PROPOSED EXPANSION OF ENGAYNE PRIMARY SCHOOL
Minutes of Pre-statutory Consultation Meeting held on 3 November 2014
The meeting started at 6.00pm, chaired by Trevor Cook (School Provision &
Specialist and Commissioning Team Manager, LB Havering).
Present at the meeting were 6 LA representatives, 6 SLT staff & 5 Governors of
Engayne Primary, 1 Local Council member, approximately 40 consultees made
up of Parents/carers and local residents.
After introductions, Trevor outlined the agenda and the purpose of the meeting.
He explained that the there will be PowerPoint presentations by two LA
representatives, followed with a briefing by the Headteacher before the question
and answer session.
The following PowerPoint presentations were given by LA Officers;
i.
Proposal to expand Engayne Primary school by one form taking the
school to four forms of entry, including birth data and projection figures
by Pooneeta Mahadeo-. (As attached)
ii.
Building proposal plans which was based on the schools brief/
discussions with the Head teacher & governing bodies was outlined by
Andy Skeggs. (As attached)
During the presentations, there were questions and comments by the consultees
and responses that were given..
The following below represents most of the questions/comments received and
the responses given during and after the presentations. It also includes the 3
statements given by the Headteacher, a representative of the governing body
and the Local Council member during the course of the meeting.
Questions, Comments and Responses.
Q.
R.
Why are we expanding this school instead of expanding James Oglethorpe?
We are expanding James Oglethorpe. The fact is not either James
Oglethorpe or Engayne. Both schools will be expanded to carter for the additional
increase in numbers. It just a question of time.
Comment: Are we? This is the first time I have heard of it.
R: Discussions have been on going with the headteacher and she understands the LA
position regarding this.
Comment: Upminster Infant and Junior School went to an Academy to avoid being
expanded that is why you have approached Engayne.
Comment: Your data is mixed up you are giving us Havering data instead of Cranham &
Upminster. I don’t really care about what is happening in Havering. This growth is not in
our area.
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Q: Would the car park extension be screened off and landscaped.
R: Yes this will be screened as represented in the plans.
Q. I have counted about 8 staff who park on the street, how many car park spaces will
be provided?
R: 20 spaces will be provided
Comment: The Clinic development was rejected in the planning stages and yet the
council allowed the development to proceed. I do not trust the council anymore, even if
this plan is opposed, they will find a way to go ahead with it.
Response by a consultee: The development won on appeal, so that is why it went ahead
Q: Traffic on the road is still chaotic especially during drop off and pick up times, Parking
is still an issue even as things stand now would this be looked at?
R: The traffic survey already carried out will be reviewed again before the expansion
goes ahead.
Q: I don’t understand your plans; I don’t see the hall extension on the plans, where
exactly will the new classrooms be?
R: Plans were explained
Q: Will all the building expansion be a single Storey?
R: The KS1 will be a single storey whilst the KS2 will be a double storey kept according
to the current layout.
Q: What happens if the expansion does not go ahead? I understand that this was a
threat made by the council. If the school does not go through with the school will be
forced to take a bulge, extra resources will not be deployed and the other facilities like
the dining area, halls will not be expanded
Headteacher Statement: The decision to proceed to this current stage was made by
the governing body. The SLT together with the governing boy has gone through the
process to get to this point. There has been no secret about this that is why I felt that this
is the right time to share the information we have and where we are in the process. We
will continue to plan as we go along. Effective planning will require recruiting more
teachers and deploying resources appropriately to ensure pupils get the best education.
That is why I am hoping that parents and school work together on this to ensure the best
possible outcome for all children. I am happy to answer any further questions you may
have on this issue even after this meeting.
The traffic situation will get worse whether we decide to or not go ahead with the
expansion but we are working with the local authority to see how this can be improved.
That is why we have asked for a review on the traffic situation which will also include a
review of our school travel plan.
Q: Parking restriction is not enforced now, people are mounting kerbs and children’s
lives are being put in danger. How can this be dealt with if the expansion goes
ahead? This expansion is utter madness.
R: All these are being noted and will be taken back to the appropriate department in the
council to be dealt with. The planning process will require another traffic survey to be
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carried out and residents will have a chance to put their views forward again at that
stage. If children safety will be compromised then it will not go ahead.
