Queensland
Parliamentary Debates
[Hansard]
Legislative Council
THURSDAY, 7 OCTOBER 1880
Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy
102
Railway and Trmntvay
[COUNCIL.]
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.
Thursday, 7 October, 1880.
Railway and Tramway Extensions Bill-committee.Fassifern Railway.-Endowments to Municipalitjes
and Divisions Bill-third reading.-LicensingBoards
Act Amendment Bill-third reading.-Gold Mining
Appeals Bill-committee.-Adjournment.
The PRESIDING CHAIRMAN took the
chair at 4 o'clock.
RAILWAY AND TRAMWAY EXTENSIONS BILL-COMMITTEE.
The House went into Committee to further
consider this Bill.
On the motion of the POSTMASTERGENERAL, the words "mayor or," in the
fifty-fourth line of clause 7, were omitted.
Question-That the clause as amended stand
part of the Bill-put and passed.
Extensions Bill.
Rail1cay and Tram1vcty
[7
0CT011ER.}
or trn,m,my wn,s formed. If the road wn,s not
formed, no expense would attach to the commissioner; but where the divisional bon,rd had been
to the expense of forming n,nd metn,lling the road,
why should they not have the same right as n,
city or town to hn,ve it kept in order?
The HoN. F. J. IVORY said that if the
words objected to were omitted, and the Government were compelled to keep the line in such
absolute repair as the hem. mover of the amendment seemed to expect, they might as well say
farewell to cheap railways. It was not to be
presumed that in the country districts, except
in populou!l parts of the colony, there would be
such traffic across or on a railway as in a city
or town. If they admitted the proposition of
the Postmaster-Geneml to alter the position of
the words "line of pavements," the provision
would be perfectly comprehensible and fair.
\Vhat was the use of maintaining the line
between the rails in country districts similar to
the pavements of a street? It seemed an absurdity, and would do away with a great deal
of the benefit proposed to be obtained by the
Bill.
The HoN. \V. H. W ALSH said it was not
contended that country roads should he kept in
the order of pavements. The clause simply provided that the roads should he kept or put back
in the same state of repair as the Government
found them. Could anything be fairer, and
could anything be more unjust than to call upon
Government to do cm·t'1in things to the streets in
towns and relieve them from the necessity of
doing it in the country districts ? He was
astonished that the Hon. Mr. I vary, even in his
extreme ardour tu serve the Postmaster-General
and the Government, could not see the injustice.
'rhe hon. gentleman said that if the roads were
omitted they might bid farewell to cheap railways. Before they could do so they must have
the railways, and he was afraid they had not got
the Government to give them. It would he
something like fairplay if the hon. member disassociated himself from the idea that he must
say whatever the Government said and do whatever they did.
The HoN. F. J. IVORY said that if the hon.
Mr. \V alsh could disassociate himself from the
habit he had of always attacking whatever
emanated from the Government, po~sibly he
might expect him (Mr. Ivory) to follow the
advice he had just given; hut so long as the hon.
gentleman systematically opposed the Governmentin away which savoured very much of partisanship, he might, although he did not say that he
would, take a different course. His opinions differed from the hon. gentleman's, and the hon. gentleman's opinions differed from his. It appeared
to him, however, that they were legislating for
the country-he was endeavouring todoso as much
as the hon. gentleman. He objected to thehon.
gentleman continually making- these personal remarks as to his course of action, and he threw them
hack with the scorn they deserved. Hewa5 as independent as the hon. gentleman. He was no
vartisan in the way the hon. gentleman made
out, neither was he in the House as the representative of the Government, but he held definite
opinions, and he gave the hon. gentleman credit
for holding the same; and he refused to have the
accusation made everlastingly that he was in the
House as the partisan or second of the PostmasterGeneral. The proposal that had been made by
the Hon. Mr. Cowlishaw would compel the
Government to keep the roads in repair outside
of towm. He mamtained that a line of pavements was not nec~,'lsary in the country, but
was so in the towns where there was constant
traffic. No don bt where there was constant
traffic in such places as the Hon. Mr. \V alsh had
Extensions Bill.
