Reel to Real
Wisconsin Vietnam War Stories
Discussion Guide
Segment Guide
Part 2 of 3
Wisconsin Vietnam War Stories is a partnership of the Wisconsin Department of Veterans Affairs, Wisconsin Historical Society and Wisconsin Public Television.
REEL to REAL: WISCONSIN VIETNAM WAR STORIES OUTREACH DVD:
The Vietnam Veterans You Meet in the DVD:
John Dederich, De Pere
Kerry Denson, Lake Mills
Richard Erck, Greenville
Dan Hinkle, Black River Falls
Bruce Jensen, West Allis
Wayne Jensen, Milwaukee
Jim Kurtz, Middleton
William Moore, St. Francis
Lowell Peterson, Appleton
William Rettenmund, Verona
Roy Rogers, Menasha
Daniel Schaller, La Crosse
Gary Wetzel, South Milwaukee
Alvin Whitaker, Waterloo
Will Williams, De Forest
DISCUSSION QUESTIONS:
SAMPLE DISCUSSION QUESTIONS:
 Did you recognize yourself in any of the stories in the film?
 Did the experiences of the people in this film remind you of the experiences of
people in your local community? Why or why not? If so, in what ways did they
resemble life here?
 What surprised you most about this film?
 What lessons should people take away from this film? Are there ideas in this film
about how we might improve the lives of people in our community?
DISCUSSION QUESTIONS FOR INDIVIDUAL SEGMENTS:
NAVAL PRESENCE: 1964
The U.S. Navy was charged with providing combat power ashore in Southeast Asia,
controlling the coastal waters off Vietnam, and providing logistic support. Naval
operations took place in the South China Sea, among myriad islands, along the
coastline of Vietnam, and on thousands of nautical miles of rivers and canals.
The first significant U.S. naval engagement of the war was the famous Tonkin Gulf
incident of 1964. Throughout the war, carrier aircraft of the Seventh Fleet executed
round‐the‐clock bombing of enemy logistics facilities, fuel and supply depots, power
plants, bridges, and railroads in Laos, North Vietnam, and after 1970, Cambodia,
resulting in the loss of 900 aircraft and 881 pilots and other air crew killed or captured.
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(Source: Wars and Conflicts of the United States Navy: Overviews of Naval History,
found at http://www.history.navy.mil/Wars/index.html#anchor13254)
The Perch: Originally commissioned in 1944, The Perch (SS-313), a Balao class
submarine, served in WWII and the Korean War prior to being decommissioned in 1960.
On November 11, 1961, The Perch was recommissioned with a crew of 80 and arrived
in Subic Bay, Philippine Islands in March 1963. Her primary assignment was training
U.S. Marines, Army Special Forces, and Navy underwater demolition teams in
reconnaissance. Perch lead search and rescue operations in Vietnam and participated
in amphibious landings (Source: Dictionary of American Naval Fighting Ships by James
L. Mooney, published by the Navy Department).
The Maddox: USS Maddox (DD-731), an Allen M. Sumner-class destroyer was named
for Captain William A. T. Maddox, USMC, launching 19 March 1944. The Maddox was
assigned to patrol off the coast of South Vietnam with over 335 crew members.
On 2 August, 1964, Maddox, cruising in international waters 28 miles off the coast of
North Vietnam in an area known as the Tonkin Gulf, was engaged by three North
Vietnamese patrol boats. Two days later, in extremely rough water and weather, radar,
sonar, and radio signals signaled another apparent attack by the North Vietnamese
navy. The Maddox and the C. Turner Joy engaged an unseen enemy for two hours,
firing only on probable radar targets. These combined events became known as The
Gulf of Tonkin Incident, eventually resulting in the passage by Congress of the Gulf of
Tonkin Resolution, which granted President Lyndon B. Johnson the authority to assist
any Southeast Asian country whose government was considered to be jeopardized by
"communist aggression". The resolution served as Johnson's legal justification for
escalating American involvement in the Vietnam War.
In 2005, an internal National Security Agency historical study was declassified; it
concluded that USS Maddox had engaged the North Vietnamese on August 2, but that
there may not have been any North Vietnamese vessels present during the
engagement of August 4. (Sources: Dictionary of American Naval Fighting Ships by
James L. Mooney, published by the Navy Department Action in Tonkin Gulf; Time
Magazine 14 Aug. 1964. Time Magazine Online. Web. 28 Oct. 2009; Moise, Edwin E.
Tonkin Gulf and the escalation of the Vietnam War. Chapel Hill: University of North
Carolina, 1996)
Special Forces: The Navy SEALs (“sea, air and land”) started out in 1962 as an Elite
Special Force of the US Navy. Navy SEALs operated in Vietnam, Laos and covertly in
Cambodia under the auspices of the Studies and Observation Group. The first SEAL
was killed in Vietnam in 1965- in total, 45 SEALs died by 1972. SEALs were
operationally deployed to Rung Sat Special Zone and tasked with supply and troop
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movement disruption and carrying out river operations on the Mekong Delta (Resource:
Navy SEALs Information & Resources).
