ORLEANS PARISH GRAND JURY
AUGUST 23. 1967
SPECIAL
PRESENT:
INVESTIGATION
MESSRS. JAMES ALCOCK, RICHARD BURNES and
NUMA BERTEL, Jr.,
Assistant
District
Attorneys
MEMBERS OF THE ORLEANS PARISH
GRAND JURY
MIGUEL TORRES
First
Appearance
Second
. . . . .
Page
1
. . . .
52
Appearance
*
Reported
by:
Maureen B. Thiel,
Secretary
Orleans Parish
Grand
*
Jury
Jc
*
*
(First
appearance
of Miguel
Toraes
Grand Jury - August
23, 1967)
before
the Orleans
Parish
after
being duly sworn by the
MIGUEL TORRES, witness
herein,
Foreman of the Orleans
Parish
Grand Jury,
was questioned
and answered as follows:
Q. MR. BURNES:
I am going
.
to explain
as a witness.
asked
Mr.
First
by myself
rights
that
any questions
Garrison,
you have
that
the District
you are
Attorney,
Numa Bertel,
the Assistant
District
\
or any of the Grand Jurors,
any of these
questions
Mr.
which
to answer
Now that
tend
under
Constitution,
.
of all,
or Mr.
Jim Alcock,
Attorneys,
not
to you certain
to incriminate
the 5th
and under
means
that
are guilty
or tend
particular
crime,
if
you,you
Amendment
answers
to show that
you do not
Constitution.
would
show that
you are guilty
have
a right
of the U. S.
the Louisiana
the
have
answer,
to
you
of a
do you
understand?
A.
Yes.
Q-
I want
just
to
caution
taken
you also
one is
and nothing
truth,
the whole
the
second
point
in
the
has two points:
the
ceedings
that
this
is
truth
that
room.
you will
With
regard
oath
that
that
you have
you must
tell
but
keep
the
secret
to the
truth;
the
secret
propart,
2.
the
law
court
is
clear
room and tell
are permitted
was asked
charged
this
of you or what
now this
isthe
if
oath
understand
have
If
is
that
say what
are
to tell
or a suspect
any other
person
be charged
in
you will
with
court.
The
tell
to take
falsely
would
you
you
a right
you will
is authorized
it
told.
you tell
you testify
ismaterial
unless
you are charged
Jury
this
You cannot
same as contempt
Grand Jury
of
happened
you were
So if
of that
oath,
if
of this
which
part
that
.
proceeding.
contempt
what
you would
only
the proceedings
under
anyone
go out
to do so by the court.
attorney
first
you cannot
as a suspect
you r
in
that
the truth,
testimony
on any on any point
constitute
perjury.
Do you
that?
.
A.
Yes.
Q*
Now it
would
constitute
and you do know.
stated
something
a fact.
car
In
even
the
other
words,
do not
have
thing
the
if
it
if
I were
if
privilege.
that
don't
if
know'
you
know it
to be
to ask you what
you do not
that
you must
If
'I
perjury
and you do not
is white,
is
you say
constitute
to say white,
though
final
would
as a fact
and you were
white,
Now,
It
perjury
one of
would
know
it
is
my
is
be false.
answer
the
color
questions
jurors
or the
if
you
3.
District
Attorney
you would
to answer,
the Judge
asks
would
to
it
constitute
you don't
then
decide
you fail
would
you a question
answer
and you refuse
be brought
if
you have
a question
Court
to answer
that
there
and
it.
you should
Is
perjury.
into
If
answer,
anything
that
understand?
.
A.
No,
I believe
Q*
Now you have
A.
Yes.
I understand.
had an opportunity
to talk
to your
attorney?
,
MR. GARRISON:
Q*
Miguel,
do you know Emilio
%
I would
like
permission
Santana?
to consult
my lawyer?
MR. ALCOCK:
Do you feel
ground
to the
you - whether
A.
I would
that
like
question
question,
or not
by itself,
would
in
without
any way incriminate
you know Emilio
to have permission
any back-
Santana?
to consult
my attorney.
MR. BUKNES:
Did
your
attorney
ask you to consult
with
him
on each
question?
A.
I would
Q*
Is
A.
and consulting
with
going out
I would like
to have permission
there
like
to have permission
any question
that
to consult
you will
your
answer
my attorney.
without
attorney?
to consult
my attorney.
4.
MR. ALCOCK:
Now you can go out
you cannot
i
only
and consult
relate
consult
to him that
him on a legal
understand
your
attorney
question.
issue
but
You can
only.
Do you
that?
FOREMAN:
You can't
tell
him what
we have asked
you.
tell
him
we asked you if
MR. ALCOCK:
You can't
Emilio
that
you knew
Santana.
JUROR:
We have
only
ask him about
asked
you one question
what
we asked
you,
and you can't
so you can't
there.
go out
.
MR. BURNES:
Do you feel
one time
that
and then
you need to consult
you can come back
questions?
A.
I would
like
to consult
my attorney.
FOREMAN:
I will
give
you one chance.
your
attorney?
MR. GARRISON:
Who is
with
in here
your
attorney
and answer
5.
A.
Mr.
Burton
Klein.
MR. BURNES:
He asked
A.
you to say that
I would
like
to consult
you wanted
to talk
to him?
my attorney.
JUROR:
Didn't
you consult
with
your
attorney
before
you came
in here?
A.
Yes.
Q-
What do you want
A.
I would
Q-
What
A.
I would
like
to
talk
with
him now for?
to consult
with
my attorney?
permission
to consult
about?
like
my attorney.
JUROR:
I say no,
don't
let
him go out.
FOREMAN:
Now,
let's
Grand
Jury.
We are
your
is
get
one thing
We will
going
to give
attorney.
not
going
give
you an opportunity
the
answer
going
will
of the
you go out and ask one thing.
if
to incriminate
We are not
I am Foreman
you your
However,
it.
think
let
claar.
right
to consult
with
we ask you a question
you,
to take
we will
advantage
to consult
damage you.
your
If
and it.
make you answer
of you,
attorney
we don't
we will
if
think
we
it
. _ _-.-.--.-
.~-_^-
--__--.-
_ ----..
_-
e--.w------_u
_I_---._-.-
--LIJI--~J~-~-U1I.L~UYLW.~.-_,~LI--_--.~Y..m~-*CYim-~~..
6.
will
not
damage you,
give
have
you the opportunity
with
your
Now,
you have
answer
you will
to ansmr
to go out
and we will
and consult
You can't
ask him what we ask you.
answer
to&
the questions
and if you don't
attorney.
we are going
to charge
(Exit
Mr.
you.
Torres)
(Reenter
Mr.
Torres)
under
oath.
FOREMAN:
Mr.
A.
you are still
Torres,
Yes sir.
MR. GARRISON:
Do you know Emilio
A.
Yes.
Q*
Do you know whether
in the
Texas,
A.
I would
like
fall
Santana?
or not
Emilio
Santana
was in Dallas,
of 1963?
to consult
my attorney.
FOREMAN:
You can't.
tell
you,
you I will
This
If
but
an answer
as long
will
incriminate
as an answer
not allow you to go out
how
is not/this
procedure
is run.
to do that.
will
you I will
not
incriminate
and ask your
attorney.
You are not
allowed
7.