103
named it was quite possible that the Government, for the sake of maintaining the tramway,
which they were hound to keep in good order
and repair, would do what they could to keep
the roads in good order. He did not see any
justification for the gross attack which had just
been made upon him because he advocated a
certain course.
The HoN. W. H. W ALSH said he was extremely sorry that the Hon. Mr. Ivory should
prove himself so irritable, that afternoon. When,
however, he saw such a demonstration in favour
of the Government as he had witnessed the hon.
gentleman make that afternoon, he should repeat
what he had said. While the PostmasterGeneral was addressing the Committee he
became almost inaudible owing to the Hon. Mr.
Ivory mumbling and repeating something to
him by his side.
The HoN. F. J. IVORY said the accusation
was without foundation. He was not mumbling
or repeating anything to the PostmasterGeneral. ,
The HoN. W. H. WALSH said he would
assert distinctly that he heard the hon. gentleman repeat something as if he wished to catch
the ear of the Postmaster-General with the object of instructing him. He heard him, and it
was offensive to him. He thought the Postmaster-General might be allowed to make his
statement without a prompter. It was because
of the Hon. Mr. I vary's action that he became
irritated, and felt that it waB not even doing
justice to the Postmaster-General. \Vhether the
hon. gentleman was conscious of it or not he
did not know, hut that it occurred and that
he heard it was as true as that he was now in
the Chamber.
The HoN. L. HOPE said he did not hear or
observe anything of the sort.
The HoN. W. H. W ALSH : I did not say
that you did.
The HoN. W. GRAHAM said the Hon. Mr·
Ivory had denied the accusation, yet the Hon.
Mr. W alsh had repeated it. He had certainly
no right to do that.
The HoN. W. H. \V ALSH said, so far he
was wrong, and he apologised; but he would
point out that he qualified his statement by
saying that probably the Hon. Mr. Ivory's
ardour made him unconscious of what he did.
Perhaps hon. members who sat behind him
could not hear him so well as those who sat in
front. He was sorry to have raised the ire of
the hon. gentleman, for they were old personal
friends. It would, however, be better if he did
not appear so much at the right hand of the
Postmaster-General. He understood the Hon.
Mr. Ivory to say that in thE) event of the tramways being taken to such places as Indooroopilly
or Toowong the Government would take good
care, in their own interests, that the roads along
the tramway were kept in good order. He did
not assert that that would not be the case wherever the tramways were taken to towns or cities.
But the clause in its present form made an invidious distinction, to say the least of it, between
the towns and country districts ; and he would
assist the Hon. Mr. Cowlishaw to place the districts on an equal footing with the towns.
The HoN. F. J. IVORY said that granting,
for the sake a£ argument, that the PostmasterGeneral, when overheard by the Hon. Mr.
\Valsh, was addressing remarks to him, it was
not the place of any hon. member to object to
such a proceeding. They were met there to
deliberate, and to arrive at the hest view possible.
It was frequently neceSI!ary that they should consult one with another and make suggestions.
104
Railtvay anrl Tramway
[COUNCIL.]
They were not there as the Hon. Mr. \Valsh
appeared to be, as partisans to obstruct and give
rise to points of order upon every possible oc·
casion. They were there to legislate for the
benefit of the country, and it was only natural
that they should consult with and make suggestions to other hon. members in any matter which
would further good legislation. If he should at
any time make any remarks to his neighbour-;and by the way, the Hon. Mr: \V alsh often dtd
so himself, although he objected to others doing
so-he (Mr. Ivory) claimed perfect liberty to do
so ; and it was in very bad taste to take notice
of any communication which might take place
between any two gentlemen occupying seats in
that or, indeed, in any other part of the
Chamber.
The POSTMASTER-GE~ERAL hoped the
House would bear with him while he made one
or two remarks. It was remarkable that since
the Hon. Mr. Walsh had been in that Chamber
he had endeavoured his utmost to disassociate
him from hon. members on that side of the
House. Immediately an hon. member came to
consult with him the Hon. Mr. W alsh rose and
called attention to it, using the epithets of
''henchman," "adjutant," or something of that
sort. From some cause or other the Hon. l\fr.