William Moore
St. Francis
USS Perch (Dolphin Wings)
Wayne Jensen
Milwaukee
Navy, Coastal Division 12
Radarman and Gunnersmate
November 1963 – October 1966 and November 1967 – October 1969
Daniel Schaller
La Crosse
Fleet Air Recon 1
Bruce Jensen
Milwaukee
Navy, River Assault Division 111
Gunnersmate, Medical Aid Boat Crewman
November 1965 – November 1969
1.
How do you think the experience of Navy veterans differs from those who served
in marine or army combat units?
2.
Do you remember when the Gulf of Tonkin incident occurred? Did you or your
parents realize that this would precipitate the longest war our country has ever fought?
3.
What struck you most about the seaman‟s description of the Gulf of Tonkin? Do
you feel he completely understood what had happened?
4.
The separation of families during wartime has happened since the birth of our
nation, but in Vietnam, it was much rarer than it was in World War II, a war that occurred
only 20 years earlier. Think about the experience of Bruce and Wayne Jensen – what
do you think it was like knowing the other was in danger overseas? Do you think their
knowledge of the war made it easier or harder to deal with?
DROPPING BOMBS: 1966
Operation Rolling Thunder was a sustained U.S. 2nd Air Division (later Seventh Air
Force), U.S. Navy, and Republic of Vietnam Air Force (VNAF) aerial bombardment
campaign conducted against the Democratic Republic of Vietnam (North Vietnam) from
March 2,1965 until November 1, 1968. It is estimated that the bombing damage
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inflicted on North Vietnam totaled $370 million in physical destruction, with
approximately 1,000 casualties per week. (Source: Clodfelter, Mark, The Limits of
Airpower: The American Bombing of Vietnam. New York: Free Press).
Lowell Peterson M.D.
Appleton
Air Force, 18th Tactical Fighter Wing, 12th Tactical Fighter Squadron
Flight surgeon
1965-1966
Alvin Whitaker
Waterloo
355th Tactical Fighter Wing
1.
While not actually flying the planes that dropped the bombs, both Lowell Peterson
and Al Whitaker are quite emotional about their relationships with the pilots they
assisted. Discuss what it must have been like to see your friends leave the air base
each day, not knowing if they would come back. How would you handle a situation in
which you were completely helpless?
2.
The air war over Vietnam was always a hot button issue, with both anti-war
activists protesting the bombing as inhumane and pro-war voices advocating for
increased bombing to destroy supply routes and bring the enemy to their knees. Which
do you think was right? How is an air war different from a ground war?
3.
Despite the overwhelming might of our military technology, both the Viet Cong and
the North Vietnamese Army (NVA) were able to wage an effective war using, at times,
outdated military equipment. Why do you think the Communists were able to neutralize
our great technological advantage? What could war planners have done to counteract
their gains?
ELUSIVE ENEMY: 1966
Tunnel Rats: Whenever troops would uncover a tunnel, tunnel rats , usually armed with
a pistol and flashlight, were sent in to kill any hiding enemy soldiers and to plant
explosives to destroy the tunnels. (Source: Rottman, Gordon (2006). Viet Cong and
NVA Tunnels and Field Fortifications of the Vietnam War. Osprey Publishing).
Will Williams
DeForest
Army, 25th Infantry Division and 1st Logistical Command
Squad Leader and Military Policeman
January 1966 – December 1966 and February 1969 – June 1969
James Kurtz
Madison
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Army, 1st Infantry Division
Platoon Leader, Battalion Adjutant, Assistant G-1
June 1966 – June 1967
Daniel Hinkle
Bruce
Army, 4th Infantry Division, Platoon Leader
April 1965 – August 1968
1.
Dan Hinkle talks about being sent into Vietnam as a replacement platoon leader
and being a unit within the 4th Infantry Division. For many, Dan included, going to
Vietnam was a very individual experience, as many soldiers did not go over with a
specific regiment. How would this affect your adjustment to Vietnam and to fighting
alongside complete strangers? What about on the return trip home? Do you think
experience has adversely affected some veterans‟ readjustment to society following the
war?
2.
The tunnels of Cu Chi were famous for flummoxing the U.S. Army throughout the
war. Located outside of Saigon, the tunnels are currently a top tourist attraction for both
civilians and American veterans that have returned to Vietnam, yet for the men who
went inside them, it was clearly not the case. Discuss the „tunnel rat‟ experience and
think about what it would be like to go into an enclosed space with a .45 and flashlight
and not knowing what is around the corner.
3.
How did the stories from Jim Kurtz and the others about having to pay the French
for damaged rubber trees make you feel?
4.
Jim Kurtz and Dan Hinkle were both officers while Will Williams was an enlisted
man. Throughout the war, there was a great divide between officers and enlisted
soldiers or draftees. Why do you think this divide existed and how did it affect our ability
to carry out the war?