Now if
sit
you do not want
down on your
take
I want
Q-
The answer
to consult
MR. BURNES:
Is
is
.
your
that
I would
question
rights
and we will
my attorney.
you cannot.
handwriting,
did
Did you type
like
the
the Judge.
with
no,
Can you type?
A.
Constitutional
you down before
A.
to answer
to consult
you write
that?
that?
my attorney.
JUROR:
Would
you say that
incriminate
A.
you,
I would
like
answering
is
that
that
question
would
it?
to consult
my attorney.
MR. ALCOCK:
The only
time
is when it
would
You can't
you.
answer
of
'I
understand
A.
you can refuse
I would
incriminate
refuse
would
to answEra
you or tends
to answer
like
question
to incriminate
a question
with
to see my attorney'.
an
Do you
that?
like
permission
to see my attorney.
MR. GARRISON:
Let
me ask you another
Dallas,
Texas
in the
question,
fall
of
Miguel.
1963 with
Were you in
Emilio
Santana?
8.
A.
I would
like
to see my attorney.
Q*
We would
Q
How old
are you,
A.
I would
like
like
to have an answer
Where do you presently
.-.
A.
Loufsiana~
Q-
How long
A.
About
Q-
What are you up th:re
A.
Burglary.
Q-
Where did
A.
I would
have
one.
Miguel?
to consult
State
to that
with
my attorney.
live?
Penitentiary.
you been there?
'
3 years.
you live
like
for?
prior
to consult
to going
to the Penitentiary?
my attorney.
MR. GARRISON:
Have you ever
in Dallas,
been at the
Club
I would
Q*
Do you know whether
like
Dallas,
Texas?
I would
like
to consult
my attorney.
or not
to consult
Santana
knew Jack
my attorney.
Q. MR. ALCOCK:
Do you have any brothers,
A.
I would
on Jefferson
Texas?
A.
A.
Beckley
like
to consult
Miguel?
with
my attorney.
Ruby in
St.
.--
9.
Q-
I would
like
to ask you a few questions,
obviously
they
will
not
after
you,
we are not
not
the
suspect,
information.
not
of Magazine,
or your
A.
I would
to consult
Q-
Do you feel
A.
that
your
did,
I would
to consult
is
You are
to get
some
in
1500 block
the
that
'
correct?
my attorney.
question
you lived?
We are
family.
at one time
with
that
you.
trying
mother
to say where
like
after
we are just
You lived
like
incriminate
Miguel,'
would
incriminate
that
question.
Answer
with
you
,
my attorney.
MR. BURNES:
I don't
know if
originally.
have
.-_
.
They were
about
anything
that
to answer
I can't
you may not
you or not,
question
that
not
four-fold:
tends
is
like
grounds
to incriminate
with
me, that
to answer
of the
'I
it
Jury
answer
can't
unless
But
it
tends
tends
to
incriminate
to
answer
that
refuse
it
you.
you.
a question
that
you must
to consult
incriminates
refuse
you say
to you
1, you don't
incriminates
Now whether
unless
that
that
to answer
you.
on the
law
anything
refuse
to incriminate
would
my instructions
make you or the gentlemen
make you answer
the
you understood
tends
it.
to
incriminate
me'
Now if
you say
'I
my attorney',
if
you are
saying
is
but
a question
one thing,
because
if
you may
you do refuse
10.
to answer
here
questions
and it
before
is not
incriminate
you,
or if
5th Amendment,
answer
that
question
that
would
ment
is up to 6 months
fine
and in default
and the Court
constitute
Prison.
answer
questions
would
to say it
is
orders
you to
if
you now so/you
you to answer,
of court
in Parish
do not
and say "I
like
to talk
men or refuse
would
tend
rule
orders
contempt
that
these
will
Court
might
and the punish-
Prison
and/or
$500.00
of the $500.00 fine another
year in
‘5,
Now, it is compulsory
that you have to
Parish
'I
the
right
it
failed
- I am telling
to answer
or
that
you have
then
fail
in here
Grand Jury
on the grounds
on the
sit
this
would
like
to answer
you.
If
You cannot
to my attorney",
You must
on the
you have to answer
do you understand
you.
to talk
to anyone'.
to incriminate
whether
incriminate
grounds
that
you refuse
that
answer
it
the Judge
question.
Now,
that?
FOREMAN:
These
are secret
attorney
proceedings.
in here.
MR. ALCOCK:
A.
When were
you born?
September
29, 1937
This
You have no right
is a private
proceeding.
to an
11.
Q*
MR. GARRISON:
Miguel,
do you know
involved
in
A.
I would
like
Q=
Did
Street
A.
Since
have
Arcacha
in
the
might
Q*
Miguel,
A.
I wish
Q*
Did
did
of President
individuals
Kennedy?
my attorney.
occasion
Smith
to meet with
in
the
have permission
I refuse
tend
the
Emilio
1300 block
Santana
of Dauphine
summer of 1963?
I do not
attorney
of some of
assassination
to consult
you ever
and Sergio
.'
the
the names
to answer
to incriminate
to consult
on the grounds
you and Emilio
my
that
it
the
fall
me.
you know Lee Harvey
permission
with
to consult
Santana
Oswald?
my attorney.
go to Dallas
in
of
1953?
A.
0.*
I wish
to consult
.
Do you know of the relationship
Jack
A.
permission
I wish
my attorney.
of Emilio
Santana
Ruby?
permission
to consult
(Jury. and witness
&ourt - Section
my attorney.
and Advisers
"H")
go into
and
:
12.
(Return
from
Court)
MR. ALCOCK:
Have
you had an opportunity
to consult
with
your
everything
that
was said?
attorney?
A.
Yes.
f-2.
You were
'A.
Yes.
Q*
You understand
A.
Yes.
in
Court
and heard
what
the Judge
instructed
you to do?
k
MR. GARRISON:
We have a statement
Santana,
.-
A.
Yes.
Q*
In his
New Orleans
tell
in
us about
I would
Q-
Did
Emilio
he described
the
Arcacha
A.
we obtained
from
Emilio
do you know him?
statement
Sergio
which
like
summer of 1953,
Smith
that
Santana
summer of 1963?.
as being
with
the meeting
in
with
you in
and he discribes
present.
You want
to
meeting?
to consult
you attend
a meeting
the
my attorney.
with
1300 block
Sergio
Arcacha
of Dauphine
Smith
St.
and
in the
13.
A.
I did
it
visit
was on the
Santano
Q-
a house
Do you recall
No.
Q-
You don't
A.
I want
Q*
You just
going
and Sergio
down here
A.
1300 block
side
telling
was present
the
lefthand
was there
brought
in
of Dauphine,
uptown
Arcacha
Lynn Loisel
from Angola
Smith.was
*hen
That
and Emilo
not
you were
Sergio
there.
first
Arcacha
at the meeting?
.
recall
that?
to consult
my attorney.
consulted
your
attorney,
didn't
you?
MR. BURNES:
Do you intend
ask you?
A.
No.
Q=
Did
A.
It
Unless
you ever
I got
live
address
us while
attorney
behore
answering
me why.
me why you said
ago?
questinn
that
we
you to answer?
St?
and sometimes
I gave
it
arrested.
you tell
tell
orders
on Magazine
Why did
you to
on every
the Judge
was my mother's
when
Q*
to say that
that
If
ago you had to consult
with
that
want
question?
you can give
when we asked
I just
me a reason,
you about
tell
ten minutes
your
14.