Walsh succeeded in almost emptying the front
benches. The Hon. Mr. Ivory, however, who
had had some experience in the Lower House,
was not so easily driven away, and he stuck to
his post in spite of the offensive remarks addressed to him by the Hon. Mr. Walsh. It was
necessary that those hon. members who supported
the Government should occasionally consult with
him. Of course he liked to know what their
opinions were upon any point which might suddenly arise, and the same thing mi<:ht be
said of the Hon. Mr. W alsh when leading
the Opposition. The hon. member, of course,
liked to consult with 'his followers. Very fre·
quently, during this session, he had felt quite embarrassed, when he wished to speak to some hon.
member supporting the Government, by the Hon.
Mr. Walsh invariably calling attention to that
circumstance. But he had the same privilege as
the hon. member, and would consult with and ascertain the feelings of hon. members supporting
the Government. He hoped that the hon. member (Mr. Walsh) would in future refrain from his
offensive imputations. He had not called attention to them before, because he felt that he could
not do so with propriety; but, after what had
occurred this afternoon, he felt bound to remind
the hon. member that it was upon the recommendation of the present Government that
he held his seat in that Chamber, and a].
though the Government did not recommend
him for an appointment with a view to his
becoming a partisan, they did not, on the
other hand, imagine that he would come there
for the express purpose of obstructing the Government business by every means in his power.
He hoped hon. members would excuse him
speaking warmly upon that subject. He had sat
still under this treatment for the last eighteen
months-ever since the Hon. Mr. \V alsh had
been in the House-and he now appealed to that
hon. gentleman's sense of honour as to whether
he should not allow him to conduct Government
business here as it was conducted in other legislatures. The hon. member could consolidate a
party on his side of the House without such
persistent obstruction.
He did not mean
to say that he objected to the criticism
with which the hon. gentleman occasionally
favoured them. It was very desirable in the
interests of good legislation that the measmes of the Government should be criticised.
He would be sorry to see the House accept any
measure the Government cho~e to bring irt--p,nd
Extensions Bill.
he must admit that, with all his obstruction and
delay8, the Hon. Mr. \Valsh often did valuable
service by his criticism. There was a point,
however, beyond which one could not tolerate
that sort of thing, and he thought Mr. W alsh
frequently went beyond that point. With regard to the amendment, it was unfair both to the
Go'vernment and the taxpayers to require them
to repair and maintain in first-class order any
road in the country district wl.ich might be
traversed by a railway. In the first place, it
would have to be assumed that the Government would find the road in good order, and
that would very frequently not hi the case.
The suggested expenditure was unnecessary,
and would seriously interfere with the construction of cheap railways. He claimed for the present
Government that they had constructed railways
cheaper than any Government which had preceded them. That could be proved by figures.
In the central and northern directions lines had
been constructed at a cheaper rate per mile than
any railways which had been previously constructed in the colony. Whether that arose
from the circumstance of their having their staff
of workmen and all the plant in a more cmnplete state he was not prepared to say. Perhaps that had a great deal to do with it; hut,
independently of that, the Government ha<l
shown earnestness in the matter, and a determination to reduce the cost of railway construction to a degree which had not been exceeded
by any preceding Government.
The HoN. W. GRAHAM thought the case
would be met by the second part of the clau"e
which provided that the character of the main·
tenance should be in keeping with the reserve
or road on which the railway or tramway h:ul
been formed.
The HoN. \V. PETTIG REW said he cordially
approved of the Bill for many reasons. He had
always been in favour of cheap railways. He
would do what he could to make the measure
efficient, and so amend it that railways could be
constructed at nos cheap a rate as possible. \Vhen
he spoke previously upon this subject he was told
cheap railways meant nasty railways, but he believed that railways could be made cheaply and
yet be good. In the previous part of the Bill he
had voted against what was considered to be an
injustice to individua]g, and following out the
same principle he was now prepared to vote
against what he maintained would be an injustice
to communities. He thought that if the words
"if within a city or town " were omitted, the
clause would still be a very good one, and wouhl
effect the purpose for which it was intended. He
would point out that in many country roads it
was only necessary for the Government to maintain the road in a condition which would admit
of cattle passing over it. :Many roads could he
kept in good repair without any metal whatever.
