on statements?
A. With CT yes – identified separately with voucher number or online transaction number. Charity should have
already received the voucher from donor so should be looking out for the number.
Q. Do corporate account monies show on the statement?
A. Yes
The Institute of Fundraising
Payroll Giving Special Interest Group
Minutes of a Meeting held on
6 November 2014
British Heart Foundation, Greater London House,
180 Hampstead Road, London NW1 7AW
Page 4 of 7
Q. The Barnardos staff account does not show on the statement?
A. We only show the amount on the statement not the individual donors.
Q. Can vouchers be redeemed after the death of the donor? What happens to the money in the account?
A. It is ultimately the PGA’s decision but may depend on the donation history.
Q. Are accounts time bound? Are reminders sent?
A. Yes accounts are time bound. No reminders because agencies not regulated about how often
Q. A colleague is doing an event for charity; can I sponsor him from a voucher account?
A. Not through Just Giving, Virgin Money Giving or BT MyDonate but you can write a charity cheque directly to the
charity. Cheques have been known to go around the houses at charities so needs careful monitoring.
Q. How does a charity know if a charity voucher has been given in response to an appeal?
A. Some agencies can distinguish such vouchers but not all.
Q. Do CAF show voucher payments on statements?
A. Yes but on a separate statement. CT show on standard PG disbursement statement.
Q. Can you recap how charities receive the money?
For a one-off gift, the donor sends the charity a voucher which the charity returns to the agency to cash in, like
cashing a cheque at the bank. If the donor makes regular payroll gifts from a voucher account, there won’t be
vouchers issued to the charity for each instalment.
Q. Can donors pay into voucher accounts other than by PG?
A. Yes – could use DD or SO, for example. CAF vouchers state ‘GAYE’ where relevant but CT doesn’t make this
distinction on its vouchers.
Q. Do non-PG funded voucher gifts appear on agency disbursement statements?
A. Yes for CT, it seems. Probably not for CAF!
5. The Payroll Giving Chat Show –
Heather Vasco and Tina Steele
Hosted by Stephen Noble, Barnardos. Our panel is: Jack Davies Knapp;
Q. What is the difference between the three main PGA’s?
A. In reality they do the same basic job as they are regulated by the government but some offer different packages
to employers and their fees are slightly different. Some charge a percentage based fee whilst some use a fixed
charge. CT are disappointed with the IOF statement that nothing has happened since April as there was a change in
the regulations in April changing the rules concerning timing of disbursements from 60 days to 35.
The Institute of Fundraising
Payroll Giving Special Interest Group
Minutes of a Meeting held on
6 November 2014
British Heart Foundation, Greater London House,
180 Hampstead Road, London NW1 7AW
Page 5 of 7
CT needed to change their systems and now disburse payments twice a month instead of once. The government
implemented these changes because they could do so without providing funding.
Q. Can companies sign up with more than one agency?
A. Technically yes, there’s nothing to stop them. In practice, happens very rarely and usually only following a merger.
Although sometimes a donor giving to a church ill insist that the donation is processed by a small religion based PGA.
Q. Who does Macmillan recommend as a PGA?
A. We usually direct then to the HMRC website and let them choose. Giveall do not charge the donor or employer
for processing PG income but the employer has to do all of the work and the registration process can be time
consuming.
Q. But what if you are asked to recommend a PGA?
A. We suggest that they talk to them all and make a decision based on their responses.
Q. Why does the income to charities go up and down?
A. Sometimes one off donations skews the figures. Sometimes the employer does not send the funds to the PGA.
Some donors are weekly payers paid on a 4/4/5 basis but the total pay-out doesn’t vary, just when it is paid.
Corporate matched giving is added once a year. Employers need to send money regularly and also the breakdowns
of money sent.
Q. Do PGA’s have to explain delays?
A. Yes – although they haven’t been asked to by HMRC yet, it seems.
Q. Do PGA’s chase employers every 3 months?
A. Some PGA’s but it is in the hands of the employer.
Q. How do PGMS fit in?
A. Charities send all the info to PGMS (or Bell Donor Management). They then put all the information into a
consistent format and compile various reports, e.g. on donors who have stopped giving. Different charities do
different things with this info. PGMS and BDM are very astute, PGA’s evolve differently and charities do not always
invest in the software needed to reconcile donor monies. PGMS and BDM collate all the information and send
reports such as lapsed donors.
Q, If a donor appears to have lapsed what can I do?
A. If you have the contact info, ask if they are still donating. Then go to the PGA or the payroll department. There
could be many reasons.
The Institute of Fundraising
Payroll Giving Special Interest Group
Minutes of a Meeting held on
6 November 2014
British Heart Foundation, Greater London House,
180 Hampstead Road, London NW1 7AW
Page 6 of 7
Q. Is it OK to go to the PGA first?
A. It could be an anonymous donor or the funds could be held up at between the employer payroll department and
the PGA.
Q. If donors sign up to PG are donors’ details ours?
A. Yes, if through a PFO. The charity forum is trying to get a standardisation of the Data Protection statement. 25% of
donors are spontaneous, which is a lot trickier and you need to send a letter asking if contact is agreed. No mail can
be sent until an answer is received.
Q. Do donors have a right to be anonymous?
A. Not if they are recruited by a PFO unless they are Ministry of Defence donors. There has been a historical
misunderstanding between donors who wish to remain anonymous and those who do wish to be contacted by the
charity, but that does not happen so much these days. Often donors were worried about too much contact so ticked
the no contact box. But why is PG any different in that respect to other forms of giving? Presumably because PG
donors have been offered more choice…
PG donors are not easy to cross sell to so some charities are less likely to contact them for this reason.
Q. Do you have any tips for upgrading?
A. Do not consider it if your database is not good or up to date. You need the NI number or employee number. Also
some employers are resistant as they think that charities should not contact their employees at home.
Q. is there any way of stopping employers hanging on to monies?
A. Employers must pay within 14 days of making the deduction but the HMRC are reluctant and under resourced to
chase employers who do not comply. Also not many employers hold on to the monies. It’s often the paperwork that
is the problem as they do not always identify the BACS payments to the PGA’s.
6. Payroll Giving – the front line. - Mark Wilkins, Proprietor, Equity Consulting.
Mark explained that he had been a professional fundraiser for ten years and currently works three days a week
for County Air Ambulance Trust.
See presentation: http://www.institute-of-fundraising.org.uk/library/pg-sig-mark-wilkins/
Q and A
Q. How much of CAAT’s income is from PG?
A. circa 15%
The Institute of Fundraising
Payroll Giving Special Interest Group
Minutes of a Meeting held on
6 November 2014
British Heart Foundation, Greater London House,
180 Hampstead Road, London NW1 7AW
Page 7 of 7
7. Recap and close meeting - Jane Banks
Jane Banks stated that it had been a good day covering a number of topics and would love to see everyone at the
next SIG meeting. She also asked the attendees to approach the committee if they had any further questions. She
highlighted the IOF website, particularly the section for PG found by clicking on the Groups heading and then
scrolling down to the SIG groups and locating PG. She mentioned the buddy system where a person new to PG could
seek advice from an experienced PG professional.
She finished by saying that all of the presentations from today could be found on the IOF website.