Tell
me the reason,
you would
your
answer
attorney?
anawer
-!
not
May I speak
Q*
Let me see that
I want
i
me in
your
own words
the
question
without
Did your
attorney
tell
questions
A.
-:
tell
and say that
to my attorney
piece
each
consulting
you not
to
time?
please?
of paper?
you to listen
why
That
carefully
you brought
to what
in here.
I am saying
,i
to you because
that
;;
you wanted
on nearly
every
question
to talk
to your
you have stated
att0rney.d
I am asking
c
you about
I
this
of paper?
answer
.i
piece
Did
on all
of paper.
your
attorney
Do you see this
tell
of the questions,
you to give
or just
piece
this
some of the
questions?
.-
A.
I would
Q*
You won't
this
to consult
tell
on every
A.
I would
Q-
It
A.
like
like
looks
us whether
question
what
your
the
attorney
a review
of each question,
the
question
before
question:
this
piece
I would
like
toconsult
is
you to say
for
Torres,
trying
to do is
he has to approve
he answers.
Miguel
of paper
told
my attorney.
get
this
attorney
or not?
to consult
like
my attorney.
I would
do you mind
identification?
my attorney.
of
like
to ask
if
I mark
15.
Q-
All
since
right,
this
piece
received
piece
A.
Yes.
Q-
All
of paper
it
from
of paper
right,
you don't
with
Miguel
from
object
I am marking
'MT',
meaning
Torres.
Did
that
I
I take
this
you?
inasmuch
as on nearly
question
Torres,
*
you have stated
that
you want
to talk
attorney
I am now asking
you:
did
attorney
these
Miguel
instructionsxand
ask to
see your
tell
attorney
your
you not
to answer
every
to your
tYPe
questions
Answer
on each question?
but
that
question.
A.
Will
you rephrase
Q-
I will
restate
of paper
of
piece
you have
asked
you this
every
the
piece
question
attorney
Miguel
which
rather
Torres,
to speak
to your
of paper
by saying
with
on nearly
every
attorney
you wish
my attorney?
from
on the
your
and instructed
answering
taken
'MT'
you whether
question.
May I consult
I have
Because
of paper.
than
please?
I have marked
I am asking
answering,
A.
it.
a piece
this
the question
the
instead
attorney
corner
question
of
gave
you to answer
to speak
question.
you
to your
Answer
16.
MR. BURNES:
Mr.
Foreman,
I think
we should
return
to Court.
(Exit)
(Return)
. ..J
MR. BURNES:
Miguel
have marked
every
Torres,
'MT'
question
in
attorney,
you this
piece
question
by saying
answer
the
we have
to your
than
I have taken
corner
asked
a piece
of the paper,
you you have
now I am asking
of paper
the
you did
and instruct
you wish
question.
of paper
which
because
asked
your
to your
Did he give
on
to speak
attorney
you to answer
to speak
I
every
attorney
you this
give
pie
rather
ce of
paper?
A.
Yes.
Q*
Why did
you feel
attorney
it
was necessary
when I asked
reason,
don't
A.
Maybe
Q-
When I asked
you?
I didn't
wanted
question?
to talk
you this?
What is
understand
if
your
you lived
to your
to consult
Why, you have
your
to have a
the reason?
question.
on Magazine
attorney,
with
did
Street
you said
you understand
you
the
17.
A.
.
Yes sir.
I did
mother
Q.
Well,
not
live
lived
on Magazine
why did
you feel
on Magazine
Street,
my
St.
that
you had to talk
to your
attorney?
A.
I was not
Q-
Not
sure
your
about
mother
A.
I do not
Q.
What
A.
I felt
Q*
Now,
' Q*
what?
lived
live
is
it
there.
was for
I give
not
is
it
if
The question
....
mother
attorney
the
there
address
point.
not
You said
sure
about
on Magazine
is
and you don't.
Q*
No,
it
has ruled
any time
Now isn't
you if
you could
I felt
it
wasn't
they
your
your
the answer?
Judge
if
question
that
You think
that
a fact
answer
that
it
to answer
your
attorney
so he
or not?
was necessary.
when you felt
asked
it
you have
you to ask to see him on each question
He said
the
so simple
told
A.
you weren't
Street?
question.
tell
sometimes.
my attorney.
this
could
or
about?
sure when it
there
knew
Miguel,
that
you lived
you not
lived
the
sure
you were
when I asked
Why were
lived
me to consult
we have passed
what
Whether.you
there?
you we:e
it
sure,
A.
sure.
it
was necessary,
you to say something
he said
besides
your
18.
name and age,
isn't
that
right?
Didn't
he tell
about?
Didn;t
>
A.
you which
question
to go ask him
you and him have
questions
A.
He said
a long
discussion
to go talk
to him
the questions
I fail
about
about?
it
what
Huh?
is necessary
to speak
to him.
he tell
you what
kind
of questions
Q*
Didn't
A.
I would
Q*
That
A.
I asked
you didn't
to talk
to him about?
Now,
he either
you did
that
you attended
answer
is not
they
would
be?
any questions.
what\1
asked
you?
he tell
you what
kind
of questions
told
you or he
didn't.
MR. ALCOCK:
Miguel,
1963 with
E'milio
A.
I do not
Q*
How did
A.
We drove.
Q*
Who drove?
A.
In my car.
Q*
What kind
A.
Buick,
Q-
What color?
testify
on Dauphine,
know whether
you get
of car
'51 Buick.
it
that
right?
was 1963 or 1964.
there?
did
is
you have?
a meeting
in
19.
.
A.
Black
Q-
Who went
A.
Myself
Q-
Did he tell
A.
The time
in
with
you?
Besides
Erailio?
and Emilio.
you the purpose
when I made the statement
the house
with
I remember
hdd kind
of greenish
looking
he had high
type,
with
was Maria.
There
at the
that
time
nervous
I did
cheek
not
was another
during
Which
on Dauphine
he
5'1l",
athletic
typical
couple
remember
.....
about
Mexican
time
his
I notice
bones,
I - at the
was Roberto
woman,
much.
eyes,
He was with
Indian.
Mexican
that
looking
was a man living
- there
another . woman,
name was Sergio,
mixed
of going?
woman,
lived
her name
in
I say this
the
Spanish
the house
I was so
course
his
name
JUROR:
house
on lefthand
St.?
A.
Yes,
side
going
toward
Canal
Q*
Riverside
A.
Yes.
Its
doors
- and they
look
so much alike
had a green
door
to the house?
St.
of Dauphine?
French
Q*
This
A.
Yes.
Q*
A.
What was the
I notice
We went
there
looking
house,
a bunch
reason
to eat
old
looking,
-
of them had green
for
the
the meeting?
Spanish
has green
rice.
doors.
*
20.
i
Q-
Any other
particular
A.
No.
Q*
You didn't
talk
from
aren't
Cuba,
reason
about
for
going
there?
the Cuban situation
- you are
you?
A.
No - yes I am from
Qa
When did
A.
Dec.
Q-
When did
A.
It
Cuba.
you come to the U. S.?
25, 1951 or 1952,
a long
time
ago.
. -’
you first
was latter
partof
am confused
Q-
How did
A.
Its
such a long
the date
time
people
Did he tell
ago.