There was no necessity for their being made suitable for wheel traffic.
Amendment put an(l negatived.
The POSTMASTER-GENERAL moved that
the words " and the lines or pavements" he
omitted from line two, after the word "tram·
way," and inserted in line three, after the w<ml
''town."
The HoN. \V. GRAHA::\I said he woulcl ask
the Postmaster-General whether the same description of rails were to be used for the towns
as were used for the country, or whether sunk
rails were to be used in the towns and ordinary
rails raised above the surface for the country
districts?
The POST:VIASTER-G EXERAL sai<l he was
not in a position to give an authoritative answer
t0 that 'Jll~stinn ; 1:J1lt ~,t :R0r.khampt''!l there w<>~
Railway and Tramway
[7
OcTOBER.]
a railway in which hardwood was placed on each
side of the rails, and it was found that that mode
of construction removed the possibility of obstruction to ordinary traffic_ \Vhatever was done
in the matter, however, the Government would
consult the public convenience.
The Ho"'. W. H. W ALSH said he did not rise
to answer the extraordinary speech of the Postmaster-General immediately it was delivered,
becau8e he was anxious that the business before
the House, which he considered more important,
should not he disturbed ; but the hon. member's
extraordinary statement in connection with his
appointment to that Chamber made him feel
that, as a man of honour and independence, he
was obliged to offer a few remarks. He had
gathered from the Postmaster-General that
though he (Mr. \Valsh) wa• not sent there expressly as a partisan, it was at least anticipated
hy the Government that he would become one.
The Postmaster-General had not only misunderstood him, hut seemed to have also misunderstood
the action of the Government in appointing him.
'l'he hon. member seemed to imagine that he was
not there as an independent man, and that because he was nominated by the Premier he was
hound to he a thick-and-thin supporter of the
Government and sit on the other side of the
House.
The POS'l':\IASTER- GRN"ERAL said the
hon. member was putting a construction upon
his words which they would not bear. He
expressly said the GoYernment did not recommend the appointment of the Hon. Mr. \Valsh
with a view to his becoming a partisan, hut
that, on the other hand, they did not think that
he would go into opposition and obstruct all
their measures.
The HoN. \V. H. \VALSH said the hon.
member knew perfectly well that he would not
come there with an embargo laid upon himthat he would not have any bargain whatever
a~ to the course of conduct he was to pursue in
that Chamber. He well remembered the consternn,tion of the hon. member when he was introrluced, and by mere accident took his seat upon
the Opposition side of the House. But the hon.
member exhibited so much had temper in the·
matter that, even if he had taken his seat upon
the other side of the House, he must have been
driven to the Opposition side by the hon. gentleman's conduct. Day after day, week after week,
he found it impossible to obtain a straightforward
answer to any question he might address to the
hon. gentleman. He had to complain of the
hon. gentleman's conduct day n,fter clay during
the first session he had a seat in that Chamber.
It was evident that the hon. gentleman acted in
this way because he had taken his seat upon the
Opposition side of the House. He did not receive anything like dispassionate consideration
or fairplay from the hon. gentleman. However,
he did not regret that he sat where he did; but if
the hon. gentleman insinuated that he took his
seat in that House upon the understanding that
he was to support the Government, he did him a
great injustice.
The POSTMASTER-G ENJ<:RAL: I mnst disclaim having said anything of the kind. I am
fully aware that the Hon. Mr. \Valsh took his
seat here as an independent member.
The Hox. \V. H. \VALSH said he could not
understand the hon. gentleman's reference, then,
to his being "bound in honour." He was under
no obligation whatever. His appointment was
not offered to him by the GoYernment, or he
would not haYe accepted it. He took it to be an
offer prompted by the kindly feeling of the
Premier.