Q: People are parking on double yellow lines and are not afraid to do so
R: The Council has agreed to review this during the planning stage and will continue to
be monitored.
Q: This school is already in a built up area with terrible traffic and parking
R: Most schools in the borough are in residential areas and only a handful of schools are
sited otherwise and a lot of the school expansions to date have been done in these
congested areas and we have encountered similar traffic and parking issues.
Q: There will be problems with parking and with the expansion there will be more
siblings coming from outside the area being driven to school
R: As siblings leave the school, the distance will reduce and hopefully this will reduce
those driving to school.
Q: I am concerned about my child’s education. What reassurances do I have that this
expansion will not affect standard, resources, extra-curricular activities?
R: Extra resources will be put in place and there will be revised timetable for sharing
common resources.
Q: The proposal has been put forward that it will be only 2 classrooms initially, but in the
long run the 210 places will increase the vehicular traffic.
R: The traffic issue is not specific to Engayne but traffic will be monitored as the school
grows year on year. There is site capacity to expand the school.
Q: Why has Engayne being singled out, surely there are other schools why are they not
being expanded? Why is James Oglethorpe, St Joseph’s not being asked to expand
R: The expansion of schools is across the borough. The pupils are there so places need
to be provided.
Q: Will the school take pupils from out of borough if it expands?
R: The school is already oversubscribed and as can be seen from the presentation its
cut off distance for 2014 is under a mile.
Q: How will teachers and pupils cope with the impact of this expansion eg noise,
disruption, changes in timetable etc?
R: The Senior leadership of the school is managing the school and will be planning
effectively to ensure minimal disruption. There will be no teachers’ time loss during
the expansion.
Q: Will the build take place only outside term time?
R: No it will also happen during term time and measures will be put in place to ensure
safety of children.
Q: Will Avon road be used for building supply deliveries instead of Isis drive to ensure
traffic and noise are kept to a minimum?
R: Advice will be taken from the highways authority and appropriate measures will be
put in place during the tendering stage.
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Q: The expansion project is huge and phased over 3 years. This takes away the time of
the headteacher from running the school. How much of the head teacher’s time will
this take?
R; We are not at that stage yet so I cant say how much of my time it will take. But the LA
will be managing the build project and the SLT will be working together with the LA to
ensure minimal disruption.
Q: Will the expansion lead to each cohort being separated during the build?
R: Planning will be done in detail later but the design has been done to accommodate
that each cohort stays together.
Q: I did not and like many other residents did not receive notification of this meeting, this
was obviously done intentionally.
R: The LA is under no obligation to consult residents at this stage. This is a pre-statutory
consultation for the school and parents were informed about this meeting. There is
an online survey for parents to give their views. The DFE has changed the school
organisation process. If a decision is taken to proceed to the next stage, then
residents will be consulted during the planning stage.
Q: Will the results of the survey be fed back?
R: This will be posted on the LA website and it will be sent to the headteacher to be
distributed.
Q: James Oglethorpe was promised an expansion, why hasn’t this happened?
R: There is certain criteria that needs to be met before a school is expanded. James
Oglethorpe is currently at 2FE in years 5 and 6 and it was made clear to the
headteacher that this is a temporary expansion.
Also it is LA’s preference to expand outstanding or good schools.
Comment: But James Oglethorpe is a good school.
R: They have just moved to being a good school; we want to see that sustained over a
period and it will be unfair to expect them to undertake an expansion project at this
stage. All the schools will eventually be expanded as we continue to see the growth
in the number of pupils. So it is not an either /or situation.
Q: There is spare capacity still in the Reception at Branfil and James Oglethorpe. Why
are these not being filled? Why can’t the extra pupils go there.
Q: To increase Engayne up to 840 is too big for a primary sized school and contradicts
the council’s policy as highlighted in your Commissioning School Places strategy
2012-16 as posted on your website and I quote “However, by 2016/17 there is a
projected need to commission up to a further eight Year R classes. This demand
may be met by the introduction of new schools. However, if this has not happened
there may be fewer schools who are likely to be able meet the criteria for expansion,
e.g. it would normally be against Council policy to expand a Primary beyond three
forms of entry, or an Infant or Junior school beyond four forms, because over
expansion could affect the ethos and organisation of a school, and be against
parental preference” How then can you justify expanding this school by another
form? Why is the LA not building a new school instead?