I was using
I think
it
I
narcotics
was in a place
the Copa Cabana Bar,
and I would
you why hems
then
go there
he was in
a bar
on
frequented
once in a while.
town?
l
No.
Q-
Did you become close
A.
Well,
I would
associates,
Q*
....
of 1964.
to meet Emilio?
I think
St.
by Spanish
A.
about
Santana?
1963 or beginning
you happen
Decatur
Q-
meet Emilio
Going
back
No.
Q-
Was there
after
that?
say associates,
not
friends.
more or less
acquaintances.
to the meeting
on Dauphine
any discussion
A.
friends
an%
about
St.,
Not
close
was there
Cuba at all?
any discussion
about
President
Kennedy
at all?
..
21.
A.
No.
Q-
Did you know Roberto
A.
Yes.
Q-
Where did
A.
See him
Q*
Did
A.
Maria
Q*
Did
A.
Yes,
Q*
What color
A.
I know he had a red one,
/’
It
A.
No.
Q*
Did
A.
No.
to going
there?
you know him from?
around
on Decatur
you know Maria,
was not
Santana
his
his
have
Street.
wife?
wife.
Dolores
a car?
was his
wife.
When he was here?
he had a '58 Buick.
color.
Q-
prior
was it?
It
wasn't
but
was a '58 Buick,
one solid
you ever
The only
attend
time
did
not
Q*
Did
you ever
A.
No, never.
0.
Did
A.
I have
Q*
Would
you recognize
A.
Well,
I seen him
I can't
recall
I think
black
the other
on top.
color?
any other
I went,
meeting
I guess
at
food
that
location?
was so bad I
go back.
you ever
meet
Clay
Shaw?
meet
a boy by the name of Alvin
seen him on television.
him if
once.
you saw him?
Bobeauf?
22.
._:
p
1.!
Q*
Would
you recognize
A.
No.
Q.
Did you ever
him?
see him in the company of,
him
like/in
the company of Emilio?
who looks
A.
No.
Q-
you know any of Emilio's
A.
A couple
of boys he came here
stayed
on Magazine
some such,
just
St.
a minute,
of the
It
at that
with
time?
from Miami.
was the
2700 block
They
or
I know it was around - before you get to
L
it was between Washington
St. and Louisiana
Louisiana
no,
friends
or anybody
just
apartments
Were there
Washington
or rooming
quite
and Louisiana,
houses
a few Cubans in
they
that
-
one
have cheap.
location?
3 or 4 of them.
Did Emilio
He did
mention
What did
Like
Miami
ever
tell
you he was working
for
the CIA?
that.
he say?
conversation,
- infiltrate
He carried
like
he used
Cuba - he said
to make trips
he was a frog
to
man.
money sometimes.
Q-
Did you believe
A.
No sir.
(2.
Did he ever
A.
Sometimes
try
him?
to interest
he say you have
you in working
to join.
for
I say what,
the
CIA?
I have
23.
pretty
bad habit,
I am sick
most
of the
time.
.I
can't.
These
two boys
remember
A.
their
No, nothing
memory.
for
you said
were
living
with
Emilio,
you
names?
ever
happened
I know there
a Cuban,
to impress
the names on my
was one quite
and looked
like
blond
hair,
a German lad.
unusual
He rode
a’53
or
‘54 Oldsmobile.
Q*
What colorwas
A.
It
the automobile?
was a little
black
darker
this
and I think
it
was
and tan,.4-door.
Q*
Was his
A.
No, he had a receding
Q*
Can you describe
A.
I notice
the
than
hair
long?
there
reason
Mixture
the other
was a skinny
I notice
with
forehead
about
looking
Indian
Q-
About
how tall
A.
I would
Q*
How tall
A.
About
5-l/2
Q*
About
5'7"
A.
Yes,
color,
was he?
say maybe my height.
are you?
or 6'.
maybe?
possibly.
was natural.
boy who lived
one in
there
him he was typical
Spanish,
funny
and it
with
him?
with
him,
Cuban-Indian
80% more Indian,
that
very
is how I remember
dark
him.
-
24.
Q*
How tall
A.
About
Q.
Did
is
the blond
5-10
or 9.
you ever
boy?
Looked
like
football'type.
go anywhere
with
Emilio
and the
two
boys?
/
A.
No.
Q-
Did you ever
A.
No.
Q-
Did Emilio
A.
Yes.
Q-
Were-
A.
Yes,
associate
have his
them much at all?
family
or was he living
he was staying
the name Florida
the
with
down here
with
his
family
on Magazine
Ave.
at that
St.
Project,
time?
on Magazine
St.?
and he mentioned
but
I never
did
ask for
address.
Q-
Have you ever
heard
A.
No.
Q*
How about
A.
Pedro
Q.
No,
the
A.
No,
I think
Q*
Do you know if
A.
No.
Q@
Have you ever
A.
Yes,
I have a brother
in
‘Dallas
at one time
on Honor
Teclo
of a man by the name of Rich
Pedras,
Lochley?
or Pedros?
Cellos?
last
name is
Pedros.
I remember
if
I heard
ever
went
Emilio
been
to Dallas
the name.
to Dallas?
in your
the Federal
life?
'
Penitentiary
Farm and I made a trip
in
25.
to see him
to Dallas.
Q*
When did
you go?
A.
It
Q*
Were you there
A.
No sir.
Q-
And you don't
was '62
or possibly
in
the
end of
'61.
or not
Emilio
1963?
know whether
was there
in
brother
was
.
1963?
A.
No sir.
Q*
You say your
brother
was in
Dallas,
which
that?
A.
The oldest
Q-
When did
A.
He has been out
.-
brother,
he get
a salon,
You know Nina
A.
Yes.
Q-
When you were
A.
No,
It
Hotel,
College
and opened
wife.
who works
in Dallas
back
to Beauty
a long
did
trip,
- we stay
here
in
the Parish?,
you go to the
we went
at something
Beckley
straight
like
Club?
there
and
the Patio
a drive-in.
You did
went
and he went
Salzer,
was such
come right
Q*
out?
he and his
Q*
Joseph.
not
go out
on?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Who was with
you?
around,
you stayed
in motels
and then
26.
i
Q*
My mother
was with
Q*
Whose car
did
A.
My brother's
Q*
Do you know who owns the gas station
it
one is
fixed.
is owned by the
A.
but
they
at Washington
own a couple
at Washington
Another
the name,
Q*
car.
where
one at La. & Magazine
same brothers.
I know they
that
to see Emilio
there?
A few times
incident.
live
....
in
station
that
house,
it
and I believe
remember
are brothers.
at any time
I believe
to get my
But I can't
have occasion
station
of gas stations,
I used
Did you ever
Yes sir,
and
The Cuban boys?
I believe
Q.
Luke's
I know a Cuban family,
car
.....
you go in?
car,
MagazifSe?
A.
me, I remember
it
is
when you were
so hard
I think.
to recall
You see he used
was 2 or 3 blocks
and he used to frequent
the
this
from
house
to
the gas
and these
people.
Q*
What,
the house?
A.
In
Q*
Was that
A.
these
A.
It
the
2700 block
What house
are you talking
about?
or something?
Or just
of Magazine.
a Cuban family
there
two guys?
was a rooming
house
or something
and they
had these
in
27.