The POSTMASTER - GENERAL : Hear,
hear!
1880-N
Extensions Bill.
105
The HoN. W. H. W ALSH said the Premier
had alone spoken to him on the subject: The
Premier was the only~(l:entleman with whom he
had communicated. .tiad the appointment been
offered to him in the name of the Government
he would have spurned it, and for a very good
reason-for the same reason, in fact, which had
given him courage to leave a Government. He
could not allow it to go forth to the country that
he had broken a promise or betrayed a trust ;
nor would he allow it to be said that he had
systematically opposed the Government. He
did not hesitate to say that he and the Hon. Mr.
1\fein had assisted the Postmaster-General more
than his closest supporters. Day after day he
had corrected the hon. gentleman's mistakes.
Not a day passed but that he had to point to
some defect in the mode of conducting business. He had done so on that very day ; he
had also done so on the previous day. He had
that day heard a discussion upon the subject,
and it was remarked that the Council would not
he sitting five minutes before the PostmasterGeneral did s<Jmething cnntrary to parliamentary
practice. That remark was justified by what
had transpired. Some equally unjust remarks
had been made by the Hon. Mr. Ivory. The
hon. gentleman accused him of playing the part
of a partisan. He had done nothing of the kind,
although when he saw errors he felt it his duty
to point them out, and although, whenever possible, he had taken it upon himself to suggest
improvements in the various measures which had
come before them. LT pon some of these occasions,
perhaps, hehadactedalittlemorestrenuouslythan
hrm. gentlemen were wont to do in that Chamber.
It was his nature so to do, as it was the nature
of other hon. members to conduct themselves
more passively, or, he might even say, indolently. But he did not quarrel with the hon. gentleman for so doing; nor should he be rebuked
because he pointed out errors and endeavoured
to correct them. He regretted that so much
personality had been introduced into the discussion. He admitted that he hail been the
cause of a great deal of it; but he could not
allow the Postmaster-General directly or inclirectly to insinuate that he hail betrayed a confidence reposed in him when he took his seat in
that House.
The HoN. F. ,J. IVORY said he would recommend the Hon. Mr. Walsh, in future, to do
unto others as he would have others do unto
him. The hon. member did not care to have
insinuations made with regard to his own actions;
and he should be careful, therefore, to aYoid
allusion to other hon. members as "henchmen"
or "adjutants" of the Government.
Amendment put and passed.
Clause, as amended, passed.
On clause 10-" Speed of tram or tramcar"The Ho"'. W. H. W ALSH suggested that the
clause sh oulcl be omitted from the Bill. If the
clause were rigidly enforced the railways would
be the slowest mode of conveyance in the
colony. If the tramways were to stop in Brisbane as frequently as did the tramways in
Sydney-that was to say, at almost every corner
of a road-the speed, supposing ten miles to be
the maximum, would be reduced in a journey to
:Fortitude V alley or the Racecourse, making
allowance for stoppages, to four miles an hour.
In Sydney the tramways to keep time had occasionally to make bursts at the rate of twenty
miles per hour at the very least ; and sometimes
if it were a case of catching a train, the stopping:
places were ignored. It should be left to t!lje
Minister for Railways to determine a safe and
necessary speed.
106
Railway anil Tramway
[COUNCIL.]
The POSTMASTER-GENERAL said he
could not fall in with the hon. gentleman's proposal. He found that in the United States the
speed in streets was limited to eight miles an
hour; and he noticed in a Railway Bill of the
Dominion of Canada that in some cases the
maximum speed was reduced to as low as six
miles an hour. He believed the speed on the
Sydney tramways was restricted to eight miles
an hour. He had seen the tramways travelling
faster there ; but he was informed upon inquiry
that it was against the instructions of the authorities. The clause would have a restraining influence in places where it would be dangerous to
travel more than ten miles an hour; and if where
there was a clear piece of road the driver went
faster, he did so, of course, upon his own
responsibility.