SEND IN THE MARINES: 1965
The first U.S. combat troops arrived in Vietnam in March 1965 as 3500 Marines landed
at China Beach to defend the American air base at Da Nang. They joined 23,000
American military advisors already in Vietnam. On August 18, 1965, U.S. Marines
began the first major U.S. ground operation in Vietnam in Operation Starlite, a
preemptive strike against 1500 Viet Cong near the American airfield at Chu Lai. 45
Marines were killed, with 614 Viet Cong killed. A second significant Marine engagement
occurred in January 1968 when 20,000 NVA troops attacked the American air base at
Khe Sanh. 5000 U.S. Marines were surrounded during a 77 day siege (Sources: This
Day in History)
In total, 13,000 U.S. Marines were killed in action during the 9+ years of the Vietnam
War. Another 51,000 were wounded in action (Sources: Casualties: U. S. Navy and
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Marine Corps Personnel Killed and Wounded in Wars, Conflicts, Terrorist Acts, and
Other Hostile Incidents, Naval Historical Center).
Roy Rogers
Menasha
3rd Marine Division
John Dederich
De Pere
1st Marine Division
Richard Erck
Greenville
Marines, 3rd Reconnaissance Battalion, Radio Operator
November 1965 – January 1967
1.
One story that stands out in this segment is that of John Dederich, a Marine who
lost both of his legs during a combat patrol. In the clip, we see the Western Union
telegram that was sent home to his parents. What do you think of the language the
Marines used to tell his parents what happened, i.e. “traumatic amputations of both
legs?” Do you feel it was insensitive? Would you rather have outright honesty or
vagueness? What does it also tell you about the nature of the war in 1965?
2.
All the Marines in the clip talk about going out and “engaging the enemy.” How
would you feel if you were sent out on patrol to go “find” the enemy and engage them in
combat? What purpose did this serve and was it effective?
3.
One of the more remarkable things in this segment is Roy Rogers 16mm film
footage. If you saw just his film footage, what would you think about the Vietnam War at
that time, i.e. what kind of war was it? Does it seem a lot of different than the war
presented in other segments?
4.
Force Recon member Rick Erck describes being called an “old man,” yet he was
only 20. The things he saw and did occurred before he wasone quarter of the way
through his life. Think back to when you were 20 years old – what were you doing? How
would you have handled being put in Rick‟s position? Could you have handled it?
AIRMOBILE: THE NEW CALVARY
Airmobile units allowed the air insertion of troops for vertical envelopment ("a tactical
maneuver in which troops, either air-dropped or air-landed, attack the rear and flanks of
a force, in effect cutting off or encircling the force"), air resupply, and, if necessary, air
extraction. There were 2,197 helicopter pilots and 2,717 non-pilot crewmembers killed in
the Vietnam War from all services including Air America. (Source:
http://www.vhpamuseum.org/defaultmenu.shtml).
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Kerry Denson
Lake Mills
Army, 1st Cavalry Division
Helicopter Pilot
April 1967 – April 1968 and June 1970 – Aug 1970
William Rettenmund
Verona
162nd Assault Helicopter
Gary Wetzel
Oak Creek
Army, 11th Combat Aviation Battalion
Door Gunner
October 1966 – January 1968
1.
While some helicopters were in use during the Korean War, the Vietnam War
was the first conflict where the helicopter saw widespread use for everything from
moving troops and evacuating the wounded to delivering mail and hot meals to men in
the field. Why do you think the helicopter was such an effective vehicle during this war?
Would the war have been fought differently had the military been without the helicopter?
2.
Gary Wetzel is one of six Wisconsin Vietnam veterans to have earned the Medal
of Honor for valor and gallantry during the war. Was there anything in particular that
struck you in his re-telling of the events where he lost his arm, saved the lives of his
fellow soldiers and fought hand-to-hand with the enemy? What adjectives would you
use to describe Mr. Wetzel? What is it about combat that makes the ordinary man do
something extraordinary?
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For a Discussion Guide PDF and information about Discussion DVDs visit:
www.wisconsinstories.org/vietnam
Major funding for Wisconsin Vietnam War Stories has been provided by Don and Roxanne Weber,
Associated Bank, Oneida Nation, Ho-Chunk Nation, Kwik Trip, Wisconsin Public Service Foundation
and Ron and Colleen Weyers.
Additional contributors include Lowell Peterson, The Evjue Foundation, The Boldt Company, Credit
Union Executives Society, IKI Manufacturing, Tom Schober, David Walsh and Fred Johnson and the
Wisconsin History Fund supported in part by the National Endowment for the Humanities.
Thanks also for the in-kind contributions of Schneider National and the Kress Inn in De Pere.
Reel-to-Real community screenings and discussions are a collaboration of Wisconsin Public Television
and the Wisconsin Library Association, and are sponsored by the 2009-2010 UW-Extension Program
Innovation Fund and the Alliant Energy Foundation.
Any views, findings, conclusions or recommendations expressed in this program do not necessarily represent those of the National Endowment for the Humanities.
Wisconsin Vietnam War Stories is a partnership of
the Wisconsin Department of Veterans Affairs, the Wisconsin Historical Society and Wisconsin Public Television.