3 or 4 or 5 Cuban'refugess
of all
nationalities
I pull
up in
standing
Q-
with
A.
his
St.
fixing
his
You remember
around
gas station
on Harmony
trouble
Buick
up in
the
there
station
he had
talking
and some man approached
No,
been approached
you ever
I was
At thetime
you were
of joining
that
time
'
car.
possibility
suggested
at the
Buick.
people
once or twice
and I pull
his
one time
I never
and Spanish
and I believe
the
and I see him
there
some anti-Castro
by anyone
to Emilio
you about
the
organization?
except
when Emilio
Ijoin.
Q=
Did
A.
No sir,
Q-
You have
no political
inclinations
one way or another?
A.
No sir.
I grew
this
and I love
up in
I have
what
is
do anything
ability
Q-
Have
A.
No.
Q-
How about
A.
No,
in any organization?
I didn't.
States.
with
participate
democratic
going
about
country
on in
way of life.
I don't
to do anything
about
you ever
Jack
I saw him
known
Ruby?
on TV.
I disagree
Cuba at the moment
it,
have the
the United
I can't
intellectual
it.
a man by the name of Warren
Reynolds?
28.
Q*
Jack
A.
No sir.
Q.
Kenneth
A.
No sir.
Q.
Hank Killigan?
A.
No.
Q*
How about
A.
No.
Q*
Guy Johnson?
A.
No.
Q*
How about
A.
No.
Q*
A big
A.
No.
Q*
I want
if
Lawrence?
Leckey?
Dago Garner?
\
Loran
man with
Hall?
a beard?
you to look
you recognize
at these
pictures
and tell
any of them?
A.
This
is
the man you showed me previously.
Q-
That
is
not
A.
No,
Q*
You are positive
A.
Very
lot
the man Sergio
referred
you to?
of difference.
of that?
positive.
Now this
place
us
man here
in the
remember
was a shoeshine
600 block
him he used
boy in this
of Carondelet
to play
thebongo
St.
barber
the.reason
drums
and I
I
29.
like
to hear
cut,
the name of
Q-
Is
it
A.
George.
Qa
Is
A.
He probably
Qe
'That
A.
I knew
Q*
You never
A.
No,
to go get
my hair
George's
Barber
is
Who is
the owner
of
Shop.
the place?
he Cuban?
is
is.
Selzo
that
not
Hernandez.
he worked
saw Jack
until
this
you ever
A.
No.
Q*
You never
A.
No sir.
Q*
Did
A.
No.
Q*
You know he used
A.
Well,
Bobeauf,
know Bobeauf
saw him
as far
to live
in 1964,
Q*
YOU
have
never
A.
Not
until
after
Q-
He wasn't
No sir.
seen Mr.
at that
I would
a year
this
for
before
the
all
first
this?
when he was here
in
the
lived
later
4900 block
in the
after
all
this
Shaw?
remember
on Dauphine
that.
in
Street?
the
City?
of Magazine?
1500 block
happened.
meeting
time.
as you can remember?
see Lee Oswald
you see my mother
Magazine
life?
happened.
man,
Did
you ever
there.
Ruby in your
what
Q-
A.
the place
a Cuban place?
I recognize
*
them and I used
of
happened.
30.
This
man's
can't
face
place
sounds
You recognize
that
man?
A.
No, but
I recognize
the
Q*
You recognize
A.
This
this
man might
and that
familiar,
but
I
him.
Q.
features,
A.
I couldn't
say,
Maybe not.
,
but
is why he might
Where do you think
Spanish...
man at all?
be familiar,
Q*
look
a vague
I might
have
seen h'im
familiar.
you might
idea
have
seen him?
that
I might
have
seen him
k
sometiere.
Q-
a little
The only
people
recall?
This
you feel
man here
you might
have
maybe and this
seen you can't
man here,
is
that
something
like
that
time
ago.
right?
A.
Yes,
it
but
It
is
I can't
is
Where were
A.
My mother
to help
would
recall
so hard
Q*
Q-
possible.
it,
it
to remember.
of 1963?
had a restaurant
on Arabella
I was serving
come out,
and I went
in your
mother's
Have you ever
heard
A.
No,
you mentioned
99
Laurence
A.
No.
I believe
brings
has been such a long
you in November
her,
you were
The face
Howard?
draft
beer
back
.....
restaurant
of Loren
Street.
and my sister
on Arabella
Hall?
that
I used
before.
St?
31.
Q-
William
Seymour?
A.
No.
Q*
Henry
A.
No.
Q-
Gary Patrick?
A.
No.
Q*
How about
A.
I have
Q*
You never
A.
Not
Q-
Carlos
A.
No,
Q*
Bruce
A.
No.
Q*
Officer
A.
No,
Patrick?
David
heard
Ferrie?
the
name.
met him?
personally,
no‘.
Quiroga?
I seen pictures
of him.
Ray Carla?
Tippit?
I read
,
about
him,
but
I never
did
see a picture
of him.
Q*
Harry
Olsen?
A.
No.
Q*
You ever
A.
I believe
heard
Penitentiary,
got
arrested
like
that
anything
I read
something
some kind
for
about
having
the Minute
about
that
of organization
dynamite
in Time Magazine.
with
Man Organization?
when
I was in
- I know they
them - something
the
32.
Have you ever
met anyone
who was a Minute
Man?
No.
How about
Adrian
I might
No.
How about
No,
Gordon
I am going
the
heard
the name.
name.
a Cuban,
or Latin-American
and I am going
to ask if
of anybody
you know?
5'10",
dark,
hea&et,
strong
neck,
strong
shoulders
recall
meeting
do you ever
A.
I never
...
Q-
Have you ever
...
No.
Q*
Albert
A.
No.
Q.
Did
built
with
and a scar
over
anybody
like
I would
or
a big,
his
left
him
...
that?
remember
a man by the name of John Howard
.
you ever
No.
Q-
Did you ever
across
hear
in the summer of
Cuban training
A.
No.
5'8"
Osborne?
these
A.
the
A man about
athletically
I am sorry
met
he fills
Bowen?
A.
of him?
Novel?
to describe
description
eye -
you ever
have heard
I heard
to you,
Alba,
the
hear
camps across
Emilio
Lake while
mention
'63
anything
about
the Lake?
anybody
he was in the City?
in
the CIA
33.
Q*
A.
Did Emilio
here
in
No.
All
ever
the
mention
any CIA contacts
he had
City?
he talked
and he liked
about
to impress
- he was very
people
talkative
but he was
man
chronological
liar.
Q*
How about
Layton
A.
I heard
Q*
James
A.
I heard
Q.
Did
A.
No.
Q-
From conversations
No.
Q*
Would
meet him?
on TV.
Llewellyn?
you take
refreshes
Now this
with
your
is
but
you,
the
met him.
the President?
have we ever
asked
you to
truth?
a look
at these
memory
about
one of the houses
pictures
the
and see if
Dauphine
- they
look
Street
it'
address?
so much alike.
Burnes:
They are
all
of Dauphine
it
A.
you ever
the name and I saw him
us anything
A.
Mr.
Did
the name on TV, I never
I
you know of any plot to kill
tell
A.
Martens?
is
one of
8. am looking
the houses
St.
Now,
those
at the
along
if
the
the house
block,
is
the
in that
1300 block
block
houses.
ones I can remember,
because
I would
.
34.
park
It
on the curb
is either
can't
Do you recall
A.
I know that
walked
but
the fire
It
A.