The HoN. W. PETTIGREW thought the
speed should be left to the discretion of the
commissioner, whose duty it was to control the
traffic. In some thoroughfares ten miles might
be almost too fast; but there were other cases
in which, if the rolling-stock were in good working order, no harm beyond a little extra wear
and tear would result from a speed of twenty
miles an hour.
The HoN. W. H. W ALSH said the hon.
gentleman did not understand him. His objection was not that ten miles an hour was excessive, but he said that if that was the maximum
speed, then the average speed that the motor
would go, if there were many stoppages, would
be reduced to four or five miles an hour. The
clause was not very clear as to whether ten
miles was to be the maximum or the average
speec'l. He would also point out that the clause
was inoperative as it stood, because there was
no penalty for transgressing it. It could be
defied with impunity.
The HoN. G. EDMONDSTONE was very
averse to the clause being passed without a limit
being fixed to the speed to be run through
towns and cities. He thought eight miles an hour
shoulc'l be the limit in such cases, and that outside cities or towns the speec'l should be fixed by
Government. He believed that a tramway
running at the rate of ten miles an hour across
streets would be very likely to lead to accidents.
The HoN. W. GRAHAM thought it was a
mistake to attempt to place public roac'ls and
streets on the same footing. He considerec'l ten
miles an hour too fast for town and too slow for
public roads in the country.
The HoN. W. D. BOX said, on the second
reading of the Bill he objected to the rate of
speed proposed, but he then thought the rate
only referred to the portion of a railway or
tramway within a city or town, and not to
public roads. It was evidently the opinion of
the Committee that in a city or town ten miles
was too fast, and that in the country it was too
slow.
The HoN. W. H. W ALSH saic'l the hon.
gentleman overlooked the fact that a tramcar
tra v~lling at the rate of ten or even fifteen miles
an hour was safer than a vehicle driven in the
ordinary way through town at a rate of eight
miles an hour; because, in the case of a tramway, the public knew it was a tram-C'.ar line,
and in addition to that it sounded a whistle
which warned people of danger. He believec'l
that if they limited the speed in towns to four
or five miles an hour people would not travel by
tramways, because it was speed that induced
people to travel by that means of conveyance.
The HoN. W. D. BOX said, to test the feeling
of tile Committee, he begged to move that on line
23 the words "within a city or town" be added
..after "street." It was his intention afterwards
Extensions Bill.
to move further amendments altering the rate of
speed from ten miles an hour to eight, and leaving the rate of speec'l outside cities or towns to
be fixec'l by the commissioner.
The POSTMASTER-GENERAL saic'l as the
feeling of the Committee was decic'lec'lly in favour
of an alteration of the clause, he should move an
amendment to the effect that the speed within a
city or town should not be greater than eight
miles an hour, and that outside cities and towns
the speed should be left to be regulated by the
commissioner.
The HoN. W. D. BOX withdrew his amendment, by permission.
The POSTMASTER-G:B~NERAL moved that
in line 23, after the word ''street," the words '' if
either a city or town " be inserted.
Amendment agreed to.
The POSTMASTER-GENERAL moved that
the word "ten," in the next line of the clause, he
omitted, with a view to in~ert "eight." He
could not say that he was altogether in favour of
the amendment, as he felt that eight miles an
hour was rather slow, and he was doubtful ah<'Jlit
the expediency of adopting it. He should therefore like to hear the opinions of hon. members
expressed more distinctly.
The HoN . •T. S. TURNER thought they had
better leave the rate of speed as it stood in the
Bill. It dic'l not follow that it was compulsory
that the motor should run at the rate of ten miles
an hour, and no doubt, if that speed were found
dangerous, the commissioner woulc'l limit it to
eight miles an hour. He was sure that, with the
stoppages that woulc'l be necessary in a cioy like
Brisbane, the average rate would not be much
more than four or five miles an hour. He did
not believe that there would he any danger whatever, as he had been in places where tramways
ran at times at a much faster speed than ten
miles an hour.
The HoN. J. SWAN thought they should
maintain the speed at ten miles an hour, as
specified in the Bill. He had seen buggies
driven at the rate of ten or twelve miles an hour
in Queen street.