R: If we did not expand Branfil and other schools, there would have been children
without a school place. We cannot control parental preferences.
R: The report you are referring to is now dated and has been subsumed by so many
other factors and recent data as presented earlier. The artificial barrier of a 3FE has
been removed. Moreover the LA is no longer allowed to build new schools.
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Comment: There is no consistency in your data, how am I sure that the data you presented
today will be valid next year. I don’t believe what you are telling me. The council has
closed so many schools, didn’t they realize that the places will be needed? You are
creating additional capacity to carter for out of borough pupils.
Q: My niece is in Reception at Branfil and she tells me that they are about 23 in each
class, surely if you expand James Oglethorpe and fill Branfil with only local children
then it will solve the problem instead of expanding Engayne and filling it up with out
of borough pupils.
R: Havering is a net importer of pupils and in turn Havering pupils are also educated
outside of this borough. Our duty is to ensure that there is no child without a school
place.
Councillor Gillian Ford’s Statement: Historically, the Council decided to close schools
during the time of falling rolls as this wasn’t sustainable. Some schools were
amalgamated and new schools built in their place. The council cannot afford to build new
schools and is not allowed to. This expansion programme is across the borough to
ensure there are enough school places. In my capacity as a member; I and my member
colleagues will be discussing with officers to ensure the points raised about spare
capacity is dealt with.
Q: I have lived in this area for 12 years .We don’t care about what is happening in
Hornchurch or other parts of the borough, we only care about Upminster and
Cranham. That is why we have Residents representing us. Yet I have seen over the
years people coming from Thurrock under sibling criteria gaining admission into this
school.
R: Unless the sibling criteria is taken out of the admissions process, nothing can be
done about this.
Q: Will this expansion happen in Secondary schools as well? Will e.g. the likes of Hall
Mead be expanded to cope with the increase you are projecting?
R: There will be expansion of some secondary schools to carter to this demand as the
cohort moves through
Q: The KS1 plans and playground space are ok. The juniors will lose playground space;
this will be detrimental to my children. Surely resources will not be enough,
playtimes, meal times etc. How will this impact on the children?
R: Playtimes, meal times will be spilt and current timetable will be revised to carter for
the increase.
Q: I moved here and paid the price for an expensive house for my son to gain admission
here. I have always wanted it because it is an outstanding school. I now have to
consider whether to send him to Oakfields. The new admission intake closes shortly
even before a decision will be taken on whether the expansion will go ahead. I am
not sure whether to still put down this school as a choice. My young child will be
overwhelmed in a large with about 900 children.
R: Children’s safety and well being will always be paramount and this will not be
compromised. As the headteacher, I am happy to discuss this further with any
concerned parents even after this meeting. The proposal will also be discussed at
the open evening for new intakes.
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Q: I currently have a child in the school and another due to enter reception in 2016. I
don’t see how this will benefit the current children who will be leaving the school
before the build finishes?
Governing body Representative statement: Officers from the LA were invited to this
meeting at the request of the governing body to share the information and data that were
presented to us initially when we were approached. This wasn’t an easy decision for the
governors to proceed to this stage. We have not stood by the sides and said yes to all of
this. We have worked together, looked at the feasibility studies and secured the best
options for the school. That is why we have asked for a review of the traffic survey that
was initially submitted. Please be reassured that the governing body is representing the
interest of all the parents of children at this school and will continue to ask the questions
and get the answers that we want from the LA and then make decisions that will benefit
our children
Q: Will the governing body agree to this expansion regardless of the opposition and the
views of parents and residents here today?
R: We will make a decision on what we feel is true and correct.
Q: But our views and comments are true?
R: All the data & information we have received from the LA, together with the views from
those present here today include the questionnaire will be taken into account before a
the GB makes a decision.
Comment: But people’s view here is against this expansion
R: The parents of the new 2015 intake have not had the opportunity to comment.
Q: What happens if the governors decline the expansion?
R: The school may be asked to take a bulge class if the places are needed.
Q: Will this be in temporary classroom?
R: Yes, most likely in a demountable.
The meeting came to a close by 8.00pm. Trevor Cook and the headteacher
thanked all the consultees that attended.
Trevor Cook reminded all of the statutory process timeline as outlined in the
consultation document. He also reiterated that the pre-consultation period will
close on the 18th November and comments/ views can still be made until then,
through the online survey.
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