This
one is upstairs,
this
house,
Yes,
fairly
right
here.
houses
right
I
here.
plug?
back up one of these
Q-
A.
houses
I came and parked
You feel
If
man is parked,
one of these
Q.
A.
Q-
this
one of these
recall,
Q.
like
certain
near
the corner,
steps
about
we
here.
that?
I am positive.
is 1320 or 1318?
this
it
one of these
one is 1320 this
fairly
sure it
was this
No, it
was upstairs.
two.
I don't
did not
must be 1318.
house or
You feel
Did you go through
is one of these
to believe
remember,
this
two.
one?
It
I am more inclkned
is either
it
they
would
look
3 houses
Was it
A.
No, evening.
so much alike
night?
JUROR:
Was the man who lived
A.
This
other
Q-
He walks
A.
No sir,
couple
with
drunk
they were staying
a sort
he . . . .
here
of limp?
all
here.
be one of these
pay too much mind to detail.
Q=
a gate?
the time?
there.
and I
35.
Q*
I am talking
about
bones who looked
A.
No, I did
Q*
Cross
A.
No, slim,
not
the man with
like
notice
the high
cheek
an Indian.
him walking
with
a limp.
shoulders?
regular
not
big,
khaki
had just
eyes,
but nice;
pants,
he wore a bandlon
the reason
I remember
met him and he had green
color.
pre$ty
That
eyes,
shirt
him I
pretty
is how I remember
green
his
face.
MR. ALCOCK:
Did you see him any-time
A.
No, it
is possible
after
I might
that?
have seen him,
but
I don't
remember.
.-.
Q-
Were they
A.
Yes,
P-
How did
A.
Yes.
Q-
You did
Emilio's
Emilio
friends?
seemed to know him pretty
you happen
to go there?
good.
With Emilio?
A.
know them prior
to going there,
did you?
and Dolores
I knewRobertobnd
I see Maria a few times before.
Q*
Did you .know where
A.
Roberto
give
not
cut hair
him dollar
Q*
Did I ever
A.
I don't
Q-
You must have
they
worked,
of friends,
Roberto
sometimes
or . . . . . 3.
people
or two.
talk
to you in the D,A.'s
office?
remember.
talked
to Mr.
Garrison
and Loisel?
maybe
36.
A.
Yes,
I talked
to him,
he is
the
one.
What is
your
name?
Q*
See how simple
My name is Alcock.
this
is,
when you
the
truth,
as is
answuz questions.
A.
Yes.
Q-
'Ihis
Grand Jury
the District
hurt
is
only
Attorney's
You never
you.
Cuban camp across
it
asking
office.
heard
did
A.
No,
Q-
Do you hang
around
A.
No,
I had a bad habit.
because
social
We are not
here
any conversation
the Lake,
was mentioned
for
to
about
any
you?
to me before.
with
a Cuban crowd
much?
I did
not
have
time
for
activity.
Q*
What relationship
A.
My cousin.
to you is Angelo
Sylva?
JUROR:
How long
A.
have
you had the habit?
Since
1962 - 1964,
I went
to Mandeville
could
do nothing
Lexington
I try
to get
and then
for
* help
narcotics/in
I went
to Charity
so many months,
A.
Late
remember
1963 or 1964,
- he
me - so I made an application
by then,
but
it
is
MR. ALCOCK:
You can't
New Orleans
when you first
somewhere
met Emilio?
around
there.
over
for
with.
37.
Q=
The charges
were
you are presently
doing
and in which
he was with
burglary
time
on
you,
right?
at that
time?
When was that?
A.
1964,
Q*
Emilio
A.
Very
I remember
did
that.
not
speak
English
at all
little.
JUROR:
A.
Are
you a citizen?
No,
but
I believe
there
is
some one comes here“from
under
age and your
a certain
a foreign
father
law
that
country
when
and you are
is a naturalized
citizen
you
might come under that category.
MR. ALCOCK:
Your father
is a naturalized
citizen?
q*
A.
Yes.
Q*
What will
A.
My brother
you do when you get
will
teach
out?
me in Beauty
College.
I learn
fromhim.
Q. BYAJUROR:
What did
A.
I got
you do before
the
second
habit
See I had a sister,
it
for
going
her
about
to die.
in hospital
you got
in
involved
1962,
the
she had a fatal
3 years,
The last
we knew it
8 months
day and night
with
first
habit
disease
from
the
of her
andmaybe
this
dope?
in
1958.
and she had
start,
life
I just
she was
I spent
just
with
used
38.
to take
pills
I became
to go to sleep,
an addict,
I went
that
is how I started.
to the Penitentiary
in
1958.
Q@
Did
A.
Yes.
you take
Then I shipped
with
.'
heroin?
out
a couple
of times,
I worked
:
my brothers.
Qe
What did
A.
Everything.
Q*
You stole
A.
Yes sir.
you steal?
to buy dope?
i
MR. ALCOCK:
Miguel,
the Grand Jury
I have never
asked
in our office
ever
A.
Sorry . sir.
Qe
All
right,
did
you ever
A.
No sir.
Q*
She never
A.
No.
Q*
Did
A.
I never
Q*
Did
A.
No.
your
talk
you to lie,
she ever
did
you ever
tell
talk
talk
asked
have
you to lie
I?
and
Did anybody
ask you to lie?
privilege.
That
to her
I was working
talked
has never
about
in
is
OK.
Department.
the assassination?
you she was a good friend
to many people
to Bundy
Salzer,
the assassination?
the
to you about
Nita
about
about
it?
Clay
of Clay
Shaw.
Shaw?
39.
Q-
Do you know him?
A.
Yes.
Q-
You know him on the
street?
A.
I seen him a couple
of times.
a
JUROR:
,In
your
did
..'
A.
association
you'have
I cannot
with
several
answer
the District
conversations
that
Attorney's
with
office
people
there?
question.
MR. ALCOCK:
I think
he said
he talked
to Mr.
Garrison
and Lynn
Loisel.
.-
Q-
Do you know anything
A.
No.
Q-
And the only
time
time
you passed
A.
Yes.
Q-
You spent
A.
Yes.
Q-
Then the next
A.
Yes i
Q.
You are under
charged
about
you have been to Dallas
through.
the whole
with
night
morning
oath
perjury
going
Yes.
at all?
is the one
to see your
brother?
in Dallas.
you immediately
and you realize
unless
and you were at no other
A.
the assassination
you tell
time
left?
that
the
in Dallas,
you can be
truth
is that
right?
40.
Q-
Did you come from Cuba to New Orleans?
A.
Yes.
Q-
And you have
A.
Yes,
except
lived
here
ever
when working
since?
on the coast
and shipping
out.
JUROR:
Q*
where
is the place
where your
brother
A.
About
15 miles
of Dallas,
right
out
.
was incarcerated?
between
Fort
Worth
and Dallas.
Q*
And on your
coming
way back did
you pass through
t
back?
A.
Yes.
Q*
You did not
A.
Yes, we had to come to Dallas
Qm
You had to stop
A.
Yes, we spent
The trip
Dallas
stop
in Dallas
coming back?
coming back
this
way.
in Dallas.
the night
was so long
in Dallas
we decided
coming back.
to rest
before
driving
on.
Q*
When you cane back through
A.
I can't
Q*
You checked
A.
Yes,
Q*
Did you eat
A.