The HoN. :B'.•T. IVORY understood that if
there was to be any amenc'lment it was not in
the direction of reducing the rate of travelling,
but rather of increasing it. He should support
the clause as it stood, as he thought ten miles an
hour wn.s a very low limit-there were plenty
of butchers' carts ran about town at the rate of
ten miles an hour.
~The HoN. W. D. BOX said he felt that he
had been very much "solc'l" on the present occasion, as he had withdrawn his amendment on
the understanding that the Postmaster-General
sh.ould move that the speec'l be reducec'l to eight
m1les an hour, and of course he thought the hon.
gentleman considered it a wise amendment ana
would support it. He hoped the Committee
would agree to the speed being limited to eight
miles an hour inside towns or cities.
The HoN. W. H. W ALSH thought it would
be much better to ac'lopt his suggestion and omit
the clause altogether, so as to leave the speed
entirely in the hands of the commissioner. He
should vote for the highest rate of speed, feeling
sure that the commissioner, or whoever was in
charge of the line, would not rnn at a speed that
was dangerous. At the same time, he would not
encumber him by making a pony-carriage of
what ought to be something very much better.
The POST:MAST:B~R- (mNERAL said he
was anxious to meet the views of all h<m. members, and it was in order to expedite the passage
of the Bill that he consented to move the amend·
Endowments to Municipalities, Etc. [7 OcTOBER.]
ment, which at the same time did not quite commend itself to his own judgment. However,
under the circumstances, he was prepared to
withdraw his amendment.
The Ho;>~. W. PETTIGREW said that he was
not particularly wedded to eight miles an hour.
He believed if it were found unsafe to run at a
greater speed than eight miles an hour, the Commissioner would not allow them to run at that
speed; and, if it were safe, he could not see why
they should be debarred from doing it.
The HoN. W. D. BOX said he could not consent to the withdrawal of the amendment, as he
had withdrawn his amendment on the understanding that the Postmaster-General would
move it.
Question-That the word "ten," in line 24, be
omitted, with the view of inserting "eight"-put
and negatived.
On the motion of the POSTMASTERGENERAL, the following words were added at
the end qf the clause, "and if outside a city or
town such speed as shall from time to time be
deemed expedient by the Commissioner."
The clause, as amended, was then put and
passed.
On clause 11-"Buildings may be erected"On motion of the HoJ'I. "\V. H. WALSH, the
omission of the word "lawfully," in line 2 of
the clause, was agreed to as being unnecessary.
The HoN. J. COWL IS HAW moved that the
following words be added at the end of the
clause :-"But such buildings or structures shall
not encroach upon any road or street."
The POST::VIASTER-GI<~KERAL said he
could not accept the amendment, because they
might have to make culverts, which would be
structures, and there were other buildings which
would come within the scope of the amendment.
He thought the Railway Act sufficiently protected the interests of private owners.
Question-That the words proposed to be added
be so added-put.
The Committee divided:CO:X'l't:N'J'S, 7.
The Hons. 1"\'... D. Box, J. Cowlishaw, 1Y. Pettig-rew,
J. S. 'l'nrner, G. Edmondstone, J. Swan, and W. H. ~..alsh.
NON·CONTI~XTS, {),
The Hons. L Hope. W. Graham, J. Ivory, F. II. Hart,
C. H. lluzacott, and J. C. l.,oote.
Question resolved in the affirmative.
The clause, as amended, was then put and
passed.
The rem<tining clauses of the Bill, together
with the preamble, were agreed to without discussion.
On the motion of the POSTJ\IASTERG:B~NERAL, the Chairman left the chair, reported the Bill with amendments, and the third
reading made an Order of the Day for to-morrow.
J<'ASSH'EHN RAILWAY.
A message was received from the Legislative
Assembly intimating that leave had been granted
to the Hon. J. JYI. Macrossan to attend before a
Select Committee on the above railway for the
purpose of being examined.
ENDOWMENTS TO MUNICIPALITIES
AND DIVISIONS BILL-THIRD
READING.