We went
remember
and left
into
Dallas
where did
the name of the hotel,
you stay?
motel.
the motel?
in the morning.
supper
out a little
that
night
place
in the motel?
Or go out?
must hzk have been about
1O:OO
41.
orll:OO
o'clock
and we see a sign
and we ordered
some steaks,
say 'Restaurant'
nobody
ate
nothing,
bad food.
Q*
You did not
A.
No, tired
Q-
Did Mr.
go out
travelling,
Sheridan
what you said
._ A.
I would
to a night
like
long
try
club
or bar?
trip.
to contact
you,
without
going
into
or what he said?
.
to consult
with my attorney.
MR. ALCOCK:
Q*
Are you on active
probation,
a parole
officer?
A.
I report
every
Q=
When do you come up for
A.
(Inaudible)
Q*
IS your
A.
No, I had a brother
Q-
Without
going
outside
of our office,
brother
to say anything?
trick
do you have
No.
Q*
When did
to
3 weeks.
parole?
in jail?
In Texas?
in jail
into
in Texas.
any relationship
with
has anybody
Not in our office,
given
you say you met Emilio
our
Santana?
office,
you any money
I am not
you.
A.
to report
trying
to
42.
MR. BURNES:
A.
I think
it
early
in
was at the
Do you know a Maria
A.
I know a Mexican
Q*
with
. A.
A.
last
There
Santana?
girl
named Maria,
but
I don't
know
name.
was a girl
Angelo
named Maria
Sylvio
in
Santana
who was arrested
1964?
What month?
(Inaudible)
. . . . in which
connection
with
it
A.
Possibly
Q*
Was she any relation
A.
No sir,
Q*
Emilio
k.
Yes,
but
is more
Maria
pretty
it
girl
two months
in
later
Santana?
girl
to Emilio
this
were witnesses
and about
was the Mexican
because
is
they
a burglary
do you know that
...,
.-
Street
1964.
Q-
her
Copa Cabana on Decatur
at the house
that
night.
Santana?
is Mexican.
dark.
is
different
Spanish
blood.
color
from
the
Indian.
Emilio
JUROR:
Did
you ever
have occasion
A.
No,
I never
Q*
Do you know Carlos
A.
No,
the
Q-
Did
you go to school
had any business
to visit
over
the Trade
there.
Quiroga?
name was mentioned
to me before.
in New Orleans?
Mart?
43.
A.
I went
Yes,
come here,
test
to McDonogh
1, went
and they
to Peters
then
Jr.
I joined
National
motor
and it
me in Jr.
High
School
the
for
about
30 months
to 200 block
years
about
about
4 years,
it
a year
and half,
I stayed
in the
was Standard
Motor
and Dauphine,
had grown
pretty
there
Electric
later
about
there.
MR. ALCOCK:
Q-
What
are you doing
in
A.
I work
in
the warehouse,
Vhy is
it
so important
the Penitentiary?
typist.
JUROR:
National
that
you won't
Broadcast?
A.
I would
like
to
Q*
Afraid
A.
I would
Q-
Do you know Louis
A.
No.
Q*
You know Layton
A.
No,
of being
like
I heard
see my attorney.
indicted
or something?
to see my attorney.
Rabel?
Martens?
of him.
on,
so we moved
for
good over
a
I went
electric
I work
I first
and I took
I did
business
I learned
when
School.
Guard,
of Claiborne,
maybe.
High
on Frenchman
later,
there
8 months,
for
National
the name of
was located
I went
about
put
Guard
works,
for
15,
discuss
the
2
44.
l
Q*
Do you know
Guy Banister?
A.
No sir,
the name was mentioned
I never
met him.
Do you know Josephine
to me before,
Roberts,
but
a girl?
No.
Do you know Delphine
Roberts?
No.
.
Carlos
No,
Bringuiere?
I seen a picture
How about
Jack
of him.
Martin?
No.
Who did
you more or less,
You didn't
.-
A.
No sir,
and stay
hang around
I didn't
with
A.
She died
Q*
You have now been talking
from
about
1965,
about
Q*
You don't
A.
You have not
with
a year
with?
you say?
many people.
I go home
after
I was incarcerated.
to us and answering
and 20 minutes,
our RW attitude
You are very
Cubans,
hang around
married?
an hour
A.
1963,
my wife.
Are you still
for
with
associate
Q-
in
say in
what
is
questions
so different
now?
kind.
think
we were
changed.
kind
when you first
came in?
45.
Q-
A.
Then why did
you refuse
at first?
Were you just
what
come of it?
would
be indicted,
A.
to answer
I have
did
been
in
your
the
nervous
Or did
questions
and did
not
you think
attorney
tell
the Penitentiary
know
you would
you that?
so long.
MR. ALCOCK:
Are you afraid
.
A.
No, not
of
afraid,
any law enforcement
the
truth
always
or Grand
Jury?
comes out.
JUROR:
Did you feel
that
you would
be indicted
when you walked
in here?
A.
No sir.
Q-
Your
I was nervous
attorney
told
waiting
you not
all
day to come in.
to answer
any questions?
MR. ALCOCK:
Why do you suppose
.
he did
not
lant
you to
answer
any
questions?
A.
I want
to speak
Q*
Can I ask you a few more
them?
I have
recognize
better
give
to my att,orney.
several
a few,
you a list
A.
Want me to read
Q*
Yes,
will
of them here.
several
at pronouncing
snapshots,
you recognize
Perhaps
of them are Spanish.
the names
to read.
them out
you do that?
if
loud?
than
you will
You are
I am so I will
46.
A.
(reads
names)
I don't
..........
know any of these
I recognize
this
names.
name, Arturo
.
.
Who is he?
A.
He was 10 years
he served
6 or 7 years.
oe 1959 for
Q*
Is that
A.
Yes,
in Angola.
I know Arturo.
He was convicted
I know
in
1958
marijuana.
the only
name you recognize,
that
one?
Arturo.
Do you know a Cuban by thename
somewhat
Chinaee,
but
in a broom factory
of Ching,
is really
here
a Cuban.
and lived
in
the
he may look
He worked
St.
Thomas pro-
ject?
A. *
No.
Q-
How about
A.
I know Yera,
B*
Do you know a man by the name of Fabriga?
A.
No.
Q*
Have you ever
A.
No.
?*
Have you heard
car place
A.
No.
Jose LLera
or Yera?
he is a Mexican.
heard
of Alpha
of
on Carondelet
name.
66?
Ereco,
St?
Last
worked
at a foreign
47.
Q . MR. BURNES:
If
the
all
District
Attorney's
of the Assistant
Grand Jury,
were
equivocally,
program
District
for
A.
Yes . . .
Q.
....
anything
I am saying,
.guarantee
answer
that,
IF we said
some questions
that
you said
what
would
Garrison,
and the
to tell
any doubt,
- you understand
Mr.
Attorneys,
in a position
without
be prosecuted
Office,
you unyou would
on the NBC
I am saying
that
...
to you,
and could
you be in a position
about
not
then
what you stated
to
on the NBC
Program?
.-
A.
I would
have
to consult
my lawyer
first.
Q. MR. FOREMAN:
I would
this
like
to point
Grand Jury
of Justice
not
trying
to persecute
the
truth.
Therefore,
about
like
Mr.
trying
you care
Walter
Torres,
- that
you would
B&E talk
Sheridan,
and not
to seek a solution
to comment on that?
to a big
in
all
we want
why a group
you would
not
to a perfect
talk
that
and they'are
anybody,
I am wondering
is
interested
and fairness,
or indict
individuals
NBC, yet
Mr.
is composed of citizens
the'administration
intelligent
but one thing,
of
choose
to talk
stranger
to us, who are
problem.
is
would
48.
A.
I would
like
to see my attorney.
JUROR:
Q*
Let me make one comment.
you said
you like
democratic
it
tion
in this
way of life,
of the democratic
as we ought
citizens,
it
A little
while
Country
ago
and the
the Grand Jury
is one
ways of life
and unless
to by getting
cooperation
would
be difficult
we can funcfrom the
to maintain
this
democratic
way of life.
You have to contribute
%
the democratic
way of life
by contributing
and
cooperating,
doing
or you can make it
so, but
that
this
if
you sincerely
be a little
trying
to do you a thing,
truth.
And we are just
any wrongdoing
as we would
feel
I don't
see how or
cooperative.
We are not
we are trying
tb get
as
concerned
in the District
be with
by not
and honestly
is a good way of life,
why you don't
group
difficult
to
anybody
if
there
Attorney's
else.
to the
is
Office
We are an impartial
of citizens.
MR. BURNES:
Miguel,
the
after
you come back in I am going
same question
the question
District
that
I am going
Attorney's
I asked you a while
to ask you is:
Office,
that
that
to ask you
ago,
if
means the whole
and
the
49.
office,
Jim Garrison
and if
the Grand Jury
you said
and everyone
could
tell
on the NBC Station
prosecuted
for
would
you then
about
it?
it
you that
be in a position
Now, with
anything
- and you would
- and we would
you are permitted
attorney
in the office,
not
guarantee
be
you that
to answer
questions
the Grand Jury's
permission
to go and ask advice
from your
and return.
Then I will
(Exit
Mr.
-
ask you that
question.
Torres)
(Return)
MR. BURNES:
.-.
Q-
Now, Mr.
Torres,
attorney,
haven't
A.
Yes.
Q-
Now I want
not
granted
has the
.
you immunity
Grand Jury.
that
or offered
My question
District
Attorney's
and the Grand Jury,
anything
that
stage
Office
were to say
you would
not
to you in the form of a guarantee,
be done,
nor
is IF I were to say,
were given
could
I have
you immunity,
for
it
you said
at this
prosecuted
were done and if
to your
you?
you to understand
or the whole
to you,
you have gone out and talked
be
to NBC, and IF that
and it
if
that
were done,
50.
and you were satisfied
would
that
your
connections
You would
Q-
having
not
be charged
for
anything
about
but
without
about
asking
I wouldn't
immunity
Now understand,
you would
you were to give
it,
of course
on telefalse
that
laws of perjury.
would
In other
that?
this
be discussed
that?
be given
you say in here has to be the truth,
gentlemen,
should
consider
- I
made the statement
to the regular
you understand
it
having
when asked about
be subject
I think,
you made.
my attorney
you would
made a statement?
testimony
Q-
that
or to NBC, but if
vision,
Yes.
Office,
to him.
for
A.
with
questions
Attorney's
to answer any questions
Xf you were assured
words,
to answer
the District
to consult
be able
talking
be done,
and the statements
have
wouldn't
.
could
you then be in a position
you made to NBC about
A.
it
with
on this
I think
do it
is a new juncture
Mr.
basis.
Garrison
before
How is your
he has expressed
without
and I think
consulting
we
feeling
willingness,
Mr.
Garrison.
51.
Q-
NOW I don't
time.
time
have any further
Now, Miguel,
I have not
hasn't?
that,
at this
that
you immunity.
before
that
you immunity
And does your
very
However,
the Grand Jury
at this
and that
attorney
the
understand
moment we have not
granted
if
and speak
you appear
we can give
here
you immunity
for
statements
you made, but when you tell
the Grand
under
something
you will
oath
prosecuted
for
attorney
A.
at this
do you understand
granted
Grand Jury
questions
and you lie,
perjury,
then
you understand
understands
that?
Is that
that?
the
Jury
be
And your
correct?
Yes.
MR. BURNES:
.-
The last
thing
understand
morning
first
that
part
was to tell
you are either
anything
crime,
an oath
the
the proceedings
means exactly
in this
understand?
A.
Yes.
Q*
That
is
all.
Thank
you very
second
Grand Jury
or charged,
much.
this
had two parts:
and the
you can't
happened
you know and
came in here
that
truth
of this
that:
indicted
that
that
when you first
you were given
to keep
that
is
I want to be sure
tell
the
part
secret,
was
and
anyone
unless
or a suspect
of a
room.
Do you
.
52.
(Second
appearance
of MIGUEL TOFUXES before
August
MIGUEL TOKKES,
31,
1967
the
Grand
Jury)
(Thursday)
after
being duly sworn by the
the Orleans
Parish
Grand Jury,
and answered as follows:
Foreman of
was questioned
MR. ALCOCK:
-Q-
Please
state
A.
Miguel
Torres
Q*
Are you represented
A.
Yes,
Mr.
your
Burton
A.
he outside?
I
Yes.
.
Q*
Did you have
name for
I
the record?
by an attorney?
Klein.
Is
coming
A.
Yes.
Q-
Now Mr.
last
for
time
with
him
before
in here?
Burnes
week
had put
that
we might
any statement
and let
me advise
advised
your
immunity.
Louisiana
let
to confer
me also
you say that
related
tends
you full
you at this
counsel,
warn
give
to you
immunity
you made on National
The only
is
the possibility
that
time,
and I have
we cannot
immunity
in
to public
you at this
Television
the
give
State
bribery.
time
to incriminate
that
you
of
Now,
anything
you or incri-
53.
minates
you in
a tight
to refuse
A.
Yes.
Q-
Additionally,
the
commission
to answer.
if
A.
.-* Q.
And as Mr.
you do not
know
understand
that?
Yes.
Q=
Now,
did
this
year?
I refuse
tend
false
with
that?
to
explained
that
is
true
you appear
to answer
of
Office
incriminate
might
1967 about
true
I refuse
you know
week,
or false,
its
to be false,
statement
is
that
not
but
about
perjury.
television
on the grounds
You
in June
the
that
answer
of
might
me.
Let me ask one more
June
to you last
on National
question.
you made on national
A.
are
you can be charged
you make an unqualified
A.
Q*
Burnes
something
something
A.
and they
that?
Yes.
necessarily
.
knowingly,
You understand
you have
Do you understand
you make statements
and you make them
perjury.
of any crime
Were the
television
certain
over
members
statements
that
an NBC program
in
of the
District
Attorney's
or false?
to answer
incriminate
the
me.
question
on the
grounds
that
it
54.
Q*
I would
take
(Members
and Mr.
matter
like
into
to get these
questions
down to
Court.
of the
Grand Jury,
Torres
Assistant
went into
Judge
under
advisement).
was taken
.
Bagert's
District
Court,
Attorneys
where
.
the
CERTIFICATE
I certify
that
and correct
before
the
of August,
the preceding
copy
Orleans
1967,
of the
Parish
transcript
testimony
given,
GFand Jury,
and reduced
is
a true
under
on the
to typewriting
oath,
23rd
by me.
& 3lst