On the motion of the POSTMASTERGE::'Il'ERAL, this Bill was read a third time,
passed, and ordered to be returned to thP Legislative Assembly with the usual message.
AdJournment.
107
LICENSING BOARDS ACT AMENDMENT BILL-THIRD READIKG.
On the motion of the POSTMASTERGENERAL, this Bill was read a third time,
passed, and ordered to be returned to the Legislative Assembly with the usual message.
GOLD
MINING APPEALS BILLCOMMITTEE.
On the motion of the POSTMASTERGEKERAL, the House went into Committee to
consider this Bill, which was agreed to without
amendment; and, the House having resumed,
the Bill was reported, and the third reading
made an Order of the Day for to-morrow.
it;
ADJOURNMENT.
The POSTMASTER-GENERAL said, before
moving the adjournment of the House, he should
like hon. members to endeavour to make a
House at 4 o'clock to-morrow. They had on two
or three previous occasions had a Friday sitting
. appointed, but they had not been able to transact
any business through want of a quorum. There
was an important Bill for consideration to-morrow
afternoon ; and he would also introduce another
important measure to amend the Constitution
Act. He anticipated that these measures would
involve a good deal of discussion, and the longer
time the House had to consider them the more
perfect he hoped they would become. It was
therefore pat:ticularly desirable they should have
a quorum to-morrow afternoon. He begged
to move the adjournment of the House.
The Hos. W. H. "\V ALSH said he very much
doubted if there would be a quorum to-morrow
afternoon. He was quite sure that Friday was
a very wrong clay to introduce any important
measures such as those referred to by the Postmaster-General. He thought all important business should he begun at the early part of the
week, and not at the fag-end of it. He was sure
there would not be an attendance which would
justify hon. members in undertaking the consideration of important measures, and he would
suggest that the hon. gentleman should consent
to an adjournment until next week, so that the
officers of the House might not be dragged there
for no purpose as they had been on previous
Fridays.
'!.'he POSTMASTER-GENERAL said he did
not want the House to transact any very important business to-morrow, but he wished to move
the second reading of the Local W arks Loan
Bill, and would undertake not to come to a
decision upon it if hon. gentlemen did not wish
to do so. Another important object he had in
desiring to meet to-morrow was that he had not
been able to g8t the Bill to Amend the Constitution Act from the Print~r that afternoon, owing
to the Printing Office being so overburdened
with work in consequence of the numerous committees sitting. It was particularly desirable,
as he had before pointed out, that they should
commence the consideration of that Bill as soon
as possible, in order that there might be time to
consider it in the other House. If introduced
to-morrow it could be circulated the following
day, and hon. members would be prepared to
consider it next Thursday, and they would
thereby save a week.
The HoN. W. PETTIGREW said he had
attended on previous Fridays at considerable
inconvenience, and found there was not a quorum,
and he thought it was futile to attend again.
He knew two or three hon. members who would
not attend, and perhaps others had other engage·
ments. It would be far better for the hon.
gentleman to circulate his Bill as if he had
108
Constitution Act
[COUNCIL.]
authority to do so, and adjourn now until the
usual time on Wednesday next.
The HoN. F. J. IVORY said he had also
attended on Fridays when there was no quorum,
much to his regret, but he did not see that all
hon. members should neglect their public duties
because some did not choose to attend. He
thought it would be a very good thing if the
daily attendance of members were to appear in
every publication of Hcmsw·d, so that the public
might know who did and who die! not attend
to their public duties. He believed it would, to
a certain extent, shame gentlemen who hac! the
honour of being appointed members of the
Council into doing what he considered was their
bounden duty to the country.
The POSTMASTER-GENERAL wished to
remind hon. gentlemen opposite that he altered
his motion for an additional sitting day from
Tuesday to Friday at the suggestion and express
desire of the leader of the Opposition, although
it was a more inconvenient day for himself than
any other. It would therefore seem that it was
impossible to satisfy hon. gentlemen opposite.
Question put and passed, and the Hou£e
adjourned at twenty minutes past 6 o'clock.
Amenament Bill.